*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[tps3443]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I always use liquid metal under the IHS where the solder used to be. The only exception was with the Ryzen 5950X nightmare, which ran hotter after a delid because the chiplets were inconsistent height and there was no longer any solder plugging all the gaps and liquid metal doesn't work for that. Using thermal paste made the temps the same as stock solder (before delid).

 

Using liquid metal on top will absolutely yield better results than thermal paste, but I don't want to destroy the markings on the stock IHS. Maybe I will buy a broken 13th Gen CPU on eBay (something very low end like i5) and use the IHS. I could lap it and use liquid metal and keep the stock IHS looking new. When I had to lap one of the 12900K IHS due to the damage caused by the delid process that made a huge difference. But, the IHS was already destroyed so I had nothing to lose.

Maybe grab the Rockitcool copper IHS. I think they are like $30 dollars. I feel the same way though. I want to use LM on the IHS because I know it’ll drop temps off by about 5-8c but I hate to ruin my CPU. 
 

One more thing, have you checked your Optimus cold plate lately? They clog up really bad. Like really really bad. When I first installed my 13900KF I could barely cool it without the waterchiller running all the time. At 5.8Ghz and 1.315V it would hit 98C package temps, and I noticed temp degradation with my 11900K pretty bad too. After replacing the cold plate My 13900KF temps fell and only runs about 86C package temps. Both of my Optimus blocks have clogged up using just distilled water. When I bought the Z490 Dark/10900K/Optimus combo from you that cold plate was clogged too, not fully clogged but pretty clogged. If you haven’t already, I would highly recommend checking it. My water flow has more than doubled since installing a brand new cold plate. And I have the old one cleaned and ready to go in 6 months when this one clogs too.

 

Honestly, I love the Optimus block but I hate the clogging of the cold plates. I’m tempted to switch blocks, my 3090KP waterblock fins have not clogged up at all. I’d maybe see one little piece that was stuck through the clear plexi, but nothing that degraded performance. I don’t understand why distilled water and merely corrosion inhibitors can clog up a waterblock. But the Optimus cold plates are so fine you can’t even drag a needle through them without the needle getting stuck. 

[Clamibot]

16 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Maybe grab the Rockitcool copper IHS. I think they are like $30 dollars. I feel the same way though. I want to use LM on the IHS because I know it’ll drop temps off by about 5-8c but I hate to ruin my CPU. 
 

One more thing, have you checked your Optimus cold plate lately? They clog up really bad. Like really really bad. When I first installed my 13900KF I could barely cool it without the waterchiller running all the time. At 5.8Ghz and 1.315V it would hit 98C package temps, and I noticed temp degradation with my 11900K pretty bad too. After replacing the cold plate It runs about 86C package temps. Both of my Optimus blocks have clogged up using just distilled water. When I bought the Z490 Dark/10900K/Optimus combo from you that cold plate was clogged too, not fully clogged but pretty clogged. If you haven’t already, I would highly recommend checking it. My water flow has more than doubled since installing a brand new cold plate. And I have the old one cleaned and ready to go in 6 months when this one clogs too.

 

Would coldplate clogging be a problem for AIOs as well? I've only ever used AIOs, never any custom loops. Funnily enough, my MasterLiquid ML360 Sub-Zero is the first AIO I've ever had. I've only ever done air cooling prior to it.

[Papusan]

35 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

 

Would coldplate clogging be a problem for AIOs as well? I've only ever used AIOs, never any custom loops. Funnily enough, my MasterLiquid ML360 Sub-Zero is the first AIO I've ever had. I've only ever done air cooling prior to it.

The pump in AIOs sit directly above the cold plate. I expect this help to reduce the clogging. And they use liquid that fits the cooling. And the metal alloy in the AIO components is matched. 

[tps3443]

47 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

 

Would coldplate clogging be a problem for AIOs as well? I've only ever used AIOs, never any custom loops. Funnily enough, my MasterLiquid ML360 Sub-Zero is the first AIO I've ever had. I've only ever done air cooling prior to it.

I have never seen the problem. It’s only Optimus blocks. You’ve gotta understand that the Optimus cold plate design is a micro fin design. It’s so fine that it creates an artifact in pictures. You can’t even photograph it properly. You can barely fit a piece of paper through the fins. They clog up overtime and heavily restrict water flow. Most waterblocks are not designed like this. I don’t think an AIO would ever have this problem. I have never had a waterblock clog like this before.
 

Even a brand new one is extremely restrictive. The most restrictive waterblock made probably. Clean distilled water flowing through this overtime, and it will filter it to death and some. If you want a clean loop. Run your distilled water with a Optimus block then replace the cold plate in 6 months. You won’t have more pure water than that! LOLZ
 

 

[Mr. Fox]

11 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Maybe grab the Rockitcool copper IHS. I think they are like $30 dollars. I feel the same way though. I want to use LM on the IHS because I know it’ll drop temps off by about 5-8c but I hate to ruin my CPU. 

Does not work with the contact frame and I don't want to use the stock ILM. Copper is also inferior to nickel surfaces when using liquid metal. 

11 hours ago, tps3443 said:

One more thing, have you checked your Optimus cold plate lately? They clog up really bad. Like really really bad. When I first installed my 13900KF I could barely cool it without the waterchiller running all the time. At 5.8Ghz and 1.315V it would hit 98C package temps, and I noticed temp degradation with my 11900K pretty bad too. After replacing the cold plate My 13900KF temps fell and only runs about 86C package temps. Both of my Optimus blocks have clogged up using just distilled water.

Yes, it's clean.  I no longer use the Signature blocks because of the solid metal unibody housing. I prefer the clear plexi top on the Foundation so I can visually monitor the cleanliness of the cold plate.

[tps3443]

Just now, Mr. Fox said:

Does not work with the contact frame and I don't want to use the stock ILM. Cooper also infterior to nickle surfaces when using liquid metal. 

Your kidding.. The Rocket cool IHS doesn’t fit the thermalright frame? I had no idea. Glad I didn’t buy it then. 
 

Update: Force rating has dropped to 129.
I guess the CPU is nice and burned in now.

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 minute ago, tps3443 said:

Your kidding.. The Rocket cool IHS doesn’t fit the thermalright frame? I had no idea. Glad I didn’t buy it then. 
 

Update: Force rating has dropped to 129.
I guess the CPU is nice and burned in now.

 

 

 

That can happen with ASUS SP ratings sometimes as well. It's only a tool. While it is useful for some things, it is not a 100% reliable indicator of results. I wouldn't worry about that number changing too much. At the end of the day, results are what matter. Not a rating assigned based on a programmed algorithm... GIGO.

[johnksss]

37 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Your kidding.. The Rocket cool IHS doesn’t fit the thermalright frame? I had no idea. Glad I didn’t buy it then. 
 

Update: Force rating has dropped to 129.
I guess the CPU is nice and burned in now.

 

 

 

Some did report that the CPU Force 2 Rating changes, but could be based on cooling. Who knows.... As MSI doesn't seem keen on explaining in depth how it works.... Although I guess I would need to actually ask them first.

[tps3443]

34 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

That can happen with ASUS SP ratings sometimes as well. It's only a tool. While it is useful for some things, it is not a 100% reliable indicator of results. I wouldn't worry about that number changing too much. At the end of the day, results are what matter. Not a rating assigned based on a programmed algorithm... GIGO.

Hey lower is better with MSI. So I’ll take it.

 

2 minutes ago, johnksss said:

Some did report that the CPU Force 2 Rating changes, but could be based on cooling. Who knows.... As MSi doesn't seem keen on explaining in depth how it works.

What happen with your Unify X? You going to keep using it after the repair?
 

[electrosoft]

Binning 7x 4090's..... wish he had binned the memory too and with more sustained tests but still interesting. That first MSI TRIO was a serious outlier pulling ~50-65w less.

 

 

[johnksss]

6 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Hey lower is better with MSI. So I’ll take it.

 

What happen with your Unify X? You going to keep using it after the repair?
 

I'm pretty sure it was user error this time. Meaning my fault and not the fault of the board itself. (Board is in RMA - So sitting at MSI right now) So not sure. If it gets fixed or replace, cool. If not then I'll probably grab the Z790 APEX or the Z790 Dark as I am not sure if they are coming out with a Unify-X Z790.....

[Mr. Fox]

28 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Hey lower is better with MSI. So I’ll take it.

Yeah, but it changed and unless your CPU changed that should have remained constant. With the ASUS SP ratings, I haven't seen accuracy in the voltage predictions, and they also change. At best, it is a ballpark calculation. I have found the voltage required for stability was always higher or lower than the prediction. You know you have a good sample based on the results you are getting, so the ASUS SP rating or MSI Force number doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. These numbers are useful for identifying defective trash CPU samples than need to be RMA'd though. They do not identify whether or not your IMC is good or garbage. 

 

Having a screenshot showing the ASUS SP rating is also good for resale value because some peope place tremendous stock in that number.

[johnksss]

38 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Binning 7x 4090's..... wish he had binned the memory too and with more sustained tests but still interesting. That first MSI TRIO was a serious outlier pulling ~50-65w less.

 

 

You are right, wish he would have actually tried the memory as the some are far better than others, but it's like to 20 series in laptops. To much memory takes from the power you have for the core and thus causes the card to either run out of watts before the core can reach full potential or crash.

 

Not really sure what sitting at a screen accomplishes, but ok. I'm in.

[Mr. Fox]

29 minutes ago, johnksss said:

Not really sure what sitting at a screen accomplishes, but ok. I'm in.

I am not following you, but maybe I missed something along the way. What are you referring to here, brother John?

 

Anybody tried this yet? https://store.steampowered.com/app/1472250/ROG_CITADEL_XV/ (it's free)

 

This freebie ends tomorrow. https://store.steampowered.com/sale/vermintide2giveaway So, grab it before it's gone. I didn't want Vermintide enough to bother buying it, but it is fun to play now that it is free. Now I can see why my son that enjoys it so much likes playing it.

[johnksss]

35 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am not following you, but maybe I missed something along the way. What are you referring to here, brother John?

 

Anybody tried this yet? https://store.steampowered.com/app/1472250/ROG_CITADEL_XV/ (it's free)

 

This freebie ends tomorrow. So, grab it before it's gone. I didn't want Vermintide enough to bother buying it, but it is fun to play now that it is free. Now I can see why my son that enjoys it so much likes playing it.

Sitting at a menu screen is not the same as actually sitting where things are happening. And windowed mode is less taxing than full screen 4k mode. It gives a fake sense of you having something good, but in reality it's not.  speculations of course...I could be talking out the side of my neck.😂

CyberPunk 2077..... Lasted 28 seconds before it crashed with me trying to make it to the city.😂

 

[tps3443]

12 minutes ago, johnksss said:

Sitting at a menu screen is not the same as actually sitting where things are happening. And windowed mode is less taxing than full screen 4k mode. It gives a fake sense of you having something good, but in reality it's not.  speculations of course...I could be talking out the side of my neck.😂

CyberPunk 2077..... Lasted 28 seconds before it crashed with me trying to make it to the city.😂

 

Do you run your chiller daily? That’s how I do it anyways. 

[johnksss]

1 minute ago, tps3443 said:

Do you run your chiller daily? That’s how I do it anyways. 

Chiller for CPU or 4090 GPU?

[tps3443]

3 hours ago, johnksss said:

Chiller for CPU or 4090 GPU?

The cpu or GPU.

[Papusan]

Had a trip to the second hand market at home. Look what I found...🙂 Aqua Computer flow sensor, high flow NEXT (tested by igorslab). And well below half the price of a new. So I submitted a purchase request🙂 Almost all parts was sold out from the seller, so it was nice that the flow meter still was for sale.

 

The new one from today is one of the worst I have seen. Killed even the GPU power connector. How many have a ticking New Years bomb from nvidia home?😀 Yep, I'm quite sure there will be some that will see some nice fireballs and smoke well before New Years Eve fireworks show. 

4090 RTX Gigabyte adapter cable burned in the power port for the 4090

[jaybee83]

On 11/5/2022 at 7:03 PM, tps3443 said:

 

The 7900XTX is gonna really be awesome. I just wish these manufacturers could get enough of them out there in to everyone’s hands. Nvidia is literally milking supply of RTX4090 to artificially inflate the price. So right now the RTX4090 is roughly $2,000 bucks+ taxes it’s even more to buy one online. I’m gonna say about $2,300 after taxes and shipping.

 

Now with the 7900XTX costing $999, it’s only gonna end up being $1,500+ taxes on eBay maybe more due to no inventory and scalpers.
 

GPU manufacturers lived on a high of 2 years selling GPU’s at any price they wanted. Nvidia only learned how to control the market better. The 7900XTX will only fill the niche of what the RTX4090 actually cost on paper. AMD is not good with GPU inventory lol.

 

In the end we will have the $2,000 dollar 4090. Or the $1,500 dollar 7900XTX lol.

Take your pick!

 

yep, Nvidia is already rerouting AD102 chips towards their pro and server brands, naturally way more margin plus more oncentives for impatient buyers to get 30 series cards that are still in stock everywhere.

lets hope AMD will be capable and also willing to keep RDNA3 in stock. they could potentially profit a lot with Nvidia being their usual dicks 😋

 

On 11/5/2022 at 8:59 PM, electrosoft said:

 

We are less than a month into 4090 launch and unlike Ampere no Cryptoboom or Pandemic with which to contend. While you can't get a, "NOW NOW NOW!" on it, by Jan/Feb they will be available. Even if Nvidia is artificially holding them back, demand is nowhere near of the sustained levels of 2020-2021 where supply never could catch up to demand as you had miners snatching up anything to throw into a rig even at grossly inflated costs.

 

The market will adjust.

 

It just feels like a mild case of PTSD because of before but this is NOTHING like then.

 

 

 

 

 

PTSD for sure. out of curiosity i looked around the market in Europe for 4090s and its slim pickings at best. basically only scalpers on ebay and douchebag shops trying to make a quick buck. i mean, stock and offers is THERE, but not anywhere near MSRP. as best i can tell, on average were talking roughly 500-700€ above MSRP.

boy am i glad i got my Surprim X right at launch for exactly MSRP. at launch nobody thought anybody would buy the 4090 after the pandemic bloat and mining crash, so MSRP pricing was abound. now for similar pricing (or rather 50€ more) u can only get "trashy" cards by Manli and Inno3D 😅

 

On 11/5/2022 at 9:25 PM, Papusan said:

4090 is the only ADA card launched. There isn't any other options if you want a brand new card. And new cards also means people will fight to get the cards first. Aka prices will go up above MSRP. At release/launch day I coud get a card a hell lot cheaper than what they cost now. But once the card was out for over a week or so the prices went up. Thats the  normal with a launch. The first one to buy have to pay higher prices. This is how the game is.

 

Once AMD is out with their new cards and nvidia launch 4080 there will be easier and easier to get 4090. And at more normal prices. The worst problem for me is what models that will be available. I don't want jump on a model I don't like or want. Then I will rather sit and wait what to come.

 

 

 

yep, exactly my experience with 4090 shopping.

lets hope so with upcoming availability and pricing. first AMD has to prove itself in 3rd party reviews, we dont want another big fat nothing burger....

 

20 hours ago, Papusan said:

I just open the door so fresh air come in. But 13900K run quite ok regarding temps as long you don't max it out. A lot better than Alder lake. And yet, my bin is about average or slightly above. I think I will gain from adding a second pump. Will see if I find one used and cheap. I have a spare pump but the pump tops is ecual expensive as a new pump, so. 

 

Jep. I have seen some with good gain from delidding and some not. I think much is up to how good the soldering was done from Intel.

 

Regarding AMD. I mean if you have an AMD graphics card the Cpu scores will be lower in many benches. Have seen it myself (intel cpu and AMD graphics). Not sure whats up with AMD. Maybe I do something wrong, but I don't think so. So from what I have seen, I avoid this brand. Even if benches was a bit better than Intel. The Red pill just doesn't fit me 🙂

 

huh i havent heard about that cpu perf issue when running AMD gpus, that sounds weird! and cant speak from experience, the last AMD gpu i had was a 7970M in a laptop 😄

 

19 hours ago, Papusan said:

Really stupid move from Intel put resistors and capacitors mounted so close to the IHS. They know very well that a lot people delidde their Cpus. Only hardcore benchers on sub cooling don't delidde because liquid metal is bad on sub zero temps. Sub zero means only Intels tim is usable.

 

Edit. Good job bro Fox on the job 🙂

 

And for @tps3443He should forget sell his chips if he delidde it. Can't be used for LN2 then.

 

ha, tell ME about it in terms of stupid SMDs on cpus @7950X 😂 however, from what ive seen so far it might be more worth it to delid Zen4 vs. RPL. but so far no plans for delidding yet, still have to improve case airflow first before i do anything else.

as for delidding bad for LN2: dont XOC benchers delid anyways and completely fill up the package under the IHS with thermal paste? iirc the basically fill up every nook n cranny to improve overall heat transfer, i.e. even package gives off a bit of "side heat" that can be siphoned off to help overall thermals.

 

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

The pump in AIOs sit directly above the cold plate. I expect this help to reduce the clogging. And they use liquid that fits the cooling. And the metal alloy in the AIO components is matched. 

 

good info, noted!

 

7 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Does not work with the contact frame and I don't want to use the stock ILM. Copper also infterior to nickle surfaces when using liquid metal. 

Yes, it's clean.  I no longer use the Signature blocks because of the solid metal uniody housing. I prefer the clear plexi top on the Foundation so I can visually monitor the cleanliness of the cold plate.

 

yep good decision. the full copper IHS brings at best only 1-3C improvement vs. stock whereas the ILM can provide 7-8C on avg and up to 15C in outlier cases. so net one is better off going stock IHS + contact frame.

as for naked copper vs. nickel plated copper i dont think theres much difference with LM, at least not once u ensure the naked copper is surface saturated with LM first to avoid dryout.

 

6 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Binning 7x 4090's..... wish he had binned the memory too and with more sustained tests but still interesting. That first MSI TRIO was a serious outlier pulling ~50-65w less.

 

 

 

cool, bookmarked! will watch right after im done posting 🙂

 

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Had a trip to the second hand market at home. Look what I found...🙂 Aqua Computer flow sensor, high flow NEXT (tested by igorslab).Well below half price of a new. So I submitted a purchase request🙂 Almost all parts was sold out from the seller, so it was nice that the flow meter still was for sale.

 

The new one from today is one of the worst I have seen. Killed even the GPU power connector. How many have a ticking New Years bomb from nvidia home?😀 Yep, I'm quite sure there will be some that will see some nice fireballs and smoke well before New Years Eve fireworks show. 

4090 RTX Gigabyte adapter cable burned in the power port for the 4090

 

dammnit Papu ill unplug my 4090 right after i return home from my honeymoon to check on the pins 😱😅 there was a guy on overclock.net who went completely paranoid and unplugges his 4090 every single day to check on the pins. until je realized that doing so might actually bring about the connector demise much faster due to accumulating plugging cycles 😂

[Mr. Fox]

27 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

yep good decision. the full copper IHS brings at best only 1-3C improvement vs. stock whereas the ILM can provide 7-8C on avg and up to 15C in outlier cases. so net one is better off going stock IHS + contact frame.

as for naked copper vs. nickel plated copper i dont think theres much difference with LM, at least not once u ensure the naked copper is surface saturated with LM first to avoid dryout.

I have used liquid metal on raw copper for years without issue. That is the only option available on laptops. You're correct that once it gets saturated and no longer absorbing the liquid metal there's no meaningful difference between the two in terms of performance. However, a high quality nickel-plated surface is preferable for ease of maintenance. You don't get the hard clumps of liquid metal that have to be sanded off like you do on copper. On the plus side, liquid metal is more likely to stay exactly where you place it on raw copper, versus the slippery nickel surface.  Given a choice between the two, I would choose the nickel.

[johnksss]

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

The cpu or GPU.

CPU is on the chiller while the GeForce RTX™ 4090 SUPRIM LIQUID X 24G is an AIO.

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

as for delidding bad for LN2: dont XOC benchers delid anyways and completely fill up the package under the IHS with thermal paste? iirc the basically fill up every nook n cranny to improve overall heat transfer, i.e. even package gives off a bit of "side heat" that can be siphoned off to help overall thermals.

The best thermal paste in the world can't compete with solder. If you remember the old day with etc i7-3770K... Changing Intel's paste with liquid metal was more like +20C improvement. But LN2 benchers had to use the best thermal paste as replacement.

 

Isn't it nice with support? Be happy we hav only one supplier for vRam for new modern high end Nvidia graphics cards😀 I would imagine bro Fox or bro John would be perplecs/angry if they saw the support have run the vram lottery, HaHa

 

Different brand of memory on a single GPU, will there be any issue?

 

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5115710_papusan_cinebench___r23_multi_core_with_benchmate_core_i9_13900k_(8p)_25755_cb

And this is results from AMD's brand new 8 core flagship... It's the Zen moment, LOOL 

 

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5115747_papusan_pifast_core_i9_13900k_9sec_20ms

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Not a single word (public announcement) from Nvidia. But their AIB partners will swap the adapters. I wonder whom gave them this instrucs. Nvidia themself? I think Nvidia's support team sit in their hole trying to figure out ways to "how they can talk this down".  

 

Looks like 4090 cables are being replaced.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/yodzba/looks_like_4090_cables_are_being_replaced/

 

[Mr. Fox]

In this video Tony reballs a GPU core.

 

[Talon]

6 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

In this video Tony reballs a GPU core.

 

 

I love watching this guys videos. Entertaining and informative stuff.