electrosoft

That's some damn good work Chew! I wonder if anyone else in the thread has hit 8600 with that level of stability along with some benchable 8800 runs, nice bro!. When all is said and done, I doubt I'll be hitting those levels, but it shows the potential of the Asrock Lightning board.

I never took the time to test cache scaling so a video like this shows minimal gains but they're still there in pockets here and there for gaming. I think I did do a few tests in WoW back with my 12900k but it didn't show much gains at all. I may retest. As we suffered through the slow death of truly upgrade enabled laptops...... 😞 https://videocardz.com/newz/socketed-cpu-laptops-and-high-end-mxm-graphics-are-fading-into-history https://www.notebookcheck.net/Socketed-mobile-CPUs-the-modular-laptop-potential-that-lived-in-the-worst-time-possible.862212.0.html

I like the diversity of laptops and desktops along with everything associated with both platforms. Even with the death basically of *new* mxm/slotted CPU laptops, every laptop has potential for hardware and software enhancements and modifications. I've ripped apart just about every BGA laptop that's crossed my path to enhance its cooling while also doing everything possible to dial in the CPU/GPUs. In summary, as long as the forums retain the heart and soul of NBR and remains the go to place for NBR refugees still wandering in and the great ever growing resources for laptops of all ilk, whatever grows and prospers up and around it works for me and then some. I'm extremely flexible and even minded (in case that isn't readily apparent). 🙂 More exposure and growth is always a welcomed addition.

The Bartlett 12 P-core model really works for me. I'd maybe settle for a 10 core. 8? I'll just turn off my e-cores and keep it moving....

Both runs with this sp109 14900KS on the Z690 Strix D4 and Asrock Z790i netted about ~40k and monstrous pull and overheating. This was pure stock, defaults out of the box settings nothing adjusted (not even memory). Both motherboards were running the newest BIOS as of July 2024. The 41k+ from my last few posts are starting the fun dial in / tuning locked to 56x / 45x while I continue dial that in as tight as possible, then move to 57x, 58x and 59x rinse/repeat to establish 4 optimal all core profiles to adjust accordingly for the SFF build with it. The asrock lets you pick from 3 microcode options in the bios which is nice. I haven't explored these yet and am running 125 atm. I don't know what MB makers are doing with the newest BIOS settings, but seeing what the D4 and Lightning did out of the box is not fixing the extreme overheating or pull. Probably a good idea. What MB and memory are you using again?

A bone, stock 14900k with no BIOS adjustments on defaults? 40k is about right....

Agreed, might as well shoot for the big dog and get a 14900k variant especially if your Alienware has a 13900HX which is basically a desktop chip slapped in there like the AMD X3D laptops (MSI and Asus). Why step backwards? It's going to vary with so many things in play, but out of box should be ~39k; and unlike our laptops, it can do it indefinitely with zero cooling issues (or it should). 🙂 Since they're all basically the same thing (13900k -> 14900KS), it will come down to cooling, tuning and silicon quality.

Um, I'm going to assume you meant to save breathe. 🙂 Fully no longer touching the sun now (max temp = 74c on AIO) but going to need to tighten it up more to qualify it for the 12.4L SFF build while finding that perfect all core vs temp range.

Sure! I always wanted to walk on the surface of the sun.... 🤣

Walking into hades vs starting to dial it in a bit (PL = 4096, ICC = 512a, LLC auto, 56x / 45x): Hades: Dialed in a bit (much more to come) to finally get at least 41k without exploding 🤣 56x / 45x:

Using the Z790i Lightning so far.... I did re-verify with DDR5 (already had checked with DDR4) to check for SA Bug (set SA to 1.35)on the SP109 and nope, no bug. I let TM5 run for awhile. Speaking of which, the new, cleaner look is very nice. Asrock read the V/F 6.2 point at 1.484 (vs 1.488 on Asus). While the Lightning has a better VRM design (14+1+1 vs 10+1 on the Edge and Asus Z790i boards) this SP109 is a furnace with these early runs. This little board unleashed I was pulling 400w and 320a on this 14900KS holy moly before throttling with this Lian-Li Galahad performance AIO which is a beast. Problem is CB23 keeps capping out around 40k. Looks like the board tops out at a -100UV which can't be right. That's laptop shenanigans. I must be missing something but I'm beat so I'll come back at it tomorrow. Playing with LLC vs PL vs UV. I might have to dial in fixed to calm this thing down. 🤣 I may have finally met my match the first time with a chip that requires a delid and/or better cooling (CL, DD, Chiller), but we'll see. 🤗

7950x will absolutely face smash the 7800X3D for encoding. I went with the best of both worlds and just grabbed the 7950X3D. Compared to the 7800X3D, you are looking at a slight performance uplift for WoW with the Non-X3D CCD turned off. I just hop into the BIOS and turn it off for gaming but you could also try to get Gamebar or PL to play nicely too. I find just turning it off works the best overall. Then I turn it back on after. I sometimes just leave it off though or forget to turn it back on. 🙂 Agreed. With that being said, a 7600x can beat a 5800X3D in gaming and it just gets better as you scale upward. 7950x is a very competent gaming chip. If you don't want to deal with PL, GB or BIOS disabling, you can't go wrong with a 7950x. @win32asmguy, I would go with a 7950X3D and get the best of both worlds. If multithreaded performance is important to you significantly, I would skip the 7800X3D especially with 7950X3D pricing as it is atm. $459.98 @ Amazon is a damn good deal. This. Holding back and slowly doling out chips to the consumers for maximum profit is old hat for Intel. Switching chipsets and even blocking older chipsets that are socket compatible from running newer chips is also classic Intel. They could learn a thing or two from AMD and not only extend the socket life (while also introducing newer chipsets for new customers or current customers if they want with QOL/upgrades) but also showing their true chip roadmaps to give buyers future assurance of chip purchases. That is one thing I always liked about AMD.

@Raiderman New BIOS 18.7.2024 dropped today: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MPG-X670E-CARBON-WIFI/support Good thing I did one last check before updating and nuking my system after retesting all my components....

Definitely an AMD focused tool that has some minimal Intel functionality. I'm more curious to try it on some of my laptops (both AMD and Intel) to see if it helps dial in some cooling profiles.

I can't imagine a 12 core no HT part but with the state of Intel these days. I'm still hoping AL surprises us all but while technically offering advanced architectures in the past, the 1st gen early versions were slower than their predecessors: P4 regressed in performance vs P3 back in the day till it got its clocks going and surpassed it... 11900k had worse MT performance than 10900k but laid the groundwork for 12th gen... We shall see. With Asus, you have to wade through their overpriced chafe to get the worthy wheat.....ugh.

This is what I've been asking for since ADL launched. Chuck the E-cores and slap on at least two more P-cores and I'm good to go giving us at least a 10900k core count and non hybrid CPU. I would snatch up a 12 core Socket 1700 CPU ASAP. Hopefully that Encore has a good binning and was not returned due to craptastic memory OC.

Funny, but I have always done all core too as my baseline vs per core tuning. I always figured what it achieves in all core is going to be more than enough for non multicore workloads. It makes it easier to tune around it too and control transient spikes that can happen in especially 2-6ish core boost. I absolutely refuse to use Asus AI/OC built in garbage. Everything was manually tuned. It was all over the map pulling all types of loads. Even testing the 14900KS on the Z690 Strix D4 briefly for verification, all that crap is turned off and just manual / default for that test to see it touch the sun before the Lightning comes in on what is now Wednesday instead of today (thanks UPS!) I will bench single thread usually out of box to see what it has and then start working on all core. I do remember dialing in my 5800X all core manually vs PBO and landing right around where PBO tended to land just more consistent. The cost was the loss of lesser core boosting. I did tune my 7800X3D w/ PBO along with memory tuning. 7950X3D I tuned the memory but have pretty much left it alone as is for some reason. 🙂 @Papusan did yo end up getting a third KS or just stuck with your K? I wish I could cap the per core boosting in the BGA laptops I have laying around to my liking but BIOS is garbage as always. Every jokebook running Intel I have will boost to thermal failure as a feature.....yay.

Nice! Mine will be here tomorrow so I'm looking forward to getting it on the test bench and spelunking around in the BIOS to see what it can do for me. Lightning dethroned the Edge for Jufes's top ITX pick: Wish I could have found an open box, but seeing as Amazon doesn't really deal with Asrock anymore directly, that basically means none would appear on the Warehouse. 😞 Speaking of Jufes, he posits it is the 2 core preferred insane boosting and voltage slamming through the chips that is causing degradation:

I figured you letting the R batch go and picking up a few retail 14900KS chips was because the delidding just wasn't worth it for your needs and setup. You ran delidded and relidded chips for quite a while before moving to delidded completely and now you're back to stock sTIM. I get that completely. I used to delid all my chips and relid them since 6th gen and now I rarely delid except for certain circumstances (like the last 12th gen I delidded to try and improve thermals in the NH55 laptop). That was a case of the heat transferred faster allowing the chip to run cooler but the chip was so hot anyhow and the laptop heatsink so small that I ended up at the same thermal limits just a little slower than before the delid. 🙂 --- The better cooling you have, the more silicon variance can be compensated for in regards to performance. When you run AIOs, air coolers along with more thermally challenging environments, SP rating definitely comes into play. I have yet to *ever* have a lower rated SP chip outperform a higher rated SP in chip since really using it as a metric since 10th gen. Even when blind testing chips and ranking them on lets say an MSI board then subsequently picking up an Asus board and testing the SP, the SP has always fallen in line with my testing results on a non SP enabled board. IMC is important and now a valid meta, but I am going to want the chip first and foremost perform as advertised and not go thermonuclear on me on an AIO and then IMC comes into play. The goal is chip performance vs thermals then 8000+ tight as possible. --- I can see your view of taking a whack at 1-2 chips and calling it a day and letting the chips fall where they may. With your cooling setup, you will always get decent performance at least. I'm waiting for AL vs 9800X3D/9950X3D showdown before I buy anything else. I'm quite content with my 7950X3D setup and it's all about 14900KS vs binned 7800X3D in WoW right now especially with the Xpac dropping on August 23rd. If 14900KS tuned with Intel APO enabled beats my 7950X3D, I have no problem swapping in Intel and moving the 7950X3D to the wife and replacing her 12900k setup or dropping the 7950X3D into my daughter's Team Red build and upgrading her 7600x paired with the 7900XTX. That would be a monster upgrade. ---- Good, extended reply bro. Greatly appreciated! 🙂

Any 12th, 13th or 14th i9 is better than 10980xe single and for gaming. Multi you're looking at a 10980XE being slightly behind a 12900k. 12900k will run the coolest and has zero problems but 13th and 14th gen are hit or miss it seems. Most of us have had no problems except maybe SA Bug for a few. 12900k for $245 new is pretty sweet. You get a serious gaming uplift and almost equal MT performance. It is the clear winner bang/buck. 13900k really stretches its lead. If I were you, I would just grab a 13900k and dial it in and reap the savings. Let's be honest: 13900k = 13900ks = 14900k = 14900ks. Depends on what you want to do. What kind of DDR5 did you get?

After watching the crapstorm of 14900ks chips drop during the first month over in the OC forums, I didn't even try. @tps3443 continues to have the magic touch and tried two and went SP99 and SP108 and called it a wrap. 🙂 I'm sure you regret delidding your R-batch @tps3443 and in hindsight would have just continued to run it stock lid in exchange for greatly reduced maintenance. 🙂 After binning multiples 10th through 12th gen and doing the "return/sell for a slight loss cha cha slide", I just didn't have it in me to do it again with 13th and 14th. I just waited for two decent specimens to pop up at retail or below and snatched them up.

Nice! Bodes well for my incoming Z790I Lightning....thanks for this bro. Let me know if you found any idiosyncrasies with the Z790I Lightning vs other Z790 boards you tested or was it "business as usual" 🙂 6400 in sync will require a decent chip with a really good IMC. I just dialed in 6000 (aka the sweet spot) for D2D and I'm good to go. I'm running 28-35-35-48 on 2x32GB A-die so I know you have room most likely to dial them in even more. Only a few times did I run a laptop as my main. I can't imagine not having a desktop. Once you get used to the flexibility of a desktop and enhanced cooling along with quieter thermals while gaming there's no looking back. Outside of benching/gaming, my desktop is whisper quiet. But with that being said, when I'm on the go I do like decent power. Not outlandish, but decent. I think that's why I'm taking another crack at an SFF to take with me that is even lighter and more portable with a super lightweight 18-23" display and wireless KB/M. The Cougar and Hyte were just too big and bulky even without anything in them for my ideal goal. This S450 is going to be a fun challange with the 14900K SP109 in it. The big hit will be those companies that lose faith and jump ship to AMD. It is hard to win back companies once they migrate to a new infrastructure as some have started to do. Intel had their last hurrah stretching Skylake all the way through 10th gen (which had its own issues) then 11th gen Frankenchip that regressed a bit. 12th gen was a rebirth for Intel as they took the lead across the board and the chips generally worked very well and then they pulled a super 10th gen oooopsie and pushed the architecture to hard and here we are now with 13th and 14th gen having issues. With that being stated, I ran my 13900ks for several months as my main desktop and had zero problems with it. I even lugged it around a bit in a SFF and it provided nothing but top notch performance so as always YMMV and most of us are more detail oriented than others when it comes to hardware but still it is clearly a problem.... Maybe AL will surprise us all and bring the high heat both ST and MT. I'm still holding out a dash of hope.

Welcome to Team Red! That is a really solid build and the 7900 GRE to me is the ultimate sweet spot for AMD 7000 series cards this series similar to the 4070 Super for price:performance except even better. 7800X3D and tuned up 6000 G2 will have you performing nicely! 7800X3D is definitely faster than the 12900KS and you will need a nicely tuned 13900k/14900k running 8000+ to give a 7800X3D a run for its money. I love laptops but for my main gaming rig it has to be a desktop. Last time I was laptop only was when I ran a P870DM w/ 980 desktop class GPU. Then the 1080ti dropped and I ended up going back to desktops for my main rig. Nope, not yet but I have it downloaded. My system is due for a clean install so my objective is to upgrade the BIOS tune it back up and give the rig a clean install all in one shot. It is a valid claim, but I think a lot of it was/is third party adapters along with improper insertion or not heading the warming signs. One of the very clear warning signs is intermittent black screens out of nowhere. Even I had a few and those few times immediately reseated my stock Suprim X 4090 Liquid cable and they went right away. Each time it happened I had been working inside my system. Now when I work inside of it, I always really press down to make sure it is fully inserted and then some and no problems. I definitely have a slight curve in my cable because it's impossible to not have one with the way the cables have to run back without an adapter. I've been running my 4090 for 18 months now no problems. I flat out won't use third party adapters. I stick with the tentacle or in my future case the stock MSI 1300 12VHPWR adapter.

I wish! Definitely the AIO. If they were $116 I would have grabbed a few. 🙂 I picked one up via Newegg via eBay for $249.99 so I could get back 5%. They're on sale right now for Neweggs annual Fantastadeal (or whatever they call it) extravaganza.

Asrock Z790i Lightning ordered and on its way 8200 sticks should be here tomorrow SP109 14900ks waiting patiently after dipping its toe into DDR4 land... I won't need the SFF built out and complete for over a month so that gives me plenty of time to set it up in my test case and run all types of benchmarks swapping the 7900xtx and 4090 back and forth between the 14900ks and 7950X3D in binned 7800X3D mode. Debating on taking a chance on a Lian Li Galahad II Performance 360mm to replace my EVGA CLC 360mm since it seems to outclass everything outside of custom water but V1 and some V2 have well documented pump issues. I ended up snagging a new one on Amazon for $116. Looks like they're on sale at the moment and just about every review I've come across puts it at #1. It will replace the EVGA CLC 360mm as my test bench AIO after 3.5yrs of faithful service. The Lian Li just seems to outclass everything at full tilt atm. Hopefully it is at worst a late V2 and at best a V3.