*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[tps3443]

MORE PUMPS!!! I ordered (2) of these here pictured below. EKWB 300MM D5. One of them has arrived so far. I bought them used/open box on eBay. $165 each. 
 

I’ll have (4) D5’s turning on my setup together lol. I may only use (3) and just remove that Alphacool VPP755.V3 (Since it is an odd ball out) We’ll see how it goes. So far this one looks brand-new though. I wanted a tall/large reservoir pump so bad, and I finally got one. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Rage Set]

Steve at GN made an interesting point in his News video. With MSI Afterburner not being supported by the developer any longer and EVGA not really supporting Precision X, what will Nvidia GPU owners use to overclock future cards or worse, current cards? 

[tps3443]

1 minute ago, Rage Set said:

Steve at GN made an interesting point in his News video. With MSI Afterburner not being supported by the developer any longer and EVGA not really supporting Precision X, what will Nvidia GPU owners use to overclock future cards or worse, current cards? 

MSI AB was dated and 32bit only. It could not monitor more than (16) cores. It has been like that forever. Maybe someone will make a better app.

[Papusan]

On 1/19/2023 at 6:18 AM, Papusan said:

Regarding greed and stupidity... Apple ain't far away from how Intel and AMD. They take greed to another level....

 

 

TRADE IN?
Apple will offer you $970 for a $52,000 Mac Pro Cheese grater techspot.com

 

David Imel, a researcher for tech YouTube channel Marques Brownlee, tweeted that they tried pricing the $52,199 Mac Pros at the company's office to determine their trade-in value. The machines can still be purchased from Apple's website, complete with Intel Xeon W processors and dual Radeon Pro W6800X graphics, for the same price, so one would expect Apple to offer a fair amount of that money for trade-ins. Sadly, the company thinks $970 is a fair amount.

 

 

Isnt it cute... You can order the Apple's Cheese grater today and trade it in tomorrow for a fraction of the price you paid. This even if you never opened the package and tested the fancy Cheese grater. This just show how  much todays tech is worth 🙂

 

Apple continue their sick engineering/developement. 

 

 

Apple Silicon Mac Pro Will Not Support External Graphic Cards, But Its Own GPU Is Said To Be Plentiful

Apple is reportedly taking multiple steps back as far as the user upgradeability goes on the company’s Mac Pro. In addition to not being able to upgrade the RAM, customers will also not be able to hook up external GPUs sporting a PCIe slot. However, it is possible that Apple is locking out external GPU support because the Mac Pro’s own solution will be more than capable.

19 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Whats the point with all the power phases when the cards crap out at around 3000MHz? At least Der8auer lost in the silicon lottery for his 4090 AORUS Master review sample. And 3015MHz is about as low you can get. Then you have the software... One of the worst out there?

 

 

 

For me... I don't put any 4090 card in the shopping cart. Because the 4090 Strix OC is still difficult to get.

 

1 hour ago, Rage Set said:

Steve at GN made an interesting point in his News video. With MSI Afterburner not being supported by the developer any longer and EVGA not really supporting Precision X, what will Nvidia GPU owners use to overclock future cards or worse, current cards? 

See my point above about awful software.... Software will be more and more important if 3rd party tuning software won't get or have support or just won't work. Good OEM tuning software will be more and more important if all other options will fade away/vanish. Be stuck with trash and buggy OEM software to be able to tune own HW will be difficult to accept. You need more than awesome HW. Not be able to use it the way it was meant because the software can't be used, make the fancy new HW rendered useless. All you sit with, is an expensive gaming toy with loads of bling bling and nice fancy blinking colors.

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Rage Set said:

Steve at GN made an interesting point in his News video. With MSI Afterburner not being supported by the developer any longer and EVGA not really supporting Precision X, what will Nvidia GPU owners use to overclock future cards or worse, current cards? 

 

It's surprising overclocking features are not directly available in the Windows control panel. Here is roughly what this looks like on Linux:

 

 

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

It's surprising overclocking features are not directly available in the Windows control panel. Here is roughly what this looks like on Linux:

 

 

AMD offer OC and tuning in own software.... https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/software-performance

 

And this isn't the best option... Just read my previous post about AMD cripple 3rd party software that works better. See post below. 

On 1/24/2023 at 8:59 PM, Papusan said:

AMD don't want to cater to the performance enhusiasts anymore. All is about giving their main audience (their high core gamer kids) what they ask for.... Fancy Gaming toools. AMD go all in for fully locked hardware. Processors or graphichs cards they, all suffer from same target "Fully locked down". @Mr. Fox are you still keen on jumping on the Red sides hardware a last time? It seems everything AMD put their hands on nowadays turns into a disaster. 

 

No RDNA 3 Update for More Power Tool, Says Developer tomshardware.com

 

Locking down the power tables

 

When AMD first indicated that it locked the power play tables(opens in new tab) on its latest Radeon RX 7000-series graphics processors a month ago, it meant one popular overclocking method was not supported at the time. Now, it looks like AMD has completely locked down manipulations of the power play tables with its RDNA 3 GPUs. That means the More Power Tool utility(opens in new tab) will not be able to support the new cards, and overclocking will be essentially limited to AMD's Adrenalin software.

 

"[When it comes to power play tables], pretty much everything is double and triple secured," one of the More Power Tools developers wrote, reports CapFrameX. "[To make things work,] we would have to rewrite firmware and drivers, and we cannot do that. Not even under Linux. So, there will be no MPT for RDNA3. AMD really screwed it up this time."

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

This is the symptoms of todays tech. From worse to even more worse (quality)(QC). Make cheaper products that the average Joe is happy to buy. We live in sad days bro @Ashtrix More and more cheapo junk will be thrown out to "cut costs". And we will see more of this in the future. AMD even have to lock out overclocking from their modern gaming processors so they don't go up into fire. Yep, very fragile. Equal fragile as Samsungs new "Pro branded" ssd's. They can barely be used the ways it was meant to be used. Samsung should have removed the "Pro" branding of their best ssd's. And same for AMD... The X moniker in the Cpu SKU name is very misleading. Some think its all about eXtreme. But thats not correct for Ryzen or/and AMD products. The should instead used FL = Fully Locked.

 

 

[Etern4l]

8 minutes ago, Papusan said:

AMD offer OC and tuning in own software.... https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/software-performance

 

And this isn't the best option... Just read my previous post about AMD cripple 3rd party software that works better.

 

To be fair Nvidia doesn't cripple anything. In fact on Linux (and maybe Windows, I'm not sure) you can do even more fine grained overclocking, e.g. separate offsets per each of the "performance level",  using nvidia-settings command line tool.

 

AMD I guess.

[Papusan]

11 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

To be fair Nvidia doesn't cripple anything. In fact on Linux (and maybe Windows, I'm not sure) you can do even more fine grained overclocking, e.g. separate offsets per each of the "performance level",  using nvidia-settings command line tool.

 

AMD I guess.

When better tools from other OEM won't work on its competitors cards, 3rd party tools don't work, you are forced to use own buggy/useless OEMs software or even castrated software from the HW manufacturer (meant for all AIC partners cards), new modern fancy software from Redmond.... This doesn't bode well. This smells as a coming disaster. We are already there with laptops and desktop hardware. Todays graphics cards is already castrated vs. what it could have been out from the factory. And then you have the castrating a few years after you bought your graphics cards. A nice new way to push you over on next new modern that will be equal destroyed later. 

[Etern4l]

59 minutes ago, Papusan said:

When better tools from other OEM won't work on its competitors cards, 3rd party tools don't work, you are forced to use own buggy/useless OEMs software or even castrated software from the HW manufacturer (meant for all AIC partners cards), new modern fancy software from Redmond.... This doesn't bode well. This smells as a coming disaster. We are already there with laptops and desktop hardware. Todays graphics cards is already castrated vs. what it could have been out from the factory. And then you have the castrating a few years after you bought your graphics cards. A nice new way to push you over on next new modern that will be equal destroyed later. 

 

Well, again seems AMD-specific fortunately. In the end, all 3rd party tools rely on the HW manufacturer's drivers/API anyway. If the HW manufacturer decides to limit/cripple/lock down overclocking, that will be it. All we can do is vote with our wallets - Azor-powered AMD is making the vote pretty straightforward on the GPU side.

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, Rage Set said:

Steve at GN made an interesting point in his News video. With MSI Afterburner not being supported by the developer any longer and EVGA not really supporting Precision X, what will Nvidia GPU owners use to overclock future cards or worse, current cards? 

Galax and Zotac and PNY have overclocking tools that are standalone products and not UWP feces, and they work with other brands. There is also value left in NVIDIA Inspector. So, there will still be alternatives. It is heart-wrenching that EVGA is no longer in the mix. Aside from their superior hardware, I actually used PX1 more than Afterburner. It is a better product. My use of Afterburner has been limited for a good while. Even when I was still benching laptops, I thought EVGA Precision was more effective. But, it is still very sad that MSI Afterburner is probably going away.

 

It seems like NVIDIA doesn't care or doesn't want end users to have the ability to overclock. It probably makes it harder for them to distiguish new products as superior when there is not a big improvement. If you can overclock a X070 to make it look like a X080 or a X080 to make it run like a X090 it is harder to demonstrate value in the more expensive part. Putting things in a box maximizes profit potential for them. By limiting the current generation flagship they create extra space for the next generation flagship to look better than last generation's flagship product than it would if last generation's flagship could run wild and free. Smoke and mirrors, and masterful execution on the art of deception.

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

To be fair Nvidia doesn't cripple anything. In fact on Linux (and maybe Windows, I'm not sure) you can do even more fine grained overclocking, e.g. separate offsets per each of the "performance level",  using nvidia-settings command line tool.

 

AMD I guess.

They do cripple things. Lack of voltage control is the primary way they do it. They develop robust products with great potential and then limit the potential so they can offer different tiers of performance (for more money) without having to change much in terms of hardware. Just manipulate results using firmware. Easy money by screwing the end user.  And, still better than anything AMD has to offer.

 

NVIDIA Control Panel in Windows used to be like Linux with overclock controls. Now it is very limited and includes nothing for overclocking. Overclocking without voltage control and uncapped power limits offers very little opportunity for superior results. If your GPU silicon is poor quality, you have no voltage headroom. If it is better than average you can use up the excess voltage available in the firmware, but you are still severely limited in terms of how far you can go without more voltage.  

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

When better tools from other OEM won't work on its competitors cards, 3rd party tools don't work, you are forced to use own buggy/useless OEMs software or even castrated software from the HW manufacturer (meant for all AIC partners cards), new modern fancy software from Redmond.... This doesn't bode well. This smells as a coming disaster. We are already there with laptops and desktop hardware. Todays graphics cards is already castrated vs. what it could have been out from the factory. And then you have the castrating a few years after you bought your graphics cards. A nice new way to push you over on next new modern that will be equal destroyed later. 

The root problem is a lack of integrity, absence of principle and generally unacceptable business practices in the computing space, and those that suffer most from the unethical behavior are the enthusiasts that are getting screwed harder than any other consumer demographic.

  

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

All we can do is vote with our wallets - Azor-powered AMD is making the vote pretty straightforward on the GPU side.

100%. The only way to effect change is by deliberately and maliciously inflicting severe financial harm, and that is hard to do when you're outnumbered by brain-dead sheeple that are as dumb as a box of rocks. These are the same morons that view themselves as being informed and enlightened because they read "news" headlines and believe they have all the facts. You know you're scraping the bottom of the barrel when the only reason NVIDIA is awesome is because AMD sucks. We know this is true because that's what the clever marketing materials tell us, and our "friends" on  Facebook say so. That's no way to live.

[tps3443]

MASSIVE difference in GPU temps since adding another D5! My 3090KP HC with the 1KW bios is 29c at 460+ watts during gameplay lol. Most importantly is how effective my chiller actually works now. I feel like it has been converted from 1/2HP to 3/4HP. It is actually turning off during gameplay because it reaches the set desired temp point so quickly. Normally it would just run forever during games. This was the first thing I noticed right away. 
 

I’ve got a D5 on the inlet and D5 on the outlet of my chiller, and a D5 underneath my components for additional head pressure. The difference on a chiller when adding (3) D5’s is very substantial! (2) D5’s and chiller is not enough. I do not have any radiators or fans in my system. Chiller and pumps only. 
 

CPU temps look to be identical during something like R23 etc. But during gameplay everything is lower. Because my chiller can maintain a far cooler water temp. 
 

This is KDC at 460+ watts and 29C. it’s crazy my chiller is literally capable of so much more under sustained heavy loads. If I loaded the normal 520KP bios on here, the GPU would run even cooler. 

 

[Mr. Fox]

13 hours ago, Papusan said:

Apple continue their sick engineering/developement. 

 

 

And, the Children of the Beast rejoiced and were exceedingly glad. They feasted on feces, sang and danced, "Hail to the Lord of the Flies, the Father of Lies, the Prince of Darkness, for his evil endures to all generations."

[johnksss]

Happy birthday brother Fox @Mr. Fox

[Mr. Fox]

1 minute ago, johnksss said:

Happy birthday brother Fox @Mr. Fox

Thanks, Brother John. ♥️ The big 6-0. That just doesn't even seem possible... totally surreal. I'm glad I don't feel 60.

[johnksss]

Just now, Mr. Fox said:

Thanks, Brother John. ♥️ The big 6-0. That just doesn't even seem possible... totally surreal. I'm glad I don't feel 60.

Well I sure as hell feel all of 55 right now! 😂

[Mr. Fox]

9 minutes ago, johnksss said:

Well I sure as hell feel all of 55 right now! 😂

Always remember... Fernando says...

[Papusan]

16 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Galax and Zotac and PNY have overclocking tools that are standalone products and not UWP feces, and they work with other brands

Worthless if the OEM as etc Zotac follow Nvidia and washing their hands

16 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

They do cripple things. Lack of voltage control is the primary way they do it.

Also my Zotac 980 Ti Amp Extrme had voltage adjustments. 87mv for more voltage control. Now in newer drivers... Gooner.

16 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

NVIDIA Control Panel in Windows used to be like Linux with overclock controls. Now it is very limited and includes nothing for overclocking. Overclocking without voltage control and uncapped power limits offers very little opportunity for superior results.

Most OEM offer a few mv for voltage control. But worthless if Nvidia say they have to jump.

 

And this is for you my old friend❤️ Happy Birthday bro Fox.

 

5 hours ago, johnksss said:

Well I sure as hell feel all of 55 right now! 😂

I'm the middleman. Older than you but younger than bro Fox🙂 Best of both worlds?😆

[Mr. Fox]

13 minutes ago, Papusan said:

And this is for you my old friend❤️ Happy Birthday bro Fox.

Thanks, Brother Papusan.  ❤️ 

 

[Raiderman]

6 hours ago, johnksss said:

Well I sure as hell feel all of 55 right now! 😂

Same age brother @johnksss

[Raiderman]

Happy Birthday brother @Mr. Fox

[Etern4l]

On 1/26/2023 at 2:18 PM, Mr. Fox said:

 

 

 

Intel 'stumbled,' CEO says; shares drop 9.5% as loss forecast

Wondering where the cuts will fall first... 

[electrosoft]

7 hours ago, johnksss said:

Happy birthday brother Fox @Mr. Fox

 

7 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thanks, Brother John. ♥️ The big 6-0. That just doesn't even seem possible... totally surreal. I'm glad I don't feel 60.

 

7 hours ago, johnksss said:

Well I sure as hell feel all of 55 right now! 😂

 

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

And this is for you my old friend❤️ Happy Birthday bro Fox.

 

I'm the middleman. Older than you but younger than bro Fox🙂 Best of both worlds?😆

 

1 hour ago, Raiderman said:

Same age brother @johnksss

 

Happy birthday @Mr. Fox! I take it most of us have grown children by now....

 

I guess that makes me the senior "youngin" in the group at a "spry" 52? 🤣

 

 

[electrosoft]

12 hours ago, tps3443 said:

MASSIVE difference in GPU temps since adding another D5! My 3090KP HC with the 1KW bios is 29c at 460+ watts during gameplay lol. Most importantly is how effective my chiller actually works now. I feel like it has been converted from 1/2HP to 3/4HP. It is actually turning off during gameplay because it reaches the set desired temp point so quickly. Normally it would just run forever during games. This was the first thing I noticed right away. 
 

I’ve got a D5 on the inlet and D5 on the outlet of my chiller, and a D5 underneath my components for additional head pressure. The difference on a chiller when adding (3) D5’s is very substantial! (2) D5’s and chiller is not enough. I do not have any radiators or fans in my system. Chiller and pumps only. 
 

CPU temps look to be identical during something like R23 etc. But during gameplay everything is lower. Because my chiller can maintain a far cooler water temp. 
 

This is KDC at 460+ watts and 29C. it’s crazy my chiller is literally capable of so much more under sustained heavy loads. If I loaded the normal 520KP bios on here, the GPU would run even cooler. 

 

 

What was your flow rate before and after?

 

Whew, imagine a 4090 in that loop. 🙂

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

11 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Happy birthday @Mr. Fox! I take it most of us have grown children by now....

 

I guess that makes me the senior "youngin" in the group at a "spry" 52? 🤣

Thank you, brother. You're the young whipper-snapper. 😄

 

[Raiderman]

Yesterday was a crap day for me. One of my best friends and coworkers last day at work was yesterday, and we had to put our yellow lab down after 13 years 😥 We are a little heartbroken today.