electrosoft

1 minute ago, win32asmguy said:

Yep. It is already delidded so I can use the copper IHS from the Rockit kit.

 

The final bid was less than I expected. 540usd seems like a great price for what it is.

Sometimes a good deal slips through the cracks and you're able to have good timing. I love it when that happens. Hopefully it gives you better results in the stock range to eeek out a little more performance.

Did you ever pick up an Asus motherboard to qualify chips on the desktop for comparison?

I picked up Fallout 76 deluxe for $15 with the sale price as one of my buds and his wife play pretty religiously so I figured it would be something new to try while I wait for Dragonflight.

1 hour ago, jaybee83 said:

be sure to post a direct link to his post on this! the more info the better! 😁

https://www.overclock.net/threads/overclocking-adl-12900k-etc-results-bins-and-discussion.1794706/post-29006548

😀

28 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

kool man, take your time!

 

btw guys, what do you think about smth like the TG contact frame? GN did one of their fantastic, super accurate reviews and found on average a 7C drop in temps, thats basically equivalent to a delid!

 

 

would it be possible space wise and mounting wise to install such a contact frame on our NH55 socket? hmmmm, i am definitely intrigued by this...

I was wondering this just yesterday since reading @Falkentyne's excellent post over on the ocn forums using one of these. It seems like a win win in any scenario. This would especially apply to you @jaybee83 since you've already had the motherboard out numerous times. Check to see if you have enough room and give it a whirl!

3 hours ago, Talon said:

 

I've had my 1600w T2 from EVGA for a couple years now when I got it as a bundle/coupon offer with a GPU for like $180 or something. Insane value for a such an amazing PSU. I got my email for the KPE 3090 Ti, but I decided to skip this one. My FTW3 3090 Ti is a powerhouse, I don't overclock much right now, and 4000 series is on the the very near horizon. Hell I'm not even sure I need a 40 series card since 3090s are already so powerful for all resolutions outside of 4K or 8K gaming. I'll likely grab one just to mess around with it, but for gaming I can't see it being necessary for me. 

True and I didn't have too many problems with the FTW3 3090ti I had for about a week. Boosted to 2070 gaming and temps never went over 65c. Definitely not quiet though. Uplift was there just not enough to justify the $2k+tax price tag vs my 3080. I'm keeping an eye out on prices and ebay though as they continue to tumble.

Problem with the KPE 3090ti is price, no block (for those who wc) and 4000 series right around the corner but the upside is a very limited run (if that's your thing), One of the if not only cards designed with dual power connectors and 100% MLCC poscap design but I can't see it outpacing what is now a $1650 FTW3 3090ti that much in performance (well $1850 w/ PSU). I do wish they had offered it with a T2 instead of P2 at that price.

I fully expect the 4090 to smash the 3090ti by at least 30% if not more.

4 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

Well it looks my delid is postponed a bit. Ended up picking up a high binned SP104 P-core, SP81 e-core from eBay in hopes it is a bit better than the my 12900k from Newegg and can close the gap with performance I saw on the Strix Scar 17 SE with 12950HX.

Nice! Hopefully it will extend your X15 even further! If it is the one I think I saw it is already delidded too right? Knock out two birds with one stone (Delidded and binned).

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

 

 

 

Yep. The OG 3090KP was fairly expensive originally. But damn, it has held up super well. And It was a good value at MSRP when we were all under brain washing lol. 
 

I’m keeping mine, I’ve had it for over a year now. 
 

HOPEFULLY these amazing prices hold steady when RTX4000 series rolls around. 

 

True, if I find a KPE around 1100 I might have to (re) pick one up again. All the cards that passed my way during the Pandemic and Mining craze the KPE 3090 was easily my favorite.

KPE 3090ti is truly a limited run so it transcends normal 3090ti parameters and falling prices but $2500+tax is a tough pill to swallow.

I picked up a 3090ti FTW3 but ended up returning it after a week as it just didn't bring the value for the $2k+ it cost IMHO but a $1200 3090ti FTW3 is a different story.

8 hours ago, Reciever said:

That is exactly that my friend 🙂 

 

P750ZM w/ P750DM motherboard w/ 9700F and GTX 1080

 

I just finished attaching 2 server heatsinks to the CPU and GPU but the fans I have at the moment dont push enough CFM's to prevent heat soak so tomorrow I will swap them out with the half mass sister heatsinks

Nice! Are you posting your progress and outlier work on this one somewhere in the forums?

4 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Hey everyone, I was notified that I can buy a 3090Ti Kingpin Hybrid from EVGA if anyone is interested. 
 

Just figured I’d give someone else an opportunity to buy one. I believe it’s $1,999? I already own a 3090 Kingpin Hydro Copper, so I don’t really have a need for it. Well, let me rephrase that. “I have a need” but, I can’t spend that much to fill the need lol. 
 

😀

 

 

Anyways, have a great 4th of July weekend everyone. 

$2499.99 + tax.

Almost 2x the cost of used KPE 3090's on ebay (and falling)....yikes.

KPE 3090ti's are dropping first wave to queue members and auto-notify is gone so Jacob was right when he said limited.

$2499.99 w/ 1600 PSU no exceptions. It's a bundle deal.

If you didn't queue up you're SOL (if you wanted one).

https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=24G-P5-4998-KT

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Thanks to yo all. I’m on vacation as bro Fox said. But I’m sick due my bad health. Can’t almost not hold an phone or look in the laptop. I will post when my health is better. God bless you all. 
 

Bro Papusan 

Speedy recovery brother! 🙏

2 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

I just bought an excellent sample 10900K from brother @Mr. Fox. I can't wait for it to arrive so I can start tuning it to see how well I can make it perform in my X170SM-G!

 

@electrosoft If you're still doing testing with your Silicon Lottery 10900K and LTX Golden Sample, we can compare results and see what chip was able to deliver the best results in the X170SM-G.

Nice! And most definitely. See where it lands you at -0.050 - 0.100 uv pull and temps to get an idea of draw and bleed. Also see how it compares versus your current 10900k. I haven't had a chance to really do much of anything with my X170SM-G in weeks with so many other projects on the table I've been churning through (and work).

If you have access to a Z490/Z590 motherboard, you can also use my desktop binning chart from five samples I posted earlier:

27 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Things don't feel right without Brother @Papusan posting stuff in our community. I really miss him, but he is on vacation right now. Hurry back, bud. 🙂

 

I was just thinking about him and his crocs wondering where he went. Good to know he is absent for a good reason!

EVGA finally feeling the overstock glut and having barn burner prices on EVERYTHING (right now elite members only for a few days then everybody). Even their 1600w T2 is under $200 brand new for this sale.

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yeah, crappy average gamerboy stuff. Sadly, better than the first one. The first one was  extra crappy.

 

I got it new on fleaBay for $650 sealed retail box. The guy had 6 of them and has a well-established store.

 

SP91 overall, P-99, E-76. I think that translates into a higher SP rating by 12900K standards.

 

Edit: I think this is going to work out just fine. Massive improvement and slightly better bin than my excellent 12900K. I will move it to the benching rig and delid it and move the 12900K to Banshee in a couple of days.

 

 

 

Good price for a new 12900ks and that P-99 = ~P107-109 on a 12900k. The SP94 12900ks I had was rated exactly the same as my SP91 (P102) yet it was clearly superior both in IMC and pull/clocks but both hit a wall on my LF II 420 at 5.4 all core.

1 hour ago, win32asmguy said:

Got my Rockitcool delid kit in, have a quick question: Is there a shelf life on liquid metal compound? I have some Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra I purchased in 2017 (for delidding a 6700K in the Tornado F5, that brings back some memories). I can use it for the relid if its good and still considered effective. Or if it would be better I could get some Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut from Micro Center over the weekend.

As long as it was sealed and no air leaked in consistently it should be ok. If it appears excessively runny and grainy it may have degraded as I had that happen with an older tube of CLU a few years ago and the results were subpar. I ended up getting a fresh tube of silver king lm and it was night and day.

59 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yeah, 100% the CPU. Same memory sticks boot fine at 4800 CL19 with a different CPU. I can also run the cache way higher. This is with BIOS defaults except for the RAM settings.

 

This one is going up for sale on eBay.

 

Now we're talking! (Heath ledger Joker voice 😁)

That CPU is pure garbage. For joe average it will do just fine though. It also shows why 11th and especially 12th priorities for many have shifted to fishing for superior IMCs and ring fixed around 5.2 all core and go from there.

Just noticed you picked up a 12900ks, nice. new or used? What SP? P/E?

16 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thank you for checking. I am running 1504. I am 99% sure it is the CPU silicon quality because it is consistent with your experience. Yes, I did try letting ASUS optimize the settings with XMP I and that did not make any difference other than the memory performance was slightly worse than my custom settings.

 

Edit: looking at your latency, it appears you can also boot with 1:1 (Gear 1) and this system will not boot unless I leave it set to Auto (which is 1:2 - Gear 2).

 

The E-cores are 2 points higher than my better 12900K, but the P-cores are 9 points lower, and the overall SP is 5 points lower than my better 12900K. I think the lower P-core SP rating is what is holding this one back on memory and cache clocks.

 

I was 99.99% sure you ran the tables checking everything possible but I've found myself in the past and present letting Asus work its magic to get sticks to suddenly work but with the most horrific latency just to make sure it was possible before returning to manually dialing them in.

Yep, booting G1 4200. That's so odd it will only boot G2 for 4000. Where does the system tap out for G1? 3600? The 1504 update did improve stability and compatibility for the sticks I bought from you (those are the ones I ran 4200 G1) but some may still be problematic. What kit is it?

I think you'll get clarity as you mentioned before when you plug in your better binned 12900k. You will quickly find out if it is the motherboard or cpu.

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thanks for the intel. Based on your experience, I suspect it is this mediocre 12900K. Probably also explains 43x cache being the limit. Cinebench also crashes with cache at 43x, but completes without error at 42x cache.

 

Maybe when I am feeling more ambitious I will try my cherry 12900K in the Strix mobo and see if it fares better. Those same memory sticks ran like a Swiss watch at 4500 CL16 as my daily driver RAM overclock on the Z490 Dark and 10900K. 

 

It is interesting that I can run them with such tight timings at 4000, even using 1T, but it will not even try to POST above 4000 with any loose timings and higher voltage. Yet the same RAM would only boot with 2T on the Z490 Dark. On the Strix Z690 it is like it instantly hits a brick wall if I try to go above 4000. I bet this also explains the negative reviews on the D4 where some people complained about it having memory issues with known good RAM. I bet those people also had a crappy 12th Gen sample. Most of the reviews are either excellent or horrible.

 

Just for shiggles, here is the review that I left for it.

 

Micro Center Intel Core i9-12900K Desktop Processor 16 (8P+8E) Cores up to 5.2 GHz Unlocked LGA1700 Desktop Processor with ASUS ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming WiFi D4 Motherboard

I went back and checked my data logs for those 12900k's I binned and confirmed the SP81 and SP89 couldn't do 4000 even but did manage 3866 tops not 3733 so it could be the CPU itself. Definitely check your better bin in there and see how it handles it.

Did you try setting XMP1 and let Asus "optimize" it for you then bump the frequency only manually up to 4133 just to see? I find when Asus "optimizes" it for you that you have a little more leeway in regards to some settings versus XMP II or manually tuning from the ground up.

I just went and did a Q&D settings check for frequency and I was able to boot and run Aida @ 4200. I'm getting much better results frequency wise on 1504 with my SP91 12900k than I did on 1404 as on 1404 these sticks wouldn't break 4000 and the 2x8gb sticks stuck at 4133. Now they're doing 4200 (so far). Which BIOS are you running?

I read the review  lol. I like the ending part where you dump all over Armory Fail. 😄

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

@electrosoft and @Rage Set - what kind of memory clocks are you able to get with your Strix D4?
 

I cannot get anything higher than 4000 to boot with any timings and voltage. This 4000 CL15-15-15-30 1T configuration seems to be about the best it is capable of achieving. Kind of disappointing on the memory front. Maybe this is to be expected? Maybe SK Hynix preference is 12th Gen overall and not only DDR5?

Goofy enough, the same sticks run perfectly stable at this configuration, which refused to even make an effort to boot.

 

I also cannot run the cache higher than 43x or Windows fails to boot with a BSOD no matter how much cache voltage I give it. It runs 43x totally stable and 44x instantly has issues. 

 

@Talon am I remembering correctly that you had a CPU that wouldn't do over like 43x cache even though it had a decent SP rating?

4266 2x8, 4133 2x16 but that was on 1404 with the 12900ks. I'll test 1504 just to see how high I can boot later with the SP91 12900k

Since the IMCs are independent, there is no correlation between DDR4 and DDR5. It could be your MB or your IMC especially if your DDR4 sticks are known good to post higher gear 1. I know a few 12900k chips I was testing petered out at 3733 (SP81 and SP89 I believe). I initially thought it was the motherboard since I knew it wasn't the memory (8GB B-die sticks 4000 15-15-15 rated) but then my current chip handled 4000 no problem so it was actually the 12900k chips themselves.

De8auer and a massive OC open competition (all CPUs welcome) along with all tiers of cooling and lots of prizes.

I didn't even know De8auer was part of a group that bought hwbot lol:

1 hour ago, win32asmguy said:

Yeah, sent it back to Asus. Windows 10 driver support was not complete, and Linux had issues with running out of memory when booting and couldn't detect drives reliably if two were installed.

 

I want to try a Precision 7770 which is about the same price as the Asus (~3500USD) for a 12950HX / 3080Ti / 32GB / FHD config. It is probably less performance for CPU+GPU loads but it may be close for CPU only and the OS support should be much better not to mention it being much better suited for using at the office.

 

If only Clevo would publish a bios update for the NH55JNNQ enabling the MUX feature so I could have all displays internal and external driven by the same GPU.

Well at least you gave it a proper run through and looksy for comparison. What was your final take vs your NH55JNNQ? Are there any reviews up of the Precision 7770?

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I’m thinking about another 3090 Kingpin honestly. They are water cooled with 360 AIO, and perform the same as a 3090Ti FE. With prices the 3090kp hybrids have become pretty affordable. They are no longer $3,500 LOLZ. 
 

3090Kp= 40.3 Tflops 

3090Ti= 40.0 Tflops

 

If prices keep dropping like this on used models so am I or a Strix 3090. If I can get a NEW 3090ti for $1539.00 everything adjusts down for me mentally both new and especially used. 3080ti's new are ~$1100; 3090 new are ~$1500.

Pre-owned KPE 3090s are sub $1500 on fleabay in BIN fashion and a few in auction format at ~$1100 atm. I'd say you might be able to get one for $1250.

Strix 3090's are right around $1250 average sale price too.

Prices will keep dropping.

Companies like Gigabyte get it and are slashing prices massively on all their cards vs be stubborn and sit on inventory.

I'll wait till I find a hidden gem around $1k for a 3090 and pick one up as prices continue to crash.

I waited so long for the 6900xt to drop that eventually the 6950xt was announced and I didn't want it anymore.

22 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Even the worse one was "average" and here is one for sale like that one on overclock.net by a well respected member of that community and HWBOT.

 

https://www.overclock.net/threads/fs-12900k.1799019/#post-28999766

Wow, that is a fantastic deal. Probably some hesitation because that is a rev 1 apex board.

7 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

You can probably get a similar CB23 result from the smaller version that retails for 3.2K with a sub 3k street price to follow soon. I would also expect for it to achieve an up to 14.5k graphics score with Timespy as the GE76 can do that, too:

https://www.3dmark.com/search#advanced?test=spy P&cpuId=&gpuId=1434&gpuCount=0&gpuType=ALL&deviceType=ALL&storageModel=ALL&memoryChannels=0&country=&scoreType=graphicsScore&hofMode=true&showInvalidResults=false&freeParams=&minGpuCoreClock=&maxGpuCoreClock=&minGpuMemClock=&maxGpuMemClock=&minCpuClock=&maxCpuClock=

 

Goes to show that paying the premium for the 12900HX and 3080 Ti is mostly a waste due to the thermal and noise constraints of the design.

And it also shows that no matter how much power a system can use manufacturers almost always like to underspec the power envelope and cooling even when total power consumption has gone down a lot compared to previous designs.

 

And before somebody says that total power will almost always be lower in games or real world applications there is also something to be said for running a system that does not always have to be at the limit - cruising at 80% or less is much more relaxing and less loud and hot plus it lets the laptop live longer.

 

As for its fan and cooling design it looks to me like there are too many fans and too little cooling. I would wager a guess that especially with this compromised (ultrathin) form factor three fans and a vapor chamber would have resulted in better cooling and less noise - maybe for the next model.

 

 

 

 

Agreed, the actual performance for GPU is extremely close to the 12900h and that noise under load is insane.

I think the idea was to dissipate the heat at a much higher rate to compensate for the thin and light heatsink design. It does work to a degree but again that thing under load is ridiculously loud.

It was usable in silent mode but the fps did take a major hit.

One thing I do like about MSI is their almost desktop level BIOS on their laptops once you open it up with the command sequence. They do this on all their models and the only thing that holds anything back is the CPU or chipset limitations. I wish other manufacturers did this with their laptops.

I still can't get over those fans....

Are there any comparisons to their phase change thermal pad and stock tims/lm for comparison anywhere?