Mr. Fox

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

@Mr. Fox

 

I have a supercool Gen12 you can have it for free. It performs as good or better than a Supercool Gen13 I swapped from this Gen12 to the Gen13 and did not see a difference at all lol. The bottom of that coldplate is already lapped smooth so it free floats perfectly on the 13900K die. Your temps would be insane. I did it right, and it’s a real performer.

That is very kind and generous of you. Thank you. Let me know how much to send your way for the shipping cost. You can send it USPS Priority in a small flatrate box. I really appreciate it. Your 12th Gen kit cold plate was made totally different than the first version I purchased that did not work well. I was impressed with the results you saw with the revised cold plate. It worked fantastic, just as the 10th Gen version I had did.

I have started an RMA with EKWB and linked the thread you provided on OC.net and provided these two images with the RMA request to EKWB. Hopefully, they will do the right thing and give me my money back. I really like how it is made, but I do not like the poor results. They need to do something different. 

I left a comment on their YouTube video.

59 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Now, what I understand deliding would achieve, is it would improve heat transfer between the die and the IHS, further increasing the IHS temperature and compounding the problem. Great option for short-duration loads, benching and gaming, and for people with extreme cooling, but not necessarily in my case, if I understand correctly. Yes, it would potentially allow me to save the original IHS, though. 

I think delidding would help a whole lot more than you are thinking it will. As @tps3443has pointed out, sanding down the lip on the underside of the IHS so that the IHS contact surface mates with the die instead of the PCB is crucial. If the IHS drags on the PCB instead of swiveling freely on the die, the results will not be as good. If you do that and use liquid metal on both sides of the IHS even your sustained load temps will improve measurably. The benefit is not limited to short periods of stress. The stock solder only works well enough with near stock clock settings and an undervolt. Any kind of overclock with increased voltage causes unacceptable thermals with the stock solder.

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Yeah, that could be part of the problem. 

 

1. I'm using Arctic LFII 360 AIO with 6 Noctua IPPC 3000rpm fans. A sensor placed on the radiator consistently shows exactly 2C over ambient, so I guess not too bad. 

That said, the cold plate on that AIO is just long enough to cover the CPU, one would hope for some margin. 

2. I'm using the Thermaltake contact frame, very gently tightened about 90 deg over the point of resistance. 

 

No problems with the same setup (actually with just silent 3x Arctic and 3x Noctua 2000 RPM fans) on the 12900KS. The difference was the power draw: about 220-230W vs 270-280W (over quite extended periods). 

 

Also, with the PTM7950, things were working marvelously for about 2 weeks, then BOOM: two cores at 100C and power draw down to 240W, in a matter of a day or two. 

 

Thanks for the lapping tip, will start reading on that. I also have a couple of pics of the IHS and coldplate, after previous similar paste failures (Phobya Nanogrease lasted the longest, about a month, this is second-best at over 2 weeks). 

 

I mean, it's not the end of the road yet, a few more things to try:

* Lapping, now that you mentioned it

* Different AIO

* LM on the IHS

* Delid

* New case and custom WC loop

* Throw in the towel and power limit - will still handsomely outperform the 12900KS.

First place to start is the delid. You're going to run hotter than you would after a delid no matter what you do. You'll never have excellent temperatures with stock solder unless you get freaky-lucky and get a CPU like one of those that @tps3443stumbled into that can run 6.0GHz with something like 1.250V. Once you have the IHS off you can easily lap it, or get an aftermarket copper or nickel IHS that is already flat.

11 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Still 16GB of VRAM too lol. Someone could actually make use of this machine in creative programs. 
 

What does it get in something like port Royal? 

Horrible, like all GPUs made before NVIDIA discovered a proprietary way to implement ray tracing as a means of extortion. Slide show... literally. https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/90334138

10 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Looks like a member on Overclock.net compared the supercool Direct die VS. the EKWB Direct die. Identical settings on a stock 13900K. 

 

EKWB DD (63C-84C) water= 24.9C

SC DD G13 (58C-73C) water= 26.0C

Please post a link to that @tps3443

I am not happy with my results. I am going to be asking EKWB to accept an RMA and refund my money for selling me something that functions the same as a normal water block on an IHS. My temps are not worse. They are a tiny bit better, but not direct die results like I would expect. Should be a LOT better, not a little bit. Temps with the Velocity2 block are almost the same as Velocity2 direct die block. Not terrible, but why bother with direct die if it is not impressively better? Makes no sense to me.

Now, that said, I love how the EKWB part is made though. Very high precision and MUCH MORE pleasant to work with. I truly despise how the Supercool Direct Die block is made. Having to take it apart  to separate it from the ILM is super retarded. They should come up with something less inconvenient and messy, because that sucks. A frame like EKWB uses would be a bazillion times better. 

9 hours ago, Papusan said:

Is the last nr of the two (58C-73C) the hottest temp? Or the spread? I think the EKWB DD have too much metal.

 

Do really people buy this? It looks like a baby toy. The candy cooler for All White build with a dash of bling bling. The water tube in this shape is the worst I have ever seen. Only $200 for an High-End 240mm AIO. Hope you all get it a lot cheaper due reduced or no tax. Run and buy, LOOL

https://www.finn.no/bap/webstore/ad.html?finnkode=293580416&alertType=ss&finnMail=agent&stored-id=57532357

 

It could be that. It is EXTREMELY heavy. It may have so much metal that it is normalizing temperatures rather than lowering them.

White computer parts almost always strike me that way, even when it is crisp and clean looking. White is just not the right color to use from my perspective. It always sucks, even when it is not used in a disgusting way. The rainbow puke colors being added to the white simply create the impression of being a circus clown joke PC for children, and the rainbow merely exacerbates the magnitude of the ugliness. If you add stupid stuff like anime or cartoon images into the mix it then it becomes an object of contempt that is worthy of rejection and public ridicule.

4 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Well the noname PTM7950 failed as well. Angry at Intel for producing a practically uncoolable CPU, unless used occasionally for gaming. At least now it's clearer what Sapphire Rapids are for. 

There has to be something abnormal that is being overlooked. What are you using for a cooler? Maybe that is the problem. Are you using the Intel ILM or a CPU frame? I am wondering if the CPU shape and the shape of the base of your cooler are going opposite directions and need to be lapped?

Just now, Tenoroon said:

Obsidian is what I think you are trying to think of. I tried their fan control and it detects nothing and throws out a bunch of errors.

Yup, that was it. https://code.obsidian-pc.com/clevo-software/fan-control/

Weird. That used to work fine for me. Not sure why it's not working right. Way too long ago for me to offer any suggestions. (Obviously could not even remember their name now, LOL.)

1 minute ago, Tenoroon said:

To my P870 owners, is it possible to man fans without software without pressing FN+1. The keyboard for my DM-G finally died and no software is working well. I'm setting it up with Win7 right now and want to be able to max the fans.

There is a fan control utility from the Clevo place in the Phillipines (can't remember their name anymore, but I think Brother @electrosoftmentioned it once earlier in this thread). The guy's name was John, but I can't remember the business name.

15 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yup, looks like a small improvement.

Also no more yellow and red lights in Limit Reasons with Dell firmware cancer disabled with EFI variables overridden.

6 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Feast your eyes on these poopalicious GB6 scores with my Precision 7720 turdbook.

CPUx1: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/409416 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5218152_
CPUx4: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/409416 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5218151_
#1 of 1 submission world records... 😆🤣

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I used an EFI shell earlier today and wrote new values to the firmware to unlock the CPU controls. I will need to re-run the GB6 tests to see if it was of any value.

Yup, looks like a small improvement. I also disabled switchable graphics in the BIOS and forcing only use of the Quadro for graphics and for routing display output. Intel Graphics seems disabled now. HWiNFO shows zeros for everything.

CPUx1: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/413045 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5218488_

CPUx4: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/413045 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5218489_

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

That was literally like a $5,000+ dollar laptop back in the day.

Mine is in excellent condition and I paid 1/10th (just under $500) of the orignal cost.

I used an EFI shell earlier today and wrote new values to the firmware to unlock the CPU controls. I will need to re-run the GB6 tests to see if it was of any value.

1 hour ago, Talon said:

grab the latest version on GitHub. Looks cleaner and is actually labeled ReBar. 

Thanks. I dd not realize there was an updated version. It's not even that recent. I grabbed it.
https://github.com/Orbmu2k/nvidiaProfileInspector

2 minutes ago, ryan said:

its nice having more power but its gimped thermally. nothing on this laptop runs spec

I think it is rare to find any notebook that functions correctly. Some malfunction worse than others, but they're all junk now. Some people just pay extra for their broken junk and hope that it is less broken.

52 minutes ago, ryan said:

 

I didn't fair much better with my 11800h

But yours does have twice as many cores/threads and higher clocks than the older 7920HQ CPU, so that's good. They are both gimped 45W slopbook CPUs.

What about your graphics compute scores for the Intel and NVIDIA graphics?

Feast your eyes on these poopalicious GB6 scores with my Precision 7720 turdbook.

CPUx1: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/409416 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5218152_
CPUx4: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/409416 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5218151_
NVGPU: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/compute/155841 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5218157_
iGFX : https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/compute/155857 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5218160_

#1 of 1 submission world records... 😆🤣

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

You get what you paid for, HaHa

Although there is a degree of truth to this, I do not think it is accurate with computers, and ESPECIALLY not turdbooks.

I think the revision should says something like this:

If you pay extra, you are less likely to get screwed as badly as if you paid less.

But, even then it's not totally accurate. For example, you'll pay more for an Alienware and get screwed worse than if you paid less for something else.

But, yes Brother @PapusanRon White is right though... "stupid is forever" LOL.

8 hours ago, aldarxt said:

How you fell for the brainwashing tactics of the democrat backed Chinese tactics is a sad indication of how close our divided Country is to toppling. The only thing keeping US from becoming slaves to China is the Armed American Citizen.

That's why disarming us and having open borders make such "good sense" to those on the lunatic fringe. They want that.

8 hours ago, ryan said:

I was just testing, I want a babe pic and before I saw your post I already changed it to a babe lol.. yeah im not going to be a scary clown/ im a nerd into women

So, cool... what you're telling us is that you are normal then. 😉 

On the other topic, I've never been particularly scared of creepy clowns, but they are a strange thing that just makes you feel weird, like something is really messed up. I'm not exactly sure why. I think that playing the part of one is a great way to get shot, stabbed, beaten up, or run over by a car, because some people get totally freaked out and lose their minds when they see one. Even seeing a "normal" clown freaks some people out really bad. I've even seen people close their eyes or look away when they see a creepy clown on TV because they get weirded out. I actually Googled it and it has been classified as a real condition.

https://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/what-is-coulrophobia

Quote

What Is Coulrophobia?
Coulrophobia, more simply known as a fear of clowns, is a specific phobic disorder that causes distress surrounding the presence of clowns. While many people link this phobia to children, adults can also have it, as it often goes untreated for many years.

 

Coulrophobia usually flares up at parties, festivals, and Halloween get-togethers, as clowns are often found at these places. Yet, a person may also react negatively to the mere thought of encountering a clown.

 

Phobias are, by definition, an irrational fear of something, meaning that mere exposure to the situation isn’t a sure way to get over it. Instead, people with coulrophobia may opt to avoid these situations altogether — leading to isolation and missing out on important events.

4 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Looks like a OG MSI Gaming X! Based on picture quality. That’s probably like a 980Ti maybe? 

3 hours ago, johnksss said:

Not sure, I think 1080 or 1080 Ti's.

Yup. That seems like not long ago but it actually was longer than it seems. It was 5 years ago and they were 1080 Ti. I know this because my only 1080 Ti SLI benchmarks were run that day.

https://hwbot.org/submission/3839002_mr._fox_3dmark11___performance_2x_geforce_gtx_1080_ti_46904_marks

25 minutes ago, Rage Set said:

Andddd it's off! I am curious to see what Mr. Fox does with AMD on the GPU side of things. On one hand, it is a new experience and the chance to gain some points. On the other hand, I suspect his visit with AMD to be short-lived, hahaha. Mr. Fox, my advice is that dialing back the voltage aka undervolting on AMD GPU's will help you in certain benchmarks. 

 

One last thing, I don't remember using MPT and Red BIOS Editor on the Asrock 6900XT, only on my MSI 6800XT. I don't think I did it because I wanted to wait until I blocked it and as you will see, I never did block it. 

It will be fun to see what I can do with it. I haven't used those tools before. They did not exist as far as I know the last time I owned a Red GPU, so I will need to grab them and figure it out. Thanks, Brother @Rage Set.

Great news, Brother @Papusan! Looky here... you can get bling bling for your crocs now!

Hurry, before they are all gone. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BWTHRRW4

14 hours ago, Tenoroon said:

What programs do you all recommend for memory testing? I've never really messed with RAM at all, but @Custom90gtsold me his sticks and I'd like to make sure they have no errors at the speeds I'm using them at now.

All good suggestions have been made. Memtest86 and Windows Memory Diagnostic work well. I have issues with the native Windows memory tool trying to constantly launch in Windows and showing a system tray icon after running it through a cycle. It's very annoying and sometimes I have to try a few times to get rid of it. I have tried disabling it in Task Scheduler which only works about half the time and I have gone as far as renaming the executable file to stop it.

TM5 is super convenient. I also like using Run Memtest86 Pro from DangWang. Both of these are wonderful because they run within Windows. You can use them for testing live memory timings tweaks without a bunch of time wasting reboots. Once you get the custom settings dialed in, you can reboot once and go into the BIOS to apply them for final testing. There's another one I have that runs in Windows that also works well, but I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head. I'll have to find it and come back and mention it. I haven't used that one in a while. I always forget that I have it until someone posts something mentioning it in a forum and then I'm like 'oh yeah, I have that' LOL.

I have found pretty much all of them work fine for me.

Edit: @Tenoroonthe one I always forget about that works well is https://www.karhusoftware.com/ramtest/ and it runs in Windows.

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

No time for this now but good news for the old. Almost all of the nvidias AIB partners give a rat in their older graphics cards. And Maxwell have still driver support. 

 

The caring ends as soon as there is something new to sell. Business runs on money. They too easily forget that money comes from the people that buy the products businesses sell. The problem is they love the money, not the people they get it from. Pretty messed up, but that's the way the ball bounces.

Once in a great while we see an exception to that, and those companies are usually very successful. They operate based on The Golden Rule. They are few and far between, unfortunately.

Pretending it is true it's fairly common though. You can easily spot the liars because actions speak louder than words... ASUS.
 

5 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

 

OMG, I saw the first set of pics and I immediately thought, "Johnksss looks a hell of a lot like Carl Weathers!"

 

🤣

@johnksss is younger and more dashing than Carl. But, Carl looks good for his age.

38 minutes ago, johnksss said:

I forget, you may not watch any of his movies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Weathers

I thought he looked familiar in the first picture, but did not know why I thought so. Of course, he is a lot older now, just as we all are. I didn't connect the dots until you posted the additional photos. I have seen and enjoyed the majority of his movies. Very cool that you bought it from Carl. You definitely live in the right place to rub elbows with celebrities.

7 hours ago, johnksss said:

@Mr. Fox

My new to me ride.

That's who I bought it from.

That is a fine set of wheels, bro. Bummer the other one got totaled out, but looks like a worthy replacement. 

13 minutes ago, Rage Set said:

 

I didn't even know about the MC warranty policy, although I generally don't hold onto hardware long enough to invest time or money into a warranty. That is crazy, even if it is store credit. This may push me to drive the hour and half to my local MC more often. 

5 minutes ago, johnksss said:

Lets see...All my money back minus the cost of warranty or ebay/offerup/craigslist/facebook market place/forum stores - where the best I can hope for is half at the current market rate then have to pay fees...hummmmm. Yeah I'll pass on that. lol

 

The warranty is so you pay a bulk price once...then every time after that you pay the upgrade cost. And in some cases there is no cost at all and you get change.

 

But! You will need to make sure your microcenter operates like that. 

I've been tempted to drive the 7 hours to Tustin Microcenter a few times. The only thing that has held me back is finding out what I wanted is gone when I get there. But, one of these days I might have Brother John grab something for me and use it as an excuse to drive over for a visit and bring him the money. I'd probably not save anything by the time I factored in the cost of gasoline, but it would be a great excuse anyway. And, I'd have that warranty in my back pocket later if I needed it.

On 2/12/2023 at 11:14 AM, ryan said:

 

LOLOL>>> 🤣 somebody, somewhere, is going to use that as an excuse to be offended... it's too crude, but funny. A generation raised to view South Park as entertainment can't genuinely be offended, but it might be an excuse for virtue signaling.

New releases from Metallica... 

And, something completely different... "lock... lock... lock her in the tower... lock" 

14 minutes ago, johnksss said:

If they get one in at MC I'm there like white on rice, but anywhere else I'm going to have to pass. Right now no ones warranty policy is better than (Some of the Microcenters) MC. And no way I'm holding on to this card for 5 years. when the 4090 Ti and 5000 series hits this card is going back at a "no loss" price.

If I had to pick something good about living in a heavily regulated place like SoCal or Chicagoland, I think it would be having a Microcenter, LOL. (No offense to people that live in those places and love it, just saying there always something you can be happy about if you try hard enough to find something to be happy about.)

Well said, @Reciever. As people that have common interests and at least a form of friendship we should be able to have some degree of expression of what and how we think. Not to the point that we derail threads, have bickering or attempt to evangelize other forum members, but freedom to speak openly without having to worry about a chip getting knocked off a person's shoulder that is looking for reasons to virtue signal and be offended. Certain groups of individuals on the web actively seek reasons to be or play offended, use that as a cloak for their intolerance and leverage to silence those who have differing perspectives. We have already seen way too much informal and self-anointed police activity attempting to squash messages and opinions that go against the "official" narrative espoused by dictators of virtual space. In real life I have lots of family and friends that do not see eye-to-eye on everything, but we do not allow that to stand in the way of being civil and enjoying the things we have in common. That should be true with our virtual friends, too. If you have no idea what someone thinks or believes, then you really don't know them. Hard to consider them a friend or care about them as a person. Diversity is one of the things that makes America great. We don't have that when there is no freedom of expression on a two-way street. What we have in that case is a totalitarian variation of mob rule, often with the "mob" being a minority that likes to cry wolf and think their own poop doesn't stink.

6 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Last night I was benching 3DMark profile test. And the same is true for Timespy physics testing etc. 

 

Anyways, First run on profile test and I did not even make it to the top 100 leaderboards LOL. @Mr. Fox had beaten me. I reduced my ring clock from x51 to x48 and the difference was huge. Anyone else experience this with higher ring overclocking, may provide lower physics scores and lower 3DMark Profile test scores too. I saw the same thing with 11900K, but it only happens with physics test or profile testing. 🤷‍♂️

Yes, 100%. Going too far with ring/cache ratio or too high on E-cores can lower benchmarks scores just as going too far with a GPU memory overclock can. It might not crash or throw a BSOD, but it will begin to degrade because the CPU or GPU are struggling and not operating efficiently. I have seen that numerous times. Sometimes disabling cores/threads also increases benchmark scores. It varies by benchmark. There are also some benchmarks that do not benefit as much from overclocking the CPU cores and benefit more from the system memory overclock.

On a similar note, I have found that CPU and GPU overclock setting can bench stable and run 24/7 stable, but when you try to play a game with a bunch of sloppy coding or throw an API wildcard into the mix it is no longer stable and you have to tone things down to accommodate the issue.

I think the more complex software and hardware becomes, the more wildcards we encounter that require adjustments so that everything plays nice together. I think that is also why some people are not into overclocking as much. It requires more effort and experimentation than it used to. Some people view that as a hassle.

I've noticed more often lately that DX12 games can become more glitchy at times than a game that uses an older DX API. I have seen that with system memory overclocking. You can pass all memory tests with flying colors, no errors, and everything working smoothly. But, then one day you try to play a game that uses DX12 and it doesn't work right, won't launch or something else, and lowering the system memory overclock straightens it out.