Mr. Fox

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

The difference between an ASIC and standard IC parts can be a bit subtle, so I would excuse Jay there. Basically ASICs are custom chips (e.g. a Bitcoin miner, which can do nothing else), whereas ICs are standard, general-purpose parts. Despite what he said, CPUs and GPUs are not ASICs.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application-specific_integrated_circuit

 

https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/asic

 

In the case of GPUs it's more accurate to refer to IC quality, chip quality, silicon quality etc. 

He is not the one making things up. I do not know whose idea it was to start referring to it as ASIC quality. It is/was a real thing that some people cared about. Not remarkably different conceptually than an Asus ROG SP rating 

1 hour ago, ryan said:

quick question does anyone know how i can find my asic quality with my laptops 3060...gpuz doesnt seem to have it with the newest version..also i broke my record. 2100 barrier.

 

equates to less than this but I was getting artifacting

 

also worth mentioning I got my highest port royal score with stable clocks

 

 

i mean asic quality via gpuz eternal

 

 

Most modern GPUs do not report their ASIC quality. Open GPU-Z. Go to the Advanced tab. Change the drop-down menu to ASIC Quality. If it is not there, you are using a GPU that was designed after they started trying to keep trash bin silicon quality a secret. I don't know if it was Turing or Ampere when they started trying to keep the silicon quality hidden. Neither my 3060 Ti nor my 3090 KPE show the ASIC quality rating.

ASIC = Application Specific Integrated Circuit

Where is ASIC quality now?

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

After testing my Newegg one, I was like, "this is not bad at all and it's quiet." I was expecting similar or better results with the Best Buy one and it is acting like a Trio. I actually did a search on poor 4090 memory OC to see if such low numbers were possible and apparently they are for memory OC on some duds to hit + 700-900 max on memory and 150ish on GPUs.

 

 

 

It does make one wonder what silicon quality is in the HOF 4090 for $2500+?

 

Looking at some reviews, even some Founders cards had problems hitting +1200 memory OC, MSI +1000 and even the mighty Strix 4090 with a monster memory OC of +2000 (max) was stable at +1750 and GPU +180 with it's 120% slider:

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asus-rtx-4090-rog-strix-oc-review/2

 

Then you have tech power up and their nifty little chart of sample OCs:

 

 

 

I definitely remember my KPE 3090 being average both in memory and GPU overclocking. It did hit the promised 2025 out of the box. It was right around 2040 I think. But my KPE 3090ti was a much better sample both GPU and memory OC on average. It boosted to ~2070-2085 and memory was definitely >=+1000.

I really can't complain about the memory on my 3090 KPE. I can run +1600 in benches and +1500 for extended gaming sessions. That is definitely better than average in that product generation.

I find myself wondering if the goofballs at MSI think they can get away with slightly lower silicon quality on the liquid cooled model due to lower temperatures compared to the Suprim X air cooled. They're selling them for roughly the same price with the air cooled version usually just a few bucks more. What I mean by that is after they are built the water cooling goes on the worse samples of the batch. There is somewhat of a bit of logic to that thought, but it should not be applied to a halo product. That would be something that an end user would do to extract a few more megahertz boost clock, not something that an OEM should be doing to help offset or compensate for a lower bin quality.

44 minutes ago, Papusan said:

This is almost as a defective product. Or just say what MSI is able to throw out. If this is what MSI say is a binned product and want premium on top. No thanks. But your Newegg SKU is more the normal and what to expect for binned products. Slightly better vram than what I had. But all in all... Disapontment products from Msi. And in line with my experience with MSI graphics cards. Thanks for the testing brother. This just confirm my feelings about MSI🙂

I seriously doubt that they are actually binning the core silicon. I doubt that any of them are, even if they say they are. None of them care enough about the products they sell or the people that buy them to do that, but they certainly don't mind pretending they do and lying about it. I could be wrong and I am open to being shown evidence that I am wrong, but otherwise I believe they are just lying if they say that. A binned product should exclude everything other than golden samples and let the average stuff go to the gamerkids that don't know, don't care, want cheap.

If they are binning them, what they are doing is identifying below average  trash samples and putting the garbage samples on their least expensive gamerpunk bottomfeeder GPUs and only using average or better on the Suprim X. That's binning, but not the right way. Even EVGA did not do it the right way. The right way would be to identify the top tier silicon samples, set them aside and reserve them exclusively for the halo product. When those chips run out, you don't make or sell any more of the halo product.

EVGA binned the 3090 Kingpin. They actually had felt tip marker numbers written on the silver rim around the GPU core. Mine sucks at core overclocking... super average. Not horrible, but nothing worth being excited about. But, it cost the same as the better samples that lucky winners received. The only benefit I got out of it was avoiding something below average. Because the core overclocking isn't well above average the product was a waste of my money and regret buying it for that reason only. Anyone that buys a halo product should be a lucky winner. That is what they paid extra for, and that's what they deserve. If I am honest, I have to admit that the memory overclocking is superior, and notably better than average. But, that by itself that isn't good enough. I expected both core and memory overclocking to be superior.

Brother @electrosofthaving two remarkably different Suprim X in his possession is evidence that they are not binning, or that their QC failed. Not sure which is true, or if maybe both are true; meaning that they are lying and have lousy QC.

13 hours ago, Tenoroon said:

So many happy birthdays, I gotta do one too!

Happy Birthday @Mr. Fox! 

I appreciate your assistance with the past 3 laptops I have owned. While I haven't been with this community too long, I believe your knowledge and experiences have helped many people throughout the years, and I can't wait to see what the future holds.

I am also looking forward to learning from you a bit more in the near future. I finally pulled the trigger on that P870TM, and my goal is to make it as good as possible. I feel quite obligated to do so; it's the last good laptop ever created lol, so I must end with a bang as my days of primarily needing a laptop are limited. It's been quite a ride starting with the Alienware and climbing my way up, even if I've been a few years too late for every laptop I have bought since.  I'm glad to know everything I do and feel honored to know that a large chunk of that knowledge has come from you, so thank you man! It really does mean a lot.

Thanks for the birthday wishes, Brother.

I have always enjoyed helping people and while I have not been involved with laptops for a long time I am happy to provide whatever tips and helpful information I can. Congratulations on the P870. I agree that it was the last good laptop made. I also still believe it is overall the best laptop ever made. Everything produced since then has been an overly compromised piece of garbage.  I had a lot of fun with laptops for a lot of years for sure. I can honestly say that I do not miss them at this point. That said, I wouldn't trade the good memories and experiences I had with any of my monsterbooks.

13 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Anyways, man I’m really getting in to the new Dead Space 2023!! Fantastic so far, and the 3090KP is just kicking tail in 2023 😂

 

YOU GUYS NEED TO GRAB IT ON STEAM!! 
 

Looks like a game I might like. Cool that it was released on my birthday. I generally don't buy games until they drop to around $20-$25 so I will be waiting for a while for that to happen. I liked the previous Dead Space games, but lost interest and quit playing them before I finished them.

27 minutes ago, ryan said:

happy birthday @Mr. Fox 60  years young

43 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

@Mr. Fox happy birthday! 

Thank you, Brothers @ryan and @tps3443.

1 hour ago, Reciever said:

Good, that means we got at least another 60 years of overclocking outta you, 70 if we fine tune the FSB. 

The way things are changing, I don't know if there will be anything left to overclock much longer. Seems like there is a push to turn PCs into little more than severely overpriced glorified DIY game consoles from both the hardware and OS side of things.

Just now, cylix said:

Happy Birthday Mr. Fox!

Thank you, brother.

23 minutes ago, Reciever said:

Happy Birthday Fox! How many years young are ya this time around?

Thanks, Brother. I turned 60 today.

1 minute ago, Papusan said:

Not so sure 60% premium above already disgisting price is so much better if you walk with the Green side of products. They both offer little; Pay a lot.

 

Galax walks their own way.  RTX 4090 HOF Edition for only $2579 or 60% premium over vanilla 4090. On top... Forget getting their "special" OC tools who is only aviable for the elite benchers/the choosen one. You get the HW but not the needed toools.

 

GALAX launches its beefy and over-the-top 666W RTX 4090 HOF Edition for $2579

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/90160/galax-launches-its-beefy-and-over-the-top-666w-rtx-4090-hof-edition-for-2579/index.html

Everything from AMD and NVIDIA is a poor value. The cheapest 4090s and 7900 XTXs available sell for $500-$600 more than I believe they are worth. 

54 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, 7% faster is still better than no increase in perfomance. 
Family fight: AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT is up to 7% faster than RX 6950 XT but costs 28% more
https://videocardz.com/newz/family-fight-amd-radeon-rx-7900-xt-is-up-to-7-faster-than-rx-6950-xt-but-costs-28-more

You can only be in the pig pen for so long before you begin to look,  smell and act like a pig. AMD pulled an NVIDIA. Get a little; pay a lot.

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

Happy birthday @Mr. Fox! 

1 hour ago, Rage Set said:

Happy Birthday brother @Mr. FoxI hope you enjoy your day. I would love for all of us to have a virtual meeting one of these days, to talk tech and family. 

Thank you both, very much.

We should do a virtual meeting sometime. That would be good. I bet I spend 20 hours (at least, sometimes more) a week in Google Meetings at work, and video chat is the nearly exclusive means of internal communication, even for one-on-one conversations. I find using a cell or desk phone inconvenient at this point.

11 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Happy birthday @Mr. Fox! I take it most of us have grown children by now....

 

I guess that makes me the senior "youngin" in the group at a "spry" 52? 🤣

Thank you, brother. You're the young whipper-snapper. 😄

On 1/13/2023 at 6:49 PM, ryan said:

 

I NEVER get tired of Brother Tom's music. I think this one is in my top 5. His lyrics are phenomenal and I love that he calls the balls and strikes in a straightforward manner with no concern about whether or not it offends the idiocy of wokeness or those that care more about political correctness than integrity, truth and honesty.

On 1/22/2023 at 9:38 AM, ryan said:

yeah we dont need two threads talking about the same thing. It would be interesting if we posted chat gpt convos and emerson convos and see what we can come up with. with the old HAL AI I asked it if it was the CIA it responded yes this is the cia ect. sometimes you get funny answers sometimes scary like killing humans in 10 years. I am in the process of trying chat gpt open ais chat bot but it keeps saying servers are busy.

Yup... truly GIGO. That's what makes is scary and Orwellian. AI will never be an acceptable substitute for a sentient human being with a heart, soul and conscience. AI will always be flawed and process information in the context of the personal bias and views of its programmer(s). Nothing made by human beings will ever be perfect. It will always have varying degrees of flaws and defects.

13 minutes ago, Papusan said:

And this is for you my old friend❤️ Happy Birthday bro Fox.

Thanks, Brother Papusan.  ❤️ 

9 minutes ago, johnksss said:

Well I sure as hell feel all of 55 right now! 😂

Always remember... Fernando says...

1 minute ago, johnksss said:

Happy birthday brother Fox @Mr. Fox

Thanks, Brother John. ♥️ The big 6-0. That just doesn't even seem possible... totally surreal. I'm glad I don't feel 60.

13 hours ago, Papusan said:

Apple continue their sick engineering/developement. 

 

 

And, the Children of the Beast rejoiced and were exceedingly glad. They feasted on feces, sang and danced, "Hail to the Lord of the Flies, the Father of Lies, the Prince of Darkness, for his evil endures to all generations."

On 1/18/2023 at 9:28 AM, Etern4l said:

Sign of the times and things to cone.

Here's another one. Sad days and getting sadder by the hour.

4 hours ago, Rage Set said:

Steve at GN made an interesting point in his News video. With MSI Afterburner not being supported by the developer any longer and EVGA not really supporting Precision X, what will Nvidia GPU owners use to overclock future cards or worse, current cards? 

Galax and Zotac and PNY have overclocking tools that are standalone products and not UWP feces, and they work with other brands. There is also value left in NVIDIA Inspector. So, there will still be alternatives. It is heart-wrenching that EVGA is no longer in the mix. Aside from their superior hardware, I actually used PX1 more than Afterburner. It is a better product. My use of Afterburner has been limited for a good while. Even when I was still benching laptops, I thought EVGA Precision was more effective. But, it is still very sad that MSI Afterburner is probably going away.

It seems like NVIDIA doesn't care or doesn't want end users to have the ability to overclock. It probably makes it harder for them to distiguish new products as superior when there is not a big improvement. If you can overclock a X070 to make it look like a X080 or a X080 to make it run like a X090 it is harder to demonstrate value in the more expensive part. Putting things in a box maximizes profit potential for them. By limiting the current generation flagship they create extra space for the next generation flagship to look better than last generation's flagship product than it would if last generation's flagship could run wild and free. Smoke and mirrors, and masterful execution on the art of deception.

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

To be fair Nvidia doesn't cripple anything. In fact on Linux (and maybe Windows, I'm not sure) you can do even more fine grained overclocking, e.g. separate offsets per each of the "performance level",  using nvidia-settings command line tool.

 

AMD I guess.

They do cripple things. Lack of voltage control is the primary way they do it. They develop robust products with great potential and then limit the potential so they can offer different tiers of performance (for more money) without having to change much in terms of hardware. Just manipulate results using firmware. Easy money by screwing the end user.  And, still better than anything AMD has to offer.

NVIDIA Control Panel in Windows used to be like Linux with overclock controls. Now it is very limited and includes nothing for overclocking. Overclocking without voltage control and uncapped power limits offers very little opportunity for superior results. If your GPU silicon is poor quality, you have no voltage headroom. If it is better than average you can use up the excess voltage available in the firmware, but you are still severely limited in terms of how far you can go without more voltage.  

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

When better tools from other OEM won't work on its competitors cards, 3rd party tools don't work, you are forced to use own buggy/useless OEMs software or even castrated software from the HW manufacturer (meant for all AIC partners cards), new modern fancy software from Redmond.... This doesn't bode well. This smells as a coming disaster. We are already there with laptops and desktop hardware. Todays graphics cards is already castrated vs. what it could have been out from the factory. And then you have the castrating a few years after you bought your graphics cards. A nice new way to push you over on next new modern that will be equal destroyed later. 

The root problem is a lack of integrity, absence of principle and generally unacceptable business practices in the computing space, and those that suffer most from the unethical behavior are the enthusiasts that are getting screwed harder than any other consumer demographic.

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

All we can do is vote with our wallets - Azor-powered AMD is making the vote pretty straightforward on the GPU side.

100%. The only way to effect change is by deliberately and maliciously inflicting severe financial harm, and that is hard to do when you're outnumbered by brain-dead sheeple that are as dumb as a box of rocks. These are the same morons that view themselves as being informed and enlightened because they read "news" headlines and believe they have all the facts. You know you're scraping the bottom of the barrel when the only reason NVIDIA is awesome is because AMD sucks. We know this is true because that's what the clever marketing materials tell us, and our "friends" on  Facebook say so. That's no way to live.

6 hours ago, johnksss said:

Not sure if this has been posted, but...... miners still trying to have the last laugh.

Video is not in English though, but you can see what he does and get the general idea.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Cryptominers-are-selling-used-GPUs-as-new-with-repainted-VRAM-chips.685588.0.html

People that do things like this, and worse, make me wish I had chosen being a vigilante as my career path. They don't deserve the air that they breathe and it would be great if they never got any more of it. I'd take this one pro bono, LOL.

Here's one to avoid...

9 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

$13,600 for a small box with some bling bling. Yep, some nice HW but the price doesn't always match what you are willing to pay. But some will buy it anyway. 

 

 

8 Pack Asteroid MK2

• Intel Core i9-13900KS (OC) with 5.5 GHz (P-Cores)
• Asus ROG Strix Z790-I Gaming WIFI
• Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 (OC)
• 32GB DDR5-5600 CL36
• 5TB SSD storage
• Mini-ITX case

The handcrafted gaming PC relies on custom-made distro plates and hard tubes to cool the entire system, which, like all other components, are highlighted by a large number of ARGB LEDs.

 

That is an extreme example of an overpriced cheap product. There will never be a shortage on stupidity. The decimal point is off one digit too far to the right on that jokebox.

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Yep, but have to feed excessively voltage to be able to reach clocks the cheaper cards can run at default voltage is just sad. Remember you pay massive premium for the higher bin.  But didn't say you have to go with the cheaper cards with the cheapest made power delivery. Cheap always come at a price that "reflect why it's so cheap".

 

Edit. Forgot to say my Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 Gaming is dead. And Gigabyte always go with at least two revisions for their HW within short time. I wouldn't jump right on a newly released graphics cards from Gigabyte. Nope, not me. 

Yes I'm not into playing cheap stuff either. The cliche that you get what you pay for doesn't always apply to expensive items but it always applies to cheap items. And I don't mind spending extra for something awesome if it's actually going to be awesome.

I've never really liked Gigabutt or their product offerings and I would absolutely approach the idea of buying something from them with some level of fear and trepidation. I've always been happy with Asus products until they failed and put me in a position where I had to deal with their product support nitwits and their crappy warranty service. I'm always quick to forgive mistakes, but I don't have any respect for companies that are dishonest and look for opportunities to shirk their contractual obligations. I think Asus is that kind of sorry outfit. I have no respect for them just as I have none for the Redmond Reprobates. The contempt I have for them was created by their unacceptable behavior.

It probably makes no sense in the grand scheme of things to believe that any company from China, the enemy of the free world, is worthy of trust or respect. It is unfortunate that any economic dependency on them exists. Cheap slave labor is profitable for greed-driven companies.

27 minutes ago, Rage Set said:

 

While we have had poor luck with Asus mobos, I will say I have never had issues with an Asus GPU (even the TUF series). From the 1080 TI up to the 3090, they were good to great. It just so happened to be beaten by a KP card. 

I'm never owned an Asus GPU. I have had zero problems with their cheaper mobos like Strix and Prime. I just don't like them as a company or their sucky warranty service. If I'm given the option between their brand and something equivalent in a competing brand I'm just more inclined to choose the alternative. I'd consider buying a Strix 4090 if it were cheaper, but I don't like the idea of paying a lot extra for something that's not going to give me a lot extra, or the idea having to fart around arguing with crooked bastards that don't want to honor their warranty if something goes wrong with their overpriced piece of crap.