Mr. Fox

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

Why not just reduce the price for the Cpu and MB and let the people determine themself what memory kit they want to buy?

 

You Will Get A Free 32 GB DDR5-5600 Kit & $50 US Off AM5 Motherboards If Your Purchase An AMD Ryzen 7000 CPU At Microcenter
https://wccftech.com/get-a-free-32-gb-ddr5-5600-kit-50-usd-off-am5-motherboards-purchase-amd-ryzen-7000-cpu-microcenter/

It is obvious from the direction that technology is heading (downward) that a lot of people are ignorant, lazy, or both, and prefer to let someone else make all of their decisions for them. This is reflected in their hardware, software and operating system choices. Many people do not overclock anything. I have met a fair number of folks that would proudly tell you they are a tech enthusiast that don't know what overclocking is. Some of them still think of it as a sinful behavior that is always harmful or breaks things. 

Many probably don't care if the memory is fast or average as long as the computer boots and runs without errors, and they value the fact that it is "free" more than whether or not it is the fastest kit.

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

Btw. What you think about the airflow direction on the fans below the fried 4090? Why use the bottom fans as  exhaust fans? So he could smell the smoke faster?

Maybe the person that built the system wanted to pull air away from the GPU rather than pushing cooler fresh air to it. Some people act like they really hate their expensive computer parts. but I think it is often a matter of ignorance or poor judgment.

18 minutes ago, Rage Set said:

 

 

That sucks bro, I'm sorry. I don't normally get the extended warranty on these cards because I don't own many of them for that long and it wouldn't transfer to a new owner anyway (unless I know them well and send it for repair on my behalf). Hopefully you can get it fixed. 

I appreciate the condolences, but there's nothing for you to be sorry about. You blessed me with a great GPU at a wonderful price and there hasn't been a moment of dissatisfaction with it. The only reason it's not still working  flawlessly is my fault. I accidentally knocked my tower over while cleaning my office. When I turned it back on it had this problem. I'm thinking (hoping) that the shock of it getting slammed with a heavy waterblock bolted to it simply fractured a tiny ball of solder, and hoping it will make easier to repair than something that failed due to fatigue or electrical malfunction.

There's a really sad element to that if you're an enthusiast when you stop and think about it. As consumer contentment grows with largely untunable cookie cutter crap that is a one size fits all solution gains traction with the zombie horde, the options to choose something special continue to slowly evaporate. Loss of user control and an increase in creator autonomy go unpunished. It is interesting that sheeple are so lazy that they are willing to pay extra for something they have less ability to control or enhance.

26 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

thanks again for the software pointers bro Fox, unfortunately MSI Dragon Ball doesnt play BALL (pun intended) with my 7950X 😄 

Dragon Ball works on my Asus mobos (present and past) not EVGA (present or past) but only Intel platforms. Dragon Power is a proprietary MSI-only product.

5 hours ago, tps3443 said:

With how advanced these new 13900K’s are. Using the newest Intel XTU is really the way to go with overclocking. It’s quite advanced! And user friendly. Plus, you are able to get peak potential from the cpu by leaving nothing on the table. 
 

I don’t use their auto tuning or anything. But manually overclocking with XTU is really awesome. It gives such great control over everything including the timings in real time. 
 

And I’m not having to jump in and out of the bios lol. 

Man, you're missing out using XTU brother. It's handy, yes, very, but it is a virus that consumes system resources and impairs performance. It adds extra services to your Windows installation.

You should be using Dragon Power and Dragon Ball for CPU and memory tuning. If the version I have works for 13th Gen you'll be set. Dragonball works on my ASUS Strix for memory tuning in Windows. Both programs work really well for me, especially Dragon Ball. Neither of them consumes resources like XTU does. When you apply settings and close them, there is nothing left running and neither one of them are modern UWP filth. They are "portable" apps that work on Windows 7.

MSI Dragon Ball1.0.0.08.zipMSI Dragon Power1.0.0.6-intel.zip

OK, so I think this is going to be my daily driver overclock profile. Temps are OK without the chiller. That Sabrent kit was definitely better than the other generic kit. Runs 7200 with tight timings very stable.

I finally got around to testing the 2080 Ti with MATS and it has a failing RAM module (B0). I thoroughly cleaned and inspected the card and it looks like new otherwise, but I haven't done any probing. I am tempted to try a reflow on that one chip with my hot air station to see if it fixes it, but I probably should send it off for repair. It is still too good of a GPU to just kick it to the curb. Probably has many more years of service left if I fix it. @Rage SetI registered the card at EVGA and it is out of warranty. It has served me well and taken no prisoners in battle, too early for retirement.

mats version 400.184.  Testing TU102 with 20 MB of memory starting with 0 MB.

Read    Error Count: 0
Write   Error Count: 717805
Unknown Error Count: 0

=== MEMORY ERRORS BY SUBPARTITION ===
SUBPART READ ERRORS WRITE ERRORS UNKNOWN ERRS
------- ----------- ------------ ------------
FBIOA0            0            0            0
FBIOA1            0            0            0
FBIOB0            0       717805            0
FBIOB1            0            0            0
FBIOC0            0            0            0
FBIOC1            0            0            0
FBIOD0            0            0            0
FBIOD1            0            0            0
FBIOE0            0            0            0
FBIOE1            0            0            0
FBIOF0            0            0            0
FBIOF1            0            0            0

Failing Bits: 
   B000 B001 B002 B003 B004 B005 B006 B007 B008 B009 B010 B011 B012 B013 B014 B015 

=== MEMORY ERRORS BY BIT ===
P : Partition (FBIO)
                                            READ 0 READ 1 READ ?
P BIT READ ERRORS WRITE ERRORS UNKNOWN ERRS EXP. 1 EXP. 0 EXP. ?
- --- ----------- ------------ ------------ ------ ------ ------
B 000           0       776620            0 595624 180996      0
B 001           0       688440            0 271326 417114      0
B 002           0       806002            0 655095 150907      0
B 003           0       776706            0 180896 595810      0
B 004           0       688386            0 417028 271358      0
B 005           0       747347            0 210980 536367      0
B 006           0       688395            0 417049 271346      0
B 007           0       776663            0 180955 595708      0
B 008           0       629617            0 298088 331529      0
B 009           0       747307            0 211014 536293      0
B 010           0       776535            0 595472 181063      0
B 011           0       747350            0 210957 536393      0
B 012           0       776594            0 595601 180993      0
B 013           0       747319            0 211022 536297      0
B 014           0       688416            0 417131 271285      0
B 015           0       659160            0 301303 357857      0

report.txt

16 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Looks really great. Bump those E-Cores just a tap and you’ll be there! 
 

How do you like the 13900K? I did not own a 12900K but it does seem like a worthy improvement. 
 

After I bought those parts from you, I was tempted a few times to go after 12th Gen. But it was worth the wait for 13th.

I might be able to push them  some more, but the E-cores are the weakest link on this CPU. Yes, it was a nice upgrade from 12900K/KS. MOAR CORE is seldom something to complain about.

32 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

I recall playing around with static voltage initially with a lot of instability as a result for some reason. The contact frame actually improved things quite a bit, so maybe worth giving this another try. 

The offset mode yields stable results for pure undervolting + minor E-core OC purposes at least. The problem is I need the settings to be super stable, so testing cycles are kind of slow resulting in inertia and reluctance to tweak further 🙂

 

The best way to keep your CPU stable is to give it more voltage or undervolt less. That is assuming you can keep it cool, of course. Stock voltage is usually too much. Using adaptive voltage gives an impression of success, but the fact is that allows the CPU to do what it wants to. If I am too stingy with voltage, static voltage is not stable for me either. You usually can't set static voltage to a value seen using adaptive voltage or it will be unstable. The part that you can't see is what the voltage is doing between sensor polling cycles.

Speaking of more voltage... The issue with 7200 stability was the bin quality of the memory was inferior, so my better kit is fine at 7200. I've installed the better M-die kit.

13 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Thanks for this. Something to try vs the simple offset method. 

I know it is popular, but I never use adaptive voltage with an offset. Using static/manual voltage always works better for me. I have played around with it some, but it is never stable when I push the overclock harder.

Moving a little closer to the edge. Will have to try my other M-die kit. This one keeps causing the "Memory Changed" issue at boot up at 7000 (although stable) and it is not stable at 7200.

Brother @tps3443 is either living right or struck a deal with the devil on the 11900K and his 13900KF. Two lucky strikes in a row. Only he could tell us which one is more accurate. 😉 

4 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Have you tried maybe 4000~4266 in Gear 1? 

Not with the 12900KS. Haven't had time to experiment, and since it is my work computer less of a recreational priority for me.

CENS has BIOS overclock profiles in the firmware on the Dark mobos. It's worth a lot more than market value based on the silicon grade. I would ask him what he has in mind for the price rather than give him a price based on what you think is fair. When you are selling something rare and in demand, the pricing should reflect that.

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

In that case it's probably not far off stable state, very nice.

Yeah, the DDR4-4400 overclock is totally stable. I let it run for TM5 2.5 hours last night with no error. It requires a fan blowing on it just like DDR5. A fan blowing on it keeps the temps 38-40°C. Without the fan it hits 50°C within a few minutes and starts throwing errors in massive quantity, eventually ending in a BSOD.

4 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Impressive! Is this long-term stable (by that I mean at least 24h without issues or crashes)?

It hasn't even been installed 24 hours yet, but it seems stable so far. I generally do not tune my benching system for that though. I generally tune for highest possible benchmark scores and do not need it to be able to run Prime95 for hours. I still have a lot of learning and tuning to do.

This is an accomplishment for the Strix D4 mobo. Rare to see an ADL DDR4 system capable of doing this.

Time for bed. More tuning in the days ahead.

Well, it is looking like the 12900KS is going to be a really nice upgrade for Banshee, my work PC. It's running nice and cool with the delid considering it is shut up in an enclosed case and the RAM run stable with this CPU at 4400 16-18-18-36 1T just as it did with the 13900K.

9 minutes ago, johnksss said:

OS crashed then on reboot that was what i got. Windows 11 had been working fine until that happened

Hmm, my Windows 11 crashed real hard on the first attempt to boot with the new BIOS. It froze and then blue-sceened at the logon screen with the spinning circle and I could not power down. Had to turn off the PSU. Never worked right again after that. All of the USB ports were dead in Windows 11, but not in the BIOS or Windows 7 or 10.

47 minutes ago, johnksss said:

Well, Unify-X is down again... Started with a USB device drawing to much power and would turn off after 15 seconds. Did that for about 10 tries to get it to boot with nothing plugged in and then it went to - - in the lcd display. Not exactly sure what I did this time as I was benching at the time. Time will tell if it gets replaced or thrown in the gutter and do not buy another....

 

RMA has already been issued....

 

My ASUS Maximus Z690 Hero

FRIST RUN!!

BAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah right!

 

I had to relearn the damn voltage first.

 

Are you having a problem with Windows 10 or only Windows 11 with the USB issue? I don't know if you saw my post the other day, but when I flashed the updated bios for 13900K something went haywire with Windows 11. None of the USB ports worked anymore. I used a PS/2 mouse and keyboard to navigate and tried numerous things. I could not find the cause or fix the problem. It did not affect Windows 7 or Windows 10. Shutting down would hang.

When I attempted an in-place upgrade/install as a possible solution, it repeatedly failed. Since I could not resolve it, I ended up having to clean install Windows 11. No idea why, but it is very weird.

34 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yes they look really good so far. Probably not going to worry too much about the overall SP rating as much as the P cores. If 13th Gen anything like 12th the E-cores  are not going to overclock worth a damn anyway. Later tonight I will take it out of the Asus mobo see how it runs on the Dark. Before I take it out I'm going to see if the DDR4 memory overclock is any different on this generation or if it's still sucks the same. That would confirm that the issue is the motherboard is weak were memory overclocking is concerned.

21 minutes ago, Talon said:

From what I'm hearing IMC is still a crap shoot at least with DDR4, some getting an extra bin or +133mhz over previous DDR4 stable. 4133 Gear 1 would be pretty monster though, 4266 likely a golden chip? 

DDR4 is absolutely a lot better than it was with 12900K and KS. It would not even POST at 4400 before.

13 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

Those are actually really strong P cores. 

Yes they look really good so far. Probably not going to worry too much about the overall SP rating as much as the P cores. If 13th Gen anything like 12th the E-cores  are not going to overclock worth a damn anyway. Later tonight I will take it out of the Asus mobo see how it runs on the Dark. Before I take it out I'm going to see if the DDR4 memory overclock is any different on this generation or if it's still sucks the same. That would confirm that the issue is the motherboard is weak were memory overclocking is concerned.

On 10/24/2022 at 12:04 PM, johnksss said:

Damn. got a SP99 this time.

On 10/24/2022 at 3:41 PM, johnksss said:

 

Same here, SP99... but better P-cores and worse E-cores. 

Is that CPU Force 2 136 the same ASUS SP99 CPU?

4 hours ago, tps3443 said:

@Mr. Fox

 

What is Sp?!!!!!!!!

 

 

Waiting anxiously. 

4 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

yep, DDU is a must, thats the same on laptop and desktop haha 🙂 

 

and indeed! WHATS YOUR SPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP? go ahead and show @Talon and @tps3443 what a REAL golden sample looks like 😄 

I am working but will know something soon. I can't stop working to disassemble my work computer to find out, LOL. Soon means today.

5 hours ago, tps3443 said:

You planning to bin for a gold sample 13900K? 

No, only reserving the right to return or exchange a crappy sample rather than live with it. I couldn't go through a full-fledged binning process even if I wanted to because I do not live within driving distance of a Micro Center, and I wouldn't ask a friend to be my gofer.

3 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

see, for this kinda stuff its good to have the community around 🙂 ive just been out of the desktop game way too long, but its fun learning the new stuff!

Indeed. I love it for the same reason.

To add  yet additional insight to previous comments, when I say reinstall the driver I mean run DDU and clean install. I thought that something was wrong with the Mech-15 not supporting an external monitor after cross-flashing with a Clevo vBIOS but apparently DDU removed registry components that caused conflicts and doing that fixed the conflicts. If I installed the driver on top of itself it didn't work correctly versus the clean installation.

Just now, jaybee83 said:

 

aha! that might be the culprit. i have automatic driver install disabled and the driver im running is a custom one, not the standard crap direct from Nvidia. so might make sense for me to remove the driver first, flash vbios, then try again for a display signal.

Jay had a very similar issue with the STRIX OC 4090 where it wouldnt be properly initialized due to the driver. thanks for the info, definitely worth checking out!

If I had to guess it would be something gets changed in the Windows registry when the driver package is reinstalled. Just speculation on my part, but seems logical.