*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

One being a 9950X3D to properly take advantage of these 8000+ kits.

Mine is arriving on Tuesday.

[jaybee83]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Mine is arriving on Tuesday.

ooooh joining the X3D club? nice, looking forward to your findings vs. the regular 9950X.

[electrosoft]

11 hours ago, tps3443 said:

The 5070FE working well? I like FE’s always have since owning GTX 1080FE /2080 Super FE/ 2080Ti FE etc. They give off that new premium vibe. Does the 5070 overclock really well? I saw a VFcurve on one of these from a guy on overclock.net and they are like hand picked to be low voltage queens and low power chips, unless they are just naturally like that due to only a fraction of cuda cores intact. Maybe you can share its VFcurve. But this one 5070FE I saw ran about +1,000Mhz more than my 5090FE does at 0.800-875mv. I’m guessing it is because fewer cuda cores changes the curve, but It’s still incredible though. 
 

 

 

I haven't had a chance to install it yet. I've been testing out the items I picked up from GTZ over on the OC forums. Fast and as advertised as always. Just a good guy all around. I wish the tech forums had a 1000 of him.

 

I'm going to move that 13400 from him into this B760 Gigabyte Gaming AX board I have w DDR5 6400 and install that before I give the 5070 a whirl in a few days. I've finished testing my 9070xt just about. 2fps+ Max OC'd vs stock on min and avg in Deux Ex, WoW, Fallout 76....yay? 🙂

 

 

10 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Mine is arriving on Tuesday.

 

Uh oh! Time to test one against your two other 9950x's?

 

I must admit, I'm still on the fence about maybe ordering a 285k instead and building out for comparison. I wish a decent (SP85+) would pop up for cheap to take the binning out of the process.

 

 

 

 

[jaybee83]

37 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

I haven't had a chance to install it yet. I've been testing out the items I picked up from GTZ over on the OC forums. Fast and as advertised as always. Just a good guy all around. I wish the tech forums had a 1000 of him.

 

I'm going to move that 13400 from him into this B760 Gigabyte Gaming AX board I have w DDR5 6400 and install that before I give the 5070 a whirl in a few days. I've finished testing my 9070xt just about. 2fps+ Max OC'd vs stock on min and avg in Deux Ex, WoW, Fallout 76....yay? 🙂

 

Uh oh! Time to test one against your two other 9950x's?

 

I must admit, I'm still on the fence about maybe ordering a 285k instead and building out for comparison. I wish a decent (SP85+) would pop up for cheap to take the binning out of the process.

 

i can see that 5090 budget burning a hole in your wallet hahaha

 

i for one am done with hardware purchases for the time being, back to tuning the installed hardware (finish RAM and havent even started with the CPU yet!) and also more gaming! just finished Deliver Us Mars and also discovered a third installment is already in the making (Deliver Us Home). Now I am starting with Doom Eternal + Ancient Gods, first time ive tried it. Lets see how it compares to Doom 3 and Doom 2016 🙂 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Uh oh! Time to test one against your two other 9950x's?

 

I must admit, I'm still on the fence about maybe ordering a 285k instead and building out for comparison. I wish a decent (SP85+) would pop up for cheap to take the binning out of the process.

Yeah, I am seeing higher CPU benchmark scores and better memory performance from a number of 9950X3D owners (like 49K+ in CBR23) so I thought I would investigate. That hasn't been the case in the past, as the X3D CPUs are primarily intended for gaming, which obviously is not a major driving factor or something that motivates me.

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

I haven't had a chance to install it yet. I've been testing out the items I picked up from GTZ over on the OC forums. Fast and as advertised as always. Just a good guy all around. I wish the tech forums had a 1000 of him.

 

I'm going to move that 13400 from him into this B760 Gigabyte Gaming AX board I have w DDR5 6400 and install that before I give the 5070 a whirl in a few days. I've finished testing my 9070xt just about. 2fps+ Max OC'd vs stock on min and avg in Deux Ex, WoW, Fallout 76....yay? 🙂

 

 

Why the 5070 ? Maybe the worst SKU in nvidias's lineup. I know you won't keep it but support Nvidia this way ain't very productive. 

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Why the 5070 ? Maybe the worst SKU in nvidias's lineup. I know you won't keep it but support Nvidia this way ain't very productive. 

 

Why? Because....

 

1. MSRP.

2. I like the look/form factor of the FE series.

3. Price:performance it is actually one of the best (if not the best with 9070/xt temporary launch pricing now a thing of the past)  just like the 4070 was retail pricing which I pointed out back during ada.

 

 

Of course the above is no longer true because the temporary introductory prices of the 9070 and 9070xt no longer exist and the MSRP is now higher while the 5070 FE has remained the same.

 

People seem to get stuck on the whole VRAM issue. I am one of the few who thinks the whole 8gb fiasco is blown out of proportion and an 8GB card is ok depending on your use case. I also think 10GB and 12GB is just fine too.  I watched the reviews of the 5060 and 5060ti and went, "Ya know, it's not that bad at all..." Same for the 9060xt w/ 8GB of VRAM.

 

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yeah, I am seeing higher CPU benchmark scores and better memory performance from a number of 9950X3D owners (like 49K+ in CBR23) so I thought I would investigate. That hasn't been the case in the past, as the X3D CPUs are primarily intended for gaming, which obviously is not a major driving factor or something that motivates me.

 

Moving that 3Dvcache underneath the CCD has made a major difference. Once they slap it on both and improve their interconnects even more, it will be near perfect.

 

Oh, and go ahead and offer a dual binned variant and call it "Extreme Edition" if you want ala Intel style and charge a touch more and I'm there for it.

 

 

[electrosoft]

5 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

i can see that 5090 budget burning a hole in your wallet hahaha

 

i for one am done with hardware purchases for the time being, back to tuning the installed hardware (finish RAM and havent even started with the CPU yet!) and also more gaming! just finished Deliver Us Mars and also discovered a third installment is already in the making (Deliver Us Home). Now I am starting with Doom Eternal + Ancient Gods, first time ive tried it. Lets see how it compares to Doom 3 and Doom 2016 🙂 

 

I mean I *DO* have options now lol.

 

I must reiterate, first thing is my room really does no longer turn into a sauna even with the 9070xt running at full tilt. World of difference between ~550-600w vs 330w pumping into my space which is what WoW pulls when doing anything not player heavy. Door open, ceiling fan going and sporadic AC wasn't enough to overcome the 5090.

 

Even if I eventually pick up a 5090FE, I still have almost an additional $1500 to play with differential at my disposal, but as each moment passes, I am zoning in on that $2132.48 price tag after taxes more and more while this $667 9070xt (total cost of ownership) is really holding down well enough in the here and now for Fallout 76 and especially WoW at 4k.

 

And I am the type who can pick a 5090FE up, look at it lovingly in my hands and go, "I know you are a mediocre card compared to most if not all the other 5090 AIBs out there for overclocking and air cooling, but gosh darn if ya aint the cheapest, smallest and prettiest of all them dang cards! Now get yer keister in this here SFF!" 🤣

 

 

[Reciever]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Why? Because....

 

1. MSRP.

2. I like the look/form factor of the FE series.

3. Price:performance it is actually one of the best (if not the best with 9070/xt temporary launch pricing now a thing of the past)  just like the 4070 was retail pricing which I pointed out back during ada.

 

 

Of course the above is no longer true because the temporary introductory prices of the 9070 and 9070xt no longer exist and the MSRP is now higher while the 5070 FE has remained the same.

 

People seem to get stuck on the whole VRAM issue. I am one of the few who thinks the whole 8gb fiasco is blown out of proportion and an 8GB card is ok depending on your use case. I also think 10GB and 12GB is just fine too.  I watched the reviews of the 5060 and 5060ti and went, "Ya know, it's not that bad at all..." Same for the 9060xt w/ 8GB of VRAM.

 

 

Moving that 3Dvcache underneath the CCD has made a major difference. Once they slap it on both and improve their interconnects even more, it will be near perfect.

 

Oh, and go ahead and offer a dual binned variant and call it "Extreme Edition" if you want ala Intel style and charge a touch more and I'm there for it.

 

 

I share similar sentiments regarding the 8GB VRAM from an abstract stance, that being said the people who most likely need to be the ones checking in advance as to if that should be a concern are also the most likely to never consider it in the first place. 

 

I can think of a litany of uses for 8GB VRAM, but at 24GB Im not thinking of use cases anymore.

[Papusan]

13 hours ago, electrosoft said:

People seem to get stuck on the whole VRAM issue. I am one of the few who thinks the whole 8gb fiasco is blown out of proportion and an 8GB card is ok depending on your use case. I also think 10GB and 12GB is just fine too.  I watched the reviews of the 5060 and 5060ti and went, "Ya know, it's not that bad at all..." Same for the 9060xt w/ 8GB of VRAM.

 

Most people buy prebuilt systems and keep them 4-5 years. And up to $2000 for the whole systems and with 8GB vram cards in 2025 ain't nice. Rather ugly. Even $1200-1400 systems with this type of scam ain't pretty. But that's me. I don't like being scammed. I rather pay a bit more or buy used than support this form of tech degradation...

 

 

 

And this ain't pretty. Form over function.... 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

22 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

Lets see how it compares to Doom 3 and Doom 2016 🙂 

Check out this free mod from GOG for DOOM 3: https://www.gog.com/en/game/doom_3_phobos

 

 

[Papusan]

 

Nvidia is ready to help China with "cheaper" graphics cards for AI workloads. If you aren't alloved to sell higher tier graphics cards... What is better than offer them needed parts for DIY ? If they can offer the GB202 silicon and vram IC's much is done. And probably more difficult to track where it lands. Just use shell companies or/and their AIB partners around the China region. 48GB 5090's is incoming. But not for everyone. Jensen Huang will do everything for China. Even go outside the US ban for higher profits

 

Samsung GDDR7 3GB modules now available for DIY purchase in China, RTX 5090 48GB mods incoming?

In China, Samsung’s new K4VCF325ZC-SC28 24Gb memory is now on sale. Potential customers apparently need to buy at least ve modules to get free shipping, and each module costs around 10 USD.

[electrosoft]

4 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Most people buy prebuilt systems and keep them 4-5 years. And up to $2000 for the whole systems and with 8GB vram cards in 2025 ain't nice. Rather ugly. Even $1200-1400 systems with this type of scam ain't pretty. But that's me. I don't like being scammed. I rather pay a bit more or buy used than support this form of tech degradation...

 

 

 

And this ain't pretty. Form over function.... 

 

 

 

Adjust settings, play the game....isn't that how we've always done it?

 

No one is being scammed unless they do not list the VRAM somewhere in the specs. If they aren't listing it at all, then sure. But if it is listed, isn't that consumer choice? Pick the card that fits your needs. Watching Daniel show the prebuilts, you can clearly see it shows the GPU has 8GB of VRAM.

 

Nephew uses a 6GB A380 and is loving it. Wife uses a 6GB 3050 on her laptop and is loving it. Both running 1080p screens/panels.I remember all the doom and gloom when hogwarts dropped, but I set up a 12500 + 3070ti 8GB system for my daughter and she played it at 4k and loved it. My brother is rocking a 5600x + 1650 4GB and his wife's nephews rock out on fortnite every chance they get and guess what? Loving it....

 

More is better obviously but sheesh. We watch these YTers push settings that will cause the buffers to fill up and cry wolf. Meanwhile, everybody else is just adjusting their settings or letting the game pick the settings best suited for their card and playing.....

 

I do agree with Daniel Owens though.... 

 

-----

 

As for the 5090FE, I absolutely agree. Like I said, clearly price,  form factor and aesthetics is its strong point, but if you pop it in and just use it, it works fine. Runs warm, but works fine. You won't really be competing in the upper level overclocking with it, the fans are never truly silent 24/7 and those fans will definitely go to work under load but It is also $2k and at least $640 cheaper than the next 5090 available (at least here in the states) which is the Windforce and $1359 cheaper than the Astral. For me, that is $1450 difference after tax / cash back for both.

 

But you pay for what you want and if you want the best or a card not locked down or a larger selection of blocks or can run on air and still OC and perform very well, the FE is not for you. If any of this criteria is important to you, you run away away from the FE as fast as you can.

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

Anecdotal further cost analysis for WoW:

 

Stock for stock, the 5090 is 77% faster than the 9070xt in WoW (105fps vs 186fps) when not CPU bound but over 3x as much compared to even the FE or 5x as much compared to the Astral. 5080 FE is 23% faster than the 9070xt but 52% more expensive. Irony? All three suffer from GPU utilization drops with lots of player data at 4k, but the 9070xt handles it better overall.

 

Overclocked, the Astral was ~96% faster (210fps vs 107fps) than the 9070xt overclocked when unhindered by the CPU gasping for breath at 4k. That's just bonkers in the best way......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Papusan]

18 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Adjust settings, play the game....isn't that how we've always done it?

 

Maybe better have a nap😁 

 

18 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

No one is being scammed unless they do not list the VRAM somewhere in the specs. If they aren't listing it at all, then sure. But if it is listed, isn't that consumer choice? Pick the card that fits your needs. Watching Daniel show the prebuilts, you can clearly see it shows the GPU has 8GB of VRAM.

 

Not all average Joe see it this way. If the PC cost above $1000 then it has  to be good. And don't expect everyone know the difference between 8 and 16GB vram. You shouldn't give so much credit to humanity. Even stupids can be great people. Sad seeing they become screwed. 

 

See bolded text.

[Mr. Fox]

Retailers will alway benefit from the ignorance of consumers. Those with the least knowledge are some of their best customers. They buy the garbage that people in the know will not, and because they do there is a market for it. Sadly, they are not in the minority.

[jaybee83]

19 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Oh, and go ahead and offer a dual binned variant and call it "Extreme Edition" if you want ala Intel style and charge a touch more and I'm there for it.

 

ah yes please, id like to have one of those 😄 

 

4 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Nvidia is ready to help China with "cheaper" graphics cards for AI workloads. If you aren't alloved to sell higher tier graphics cards... What is better than offer them needed parts for DIY ? If they can offer the GB202 silicon and vram IC's much is done. And probably more difficult to track where it lands. Just use shell companies or/and their AIB partners around the China region. 48GB 5090's is incoming. But not for everyone. Jensen Huang will do everything for China. Even go outside the US ban for higher profits

 

Samsung GDDR7 3GB modules now available for DIY purchase in China, RTX 5090 48GB mods incoming?

In China, Samsung’s new K4VCF325ZC-SC28 24Gb memory is now on sale. Potential customers apparently need to buy at least ve modules to get free shipping, and each module costs around 10 USD.

 

RTX 5090 with higher vRAM by Nvidia themselves...it better be a 5090 Ti or Titan Blackwell!

 

btw guys, cmon now, we dont really need to be defending 8GB cards in 2025....dont come up with artificial use cases here, just vote with ur wallet and let them die out already.

[Mr. Fox]

55 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Retailers will alway benefit from the ignorance of consumers. Those with the least knowledge are some of their best customers. They buy the garbage that people in the know will not, and because they do there is a market for it. Sadly, they are not in the minority.

Ignorance has consequences.

Punchline: "nvidia is just too busy  drowning in money and Michelin star cunnilingus to care about making a good product at this point  in fact it's in their financial interest to make a  product that consumers don't want to buy at this  point so that they can reallocate all that wafer space to AI chips they can sell for 10 times the  price so with that all I have to say is Nvidia has been dragging their balls in our face for way  too long and don't get me wrong I love balls in my face as much as the next person but for 4  years it's getting real stanky and gross please please Nvidia stop"

[tps3443]

I wonder how the 5070FE with MFG compares to 9070XT though. This seems like a feature I’d want. People pick on it, but It is a great feature. Going from 60 real frames to 240 fake frames looks and feels so much smoother. 

[johnksss]

@Mr. Fox Not sure if you know this but.....

 

The Best Computer Store in Phoenix, AZ

 

The Wait Is Almost Over – Micro Center Grand Opening Coming in 2025! Micro Center is coming to Phoenix with over 25,000 items in stock and the industry’s best customer service. Phoenix, get ready to experience Tech Heaven for yourself—stay tuned for opening details!

 

https://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/phoenix.aspx

 

You might be able to rent that 5090 yet!!

[Clamibot]

51 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I wonder how the 5070FE with MFG compares to 9070XT though. This seems like a feature I’d want. People pick on it, but It is a great feature. Going from 60 real frames to 240 fake frames looks and feels so much smoother. 

 

Funnily enough, if one buys Lossless Scaling for $7, you can get MFG on any GPU. You can even use the program to bring back the days of SLI/Crossfire with it's dual GPU mode!

 

The software suites locked behind either Nvidia's or AMD's products do not add any value to their products. They're technologies that should and can work on any GPU, proven by this nifty little program.

 

Supposedly Lossless Scaling frame gen also runs better on an AMD card than a Nvidia one. I don't know if that's completely true, but that's what I've heard. It makes sense given AMD cards typically have very good theoretical compute capabilities.

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, johnksss said:

@Mr. Fox Not sure if you know this but.....

 

The Best Computer Store in Phoenix, AZ

 

The Wait Is Almost Over – Micro Center Grand Opening Coming in 2025! Micro Center is coming to Phoenix with over 25,000 items in stock and the industry’s best customer service. Phoenix, get ready to experience Tech Heaven for yourself—stay tuned for opening details!

 

https://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/phoenix.aspx

 

You might be able to rent that 5090 yet!!

Hallelujah!!

Best news I have heard in a long time! Thanks for letting me know, Brother John.

---

  

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I wonder how the 5070FE with MFG compares to 9070XT though. This seems like a feature I’d want. People pick on it, but It is a great feature. Going from 60 real frames to 240 fake frames looks and feels so much smoother. 

9070 XT has frame generation and it's much better than prior generations of RDNA. Same for ray tracing. NVIDIA needs to be minding their P's and Q's or they're going to find themselves in the same kind of trouble Intel did. Being asleep at the wheel isn't going to work out as well for NVIDIA as it has for a long time.

[jaybee83]

4 hours ago, johnksss said:

@Mr. Fox Not sure if you know this but.....

 

The Best Computer Store in Phoenix, AZ

 

The Wait Is Almost Over – Micro Center Grand Opening Coming in 2025! Micro Center is coming to Phoenix with over 25,000 items in stock and the industry’s best customer service. Phoenix, get ready to experience Tech Heaven for yourself—stay tuned for opening details!

 

https://www.microcenter.com/site/stores/phoenix.aspx

 

You might be able to rent that 5090 yet!!

 

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Hallelujah!!

Best news I have heard in a long time! Thanks for letting me know, Brother John.

---

  

9070 XT has frame generation and it's much better than prior generations of RDNA. Same for ray tracing. NVIDIA needs to be minding their P's and Q's or they're going to find themselves in the same kind of trouble Intel did. Being asleep at the wheel isn't going to work out as well for NVIDIA as it has for a long time.

 

daaaaaamn, bro Fox will be basically moving into the new MC as a permanent resident 😄 

[tps3443]

9 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Hallelujah!!

Best news I have heard in a long time! Thanks for letting me know, Brother John.

---

  

9070 XT has frame generation and it's much better than prior generations of RDNA. Same for ray tracing. NVIDIA needs to be minding their P's and Q's or they're going to find themselves in the same kind of trouble Intel did. Being asleep at the wheel isn't going to work out as well for NVIDIA as it has for a long time.

 

I like to think about the 4090 compared to the 4080. My experience was a substantial upgrade very nice boost in games. Everyone with/without a 4090 talked about it, and thought it was +$400 more well spent going for the $1,599 dollar 4090. Now consider the 5090 is also +$400 more than 4090 but an even larger upgrade than that was. 
 

I’m beginning to seriously question if anything is ever good enough for me or most people. When we all had 3090’s, and the 4090 came out, we complained because the 4090 was too damn good. It was so fast with frame Gen it made the 3090 instantly obsolete (Nvidia was no friend to us gamers because our 3090 is obsolete now) But now the 4090 owners complain because that didn’t happen again. I don’t think we can ever truly be happy with high end hardware no matter the product they give us.

 

I really don’t think any company or product can fit the bill for what we actually want that would make everyone happy and sing praise lol.  All we can do is waste our money, convince ourselves into buying the GPU, then we sing our praises about the things that are true. 

[Papusan]

12 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Hallelujah!!

 

I wonder how bad the real 5050 will be when the 5060 is in reality an mediocre 5050 class graphics card. So an new released 5050 aka xx30 tier card for your pc monitor setup and not much more. Then why not instead go with an processor with iGPU? The real 5050 will be a waste of sand and should never be made. Or waste of money for the consumers. Put in what's fits.

The Real Nvidia GPU Lineup: GeForce RTX 5060 is Actually a Mediocre 5050

Btw. The newest tech in Papusan's plaza😀

 

 

3 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I’m beginning to seriously question if anything is ever good enough for me or most people.

 

All we can do is waste our money, convince ourselves into buying the GPU, then we sing our praises about the things that are true. 

 

Se bolded text....

 

This affects other models as well. What used to cost $350 to $400 (inflation-adjusted) now costs $550, and you're not even getting as much as you used to. GPUs that once sold for $500 to $600 prior to 2020 are now $1,000. Everything has gone up by 40% to 50% on top of overall inflation.

 

So why is the GeForce lineup suffering from such significant shrinkflation? Why are consumers getting less value now than ever? An obvious answer is simple: new unlimited demand for AI GPUs and profit.

 

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, tps3443 said:

 

I like to think about the 4090 compared to the 4080. My experience was a substantial upgrade very nice boost in games. Everyone with/without a 4090 talked about it, and thought it was +$400 more well spent going for the $1,599 dollar 4090. Now consider the 5090 is also +$400 more than 4090 but an even larger upgrade than that was. 
 

I’m beginning to seriously question if anything is ever good enough for me or most people. When we all had 3090’s, and the 4090 came out, we complained because the 4090 was too damn good. It was so fast with frame Gen it made the 3090 instantly obsolete (Nvidia was no friend to us gamers because our 3090 is obsolete now) But now the 4090 owners complain because that didn’t happen again. I don’t think we can ever truly be happy with high end hardware no matter the product they give us.

 

I really don’t think any company or product can fit the bill for what we actually want that would make everyone happy and sing praise lol.  All we can do is waste our money, convince ourselves into buying the GPU, then we sing our praises about the things that are true. 

I never think in terms of FE pricing because I have no interest in FE cards, and especially not the current design with the fragmented components connected by ribbon cables. That is totally unacceptable to me. So I do not think it is accurate to say the 5090 is $400 more than 4090 when you look to the AIB options. That is also not a great comparison because nobody manufactures 4090 anymore. I think if they did, and it was priced to value the 5090 would not sell well because it is not priced to value. Everything else in the Green Goblin's product stack is a piece of trash, but still grossly overpriced and a poor value.

 

NVIDIA has everything so stinking effed up with the GPU market right now that I don't believe that it will ever be capable of returning to normal. They are anti-competitive, deceptive and maniplulative and they sell products that reflect that mindset on top of being grossly overpriced or a poor value. Being better than the alternative is not good enough because of their disposition.

 

You are right to question whether anything is ever good enough. I think that is very much the case and that's where I am, especially with video cards. Nothing is ever good enough for PC enthusiasts and overclockers because of the degree of nonsense with control and manipulation. NVIDIA has created this problem by deliberately screwing us all and being bold about it. Their behavior has adversely affected everyone, including those that do not purchase NVIDIA products.

 

To be clear, I do not like AMD. I don't like how they do things. Most of what they do is a little bit goofy and often not the best approach. However, they have become the lesser of evils. NVIDIA and Intel are capable of being better than what they have become and should be held accountable for bad decisions. AMD is the best they have ever been and seem to be putting forth the effort to do their best. Sometimes doing your best isn't enough, you have to do what is required. NVIDIA isn't doing their best or what is required. They are screwing everyone and are not even ashamed of themselves.

 

As much as I miss EVGA and wish they hadn't thrown in the towel, I think they were smart to do so. Nobody wins when NVIDIA is involved. They realized that before anyone else did. I think the only way this will get fixed is for NVIDIA to end up losing massive market share and ending up on the brink of bankruptcy before they will pull their head out.