electrosoft

That's promising all on its own it has bumped up your SA voltage capability. In unison with the BIOS itself, hopefully it takes care of all of it. I look forward to seeing how a partially helped chip with @Prema's work faires with the full BIOS and also tested in the Encore to give us three test scenarios. A bit higher than I expected actually but it makes sense considering many VIDs on some of these chips are hitting 1.523v which is lower than the 1.5v cap. I think Intel did the best they could do with this and it not only caps out at 1.55v (I was thinking 1.45v), but allows OCers to go back to extremes if needed. This cap limit also makes total sense as it also lets turd chips continue to sell as the 1.523v max VID on some of them still fits comfortably under that limit. No way Intel is tossing 1.523v max vid chips as that seems to be a large swath of 14900KS chips.

I mean.... Uh..... I don't know what to say....

Totally Agree! As I keep testing and using this SP109 on an AIO I am just blown away at the fact I can do 59x/45x/50x on an AIO....Ayyyy Eyeeeee Ohhhhh!!! at 8200. That I can dial it in at full auto on an AIO and have it hitting 6.2 and down and temps are fantastic relatively speaking and vcore under load rocks. My SP115 13900KS couldn't get anywhere near this and realistically topped out at 57x/44x/48x 8000 before heat and voltage took over. 8200 was flaky on it but this could have also been the G.skill sticks. I always wondered if it was maybe the motherboard, but @Mr. Fox hitting 8400 and 8600 on the same board puts that to rest. as for the SP109 14900KS, 8200 is rock solid TM5 90 min run on this one as is 8400 even with the SA Bug but I prefer 8200 with tighter timings with temps being about the same between both. Just like you, I won't pop the tops and keep them stock. I'm going to run 0x129 MC for safety and if, according to @Talon, our OCs aren't really affected, if this wipes out the SA Bug that is icing on the cake. The major icing on top that icing is having a 0.969 V/F point at 4300mhz just completes the near perfection of this chip for potential future NH55. I was actually fishing/looking/asking for V/F curves from sellers with decent silicon to see if they had a good 4300 point. If I'm going to buy binned silicon, why not try to check all the boxes, right? I was really interested in your R batch then ya went and popped the damn top. 😞 It had the mythical 0.969 point I wanted at 4300. For example, I would turn down your chip if offered because of the poor 4300 point. I'm not sure what was your 5600/5900 points. I was contemplating an SP112, but it's 4300 (0.984), 5600 (1.319) and 5900 (1.393) points were all higher than my SP109. Same as when I saw an SP111, poor 4300, slightly better 5600, equal 5900. I previously turned down an SP108 for $800 because the 4300 point was poor and in the end the SP109 I ended up with had superior points across all three. This one? $630 shipped total after all was said and done and it satisfies ALL my criteria both high and low. All I knew was it was an SP109 at a killer price and pulled the trigger. I didn't know I was going to get great V/F points across my main three criteria (especially 43x and 56x which are most important to me) and crazy good under load voltages for AIO use un-delidded. Killer chip. He did say something was wrong with the power reading for the 9700x as it read 88w across everything incorrectly which was strange but that really isn't the point as the 14700k wasn't drawing a metric ton of power either. With that being said, the logical gaming answer was and continues to be the 7800X3D. In their quest to beat Intel , AMD....well they AMD'd themselves with their own CPU. 🫢 I still have this suspicion that 15th gen is going to come out on top again.....hope I'm right. Lots of hype but I still think the key take away here is basically the same power, smaller node, small uplift in IPC at much lower power consumption. The lower power consumption is a big deal going forward on many levels especially APUs and mobile platforms. If you weren't compelled to upgrade from your AM4 platform to 7000 series, so far 9000 isn't doing it either. 😞 I did not know that Gigabyte gave you MSI like levels of control in their BIOS. I might have to add them to my "maybe" list. You are awesome @Prema, thanks! This will make it easy for me to deploy and test on my two 13th gen laptops and Asrock board if I want to test it independently. You rock bro! Another case of 0x129 fixing the SA Bug on Asus Encore....

Promising start! I'll have to wait for Asrock to release an updated BIOS in the next week or so before giving it a whirl. I've logged so much data at 5.6-5.9 profiles on the 14900KS that it will be nice to compare the profiles. Agreed. With my setup and end game goals, the SA Bug is not an issue. I ended up doing a full TM5 run at 8400 but the timings and voltage settings are better at 8200 especially temps atm. This. Would be a nice bonus for my 14900KS, but honestly the chip is firing on all cylinders for my needs which is why I kept it versus returning it (plus the seller was super honest and nice). More proof the MC update has resolved the SA Bug at least on Asus boards:

Hmmmm, this will be a fun test for the new MC and if the SA Bug goes away (or is board specific): @Mr. Fox Something you could test (as will I) with your known SA Bugged R batch.

Intel says Raptor Lake microcode update will not affect overclocking and performance Also Intel:

Or looking at it another way, the lesser silicon is always trickled down to lesser chips/designs and this is no different (see: 7950X3D X3D CCD vs 7800X3D). They revamp the 9700x to give equal or slightly better performance than its predecessor at a much lower power envelope and runs cooler overall. That's a win:win. The trade off is performance is not greatly increased. These new designs are going to ROCK for SFF and laptops. Enthusiasts also have the option to open up the power limits, manually OC if they want even or go with the new curve optimizer software and take it to the limit (one more time.....). But 11th, 13th and 14th has shown us when power draw can get silly. We saw what happen to Intel with 13th and 14th gen when left unchecked power consumption wise. Sanity HAS to kick in at some point and there are limits to too much power draw outside of overclocking. I saw this having no problems pulling 350-390w when merited, but still.... 🙂 Don't you love the competition? 🙂 But yeah, I am REAL curious to see what Intel is bringing to the table with Arrow Lake. Intel could basically wipe the slate clean real quick with the 13th/14th debacle by introducing absolutely killer new chips that retake the lead in sweeping fashion like they did with 12th gen that left AM4 along with the 5800X3D in the rear view mirror (when properly tuned of course).

What is it with Jay, AMD and getting ram to run at 6000? I've used 4 different AM5 boards, probably at least 7 different DDR5 kits and have never failed to stabilize 6000 on a 7950x, 7950x3d, 7600x, 7800x3d. Absolutely. Just finished watching De8auers and overclockers are going to love dropping all the limits and opening up this chip with good cooling and a potential delid. AMD was truthful when they said OC'ers will like it. Waiting to see how much cooling scales with it as unlocked it was bouncing off the 90c limit. Main benefits are a fab shrink so far and some IPC uplift but overall more evolutionary than revolutionary and then some. The downsize is even unlocked, the 7800X3D still trashes it overall with all systems running 6000 memory. 1-4fps increase with OC/limits removed on the 9700x vs 7700x. My final verdict? Same as before, I'll be waiting for the X3D variants even mores so now. This, again, lets me wait to see what Intel brings to the table while I continue to play with this 14900KS and my ~16 months in action AM5 (not counting a down 1.5 month when my MB went bye bye) system still holding it down. Overclocked/unlimited 9700x vs stock 9700x on an Asus board with just a 360mm AIO. De8uaer notes future video to really overclock it with a delid and better cooling to see how it stacks up. I'm also looking forward to see if there are improvements in the IMC/realization at higher frequencies outside of memory benchmarks. Unlike Intel, AMD actually did a small node shrink. 6th->10th, Intel was basically 14nm++++++++ but yeah, overall much ado about nothing at this point for me but I await the X3D variants. 🙂

I expect Intel to still ask questions like before and idiots to answer them in good faith and get shanked. It is the Intel way. I'm curious to see what the MC update brings. Lightning supports multiple revisions to run, so if it is garbage or too locked down I'll just downgrade. Even the idea of locked down desktops on the level of laptops across the board tightens my jaw in the wrong way. I just expect this update to lock down the vrout max to ~1.45v or maybe 1.4v at the max. If Intel does want to return to the days of pricey "Extreme Editions" for OCers and everything else being locked down for "safety" , I would howl and complain yet knowing full well I would also be picking one up I mean a 14900KS AND a 4090? I know that credit card has got to be smokin!! 😁 I was just looking around at the pile of tech I've accumulated (14900KS, 7950X3D, 7800XTX, 4090, etc...) and 4 desktops now in the house along with 5-6 laptops (even after the sell off) and I need to slow down too and offload some of this and take a pause* *does not include 5090 🤣

Intel is not only extended its warranty to 5 years but also to OEM/Tray CPUs: Important part is if you can't get satisfaction with your OEM/Tray seller, reach out to Intel directly now. That's huge for some of us who have purchased tray CPUs. https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-to-extend-warranty-for-oem-tray-13-14th-gen-core-raptor-lake-cpus

I just finished watching this. It appears Wendell and Falcon NW helped with the data and presentation. Watching the entire thing and looking at the fixes in place now, there are still problems: The newest BIOS (along with MC 0X125) set Intel baseline prefs (PL1/PL2=253w, ICC=307A) but still let chips overheat and single cores fly to the moon. It is false comfort. What they also should have done was also auto set very conservative LLC levels to stop any overshoot as auto then steps in and gets slap happy. Personal testing using the "default" settings but adjusting LLC/AC_LL/DC_LL in tandem immediately brought all that overheating nonsense to a a stop and even allowed single core boosting to 6.2 to stay sub 1.4v at all times testing in CB23. I can not monitor the transients properly without an Oscilloscope nor do I want to go to BZ levels of data collection, so for now I'll stick to manual fixed voltage till the next bios update/mc patch and like I said before I have four profiles pretty much dialed in at 56x-59x / 45x / Auto ring (IE 4.5ghz - 5ghz). When the bios update drops, I'll test it versus 125. This was shown on using the newest BIOS releases on the Z690 Strix and Z790i Lightning. Using defaults right out of the box and updated had my 14900KS shooting to 363w which in and unto itself isn't "bad" but what it also had it doing was overheating like crazy and asking (and getting) crazy amounts of voltage. Like you say, taking control of vcore is king. Taking control of your voltage either via vrout max is the easiest way if your MB supports it (gigabyte and asus). Leave everything at auto and cap overall requested voltage regardless of settings/scenario/programs. This as "set and forget" easy as it gets. Actually get in there and test/explore all types of settings and properly get to know your BIOS to extract maximum performance safely.

That will still get the job done for him and he should be quite content. 🙂 OLED really is a game changer in regards to display quality. It makes switching back and forth with IPS/VA panels quite noticeable.

Yup! If it is either of these two I own, he is good to go! I actually really like these laptops for everyday portability and tasks. I use the Ultra 9 and gave the Ultra 7 (well, she kinda declared it hers and that was that) to my wife. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-vivobook-pro-15-oled-laptop-intel-core-ultra-9-with-24gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3050-2tb-ssd-earl-gray/6568758.p?skuId=6568758&extStoreId=692&utm_source=feed&ref=212&loc=21470219954&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjeT_ufjchwMV8TAIBR3kzBvZEAQYASABEgLqU_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds or https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-vivobook-pro-15-oled-laptop-intel-core-ultra-7-with-16gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3050-1tb-ssd-earl-gray/6568760.p?skuId=6568760

Yeah, some people can play 10-12 hours a day. I love it, but I'm good for 3hrs at most and that is only on some days. My wife is more hardcore than I am now and plays 4-6hrs a day 3 days a week and 2-3hrs the other days. This last Xpac she is officially ahead of me progression wise lol. 3050 1080p laptop can handle WoW with details turned down quite nicely. I have two laptops sent to me by Asus that are 3050 laptops. One has an Ultra 7 and the other an Ultra 9 but they are identical besides the CPUs (I should do a quick write up showing Ultra 7 vs 9 with everything else being equal in them). Besides running very quiet, they handle WoW great on detail level 4-5 (1-10). They both have OLED displays and look really good.

I had a golden sample LTX 10900k and it was good but not as good as the Silicon Lottery SP101 10900k I picked up used. That one was a monster. It performed better still lidded than the delidded other ones. It was crazy good. I did a comparison when binning it along with a few other trash sample and 1x "binned" from ZtecPC 10900k's here:

14900KS 5.9 all core testing, 8200 CL36 3060ti (only card that fits atm). In the SFF, it will be either 5.7 or 5.8 all core but i'm leaning towards 5.7 as 200mhz isn't going to make or break this build but does add a disproportionate amount of power draw and increased heat for minimal gains. Crazy how on all my Intel BGA laptops this will spike to 100c on both 13th gen and Ultra 7/9 (I have them all) and even on my NH55 w/ the 12900k dialed in as much as possible it will still hit the 80's at much lower frequencies but desktop on AIO? 5.9 no problem once tuned.....this 14900ks is going to rock in the SFF. Modern laptop heatsinks are bleh as always. Doing 1080p testing for the SFF and either the 18" or 23" display I'll be taking with it. This is at low settings to show you how WoW and cities just go to town on CPUs. Don't let the fps fool ya. Once I switch it to ultra settings and turn RT on, fps plummet and the lows get real nasty (36ish) on the 3060ti. I'm tempted to give a 4070 Super a whirl. I feel like that would be the sweet spot but I want to test the 7900xtx and 4090 first to kind of gauge. Total system draw according to kill o watt meter is ~336w while playing. This is why we call Valdrakken the CPU slayer with all the player data. Out in the open world, 500+ fps GPU Utilization almost always 91-99%. As soon as you come into "hubs" in WoW where calculations shift decidedly to the CPU, fps tank and GPU load plummets to sub 60%. Valdrakken: "Not" Valdrakken:

Agreed, as soon as this fiasco popped off I immediately had visions of lockdowns like laptop BIOSes coming next for desktops and I definitely do not want that. If Intel (and AMD to a degree) want to maybe dial down the e-peen contest a tad and not be so aggressive in their boosting algorithms, I'm absolutely fine with that as that would just mean more headroom for us to dial in at our own discretion. To me, this works the best if Intel and AMD want to be a bit more conservative out of the box but leave MB/BIOS options to the discretion of MB makers. If Intel and AMD decide overclocking is no longer a worthy endeavor and the boost you get is the boost you get and recommend/enforce severe non-K like chips, that would be a sad, sad day. In the end, Intel's turbo/boost algorithms and vid requests on 13th and 14th gen were kerfuffled resulting in ridiculous voltage that fit under en envelope of ~2 cores being able to boost to 6.2 and pulling insane amounts of voltage trashing the cores. Don't punish enthusiasts for your mistakes. It is good and especially at that price point. Yeah I'm going to be held back because of SA limitations (1.18 max solid, 1.19 benching quasi solid, 1.20 insta lock up) and SFF considerations and heat. 1.36 SA is a pipe dream for me. 🙂 Luckily, the chip is firing on all cylinders everywhere else that I need it. 8000 was the goal. 8200 is icing on the cake for this build. 🙂

I'm using the Lian Li Galahad II Trinity Performance 360 right now in my test rig to replace my old faithful EVGA CLC 360 since getting another Socket 1700 mounting bracket would be $35-40 so I just decided to grab what has been rated the best for awhile now in AIOs. While I acknowledge I am using good silicon with this SP109 14900KS, it is handling everything I throw at it up to 5.9 all core. It is pretty beastly and built like a tank. I've never used an AIO with a mounting block so thick and dense before. It also has a very high flow rate if you desire (which I do, so I have the pump running full tilt). You can use Lian Li's software for more exacting controls via USB connection, but it also lets you hook it straight to the MB for direct control which is how i'm controlling it on auto. It is a lot noisier under load than my Arctic Cooler Liquid Freezer II 420 in my main rig so if noise isn't your jam, you might want to look elsewhere or just replace the fans. It is also dirt cheap atm on Amazon for $110 (free shipping if Prime member). All models shipping now are late revision V2 so the pump issues are a thing of the past (in theory). Currently in my test case....

Monstrous value here used but like new sold and shipped from Asrock 6950XT for $420 via Amazon Glad to see Asrock and Amazon worked out their differences as their store is nearly fully stocked with their products. 🙂

SP109 14900KS + TG 8200 + Asrock Z790i update: ------------------------------------------------------------------ So I've been testing UE5 shader compiles with Fortnite (clear cache, relaunch, repeat) with the 14900KS and whew, watching this suck down 300w+ and all cores ablaze on launch for a bit is something I've never seen in a game before but I never played some of the major heavy hitters like this before either. I don't remember CP2077 doing this (but that was on my 12900k). My 7900XTX will not fit in my test case since the 360mm AIO is mounted to the front so I slapped in my 3060ti from my backup 12400 system for testing. When I switch over to the Nucleus 240mm for phase 2 testing, I'll slap in the 7900XTX and swap back and forth with the 4090. I think I just need to pick up an open bench and keep it for testing hardware. With modern hardware, this Corsair 540 is showing its volume age. I haven't really used the Epic Game store and it is very unpolished with issues compared to Steam. Not a fan. As for the Asrock Z790i Lightning, I like it, but I do have some pet peeves with it and little bugs that are annoying. --- #1. The CMOS battery is glued to the side of the rear I/O with a 2 position connector wire that plugs in that is just screaming it will break eventually as everything you have to yank the wire to do a hard reset. #2. There is no IA VROUT MAX control like on Asus and Gigabyte. #3. Ring will cap at 4.5ghz when selecting all core no matter what. You have to go in and select per core and set your all core that way for it to boost to 5ghz #4. Whenever you change your fixed Vcore, it will automatically switch back to LLC1 --- Right now, I have 5 profiles setup for testing/use 56x 45x Auto Ring 8200 Fixed 1.28 57x 45x Auto Ring 8200 Fixed 1.33 58x 45x Auto Ring 8200 Fixed 1.37 59x 45x Auto Ring 8200 (work in progress) But right now looking like 1.41 atm Auto freq w/ Enforced Intel limits with adjusted AC_LL/DC_LL and LL/Vcomp set to min 8200 Until the Intel MC update, I'm sticking with my fixed Vcore profiles. After we find out their official cap, I'll start dialing in the Auto freq profile to fully test 6.2 boosting and various games for data collection. I know I boost only to 1.392v max 6.2 auto CB23 but it isn't worth taking a chance just to be safe till then also knowing I prefer fixed overall anyhow. All are working on AIO for my use cases. All do not thermal throttle and range anywhere from ~68-70c (5.6x fixed along with Enforced) up to ~87c (5.9 fixed) with CB23 loop testing. I still need to test 8400. Trying to boot 8800 = hard lock up requiring a physical power reset which means it is the SA Bug kicking in. 8600 boots but as soon as I run TM5, SA Bug lock up. This shows the limitations (if you can call them that for my meager setup) but also shows really good potential for the TG sticks and this Asrock Lightning Z790i board. I'd love to test a known, good chip up to 8800+ just to see. Oh, and since I was testing shader compiles in Fortnight, I decided to try and play (I've never played before) and my nephew (who is a die hard player along with COD) laughed so hard at me failing over and over again in Battle Royale as I was getting obliterated left and right while trying to convince him back in the day I was an upper level Quake player who routinely pwned... 🙂 I mean just destroyed..... 😁

Cooling really helps as does silicon quality. On an AIO, I am running 5.6/4.5E auto ring and 5.7/4.5E auto ring. I'm dialing in a 5.8 config of the same nature too. Bios set = 1.28/1.33. Looks like 5.8 will dial in around 1.38v BIOS but not finished testing yet. 5.6 all core load = 1.152v on an AIO. Max temp = ~70 5.7 all core load = ~1.200v on an AIO. Max temp = ~76 5.8 all core load = 1.232v on an AIO. Max temp = ~81 This was all using Falk's testing parameters from the second post over on the OCN forums I only test with fans on auto never max. While this may skew the initial temps with a spike before ramp, it's more realistic for my use case. I'm tempted to see what a 5.9 all core load will look like on this SP109 on an AIO since 5.6->5.8 is doable. This is with basic CB23 testing. What's your V/F curve look like for your SP108? Post a pic. --- I don't think 1.35v-1.4v is the problem. I think a massive series of transient spikes and/or 1.5+ temporary loads over and over again are the problem. I expect Intel to cap the VR out max to ~1.45v with the MC update. *Maybe* 1.40v at the worst for over compensation. As it stands, we are seeing single core boosting to 1.5+, 1.6 and sometimes a bit higher which is insane and the real problem IMHO. You start to damage your preferred cores and all hell breaks loose. You force multiple cores to potentially pull those insane volts and it's game over sooner than later. With this limitation, there are suddenly going to be a rash of chips that can't hit their 6.2 targets consistently. This would also show reason why higher binned silicon isn't degrading as fast or actually surviving because they don't need to boost that high unless you get those who are stuck on wanting to run 6.0+ all the time single and multi 24/7.

Enforcing Intel's limits while pushing LLC to 5 (highest for Asrock to achieve minimum boost) and Vcore compensation to 1 (lowest assist). This is with per core auto engaged. It scores just about the same as Intel's defaults out the box and doesn't turn it into a smoldering firepit. Vcore under load all core = 1.088 for Multi and 1.392 for single (<---this is Intel's problem on poorly binned CPUs and/or just with basic enforements in place and those lower core runs shooting up to 1.5+). Single core was sitting at ~6.2ghz. 72c for multi, like 52c for single. Auto fans. I can see why this Lian-Li Galahad Performance tops the charts routinely for AIOs. It's a monster.

I believe Intel would coin this, "Aggressive binning" 🤣 How some of those chips made it out to a market dominated by air and aio cooling and joe average user that has no idea what they're doing is beyond me.....

Yeah that is why I ordered the TG. At first I requested a replacement set of Patriots, but I decided to pony up a little more $$$ to truly test a different set and I'm glad I did. Monitoring (VCC)SA @ 1.18 fixed = 1.161 actual during TM5 so I'm rerunning the 8200 tests at 1.42v vs 1.40v stock and logging the results to see if there is any spike/fluctuation. Passed TM5 90 min @ 8200 XMP pushing to 1.45v Booted and posted with 8400 and 8600 even with XMP enabled. I'll try seeing what 8400 can do over the next day or so and see how high it can boot/post. Patriot sticks wouldn't even post 8400 at 1.45v and loose 5600 Jedec timings....garbage sticks. --- As for the CPU, that is what I'm kind of thinking too. How far will I be able to truly press my sticks in an SFF? I'd most likely end up having to scale back due to heat in a 12.4L case. I'm going to see how it handles 5.8 all core on an AIO. Based on 5.6 and 5.7 coasting along nicely, might be doable. Everything right now will continue to be tested at 8000 min and really dial that in tight. Dunno where I'll land a SP109 for what I paid and it can do 8200 and maybe more.