MyPC8MyBrain

bit on the fence there, i didn't want to buy a compromise at $4500, for around 2k i don't have an issue with some compromising, i was hoping the 7770 larger chassis will have bit more thermal headroom than the 7670 has, i think i even stated somewhere here that if i can get the 7770 to 13k score it will be good enough for me to keep, yes i am not that far off from that score but i am well aware that I am off by at least 1400 point from the same hardware average performance and that is a hard pill to swallow coming from Dell top of the line workstation,

i feel the same way, a logic that's the other way around just doesn't sit we'll with me, a workstation that doesn't hit the gaming platform performance threshold is just wrong imho. mostly agreed, i come from the days when 8MB stick RAM was a big deal or a 64MB (< not a typo!) drive was huge, for me to make such distinction is just odd, how desperately these companies try to make a distinction by crippling features, i and most here happen to know there isn't a difference despite marketing efforts to create such differences, i find it very hard to gel with these greedy manipulations, how did you figure that out in advance? i never expected a workstation class to deliver lower than a generic gaming platform performance, i can pull my Dell order list you will see all the way back to 03 i been buying laptops for my kids and family, there easy 40-50 units i purchased over the years, there was never a crippling features in the precision line so another model can shine brighter, granted i mostly worked professionally with their PowerEdge line in extremally large capacity, but laptops always been my preferred platform for personal computing, its not my first rodeo even with me being an old geezer.

sure there is there's HP, Lenovo and Asus, wont touch with a stick but still MSI is also a player, there is no such thing as gaming based laptop, what does that actually mean? it can do something the 7770 cant do or just do it and every other task better? that's all marketing nonsense. I didn't do business with the others i gave Dell $4500 of my hard earned money and paid for 6 year damage insurance that's why, Dell didn't admit their faults but instead kept wasting my time the past 6 months with replacements pretending there's a fault in the device when in reality they know very well what they did, and just using their army of support people to fend what they know coming. you all keep defending the undefendable, they know what they did long before we got these machines in hand, to try and draw imaginary line between two machine then impose deliberate crippling features they try to hide, i stand on two legs with that statement, how many legs is Dell standing on saying that they cant deliver proper functioning dGpu to its spec when they do it with no issues on the Alienware, it gets the 330w proper power supply that is fully able to drive dGpu, so tell me pls which leg is Dell standing on the third one? and who here doesn't love their patronizing attitude... "work with our customer care team to request and work on getting a refund as this system does not meet the specifications required that you expected." it actually does meet my requirement if Dell delivered instead of manipulating and why i choose the spec in the first place, zero accountability.

@justdevelop see above the 12950HX gets UHD integrated, some of the lower thin chassis cpu combo somehow end up with the newer Iris integrated, not sure what the conditions are to get the Iris integrated, i tried asking my system spec'd with the Iris integrated, Dell refused! one of the members on here was looking to replace the heat pipe and plates that come with the 7770 and high end dGpu to see if he could lower his temps in his system without dGpu, later on i removed my dGpu and tested the chassis without it (see here), the cpu with or without dGpu performs well and to spec! (it will thermal throttle very quickly due to lack of thermal headroom in the chassis and anemic embedded thermal solution) as for external screen compatibility without dGpu i have no hands on experience to share,

its not that puny, for comparison i scored 8184 with XPS 17 with 3060 and 11980HK, which is last gen 8 core cpu https://www.3dmark.com/spy/28621022 if i run the same test now with latest CPU im pretty sure i can get very close to what we see with our 7770 and 3080Ti, mind you that system never throttle down or overheated no matter how hard i run it (with LM TIM), here's what XPS 17 with 12700 and 3060 roughly scores atm (bit low then i expected) note graphics score is not far off the 3080Ti we see atm (compared with my best, most here have a hard time achieving to begin with, and are more in the 3060 score range), our CPU with 3080Ti is not even able to achieve its average of 13800 score for same hardware spec, as hard as i tried it wont get near 13k, not to mention get close to the highest score at 14800,

@Aaron44126 here's funny true story for you, as i was going through trying to get some attention to the fan and heat issue, a Pro Support agent was trying to help resolve the problem, he did his research while i was waiting, taken him quite some time he went through few options i responded with i already tried, eventually he came up with "you should use Dell Fan Management Tool" to which i responded with i am actually in touch the the Author of the software.... and he himself is in the same predicament i am in as he own a 7770 as well, 100% from my timeline view this happened 3 days after i showed the agent this specific thread and your fan support thread and explained that you are in the same boat as I am and we are all trying to figure out a way to resolve this, but if a capable author cannot help himself how are we suppose to navigate this? i also explained how bad the system heats up out the box and load line calibration we apply ourselves, in my view none of these should have left the factory this way but yet it did, yes this thread been a great help in getting attention to these issues.

completely understood, it was more a friendly needle at @Dell-Mano_G i don't disagree with most of what you stated above with the exception of the above, can you tell me that 17' XPS with 3060 will give you less performance than the 7770 is currently dishing out? the only difference will be 2 x M.2 slots, beyond that the value is just not there for a workstation class, extra 2 x M.2 slots can be circumvented and not worth the extra expenses just to get a worst performing machine, i really feel bad for because you could have bought a new car with how you spec'd your system, money doesn't grow on trees clearly these agents have little respect for our hard earned money with pile of lies and army of customer service ready to refute and wear out our patience,

their best response is posted few posts back, and their final official answer to this issue, despite the agents trying to make it sound like i was asking for something that's not supported by Dell, engineering claim to look into this issue and confirmed it is limited due to power supply limit (which they also imposed),

i believe boost is also working in the 7770 with 3080Ti just not as advertised, i think the limit is 115w and we get extra 5w boost for a total of 120w, i feel that @Dell-Mano_G silence on this entire dGpu and overheat fiasco speaks louder than words! for those reading this later on... if you're researching for a robust capable workstation look elsewhere!

that is starlight up lies from both their engineering and sales department, engineering responded that due to power limitation they dGpu cannot work at full capacity to its already capped 150w, who's fault is that? why didn't they give it the right power supply to use its 150w dGpu limit? and why they continue to advertise this false information? either way after informing set engineer that i purchased a 330w power supply followed by removing PL4 limit to allow dGpu to have its full power to run freely that didn't do anything to regain dGpu advertised capacity, not even limiting the cpu to max 30w made a difference to allow dGpu to run at full capacity, the system run with max 160w utilization including dGpu at 115w leaving dGpu extra 80w to himself and still no cigar! bottom line they had no leg to stand on facing unrefutable facts so they default to further wasting my time, even though i stated it is not just effecting me but an entire community who purchased these, these agents count on us being absolute ignorant for buying Pro support package, not realizing its the only way to buy physical damage insurance, they assume we are all technical idiots and should accept these lame made up excuses or give up at some point facing an army of support people offering exchange as an easy way to resolve their ticket instead of actually resolving technical issues they caused.

here is the last response I received from Dell's army of incompetent agents after requesting for investigation for the limit on the dGpu as well as requesting a solution for the overheat in the form of rudimentary fan switch, after being forwarded from one agent to another over and over below is their final copout, here is a small find i didn't want to report before i heard back from Dell, someone here is manipulating not telling the truth and its not one of us. @Dell-Mano_G these are your people? every Pro Support agent parlayed responsibility until they for the 1000'th time offer me to return it instead of resolving the issue at hand, who's returning me my time and efforts spent on this nonsense? how dare your people try to sale a bug car under false pretense that its a race car? basic economics dictates you can charge on what you can deliver not what you pretend to deliver, you cant fully utilize a $2200 sku you don't get to charge $2200 without delivering as advertised.

anyone else seeing this odd behavior from Task Manager? this happens with both OEM image the system arrived with and after a fresh install, there's an unwelcome delay when task manager starts with a strange black background seen in the video below, (it is almost mission impossible to search and find useful info on google now days, every keyword pulls sup mountain of unrelated rubbish articles) for the time being brought back good old friend i missed, simple, clean, with no nonsense fluff that occupies half the screen's real-estate,

i tried, it didn't work!

100% that still remains an issue for me and every 7X70 owner too, our joined efforts here help mitigate the heat problem, but far from being able to solve the problem, i requested from Dell to provide some form of manual fan control to further help with heat issue, I doubt we will see such solution anytime soon, even a simple one like i requested just a toggle that spins fans at 100% until unchecked, no need for fancy fan curve editing etc., the way i manage is by running cool power plan in bios and power saver in windows (with S3 re-enabled) you will see few posts back a PowerShell script i posted that helps switching between "operation modes", for none demanding tasks like browsing internet reading emails or watching 100 YouTube videos simultaneously above cool/power saver combo provides more than enough power while keeping the system very cool, for performance oriented tasks (for me its executing heavy code workload on dGpu) i use the script to switch modes, if power saver is on it will switch to performance in bios and ultra performance in windows, in 3 seconds I am ready to push heavy workload with all the power available, next time the script runs if performance mode is on it will switch back to power saver mode,

we are all experiencing the same issue, each with his specific dGpu and its TGP, my 3080Ti with TGP of 150w will not use more than 120w (about 20-25% cap from declared TGP),

crisis averted, found the culprit! i applied the wrong NVidia driver tweak, word of advice if you use NVCleanstall or manual tweaks avoid "Disable NVIDIA HD Audio device sleep timer" tweak, my total system power now makes sense, with Hybrid on total system power is 11w with Hybrid off total system power is 17w,

when hybrid is on i also have most of dGpu values at 0 until an app is using it, very interesting, how is the screen stays off? if i close the lid the screen shuts off and makes some application not run properly when i remote in, it also reverts to full 4k with no scaling and the native screen preference module is none responsive if the lid is closed (maybe its just the software used to remote in, my go to is Dameware, you prob using RDP?),

no Optimus for me here (right above 150 W line, Advanced Optimus = No) hmm... i did just that! hybrid mode on with dGpu disabled in device manager i am seeing 40-45w total system power draw at idle, hybrid mode on with dGpu ReEnabled in device manager i am seeing 60-65w total system power draw at idle, hybrid mode off i am seeing 35-37w total system power draw at idle, what do you see in HWiNFo64 "total system power" at idle with your current settings?

bit confused, which condition did i miss? i described every possible condition and values associated,

i've read that and was unable to replicate here, hybrid mode on with dGpu Enabled in device manager i am seeing 60-65w total system power at idle, hybrid mode on with dGpu disabled in device manager i am seeing 40-45w total system power at idle, hybrid mode off i am seeing 35-37w total system power at idle, (with all 4 M.2 slots occupied, cool in bios and power saver in windows, 4K, 2xSoDimm)

this is quite odd, ive learned that having iGpu active as in "Hybrid Mode" Enabled is drawing 60w overall at idle, this raises system temps idle at about 6c-7c, switching "Hybrid Mode" off as in working directly with dGpu 100% actually lowers systems overall wattage to 35w draw at idle with 6c-7c lower system temps, isn't that suppose to be the other way around and the whole point behind having iGpu with dGpu?

i am also showing dynamic boost in system info (i am with with latest NVidia game ready drivers, that was also listed with Dells signed driver before i changed) BTW i have to eat some of my words back, still with Dell's default paste 500 point higher than my best dGpu score with LM TIM https://www.3dmark.com/spy/33797525 in MSI Afterburner i did not overvolt dGpu memory clock, only core clock to +275MHz, new cpu FIVR undervolt also changed a bit CPU Core -122.1 (effective -125mV) with IccMax 185.00 CPU P Cache -122.1 (effective -125mV) with IccMax 185.00 CPU E Cache -97.7 (effective -100mV) Cache Ratio 8/36 Min/Max Turbo Group all cores set to 4.7MHz only thing missing for me to be happy with the system is a way to peg fans manually to max speed, and regain the missing 30w TGP, which i have a growing suspicion Dell copied/carrying over default limits from the 7670 dgpu with 125w TGP to the 7770 with 150w TGP,

maybe some of you noticed in my videos a small batch file run before bench starts, it is a small script i wrote to help switching bios power plan and windows power plan, with one click it will change from bios "Cool" and windows "Power Saver" to bios "Ultra Performance" and in windows "Ultimate Performance", and vice versa when clicked again, to have this working you will need to first disable "Modern Standby" [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power] "PlatformAoAcOverride"=dword:00000000 "CsEnabled"=dword:00000000 [-HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\ModernSleep] [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\ModernSleep] restore and activate the classic power plan schema, install "Dell Command PowerShell Provider" finally paste the following script in *.bat and run mode con: cols=40 lines=4 @echo off powercfg.exe -getactivescheme | findstr /i "saver" >nul && (powercfg -s 4591f705-2228-47e6-acef-44df2d359f8b & powershell -Command "& {Import-Module DellBIOSProvider ; cd DellSmbios:\PreEnabled ; si .\ThermalManagement 'UltraPerformance'}" & echo -= Ultimate Active =-) if %errorlevel% equ 1 (powercfg -s 04afbba1-f17c-42c8-b76b-7dd8fd264253 & powershell -Command "& {Import-Module DellBIOSProvider ; cd DellSmbios:\PreEnabled ; si .\ThermalManagement 'Cool'}" & echo ** Power saver Active **) TIMEOUT 3 > nul (if you get an error confirm power plan guid in script match your windows version (powercfg /L)) want to toggle "Hybrid Graphics" ON/OFF here's a script for that, paste the following script in *.bat and run to toggle Hybrid Graphics, mode con: cols=40 lines=4 @echo off powershell -Command "& {Import-Module DellBIOSProvider ; cd DellSmbios:\PreEnabled ; gi .\HybridGraphics|Format-Wide CurrentValue}" | findstr /i "Disabled" >nul && (powershell -Command "& {Import-Module DellBIOSProvider ; cd DellSmbios:\PreEnabled ; si .\HybridGraphics 'Enabled'}" & echo -= HybridGraphics Enabled =-) if %errorlevel% equ 1 (powershell -Command "& {Import-Module DellBIOSProvider ; cd DellSmbios:\PreEnabled ; si .\HybridGraphics 'Disabled'}" & echo ** HybridGraphics Disabled **) TIMEOUT 3 > nul using PowerShell we can now change most of bios settings from windows, craft the right string and send it with PowerShell for instant mode changes, below are the variable (as of bios rev 1.7.1) that can be accessed with their command and path options,

i receive hopefully my final third replacement 7770 yesterday afternoon, to my surprise it wasn't spitting lava out of the box as experienced before, even on ultimate performance in bios and windows it was happy idling at mid 60c, decided to tune Dell's original image instead of wiping out and using my enterprise edition, got it to where im almost happy with it enough to get a baseline where performance are with this unit, getting 22500 in CB23 and a 11800 in 3DMARK Time Spy bench, this is with original Dell paste, i have not yet cracked this unit open, with max 25700 for CB23 and 12177 for 3DMARK with LM TIM, i can surmise that there's overall 10% increase potential with LM TIM for the 7770 unit, most LM TIM gains are from cpu side not much benefits for dgpu from what i can tell, it is prob better to keep dgpu with regular paste because that layer serves as heat shield protection when cpu is revving pumping temps up fast, i think it would be most efficient especially for the way both cpu and dgpu are setup inline on the heat pipe, i am starting to think that the stiffer thermal application Dell uses serves another propose intentionally the compound get stiffer after application to help with bonding due to mobility and lack of full physical support,

since @PHVM_BR brought the subject to our attention I've been researching Dynamic Boost 2.0 bit deeper, from what i learned and possible saw in person is a 5w Dynamic Boost 2.0 for our specific sku, Dynamic Boost 2.0 doesn't mean it will boost to max TGP rather attempt a prefixed predefined boost value, that boost may be as low as 5w in our sku case, i haven't found a source to verify what exactly Dynamic Boost 2.0 is for our specific sku, with heat dissipation being a big factor we all verified we can reach 120w under some circumstances, before i test locked my cpu to 30w i only saw short spikes from 115w to 120w during benching, when it was locked i could see 120w sustained (rails were listing 134.5w)