*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[tps3443]

12 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

 

Yes, the cooler sucks until you enable the TEC. There are 2 different control center applications you can use for it. You can either use the Intel official Cryo Cooling software: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/715177/intel-cryo-cooling-technology-gen-2.html

 

Or you can download the open source modded version that doesn't contain the stupid artificial CPU model check, which allows the TEC to work with any CPU: https://github.com/juvgrfunex/cryo-cooler-controller

 

I prefer the open source version.

 

Once you get either one of these applications set up along with the required drivers to make them work, just enable the TEC and watch your CPU go brrrrr (literally, the CPU can get pretty cold).

 

If you use the Intel official version, I'd recommend setting it to Cryo mode for daily driving, and enable unlimited mode only when benchmarking in short bursts.

 

If you use the open source version, setting the Offset parameter to positive 2 is equivalent to running Cryo mode on the Intel official software, and setting that Offset parameter to a negative number is equivalent to running Unlimited mode on the Intel official software.

 

Once you enable the TEC, the cooler is good for a CPU power draw up to about 200 watts before you start thermal throttling. I also used liquid metal between the CPU die and IHS, and also between the IHS and the cooler coldplate nozzle.

 

Note, DO NOT use liquid metal between the IHS and coldplate on the MasterLiquid ML 360 Sub Zero if your IHS is pure copper, use nickel plated IHSes only! If you use a pure copper one like I did, the liquid metal will weld both copper surfaces together over time with the TEC active as the colder temperatures from the TEC coldplate and the heat from the CPU accelerate the absorption of the gallium from the liquid metal into both copper surfaces, and eventually bonds the copper surfaces together.

 

Alternatively, you can pre treat both copper surfaces with liquid metal to prevent this from happening. Stupid me, now I can't get the cooler off my golden 10900K. It really needs a repaste.😭

It’s working extremely well now! I downloaded just the regular version and set the “Cryo” mode. I saw the idle temps go from 43c to 20c in like 20-30 seconds lol. After running R15 the max temps were much much lower. I love this cooler. This is actually really impressive seeing this. 
 

This 10900K seems to be a gem so far. I ran R15@5.3Ghz and it only hit 180 watts max. This is madness. I remember hitting 298 watts on a direct die 10850K on custom loop cooling. And it was a really good sp85 chip. So this chip is not delidded at all, and only on an AIO, it’s absolutely killing it. I’ve got to put this thing on the chiller/big boy extreme loop. 

[Clamibot]

26 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

It’s working extremely well now! I downloaded just the regular version and set the “Cryo” mode. I saw the idle temps go from 43c to 20c in like 20-30 seconds lol. After running R15 the max temps were much much lower. I love this cooler. This is actually really impressive seeing this. 
 

This 10900K seems to be a gem so far. I ran R15@5.3Ghz and it only hit 180 watts max. This is madness. I remember hitting 298 watts on a direct die 10850K on custom loop cooling. And it was a really good sp85 chip. So this chip is not delidded at all, and only on an AIO, it’s absolutely killing it. I’ve got to put this thing on the chiller/big boy extreme loop. 

 

Yep, high binned 10900Ks can do some pretty amazing all core speeds if they're kept cold enough. The cold also significantly reduces their voltage requirements and power draw, further increasing your overclocking headroom. You saw the results that just a TEC is capable of getting out of this chip.

 

I was able to do 5.5 Ghz on mine in games initially but could never keep the chip cold enough to keep it 100% stable. Any temperature spike too high and the machine crashed.

 

One thing I really like about my current 14900KF system I just built last weekend is that the system doesn't crash if I overclock just a little too high. Programs crash instead, which makes the trial and error a lot quicker of a process now that I don't have to wait for system shutoffs and reboots every time now. I do want to get the V2 of the MasterLiquid ML 360 Sub Zero, called the MasterLiquid ML 360 Sub Zero Evo, as that will enable me to continue my sub ambient overclocking adventures with the 14900KF.

 

Funnily enough, Skatterbencher did some overclocking using a TEC on almost my exact same setup (he used a 14900KS instead of the KF) and got really good results out of it. He was able to easily do 6.2 GHz all core in Shadow Of The Tomb Raider.

 

Video if anyone is interested: 

 

[tps3443]

19 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

 

Yep, high binned 10900Ks can do some pretty amazing all core speeds if they're kept cold enough. The cold also significantly reduces their voltage requirements and power draw, further increasing your overclocking headroom. You saw the results that just a TEC is capable of getting out of this chip.

 

I was able to do 5.5 Ghz on mine in games initially but could never keep the chip cold enough to keep it 100% stable. Any temperature spike too high and the machine crashed.

 

One thing I really like about my current 14900KF system I just built last weekend is that the system doesn't crash if I overclock just a little too high. Programs crash instead, which makes the trial and error a lot quicker of a process now that I don't have to wait for system shutoffs and reboots every time now. I do want to get the V2 of the MasterLiquid ML 360 Sub Zero, called the MasterLiquid ML 360 Sub Zero Evo, as that will enable me to continue my sub ambient overclocking adventures with the 14900KF.

 

Funnily enough, Skatterbencher did some overclocking using a TEC on almost my exact same setup (he used a 14900KS instead of the KF) and got really good results out of it. He was able to easily do 6.2 GHz all core in Shadow Of The Tomb Raider.

 

Video if anyone is interested: 

 

Yeah. This little AIO is impressive for what it is. I mean, this is really cool being a simple and very small package cooler. Of course, it cannot compete with my chiller+tank. But it’s still very good for what it is.  
 

I always wondered how the EKWB Tec plate block/cooler would work if hooked up to my custom chilled loop lol. I would be water chilling a EK Tec block so maybe working double time. 

 

Stability testing Intel 13th/14th gen is done best by using your daily apps. Run your games, run your programs and you become the stability tester not a stability testing app telling you “All good”, that’s how I always did it with great results. You can pass several things and think it’s okay and 100% stable. Download a new game, and it won’t open it as it fails during the shader compiling lol. 

 

[electrosoft]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

The Heatkiller Pro IV CPU waterblocks are amazing. I actually like them as much as the Optimus CPU blocks. My favorite D5 pump/res units are the XSPC Photon (getting hard to find) and the Alphacool units. Both have thick glass tubes, which is the only way to fly. Steer clear of acrylic reservoir tubes as they crack and scratch too easily. The XSPC Photon glass tubes are insanely thick glass and molded with threads on each end that literally screw onto the pump body and end cap on the Photon tubes. They cannot separate over time and leaks are not even a thing. Likewise, the Alphacool Eisbecher Aurora have 4 metal rods to keep the glass tube sandwiched between the top and pump body.  Avoid any that simply rely on rubber o-ring compression like rigid tubing compression fittings. They are bad about leaking and internal loop pressure pushing the top off the tube (Primochill D5 pump/res for example).

XSPC Photon D5

Alphacool Eisbecher Aurora D5

 

 

Thanks! I'm leaning towards the XSPC but AC would work too.

 

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

It’s working extremely well now! I downloaded just the regular version and set the “Cryo” mode. I saw the idle temps go from 43c to 20c in like 20-30 seconds lol. After running R15 the max temps were much much lower. I love this cooler. This is actually really impressive seeing this. 
 

This 10900K seems to be a gem so far. I ran R15@5.3Ghz and it only hit 180 watts max. This is madness. I remember hitting 298 watts on a direct die 10850K on custom loop cooling. And it was a really good sp85 chip. So this chip is not delidded at all, and only on an AIO, it’s absolutely killing it. I’ve got to put this thing on the chiller/big boy extreme loop. 

 

The magic of binning! 🙂

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

36 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Thanks! I'm leaning towards the XSPC but AC would work too.

I have all of those mentioned and the XSPC Photons are hands down my favorite based on how they are designed.

 

That said, the Eisbecher Auroras are very nice and well built. 

 

Beware of the Photon X4 units. They are made well, but they use a proprietary XSPC pump. Otherwise, they look the same as a D5 and function the same, but good luck finding a replacement X4 pump if you need one.

 

Titan Rig has Photons on sale 25% off. https://www.titanrig.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Photon

[Papusan]

On 12/1/2024 at 7:37 PM, D2ultima said:

So anybody seen the GN video about NZXT?

 

Probably all too late. Greed come at a price. 

 

'I want to acknowledge that we messed up': NZXT addresses concerns about its controversial Flex gaming PC rental program and commits to taking action

 

[Mr. Fox]

On 12/5/2024 at 7:52 AM, Papusan said:

 

Probably all too late. Greed come at a price. 

 

'I want to acknowledge that we messed up': NZXT addresses concerns about its controversial Flex gaming PC rental program and commits to taking action

 

It reflects badly on NZXT for sure. But, I think it reflects even more negatively on the people that signed up for such an idiotic idea, because they lacked common sense to such a degree that they could not recognize how stupid and fiscally foolish it was. Taking advantage of stupidity isn't nice, but it is not the same as using deception, fraud and treachery to mislead otherwise intelligent people into believing your lies. They didn't do that here, they just took advantage of idiots. Bad, but not the same magnitude of crime. Being stupid is a tragic thing.

[electrosoft]

11 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I have all of those mentioned and the XSPC Photons are hands down my favorite based on how they are designed.

 

That said, the Eisbecher Auroras are very nice and well built. 

 

Beware of the Photon X4 units. They are made well, but they use a proprietary XSPC pump. Otherwise, they look the same as a D5 and function the same, but good luck finding a replacement X4 pump if you need one.

 

Titan Rig has Photons on sale 25% off. https://www.titanrig.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Photon

 

On your recommendation, I went ahead and picked up the XSPC Photon D5 aRGB model since it was on clearance and had an additional 20% off making it a total of $137.69 after discounts and cashback.

 

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

It reflects badly on NZXT for sure. But, I think it reflects even more negatively on the people that signed up for such an idiotic idea, because they lacked common sense to such a degree that they could not recognize how stupid and fiscally foolish it was. Taking advantage of stupidity isn't nice, but it is not the same a using deception, fraud and treachery to mislead otherwise intelligent people into believing your lies. They didn't do that here, they just took advantage of idiots. Bad, but not the same magnitude of crime. Being stupid is a tragic thing.

 

I think it is a mix of both. My son in law (bless his heart) wanted a gaming PC so badly he rented one from Rent A Center which at least was "rent to buy" but by the time he finished all the payments it was going to cost him $3k for a $1.5k PC. I told him to take that POS right back and built him the equivalent for $1.2k with a better GPU, CPU and more memory.

 

He's not alone in that mentality and not thinking things through. Many focus on "can I afford the payment to have this item now?" versus doing the math and exploring better financial methods to obtain those items because they can't or won't think long term. I've even dealt with that mentality with family and friends trying to explain to them how much money they will end up losing and many times their response is, "I just want it now."

 

Then you throw in companies like NZXT who take gross advantage of that mentality to absolutely abuse the financials of buyers to such gross extremes it HAS to be called out and luckily we have "tech influencers" (gag) with enough clout and standards to make companies change their ways because the tech sector is a finicky beast and sales can turn on a dime.

 

---

 

GN has its issues. Steve is not the best presenter, long winded and prone to sensationalism but he does get the job done and is thorough in his fact finding and bringing companies and organizations to task.

 

He has a few times stepped over the line a bit and was reeled back in though. Good example is GN vs LTT. He had the momentum but then went a little too far and could feel his crowd turn on him a hair so he dialed it back.

 

 

[electrosoft]

6 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Probably all too late. Greed come at a price. 

 

'I want to acknowledge that we messed up': NZXT addresses concerns about its controversial Flex gaming PC rental program and commits to taking action

 

 

"I want to acknowledge that we got caught participating willingly and gleefully in predatory lending practices to pump up our valuation, dump old stock and please our new investors." - A more fitting statement....

 

 

[win32asmguy]

Wow, these Xeon's are big. Sadly I ended up not getting a CPU carrier from either the used boxed processor or the new motherboard so still waiting on that to arrive separately before the weekend hopefully!

 

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

GN has its issues. Steve is not the best presenter, long winded and prone to sensationalism but he does get the job done and is thorough in his fact finding and bringing companies and organizations to task.

 

He has a few times stepped over the line a bit and was reeled back in though. Good example is GN vs LTT. He had the momentum but then went a little too far and could feel his crowd turn on him a hair so he dialed it back.

 

It's hard competitoion between the YouTubers....  NZXT CEO try hard to extinguish the fire. How much is lies, I don't know. But he need to be careful or it will become worse.

 

[ssj92]

Didn't come out as nice as I had envisioned (hard tubing was hard to bend LOL) but still was a fun build:

 

 

Just a test at 4.6Ghz:

 

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, ssj92 said:

Didn't come out as nice as I had envisioned (hard tubing was hard to bend LOL) but still was a fun build:

 

 

Just a test at 4.6Ghz:

 

 

Nice! Yet another reminder why I'll be going with soft tubing. It always looks great but I'm in and out of the systems too much

🙂

 

@Mr. Fox I'm leaning towards the Alphacool Core 1 Aurora as it seems to be on par with the Heatkiller and is compatible with AM5 and Socket 1700. Any insight or is the Heatkiller compatible with both too?

 

Igor shows ithe Aurora basically equal with the Heatkiller for 13th/14th and a smidge better on AM5.

[Mr. Fox]

On 12/6/2024 at 2:06 AM, electrosoft said:

 

Nice! Yet another reminder why I'll be going with soft tubing. It always looks great but I'm in and out of the systems too much

🙂

 

@Mr. Fox I'm leaning towards the Alphacool Core 1 Aurora as it seems to be on par with the Heatkiller and is compatible with AM5 and Socket 1700. Any insight or is the Heatkiller compatible with both too?

 

Igor shows ithe Aurora basically equal with the Heatkiller for 13th/14th and a smidge better on AM5.

I am not certain of it, but I believe it is a matter of changing hardware. What makes the Heatkiller my favorite is how well it is made. The shouldered screws that fit nicely into the thick metal brackets is just very satisfying on top of it working well. It's the kind of product I would make for myself if I had the milling and fabrication machinery. You could put it in a sock and wield it as a lethal weapon, LOL.

 

No matter how you deal with it, switching between Intel and AMD blocks is going to be a pain in the butt. Better to just use QDC fittings on the water lines and swap out the entire assembly rather than farting around with swapping brackets. I'm not a big fan of universal fit components. Purpose fit is usually better.

 

Alphacool Core 1 is a good option, but I haven't owned one. I almost purchased one for the X870E Carbon and went with the Heatkiller instead. When two products perform roughly the same then I choose based on what is more aesthetically pleasing to me and did that here. Plus I knew it was only going to be very, very temporary. I would either be returning the AMD CPU and motherboard because of dissatisfaction with the platform or I would be delidding and going to bare die.

 

Both of my Thermal Grizzly Mycro Pro direct die blocks are awesome. They perform as well as the IceMan blocks (which are utterly amazing) but have the der8auer edge on engineering and aesthetics. That elitist German focus on over-engineering is hard not to love. I find it very hard to enjoy owning CPUs that haven't been decapitated. I'm spoiled forever on bare die temperature reductions.

[Papusan]

GN smells blood😬 

 

[win32asmguy]

@tps3443 @ssj92

 

Do you think the Asus W790 SAGE would be better than the Asrock W790 regarding memory overclocking, as it is only 1DPC instead of 2DPC? I will only use the 2495X for now with 4x16GB, a single GPU and a storage adapter card. The SAGE also fully supports W-3400 so it could be more useful if I ever picked up one of those chips. Both of these boards are the same price right now and the $500 Asrock W790 R2.0 is not available at the moment.

[Mr. Fox]

21 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

@tps3443 @ssj92

 

Do you think the Asus W790 SAGE would be better than the Asrock W790 regarding memory overclocking, as it is only 1DPC instead of 2DPC? I will only use the 2495X for now with 4x16GB, a single GPU and a storage adapter card. The SAGE also fully supports W-3400 so it could be more useful if I ever picked up one of those chips. Both of these boards are the same price right now and the $500 Asrock W790 R2.0 is not available at the moment.

I obviously cannot speak to the W790 platform based on actual experience, but I think the logic would remain constant, in that 1DPC will always be better than more per channel in terms of overclocking and latency simply because of the extra traces, longer traces and noise the extra channels add that impair overclocking and add latency. The higher the memory clock goes, the more harmful the added DIMMs per channel become. The mere existence of the extra slots is what is detrimental... moreso than whether or not the slots are populated with memory sticks.

[win32asmguy]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I obviously cannot speak to the W790 platform based on actual experience, but I think the logic would remain constant, in that 1DPC will always be better than more per channel in terms of overclocking and latency simply because of the extra traces, longer traces and noise the extra channels add that impair overclocking and add latency. The higher the memory clock goes, the more harmful the added DIMMs per channel become. The mere existence of the extra slots is what is detrimental... moreso than whether or not the slots are populated with memory sticks.

 

Thanks for the insight. I agree 1DPC should always be superior. With the SAGE using a W-2400 chip it uses the two closest slots on each side. Hopefully the further slots for the non-present memory controllers are not as detrimental.

[Raiderman]

On 12/5/2024 at 11:56 PM, ssj92 said:

Didn't come out as nice as I had envisioned (hard tubing was hard to bend LOL) but still was a fun build:

 

 

Just a test at 4.6Ghz:

 

Looks great! You had way more patience than I did. I was going to hard tube my loop, and it only took one attempt at bending that crap, before it all ended up in the trash can. 🤣

[Raiderman]

I took the 9950X out today and cleaned it all up, and is ready to ship to brother @Mr. Fox to do his magic. He's been having all the fun, and I wanted to get in on some of it.

[chew]

1 hour ago, Raiderman said:

I took the 9950X out today and cleaned it all up, and is ready to ship to brother @Mr. Fox to do his magic. He's been having all the fun, and I wanted to get in on some of it.

 

delidding?

[Rage Set]

3D Printing is akin to overclocking PCs. Let me explain. Like all of us in this thread, overclocking is the sport. Pushing hardware past its intended limits. Even if we are never going to use that redline performance for practical use cases. Then there are some that go beyond traditional overclocking and step into the realm of sub-ambient overclocking. 

 

Both groups are represented in the world of 3D printing. These are the folks who care less about the end output (actual 3D prints) and more about building and modding the 3D printers themselves. Most take extreme pride in building the DIY 3D printers with significant hardware mods. You can easily spend over 10K on some of these machines. 

 

Software wise...it looks like a lot of these software companies took a page out of the Asus BIOS book and I am only talking about the slicer applications. If you want complete software control over your custom 3D printer, the creative knobs are certainly there. 

 

The 3D printer manufacturers are similar to computing companies. Prusa is akin to the Intel of old. One of the originators of 3D printers. Reliable (for the most part) 3D printers that allow total customizability and modding. Although, they have been stagnant while smaller 3D printer manufacturers have been eating their lunch lately. Creality is AMD of old in many ways. Offering lots of budget machines that require extensive rework by the end user to get working reliably, although they have some killer options that will match some of the competition at a much lower cost.

 

Finally, there is Bambu Labs which is essentially, a mix of Apple/Nvidia. BL 3D printers just work out of box and are known to be very reliable...at the cost of being stuck in a proprietary walled garden. There are still third-party companies creating hardware modifications, but nothing like Prusa's ecosystem. 

 

I have entered a rabbit hole that I can see myself becoming increasingly addicted to exploring. Printing and holding your first 3DBenchy is a wonderful feeling. 

 

EDIT: The 3DBenchy is a benchmark for 3D printers. 

 

 

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I took the 9950X out today and cleaned it all up, and is ready to ship to brother @Mr. Fox to do his magic. He's been having all the fun, and I wanted to get in on some of it.

 

Nice!

 

So @Mr. Fox you are our official AM5 delidding service now? 🙂

 

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, Rage Set said:

3D Printing is akin to overclocking PCs. Let me explain. Like all of us in this thread, overclocking is the sport. Pushing hardware past its intended limits. Even if we are never going to use that redline performance for practical use cases. Then there are some that go beyond traditional overclocking and step into the realm of sub-ambient overclocking. 

 

Both groups are represented in the world of 3D printing. These are the folks who care less about the end output (actual 3D prints) and more about building and modding the 3D printers themselves. Most take extreme pride in building the DIY 3D printers with significant hardware mods. You can easily spend over 10K on some of these machines. 

 

Software wise...it looks like a lot of these software companies took a page out of the Asus BIOS book and I am only talking about the slicer applications. If you want complete software control over your custom 3D printer, the creative knobs are certainly there. 

 

The 3D printer manufacturers are similar to computing companies. Prusa is akin to the Intel of old. One of the originators of 3D printers. Reliable (for the most part) 3D printers that allow total customizability and modding. Although, they have been stagnant while smaller 3D printer manufacturers have been eating their lunch lately. Creality is AMD of old in many ways. Offering lots of budget machines that require extensive rework by the end user to get working reliably, although they have some killer options that will match some of the competition at a much lower cost.

 

Finally, there is Bambu Labs which is essentially, a mix of Apple/Nvidia. BL 3D printers just work out of box and are known to be very reliable...at the cost of being stuck in a proprietary walled garden. There are still third-party companies creating hardware modifications, but nothing like Prusa's ecosystem. 

 

I have entered a rabbit hole that I can see myself becoming increasingly addicted to exploring. Printing and holding your first 3DBenchy is a wonderful feeling. 

 

EDIT: The 3DBenchy is a benchmark for 3D printers. 

 

 

That's absolutely awesome, bro. I am excited that you are getting into that. I look forward to seeing what kind of cool creations you come up with.

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Nice!

 

So @Mr. Fox you are our official AM5 delidding service now? 🙂

 

LOL, not really but I am willing to help a friend (any friend) when the opportunity exists. If I do too many I might develop an repetitive stress injury. To get the IHS off of mine I had to shift the IHS back and forth like 75 or 80 times. I can see why Roman uses a cordless drill with an allen bit now. I am not going to do that, but the thought did cross my mind when I was tightening and loosening the screws that many times. A one point I wondered if it was going to actually turn loose. Then it did. It moves such a small distance each direction that it is not hard to understand why it was tedious. It didn't make any unsettling noises like I sometimes hear when shoving an Intel IHS off the die in one uninterrupted motion.

 

It is absolutely worth doing though. The thermal improvement is no less dramatic than it is with an Intel CPU. Maybe even a little bit more since the CCD chiplets are so small. It's too bad that was not true with the 5950X delid. Part of it is likely the Mycro Pro direct die block. That thing is amazing.

[jaybee83]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Nice!

 

So @Mr. Fox you are our official AM5 delidding service now? 🙂

 

 

welp i can take care of the europe side of things, also got an AM5 delidder handy 😄 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

That's absolutely awesome, bro. I am excited that you are getting into that. I look forward to seeing what kind of cool creations you come up with.

LOL, not really but I am willing to help a friend (any friend) when the opportunity exists. If I do too many I might develop an repetitive stress injury. To get the IHS off of mine I had to shift the IHS back and forth like 75 or 80 times. I can see why Roman uses a cordless drill with an allen bit now. I am not going to do that, but the thought did cross my mind when I was tightening and loosening the screws that many times. A one point I wondered if it was going to actually turn loose. Then it did. It moves such a small distance each direction that it is not hard to understand why it was tedious. It didn't make any unsettling noises like I sometimes hear when shoving an Intel IHS off the die in one uninterrupted motion.

i feel ya, iirc it took me like 60-70 repetitions to get mine off. its a bit of a chore, but definitely straight forward process 🙂