electrosoft

1. True, I have the means. 2. Jettisoned my 4090 and got it all back 3. WoW and FO can always use more FPS, especially lows above 100fps. I'd like to lock 144fps everywhere high and low. That's the end game for me. 4. It's a pure luxury item for me, but I want to continue to dabble more in LLMs and AI. 4090 was such an ad hoc generational leap it was insane and only $100USD more. 5090 is a much harder sell: much less leap; much more price. This is really a referendum on AI, DLSS4 and FG than anything.

Definitely true. I only game at 4k, but I can see where if 1440p is your chosen resolution a 4090 is more than enough especially if you're not interested in super super high refresh rates. The problem was we couldn't see the true extent of the bottleneck 1440p with the 9800X3D and 4090 till tested against the 5090 only to realize even the 9800X3D was gasping for air at 1440p all along! Even some 4k results with the 5090 have the 9800X3D tapped out but that was to be expected as there were already a few instances of the 9800X3D hitting a wall at 4k with the 4090. Intel? AMD? Get your act together.....

No argument from me on this one. But based on 3080->3080ti and 4080->4080 Super, the 5090 is definitely more than a TI or Super but not worthy of a new generation. Let's call it the 4090TI Super..... This means 6000 series should be a true monster with new architecture and another node shrink.

What's funny is reading this snippet of PCgamers review: "For me, I'd take that extra little bit of heat for the pleasure of its smaller footprint. What I will say, however, is that I did experience a lot of coil whine on our PC Gamer test rig. So much so, that Nvidia shipped me a second card to test if there was an issue with my original GPU. Having now tested in my home rig, with a 1600 W EVGA PSU, it seems like the issue arose because of how the Seasonic Prime TX 1600 W works with the RTX 5090, because in my PC the card doesn't have the same constantly pitching whine I experienced on our test rig." My 3090 FE was running on a Seasonic 1000w PSU (I eventually replaced with a Corsair 1200w that was recalled during their cold power issues) and subsequently also a 3070 FE running on that same Seasonic 1000w PSU and all were coil whine monsters. I sold off both and assumed it was Nvidia curse. The Seasonic is now in the wife's system w/ the 3080 Strix and if I don't cap the frames it is very noisy with coil whine but when I was testing it last year after a repaste in my main rig uncapped, the coil whine was almost non-existent on my EVGA 1600w 3090ti, 4090 and now this 4070 Super have been some of the quietest cards I've run and all have been running on this EVGA 1600w P2. Bud's 4090 FE is running on an EVGA 1300w P2 and it is quiet enough. Correlation is not causation and this is anecdotal at best, but a fun observation. If I do manage to score an FE, it will be interesting to see how it sounds on the EVGA 1600w P2 then maybe slap it into the wife's system just to see if the coil whine ramps up. Seems like we all won the lottery. 🙂 @tps3443 What does your wife say when you order all these toys? 🤣

That is true. Getting one early and riding it the entire cycle is the way to get the best value. Use it, ride it, sell it towards end cycle. Rinse/Repeat. It is just getting one that is going to be the problem at launch but they will eventually become available. They always do. You just have to be diligent. I lucked up and scored a 3090 FE less than a month after launch on BB. Hated it because it had the worst coil whine, even to this day, I have ever heard on a GPU. I didn't think coil whine could be that bad and sold it basically at cost to iunlock and then camped out for a KPE3090 which I scored in January. 4090 I ended up finally getting the model I wanted ~3months after launch from da egg and rode that for almost two years till selling it and recouping it all. ----- Looking forward to the AIB reviews tomorrow but the 5090 FE is quieter under load than the 4090 FE due to pitch. Hear the difference between the two and I used a 4090 FE before on my FO76 buddy's system before (ironically, he works at BB) and I didn't think it was that loud at all under load so that bodes well: Jay showing sound/pitch at both fixed to 65%:

It seems pretty loud, but the performance is there on average 35% faster than the 4090 and in some other reviews depending on game, up to 50% faster. It's a certified beast. I don't know if I can do 40dBA for a desktop card. That is approaching loud gaming laptop levels quickly. Even scarier it is 75% faster than a 7900xtx on average (but 100%+ more expensive). It is a flat out beast 4k card. ------ I was talking to the wife about tapping out because of cost (more like ranting). And she just looked at me incredulously and said: Her: "So you have no problems dropping 5k+ on vacations for us but balk at a 2.5k video card you will use for at least two years and most likely recoup most of the cost? Does that sum it up?" Me: "It's the principle" Her: "Uh huh" Me: "What does that mean?" Her: "Oh nothing...I just know I wouldn't take the odds of you NOT having this 5090 thing within a couple of months but I could be wrong." Me: "You're wrong" Her: "Right.....ok....sure. Can you hand me the ketchup?" 🤣

I do that quite frequently lol. 🙂 @tps3443 Looking at the MSI markup, it is actually over a **200%** markup over the 4090 ($150->$500) for the Liquid 4090 on top of an already $400 price increase between the 4090 and 5090. Absolutely bonkers.

I wasn't because the Liquid Suprim 4090 was $1749 vs $1599 MSRP (less than 10% markup) for the 4090 so at most I was expecting ~$2200 or even $2250 not a full 100%+ markup over their last difference between MSRP 4090 and Liquid models. Insane. I'll half heartedly take a stab at an FE due to price, flexibility and SFF potential but that's about it and when they drop. At a certain point, you just have to take your foot off the pedal and go, "done!" When a GPU after tax is closer to 3k than 2k it's time to rethink things a bit especially for the smallest jump in performance in 4 generations. Ahhh, ok! Over on the OC forums, you said you had a 14900KS SP112 and I was like, "whoa! When did Foxy get one of those!! I need to take a looksy at the V/F table on that puppy!" 🙂

They could have crammed a more classic PCB into another 3090/4090 retrofit, but they are also forward thinking and redesign it from the ground up. The logic here is with this new design if *IF* TDP goes up to let's say 700-800w, they can increase the fin stack and density towards the 4090 levels potentially a push/pull design to compensate or fall back on the prototype 4090 approach. Additional cynicism, it also makes it harder to put it back together with no signs of tampering for repair claims. --- It really is shaping up to be a Super Super for the 5080 on down but it is a bit more than a Ti/Super on the top but not by much but again, uplifts of 27-43% is nothing to scoff at. The price on the other hand..... I would love to think sales will be lower, but they won't. Enthusiasts and gamers (along with budding AI fans) will snap them up almost immediately. We won't see any downturn in sales for several months once early adopters simmer down. I am almost sure AMD was shocked at Nvidia's pricing and had to do an about face and pump the breaks because they thought Nvidia was going to come in at least $50-100 higher (if not more) across a few price points. This also doesn't bode well for the 9070xt's performance. We know the 7900xtx is going to be more powerful. If it comes in at 7900GRE levels of performance and is over $600 it is DOA. It will need 7900XT levels of performance and be right around $600 or less to be competitive. ----- On another note @Mr. Fox, what's the V/F table on your SP112 14900KS? Curious to see what it's points are. Arrow Lake is a worthy upgrade outside of gaming. Cooler running, new node, new technologies and a better overall performer on average than 14th gen.....just not in games. It is that poor gaming performance that made it DOA for me. I thought the same thing too. Imagine a mid cycle 9090xtx with twice the power and memory...you know, kind of what like Nvidia did with the 5080 and 5090. WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! $2500 for a 5090 Suprim Liquid?! That's $2665USD out of my pocket. Even the 5090 Suprim Air is $2559USD out of my pocket! Even the bottom tier Ventus is 10% higher than MSRP models = almost $2350 out of my pocket. I'm out. I'm not paying that much for a 5090 and quite frankly in hindsight I'm double glad I sold my 4090 and got back what I paid for it which was ~$1900 after tax. Either I get an FE or an MSRP model that I actually desire (I see none so far) or I'm content to rock a 4070 Super, 5070 or discounted 7900xtx. I'd even go for a used, cheaper 4080 Super at this point and be good to go no matter how amazing the 5090 performance is. Those prices are insanity levels! 🤣

Yeah, if I was blocking a card, the FE would be a non starter for me on many levels. I'd snag a Suprim. I don't think I'd want to block the Astral it's so pretty. 🤣 Yeah, it is going to be a monster for 4k RT games......like WoW you know. 😅 Fallout not so much but still a nice little boost to raster. Problem is 3090->4090 is really a once in a lifetime uplift and spoiled us, but the uplift from the 4090->5090 is smaller than any of the previous 4 generations so there's a reason to grumble there too.

3Dmark leaks for the 5090: https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-5090-3dmark-performance-leaks-out So basically a 20-30% uplift overall in games as predicted and synthetic tests showing varying results Timespy is about a 29% uplift (1440) but Extreme (4k) shows ~27% On the other hand, port royal (RT) shows a bigger improvement of ~34% as does Steel Nomad 4k of a whopping ~42% RT seems to have gotten a bigger boost this time around vs raster a bit.

Props for him basically telling Asus to kick rocks though..... He liked PNY but time and priorities makes total sense and I would love to see him create an AMD Kingpin card. Total shock to the system. At the start, Nvidia was fully an enthusiast company but over each generation Jensen has gone full Steve Jobs and continues to try and take control of everything. Seriously, if they had the production capacity of Apple, I think they would even stop selling to AIBs. But in Nvidia's defense, it isn't like AMD doesn't compete with their own board partners too with their in house reference designs. Definitely a Titan this time around if it appears at all. A 5090ti makes zero sense when a $3k+ Titan makes all the sense in the world on many levels.

I had reflashed my board today to 8.02 after double confirming 7.02 was wonking out on TM5 and Timespy CPU clocks were dipping bad on CPU portion. 8.02 clean 5.9 down the pike with tuned Intel enforced limits. I need it to present its best self when it goes up against the 9800X3D. 🙂 Don't mind the red exclamation mark. I had the fps locked to 120fps for some Fallout testing. ----- Jedec 4800 vs XMP 8200 in Fallout nets about a 10% gain in avg fps and a 15% gain in 1% lows before re-tune (coming up). It will come down to maybe again superior PCB (Suprim) vs 2.1b support and other factors. Also if you're going to block it. I'm not sure what the play is going to be for those who want to block the FE and have to have a block that either provides a built in PCIe slot connector or a way to mount the daughterboard onto the block and still connect to the FE board after you clean up the LM and see if the LM dam gets in the way. I think of the FE as the "thin and light laptop" version of the 5090 desktop cards. Luckily we'll find out in a few days.

Nice! Especially considering the degradation shown in the Suprim cards last time around with the stock thermal paste. This really won't matter much to gamers. Card will work as advertised and probably pull around 500w on average while gaming. ------ 9070 series not dropping till March....grrrrr. https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-confirms-radeon-rx-9070-series-launching-in-march Well, that takes them out of the running for now with me. 7900xtx/4080 Super used / 5070 or 5090......

Asrock 8.02 Bios (January 2025) w/ Intel enforced "limits" still a flaming ball of sun fire to the face.... and this is on a good sample 14900KS: Stock 8.02 w/ Intel limits (notice the 253w limits are in place): After a little enforced tune up for gaming 5.9 all core:

I'm seriously starting to think I can not accept a 15% markup (plus tax) on an already $2k card. I can't see paying $2300+tax= $2452 for a video card again. I say again, because I paid 2585 initially for a KPE 3090ti but it at least came with a 1600 Platinum PSU AND I was able to get them to knock it back down to $2k+ tax. I remember feeling near instant regret within a week or so of having bought that paying that much for a freakin' video card to bench and game on. I was very happy to sell it 3 months later and get back everything I put into it and I'm still using that PSU to this day in my main rig. 🙂 Even an FE is going to be $2132.50 out of my pocket after tax. Ugh. I'm going to have to mull this over seriously while I also see how the 5070 Super and 9070XT perform. I already know a 7900xtx w/o RT on is pretty righteous already in its own right at the right price. My biggest fear is WoW running into issues again like it did before and dragging on for over 10 months and basically being unplayable.

I'm starting to sour a bit on the 5090 if these prices translate to USD in any meaningful capacity. Would if I could, but BB limits you to one per customer. 😞 ------- @Mr. Fox I've been seeing this more and more how on AMD, AM5 SP rating is dictated by cooling which would be a bummer. On X3D, I only really care about the IMC, but still want SP to be at least one valid metric: https://www.overclock.net/posts/29416394/

Have multiple windows open, no restrictions/policies in place helps, verify your accounts and everything are up to date. Right before the drops, log out and log back in so you won't need to re-verify. Use the BB app. It works quicker and cleaner than the website I've found numerous times. I plan on having BB on the phone going along with Newegg, Provantage and B&H open at the ready. I will toss any and all I can get into carts and the first one to check out and confirm (FE, Suprim, Astral) wins! Part of me wants to go to MC along with having BB and a few windows open on my phone but I'm not THAT worried if I don't get one. I rarely, if ever, score one launch day and I'm ok with that. It's only rumors so far, but the 9070XT might drop before the 5090 and that would be fantastic to snag one of those and get it in for some quick testing, but either way you look at it, reviews are going to tell us everything we need. Pros of the FE are the segmented daughter board approach and size. less chance of a PCB crack and if there is, only need to replace the slot connector. Cons are if you want to block it or really push it. Stock for stock, they're all going to run pretty close to each other so any and all will game like a champ.

Yeah, he's not wrong. He also noted going out and snagging a Suprim or Astral for the cooling capacity. I do find myself agreeing with him more often than not. I think those who want to block or push 5090 to the extreme are no longer (if they ever were) a concern to Nvidia. It's clearly evident by how they keep trying to lock it down in every way possible from having full control over power and voltage. 😞 This is a sleek, compact, well engineered card targeting workstation and sff enthusiasts along with gamers and those who want to slap it in and play their games or get their workflows done. The FE is not for you and vice versa. 🙂 Guess we'll find out on review day, but whether it is the FE or the Suprim/Astral, that 575w of heat has to go somewhere and that is right in your case unless you block any of them or get an AIO variant. I run my case completely open now with the back, front and side panels all removed so an AIO model is no longer needed, but my main concern is going to be 575w worth of heat potentially venting into my small computer room. When I ran a 3090ti, I had to have the door open or the room because a sauna relatively quick. The amount of heat that 450w+ under load chunker threw off was insane. I used to sometimes just hold my hand over it and feel that heat pulsing off of it. That's where we are again with the 5090.... Even if the FE cools like an engineering marvel, it will be blowing flames like a dragon from Game of Thrones. Might as well have a "Dracarys" edition on these things.

Jay building ITX w/ the 5090 FE in the SSUPD Meshroom 😧 Same length and height as the 4090 but much smaller width. 4090 = 4.8lbs (2178g) 5090 = 4.0lbs (1816g) Which means that 5090 is DENSE

Updated! 😁

Was never, ever going to buy one anyhow cause TEAM RED!! 🤣 @Raiderman Holding out: @Mr. Fox @Papusan Going with the flow: @electrosoft Definitely buying: @johnksss @jaybee83 @tps3443 @Talon Did I miss anyone? 🤣

Something must have been up with 7.02 BIOS for the Asrock Z790i Lightning when no matter what I did, TM5 was failing even on 6400 sticks (those same sticks running rock solid on the Hero right now at 2133/6400). I went back to 6.02 and the problems disappeared. 8.02 just dropped so as a test I went BACK to 7.02 and TM5 was failing again. Went to 8.02 and now TM5 passes no problem again. Yeah, hopefully the reviews will be a bit better but actual real benchmarks out in the wild aren't exactly showing that 30-35% uplift both in OpenCL and Vulkan along with those game tests but the deluge of reviews next week will provide clarity. Translation: "Hope I score a 5090, but if not I'm good with my 4090....but I really would like to score a 5090!" 🙂 4090 is still a monster....

Hmmmm, @jaybee83 this looks interesting. I didn't even notice this post here, but I'll take a looksy, thanks! Do you have some screen shots of the BIOS post unlock and some results @ecxedxrip?

Same reaction to not having an 18" version of this approach but at least they're trying. If they can aquire mobile dies and fab their own GPUs like this, that opens up possible upgrades. They just need to keep this form factor going forward. ----- 5090 benchmarks looking not spectacular..... ~27% uplift in Vulcan and 14% in OpenCL: https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-5090-appears-in-first-geekbench-opencl-vulkan-leaks ~20% gaming uplift with all the bells and whistles turned off but testing methodology is odd in early review leaks of the 5090D (which isn't game capped): https://videocardz.com/newz/geforce-rtx-5090d-reviewer-says-this-generation-hardware-improvements-arent-massive