electrosoft

I will say moving from SR M-die 2x16GB 30-36-36 @ 6200 to DR A-die 2x32GB 28-35-35 @ 6000 has provided a 10-15% uplift in fps in Fallout 76. M-die's couldn't do any better at 6000 or 6200 FYI. Last storage upgrade was picking up a 980 Pro 1TB w/ heatsink for my laptop since I looked around and didn't have a spare nvme sitting around for the first in forever.... I was going to get D4 anyhow but the free game offer with the FE 4090 was nice. I've played them all on launch. I also picked up D2R on launch too. I actually prefer D3 over it. I'm definitely looking forward to D4 and coincidentally I've pretty much have done everything there is to do in Fallout 76 now and maxed out everything so perfect timing.

Yeah there was no way a FE 4090 was going to last at $1400 shipped. So what is the total system build out look like now? My FE 4090 is still sealed sitting on the shelf while I sort things out. The more I look at the NR200P, the more it seems I might be able to get my Suprim Liquid X to fit and mount the AIO up top so that one is on the list now too. If I could do that I'd just return the FE 4090. I might order one just to prototype some ideas. They are pretty inexpensive and readily available.

If $1400 is total (no tax), I wouldn't pass it up but that's just me. 🙂

I was looking at both the NR200 and NR200P. I saw a MAX model too with an AIO but I think I like the NR200 along with the NR200 being cheaper and having airflow on the mesh side panel only versus glass option too of the P. Some did manage to cram an MSI Liquid Suprim 4090 in there but I'm not a fan of that bottom rad install. He ended up switching to an FE 4090. Here is an idea of what a FE 4090 would look like in an NR200 Horizontally Only concerns I have is all that heat flowing up and out versus the Dan C4 with the GPU isolated at the top pumping heat out the top and redirected specifically from the upper side (at least with an FE). Overall, I like the case because it is readily available and the NR200 is very inexpensive (~$110 USD). For the price, that would make a good, tried and true starter build for 18L. It's cheap enough and small enough to give it a prototype build out. I thought about (still thinking about) using one just to get a general start at a very low almost throw away price. You could also go with the NR200P Max that takes care of a lot of the parts work too but with the NR200, you really get a very inexpensive sff case that lets you build it out your way. Good idea and build with the 4090 (well 4080 FE but same size) in an NR200P Max (18L) Versus FormD T1 buildout (10L):

Agreed. I like the idea and concept but it needs screen options for higher resolutions. I have no problems with 1080p but 1440p would be nice or even 4k. The CPU can fit a larger air cooler but with moving around and all that stress on the slot? I would end up using a sff class low profile cooler anyhow. With all that empty space up top, I wish they had a built in strut system to hold and house a few radiators for AIOs or even custom water cooling. The GPU needs a front securing mechanism too for travel or a large GPU is going to rattle around everywhere. If the compromise is putting a small GPU, what's the point? If it can't properly secure a 4080-4090 class card for travel then a laptop with a mobile 4080-4090 GPU is basically just as powerful as the max size that will work in there. Outside of the promo build video from the company I haven't really seen someone build out of one online with a solid report for high end components. I'm still on the hunt and collecting info and figuring out what I'm going to do for travel (finally) starting this late summer, fall and into next year. I was looking at my daughter's full ATX supported small/mid tower and thinking I could even work with that form factor if needed with a handle on top and full mesh front and sides so I'm flexible. Weight isn't an issue, just external dimensions and getting a decent portable display (18.5" or greater) that is easy for travel. I'm using G.Skill's software to control my Trident A-die 2x32GB sticks on my MSI. I love that it is small, self contained and works effortlessly without spyware or bloat. While I don't like having to run it after power on to get my sticks to match, it could be worse like the Asus garbage.

As I continue to do research for a travel sff build.... Right now, I've narrowed it down to (in order of preference): 1. Dan C4: This seems to be the best of all worlds. Compact with extended support for not only Founders cards but larger air coolers. It is also easy to remove the GPU. 2. Sliger Cerberus If you're going to go bigger in portability, this seems to be the best trade off albeit it is brimming on the edge of a cheap small, normal case and save a bit of coin. 3. Case Club Portable Gaming Station The idea of an all in one with a big screen has its merits. No need for a travel case or figuring out how to pack it away. Great for road travel. Not so much for flying / train. This is the best for swapping components back and forth and being able to just use standard desktop hardware has its advantages. 24" display is also a major selling point. 4. The FormD T1 I like the FormD T1, but it seems to be a bit inferior to the Dan C4 plus harder to remove components. For SFF, CPU quality counts: Silicon lottery in play with an sff buildout (video starts right at the silicon quality differences):

I am not adverse to M$ offering universal RGB control versus installing a boat load of individualized spyware and data mining software. I mean M$ is slurping your data anyhow when able so..... I like them baking in nature RAR support too.

I ordered two kits of 2x16GB G.Skill 6400 modules because early buyers were claiming they were getting A dies and hitting 8000. I ordered a set for my 7800X3D but hey if it's A die on top of it? Well so be it. Alas, mine was M-die and wouldn't stabilize on my 7800X3D at 6200 properly. I ended up returning it and trying another and yep another M-die but at least that one stabilized but nowhere near the older M-die 2x16GB sticks I had from the previous year in regards to timings. Of course the A-die 2x32GB kit I picked up on ocn crushes all of M-die on my 7800X3D. M-die topped out at 30-36-36. A-die's do 28-35-35 with better secondary timings. Along with their DR they are providing 9-12% uplift in Fallout 76. So much so I popped my M-dies back in and loaded back in their profile to retest to make sure. Can't wait to re-test in WoW.

First phase of operation portable ITX and I kid you not today when the BB pick up CSR handed me this I immediately thought, "this thing feels like a boat anchor" 🤣 I still had the idea of when I received my FE 3090 box in my head apparently....

True but @Custom90gt wants to run a 13700k in a sff Dan C4. Overclocking a 13th gen is not a priority on many levels when building out a sff. Quite the opposite.

Jufres was able to hit 8000 on an MSI Z790i Edge and 7800 on the Z690i Unify. I remember this because I was looking into a 2 slot board that was the cheapest that could hit better memory speeds to take it out of the equation when wanting to initially test DDR5 on Intel and possibly moving away from DDR4 at the time on the D4:

D4 sticks are pretty cheap now just depends on what speed and capacity you seek.

3090 is the best bet if only for the 24GB. Dan C4 works with a lot of GPUs but really shines with Founders Editions so you could target a 3090 Founders. It can even accommodate 4000 series. 13700k is the best way to get a better 12900k (which you are already using) 2-slot Z790 itx = much better DDR5 performance. You will most likely be able to hit 7200+ depending on sticks.

😁🤣 I don't know what Nvidia and to a lesser extent AMD were expecting.... For the average gamer who at least even somewhat keeps up on market conditions and does a smidge of comparative performance analysis, they know this is garbage offerings from both companies. Nvidia just smells a bit more. AMD at least changed course right at launch and lowered the price of the RX 7600. 7900xt and 7900xtx have all come down in price plus a free TLOU game code (even the RX 7600!). Some 4080's are down to 1099 AND free Diablo IV ($70 value). Free game offer extends to the 4070 but not the 4060ti (boo!) Of course where able (IE unverified purchasers) it is getting review bombed everywhere.

"And the understatement of the year award goes to....well will you look at that.... @Mr. Fox!" Seriously though, that is a much better specimen than your other chip. Remember when the techtubers and sites were commenting on it was odd for Nvidia to introduce the 4090 first before the 4080 as that was out of their normal process (xx80 first, then halo product)..... As for the 12VHPWR, the problem is on the GPU end but if every burnt connector can be verified to come from non ATX 3.0 power supplies there may be a connection. On the other hand, I suspect the sheer amount of non ATX 3.0 power supplies powering the 12VHPWR connector vastly out number those with the ATX 3.0.

I mentioned this a few days ago in my post along with here too showing strategically limiting their memory, memory bus and core counts that Nvidia (and AMD to a degree too) is forcing their GPUs in their product stack into tiers along with price hikes. ADA is too powerful and if they were to offer a 4060ti series die with a 256-bit bus and even 12GB (let alone 16GB) at $399.99 with the same shaders as the 3060ti you suddenly do not need much else to game at 1440p for many use cases. How do you create a center stack before up-selling the 4080 and 4090 for 4k then? Everyone thinks Nvidia should have made a 4060ti with 16GB and a memory bus and core counts like the 3060ti for the same price but that just makes no sense business wise except to the consumer who always wants more for less. Sub $500, 1080p (With varying degrees of setting enabled depending on Vram/GPU aka 4060ti 16GB at 499.99) Sub $1000, 1440p (" ") >=1000, 4k (" ") "More for Less" is not something Jensen will ever subscribe to but with poor economical conditions world wide, GPU saturation and a slowly turning tide in resentment on GPU pricing overall, hopefully a lesson can be taught.

Let me pre-empt this by saying I use a Torque screwdriver for establishing optimal tolerances in many scenarios where torque is variable and not preset to establish precision tightening. This includes primarily laptops but also desktops along with other tasks when needed. This approach is also how I documented and found out it was the uneven pressure of the lower left CPU retention screw on the X170SM-G that was problematic in comparison to the others causing post and crashing issues. With that being said, plenty of users hand tighten and working within that dynamic margin of error have manage to drop their temps. Others, like Jay, did not really experience a worthwhile change. When problems have presented themselves (usually no post, crash during thermal expansion and faulty memory channels), they go in and manually loosen/tighten till it works and then it works for them (aka well enough). Some contact frames do come with measurements/recommendations. There are also many trial and error guides on line too. There are two trains of thought here: The idea of a contact frame is a waste and not needed even if mounted properly. The human error involved in hand tightening is more problems than it is worth. What is your opinion on both?

Rando repair video and Greg noting the 12VHPWR cable was not fully inserted from the owner....

Ah ok. I was just checking if there was some other unknown issue outside of human error/torque. Some see no results while others do with the contact frame. As always, YMMV. I always liked Jay. Just a dude who likes cars and tech and made a channel about it that took off. He never takes himself too seriously and it looks like they have more fun than not making videos.

What issues did you find with the contact frame outside of human error in regards to torque?

Yeah he definitely was out of it. I do not agree with all the backlash to a degree. I think the 4060ti is a fine card just not at that price point for the performance uplift generation to generation. Seeing as Nvidia already slowed/shut down 4070 production already I suspect they may feel the same wrath with the 4060ti. With VRAM being such a central issue (feeling yet again vindicated from late 2019/early 2020 when I was getting jumped on about VRAM issues and problems even with general allocations being high), an AMD card makes sense especially a 6750xt at 319.99 with 12GB vs a $399.99 4060ti with 8GB: A 16GB 4060ti at $399.99 and 8GB 4060ti at $349.99 (along with 4060 at $299.99) would have reviewers very happy at least due to the memory bump even if the overall performance vs the 3060ti is rather poor.

Nice! But seriously.... I say this with the utmost respect.... GO GET A 4090 ALREADY! 😁😆 No surprises here. Nvidia is re-aligning everything for the future and pricing since they got a taste of what consumers can and will pay during the mining pandemic times and to properly align their cards in their product stack you shift prices upward, cut dies, bandwidth and memory. You are no longer guaranteed a healthy performance bump along each tier even if Nvidia has to neuter their cards to give it to you. You won't get a *worse* performance bump tier vs tier (3060ti vs 4060ti) but it won't be the generational uplift we're used to in the mid to low tier anymore....and you'll pay for that privilege. 4060/ti is meant to be a full blown higher refresh 1080p card and that is what you'll get...and like it. Want Ultra settings too? Well, we have a 16GB model for that coming....aren't you happy? What? You want to do 1440p? Well, we have the 4070 and 4070ti....more memory? Fine, FINE....here is our $1200 4080...you are so lucky! Looking at HUB's review, on average it is ~8.8% faster at 1080p and ~5.4% faster at 1440p vs the 3060ti. It is a high refresh enabled card at 1080p and playable at 1440p. That is pathetic generation to generation wise. Nvidia is Intel ~5yrs ago but with the technical advancements to back it up but consumers don't forget and the mindspace thoughts about Nvidia are slowly shifting. The moment they falter and AMD (or Intel?) offers at least equally compelling products they will feel it just like Intel is feeling it now.

This build hurts my head.... $100k budget for a lot of BS but at it's core they select an EVGA Z790 Kingpin, 13900KS and G.Skill 6000 memory (?) 2x32GB and it won't run at XMP (or has issues) so they drop down to 5600..... That much budget I am definitely: Buying a binned out the wazzo 13900ks Drop down to 2x 24GB SR sticks / Splurging for some 8000 sticks Delidding the 13900ks Tuning the snot out of the memory, CPU and GPU (in that order) with all that cooling Might as well water cool the memory too... Heck with that budget I'd probably fish around for a killer 4090 sample too

I think the problem with the free floating design (potentially) is the floating leads and potential movement in the docking like @johnksss alluded to previously (as if he is rarely or ever wrong 🙂 ) In hindsight, I would have tested my original moving the wires manually to see if it would work and/or cause a shut down. This time during my next system overhaul I'm going to purposefully play with the lines/pins connected under a few different load levels and see if anything happens. There is zero movement in the MSI adapter (aka Quadro Force Tentacles **ATTACK**) Is there an all in one 12VHPWR 90 degree adapter and line on the market?

Yep and they do move slightly back and forth tugging on the cable. Replacement showed up today and visually it looks identical and the sense pins actually move a tad bit more and the lines are still free floating.