*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Papusan]

Look at this... Nvidia put up the middle finger for the average gamers buying the cheaper cards. 

 

Gen-over-gen performance uplifts are getting smaller with Nvidia's mid-range GPUs

 

Then you see this below. It seems nvidia continue screw gamers on low/mid tier cards. They aren't the consumers nvidia want. Greedy devils.

RTX 50: no GDDR7 for all cards? overclocking.com

@XpeaGPU indicates that not all cards in the range would benefit from this new memory standard. No,  GDDR7 would be limited to the top 3 most powerful cards in the series. In other words, we should have the RTX 5090, the RTX 5080 and a hypothetical RTX 5070 Ti or even RTX 5070 equipped with this VRAM . The rest should run with GDDR6  or even  GDDR6X .

[Mr. Fox]

3 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Look at this... Nvidia put up the middle finger for the average gamers buying the cheaper cards. 

 

Gen-over-gen performance uplifts are getting smaller with Nvidia's mid-range GPUs

 

Then you see this below. It seems nvidia continue screw gamers on low/mid tier cards. They aren't the consumers nvidia want. Greedy devils.

RTX 50: no GDDR7 for all cards? overclocking.com

@XpeaGPU indicates that not all cards in the range would benefit from this new memory standard. No,  GDDR7 would be limited to the top 3 most powerful cards in the series. In other words, we should have the RTX 5090, the RTX 5080 and a hypothetical RTX 5070 Ti or even RTX 5070 equipped with this VRAM . The rest should run with GDDR6  or even  GDDR6X .

Yup. Exactly. What I said a minute ago.

  

18 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Everything sucks now no matter what name is on the label. Crappy is the new normal for almost everything, including lots of people.

 

[Raiderman]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

  

Intel is the only option. I don't like saying never, but I cannot imagine any scenario that I would consider purchasing another AMD product again. I've never been satisifed with anything I have owned that they made and I don't like the company in general. I've given them plenty of opportunities to change my mind and that has never happened. It would be foolish for me to think that they ever could at this point. I have friends and family that like their AMD products and I am happy they do. I'm not really open to the prospect of dealing with the disappointment all over again. What we are seeing with the crappy 14th Gen silicon samples is a symptom of the world we live in. Everything sucks now no matter what name is on the label. Crappy is the new normal for almost everything, including lots of people.

I am of the opposite mindset. Intel has never offered a product that I've been remotely interested in. Whether it is their short lived sockets, or their shady business dealings, I've never felt the urge to purchase anything from the blue side. Their latest flagship cpu is just another example of how they operate. I'm not saying other companies are not without their issues, but Intel has a long history of abusing their position in the marketplace. That alone has made me use my wallet to help their competition. All corporations are trying to stick it to the consumer the best way they know how, but I had made my mind up long ago, not to purchase any of their cpu's ever again.

[ryan]

I have AMD laptops and INtel laptops, and I have to agree, Im having a better experience with my AMD laptops. Similar performance better gaming performance with the igpu and much longer battery life. 2 hours longer on similar oled laptops.

 

also I managed to get a RAX43 for geforce now and the results are good, I know this is the future, in a few years everything will be subscription including windows 12 I just see it going this way their is already talks of this and with windows 11 they are almost forcing you to get 365 like you install windows and you are basically forced to login to your gmail or outlook account and then offer after offer thrown at you much the same way malware infested apps function.

 

 

Windows 12 May Require a Subscription | PCMag

 

it is likely 12 will be a free upgrade but the fact subscription based OS is even a possibility is really depressing

[Papusan]

9 hours ago, Rage Set said:

How the mighty have fallen. This news story is bad for the legacy of EVGA if true. I guess if all the good employees left, the shell company doesn't care.

 

 

 

From Tomshardware...

 

Contacting EVGA again, the Reddit poster reported that EVGA did not want to replace his storage devices, saying the following: “I’ve never encountered a warranty that offers to cover loss of data or the costs related to the recovery of data and to the letter of our warranty terms, we technically don’t cover any loss or damages incurred by our products either.” EVGA also encouraged the Reddit poster to make a warranty claim from the drive manufacturer(s) themselves to get his storage drives replaced.

 

Nice. Evga want that the drive manufacturers replace the storage. Hmmm. Nice try.

 

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/power-supplies/evga-power-supply-allegedly-blows-up-22tb-of-customer-storage-revised-model-from-rma-had-a-different-pin-layout-and-killed-all-sata-powered-devices

 

 

6 hours ago, Papusan said:

Sad to see... But I warned about buy anything from EVGA now long time ago. And I was spot on. The compani won't be better than the employees/bosses they have.

 

[Raiderman]

3 hours ago, ryan said:

I have AMD laptops and INtel laptops, and I have to agree, Im having a better experience with my AMD laptops. Similar performance better gaming performance with the igpu and much longer battery life. 2 hours longer on similar oled laptops.

 

also I managed to get a RAX43 for geforce now and the results are good, I know this is the future, in a few years everything will be subscription including windows 12 I just see it going this way their is already talks of this and with windows 11 they are almost forcing you to get 365 like you install windows and you are basically forced to login to your gmail or outlook account and then offer after offer thrown at you much the same way malware infested apps function.

 

 

Windows 12 May Require a Subscription | PCMag

 

it is likely 12 will be a free upgrade but the fact subscription based OS is even a possibility is really depressing

I honestly hope the Redmond morons decide to do a subscription based windows 12, then they can watch their market share collapse. Linux keeps improving, while windows gets worse.

[Mr. Fox]

---

 

6 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

From Tomshardware...

 

Contacting EVGA again, the Reddit poster reported that EVGA did not want to replace his storage devices, saying the following: “I’ve never encountered a warranty that offers to cover loss of data or the costs related to the recovery of data and to the letter of our warranty terms, we technically don’t cover any loss or damages incurred by our products either.” EVGA also encouraged the Reddit poster to make a warranty claim from the drive manufacturer(s) themselves to get his storage drives replaced.

 

Nice. Evga want that the drive manufacturers replace the storage. Hmmm. Nice try.

 

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/power-supplies/evga-power-supply-allegedly-blows-up-22tb-of-customer-storage-revised-model-from-rma-had-a-different-pin-layout-and-killed-all-sata-powered-devices

 

 

 

Sounds exactly like an ASUS move. Let Intel pay for the CPUs their motherboards kill. At least it was nice for a while. Now EVGA have joined the asshat club that all of the technology leaders hold a charter membership to.

5 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I honestly hope the Redmond morons decide to do a subscription based windows 12, then they can watch their market share collapse. Linux keeps improving, while windows gets worse.

I agree. I want only bad things to happen to crApple and Micro$lop. They both suck real bad and deserve bad things to happen to them. Their products are crap and their approach to business is even crappier.

[ryan]

all its going to do is force people that are on the fence about linux to switch, then eventually linux will become a better option even for gaming. I personally cling to dear life with windows just because I game. If linux was faster id be using linux. I checked out linux on a jumpdrive and it was clean/fast/and the way an OS should be, but like many unless I have to I won't switch due to the learning curve.

[Talon]

On 3/22/2024 at 12:12 PM, Mr. Fox said:

So, it looks like they are taking a unified hardware mounting approach. If what I read is correct, you could have a Thermalright air cooler, remove it while leaving the brackets installed on the motherboard and simply bolt on the AIO pump in place of the air cooler without having to change the brackets on the motherboard. That's brilliant if it works well. That would be especially nice on an open test bench scenario. So far everything I have purchased from Thermalright has been decent quality. CPU mount frames, liquid metal, thermal paste, fans and other things... no complaints.

 

I picked up some Thermalright 140mm AIO fans a couple weeks ago because Noctua has yet to release a 140mm version of there excellent Noctua NF-A12x25s. Honestly no complaints. While they're definitely not as good as Noctuas, they feel premium, made with thick plastics and are relatively quiet even at 100%. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BTCP7CVL?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

 

I should have grabbed that cooler before it went out of stock. That price is incredible for a 360mm AIO. I could have used it for another build or replacement eventually. 

[Mr. Fox]

32 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

I picked up some Thermalright 140mm AIO fans a couple weeks ago because Noctua has yet to release a 140mm version of there excellent Noctua NF-A12x25s. Honestly no complaints. While they're definitely not as good as Noctuas, they feel premium, made with thick plastics and are relatively quiet even at 100%. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BTCP7CVL?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

 

I should have grabbed that cooler before it went out of stock. That price is incredible for a 360mm AIO. I could have used it for another build or replacement eventually. 

I have 15 Thermalright fans in my systems. They work well and are priced the way all 120MM should be priced. The only thing that would make me like those fans more is if the ARGB was just plain white LED. Then I could just plug in the power and enjoy the white color that I prefer. I refuse to spend a lot of money on fans. To me they are just not worth paying a lot for. All of my systems have so many fans in them that it would cost way too much. Including the MO-RA 360, my system with the white Apex has 27 fans, LOL.

 

I actually loaded one of those AIOs in my shopping cart because it was so inexpensive. Then I stopped and asked myself what I was doing and why I would buy something I have no use for just because it was priced so nicely.

---

Just for giggles, last night I started goofing around to see how high I could coax Cinebench R23 by using as minimal overclock as possible. With BIOS defaults it is over 42K. By increasing the all P-core clock 100Mhz and all E-core clock by 300Hz and disabling cache downclock it is almost 44K. Load voltage is like 1.217V. Most of the BIOS settings are optimized defaults. I set the Adaptive Voltage value stated on the VF curve page with adaptive voltage as the Additional Turbo Voltage value, positive offset and offset amount left on Auto. Memory is XMP Tweaked, Mode 2. But, nothing has been tuned otherwise. Idle voltage is high, but load voltage and  temperatures, and power draw, are all lower. Interesting.

 

[tps3443]

@Talon What did you end up getting that IMC voltage down to? 

[tps3443]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I have 15 Thermalright fans in my systems. They work well and are priced the way all 120MM should be priced. The only thing that would make me like those fans more is if the ARGB was just plain white LED. Then I could just plug in the power and enjoy the white color that I prefer. I refuse to spend a lot of money on fans. To me they are just not worth paying a lot for. All of my systems have so many fans in them that it would cost way too much. Including the MO-RA 360, my system with the white Apex has 27 fans, LOL.

 

I actually loaded one of those AIOs in my shopping cart because it was so inexpensive. Then I stopped and asked myself what I was doing and why I would buy something I have no use for just because it was priced so nicely.

---

Just for giggles, last night I started goofing around to see how high I could coax Cinebench R23 by using as minimal overclock as possible. With BIOS defaults it is over 42K. By increasing the all P-core clock 100Mhz and all E-core clock by 300Hz and disabling cache downclock it is almost 44K. Load voltage is like 1.217V. Most of the BIOS settings are optimized defaults. I set the Adaptive Voltage value stated on the VF curve page with adaptive voltage as the Additional Turbo Voltage value, positive offset and offset amount left on Auto. Memory is XMP Tweaked, Mode 2. But, nothing has been tuned otherwise. Idle voltage is high, but load voltage and  temperatures, and power draw, are all lower. Interesting.

 

This is how I try to always tune a chip. High idle voltage, or high low load voltages. And low heavy load voltage. These tiny little loads that hit a core really quick and lightly can crash a CPU if that idle voltage is too low. 
 

You need to tune your “Per P-Core though” all of your cores are bouncing to (6Ghz) when the chip is using less than (2) cores or idle. 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

This is how I try to always tune a chip. High idle voltage, or high low load voltages. And low heavy load voltage. These tiny little loads that hit a core really quick and lightly can crash a CPU if that idle voltage is too low. 
 

You need to tune your “Per P-Core though” all of your cores are bouncing to (6Ghz) when the chip is using less than (2) cores or idle. 

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I did that. It seems to run and perform exactly the same except for only the two best cores boosting to the higher clock. Perhaps in a situation where only two cores are used (maybe in a game or something) it would be more stable that way?

[tps3443]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thanks for the suggestion. I did that. It seems to run and perform exactly the same except for only the two best cores boosting to the higher clock. Perhaps in a situation where only two cores are used (maybe in a game or something) it would be more stable that way?

The only real benefit is lower voltages and better stability. If all of the cores are allowed to hit the 6.0Ghz boost while idle, it can inflate your idle VID’s on all of the cores a little more than they should be if it were set for only the two best cores. And for stability as well. But it’s probably fine either way really. 

[Mr. Fox]

15 hours ago, tps3443 said:

The only real benefit is lower voltages and better stability. If all of the cores are allowed to hit the 6.0Ghz boost while idle, it can inflate your idle VID’s on all of the cores a little more than they should be if it were set for only the two best cores. And for stability as well. But it’s probably fine either way really. 

I'm having issues with having so many bios options set to auto. Can be perfectly stable for a while. Then if I power the system off and leave it for a while and then come back to it and turn it back on it's no longer stable and I have to go back to my old manual overclock settings. I've had this problem off and on over the years with vatious systems, which is why I usually set all values manually and use static voltage values. Then my systems behaves the same all the time even if it might be getting a little bit more voltage and drawing more power than what it needs it behaves more reliably. In some respects it is the same, or the opposite, as pushing a system to the edge of stability on the overclock, or pushing the undervolt to the edge of stability. In either circumstance the edge of what works and what does not moves based on temperature, and unless "auto" works 100% of the time, (regardless of environmental changes,) there will be times it does not work.

[Talon]

On 3/24/2024 at 3:58 PM, tps3443 said:

@Talon What did you end up getting that IMC voltage down to? 

 

I need to test lower, but got busy with work. I'm will try and shave down more tonight or tomorrow. 1.225v IMC is where it's bee rock solid stable. Ran TestMem5, Karhu and BF2042 as my testing lol. But TestMem5 with Absolute or Extreme for over an hour was no issues at all. For 8200 CL38 XMP that is crazy good voltage. The Asus Auto was shoving 1.4v into it which is obviously not necessary. I also leave the other voltages on autos and let it configure those. 

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, Talon said:

The Asus Auto was shoving 1.4v

Same with both of my systems. It's not actually "Auto" as much as what they decide to set as the default value so that the most horrible CPU silicon will run without lockups and blue screens. It's not "intelligent" at all. They call it "Auto" and what it really means is "ASUS BIOS Default" value. It has to work for 99% which means it's way more than necessary for probably at least half of the systems, maybe even more than necessary for +80% considering some people are content with 6800 or 7200. The lowest common denominator gets accounted for.

 

If I set mine to 1.250V under load the actual IMC VDD is 1.225V.  I haven't tested this on the 24GB A-die modules, only the 24GB M-dies. The M-die uses lower voltage all the way around. Totally stable with the TeamGroup Xtreem 8200 bumped to 8400 and 1.435V. CL38-49-49-84 2T tRFC 700 tREFI 131071.

[tps3443]

2 hours ago, Talon said:

 

I need to test lower, but got busy with work. I'm will try and shave down more tonight or tomorrow. 1.225v IMC is where it's bee rock solid stable. Ran TestMem5, Karhu and BF2042 as my testing lol. But TestMem5 with Absolute or Extreme for over an hour was no issues at all. For 8200 CL38 XMP that is crazy good voltage. The Asus Auto was shoving 1.4v into it which is obviously not necessary. I also leave the other voltages on autos and let it configure those. 

My fully tuned 8267c36-48-48-48-60 profile with (262k tREFI) works with 1.225V IMC voltage. TM5 under load shows 1.208V which is pretty crazy that it will even run like this 😆. I’m sure many of us are sending too much IMC voltage though. 
 

I tried sending low IMC Voltage to my 13900KS, and it wasn’t very happy about it. So I think it does depend on the IMC and chip. 

 

 

[tps3443]

I got my 11y/o son’s gaming rig built. It runs really nice too. The cpu cooler is really great considering it’s just a AIO! The CPU and system ram is also very nice. This little 3060 12GB Strix overclocks like a freaking monster!! The cooler is so overkill on it for sure. It’s gonna be a 4060 8Gb killer all day (This GPU at 100% fan runs like 38-40C with the GPU stock) I have the full kit for the lian li to run a vertical GPU with the ribbon cable as well. The case also included the glass panels and mesh panels and vertical GPU kit to my surprise. 😁
 

 

All of these parts were 100% donated besides the PSU, and the 3060 😀 

Intel 12900KS (Free)

Asrock Z790 Pro RS Wifi (Free)

G.Skill Trident Z DDR5 6400c32 (Free) (2x16GB)

Asus Strix RTX with 3060 12GB ($265)

NZXT Z73 360MM AIO (Free)

EVGA 1300P+ PSU (Already owned it)

(2) 512GB Intel 660P Raid 0 (Already owned)

LIAN li 011 Dynamic Evo W mesh kit installed. (FREE)

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I got my 11y/o son’s gaming rig built. It runs really nice too. The cpu cooler is really great considering it’s just a AIO! The CPU and system ram is also very nice. This little 3060 12GB Strix overclocks like a freaking monster!! The cooler is so overkill on it for sure. It’s gonna be a 4060 8Gb killer all day (This GPU at 100% fan runs like 38-40C with the GPU stock) I have the full kit for the lian li to run a vertical GPU with the ribbon cable as well. The case also included the glass panels and mesh panels and vertical GPU kit to my surprise. 😁
 

 

All of these parts were 100% donated besides the PSU, and the 3060 😀 

Intel 12900KS (Free)

Asrock Z790 Pro RS Wifi (Free)

G.Skill Trident Z DDR5 6400c32 (Free) (2x16GB)

Asus Strix RTX with 3060 12GB ($265)

NZXT Z73 360MM AIO (Free)

EVGA 1300P+ PSU (Already owned it)

(2) 512GB Intel 660P Raid 0 (Already owned)

LIAN li 011 Dynamic Evo W mesh kit installed. (FREE)

 

 

 

 

That is an amazing first PC. What a blessing that so many parts were donated.

[tps3443]

6 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

That is an amazing first PC. What a blessing that so many parts were donated.

You ain’t kidding. I was quite surprised. I was just gonna get my son a used 10900K and a 3060 12GB. 
 

Now he’s got him a legit system that’s actually fast! 
 

The 12900KS runs nice and cool 66-70C during R23 with the 360AIO. No power limits in place. Using Kryonaut Extreme paste. 

[electrosoft]

11 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I got my 11y/o son’s gaming rig built. It runs really nice too. The cpu cooler is really great considering it’s just a AIO! The CPU and system ram is also very nice. This little 3060 12GB Strix overclocks like a freaking monster!! The cooler is so overkill on it for sure. It’s gonna be a 4060 8Gb killer all day (This GPU at 100% fan runs like 38-40C with the GPU stock) I have the full kit for the lian li to run a vertical GPU with the ribbon cable as well. The case also included the glass panels and mesh panels and vertical GPU kit to my surprise. 😁
 

 

All of these parts were 100% donated besides the PSU, and the 3060 😀 

Intel 12900KS (Free)

Asrock Z790 Pro RS Wifi (Free)

G.Skill Trident Z DDR5 6400c32 (Free) (2x16GB)

Asus Strix RTX with 3060 12GB ($265)

NZXT Z73 360MM AIO (Free)

EVGA 1300P+ PSU (Already owned it)

(2) 512GB Intel 660P Raid 0 (Already owned)

LIAN li 011 Dynamic Evo W mesh kit installed. (FREE)

 

 

 

 

 

That's killer! Much better than the rig I built for my nephew.

 

 

[tps3443]

46 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

That's killer! Much better than the rig I built for my nephew.

 

 

Thanks! Been tuning it up for him all this morning. Forcing rebar, undervolting the cpu, secondary ram timings etc, GPU max overclock applied. 
 

I’ve got the 3060 at 2,145/17,500Gbps. So far it’s already beating a stock RTX 4060 which I think is hilarious. Not sure what they were thinking releasing a 4060 8GB. 

[Mr. Fox]

12 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Not sure what they were thinking releasing a 4060 8GB. 

Either they were not thinking, or they were and it was a deliberately nefarious decision.

[Rage Set]

According to Steve in GN's latest news video, some members of the team that developed EVGA mobo BIOS left for Asrock....keep that in mind for future mobo purchases.