*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[win32asmguy]

8 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

That sounds excellent regarding the palm rest! It makes me want to check it out, this always was something I did not like at all.

 

The CPU at 30W in combined loads seems to be a very low though, aren't you CPU limited in most games with such a low power uptake?

 

Ultimately the way this is designed it seems to be a good option for people who can make use of an external GPU so that all the power budget can go to the CPU when docked.

 

Yeah the palm rest is plastic but I like the feel of it more than a metal or rubber finish.

 

In Ultra Performance mode RAPL sets PL1 to 58W, and the GPU can go up to 175W. So in theory it is designed for up to 233W sustained. However I see battery drain at 200W sustained with thermal throttling so beyond that will need lower ambients or a repaste to see if it can really go higher. The Dell TB5 dock is also supposed to supply up to 300W. I do not know if that extra is utilized or could prevent the battery drain.

 

A TB5 eGPU could work well here if it has improved the latency and bandwidth over TB4. I saw they are starting to test TB5 out over at egpu.io forums so it will be interesting to see how they do. We have both TB5 and TB4 on this machine wired to CPU PCIe lanes so its easy to compare both.

 

https://imgur.com/jxLwhNE

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/142596374?

[electrosoft]

12 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

For the lovers of Crocs it's not about looks. It's about how it feels. But I agree with Fernando in that it is better to look good than to feel good.

 

🤣

 

[1610ftw]

5 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

 

Yeah the palm rest is plastic but I like the feel of it more than a metal or rubber finish.

 

In Ultra Performance mode RAPL sets PL1 to 58W, and the GPU can go up to 175W. So in theory it is designed for up to 233W sustained. However I see battery drain at 200W sustained with thermal throttling so beyond that will need lower ambients or a repaste to see if it can really go higher. The Dell TB5 dock is also supposed to supply up to 300W. I do not know if that extra is utilized or could prevent the battery drain.

 

A TB5 eGPU could work well here if it has improved the latency and bandwidth over TB4. I saw they are starting to test TB5 out over at egpu.io forums so it will be interesting to see how they do. We have both TB5 and TB4 on this machine wired to CPU PCIe lanes so its easy to compare both.

 

https://imgur.com/jxLwhNE

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/142596374?

 

Plastic if done well is also my preferred material for the palm rest.

 

233W is substantial but I guess that they did not really do the math on that one when the dock delivers up to 300W yet the biggest power brick is limited to 280W.

 

I am checking egpu.io every few weeks ad I would have thought that by now we would have numerous TB5 eGPU solutions but that doe not seem to be the case. In fact at least over here it is for now only the - very spartan - Razer box.

 

 

[Easa]

16 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

 

Yeah the palm rest is plastic but I like the feel of it more than a metal or rubber finish.

 

 

The Pro Max Plus 18 has a plastic palmrest? It surely looks like a unibody aluminium chassis. 

[Papusan]

 

Nice. Yet another PSU manufacturer that mean 8 pins connectors should be removed from the PSU panel. 3 measly 8 pins connectors (incl 1 Cpu EPS connector) for their 1000W PSUs. But you get the modern tiny fire cracker, the PCIe Gen 5 connector. This is awful. 

 

Chieftec Introduces 1000 W VEGA M Series Power Supply Unit

Press Release

 

 

Here is also a new smart design choice. Engineering at it best. Trimming away 1/4 of the heatsink area to hide the PCIe Gen 5 cable show us the best coming from todays tech engineers. Why not shave of more of the heatsink finstack "so you can get a better grip around the connector" when you plug it in? 🤐

 

MSI Project Zero GPU Hides 12V-2x6 Power Connector

 

[Mr. Fox]

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

Nice. Yet another PSU manufacturer that mean 8 pins connectors should be removed from the PSU panel. 3 measly 8 pins connectors (incl 1 Cpu EPS connector) for their 1000W PSUs. But you get the modern tiny fire cracker, the PCIe Gen 5 connector. This is awful. 

They obvious do not care about sellling PSUs to anyone that owns an older NVIDIA GPUs or AMD GPUs with 8-pin connectors. 

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

Here is also a new smart design choice. Engineering at it best. Trimming away 1/4 of the heatsink area to hide the PCIe Gen 5 cable show us the best coming from todays tech engineers. Why not shave of more of the heatsink finstack "so you can get a better grip around the connector" when you plug it in? 🤐

 

MSI Project Zero GPU Hides 12V-2x6 Power Connector

Who needs a heat sink? Maybe the goal is to burn the GPU one way or another. If not the arson adapter plug then the core and memory. That will teach that naughty GPU and the idiot that buys it a good hard lesson about "can't fix stupid" 😠

[electrosoft]

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Nice. Yet another PSU manufacturer that mean 8 pins connectors should be removed from the PSU panel. 3 measly 8 pins connectors (incl 1 Cpu EPS connector) for their 1000W PSUs. But you get the modern tiny fire cracker, the PCIe Gen 5 connector. This is awful. 

 

Chieftec Introduces 1000 W VEGA M Series Power Supply Unit

Press Release

 

 

 

 

 

Most modern users, even over on OC, all prefer clean runs to their 5090s and below. Most are either using the supplied PSU 12vhpwr cable or custom ordering one for their PSU with the connector included.

 

Just about every model in the Nvidia consumer stack now uses it.

 

Who in this forum are using the tentacle and running it to 4x PCIe 8 pin connectors to the 5090 besides me?

 

31 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

They obvious do not care about sellling PSUs to anyone that owns an older NVIDIA GPUs or AMD GPUs with 8-pin connectors. 

 

 

Unfortunately we're three generations in now on Nvidia and the 12vhpwr connector. 

Nvidia dominates the market so it makes sense that PSU makers are starting to default to having one on their PSU

 

What I would like to see though is always having at least 4x 8 pin connectors too along side it especially on models 850w+ and up but the bean counters have run their numbers and some models are sacrificing them for $$$.

 

For lesser wattage models I can kind of give it a pass.

 

So far we've only seen two AMD models with it: The Taichi and the Nitro+ 9070xt models. I suspect more will adopt it for future models. 😞

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

19 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Most modern users, even over on OC, all prefer clean runs to their 5090s and below. Most are either using the supplied PSU 12vhpwr cable or custom ordering one for their PSU with the connector included.

 

Just about every model in the Nvidia consumer stack now uses it.

 

Who in this forum are using the tentacle and running it to 4x PCIe 8 pin connectors to the 5090 besides me?

 

Unfortunately we're three generations in now on Nvidia and the 12vhpwr connector. 

Nvidia dominates the market so it makes sense that PSU makers are starting to default to having one on their PSU

 

What I would like to see though is always having at least 4x 8 pin connectors too along side it especially on models 850w+ and up but the bean counters have run their numbers and some models are sacrificing them for $$$.

 

For lesser wattage models I can kind of give it a pass.

 

So far we've only seen two AMD models with it: The Taichi and the Nitro+ 9070xt models. I suspect more will adopt it for future models. 😞

Change that occurs purely for the sake of effecting change is never good or welcomed by anyone other than the inventors. There was zero legitimate need for this. It provides no benefit whatsoever to any consumer. The only logical explanation for it is that it was a very carefully executed strategy to benefit NVIDIA and the PSU makers and create new revenue streams through deliberately fabricated obsolescence. People buy PSUs with 10+ year warranties and continue using them after the warranty expires. What better way to force consumers into buying something they don't need?

[tps3443]

Anyone with a shunted 5090’s cook a cable yet? Mine has been solid running daily still. I think we can have a decent future with the 12v2x6. 
 

I feel like this cable is “Finicky” and so long as we’re all aware of that everything will be alright. 🔥

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Anyone with a shunted 5090’s cook a cable yet? Mine has been solid running daily still. I think we can have a decent future with the 12v2x6. 
 

I feel like this cable is “Finicky” and so long as we’re all aware of that everything will be alright. 🔥

So far no problem but I do not think I will ever have any level of confidence in the durability or resilience of the petite arson connector. The risk willl always be there and requires monitoring. It is an unfortunate and unnecessary situation that we find ourselves in.

---

And the hits just keep on coming...

 

[Papusan]

On 9/30/2025 at 7:03 PM, electrosoft said:

What I would like to see though is always having at least 4x 8 pin connectors too along side it especially on models 850w+ and up but the bean counters have run their numbers and some models are sacrificing them for $$$.

 

I expect you try to say 4* 8 pins outside the two for Cpu and one for the modern motherboards. So minimum 7 of them. 4 extra can also be used as spare connectors for a failed 12v-2*6 cable. Just pick up the ugly tentacle from the package and continue use your graphics card as nothing has happened while waiting for a replacement PCIe Gen 5 cable. 

 

Less than 7* 8-pins connectors on the psu shroud is a shame.....

 

 

The song is also for Asus... Only 90% above MSRP. 

 

ASUS confirms GeForce RTX 5080 Hatsune Miku price at $1899, 90% above NVIDIA MSRP

 

Quote

Modern tech worst failure's "Hall Of Fame Shame"......

 

The plunger connector of horror turns 5 years old – Chronology of the multiple organ failure of the 12VHPWR and 12V-2X6 connector

 

The result is a connector that, after just five years, deserves to be included in the Hall of Fame of the worst design flaws. 

 

 

And the 12VHPWR/12V-2*6 connector fiasco continue....And will be included in the Hall of Fame of the worst design flaws ever. HOF finally got a new meaning

ASUS integrates shunt resistors into its BTF motherboards to monitor real-time power to the GPUs.

Problems with RTX 50s and burnt graphics cards have been occurring nonstop since the beginning of the year, and they're still there, something many of you have unfortunately already experienced firsthand.

 

[Mr. Fox]

Nice to see something decent going down in price. Total opposite of what we normally see. Thermalrite products are generally respectable quality.

 

 

[electrosoft]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Nice to see something decent going down in price. Total opposite of what we normally see. Thermalrite products are generally respectable quality.

 

 

 

Overall trend from makers like Thermalrite and ID Cooling and more along with even MSI and Phanteks offering excellent 360mm AIOs for $100 or below.

 

Go to PCpartpicker and the sheer amount of 360mm AIOs available for sub $60 is refreshing to view.

 

Even 360mm models with LCD displays now can be had for sub $100.

 

This flies in the face of Asus and NZXT trying to pass off display enabled AIOs for $440 and $300 respectively. Insane and truly made for the idiots out there.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

Free and safe versus not free and not safe malware OSes from crApple and Macro$lop...

 

https://youtu.be/Zt9gH34Zw2Q 

[Papusan]

13 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Nice to see something decent going down in price. Total opposite of what we normally see. Thermalrite products are generally respectable quality.

 

 

 

I wonder what the BOM is for this AIO. Is there other places the company have/get their main revenue from? Surely not from this AIO.

 

 

Cost breakdown of major components (estimates): 

• Radiator: $15 - $30 (depending on material, fin density, and size)
• Pump & Block: $10 - $25 (integrated pump and cold plate)
• Fans (x3): $15 - $30 (quality, speed, and noise levels affect price)
• Tubing: $5 - $10 (material and length)
• Fittings & Connectors: $5 - $15 (often pre-installed but can add up)
• Other parts: $5 - $10 (fasteners, thermal paste, packaging)

They have probably better deals on each of the components from this list above (from the minimum price). Minimum prices from the list is the same $55 USD as for the AIO without shipping costs. 

 

I expect the BOM estimates is more like $40 USD for this AIO. 

 

13 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Even 360mm models with LCD displays now can be had for sub $100.

 

This flies in the face of Asus and NZXT trying to pass off display enabled AIOs for $440 and $300 respectively. Insane and truly made for the idiots out there.

 

 

 

 

 

A 6.67-inch AMOLED display should increase the cost with around $50 included the ROG tax. So Asus should should never have sold their AIO flagship for more than around $200. This if made with quality parts and proper warranty. Incl the ROG tax. Everything above this price point is greed and for maxed profits from the idiots (Asus gang members - The sheep) you mention. 

 

 

Quote

Nice to see in the morning with my coffee...

 

@Mr. Fox Is this one of your younger nephews in my garden? 🙂 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

@Mr. Fox Is this one of your younger nephews in my garden? 🙂 

Yes, that is Red Fox. He is a smart boy, but has a sassy mouth.

---

@electrosoft, @Raiderman and @jaybee83 there is a new version of ZenTimings available that shows all of the sensors for voltage now. I will test to confirm that is true on the Strix as well, but it shows all sensors on the Master. It also shows tPHYRDL is matched whereas the last beta showed them mismatched (even though it was not). Also shows the Nitro settings in the lower right corner.

[Mr. Fox]

18 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I will test to confirm that is true on the Strix as well

Yup, also shows all for the Strix. But, tPHYRDL still shows a mismatch. I think it is accurate on the Strix. I'm not sure that tPHYRDL mismatch is actually an issue though. Seems like a lot of noise around that topic to me. I don't think it actually matters, but getting them to match is difficult on the Strix. Maybe it is the "special" A$$zeus NitroPath gimmick that slightly diminishes the memory overclocking on the ROG crap.

 

Edit: Nope, almost. VDDIO is still not being read on the Strix. Oh well. At least the Master has all of the readings now.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 12:49 PM by Mr. Fox
VDDIO still missing.

[Mr. Fox]

Check this out. This could do a lot to help avoid melted connectors. Active load management per pin on the 12VHPWR socket.

 

https://www.igorslab.de/en/aqua-computer-ampinel-exclusive-test-the-smart-plaster-for-nvidias-open-12v2x6-wound-and-the-ultimate-lifesaver-for-any-affected-graphics-card/

 

Property / Function	Description / Value
Current balancing	Active distribution and reduction of currents on all 6 lines of the 12VHPWR plug
Monitoring	Continuous measurement of current, voltage and temperature at plug connections and electronics
Alarm configuration	Multi-level: visual, audible, software termination, PC shutdown, emergency shutdown of the GPU power supply
Operation	OLED display (128×64 px), one-button control, integrated buzzer (approx. 85 dB)
RGBpx lighting	8 integrated LEDs, effects for operating states, alarms and user configuration
Software support	Supported by aquasuite (Windows): Data logger, overview pages, virtual sensors, profiles
Profiles	Manual or automatic switching, up to four profiles
Playground	Virtual software sensors, output actions, global profiles, hotkeys
aquasuite web	Data export, import and publication via Aqua Computer Server
Compatibility	Support of HWiNFO and AIDA64 via shared memory
Firmware	Update and language selection via aquasuite
Security functions	Integrated protection mechanism up to complete shutdown of the GPU power supply
Materials	Aluminum, silicone, PMMA, epoxy resin
Dimensions	72 × 75 × 30 mm
Weight	approx. 100 g
Supply voltage	12 V DC ±5 %, max. 0.5 A
Maximum output power	650 W
Maximum power loss	10 W
Ambient temperature	10-40 °C (non-condensing)
Audible alarm	Buzzer, approx. 85 dB
Lighting	8 digitally controlled RGB LEDs
Interfaces	USB 2.0, 2× signal output, 1× temperature input

[jaybee83]

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yes, that is Red Fox. He is a smart boy, but has a sassy mouth.

---

@electrosoft, @Raiderman and @jaybee83 there is a new version of ZenTimings available that shows all of the sensors for voltage now. I will test to confirm that is true on the Strix as well, but it shows all sensors on the Master. It also shows tPHYRDL is matched whereas the last beta showed them mismatched (even though it was not). Also shows the Nitro settings in the lower right corner.

 

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yup, also shows all for the Strix. But, tPHYRDL still shows a mismatch. I think it is accurate on the Strix. I'm not sure that tPHYRDL mismatch is actually an issue though. Seems like a lot of noise around that topic to me. I don't think it actually matters, but getting them to match is difficult on the Strix. Maybe it is the "special" A$$zeus NitroPath gimmick that slightly diminishes the memory overclocking on the ROG crap.

 

Edit: Nope, almost. VDDIO is still not being read on the Strix. Oh well. At least the Master has all of the readings now.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Check this out. This could do a lot to help avoid melted connectors. Active load management per pin on the 12VHPWR socket.

 

https://www.igorslab.de/en/aqua-computer-ampinel-exclusive-test-the-smart-plaster-for-nvidias-open-12v2x6-wound-and-the-ultimate-lifesaver-for-any-affected-graphics-card/

 

about friggin time on all counts! thx for the headsup, currently enjoying a vacay on Malta with my two ladies 🙂 escaping the dreadful weather in germany, instead at 25-30C 🙂 

[Papusan]

On 9/25/2025 at 12:41 PM, Papusan said:

And it continue.... Intel want Apple to invest some of their money in Intel. What you think about this bro @Mr. Fox🤐 Or should they rather ask the US adm for more money (tax payers money)so they can make a real State-controlled cooperative? Like in the old days with the Soviet Union. This smells bad. Really bad. Or you prefer that Apple can help and dominate Intel so they can force/change them to make tech they want ? 

 

"USSR Cooperative" refers to cooperative organizations that operated within the Soviet Union's command economy, playing significant roles in various sectors from consumer goods and agricultural products to housing and handicraft production. The cooperative system, including large state-controlled unions like Centrosoyuz, evolved significantly

 

 

LOL. Lately US adm had to subsidise US tech to survive after the tariff mess they created. Saving INTEL as USSR prefered with their awful cooperative system. Now we see the same also for US farmer products. What next? More tech companies gobbled up' I'm, sure the old film actor (RR) is spinning in his grave now. Protectionism will never ever work. Same as with proprietary hardware. A huge failure. Dell the huge US tech company is well known for that. Some love it, I know😒

 

Stupid's come in different colors. Same as with aRGB. "Orange color" ain't pretty. And was popular color for tech many years ago. Often blended with Black color to make it more pleasant. Ugly is ugly. Not pretty. Yup, I will still keep my "all black" crocs, bro @electrosoft. Same as with my all black PC boxes🙂 Never change the winning horse bro @Rage Set. Never ever. A PC box should always be black. Not with a hint of "Orange" as in the text from Computerbase GUI.

 

China punishes US for Trump's tariffs

 

 

Subsidies

According to the Wall Street Journal, Trump is considering compensating farmers with more than $10 billion in subsidies, financed through tariff revenue. But the subsidies likely won't be in place until 2026-27.

Steam Hardware SurveyAMD reaches new record, Intel continues to lose ground

The new Steam hardware survey shows that Intel continues to lose market share to AMD and is slipping to an all-time low.

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

A little tighter. I ordered a 6000C26 32GB kit (will arrive this evening) that I am going to try on the Strix to see if it runs better with those. It's falls a bit short on memory overclocking compared with the AORUS Master.

Even with the better CPU installed in it the Strix struggles with 8200 compared to the Master. It doesn't seem that Nitropath does anything to make it better, in spite of the marketing rhetoric from A$$zeus. The ROG firmware is better, (stating the obvious,) but the AORUS board is better. Wish I could crossflash the ROG BIOS to the Master. I will see if the Strix does better with the 6000C26 kit. Getting the tPHYRDL to match on the Strix has been elusive. The idiots at Gigabyte don't even give an option in the BIOS to disable the WiFi/BT module that I don't ever use (and lacks W10 drivers).

[electrosoft]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

A little tighter. I ordered a 6000C26 32GB kit (will arrive this evening) that I am going to try on the Strix to see if it runs better with those. It's falls a bit short on memory overclocking compared with the AORUS Master.

Even with the better CPU installed in it the Strix struggles with 8200 compared to the Master. It doesn't seem that Nitropath does anything to make it better, in spite of the marketing rhetoric from A$$zeus. The ROG firmware is better, (stating the obvious,) but the AORUS board is better. Wish I could crossflash the ROG BIOS to the Master. I will see if the Strix does better with the 6000C26 kit. Getting the tPHYRDL to match on the Strix has been elusive. The idiots at Gigabyte don't even give an option in the BIOS to disable the WiFi/BT module that I don't ever use (and lacks W10 drivers).

 

Can the Strix run 8200 looser or caps out at 8000 regardless?

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

26 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Can the Strix run 8200 looser or caps out at 8000 regardless?

 

 

It can run 8200 just fine and do most things, but will not pass memory tests without errors. It could be the CPU or the memory modules as well. It has the better of my two CPUs in it, but the memory controller might be a bit weaker. Because I am running both systems bare die and liquid metal I don't want to just move them around for the sake of curiosity. The memory performance at 8000 and the same timings as 8200 on the Master are almost the same (obvious in the screenshots above) except that the CPU in the Master maxes out at 2167 FCLK. It will not even boot at 2200. I suspect that is why they are nearly the same memory performance and latency in spite of the 200MT/s higher speed on the Master.

 

I've got another 9950X and a 6000C26 32GB kit arriving late today for testing. If they are better than what I already have I will keep one or both, delid the CPU if it is better, etc. If not, will return both of them for a refund tomorrow.

 

What is really goofy and hard to explain (as the case is with most AMD quirks and weirdness) is that the memory overclock is dialed in nicely and totally stable at 8200 on the Master with the crappier CPU, but if I lower it to 8000 the same memory clock becomes unstable.

 

https://hwbot.org/benchmarks/y-cruncher_-_pi-2.5b/submissions/5904049

 

[electrosoft]

Claims of turning a 9070 into a 9070xt have been greatly exaggerated.....as always.....

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

It can run 8200 just fine and do most things, but will not pass memory tests without errors. It could be the CPU or the memory modules as well. It has the better of my two CPUs in it, but the memory controller might be a bit weaker. Because I am running both systems bare die and liquid metal I don't want to just move them around for the sake of curiosity.

 

I've got another 9950X and a 6000C26 32GB kit arriving late today for testing. If they are better than what I already have I will keep one or both, delid the CPU if it is better, etc. If not, will return both of them for a refund tomorrow.

 

What is really goofy and hard to explain (as the case is with most AMD quirks and weirdness) is that the memory overclock is dialed in nicely and totally stable at 8200 on the Master with the crappier CPU, but if I lower it to 8000 the same memory clock becomes unstable.

 

Agreed, the juice isn't worth the squeeze on that one. Eventually a time will come around where you might have a scenario where you can test it in transit, but with everything set up as now? Nope.

 

So both the 9950X and memory are retail rolling the dice? Good luck!

 

My experience with EXPO is similar with some kits. They work as rated, but if you lower the frequency, they suddenly become unstable. This was the case with a Crucial 6400 kit and G.Skill 6000 kit. I've also had several needing more voltage on the Aorus B650i than rated versus the x870e Hero. I can see why kits get returned with such unstable variability.

 

In the end, I just end up dialing each and every kit in manually. Same as I did for years on Intel. That, in turn, shows the variance between even "same" kits which made me realize (you too obviously) that binning also exists with memory kits too to go along with CPUs, GPUs and depending on how hard you're pushing even motherboards.

 

Ugh... 🤣

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

47 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Agreed, the juice isn't worth the squeeze on that one. Eventually a time will come around where you might have a scenario where you can test it in transit, but with everything set up as now? Nope.

 

So both the 9950X and memory are retail rolling the dice? Good luck!

 

My experience with EXPO is similar with some kits. They work as rated, but if you lower the frequency, they suddenly become unstable. This was the case with a Crucial 6400 kit and G.Skill 6000 kit. I've also had several needing more voltage on the Aorus B650i than rated versus the x870e Hero. I can see why kits get returned with such unstable variability.

 

In the end, I just end up dialing each and every kit in manually. Same as I did for years on Intel. That, in turn, shows the variance between even "same" kits which made me realize (you too obviously) that binning also exists with memory kits too to go along with CPUs, GPUs and depending on how hard you're pushing even motherboards.

 

Ugh... 🤣

I really question the intelligence of continuing this hobby sometimes. I mean, I love it and probably always will, but I despise how most of what is for sale today is grossly overpriced rubbish. It is frustrating, infuriating and inexcusable.  It really pisses me off when I spend money (sometimes lots of it) on something that I expect to be exceptional and the only thing about it that is exceptional is how exceptionally lousy it turned out to be. There should be a punishment for selling trash, but there isn't and that is why it is so common.