electrosoft

This is what I've been asking for since ADL launched. Chuck the E-cores and slap on at least two more P-cores and I'm good to go giving us at least a 10900k core count and non hybrid CPU. I would snatch up a 12 core Socket 1700 CPU ASAP. Hopefully that Encore has a good binning and was not returned due to craptastic memory OC.

Funny, but I have always done all core too as my baseline vs per core tuning. I always figured what it achieves in all core is going to be more than enough for non multicore workloads. It makes it easier to tune around it too and control transient spikes that can happen in especially 2-6ish core boost. I absolutely refuse to use Asus AI/OC built in garbage. Everything was manually tuned. It was all over the map pulling all types of loads. Even testing the 14900KS on the Z690 Strix D4 briefly for verification, all that crap is turned off and just manual / default for that test to see it touch the sun before the Lightning comes in on what is now Wednesday instead of today (thanks UPS!) I will bench single thread usually out of box to see what it has and then start working on all core. I do remember dialing in my 5800X all core manually vs PBO and landing right around where PBO tended to land just more consistent. The cost was the loss of lesser core boosting. I did tune my 7800X3D w/ PBO along with memory tuning. 7950X3D I tuned the memory but have pretty much left it alone as is for some reason. 🙂 @Papusan did yo end up getting a third KS or just stuck with your K? I wish I could cap the per core boosting in the BGA laptops I have laying around to my liking but BIOS is garbage as always. Every jokebook running Intel I have will boost to thermal failure as a feature.....yay.

Nice! Mine will be here tomorrow so I'm looking forward to getting it on the test bench and spelunking around in the BIOS to see what it can do for me. Lightning dethroned the Edge for Jufes's top ITX pick: Wish I could have found an open box, but seeing as Amazon doesn't really deal with Asrock anymore directly, that basically means none would appear on the Warehouse. 😞 Speaking of Jufes, he posits it is the 2 core preferred insane boosting and voltage slamming through the chips that is causing degradation:

I figured you letting the R batch go and picking up a few retail 14900KS chips was because the delidding just wasn't worth it for your needs and setup. You ran delidded and relidded chips for quite a while before moving to delidded completely and now you're back to stock sTIM. I get that completely. I used to delid all my chips and relid them since 6th gen and now I rarely delid except for certain circumstances (like the last 12th gen I delidded to try and improve thermals in the NH55 laptop). That was a case of the heat transferred faster allowing the chip to run cooler but the chip was so hot anyhow and the laptop heatsink so small that I ended up at the same thermal limits just a little slower than before the delid. 🙂 --- The better cooling you have, the more silicon variance can be compensated for in regards to performance. When you run AIOs, air coolers along with more thermally challenging environments, SP rating definitely comes into play. I have yet to *ever* have a lower rated SP chip outperform a higher rated SP in chip since really using it as a metric since 10th gen. Even when blind testing chips and ranking them on lets say an MSI board then subsequently picking up an Asus board and testing the SP, the SP has always fallen in line with my testing results on a non SP enabled board. IMC is important and now a valid meta, but I am going to want the chip first and foremost perform as advertised and not go thermonuclear on me on an AIO and then IMC comes into play. The goal is chip performance vs thermals then 8000+ tight as possible. --- I can see your view of taking a whack at 1-2 chips and calling it a day and letting the chips fall where they may. With your cooling setup, you will always get decent performance at least. I'm waiting for AL vs 9800X3D/9950X3D showdown before I buy anything else. I'm quite content with my 7950X3D setup and it's all about 14900KS vs binned 7800X3D in WoW right now especially with the Xpac dropping on August 23rd. If 14900KS tuned with Intel APO enabled beats my 7950X3D, I have no problem swapping in Intel and moving the 7950X3D to the wife and replacing her 12900k setup or dropping the 7950X3D into my daughter's Team Red build and upgrading her 7600x paired with the 7900XTX. That would be a monster upgrade. ---- Good, extended reply bro. Greatly appreciated! 🙂

Any 12th, 13th or 14th i9 is better than 10980xe single and for gaming. Multi you're looking at a 10980XE being slightly behind a 12900k. 12900k will run the coolest and has zero problems but 13th and 14th gen are hit or miss it seems. Most of us have had no problems except maybe SA Bug for a few. 12900k for $245 new is pretty sweet. You get a serious gaming uplift and almost equal MT performance. It is the clear winner bang/buck. 13900k really stretches its lead. If I were you, I would just grab a 13900k and dial it in and reap the savings. Let's be honest: 13900k = 13900ks = 14900k = 14900ks. Depends on what you want to do. What kind of DDR5 did you get?

After watching the crapstorm of 14900ks chips drop during the first month over in the OC forums, I didn't even try. @tps3443 continues to have the magic touch and tried two and went SP99 and SP108 and called it a wrap. 🙂 I'm sure you regret delidding your R-batch @tps3443 and in hindsight would have just continued to run it stock lid in exchange for greatly reduced maintenance. 🙂 After binning multiples 10th through 12th gen and doing the "return/sell for a slight loss cha cha slide", I just didn't have it in me to do it again with 13th and 14th. I just waited for two decent specimens to pop up at retail or below and snatched them up.

Nice! Bodes well for my incoming Z790I Lightning....thanks for this bro. Let me know if you found any idiosyncrasies with the Z790I Lightning vs other Z790 boards you tested or was it "business as usual" 🙂 6400 in sync will require a decent chip with a really good IMC. I just dialed in 6000 (aka the sweet spot) for D2D and I'm good to go. I'm running 28-35-35-48 on 2x32GB A-die so I know you have room most likely to dial them in even more. Only a few times did I run a laptop as my main. I can't imagine not having a desktop. Once you get used to the flexibility of a desktop and enhanced cooling along with quieter thermals while gaming there's no looking back. Outside of benching/gaming, my desktop is whisper quiet. But with that being said, when I'm on the go I do like decent power. Not outlandish, but decent. I think that's why I'm taking another crack at an SFF to take with me that is even lighter and more portable with a super lightweight 18-23" display and wireless KB/M. The Cougar and Hyte were just too big and bulky even without anything in them for my ideal goal. This S450 is going to be a fun challange with the 14900K SP109 in it. The big hit will be those companies that lose faith and jump ship to AMD. It is hard to win back companies once they migrate to a new infrastructure as some have started to do. Intel had their last hurrah stretching Skylake all the way through 10th gen (which had its own issues) then 11th gen Frankenchip that regressed a bit. 12th gen was a rebirth for Intel as they took the lead across the board and the chips generally worked very well and then they pulled a super 10th gen oooopsie and pushed the architecture to hard and here we are now with 13th and 14th gen having issues. With that being stated, I ran my 13900ks for several months as my main desktop and had zero problems with it. I even lugged it around a bit in a SFF and it provided nothing but top notch performance so as always YMMV and most of us are more detail oriented than others when it comes to hardware but still it is clearly a problem.... Maybe AL will surprise us all and bring the high heat both ST and MT. I'm still holding out a dash of hope.

Welcome to Team Red! That is a really solid build and the 7900 GRE to me is the ultimate sweet spot for AMD 7000 series cards this series similar to the 4070 Super for price:performance except even better. 7800X3D and tuned up 6000 G2 will have you performing nicely! 7800X3D is definitely faster than the 12900KS and you will need a nicely tuned 13900k/14900k running 8000+ to give a 7800X3D a run for its money. I love laptops but for my main gaming rig it has to be a desktop. Last time I was laptop only was when I ran a P870DM w/ 980 desktop class GPU. Then the 1080ti dropped and I ended up going back to desktops for my main rig. Nope, not yet but I have it downloaded. My system is due for a clean install so my objective is to upgrade the BIOS tune it back up and give the rig a clean install all in one shot. It is a valid claim, but I think a lot of it was/is third party adapters along with improper insertion or not heading the warming signs. One of the very clear warning signs is intermittent black screens out of nowhere. Even I had a few and those few times immediately reseated my stock Suprim X 4090 Liquid cable and they went right away. Each time it happened I had been working inside my system. Now when I work inside of it, I always really press down to make sure it is fully inserted and then some and no problems. I definitely have a slight curve in my cable because it's impossible to not have one with the way the cables have to run back without an adapter. I've been running my 4090 for 18 months now no problems. I flat out won't use third party adapters. I stick with the tentacle or in my future case the stock MSI 1300 12VHPWR adapter.

I wish! Definitely the AIO. If they were $116 I would have grabbed a few. 🙂 I picked one up via Newegg via eBay for $249.99 so I could get back 5%. They're on sale right now for Neweggs annual Fantastadeal (or whatever they call it) extravaganza.

Asrock Z790i Lightning ordered and on its way 8200 sticks should be here tomorrow SP109 14900ks waiting patiently after dipping its toe into DDR4 land... I won't need the SFF built out and complete for over a month so that gives me plenty of time to set it up in my test case and run all types of benchmarks swapping the 7900xtx and 4090 back and forth between the 14900ks and 7950X3D in binned 7800X3D mode. Debating on taking a chance on a Lian Li Galahad II Performance 360mm to replace my EVGA CLC 360mm since it seems to outclass everything outside of custom water but V1 and some V2 have well documented pump issues. I ended up snagging a new one on Amazon for $116. Looks like they're on sale at the moment and just about every review I've come across puts it at #1. It will replace the EVGA CLC 360mm as my test bench AIO after 3.5yrs of faithful service. The Lian Li just seems to outclass everything at full tilt atm. Hopefully it is at worst a late V2 and at best a V3.

** GN has entered the chat ** TYC posits it is the I/O interface:

I watched this last night and found it really interesting. I do wonder if there is any correlation between the SA Bug and the overall failure rates of CPUs long term considering these data centers are targeting lower power profiles as they don't need screaming edge performance. In the end, I think we're going to find Intel pushed these chips too hard for their fab and power/heat levels in an attempt to stay with and/or beat AMD. SA Bug is just icing on the cake.

New TM5: https://github.com/CoolCmd/TestMem5/releases/tag/v0.13.1 woot, snagged it. Let's see if it fixes boot times as advertised. Good thing as I was *just* getting ready to flash the last version before a clean install. ~14% uplift in ST 7950x vs 9950x but only ~7% uplift in MT? That dog don't hunt. I'll have to see the full reviews but so far nothing super special to compel me to upgrade. I'll still wait for the X3D versions while I tinker away with this new (to me) 14900KS and also wait to see what Intel brings to the table with AL. Not like it isn't a monster card right out of the box. If you block and chill it, you'll slap on what? 100-150mhz extra? It does make me wonder what mine would do blocked w/ the 1000w vBIOS though since it clocks so high already as is....

Just using the stock vBIOS shipped on the original I usually boost to 2820-2835mhz out of box gaming and with an MSI OC I game around 3120-3150 on my Suprim X Liquid 4090. I will say temps have crept up slightly over the last 19 months since purchase in January 2023 so a repaste would probably do wonders. My memory tops out around +1600. I've seen some samples just blast straight to +2000 right out of the box. Just don't get a dud like my other Suprim X Liquid I tried that couldn't even go +700 and only boosted to 2650ish and OC'd stalled at 2900.

Congrats bro and at a killer price no less! I'm sure the Suprim X 4080 Super will sell relatively quick at that price.

SP109 14900KS is already back in its clam shell (wife will expect her PC ready to go when she gets home from work today for WoW 🤣), but one last follow up is I tested for the SA bug and it doesn't have it. I did 1.35v and ran TM5 and WMD no problem. I also was able to pass my standard quick stock TM5 at 4300 G1 before it gave up the ghost which was nice to see for a few reasons especially the Strix Z690 D4 I bought at launch for my rig then gave to the wife is really providing long term value. This is how I always start all my memory testing with a quick 5 min TM5 before moving onto heavier stuff. I switched to G2 to see if it was the CPU or MB and as figured it was the MB giving up the ghost. It tops out at 4300 just like it topped out at 4300 with the 12900k in G2 mode so there were no surprises there. I would love to have access to a binned MB that can do 4400 G1 just for curiosity sake, but it's neither here nor there as DDR4 is in my rear view mirror. My last set of DDR4 sticks went into the 12400 build w/ 3060ti sitting in the other room atm. As if perfect timing on the swan song that is DDR4, HUB dropping an updated DDR4 vs DDR5. I am sure he didn't tune anything and just ran XMP on both which is fair. Methinks if that was tuned 8000 the gap would be narrower between the 7800X3D and 14900K. 12th gen really likes DDR5! Total price to my door $631.94. Ya can't beat that for a good bin! Yeah, the more research I've done it really looks like a banger and it just went on sale for $249.99 at Newegg. I'll pick it up via eBay (same price) where I get 5% back on top of it. When I tested the Strix z790i and MSI z790i Edge, the Edge was the superior board easily and I sent the Strix back so it would be either pick up another Edge which was a great board or try the Strix again to give it another chance to shine. I'll be curious to see how the Lightning works out. Better PCB, better VRMs and for some reason lately Asrock is hitting it out the park on their 1DPC boards on both sides. I would normally hunt down an open box on Amazon, but I'm not sure what soured between Amazon and Asrock. They really do not sell a lot of their items via them nor do they honor any bonus games or items if bought from Amazon even directly as I found out with a 7900xtx.

Finally wrestled away my wife's desktop for the evening so I could test the SP109 14900KS on the Strix Z690 D4 running the newest BIOS. When I bought the 14900KS, all I knew was it was the price was great, it had ~1.488 at 6200mhz and SP109 so I was finger crossing the 5600 vids for SFF work and hoping for a sub 1.38 on the 5900. It is about as perfect an SFF chip as I could ask especially the 5600mhz point which was my biggest concern. Even the 5900 point is decent. Bonus award? The 4300mhz V/F point ties for the lowest I've ever seen (0.969) which bodes well for future use in the NH55 laptop if we can ever enable 14th gen support. This chip will really be made for it. I think this ties @tps3443 old R-batch for the 4300 vid point. Some quick testing and it was able to pass TM5 at 4233 DDR4 which is the highest of all the 12th and 13900KS SP115 I tested all using 2x16GB B-die sticks. Not that it will ever spend any time in DDR4 land, but nice to see it beat out all my other tested chips on the same baseline test. Overall very happy with the purchase! Of course that initial run reality settles in as this was run on an EVGA CLC 280mm w/ KPx and just like my 13900KS SP115 on its initial run on the same hardware, it blasted off into the sun and throttled hard before tuning it and getting the 13900ks to spit out ~42k on the 240mm EK Nucleus. My problem has always been I get excited when hardware runs hot/bad because I always see a problem to fix/tune. 🤣 I feel comfortable enough now to go ahead and order an ITX board. Asrock Lightning Z790i apparently has been hitting 8200+ on the regular so that one is in the running now too. I'm thinking of giving it a whirl. It also uses a 14+1+1 VRM design versus the 10+1 design of the MSI and Asus Z790i ITX boards. Asrock claims it can do 8600+ OC on single rank.....sure....ok.

Better pricing always works but..... ......this. For some reason, I'm not expecting a massive uplift or performance bump. Evolutionary vs revolutionary round 2. I'm definitely in hold mode till X3D and will snuggle up to my 7950X3D till that time and maybe beyond before price cuts hit. Pricing also might reflect market saturation along with real world worldwide market conditions along with stagnant opening sales for AMD last time around because pricing was too high across the board (CPU, MB and DDR5).

I actually watched that the other night. I'm subbed to your channel. I really liked the consistent fps and smooth performance with no hitching when running full tilt. I think I posted it many months ago, but taking several weeks to test and tune my 13900ks at 8000 CL36 the 13900ks was neck and neck with my 7800X3D at the time. Out of box vs out of box running at 7200 (intel) vs 6000 (amd), 7800X3D really outclassed it but once tuned up? It was a good shoot out and I think my final conclusion was I could be happy with either at that point. 7800X3D was tuned as I had had it for some time. 13900ks was tuned with a UV and dialed in LLC on the MSI Z790i Edge with the EK Nucleus 240 and 7950X3D out of the box as it was nearly fresh and new (both CCDs enabled) Now, the idea is to run that better/binned X3D CCD = binned 7800X3D vs 14900KS tuned up with and without APO optimizations and see where we land again with the 4090. It will give me an excuse to swap in my MSI 1300w PSU too. --- When the 12900k dropped and testing WoW, turning off e-cores actually provided better performance. It could have been a first gen architectural issue and/or teething issues with scheduling, but by the time the 13900ks dropped, keeping e-cores on provided equal if not better performance overall along with a better overall bump to performance. Now we have APO that supports WoW that's supposed to boost even more so we'll see. I know you like to test games yourself. If you ever want to test WoW, you will need to test the newest content as it has all the enhancements so Shadowlands and Dragon Isles only. Problem is you will need a level 60 character and lots of leveling to get to the point to do the best test spots (flight runs in Ardenweald for SL / Coast to coast flight in DI along with camping out in Valdrakken aka the CPU slayer). Nothing is more irritating than some YTers that load into basic WoW which is still running assets meant to run on a patched version of their 2007 engine and go, "lolz, 400fps....lolz....WoW will run on a tin can....lolz...I rule!!!111!!1" I usually hop into the comments and say they need to test in content from the last 4-5yrs to really get an idea. I might finally retire my EVGA CLC 360mm from my test case as it is being outclassed now by even my EK Nucleus 240mm and pick up the latest and baddest 360mm for it. I'll have to go take a looksy.

Preach. 🙂 I think all of us in this thread know about hitting IMC walls at one time or another.... 🤣 Agreed they are all about the same up top, hence shopping for best bang:buck. I'm not dropping $350 on a pair of G.Skill 8400 2x24GB sticks. I saw in the review where they noted the screwed down heatsinks made it easy to remove them for aftermarket heatsinks. They just made sense across the board. I love hardware but I'm also very frugal (my daughter calls me a tightwad). My objective is to remove ram as the limitation at least as it was the wall I hit before across three systems (2x AMD, 1x Intel) and I leave the other variables in play (CPU, MB). 1DPC w/ the Strix will help but in the end, my objective is 8000 tight but I will of course tweak and tune as high as possible for at least benching. I plan on slapping the 14900KS SP109 in the wife's system first on the Z690 DDR4 board because I want to see if those sticks I bought from @Mr. Fox a few years back can go any further. They could do 4100 on my 12900k cool hand luke that is in my NH55 now. With the other 12900k I delidded and swapped in to the Z690, it can only do ~4000 B-die tight, but when I tested them with my old 10900k golden chip back then they had no problems doing 4500 so I know the sticks are righteous and good to go. Plus it is a quick way to verify the V/F curve. I ordered the memory. Once I verify the CPU I'll order the Strix Z790i and then slap it all in my test bench for a few weeks of fun testing with the 7900xtx and Suprin 4090 before then moving into shoehorning it into the S450 SFF 12.7L case. I do plan on testing Intel's APO extensively with WoW since it is supported to see how it stacks up against the 7950X3D and binned 7800X3D (aka CCD0 turned off). Even at 4k, I'm CPU limited in numerous scenarios and GPU utilization will dip to 88-90% since WoW is still massively CPU dependent and not fully multithreaded even with the engine overhaul.

I went with the Patriot 2x24GB set since they're the Hynix modules and that price is great. I don't need the Teamgroup 360mm AIO even doing the offset cost it is $160 vs $189 but I just don't have a need for it nor would it be a model I would seek out plus I get 6% back from Amazon on top of that. $190 shipped when all is said and done. All the bad reviews on Amazon are from the 2x16GB 2GB 8000mhz older modules which were already at or near their limits most likely anyhow (especially if Samsung). Here's a nice write up on the Patriot 2 x 24GB kit if someone is interested in giving them a try too. Post is only 1d old as of this post.

14900KS SP109 arrived early today versus Monday. I can only test it on an Asus Prime B660 (system for sale I haven't even listed yet) or Strix Z690 (wife's system w/ 12900k) atm. Currently on the hunt for 2x24GB sticks 8000+. I've narrowed it down to the usual suspects from G.skill and Teamgroup but found a good price on some Patriot 8200 sticks 2x24GB for $190 here Decent review here from TT. Anyone else with better bang:buck sticks recommendations? Also Teamgroup sticks for $269 but you get a $110 360mm aRGB AIO for free with it...lol. Just a scummy move and another layer of companies trying to deny warranty claims to save $$$. Imagine if we didn't have the FTC what would happen? We need consumer protection laws like the EU has which are vastly superior to ours.

Were you able to hit 8400 and 8600 for short term testing before temps became an issue? I do know the Strix board I tested briefly before (Z790i) wouldn't even post past 8200 while the MSI Z790i would hit 8400 and 8600 for at least posting with the 13900KS SP115. Ugh, Gigabyte.....no thanks. 🤣 I have yet to have had a good experience with a Gigabyte board from Z390 through Z590. Reading over the Z790i Ultra from them I'm not doing backflips....

Thanks! Funny, but I was just revving the engine to start to seek out a nicely binned 14900k/ks for this push for a 12.4L SSF as I want to try to "re-tame" a 14900ks with the EK Nucleus CR240 sitting on the shelf that I used with the 13900KS with zero throttling. I was kicking myself a bit because I had turned down an SP108 14900KS for $800 because I didn't need it at the time a few months ago and thought I should have picked it up just in case. Debating on picking up another MSI Z790i Edge or going with a Strix z790i for something new(ish) as I explored that Z790i Edge from every possible angle so no new ground to tread but I really love those boards. Amazon Warehouse has the Strix Z790i for $230 (normally $450) How far were you able to push the MSI Z90i edge memory? I was limited by my sticks at the time as tested across three systems, they just wouldn't do much over 8000 (G4 x670e, MSI z790i edge, G4 Asrock B650 2 dimmer) tested but could boot 8400 and individually 8600.

I would need the proper board and memory to really test it so I'll probably never know how high it can fly lol.