1610ftw

Nvidia seems to have new criteria for their top laptop GPUs - they apparently aspire to be roughly half as fast as their desktop counterparts these days 😄 It also looks like maybe they saw the utter ridiculousness of calling a card with a sub 20K TimeSpy "4090" so they went for the slightly less stupid 4080Ti label. 3 cards at the top with the top card possibly having another fantasy name now is quite funny. As I am not interested in GPU performance that much it is fine with me but I would be very offended if I was buying one of those laptops with cards that are 4080Ti or 4090 in name only. Oh well in the future it will probably be best to just get a big CPU that is still reasonably similar to its desktoip counterpart and then add an external GPU for more serious gaming - for the internal displays at QHD these cards should be good enough most of the time.

In fact this generation it is 2 x 17.3" chassis from MSI and Dell and 3 x 16" chassis from Dell, HP and Lenovo - nothing from Clevo or Asus. At the same time there are easily more than hundred motherboards that allow for 128GB on the 1700 socket alone.

I do not think that the provision of RAM slots would have to drive prices that high but the practice to only offer 4 RAM slots in the absolute top models drives prices up a lot even without considering the cost of the RAM itself. Not to mention that indeed Dell CAMM prices are highway robbery if you happen to need 128GB. A good example is the MSI GT77: It is the only 128GB capable laptop of this generation that has a 17" screen and regular memory. But it also has a 4k screen which adds cost and it also cannot be bought with anything less than a 3070 Ti which also adds cost. A version with a QHD screen and a 3060 could probably cost about 600 to 900 less but we will never know as MSI does not offer it and if they did they surely would not offer it with the 12900HX CPU. I think we may have more choices again with the next generation as this time the HX Intel chips will be available earlier and I would assume that more manufacturers will jump on the 18" bandwagon. Let's hope that some manufacturers will test the waters and offer laptops that are a bit bigger than they would have to be - I have a bit of hope for that but not much.

I think that laptops just aren't up to it any more as power consumption has gone waaaay up over the last years. Even if you'd take a volume that is on the level of the big old Alienware 18" chassis it would be much better but not enough. We could probably come up with a solution to cool a 300W CPU with such a chassis but it would be very difficult to cool a monster Geforce 4090 GPU with it, let alone a 13900K AND the 4090! That being said having a total power envelope of 600 watt would be possible with a bigger unified vapor chamber and some simple liquid cooling as developed by Tongfang / Uniwill. Will we ever see it? Probably not except maybe as an aftermarket solution. Laptop always was meant for portable but people have apparently gotten much weaker so they have to shrink all the time. Personally I find it sickening but very few seem to complain. I prefer to be able to take my office with me so I will stay with a laptop even though it means performance will be less. I do not game so that is a big bonus as I do not need a top GPU in my laptops. That is a great hwbot score you got there - much better than the ca. 36K at 100°C that we might get from the next generation of BGA books 😄

The idea would not be to run a laptop at 100 degrees and max but to have some headroom to run it at 80 or below and still have good performance. Basic desktops is too harsh but certainly it is very easy to surpass the best laptop with a moderately ambitious desktop. Room temp was 22 to 24 degrees according to my thermometer but it looks like P-cores always reported lower minimum temperature than E-cores that seem to have been pretty close to room temp: I will leave it at that as every desktop 12900K setup is better than that anyway and the gap will most cetainly get wider with the 13900K compared to the 13900HX. 25% to 50% less performance seems about right when comparing single CPU and GPU to the same model in a desktop, especially with the upcoming generation. Indeed very few laptops these days that allow for 128GB RAM which drives prices up even more.

My bad, just now saw the two additional slots. But how would you fix the SSDs that go over the other two? In any case I would think that 2 slots would be enough for most people but I can only see "standard" solutions with one m2 slot - are you aware of a less costly solution that would hold two drives?

3 on top and 2 in the MXM slot is a given but where can you put m2 SSD number 6 and 7 if not in the seond MXM slot that I think should hold a proper GPU?

Finally a laptop that can hold 5 M2 and 2 2.5" SSDs - crazy 😄

Thanks, that is very interesting. Do you have those all core load numbers for the 12900K? It does indeed seem too high compared to that but maybe those people with the 12900HX who post these big numbers that I extrapolated from have ripped off the bottom of their laptops and attached a water cooler or something similarly extreme and I would count on them to do it again with the 13900HX 😄 What helps a lot with these scores is that only short bursts are needed. I got up to 26.5 CB R23 and change with the GT77 with the 12800HX but that was only for a single run and with a system that was about 22°C when starting the benchmark as the limiting factor was always - surprise, surprise - thermal throttling. After a 10 minute run that number had gone down to a bit more than 21K and starting a single run and when working at normal temps and more stable timings the results were only about 23,5K to 24.5K due to higher starting temperature and normal instead of crazy loud fan settings and BD Prochot was also backed down to 95°C. But if I post this at HWbot people would only see this one time score in the overview and not know what is behind it of course when only looking at the score in a list, same as in geekbench that is not as transparent as this: And that was stock without additional cooling and never opened as I only had it for testing. I would be surprised if it could not hit beyond 27 and with good binning up to 28K with added cooling, some liquid metal and starting the benchmark at something like 10 or 15 degree room temperature in some garden shed next to a leaf blower or something similarly wacky 😄

That is unlikely to be indicative of the true capability. Some 12900HX scores are going up to 18K so we can expect at least a third more than that which would mean this one can go up to about 24000 at least. Efficiency is of course what will make this so interesting for the laptop world - 80W might be enough to achieve what was the max performance of the last generation of processors. Of course I can - it is not like we did not have power hungry 10900K and 11900K in our laptops before 😄 So why not have that in an 18" DTR with a unified vapor chamber? That should allow at least a sustained 200W if not more and it will go a long way with the 13900K and give us at least 35K in CB R23. For me, the nice thing about desktop chips is that we can do our own binning or select better binned chips, not practical with BGA laptops.

Does anybody still have this? https://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-HP-Pavilion-HDX-9320EG-Notebook.9461.0.html Sound is stunning on this one as is display size, overall a huge multimedia laptop with socketed CPU and GPU. Not put together that well when it comes to servicing or upgrading but that 16:10 20" screen is something even though I only have the 1680 x 1050 version. Mine hasn't seens much use recently and to remedy that I wanted to set it up in a room where I mostly need to access virtual machines with it so it will see very little load by itself which is preferable with only a dual core processor. Unfortunately it still gets quite loud as there does not seem to be any way to control its fans in stock and it is needlessly cooling down the CPU to mid 30s at the expensive of noise levels. If anybody has tested and confirmed as working any third party software to tone down the fans that would be great. I cannot power it up at the moment but I tried unsuccessfully to control its fans with at least three different programs but no joy. The operating system is W10 by the way, has been updated by the previous owner and it does seem to work pretty well for my needs - that is unless W10 killed some kind of fan control feature 😄

OK, time to start a thread about the upcoming fastest mobile gaming CPUs - in case we do not get anything socketed that is. Compared to GPU manufacturers at last Intel is still trying if @OneRaichu is correct: i9-13900HX: 8P+16E up to 5.4GHz i7-13700HX: 8P+8E up to 5.0GHz i7-13650HX: 6P+8E up to 4.9GHz i5-13500HX: 6P+8E up to 4.7GHz i5-13450HX: 6P+4E up to 4.6GHz First geekbench from the 13900HX in a Razer Blade 18: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/18540793

If you game only a few times per year and want to go with the Lenovo I would check if there are any TB specific limits with your game(s). If it doesn't then possibly better to skip that whole special eGPU stuff as you would have to take out a second SSD or the network card to accommodate the eGPU. When I was looking into it my son wanted more GPU performance for his laptop and he has hundreds of games so surely he would have encountered some with big issues which is why we went for a PCIe eGPU solution.

Pretty sure that Dell is limiting combined load too much to achieve truly impressive results in gaming benchmarks. With no or a small GPU I can see it achieving better CPU performance with the top of the line heatsink but that is about it. So chasing top performance for the internal 3080 Ti will probably be futile but maybe you will surprise us 🙂

That's because you are looking at the overall score, not the GPU score 🙂 On the left you can sort by highest overall, GPU and CPU score, that will show you the highest GPU score.

If you are curious it is not a lot of money you have to invest: https://tinyurl.com/JHH-Dock You can get a cable that inserts instead of an NVME SSD or another one that takes the place of a network card - might even be the best solution for people who only have 2 NVME slots which is the (pathetic) norm today. Looking at your numbers I would probably be most tempted if you have the same issues with some games severely underperforming that about everybody seems to have with TB connections. If that isn't an issue you may not be that excited to "only" go from ca. 16.4K to somewhere between 18 and 19K GPU score. On the other hand with Nvidia staying its anemic course even for next generation GPUs it may be hard to surpass that as 175W TGP and inferior chips seem destined to make sure that the gap between 4090 desktop and mobile is soon rivaling the Grand Canyon.

The bottleneck will probably be there in a few games that rely heavily on CPU but overall a 3090 will still give a big increase over the 11K or so score that apparently is what is possible with an internal 3080 Ti. And just to point this out as your graphics score number is a bit too high for the 3080 Ti / 12950HX combo: Even the top 5 scores are around 14.5K, still very good but not 15K:

On reddit somebody added a 4090 that way and achieved over 30000 in TimeSpy - seems to make a lot of sense to me if it makes a laptop way faster than desktops with every other card that exists: I recently added an RTX 3080 eGPU to a Clevo P870TM from 2017 and got about 16200 to 16500 in TimeSpy - faster than the fastest 3080 Ti in laptops on the 3D Mark site and achieved without much of an effort.

Totally fine for the chip itself but 95°C may put stress on surrounding components in a laptop, more so than in a desktop. Companies can't win with us when it comes to naming 😄 7950X desktop turns into the 7945HX in its laptop incarnation it seems - a bit weird I agree but on the other hand it is sufficiently different from the desktop chip to not be mistaken for it. Something that cannot be said for certain other Green Goblins companies.

Thanks, this will be a cool project for me and my son to spend some quality time tinkering with something more rewarding than a chintzy BGA book 😄 Brother @Mr. Foxhas gone above and beyond with this and I cannot recommend him highly enough. Will report back when it has all arrived which should hopefully be around the end of the month.

AMD has already mentioned the 7945HX when introducing the new naming convention: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/88355/amd-ryzen-cpu-naming-scheme-for-2023-makes-things-clearer-confusing/index.html Doubling the cores from one generation to the next and also offering substantial single core gains makes this AMD generation interesting again.

Welcome to TGP hell that has been a sad reality for high end / DTR laptop users for several years now. Nvidia produces the best cards but they have zero love for people who want something special and so they neuter their cards with overzealous TGP limits instead of just throttling at temps that Nvidia deems too high.

Thank YOU, Brother Fox, we will have a lot of fun with all of that 🙂

You got pm 🙂

Oh no, forrgot about that, let me correct my mistake: 4090 MEGA (AD104): up to 125W 4080 ULTRA (AD105): up to 100W 4070 GIGA (AD106): up to 75W That should do it as long as we add enough RGB 😁