electrosoft

Intel is not only extended its warranty to 5 years but also to OEM/Tray CPUs: Important part is if you can't get satisfaction with your OEM/Tray seller, reach out to Intel directly now. That's huge for some of us who have purchased tray CPUs. https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-to-extend-warranty-for-oem-tray-13-14th-gen-core-raptor-lake-cpus

I just finished watching this. It appears Wendell and Falcon NW helped with the data and presentation. Watching the entire thing and looking at the fixes in place now, there are still problems: The newest BIOS (along with MC 0X125) set Intel baseline prefs (PL1/PL2=253w, ICC=307A) but still let chips overheat and single cores fly to the moon. It is false comfort. What they also should have done was also auto set very conservative LLC levels to stop any overshoot as auto then steps in and gets slap happy. Personal testing using the "default" settings but adjusting LLC/AC_LL/DC_LL in tandem immediately brought all that overheating nonsense to a a stop and even allowed single core boosting to 6.2 to stay sub 1.4v at all times testing in CB23. I can not monitor the transients properly without an Oscilloscope nor do I want to go to BZ levels of data collection, so for now I'll stick to manual fixed voltage till the next bios update/mc patch and like I said before I have four profiles pretty much dialed in at 56x-59x / 45x / Auto ring (IE 4.5ghz - 5ghz). When the bios update drops, I'll test it versus 125. This was shown on using the newest BIOS releases on the Z690 Strix and Z790i Lightning. Using defaults right out of the box and updated had my 14900KS shooting to 363w which in and unto itself isn't "bad" but what it also had it doing was overheating like crazy and asking (and getting) crazy amounts of voltage. Like you say, taking control of vcore is king. Taking control of your voltage either via vrout max is the easiest way if your MB supports it (gigabyte and asus). Leave everything at auto and cap overall requested voltage regardless of settings/scenario/programs. This as "set and forget" easy as it gets. Actually get in there and test/explore all types of settings and properly get to know your BIOS to extract maximum performance safely.

That will still get the job done for him and he should be quite content. 🙂 OLED really is a game changer in regards to display quality. It makes switching back and forth with IPS/VA panels quite noticeable.

Yup! If it is either of these two I own, he is good to go! I actually really like these laptops for everyday portability and tasks. I use the Ultra 9 and gave the Ultra 7 (well, she kinda declared it hers and that was that) to my wife. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-vivobook-pro-15-oled-laptop-intel-core-ultra-9-with-24gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3050-2tb-ssd-earl-gray/6568758.p?skuId=6568758&extStoreId=692&utm_source=feed&ref=212&loc=21470219954&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjeT_ufjchwMV8TAIBR3kzBvZEAQYASABEgLqU_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds or https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-vivobook-pro-15-oled-laptop-intel-core-ultra-7-with-16gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3050-1tb-ssd-earl-gray/6568760.p?skuId=6568760

Yeah, some people can play 10-12 hours a day. I love it, but I'm good for 3hrs at most and that is only on some days. My wife is more hardcore than I am now and plays 4-6hrs a day 3 days a week and 2-3hrs the other days. This last Xpac she is officially ahead of me progression wise lol. 3050 1080p laptop can handle WoW with details turned down quite nicely. I have two laptops sent to me by Asus that are 3050 laptops. One has an Ultra 7 and the other an Ultra 9 but they are identical besides the CPUs (I should do a quick write up showing Ultra 7 vs 9 with everything else being equal in them). Besides running very quiet, they handle WoW great on detail level 4-5 (1-10). They both have OLED displays and look really good.

I had a golden sample LTX 10900k and it was good but not as good as the Silicon Lottery SP101 10900k I picked up used. That one was a monster. It performed better still lidded than the delidded other ones. It was crazy good. I did a comparison when binning it along with a few other trash sample and 1x "binned" from ZtecPC 10900k's here:

14900KS 5.9 all core testing, 8200 CL36 3060ti (only card that fits atm). In the SFF, it will be either 5.7 or 5.8 all core but i'm leaning towards 5.7 as 200mhz isn't going to make or break this build but does add a disproportionate amount of power draw and increased heat for minimal gains. Crazy how on all my Intel BGA laptops this will spike to 100c on both 13th gen and Ultra 7/9 (I have them all) and even on my NH55 w/ the 12900k dialed in as much as possible it will still hit the 80's at much lower frequencies but desktop on AIO? 5.9 no problem once tuned.....this 14900ks is going to rock in the SFF. Modern laptop heatsinks are bleh as always. Doing 1080p testing for the SFF and either the 18" or 23" display I'll be taking with it. This is at low settings to show you how WoW and cities just go to town on CPUs. Don't let the fps fool ya. Once I switch it to ultra settings and turn RT on, fps plummet and the lows get real nasty (36ish) on the 3060ti. I'm tempted to give a 4070 Super a whirl. I feel like that would be the sweet spot but I want to test the 7900xtx and 4090 first to kind of gauge. Total system draw according to kill o watt meter is ~336w while playing. This is why we call Valdrakken the CPU slayer with all the player data. Out in the open world, 500+ fps GPU Utilization almost always 91-99%. As soon as you come into "hubs" in WoW where calculations shift decidedly to the CPU, fps tank and GPU load plummets to sub 60%. Valdrakken: "Not" Valdrakken:

Agreed, as soon as this fiasco popped off I immediately had visions of lockdowns like laptop BIOSes coming next for desktops and I definitely do not want that. If Intel (and AMD to a degree) want to maybe dial down the e-peen contest a tad and not be so aggressive in their boosting algorithms, I'm absolutely fine with that as that would just mean more headroom for us to dial in at our own discretion. To me, this works the best if Intel and AMD want to be a bit more conservative out of the box but leave MB/BIOS options to the discretion of MB makers. If Intel and AMD decide overclocking is no longer a worthy endeavor and the boost you get is the boost you get and recommend/enforce severe non-K like chips, that would be a sad, sad day. In the end, Intel's turbo/boost algorithms and vid requests on 13th and 14th gen were kerfuffled resulting in ridiculous voltage that fit under en envelope of ~2 cores being able to boost to 6.2 and pulling insane amounts of voltage trashing the cores. Don't punish enthusiasts for your mistakes. It is good and especially at that price point. Yeah I'm going to be held back because of SA limitations (1.18 max solid, 1.19 benching quasi solid, 1.20 insta lock up) and SFF considerations and heat. 1.36 SA is a pipe dream for me. 🙂 Luckily, the chip is firing on all cylinders everywhere else that I need it. 8000 was the goal. 8200 is icing on the cake for this build. 🙂

I'm using the Lian Li Galahad II Trinity Performance 360 right now in my test rig to replace my old faithful EVGA CLC 360 since getting another Socket 1700 mounting bracket would be $35-40 so I just decided to grab what has been rated the best for awhile now in AIOs. While I acknowledge I am using good silicon with this SP109 14900KS, it is handling everything I throw at it up to 5.9 all core. It is pretty beastly and built like a tank. I've never used an AIO with a mounting block so thick and dense before. It also has a very high flow rate if you desire (which I do, so I have the pump running full tilt). You can use Lian Li's software for more exacting controls via USB connection, but it also lets you hook it straight to the MB for direct control which is how i'm controlling it on auto. It is a lot noisier under load than my Arctic Cooler Liquid Freezer II 420 in my main rig so if noise isn't your jam, you might want to look elsewhere or just replace the fans. It is also dirt cheap atm on Amazon for $110 (free shipping if Prime member). All models shipping now are late revision V2 so the pump issues are a thing of the past (in theory). Currently in my test case....

Monstrous value here used but like new sold and shipped from Asrock 6950XT for $420 via Amazon Glad to see Asrock and Amazon worked out their differences as their store is nearly fully stocked with their products. 🙂

SP109 14900KS + TG 8200 + Asrock Z790i update: ------------------------------------------------------------------ So I've been testing UE5 shader compiles with Fortnite (clear cache, relaunch, repeat) with the 14900KS and whew, watching this suck down 300w+ and all cores ablaze on launch for a bit is something I've never seen in a game before but I never played some of the major heavy hitters like this before either. I don't remember CP2077 doing this (but that was on my 12900k). My 7900XTX will not fit in my test case since the 360mm AIO is mounted to the front so I slapped in my 3060ti from my backup 12400 system for testing. When I switch over to the Nucleus 240mm for phase 2 testing, I'll slap in the 7900XTX and swap back and forth with the 4090. I think I just need to pick up an open bench and keep it for testing hardware. With modern hardware, this Corsair 540 is showing its volume age. I haven't really used the Epic Game store and it is very unpolished with issues compared to Steam. Not a fan. As for the Asrock Z790i Lightning, I like it, but I do have some pet peeves with it and little bugs that are annoying. --- #1. The CMOS battery is glued to the side of the rear I/O with a 2 position connector wire that plugs in that is just screaming it will break eventually as everything you have to yank the wire to do a hard reset. #2. There is no IA VROUT MAX control like on Asus and Gigabyte. #3. Ring will cap at 4.5ghz when selecting all core no matter what. You have to go in and select per core and set your all core that way for it to boost to 5ghz #4. Whenever you change your fixed Vcore, it will automatically switch back to LLC1 --- Right now, I have 5 profiles setup for testing/use 56x 45x Auto Ring 8200 Fixed 1.28 57x 45x Auto Ring 8200 Fixed 1.33 58x 45x Auto Ring 8200 Fixed 1.37 59x 45x Auto Ring 8200 (work in progress) But right now looking like 1.41 atm Auto freq w/ Enforced Intel limits with adjusted AC_LL/DC_LL and LL/Vcomp set to min 8200 Until the Intel MC update, I'm sticking with my fixed Vcore profiles. After we find out their official cap, I'll start dialing in the Auto freq profile to fully test 6.2 boosting and various games for data collection. I know I boost only to 1.392v max 6.2 auto CB23 but it isn't worth taking a chance just to be safe till then also knowing I prefer fixed overall anyhow. All are working on AIO for my use cases. All do not thermal throttle and range anywhere from ~68-70c (5.6x fixed along with Enforced) up to ~87c (5.9 fixed) with CB23 loop testing. I still need to test 8400. Trying to boot 8800 = hard lock up requiring a physical power reset which means it is the SA Bug kicking in. 8600 boots but as soon as I run TM5, SA Bug lock up. This shows the limitations (if you can call them that for my meager setup) but also shows really good potential for the TG sticks and this Asrock Lightning Z790i board. I'd love to test a known, good chip up to 8800+ just to see. Oh, and since I was testing shader compiles in Fortnight, I decided to try and play (I've never played before) and my nephew (who is a die hard player along with COD) laughed so hard at me failing over and over again in Battle Royale as I was getting obliterated left and right while trying to convince him back in the day I was an upper level Quake player who routinely pwned... 🙂 I mean just destroyed..... 😁

Cooling really helps as does silicon quality. On an AIO, I am running 5.6/4.5E auto ring and 5.7/4.5E auto ring. I'm dialing in a 5.8 config of the same nature too. Bios set = 1.28/1.33. Looks like 5.8 will dial in around 1.38v BIOS but not finished testing yet. 5.6 all core load = 1.152v on an AIO. Max temp = ~70 5.7 all core load = ~1.200v on an AIO. Max temp = ~76 5.8 all core load = 1.232v on an AIO. Max temp = ~81 This was all using Falk's testing parameters from the second post over on the OCN forums I only test with fans on auto never max. While this may skew the initial temps with a spike before ramp, it's more realistic for my use case. I'm tempted to see what a 5.9 all core load will look like on this SP109 on an AIO since 5.6->5.8 is doable. This is with basic CB23 testing. What's your V/F curve look like for your SP108? Post a pic. --- I don't think 1.35v-1.4v is the problem. I think a massive series of transient spikes and/or 1.5+ temporary loads over and over again are the problem. I expect Intel to cap the VR out max to ~1.45v with the MC update. *Maybe* 1.40v at the worst for over compensation. As it stands, we are seeing single core boosting to 1.5+, 1.6 and sometimes a bit higher which is insane and the real problem IMHO. You start to damage your preferred cores and all hell breaks loose. You force multiple cores to potentially pull those insane volts and it's game over sooner than later. With this limitation, there are suddenly going to be a rash of chips that can't hit their 6.2 targets consistently. This would also show reason why higher binned silicon isn't degrading as fast or actually surviving because they don't need to boost that high unless you get those who are stuck on wanting to run 6.0+ all the time single and multi 24/7.

Enforcing Intel's limits while pushing LLC to 5 (highest for Asrock to achieve minimum boost) and Vcore compensation to 1 (lowest assist). This is with per core auto engaged. It scores just about the same as Intel's defaults out the box and doesn't turn it into a smoldering firepit. Vcore under load all core = 1.088 for Multi and 1.392 for single (<---this is Intel's problem on poorly binned CPUs and/or just with basic enforements in place and those lower core runs shooting up to 1.5+). Single core was sitting at ~6.2ghz. 72c for multi, like 52c for single. Auto fans. I can see why this Lian-Li Galahad Performance tops the charts routinely for AIOs. It's a monster.

I believe Intel would coin this, "Aggressive binning" 🤣 How some of those chips made it out to a market dominated by air and aio cooling and joe average user that has no idea what they're doing is beyond me.....

Yeah that is why I ordered the TG. At first I requested a replacement set of Patriots, but I decided to pony up a little more $$$ to truly test a different set and I'm glad I did. Monitoring (VCC)SA @ 1.18 fixed = 1.161 actual during TM5 so I'm rerunning the 8200 tests at 1.42v vs 1.40v stock and logging the results to see if there is any spike/fluctuation. Passed TM5 90 min @ 8200 XMP pushing to 1.45v Booted and posted with 8400 and 8600 even with XMP enabled. I'll try seeing what 8400 can do over the next day or so and see how high it can boot/post. Patriot sticks wouldn't even post 8400 at 1.45v and loose 5600 Jedec timings....garbage sticks. --- As for the CPU, that is what I'm kind of thinking too. How far will I be able to truly press my sticks in an SFF? I'd most likely end up having to scale back due to heat in a 12.4L case. I'm going to see how it handles 5.8 all core on an AIO. Based on 5.6 and 5.7 coasting along nicely, might be doable. Everything right now will continue to be tested at 8000 min and really dial that in tight. Dunno where I'll land a SP109 for what I paid and it can do 8200 and maybe more.

Good news: ------------------------------------------------------------------ Been testing the TG vs Patriot sticks and the TG sticks are vastly superior. Better XMP timings and lower voltage (1.4 vs 1.45) at the same speed. TG passed 8000 90 min TM5 XMP right out of the box even hitting close to 70c no problem. Patriot erred out at 8200, 8000 and on a long run of 7800 (before 90 min). As a test, I set the Patriot sticks to TG timings and voltage and they erred out immediately at 8200, 8000 and within 10 minutes at 7800 with temps either only hitting 55c or in the case og 8200, 43c. They're garbage and going back. Crazy how much beefier the TG heatsinks are. I weighed each stick and the Patriots weigh 47g/ea and the TG sticks are 84g/ea. I'm most likely going to hold onto the TG sticks but..... Bad news: ------------------------------------------------------------------- After more granular testing, I'm pretty sure this chip has the SA Bug. The TG sticks let me find it as the Patriot sticks would error out on TM5 before triggering it. TG sticks at 8000 and 8200 just sucked it up till the bug triggered (complete system lock up, black screen, requiring hard power off/on). No problems with DDR4 at 1.35v and no problems at lower frequencies at 1.35SA which is must likely an issue of setting vs requested voltages. As I scale up, requested voltage triggers it and boom. Once you're at 8000 and 8200 auto SA (or hard set SA) and you go to run TM5, instant (8200) or within 5 minutes (8000) lock up, black screen and power reset required. Testing SA shows 1.18 is rock solid. 1.20 it will eventually SA Bug out. The higher you scale the quicker it triggers. IMC on this chip is indicating 8200 @ 1.18v it will eventually hit a wall and need more SA and bug out. Hard set to 1.18v at 8200 and the system will just reboot 20-30 min into testing. I'll run a few more tests with a touch more Vmem just to completely rule out the sticks vs SA wall but either way, it looks like overall this chip is SA Bugged. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Not sure if I'm going to keep it but everything else about it seems pretty solid. I just have to decide if I'm good with the SA Bug as 8000 tuned was my D2D goal.

Intel: I would prefer to see actual Vcore/ out idle and under load as that is the most accurate read under load not VID requests.... (IE, what is requested vs what is actually given). With every 13th and 14th gen so far tuned, VID pretty much does it's own thing but scroll down further under motherboard and read Vcore / out and you will see the actual fixed Vcore idle and the droop under load. Now if under load Vcore/out is hitting those levels that's another story..... AMD: Remember, I received a brand new SEALED 7950X3D from best buy with a 7950X in it.....QC run amok. Still hilarious though. 🙂 Speaking of Intel and limits: This post over on the OCN forums makes much sense: Stepping through my amps, ~325a set stopped any type of downclocking at 56x / 45x / 50x which coincidentally using the calculation showed 307a bios set wasn't enough (307a set = 204a actual) but Intel allows 400a under their new guidlines set = 576a which is overkill if you're looking to dial in your ICC to that particular setting. ~341a-342a bios set is the inflection point it seems if you're looking for equilibrium between set and actual. Or we can take the @Mr. Fox approach and open up everything to the wall! 🙂

What are you using to cool them? I picked up the TG because of the superior HS and to compare/contrast with the Patriot sticks but I sit there and watch the Patriot temps edge upward and know when they get to ~ 53-55, an error is incoming. I even closed the case completely up and let it get toasty in there (there are no fans except the AIO intake in the front so that is hurting not helping lol) I can get them to crash in ~10 minutes with the case closed. 15 minutes case open and 25 minutes with a fan right on them at 8200. I haven't even checked to see how high they will post on either set. I'll check that later. I did check the newest 0X125 vs 0X11F Microcodes versus each other just to see if there was a difference and there wasn't for my needs which was expected since I tuned everything manually but I DO know even at stock default everything with 0X125, that thing shot to 363w and overheated almost immediately when I first tested it last week before "The Tuning-ing" Going to sort out / have fun with the memory over the next several days then dial in 5.8 all core just to see where it lands with this SP109. ETA for the SFF transplant is probably a month at the rate I'm sauntering along in the testing/dialing in plus I still plan on slapping the 7900xtx in there and then 4090 to collect all new sets of data since the WoW Pre-patch Xpac has dropped (final upgrades/settings for the new Xpac GPU engine).

I suspect many many 14900K and especially 14900KS chips will degrade over the next year or so. I also suspect many users are going to be irritated when the new MC patch neuters a lot of those boost speeds as many of us are seeing testing even current limits and actually running Intel new limits which as found doesn't stop lesser core boosting to 1.5v+. Helping out a few friends and a few guildies with their systems = Two 14900KS chips and two 14900K chips and three were "flame on!" out of the box at stock settings tanking 3x AIOs and one CL without tuning. Even the SP115 13900KS was approaching the sun out of the box before tuning. One 14900KS was an SP98 on a Z790 Strix and it capped out at 1.40 BIOS setting and pulled close to 1.3v to be stable under CB23 load testing. I ended up setting it to 53x / 43x / 45x to keep it stable and cool on his AIO but it still games like a monster. The universal answer of enabling CEP, cutting PL to 253w and ICC to 400a just results in Silicon Lottery grossly coming into play and the better your silicon, the more performance you will get when capped across the board but either way it is nowhere near what it should be as advertised and still doesn't stop 1-4 core loads from spiking over 1.5v. I wouldn''t be surprised if Intel doesn't cap it to 1.5v or even 1.45v across the board regardless of situation with the MC update. I still firmly believe that capping your PL is not the solution nor the problem. It will always be dialing in and controlling your Vcore and as a safety measure just cap your amps to 400a which in just about all normal like scenarios won't even be approached. Just using CEP, PL and ICC is an indirect way of limiting your Vcore but not in all scenarios if unchecked.

State of the SP109 14900KS: For my most likely SFF settings of 56x/45x/50x 8000 for CB23 loop testing, Vcore is BIOS set 1.28v fixed , LLC 3 and ~ 1.152v under load resulting in 72c on the Lian Li Galahad II Performance 360mm AIO w/ KPx. PL are unlimited and ICC is capped to 400a. This results in pulling ~323w in HWInfo verified with ye ole Kill-o-Watt meter. This chip is hungry but runs relatively cool. I worked with AC/DC LL and it really didn't make much of a difference and added in a little bit of instability, so near stock (.74) is good enough. I was able to shave off ~9-10w dialing it in and it wasn't worth it overall. SP115 13900ks required fixed 1.33 for the same level of performance and that was with E-cores @ 4.3 vs 4.5 on the 14900KS. SP109 14900KS can do 5.7 same settings as above and top out around 77-80c on the AIO at 1.33v fixed CB23 pulling ~356w. Ambient temp in my computer room is ~70-72f year around. I haven't really worked with 14900KS chips, but i'm kinda amazed how cool then CAN run even on an AIO dialed in with no delid. I haven't really dug into 5.8 too deeply as I moved onto memory a bit when I had time but I want to see where that tunes into too. -------------------------- Right now, I'm fighting with the memory so as a control I ordered a set of Teamgroup 8200 sticks that will be here tomorrow. Problem it looks like is the heat sinks (aka heat retainers) of the Patriot sticks hit ~53-55ish and they error out at 8200 in about 15 minutes. If I put a 140mm fan directly over them, they can last about 25 minutes on TM5 before hitting the same temp. This is before dialing them in along with Vmem but the writing is on the wall for temps being an issue especially when I move it to the SFF case. XMP on the Patriots 8200 requires 1.45 vs 1.4 for the Teamgroup 8200 (not that it will matter in the end as I scale and tune manually but I still want to compare their full timings for comparison just to see). Teamgroup has actually somewhat usable heatsinks but in the end, I feel like i'm going to order a set of these to try and minimize heat as much as possible. If there are better heatsinks out there, please let me know. I'll work with both sets over the next few days and return the weaker set (or both if needed) which I feel is going to be the Patriots but you never know. Maybe a good, tested 8400+ set will pop up on the forums for sale in the next week or so. 🙂

You coulda put the Crocs BEHIND the box ya know? 🙂 Nice setup there @Papusan!

Whew, that looks beautiful! I've thought about picking up an EVGA 3090ti for the wife's system just to round out that final homage to EVGA with the DG-77 case.

As suspected for quite some time in the OCN forums and elsewhere and as Jufus had said for quite some time (Over a year ago he said boost Vcore in non all core was insane). All his kits he sold were locked down to all core for stability and fixed Vcore tuning which is....shockingly....what many of us have done over the years to reign in Intel's insane limits along with MB makers pushing as hard as possible so their MB would look better than their competitors.....

Testing different settings and profiles on the SP109 14900KS and it is definitely superior to my SP115 13900KS using Falkentyne's baseline testing here which I used on the SP115 13900KS but more importantly in real world testing it can do at 5.8 and 5.7 for SFF parameters what the SP115 could do at 5.6 all core. Running a 30min CB23 at 5.6 all core even on an AIO and temps never break 70c and score ~42k which is good enough for me but I like having a realistic option of 5.7 and 5.8 settings even on an AIO which will push into the 80s. Onward to memory tuning.... Yeah this pricing is very nice and bodes well for their X3D models.

Very reasonable! And it looks like AMD learned their lesson from the 7950x is that is the pricing. They are really putting their boot on Intel's neck big time and I'm loving it! Glad they did and very happy to see your work in the thread bro.