electrosoft

See if you can push that to ~94fps with the patch. Every bit helps and 77fps is not great. Playing wow at even 80fps vs 132fps+ is very noticeable in smoothness and movement. A 4090 + patch would probably push your setup to 130+ I was testing the 7900xtx and 13900ks with WoW hooked up to my old BenQ 32" 60hz (but G-sync / AMD Free sync compatible) display and it was rough. That 60fps cap was torture to the eyes and soul. Having played for so long at basically display cap for the most part (144hz) for the last 10 months since I picked up this 4090 or so across two displays there is no going back. Mind you, I gamed for almost two years on that BenQ and thought it was righteous compared to it replacing my 8 year old HP 30" ZR30W 60hz basic display. Even my wife has been using a Samsung G9 144hz 32" QHD display for WoW paired with my old Strix 3080 and when the display went wonky I swapped back in the BenQ for her and within a few minutes she was like, "something is wrong." I asked what and she said it's moving funny and feels "disjointed" and off. I say down and played for a few minutes and had to sadly inform her she was stuck with low fps gaming for a week until her replacement display showed up. 😂 How does Ark Survival perform with FG and DLSS on?

I'm sure AMD exclusivity included some official and unofficial conditions for the launch window and free game bundle with their GPUs and CPUs. Officially optimized for AMD. Unofficially? Well...... 🤣 Crazy performance gains at NATIVE no upscaling on either side. 13900k/14900k + 4090 is clearly going to be the optimal combo for this game now. Nvidia went from being behind 8% to jumping ahead 23% with the 4090 over the 7900xtx which is more in line with real world expected results (if not even higher). I'm glad I held off playing till patches galore. @tps3443 you'll need to get back in there with your KPE 3090 and see how much better it is now with the update.

4090's are drying up like crazy everywhere in the US: Newegg is completely sold out of "shipped and sold by Newegg" 4090s even with the substantial price hikes..... Best Buy is still 100% out of stock My closest local Microcenter is now sold out (St Davids) Second closest Parkville MC has 8 total left in stock (5 Suprim, 3 Asus AIO) Third Closest Brooklyn, NY is now completely sold out Lowest priced 4090 on Amazon is >$2000 with three models in stock (TUF $2040, Windforce $2100, White Asus Strix $2850) and all third party sellers at this point Still plenty of 7900xtx's or 4080's @Papusan EVERYWHERE for you to add to your collection! 🤣

APO explained / theorized (E cores doing much more work, isolating L2/3 cache workloads, less ring work).... And Intel's official response to supporting 12th and 13th gen: "Intel has no plans to support prior generation products with Application Optimization" What an absolute garbage response but seeing as it only supports a few games and at 4k the results are nearly a wash it's ok but still what a craptastic Nvidia approach to something that is software based not being implemented on previous generations especially 13th which is basically identical. Plus their response to additional titles/selections adding APO support: "Intel will continue to evaluate additional applications and games for support on an ongoing basis, this will include select current and future triple A game titles" In other words, you're at the mercy of Intel and what titles they optimize for APO support. Like @Talon said, d*ck move. You are also left to wonder why these titles were selected (probably showcased it in the best light) and how many titles bring nothing to the table as we have seen can happen with AMD's X3D from time to time.

Unlike EVGA, MSI has the size to double down on a true enthusiast board and GPU while also continuing to cater to other segments of the market with the glitz, RGB and aesthetic approach. If Vince and his team (or whoever he adds/subtracts) gets in there and focuses on a KPE 4090/5090 GPU and a KPE Z790/Z890 Unify level product targeting enthusiasts and overclockers and that's it, I'm all in for that. While it looks like MSI has retreated from the AMD GPU market (without saying anything), their AM5 motherboard offerings are massive with 15 different models from A620 (1), B650 (9), X670 (1) and X670e (4) so they may be becoming Nvidia exclusive but still offering both Intel and AMD motherboards. Is there a chance you're bouncing up against a motherboard/CPU limitation yet?

You might be on to something here @Rage Set Doing a quick check: I noticed MSI has either severely slowed or halted production of their MSI 7000 series cards. On Newegg, only MSI card available is the 7600. On Best Buy only MSI card available is again the 7600 with a few clearance 6000 series models On Microcenter the only consistently available card again is yep, the 7600 with sporadic offerings depending on store. The reference model disappeared quite some time ago and recently you can't find the MSI 7900xtx Gaming Trio anywhere. I just happen to have found an open box Amazon Warehouse model. I tend to think Nvidia sales are more plentiful than AMD sales and margins are thin on both sides but I can see them doing what you said and going all in with Nvidia only on the GPU side and the ultimate abandonment would be going exclusively Intel for CPUs too. We also know that when EVGA waded into the AMD waters with their X570 MB, they encountered equal if not worse control issues than Nvidia. I'm sure it hasn't been a picnic for MSI. It is probably easier to just focus on Intel and Nvidia and kick AMD to the curb. I also noticed prices for MSI 7900xtx Gaming Trio cards have shot through the roof with the few still at various MC back up to $1125, they were ~$1200 on Newegg before the last sold out and on Amazon they went from $979 to $1099 to $1199 and now $1395 only from third party sellers with the seller list having shrunk from ~8-10 down to 2. As for Nvidia 4090 stock: Only in stock cards at Newegg. Suprim up $150. TUF up $300....along with a sudden increase in S&H which is a classic NE profiteering mechanism. New delivered cost for my neck of the woods (We're officially over $2k): But they're selling as both existing 4090's are in the top selling chart for NE: Best Buy still completely sold out.

Ruh roh? 14900KS a reality? https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-core-i9-14900ks-6-2-ghz-processor-spotted-in-first-prebuilt-systems-with-ddr4-memory

My 7800X3D totally outclassed (highs and lows) my 12900k + tuned B-die 4100 DDR4 for WoW and Fallout 76. I'll be curious to see how the 13900ks + tuned 8000 DDR5 performs as I'll end up swapping my 4090 and 7900xtx back and forth between both systems to really get a good set of data to see. He talks about the "AMD Dip" but it isn't the same "dip" he was talking about with AM4 where frame rates would tank. This is a ~10% drop in 1% and .01% vs Intel without that brutal chunk AM4 gave which was painful. I did experience the "dip" on AM4 in WoW in Raids (most CPU intensive part of WoW with all that player data) with my 5800X and it was brutal when it would hit. I have never experienced that dip with AM5 with countless hours logged in WoW and FO76. I also think he is not so subtly pushing his services to sell high end Apex Encore + DDR5 8000 tuned + 14900k combos to "CODbros" which is a $1000 fee + parts. He also gets to conveniently fish for the best gear as it crosses his path. I fully expect him to pop up with a good sample 14900k soon as one hits while he builds these out. With that being said, I still enjoy his videos. 🙂

Just finished up some memory testing on the Strix Z790i. I think this board has potential but I'll need to dial in the CPU at 8000 to see how it compared to the MSI then switch back to the MSI and rerun all these tests but in the end it is going to be 6 of 1...half a dozen of the other methinks. I did single sticks and then dual sticks. Conclusion: Slot A taps out at 8800 for posting Slot B taps out at 8600 for posting G.Skill sticks: Stick A was able to post up to 8800 in slot A Stick A was able to post up to 8600 in slot B Stick B was able to post up to 8400 in slot A and B Both sticks posted at 8400 (MSI only posted at 8200) A+B = only pass TM5 at 7600 B+A = able to pass TM5 at 8000 While testing at 8000, something is producing coil whine that isn't there on the MSI. I still need to switch to Gear 4 to take the CPU out of the equation just as a check if I can post higher.

Nice! I stopped at SA 1.35 and switched to G4 when it wasn't posting at all at 8400 on the MSI Z790i I pushed CPU_VDDQ (basically IVR TX) to 1.45, VDDQ and VDD (I let MSI keep them in sync) to 1.55 and a no go. Same on the Asus Strix z790i except topping out at 7600 meant I didn't need to push SA past 1.2. I'll be curious to test each slot individually today on the Strix Z790i today.

You have to have buyers to dry up the pre-existing stock. Looks like no one is buying in your area.

Best Buy is completely sold out of 4090s.... All three of my local(ish) Microcenters only have Gigabyte for $1700 or Asus 4090 ROG liquid for $2150-2200. Holidays + 4090 shortage = major price hikes on new and used cards. Like @Papusan said though, PLENTY of AD103 4080's for you to slurp up.....

4090's drying up and prices creeping up. MSI 4090 Liquid X Suprim is now $1900 shipped and sold by Newegg and it's the only 4090 in stock from them atm. Jay exploring pricing across numerous places sometimes with tin hat on. 🤣

901 wouldn't do 7200+. One of the reasons I upgraded to 1501. The thing is this board isn't cheap and launched at $450. For an ITX board that is insane. I picked up an open box for $286. I definitely kept the MSI Z790i. I'll be switching back after I play around with the Strix for a few more days and back it goes. I'll test each individual slot along with a manual dial in of the CPU for fun. Why would I think you were competing? 🙂 Even if you were, that is kinda the name of the game here even if not overtly. 🤣 I love it when we throw up good scores and hardware. It fuels the hardware juices and revs the engines. Going into this, we know it isn't my CPU or RAM since they did 8200 on the MSI Z790i so we know it is the board either by design, silicon lottery or both. On the MSI, even setting G4, it topped out at 8200 so there we know it is my board and/or sticks in that scenario. I do plan on testing each slot with each stick individually but in Asus's defense, they only rate the board at 7600+ so with the newest BIOS update it did match that. It is not a board worth pursuing as my goal was 8000 and when I have a better overall performer with the MSI Z790i Edge rated at 8000+ and performing better both CPU and memory wise. I picked up the 8000 sticks because they were a great price. No way I'm dropping major coin on another set on a hope a prayer on a board that doesn't match my MSI. The odd riser stand off, the break out hub and lack of debug light irks me too. 🙂 Doing some googling and reading reviews, I'm not alone on these limitations for those looking to pursue 8000+ with this board. 7200-7600 seems to be the max but again Asus only promised 7600+. It might require board fishing, memory fishing or both but what I DO know is in the here and now the MSI is outperforming the Asus on both fronts (CPU and mem) with what I have. 🙂 Well when you find binned hardware you hold onto it tightly! He would definitely struggle more as you can only do so much with hardware limitations. We all hit walls. And yeah, ram is in a weird place atm. I'm sure a year or two from now we'll look back at 8000+ like we did 3200+ on DDR4.

Installed the Strix Z790I and, well, it's trash for memory. Board tops out at 7600 while the MSI Z790I topped out at 8200. Anything above 7600 errors out in TM5 within 10 seconds. It has no MC check either nor a debug light on what was a $450 ITX board at launch. It is kicking up the AIO fans much more than the MSI board. CB23 same temps (~72) but scored 1500 lower. I'll sort it out and dial in the voltage for the CPU but either way this one is definitely heading back to Amazon. Running the newest 1501 BIOS (originally had 901 from March):

Igor binned a slew of 14900 chips: https://www.igorslab.de/en/r-batches-13900kss-and-imc-regressions-intel-core-14th-gen-binning-results-from-almost-600-cpus/2/ Looks like 14900k trumps 14900kf giving even more air to no 14900KS which I stated before. This is the last gasp for basically ADL+++ same as why we never saw a 10900KS but as always they may surprise us. 🙂 14900 vs 13900ks for 6ghz VID. Scary that some 14900's are below the 13900ks even late production grabs and smaller sample of 13900ks Igor was able to get (assume any decent 13900ks grade chip has been funneled to 14900k chips for a bit): And finally 13900k vs 13900ks vs 14900k/f. Buying a new 13900k is most likely a fool's errand at this point. Statistically speaking, if you can't get a binned chip, pick up a 14900k for the best chance at a really good chip but looking at these numbers we're seeing why so many sub SP100 chips are dropping everywhere.

Looks like 8200 is the end of the road for my MSI Z790I Edge ITX 2 dimmer. Even dropping back to G4 to remove the CPU from the equation it won't hit >8200 even with 1.55 super loose timings on the sticks but I'll double check everything when I swap in the Strix Z790I two dimmer for comparison.

I'm looking forward to pics of the PCB and seeing where you take it under water. In the realm of A770s, the Asrock to me is the best overall "classic" version. I agree not picking up another Nvidia lower tier product that, while solid performers, do not scale in tandem price:performance wise with their previous iterations. You can't reward bad behavior.

Yeah, I am finding Adrenaline bloated and boggy. Performance is still not there even in Fallout 76. I'm going to do my due diligence and still swap this MSI 7900xtx into my main rig and give it a clean install and swap my Suprim in with the 13900ks and see who reigns supreme since my last comparison was the 7800X3D vs my 12900k on DDR4. Still have to use RIVA to cap fps as Adrenaline capping function still doesn't work. Don't think I'm going to score a better sample of a 7900xtx. Very low coil whine, boosts to 2835, runs cool. I suspect the person that returned it switched to Nvidia (or switched back 🤣).

LOL, that's my 4090 vs my 4090. OC 1.1v Stock vBIOS 3120mhz vs UV Stock vBIOS .950 2865mhz They're basically equal (you can see +3fps on the 1% for the 3120) because my display is capped at 143fps because it is a 144hz display and both are routinely bouncing off that cap. If I drop the cap and let them fly you'll see the OC put a little distance between them. I haven't put up my 7900xtx results yet, but trust me the 4090 destroys it in WoW just as bad if not worse than back in January when I pitted my XFX 7900xtx vs my Suprim.

I think the problem (if you want to call it that 😁) is I cap my frames at 143 (I have a 144hz display) so they are bouncing off of that being real close with an average of 130fps. If I uncap and let it run wild, you will see a bigger difference between 2865 and 3120. No memory OC on either for this test. I'm finishing up some 7900xtx data collection and, well.....it still sucks even 10 months removed for WoW. Same poor RT performance and same "just ok" RT off performance with the same settings. It still stutters with RT on too. For WoW, it is not the card to buy with a comparable Nvidia offering out there. I'd even recommend a 4070ti or 4080 over the 7900xtx for a hardcore WoW player.

4090 vs 7900xtx round 2 along with UV vs OC on the 4090 (stock vBIOS) World of Warcraft out in Ardenweald (Hardest hitting zone still as it pretty much takes the CPU out of the equation) 4k Ultra RT Max. My fps is capped at 143fps. .950 UV vs 1.1 OC (FPS difference = ~0-3fps avg and 1%) .950 UV @ 2865mhz 1.1 OC @ 3120mhz Major difference is with UV my room doesn't turn into a furnace as quickly. 🙂

That is beautiful bro, nice! I'm past the laptop stage now after returning my G18 (twice!). I've been researching and dabbling in ITX land casually the last 4 months or so. Nice pics on top of it too.

Going into detail about his switch back. I run a 7800X3D so I haven't had to deal with any CCD issues. I'm not sure why he had such bad luck with memory. It could have been his Asus board, but he has been team AMD since 10th gen Intel so for him to come back to Intel means he had hit a wall but hey at least he tried for 10 months.

This is exactly my approach and thought process with RAM and CPU stability these days. Many moons ago, I use to pound my hardware with P95 or similar along with memory stress tests for 24hrs creating a scenario I would never encounter in real life. Now, I do baseline stability and actually use the hardware and adjust as needed if something rears its ugly head. If I'm benchmarking...well.....all bets are off in that moment as I'm going to push it hard as possible up to and including immediate shut downs and BSODs. 🙂 Sugi's posts are some of my favorites in the OCN forums. Access to a good group of hardware and users and he posts regularly with, "what could have been" type posts for others to at least push as hard as possible to see. I'm not sure he even runs a chiller. You see Jufus called them out changing their marketing and push going for the "ROG Strix" type packaging to appeal to gamers. I don't blame Asus for trying to maximize profits and sales but it is disheartening that they couldn't leave even the one, true enthusiast board alone.