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1610ftw

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Everything posted by 1610ftw

  1. 1610ftw
    I see that they are following that line of thought but I am not sure that people who actually care about upgradability and modularity really want something that small and cramped. Hope I am mistaken as I would hat to see them fail. With one of the reasons that we do not have big DTRs being that they are expensive to develop vs the sales numbers such an upgradable chassis would be a big benefit as a proper chassis could house different boards and screens and external connectors for many generations and they would only have to develop it once.
  2. 1610ftw
    I mean that they basically try to build the windows equivalent to a 13" Macbook that is serviceable. While I support the idea of modularity and upgradability I cannot really get excited about a company that wants as much money for a new mainboard that elsewhere gets me a decent Lenovo gaming laptop with a 15 or 16" screen. The problem I see is that for this kind of laptop the price for a new mainboard is too high and just does not make sense as for the money of the upgrade one could easily get a new mainboard with similar or better performance. If that would be possible with let's say a chassis like the one of my MSI GT75 that I like a lot it would be fantastic - I would immediately replace the mainboard and drop one in with a 12800HX CPU and the ability to hold 4 x 32GB memory instead of 4 x 16GB. So I think that the idea is very good but the laptops have to be higher performance and more powerful for it to really make sense and I would like to see them team up with a big manufacturer to improve upgradeability, serviceability AND performance. And just in case it comes over differently - I like what they are doing in principle and if those kind of designs help them grow they did everything right, it is just not something I can get excited about.
  3. 1610ftw
    It is too bad that they have decided that their best chance to survive is a baseline of tiny and boring nothingness...
  4. 1610ftw
    Did they give any reason for doing that? Maybe they miscalculated the price?
  5. 1610ftw
    Reviewed already courtesy of notebookcheck.com https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-Titan-GT77-12UHS-Laptop-Review-Alder-Lake-HX-poster-child-with-unhindered-desktop-class-performance.640632.0.html The 4K display of the CreatorPro X17 on the right, looks good to me:
  6. 1610ftw
    Interesting information, might be good to post this in the general section as it also is of interest regarding other manufacturers? Without going into the politics of this it is good for people to make an informed decision.
  7. 1610ftw

    MSI GT77

    1610ftw replied to VEGGIM's topic in MSI

    I know what you mean about no upgrades for laptops even though in theory it should be possible. I have the X170KM-G and it is the end of the road so far for that one with regard to both the maximum CPU and GPU it can take. Still keeps repair prices down but upgradability is only a thing if you do not get the biggest and baddest parts right out of the gate. Nice to hear you are happy with the GT77. How are noise levels in everyday use - do the fans run at a stable level or are they fluctuating a lot? The noise spikes in a GE76 I tested were rather annoying with the fans getting pretty load from time to time just because I was opening another program for example. From what I heard the Area 51 could be pretty quiet so it would be interesting how you feel about noise levels when comparing these two.
  8. 1610ftw
    Indeed not a single review so far. Would be cool if you could either open a thread in the MSI section or post in the GT77 thread. When will you get it?
  9. 1610ftw
    That was a bit of a strange review and each time I see people discuss the power brick being too large and chunky I want to puke - not that difficult to get a smaller version for travelling. With a battery life of at least 4 hours and up to 6 I doubt that a battery would even be necessary in the boardroom meetings like the one he pretends to be crashing with the "monstrous" power brick. I also never had an issue to connect a Thunderbolt dock to any of my MSI laptops (Akitio, Dell (2x) and HP) in order to get a third monitor output but hey I must be some kind of wizard.... As for the membrane keyboard my contact at MSI confirmed that to me, probably the keyboard you already know from the GE76 save for the numpad section. Software could indeed use some improvement but I am not quite sure to which lengths MSI would go to differentiate the X17 from the GT77 - they do not even seem to have a proper workstation logo any more but then the Dragon does not look too bad in all black and white: https://www.msi.com/Content-Creation/CreatorPro-X17-A12UX/Gallery#lg=1&slide=4 In any case this is probably better discussed over in the MSI section.
  10. 1610ftw
    MSI Germany for sure knew nothing about it either but here is a review that is quite interesting: https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-WT75-8SM-Xeon-E-2176G-Quadro-P5200-Workstation-Review.416746.0.html With todays knowledge I would always go for a unified heatsink as that allows all of the cooling capacity to help out with CPU or GPU only workloads and if they had done away with one of the 2.5" drives and turned the other SSD array by 90 degrees they would have been able to afford more space to the GPU but for the time that was a solid design As @win32asmguy says it even had a working GPU switch and therefore some usable battery life without negatively impacting maximum performance so a real win-win.
  11. 1610ftw
    Very true - the WT75 was a socketed monster and MSI could have improved upon it quite easily with the next generation but instead they released their first really good design in years as a workstation only and one might as well have thought it never existed as so few were sold. In Europe it wasn't even on offer in most countries and almost nobody knew about it. And agree 110% on screen size - I cannot understand people who are actually happy with 15" - it is so tiny while 17" is at least acceptable. The only laptop where I ever though this is a nice screen size was the 20" 16:10 HDX Dragon - that size felt really good and it would fit in a Alienware 18 sized chassis - not that I expect to ever see something like that...
  12. 1610ftw
    My thoughts exactly - it is as if they have already given up on any semblance of ambition once they decided to go fully soldered. It may be fun to get one of those with a beefier aftermarket cooling solution and at least 450W of sustained power from the power supply(s) and then we'll see if it isn't possible to sustain 160 or 180W on the CPU and 200+W on the shunt modded GPU 😄
  13. 1610ftw
    The GT76 allowed for 200W to the GPU and 200W to the CPU with 400W combined for both, reduced now to 250W because according to MSI more isn't needed - must be one of the biggest regressions ever to lose that much capability in one generation! As for the soldered GPU and CPU it seems to be a trademark of MSI for maybe 10 years now that they always offer one degree of modularity less than is possible. Back when it was possible to have both CPU and GPU socketed they only ever had one of each socketed within their Titan series and now where they could at least have kept the socketed CPU to very good effect (13900K coming up) they chose to solder both to chase some exaggerated thinness and weight goals that nobody asked for in the first place in a top of the line model. It is called Titan after all, not Elf.
  14. 1610ftw
    What is even more troubling is that this is the only system in this generation that even allows for this much sustained power to the CPU while also allowing for more than the now typical 2 + 2 memory and storage slots. So this is already as good as it gets and I am really tired of this laptop fat-shaming - the GT77 isn't heavy, it barely weighs 7lbs! I am sure many here know that 7lbs was a relatively low weight for a 17" laptop not too long ago and look where we are now! My best guess is that 3mm added height and 350g added weight would have been enough for a higher performance unified vapor chamber and SSD cooling and 5mm and 550g should have been enough to also add a socketed CPU and still stay at or below 8.5 lbs. Adding weight in the right places and for the right reasons gives the owner more performance and a little bit of exercise which cannot hurt for most of us. And for people who want weak featherweight laptops there is still the vast majority of laptops on the market that offer just that: Mediocre at best performance in a slim and (supposedly) pretty package.
  15. 1610ftw
    tales of Titans: Here is an interesting video with some benchmarks for the MSI GT77 that only manages to allow for an average of 140W delivered to its CPU in a CPU only benchmark even though its heatsink should allow for up to 250W cooling capability for both CPU and GPU: Overall it looks like the GT77 does bring little to no improvement to the table over the smaller and cheaper GE77 when it comes to GPU and CPU so not worth the added money if a performance increase is the goal. That used to be different with previous Titan models but not any more it seems and it should lead to MSI reconsidering their cooling concept that is let's say not delivering as hoped for despite their effort with numerous heat pipes and 4 fans. A notebookcheck review has also uncovered that where previously Titan models had very good SSD cooling this one has no cooling at all which leads to unsatisfactory reads and I am sure also writes: https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-Titan-GT77-12UHS-Laptop-Review-Alder-Lake-HX-poster-child-with-unhindered-desktop-class-performance.640632.0.html This is some kind of advance sample by Intel but from what I have seen the release version also has no heatsinks which is probably due to the misguided insistence on making this one extra slim. Of course we all know that this is what is most important for a flagship laptop...
  16. 1610ftw
    Haha, all first place scores sounds good - instant legend 😄 I have a number of half-breeds and it is quite infuriating how good they can be if it wasn't for the crappy soldered CPU. I currently use the 7760 most of the time and it is indeed well built and has really usable fan curves even without any add-on trickery - it was a nice surprise. I still hate that rubbery palm rest and that the bottom has to be held in by screws whereas on almost all other laptops I can just snap it in but other than that it is a pretty refined user experience that also works well with external thunderbolt docks and 10G network adapters. With some added TLC it also has nice cooling capability for the SSD slots by effectively turning the bottom cover into a big SSD heatsink.
  17. 1610ftw
    There are no workstations that he could point to, the first one released is from Dell. This is why I pointed to another Dell unit and an MSI with the most similar hardware and size. Ultimately it will be up to Dell to let him know about what performance can be expected of the 7770 and I doubt they will tell him that he should be happy with what he has got, it definitely does not qualify as good performance.
  18. 1610ftw
    The new 16" 16:10 screen are almost exactly the same height as current 16:9 17.3" screens but they have 1600 instead of 1440 vertical pixels to go with the horizontal resolution of 2560. As I already find QHD too small on a 17.3" screen I do not really see that much of a benefit with a 2560 x 1600 resolution on these 16" screens when not scaling everything up. 2560 horizontal pixels is big for me as it makes using two windows side by side possible whereas 1920 x 1080 does not really cut it when I want to do that.
  19. 1610ftw
    You may want to open up a case with Dell and ask why the low CPU and GPU numbers. Here is a review of an Alienware X17 with the same GPU and lesser CPU achieving higher results: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Alienware-x17-R2-laptop-review-Peak-175-W-GeForce-RTX-3080-Ti-performance.617938.0.html#toc-3 More than 50% higher CR23 with this one with the equivalent 12900HX: https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-Raider-GE77-HX-12UHS-in-review-4K-gaming-notebook-with-top-performance.634343.0.html I think that both laptops weigh less than the 7770 so it is not like it is slim and light compared to them. Can't hurt to do that while you are waiting - let them do the work for now.
  20. 1610ftw
    HP workstations are usually very easy to open and it can also be very easy to swap drives and RAM for them and starting with Zbook 17 G6 they introduced a vapor chamber for at least the top models. I like their design and I also prefer their non-rubbery palm rest so it is too bad that they have a bunch of - for me unsurmountable - drawbacks: They used to have a very annoying behaviour with regard to fans ramping up out of nowhere and I did not manage to find a good program that really took care of that issue - I am told this is still the case if any kind of significant power draw is desired either single or multi core. My last experience with that was with Zbook 17 G5 and G6 and after that I stopped paying attention. Also HP used to charge a lot for top tier CPUs while for Dell it is often a no-brainer to get the best CPU as their surcharge is very reasonable. As has been mentioned deals seem to be more frequent for Dell, too and their CPU and GPU performance USED to be better. Another recent and huge fail is indeed that HP has turned its back on 17.3" which is something that automatically disqualifies them for me - I want my laptop screens to grow, not to shrink 🙂
  21. 1610ftw
    I agree that it is most likely some kind of software bug causing some of the trouble but it would also be an issue with how the new heatsink design has to be mounted and making contact as temperatures get very high with without the CPU or GPU using all that much power. A bad paste job is unlikely imo as the sole reason as several systems seem to have very similar issues. The power supply of the 7770 tells us that it is not meant for absolute peak performance but as it is now Dell would have to be ashamed of the results for its top tier workstation so I expect for them to find ways to improve upon the performance that @Aaron44126 and others are seeing.
  22. 1610ftw
    Nah, just wait for the X170 successor that you can put your 13900K into - we need it so it has to materialize 😄
  23. 1610ftw
    With space for at least 4 SSDs and 128GB memory it used to be Clevo, HP, Dell and MSI and I think those only came with a 17" screen. Add top tier GPU and you were down to Clevo, MSI and Dell and now Clevo have sold their soul to Intel for this generation, hopefully to return for the next top tier GPU (and CPU) generation.
  24. 1610ftw
    Understood, but you still want to figure out if this is it with regard to performance or not. From what I can gather you are getting graphics performance that you could also get with the RTX A4500 card (more below) and that isn't right. As Dell charges almost no surcharge for the 12950 it does not make sense to get something smaller but it still is a rather low score. Hehe, we seem to have the same shopping list except for the GPU 🙂 The keyboard layout of the GT77 is an insult, even more so for its workstation version - very nice to type but no idea who was the imbecile who thought it was a good idea to go with that key size and key arrangement for the numpad and it other keys. I would think that support is also better with Dell so for your use case the 7770 would be preferable. I cannot help with the 7770 part of things but I can comment on the performance expectation of the hardware. The GE76 that I currently have here with a 3070 Ti and the 12700H can do ca. 12000 Time Spy and over 17000 CR23 out of the box. With some tweaking (MSI Afterburner and Throttlestop no repasting or bios tweaks) I can get up to about 12900 Time Spy and 18000 CR23 for single runs, ca. 15800 sustained. That was with Prochot set to 95 so with Prochot set to 100 it would probably be good for a few hundred more. As you can see those are higher scores but with an inferior CPU and GPU and the CPU cooling capability of the GE76 is not that great which seems to be the norm for most gaming machines as during gaming CPU power will be reduced anyway. With the GT77 with your CPU and GPU hardware equivalent you are looking at ca. 13500 Time Spy and higher from what I can see and 24K CR23 single run and around 20 to 21K CR23 for repeated runs. For that one there also is not that much data so far except for a number of Time Spy leaderboard rankings where the best scores are between 14.5 and 15K but who knows how these are achieved. As for your unit it would be good to check your paste application as the cooling solution does not look so anemic that it should not stay cooler with only 75W sustained CPU usage but no reasons to do that before you machine is swapped.
  25. 1610ftw
    Biggest current generation COMBINED power draw for CPU and GPU is 250W - kind of puts things in perspective 😄
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