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*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D


Mr. Fox

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Really nice to see the X3D still included in tests. Will probably still wait to pick one up second hand off of ebay or something at a later date as I dont want to pay more than 200 or so. It will still be a nice uplift over my 2700x @ 4.2Ghz, sell it and recoop some of the expense. I only spent about 165 USD for my 2700x new, so this is just me being spoiled. I am perfectly aware of that lol

 

Zen 4 looks good, I like that better cooling means something out of the box now, and even more so if you decide to go direct die. Its a good first impression, though I tend to not buy into new generational architectures so how this is followed up will also be fun to see.

 

Kind of a 180 from how reviewers used to look at large L3 or L4 cache of the past with 4980hq and 5775c. I suppose the issue is that its not a universal uplift and is application sensitive.

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Okay went down AT, GN and Hardware Unboxed and this is a good chip on many ends with some downsides as well. Overall a platform to act as launchpad for AM5. Given Zen4X3D will come in next year alongside Meteor Lake and Zen 5 in 2024 with new Chipset but same AM5 socket and Intel with Nova Lake or Lunar Lake whatever.

 

Infinity Fabric and Memory

AMD's IF clock is totally decoupled, this is a huge thing, the older Zen 3 had 1:1:1 ratio for Infinity Fabric clock Fclk, Uclk (Memory Controller IMC), Memory Clock (DRAM) had 3 variables.

 

Now Zen 4 moves away to IF being totally Auto and UClock : MemClock are now 1:1, just 2 variables only, IF is now totally independent, a.k.a the IODie IF interconnect won't BS crap out like previous Zen processors a.k.a trash USB and other I/O issues. Because the Fclk is totally untouched now, that's my understanding.

 

So the memory speed is now Auto:1:1. DDR5 6000MHz DRAM kit you get IF at 2000MHz (Auto) : Memory Clock at 2400MHz to 3000MHz : IMC Clock Uclock 2400MHz to 3000MHz. And EXPO DDR5 6000MHz is sweet spot and switching to more speed = 1:2 ratio a memory performance hit. So best is to stick with EXPO and ratio 1 and OC.

 

Also AMD is not running in Gear 2 like Intel. The slight difference of Intel and AMD is, Intel has Uncore totally unrelated to IMC until CML. But with RKL and ADL somehow the ratio of IMC to DRAM is now Geared. AMD decoupled the IF in similar fashion to CML. Very good thing.

 

Note, DDR5 is same like Intel DDR5. The JEDEC standard, 4DIMMM DDR5 = not great as we all know. The design itself is like this for DDR5.

 

IO Die

TSMC6nm from GloFo's horrible 14nm maximum power on the IOD is now heavily reduced this allows to let the Zen 4 CCDs hit max clocks, plus the IF also is now higher speed than Zen 3 as per AMD, and that means low power again but high clock. The IGPU is weak 2CU RDNA2, BUT it even has DP2.0 and HDMI2.1 which both Ada Lovelace RTX40 series doesn't have ROFLMAO. So expect RDNA3 to have DP2.0 and HDMI2.1. Also it has USB C output native as well, great option to be honest. Plus also H264, H265 both decode and encode this means NAS/NUC boxes get a huge win for AMD Zen 4 parts.

 

Chipset

Improved, esp vs Intel the backplate reinforcement for LGA socket prevents any bend. Speaking about IO the improvements are nice PCIe5.0x16 for PEG on X670E and B650E just like Alder Lake and if manufactures want to get 2x5.0 NVMe. And a lot of I/O options like Z690.

 

But the issue is as I mentioned here previously already is the downlink PCIe4.0x4 on this round same as X570 basically. 100% with Zen 5 AMD will launch new X770 platform with PCIe5.0 downlink because the re-drivers for PCIe5.0 might be expensive this time as it's not even debuted on HPC/Exascale/Datacenter markets... Xeon is delayed Genoa is not yet released, so overall BOM = high if they mandated PCIe5.0x4 downlink for Chipset.

 

The daisychain system of Chipsets needs to prove itself. AMD says it allows CPU to stay out of the I/O density and let the chipset handle. Also there's BIOS Flashback at Chipset/CPU level this time. And many do not even care for Bandwidth, they will populate all slots. Unfortunate part is 8xSATA is going away, the chipset is changed a bit and looks like there are barely any 8xSATA boards only ASRock is making them for both Intel and AMD even ASUS dropped. EVGA is another one who adds external SATA controller and add 2X more SATA totaling from 6 to 8. Shame.

 

CPU

AVX512 beast, flatout there's no competition here 7950X absolutely dominates Intel 11900K totally and 12900K is absent since KS revisions and new 12th gen it is fused off from factory. But AMD is delivering a powerful performance as total Knock out in AVX512, RPCS3 will see superior gains hopefully across all their processors. Plus they are having no AVX Offsets like Intel needs and downclocks the chip to prevent it from overheating because AMD is using 2x256Bit AVX512 units. So no offset nothing just pure performance.

 

Clockspeed is HUGE boost vs Zen 3, the older chips barely crossed 5GHz this one 16C32T 7950X sits at 5GHz Boost all core. Ultra high performance no BS big little garbage at play. ST boost goes to 5.7GHz (Raptor Lake will have 5.8GHz for it's TVB). But the tradeoff is high temperature and cooling requirement for all Ryzen 7000 Raphael processors. Even 7600X gets to 5.4GHz all core speed.

 

IPC boost is as per AMD marketing no shenanigans based off the SPEC and Cinebench scores at AT Ryzen 7000 seems to be king of all processors. Gaming performance is just right there, it doesn't absolutely dominate by a huge lead but rather beats out 12900K in some and loses out in some. 7600X on the other hand consistently beat out 5800X flatout, 6C12T > 8C16T this is what I wanted to see from RKL when Intel went castrating 2C4T off but it did not work out. However AMD does it here. I can see their 7900X totally beating out 5950X across all workloads even if Zen 3 has 4C8T more. 5800X3D however still stays champ in many gaming benches lmao.

 

TJmax is now 95C max for Zen 4 Ryzen 7000 Raphael but 115C is their OC limit. Looks like the tolerance of new TSMC 5N is very high. Too hot CPU. 250W now, AMD kicked tree hugging BS to curb. I like it. Let the x86 processor do its work and not castrate it. But ofc it's a bit on the heavy side of things seeing a CPU run at 90C all the time. The voltage is however very normal 1.0-1.2v now, unlike the Zen 3 maybe that's a good thing at-least you do not have high voltage AND high temps.

 

Also ASUS has SP rating for AMD Ryzen 7000 as well, does it even matter when the CPUs are too hot ? I think the top end stack of R9 will always be high SP rating.

 

Final Thoughts

No biglittle BS drama. Full proper cores and MT performance is very high, the 7600X is a killer chip. They managed to fix a lot of technical issues, some of them needs to be seen on how it fares in public hands (platform stability).  Chipset bandwidth is a bummer. But I do not think many even give a single F. I do not think many even damn know about the Chipset DMI and Lane bifurcation on the mobos, if they did HEDT would not have been dead.

 

Cooling AMD axed all that Power and Temp nonsense and let the CPU stretch it's legs properly just like Intel. BUT downside being, unlike their old CPUs these need real beefy cooling esp the top end parts.

 

Just like Intel i9 series Ryzen R9 needs a big AIO cooler to maximize it's clocks and performance however on AMD side now even R6 demands high end cooling as it also hits 90C+ on an AIO. That is somewhat problematic for Air cooler people and maybe those ITX owners. So basically now you get entry level you must get a big cooler you have lost the choice of going cheaper cooler with cheaper SKU. Intel is not like this an i7 12700K won't be this hot as 7700X or i5 12600K won't be as hot as 7600X, that's something.

 

Overclocking is probably non existent and dead given how hot the processors are, barely we can push I guess. How long can we even push when it already hits 95C out of box that too on a 360mm AIO, like Intel 11th and 12th gen this is also very very dense on heat. But it's basically not possible to OC much on this platform unlike Intel, but with Intel if you push it goes over 300W but the temps are controllable here we cannot... Memory also is also dependent on the 1:1 ratio modes, so if you hit 7000MHz the ratio will drop and we will have to see how it fares. With Intel it's all Gear 2. Pay more and try more and get HWBot points but nothing worth real performance boost  will be coming out of DDR5 in this cusp of it's introduction tbh from both camps.

 

ST and MT performance Ryzen 7000 (Raphael) Zen 4 design is the new IPC king. MT  like always AMD parts had extreme MT performance. Maybe Raptor Lake will match MT by a hair and beat on OC at extra 100W and some fun OCing, but that's it I do not see Intel beating out by a huge margin on that Intel 7 (10nm node) anymore on MT. I think RPL will beat this on ST with higher L2 and DLVR and clocks.

 

Gaming is just not a strong suite for top end 7950X but for 7700X and 7600X it is so it's an addon bonus you do not lose anything in gaming but as a total package you get a good strong gaming processor applies to entire stack. In RPCS3 I can see these totally dominate due to AVX512 without any offsets. EDIT - RPCS3 still Intel leads lol, I cannot understand how is it possible. TPU has it covered for RDR RPCS3 emulation.

 

High platform cost, X670E segmentation, high CPU cost like Intel as expected to be honest from DDR5 and PCIe5.0. And less % growth vs Ryzen 5000 is also another thing. So essentially all the Zen 3 owners have basically not much to even look at the growth and need to upgrade. But the IODie itself is a win now, that crappy USB issues should be gone from my understanding.

 

Future Proofing

New buyers should wait for next year and get them when price cuts as it doesn't make much worth right now same for GPUs as well. The platform is a new launch and has longevity upto Zen 5 vs Intel's 2 CPU/socket system, LGA1700 is done once Raptor Lake launches so even if 13600K adds more E cores the platform is gone and max is 13900K while AMD Ryzen 7600X means they can upgrade to 2-3 more SKUs but the price is they need to pay more to AMD than Intel Z690 / Z790 platform.

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The $699 Ryzen 9 7950X is 5% faster in gaming than Intel’s Core i9-12900K, but this chip is really designed for the productivity-minded. The 7950X was 44% faster than the Core i9-12900K in our multi-threaded tests, making it the most powerful desktop PC chip currently available. The Zen 4 architecture also closes the gap with Alder Lake in single-threaded applications, addressing a particularly glaring deficiency against Alder Lake.
 
5% faster than 12900K in games. But beaten by AMDs last years castrated 3D v-cashe chips. Oh'well. Can't offer everything.
 
It does well in 3DM Fire strike physics but fail in the same sub test in 3DM Time spy. What's that? Because AMD found it great/ideal that the new chips can only do SSE3 instructions for this bench.
 
image.png.45a2e071f72e105417ae46a52ad62296.png
 
 
 
 
 
image.png.cfb4323ef28cf59255ad2b94c2e08668.png
 
 
Amd Ryzen Zen4 overclock.......
 
For our manual overclocking efforts, we were a bit more ambitious. We initially shot for a lofty 5.5GHz all-core overclock at 1.35v, but we couldn't get the system stable. At this speed, the system booted, but the chip's temp would quickly shoot to 95°C as expected and under sustained load our rig would shut down. So, we backed the voltage and multiplier down incrementally and eventually settled into a 5.3GHz all-core overclock at only 1.3v, while also running the memory at DDR5-6000.
image.png.71227d2a6d6ee9e2a9c514d964a02c2b.png
 
 
LOOOL.....
image.thumb.png.d795364a82df4dd8d52e5d638f5515ad.png
 
And I'm quite sure the gamers on the Red side will say temps in gaming is more than OK sufficient even if the chips will warm up their room in an hot summer day, LOOL
image.thumb.png.c9e4b779506e68b0792c726b05443a67.png
 
I hope AMD will have a success with 7000 series Ryzen chips so they can push Intel to the brink regarding delivering performance/normal prices forwards. Only then the competition will works as it should. 
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2 hours ago, Papusan said:

You can do that also with Intel systems. But not a good idea for longevity of the chips. I expect same also for Ryzen 7000 series chips. A great idea if you want an new chips 🙂

 

oh yeah sure, i forgot that folks here focus on LONGEVITY OF THEIR HARDWARE! especially when benching their stuff to a micron of its life 🤣

 

@Ashtrix nice write up with detailed analysis as usual bro, good job

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45 minutes ago, Reciever said:

Going to be a lot of direct-die kits being sold for AM5 I imagine

That's good. There needs to be. It's good to see Roman is actually working on a delid tool for it. That IHS thickness wasn't very smart, but direct die is the best way to have good temps under any cirumstance.

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The average response time for a 911 call is 10 minutes. The response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

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28 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

That's good. There needs to be. It's good to see Roman is actually working on a delid tool for it. That IHS thickness wasn't very smart, but direct die is the best way to have good temps under any cirumstance.

considering it made existing AM4 coolers (mostly) compatible with AM5 it was a good move. and for most consumers not really something they would lose a thought about. us freaks will at least now still have the option to further unleash the beast 🙂 

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17 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

considering it made existing AM4 cooler (mostly) compatible with AM5 it was a good move. and for most consumers not really something they would lose a thought about. us freaks will at least now still have the option to further unleash the beast 🙂 

This is an area where they would do well to follow Intel's lead and stop worrying about silly people whining like bratty little girls about compatibility with old parts and just do whatever is best to make the new stuff work as well as possible. If it is not reasonably compatible because it can't be, it is better to focus on achieving the best outcome and let the chips fall where they may on the idea of re-using old parts. Making the IHS too thick to fill the gap to achieve the same z-height at the expense of the CPU running ridiculously hot is kind of silly. Saying 95°C is the new normal as an excuse is equally silly... and a disingenuous distraction from the fact that it is hotter than it should be, and that impairs performance.

 

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The average response time for a 911 call is 10 minutes. The response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

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Consolidated into one news thread, I need to bring the news side of things up on the forum so I may be making some changes there. 

 

@Ashtrix and @Papusan if you dont mind, I would love your comments to be moved over to the news thread linked here. Copy/Paste would do fine. To make things simpler you can use CTRL+SHIFT+V to paste as text. RichText copies everything verbatim.

 

Thanks guys

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9 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

This is an area where they would do well to follow Intel's lead and stop worrying about silly people whining like bratty little girls about compatibility with old parts and just do whatever is best to make the new stuff work as well as possible. If it is not reasonably compatible because it can't be, it is better to focus on achieving the best outcome and let the chips fall where they may on the idea of re-using old parts. Making the IHS too thick to fill the gap to achieve the same z-height at the expense of the CPU running ridiculously hot is kind of silly. Saying 95°C is the new normal as an excuse is equally silly... and a disingenuous distraction from the fact that it is hotter than it should be, and that impairs performance.

 

from their perspective its the other way around tho: that 95C is a set target to let the chip boost as much as possible to get the max performance out of a given cooling method. cpus becoming more and more like gpus with fluent boosting behaviour and set target temp. were still able to switch off that target and do manual tuning tho, so best of both worlds. always good to have options!

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24 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

from their perspective its the other way around tho: that 95C is a set target to let the chip boost as much as possible to get the max performance out of a given cooling method. cpus becoming more and more like gpus with fluent boosting behaviour and set target temp. were still able to switch off that target and do manual tuning tho, so best of both worlds. always good to have options!

That is still going to be a performance-limiting factor, just as it is for GPUs. Not being hot enough to kill the chip doesn't mean it is ideal. They can say that it is OK all they want to, and change the firmware to let it run that hot without throttling, but it will shorten the life of the silicon and will limit overclocking headroom as a matter of natural consequence. Taking the right steps to make it run cooler has no downside to it no matter how they want to spin the narrative. To present it as somehow being "optimized" to be functionally ideal while running 95°C is like something out of an NVIDIA playbook that is facetious even if their supporters choose to believe it. 

 

Getting a CPU, GPU or memory to run cooler never has any downside to it, and the cooler you can get it the longer it will last and the better it will overclock. There is no headroom available at 95°C. It is too close to the thermal junction maximum. One of the videos posted earlier actually demonstrates the problem. You can barely push the envelope and it goes into thermal shutdown mode. If you lower the temps by 20°C by correcting the engineering defect with a delid you are in much better shape in terms of overclocking potential than you were leaving it stock. In Roman's example the CPU automatically boosted higher all by itself and pulled fewer watts by dropping the temperatures to ~70-75°C with a delid.

 

Edit: We see a similar example of this with DDR5. The manufacturer says is it "good" with 80°C temperatures. They ignore the fact that the memory starts throwing errors and the system becomes unstable at 45-50°C and you have to either lower the clock speed or lower the temperature to regain stability lost by higher temperatures.

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The average response time for a 911 call is 10 minutes. The response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

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36 minutes ago, Reciever said:

Consolidated into one news thread, I need to bring the news side of things up on the forum so I may be making some changes there. 

 

@Ashtrix and @Papusan if you dont mind, I would love your comments to be moved over to the news thread linked here. Copy/Paste would do fine. To make things simpler you can use CTRL+SHIFT+V to paste as text. RichText copies everything verbatim.

 

Thanks guys

 

Not an issue but is it about not posting here or just want to have the info cross post ? I think most of the folks who even care about new products followed by posts about them is often in the benchmark thread thus this habit of mine writing pages of essay came from old NBR thread. Well, I can cut down on words but I think some of the information is useful.

 

Edit : Done, thanks.

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1 minute ago, Ashtrix said:

 

Not an issue but is it about not posting here or just want to have the info cross post ? I think most of the folks who even care about new products followed by posts about them is often in the benchmark thread at-least this habit of me writing pages of essay came from old NBR thread. Well, I can cut down on words but I think some of the information is useful.

No not at all, just that this release reminded me that the News aspect of this forum which was inherited from NBR was woefully underserved. So I will be making efforts to enhance that aspect ASAP for future news discussion

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27 minutes ago, Reciever said:

No not at all, just that this release reminded me that the News aspect of this forum which was inherited from NBR was woefully underserved. So I will be making efforts to enhance that aspect ASAP for future news discussion

What with benchmarks results posts? I mean they should be in this thread. Less post in this thread will make it dead. Not many post benchmarks so...

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Just now, Papusan said:

What with benchmarks results posts? I mean they should be in this thread. Less post in this thread will make it dead. Not many post benchmarks so...

Doubtful. This thread alone rivals half the forum combined, besides not asking to remove, simply to share your post in that thread as well. 

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9 minutes ago, Reciever said:

Doubtful. This thread alone rivals half the forum combined, besides not asking to remove, simply to share your post in that thread as well. 

Thats, ok. I normally use to do that if the content has to be put in more than one thread (Post the links and put with a small update/write up on the topic). Thanks.

 

Edit. Done.

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SK Hynix A-Die 🤠 7200 CL32 @ 1.4v VDD/ 1.34v VDDQ.

 

Just testing a bit now, just got home from a trip so 4 days to test/tune it. My previous M-Die could not do 7200 stable at all after testing 3x kits. 7000 is where they seemed to top out and usually required 1.55v BIOS to achieve. Really excited to see Raptor Lake launch today/tomorrow and hopefully even better IMCs. 

A-Die 7200 CL32.jpg

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Awesome. Congrats. Where did you get the A-die? Splave at HWBOT or somewhere else? I have been looking on eBay and not finding anything, and I am not willing to pay more than about $250 USD for a pair of 16GB sticks. 

 

What do the AIDA64 read/write/copy/latency numbers look like at 7200?

 

I have found M-die to typically cap out around 7000 as well with higher voltage, 6800 with less than 1.500V. 

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1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Awesome. Congrats. Where did you get the A-die? Splave at HWBOT or somewhere else? I have been looking on eBay and not finding anything, and I am not willing to pay more than about $250 USD for a pair of 16GB sticks. 

 

What do the AIDA64 read/write/copy/latency numbers look like at 7200?

 

I have found M-die to typically cap out around 7000 as well with higher voltage, 6800 with less than 1.500V. 

 

Sitting at around 113K Read, 103 Write and 102 Copy. 53ns. This is stock manual speed and primary timings set. I just updated the BIOS and lost my old profiles. 

 

I grabbed them from Splave and right now I'm questioning the value over a good cheap M-Die kit that can hit 7000 CL32. I think EVGA needs to update their BIOS to fully support A-Die because I'm having trouble getting anywhere near the 8000 CL32 booting he quoted me. I am testing 7400 CL32 at 1.5v VDD/1.4VDDQ at the moment but not stable yet. 

 

13th Gen Raptor Lake already listed on Newegg :icons8-face-with-tears-of-joy-100:

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i9-13900k-core-i9-13th-gen/p/N82E16819118412?Description=13900k&cm_re=13900k-_-19-118-412-_-Product

 

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i7-13700k-core-i7-13th-gen/p/N82E16819118414?Description=13700k&cm_re=13700k-_-19-118-414-_-Product

 

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-13600k-core-i5-13th-gen/p/N82E16819118416?Description=13600k&cm_re=13600k-_-19-118-416-_-Product

 

Well it was a good run Zen 4, it was a good run...

 

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5 hours ago, Talon said:

SK Hynix A-Die 🤠 7200 CL32 @ 1.4v VDD/ 1.34v VDDQ.

 

Just testing a bit now, just got home from a trip so 4 days to test/tune it. My previous M-Die could not do 7200 stable at all after testing 3x kits. 7000 is where they seemed to top out and usually required 1.55v BIOS to achieve. Really excited to see Raptor Lake launch today/tomorrow and hopefully even better IMCs. 

A-Die 7200 CL32.jpg

 

duuude, jealous! keep us updated on if u can reach that fabled 8000! for now ill settle with M-Die at 6800-7000 😛

 

2 hours ago, Talon said:

 

Sitting at around 113K Read, 103 Write and 102 Copy. 53ns. This is stock manual speed and primary timings set. I just updated the BIOS and lost my old profiles. 

 

I grabbed them from Splave and right now I'm questioning the value over a good cheap M-Die kit that can hit 7000 CL32. I think EVGA needs to update their BIOS to fully support A-Die because I'm having trouble getting anywhere near the 8000 CL32 booting he quoted me. I am testing 7400 CL32 at 1.5v VDD/1.4VDDQ at the moment but not stable yet. 

 

13th Gen Raptor Lake already listed on Newegg :icons8-face-with-tears-of-joy-100:

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i9-13900k-core-i9-13th-gen/p/N82E16819118412?Description=13900k&cm_re=13900k-_-19-118-412-_-Product

 

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i7-13700k-core-i7-13th-gen/p/N82E16819118414?Description=13700k&cm_re=13700k-_-19-118-414-_-Product

 

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-13600k-core-i5-13th-gen/p/N82E16819118416?Description=13600k&cm_re=13600k-_-19-118-416-_-Product

 

Well it was a good run Zen 4, it was a good run...

 

 

LOL i was wondering why u said RPL launch today/tomorrow, isnt their announcement still like a month away or so? in any case, good to know pricing already! is pretty much in line with the leaks.

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8 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

duuude, jealous! keep us updated on if u can reach that fabled 8000! for now ill settle with M-Die at 6800-7000 😛

 

 

LOL i was wondering why u said RPL launch today/tomorrow, isnt their announcement still like a month away or so? in any case, good to know pricing already! is pretty much in line with the leaks.

 

Announcement is today at 9am PDT. Street date is supposed to be Oct 20, but I am thinking it's possible Intel is pulling that date up a bit. Or allowing preorders to begin today. 

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2 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

Announcement is today at 9am PDT. Street date is supposed to be Oct 20, but I am thinking it's possible Intel is pulling that date up a bit. Or allowing preorders to begin today. 

 

ha, what a "coincidence" that its likely at the same time of Zen 4 shop availability 🤣 so predictable!

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28 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

ha, what a "coincidence" that its likely at the same time of Zen 4 shop availability 🤣 so predictable!

 

To be fair, Intel set the date and so did AMD, then AMD changed their review date embargos 2x for BIOS issues. I'm willing to bet it was more than likely some bios issues, but also some not wanting to give Intel all the data they need for an AM5 comparison for their launch presentation. All of these companies and their games. 

 

Latest Dark BIOS seems to have brought some stability to A-Die chips. Just finished up a few rounds of BF2042 at 7400 CL32 and now doing a longer stress test, will let it run for an hour or so and check for stability issues. Then back to gaming and regular use. Next stop 7600 CL32 lol. 

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