*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

This is kind of interesting.

 

[Raiderman]

39 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

This is kind of interesting.

 

Thats not kind of interesting, that is cool af. Silent cooling at 1 watt of power while dissipating 5 watts of heat. I can see this as next gen cooling.

 

Edit: At the end of the video he says that these will be installed on products by the end of the year.

[Clamibot]

53 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

This is kind of interesting.

 

 

Given enough development with this, we could see the return of real desktop performance within laptops. We enthusiasts can get what we want and the thin and light crowd can get what they want at the same time!

 

I think the best parts about this vibration cooler are the cooler density vs a fan, and the fact that it's very quiet.

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, Raiderman said:

Thats not kind of interesting, that is cool af. Silent cooling at 1 watt of power while dissipating 5 watts of heat. I can see this as next gen cooling.

 

Edit: At the end of the video he says that these will be installed on products by the end of the year.

Very nice tech. And the OEM will use it for all it's worth. With todays castrating of max power consumption for next gen laptops (see pict below) they have to steal the needed power from some places (the laptops will still need some fans to cool MB components). From the GPU or the Cpu?😀 Or maybe remove one of the few remaining M.2 slot from the MB?🤔 And with new tech to increase cooling performance they can continue shrink the Chassis thickness (The guy from the tech company said it even himself - Make "thinner" Jokebooks). The goal is still try beat Apple in sleeker design and chassis size. I see it as innovation to the worse for the consumers. In same way as the innovative awful modern tech as Dynamic boost and AMD's equals (SmartShift) to try make laptops thinner and lighter. Yep, it will be a innovation to the worse.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

It does not look like it is easy to find information on 4090 engineering differences. I do not know why the specifications pages (even on the OEM web sites) are not making mention of things like power phases and clearly identifying dual versus single BIOS models.

 

I found this table where a person is compiling the data from sources where it can be found. It is very puzzling that the manufacturers are not advertising the detail, especially on the higher-end models. For example, if you go to the product page for the 4090 Suprim X they say nothing about the power handling capacity of their flagship. -????-

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1461611-rtx-4090-vrm-meta-analysis-and-feaib-comparison/ 

Do they really think that every person dropping a gigantic wad of cash on their overpriced stuff is that stupid and does not care about how much effort (or lack thereof) went into building it?

---

Here is something from a channel I haven't seen before. Small subscriber base, but actually a pretty good piece. This channel will likely end up being successful if this is the quality he typically puts out. (I have not watched any other videos from this channel yet to know.)

 

Interesting how poorly the 7900XT fares against the 4080. I expected the 4080 to be better, but not by such a wide margin.

 

 

 

[1610ftw]

6 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

Given enough development with this, we could see the return of real desktop performance within laptops. We enthusiasts can get what we want and the thin and light crowd can get what they want at the same time!

 

I think the best parts about this vibration cooler are the cooler density vs a fan, and the fact that it's very quiet.

 

We: WOW - we could see the return of desktop performance, more real DTRs, etc.

Industry: Let's make everything lighter and thinner with the same mediocre performance.

 

It already happens with vapor chamber designs - excellent technology but usually not used in top of the line notebooks. 

Reserving it to the slimmest of the slim is something that MSI has done last year and they continue to do so. Gone (for now) are the days where a Clevo P870 used a huge vapor chamber to dissipate up to 400W from two GTX1080.

 

But yeah, this would have the potential to do great things, I also like the lack of dust buildup - that is definitely a big benefit with the average closed down BGA book.

 

From what that guy said it will probably be only able to cool slim/ultrabooks this year- they are a very young company and after that little time it is great they can bring anything to market. In the long run if that catches on and the industry is uncharacteristically doing the right thing this could be exciting.

[1610ftw]

6 hours ago, Papusan said:

Very nice tech. And the OEM will use it for all it's worth. With todays castrating of max power consumption for next gen laptops (see pict below) they have to steal the needed power from some places (the laptops will still need some fans to cool MB components). From the GPU or the Cpu?😀 Or maybe remove one of the few remaining M.2 slot from the MB?🤔 And with new tech to increase cooling performance they can continue shrink the Chassis thickness (The guy from the tech company said it even himself - Make "thinner" Jokebooks). The goal is still try beat Apple in sleeker design and chassis size. I see it as innovation to the worse for the consumers. In same way as the innovative awful modern tech as Dynamic boost and AMD's equals (SmartShift) to try make laptops thinner and lighter. Yep, it will be a innovation to the worse.

 

Saw that a few days ago and thought about posting it but I kind of expect the same outcome as you so I did not even bother.

 

It is sad that we have seen this so often that now we automatically expect the worst. M2 slots are a great example - we used to have an optical drive and 2 2.5" drives in top of the line laptops so now we should easily see at least 4 of those m2 slots, right? And for bigger workstation laptops maybe 4 x m2 slots and 1 x 2.5" slot for a cheaper 2.5" SSD, right?

Nope - down to at most 2 x m2 slots by now for all but three laptops in this generation so far (1 x 4, 2 x 3) - pathetic.

[Mr. Fox]

16 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

Saw that a few days ago and thought about posting it but I kind of expect the same outcome as you so I did not even bother.

 

It is sad that we have seen this so often that now we automatically expect the worst. M2 slots are a great example - we used to have an optical drive and 2 2.5" drives in top of the line laptops so now we should easily see at least 4 of those m2 slots, right? And for bigger workstation laptops maybe 4 x m2 slots and 1 x 2.5" slot for a cheaper 2.5" SSD, right?

Nope - down to at most 2 x m2 slots by now for all but three laptops in this generation so far (1 x 4, 2 x 3) - pathetic.

Everyone have a barf bag within reach and stay within eyeshot of the nearest toilet. Soon we will see the industry advance beyond stupidity. It is inevitable when the industry is run by morbidly idiotic people that are incapable of doing anything good or acceptable. In fact, it would be illogical to expect anything different as long as the same people are allowed to continue screwing everything up. The only solution to stopping the damage is to remove the people causing it, compel them to find another career that is tolerant of their faults and replace them with alternatives that will pull their heads out and do the right thing.

 

Next up from their bottomless pit of personal computing filth, "gaming" turdbooks with soldered NVMe with an embedded OS, soldered RAM and "upgradable" storage in the form of flash memory a la Chromebook.

---

I recently snagged an extraordinarily good deal on a small portable IPS dislay that I can use for business travel so I am not encumbered by a single display on my laptop. I figured I could also put it to good use at home on my pleasure rig. I have a few finishing touches to add, but here is my almost-done AIDA64 sensor panel to use on it.

 

[Raiderman]

Getting closer to cracking the 40K mark in CB 23. Need to do some tuning on the ram. Today is shot though, we are having an open house today, (selling). Wish I could run this in Win 7.

 

[Mr. Fox]

38 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

Getting closer to cracking the 40K mark in CB 23. Need to do some tuning on the ram. Today is shot though, we are having an open house today, (selling).

 

Good luck on the sale. Are you moving locally, or to a totally new city/state? It's a real bummer that you're going to be affected by high interest rates in Brandon's dystopian social and economic cesspool. Hopefully, that will be remedied in the next couple of years and you can refi after all of his wrongs are righted.

[Raiderman]

Just moving across town. Much like tech, its time for an upgrade. Many builders and their finance teams are offering lower interest rates, (incentives) so hopefully we can get in on some of that. Supposedly we are in a "buyers" market, but the problem is most people buying need to sell first...haha. Being in Idaho, (very red) is a luxury that we are enjoying, so we wont be moving out of state any time soon. My wife being from the Philippines, we did build a house there, for her family, and us when I retire.

 

Getting ready to board our 12 hour ferry ride to where her parents lived. 2017

 

 

[Raiderman]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Everyone have a barf bag within reach and stay within eyeshot of the nearest toilet. Soon we will see the industry advance beyond stupidity. It is inevitable when the industry is run by morbidly idiotic people that are incapable of doing anything good or acceptable. In fact, it would be illogical to expect anything different as long as the same people are allowed to continue screwing everything up. The only solution to stopping the damage is to remove the people causing it, compel them to find another career that is tolerant of their faults and replace them with alternatives that will pull their heads out and do the right thing.

 

Next up from their bottomless pit off personal computing filth, "gaming" turdbooks with soldered NVMe with an embedded OS, soldered RAM and "upgradable" storage in the form of flash memory a la Chromebook.

---

I recently snagged an extraordinarily good deal on a small portable IPS dislay that I can use for business travel so I am not encumbered by a single display on my laptop. I figured I could also put it to good use at home on my pleasure rig. I have a few finishing touches to add, but here is my almost-done AIDA64 sensor panel to use on it.

 

I'm digging the little 14"? Monitor for your system stats!

[Mr. Fox]

59 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

I'm digging the little 14"? Monitor for your system stats!

Thank you. Yes, it is an impressive product. Much better quality than I expected. 15-inch IPS with dual type-c and HDMI, metal housing with VESA. Comes with a nice folding hardcover for travel (like a tablet cover). Works nice as a monitoring panel, too.

 

 

[Raiderman]

I wish we could find some cool stuff like this in the states at reasonable prices.

US $62.23  53%OFF | 8.8 Inch Long Strip LCD Screen HDMI-compatible USB Port 480X1920 Temperature Display with Bracket for Windows Linux Raspberry Pi
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNlNJ7g

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thank you. Yes, it is an impressive product. Much better quality than I expected. 15-inch IPS with dual type-c and HDMI, metal housing with VESA. Comes with a nice folding hardcover for travel (like a tablet cover). Works nice as a monitoring panel, too.

 

 

Nice small screen bro Fox. I look more after a smaller screen that I can put inside the chassis. There is several options but difficult to see what I want. Around 5.5" up to max 8" size. No need for a bigger one only for some HW info/statistics.

 

Btw... This is nice. Got notice in email from mods on the bot removed one of my subs. And they don't even understand how some of the benchmarks works in Futuremark software with the newer HW. And why pick people from the middle in the leadeboard and not the top benchers? Is this what they mean.... Clearer signals (see red box)? That if you are the elite benchers your bench results won't be blocked? And if they do, they will do it last? This is a mess. 

 

[Mr. Fox]

I see the HWBOT Nazis are arbitrarily deleting your 4090 benchmark's Brother @Papusanjust as they did with Brother @johnksss 4090 scores. Seems like the golden boys have decided to deal with competition by not allowing it. It is really sad to see what a pile of crap that place is turning into.

 

Maybe the idea is to make it a shill mill for manufacturers to send their boutique modded products that nobody else can buy to their sponsored marketing zombies to fake everyone out with results they will never achieve if they buy the same product.

---

Edit: I saw that and commented at EXACTLY the same time you were posting it.

3 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Nice small screen bro Fox. I look more after a smaller screen that I can put into the chassis. There is several options but difficult to what I want. Around 5.5" up to max 8". No need for a bigger one only for some HW info/statistics.

 

Btw... Nice. Got notice in email mods on the bot removed one of my subs. And they don't even understand how some of the sub benchmarks works inFuturemark software with the newer HW. And why pick people from the leadeboard from middle ranking and not the top benchers? Is this what they mean.... Clearer signals (see red box)? That if you are the elite benchers your bench results won't be blocked? And if they do, they will do it last? This is a mess. 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Mr. Fox
added info

[Papusan]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I see the HWBOT Nazis are arbitrarily deleting your 4090 benchmark's Brother @Papusanjust as they did with Brother @johnksss 4090 scores. Seems like the golden boys have decided to deal with competition by not allowing it. It is really sad to see what a pile of crap that place is turning into.

 

Maybe the idea is to make it a shill mill for manufacturers to send their boutique modded products that nobody else can buy to their sponsored marketing zombies to fake everyone out with results they will never achieve if they buy the same product.

Yep, the golden boys... 

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5130022_splave_3dmark___fire_strike_extreme_geforce_rtx_4090_49186_marks

 

Can have their results on the leaderboard... https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/83861339

 

Even the blind man can see that Futuremark don't offer ECC monitoring in some of their older benchmarks... 

 

 

And 4080 as in the 4000 series cards have same GDDR6X vram but don't offer ECC monitoring. And they still have to bench with it enabled, LOOL

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

Just now, Papusan said:

Yep, the golden boys... 

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5130022_splave_3dmark___fire_strike_extreme_geforce_rtx_4090_49186_marks

 

Can have their results on the leaderboard... https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/83861339

 

Even the blind man can see that Futuremark don't offer ECC monitoring in somne of their older benchmarks... 

 

 

 

We should start spamming their submissions using the report feature to ask them to remove the scores and start treating their golden boys the same as they treat the peasants.

[Papusan]

 

18 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

We should start spamming their submissions using the report feature to ask them to remove the scores and start treating their golden boys the same as they treat the peasants.

Removing results that is valid as my 3DM Fire Srike Extreme and let the top benchers have the leaderbord for themself won't send a clearer signal to the others (see pict above in my previous post)...

 

Edit... In red.

 

 

Or just start from the top and remove Futuremark benches that have the info clear as glass. See pict below. 'again why start in the middle of the leaderboard? There has to be a reason they do it this way.

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5130021_splave_3dmark___time_spy_extreme_geforce_rtx_4090_21023_marks

 

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/83861241

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

20 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Removing results that is valid as my 3DM Fire Srike Extreme and let the top benchers have the leaderbord for themself won't send a clearer signal to the others (see pict above in my previous post)...

 

Edit... In red.

 

 

Or just start from the top and remove Futuremark benches that have the info clear as glass. See pict below. 'again why start in the middle of the leaderboard? There has to be a reason they do it this way.

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5130021_splave_3dmark___time_spy_extreme_geforce_rtx_4090_21023_marks

 

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/83861241

 

 

 

See my updated post. https://community.hwbot.org/topic/221655-mandatory-systeminfo-555-update-and-new-benchmark-rules-for-rtx40-series/?do=findComment&comment=634928

 

@johnksss

[electrosoft]

12 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

It does not look like it is easy to find information on 4090 engineering differences. I do not know why the specifications pages (even on the OEM web sites) are not making mention of things like power phases and clearly identifying dual versus single BIOS models.

 

I found this table where a person is compiling the data from sources where it can be found. It is very puzzling that the manufacturers are not advertising the detail, especially on the higher-end models. For example, if you go to the product page for the 4090 Suprim X they say nothing about the power handling capacity of their flagship. -????-

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1461611-rtx-4090-vrm-meta-analysis-and-feaib-comparison/ 

Do they really think that every person dropping a gigantic wad of cash on their overpriced stuff is that stupid and does not care about how much effort (or lack thereof) went into building it?

---

 

 

I think I saw that chart before but could not find it again, nice!

 

Crazy the difference in board quality and design. MSI, Asus and Nvidia are really top of the heap.

 

Ouch the MSI Gaming Trio X is significantly worse than the Suprim overall...(eyes the cancel order button).

 

Asus TUF is literally dab smack in the middle.

 

MSI with the Suprim literally followed Nvidia's lead on their FE but just beefed it up even more.

 

12 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Here is something from a channel I haven't seen before. Small subscriber base, but actually a pretty good piece. This channel will likely end up being successful if this is the quality he typically puts out. (I have not watched any other videos from this channel yet to know.)

 

Interesting how poorly the 7900XT fares against the 4080. I expected the 4080 to be better, but not by such a wide margin.

 

 

 

 

Based on my findings in WoW and the 7900XTX being on the near same level as a 3080 10GB in RT (76fps vs 75fps), I am not surprised. I expected much better from the 7900XTX. I retested with the newest drivers yesterday and exact same performance.  To add insult to injury the 7900XTX was having all types of problems performing in my Z590 Strix board with all types of pauses and stutters. I popped the Strix 3080 10GB in there to check and it was smooth sailing. Both with their own clean installs.

 

In the defense of AMD, performance varies widely depending on title but even at its best case scenario the 7900XTX delivers ~3090-3090ti RT performance. A fairer shootout would have been the 7900XT vs the 4070ti and then the 7900XTX vs 4080 but the fact still remains the RT performance of AMD has improved but the next gen RT performance of Nvidia just crushes it.

 

 

 

[ryan]

on the laptop side of things, things are looking good indeed

 

[Ashtrix]

On 1/20/2023 at 5:38 PM, Papusan said:

 

Regarding Todays tech. We pay premium for trash.... 

 

PSA: Intel I226-V 2.5GbE on Raptor Lake Motherboards Has a Connection Drop Issue: No Fix Available techpowerup.com 

 

In the end, we just switched over to the motherboard's second network interface, which is not an Intel NIC, and the issue went away. Another option could be to buy a cheap PCI-Express network card or use the board's integrated Wi-Fi. Still, such issues aren't acceptable, especially not from a world-leading manufacturer like Intel, who once was reputed for the quality of its networking equipment. Intel and its motherboard partners need to get on top of this issue.

 

 

I remember i225V LAN controller Foxville chip from Intel having this issue, this was back in 2021 when I was researching everything in the desktop arena from RAM, Mobos, AMD, Intel issues etc. And found out that i225V is a bust. All Z490, X470/X570 which used that were impacted.

 

Only X570S and Z590 some of them started using B3 Stepping revision of the Intel 2.5G LAN controller. That mess was all over the internet searches every single place, even if you type "i225v" in Google search it will give you suggestions on how vast that thing was. Intel slowly thrown in under the rug and started issuing useless BS firmware updates.

 

It was blown out badly as every single NUC and every mobo were impacted.

 

Remember ALC408x ? Realtek Audio Codec. That thing had like an year and half issues all over the place, I suspect it is not fixed yet. I read that on ASUS forums, Reddit and MSI everywhere some of them offered Firmware updates for ALC chip.

 

Anyways Intel i225V bugs were never possible to fix as it's a Hardware failure. B3 or they are SOL and their Motherboard's on board LAN controller is a disaster. 

 

But recently when I was lurking in the ASUS forums I found some users mentioning the i226V and when I searched on net more threads popped up and TPU finally made an article to get more visibility.

 

Quote

Since mid-December, users of Intel 700-series chipset motherboards (which debut the I226-V), have been reporting random connections drops to Intel's Support Community, Microsoft, ASUS and Reddit 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. These drops are momentary, last a few seconds, and you'll mostly not notice it; however for applications that need an uninterrupted connection (such as online gaming, video conferencing, VPN, Remote Desktop etc.), such a link drop will be noticeable.

 

Even the B3 is still having issues, I bet that is why Intel moved to i226V, unlike the earlier revisions the 3rd stepping is not having insane problems of connection drops but sporadic issues. See the thread below basic google search.

 

https://www.overclock.net/threads/the-ongoing-issues-with-the-intel-i225-v-rev_03-2-5-gbps-nic.1796635/

 

Quote

Forget about it. I have the allegedly fixed I225-V REV03 on an MSI Z590 board, and it drops speeds from 1Gbps (router and ISP limit) to 100Mbps sporadically, particularly after a computer resume from sleep (even if the NIC itself is not allowed to sleep). Using the very same computer, cable and router with a cheap 2.5Gbps Realtek USB-C network adapter yields stable and consistent 1Gbps full duplex. These I225-V chips seem to be mostly broken in some form or other, no matter the revision. Intel is not releasing any new drivers or other software fixes, and mainboard manufacturers are moving away from using the I225-V on their new products. I'd say these are safe indications that the I225-V was a big screwup that cannot be fixed other than replacing the network chip on the mainboard, preferably with a non-Intel one. This is bad. Intel NICs used to be a safe bet. Seems it is not so any more.

 

But however if you see i226V reports which were linked by TPU it's dropping connections like B1 and B2 i225v versions and other problems.

 

How can Intel screw up the newer one with worst possible issues and not only that it is broken since 3-4 years now, and somehow make i226V worse than B3 i225V. Intel should be ashamed of this trash.

 

So using a USB C LAN is an option BUT it is going to eat your USB C port. For older machines using PCIe = Cut lanes, newer mobos paying $700 and end with junk. Incompetence at highest levels.

 

I use a gigabit class Ethernet and even the old archaic AW17 with KillerNIC e2200 1GBe controller has no bugs, 2014 tech. Oh Intel bought KillerNIC and now that is also dead company like Intel POS junk, Imagine OEMs paying more for Intel LAN over RealTek and end up worst quality junk.

 

So yea today's tech is TRASH. DUMPSTER class. No matter you buy in 2020 or 2023 you are going to get shafted big time. ALC408x problems and LAN controller issues, complete utter JUNK. They even did not bother to fix the damn ILM of their latest processors and now the most expensive boards having i226V.....

 

AMD's X570 chipset USB issues, WHEA spam.

Intel WHEA on high Cache Ratio on 10th gen.

Realtek Audio Codec ALC408x bugged trash with static noises.

Intel LAN problems i225V,  connection drops, bandwidth reduction needed a Hardware Stepping.

LGA1700 ILM bending CPU and Mobo.

Nvidia's 12VHPWR junk blaming on user error margin with no latching mechanism.

Intel LAN problems Redux i226V, no resolution yet on connection drops.

 

All hardware problems.

 

 

[ryan]

theres a new demo to push 4090 to its limits and is visually state of the art as far as realtime rendering.

 

 

 

[Raiderman]

7 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

I think I saw that chart before but could not find it again, nice!

 

Crazy the difference in board quality and design. MSI, Asus and Nvidia are really top of the heap.

 

Ouch the MSI Gaming Trio X is significantly worse than the Suprim overall...(eyes the cancel order button).

 

Asus TUF is literally dab smack in the middle.

 

MSI with the Suprim literally followed Nvidia's lead on their FE but just beefed it up even more.

 

 

Based on my findings in WoW and the 7900XTX being on the near same level as a 3080 10GB in RT (76fps vs 75fps), I am not surprised. I expected much better from the 7900XTX. I retested with the newest drivers yesterday and exact same performance.  To add insult to injury the 7900XTX was having all types of problems performing in my Z590 Strix board with all types of pauses and stutters. I popped the Strix 3080 10GB in there to check and it was smooth sailing. Both with their own clean installs.

 

In the defense of AMD, performance varies widely depending on title but even at its best case scenario the 7900XTX delivers ~3090-3090ti RT performance. A fairer shootout would have been the 7900XT vs the 4070ti and then the 7900XTX vs 4080 but the fact still remains the RT performance of AMD has improved but the next gen RT performance of Nvidia just crushes it.

 

 

 

After reading a lot of comments, most think RT is a bit over hyped considering the FPS hit you take when its enabled. To me, it seems more like a marketing gimmick and less of a necessity. I guess Im not the huge gamer I used to be. Am I wrong?