Mr. Fox

44 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Edit: Flashed with no issue. Here are the new M-die and A-die profiles from Vince and Luumi.
(Nothing from CENS, but I never liked his profiles anyhow. They always kind of sucked.)

DAAYYYUM!

@Talon

My generic green M-die sticks just booted and loaded Windows at 7800... LOL.

 

All I did is load a profile and set boot priority. I haven't tuned anything and it's not 100% stable. But, wow... M-die running like this is pretty great. Eager to see how your A-die runs Brother @Talon.

 

Brother @Talon - new Z690 Dark BIOS is released. Gonna grab it and test now.

---

Edit: Flashed with no issue. Here are the new M-die and A-die profiles from Vince and Luumi.
(Nothing from CENS, but I never liked his profiles anyhow. They always kind of sucked.)

3 minutes ago, Papusan said:

HaHa.

 

New has to be better, LOOL

Nothing is too crappy for the gamerboy muppets. The best drivers are the drivers that work best. Doesn't matter whether they are old or new.

16 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Regarding small chassis. The The H7 Flow Mid-Tower, this is not the smallest mid-tower chassis, then imagine how it is to work in the smaller SFF chassis😀

I would prefer not to think of such terrible things. 😉

 

On 11/30/2022 at 9:44 PM, Papusan said:

New test bios out for Asus Z690... v2204 RaptorLake Resources

Still no MC SP for the Strix, but this BIOS is stable and now the Strix can easily run the M-die at 6800. It could before, but for some reason rebooting would usually produce Q-code 55 unless I turned off or unplug the PSU and now it does not do that anymore. So, that is good.

13 hours ago, Papusan said:

Edit. Damn small box. I'm not used to this. Neither for laptops and neither for desktops. I love big. Everything has to be big. Bigger the better. I can barely work with my hands inside this box, HaHa. One cm headroom left before the chosen GPU will crash in the pump, LOOL

Yeah, I hear you. Working in cramped spaces on a desktop is infuriating to me. It makes me angry any time I have to work on a system where stuff is packed in like a can of sardines. The only thing better than bigger is no case as all. Moving to a desktop should make accessing everything easy and comfortable, not sucky like a laptop.

8 hours ago, johnksss said:

Well, MB is off to RMA yet again. User error is killing me with this board.🤦‍♂️

While doing a flash back I thought the flashing was done after forgetting about it for like 10 minutes or so. I power cycle the board and no boot. Double white line. I try to boot 2nd bios and because the first flash apparently wasn't done it messed up the second bios. Oh brother!

 

Hit up MSI and they had RMA ready with paid label in under 5 minutes. From me starting off by saying "bad bios flash"

Not sure what is different, but they are footing the bill this time.

 

In other news.... I was able to reserve a Zotac and a Strix 4090, but then the Strix fell off and it kept the Zotac. LOL It's still sitting at Microcenter right now. Along with a Suprim X. They just got a shipment of cards in while I was over there looking for a replacement for this stupid MSI board and this Liquid X. They also have some Strix 4090's but guess what? All of them are DOA! So that was why they took the one I had in cart.🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️😂 And of course I asked how did they know this and their reply was...."Because we open them all and tested them." As to why they would even know to do that first? Guess Asus must know something or customer returns in less than 24 hours. I did not ask about the latter of the two.

Sorry to hear that. You've certainly had a "Mr. Fox experience" with that thing. I am glad they seem to be focusing on providing a better customer experience this time around. Hope all is well with you otherwise, bud. 

5 hours ago, tps3443 said:

You’re only 60? I am 32 years old. Honestly 60 ain’t old in 2022 though lol. But I feel your pain about the other stuff. I have (2) kids and a wife and it’s definitely expensive to live! Having fun with computer parts keeps me occupied. And it’s a lot cheaper than other hobbies like drag racing cars etc. 
 

One more thing, It’s absolutely crazy that Corsair is selling people garbage A-Die for $300+ dollars that they have already tested to not be good. They are binning that stuff way too tightly and leaving you nothing. They even sell a 7000 set.. Very greedy of them. I assure you my Team Groups are great. They are 7,200 C34 XMP and are reliably handling 7800 daily. I’m at my motherboard limits now for sure. Only a Z790 Dark or Z790 Apex would save me now. Which, I ain’t buying just to break 8,000 DDR5 lol. 

I had three kits of the TeamGroup DDR5-6200 M-die and all three were outstanding quality. I did not like how they were shaped and wished they were not RGB. On the Unify-X they were a challenge because of the backplate waterblock on my 3090. It is kind of ridiculous how it is nearly impossible to buy memory that isn't the RGB crap. I wouldn't mind it that much if the heatsinks were not applied in a retarded manner, or if the default was white instead of rainbow puke for all of them. I hate having to install trashy software to change the LEDs to white. That is so stupid.

 

I am a young 60, in good health partially because I deliberately work on it, and because I am blessed. We had 5 kids and I know how hard it is to make ends meet. I have worked like a dog my whole life and I am more than a little bit angry about the mess we are in now economically. It was so avoidable, but bad decisions were made and continue to be made by idiots with a socialist mentality. I still feel young, and act young, but 10 years passes in the blink of an eye. Hopefully, there will be enough time to recover if we can stop the nonsense before it is too late.

 

Totally right about this being a "cheap" hobby compared to the alternatives. In fact, I gave up street rods, drag racing, motorcycles and guns because it was no longer sustainable with 5 kids. I turned that passion to computers because it was doable (but still a challenge sometimes). I have always been a little bit frugal, and haven't spent nearly as much as I could have had I bought everything I wanted to buy. 

This sold on eBay for $425 and the buyer paid. Shipping it today.

1 hour ago, jaybee83 said:

funny to see how "frugal" youve become in terms of spending money on new hardware my man 😄 but totally the sensible thing to do! nevertheless, i find it amazing how crazy fast DDR5 prices have dropped in just 3 short months. i can now get a 32GB 7600 kit for the same price as i originally bought my 6600 kit 😮 

It is not because I want to as much as it being necessary. I am trying to save for retirement and with the shambles Brandon has made of our economy and the amount his nonsense has nuked my retirement nest egg, I am starting to worry about what the future holds for me if my 401K and IRA savings continues vaporizing. Not to mention that the cost of gasoline and groceries have skyrocketed and just covering the bare necessities leaves me with less money to spend on enjoying life. I turn 60 next month and I hope I don't have to extend my planned retirement from age 70 to 80.

 

I spotted a kit of 7600 for $399 and ordered it this morning. I thought about what I had just done and cancelled the order an hour later. I need to be smart, and sometimes that is challenging when you're passionate about something that costs money.

 

Lots for Mr. Fox to think about. Getting old sucks.

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

Nice. I guess Assus is not ideal for Linux. What's that application you used to adjust clocks? 

https://github.com/vagnum08/cpupower-gui

19 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Thats great. But Money saving due the better effiency won't pay off. You still pay more than for an cheaper PSU with similar or slightly less efficency. It's there you will save your $$$$. More expensive means always less $$$ back in your pocket and over the (PSU's) lifespan.

The idea of spending money to save money is almost always flawed. The popularity of selling "solar power" is a great example of that. Sure, it can lower your electric bill. But, it is so expensive that you will be very old or dead before the cost of acquistion is offset by the monthy savings. There is some sound logic supporting the concept of harnessing solar power, but saving money is a dangling carrot that is misleading. It's not an intelligent solution for people with limited financial resources. They can't afford it.

19 minutes ago, Papusan said:

How is this even possible? First you have to enable ECC in NCP for benching  (with performance penalty) then you now need bios updates to play games with 4000 series cards. Nice. Older gen GPU as 3090 Ti have also ECC support but you don't need to enable it for benching. Nice.... New tech is always better. Or shall we say new tech sucks more than ever? Put in what fits. 

I am sure the idea behind making it possible to turn it off is just one of NVIDIA's tricks to fluff up the performance numbers for marketing purposes. If you can increase performance by 5 or 10% by disabling ECC you can market the new product's superiority based on those numbers with ECC disabled.

I forgot to show... even this application works correctly on the Z690 Dark motherboard. Can adjust CPU frequency on the fly.

 

One thing that I love about EVGA's BIOS is the "Always Show Boot Option" feature. I wish that it was a requirement that all motherboard manufacturers enable this feature. I install my OSes independently so each has its own bootloader, then use EasyBCD to modify each OS bootloader to give me the option to change my mind after hitting "enter" on the EVGA Boot Option screen. This feature of the EVGA BIOS is always enabled on my systems. It waits for me to tell it where I want to go. No need to spam any buttons for BIOS or boot selection. It just sits there and does nothing until I tell it where to go. If I connect a USB drive, it shows that in the boot menu as well. I absolutely LOVE this.

 

13 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Thanks. I'm sure the main benefit comes from the OC/WC. So my windows score in Bedroom was basically dead on 3000 on stock, so your +10% due to OC sounds about right.

 

My 12900KS CL indigo scores were  bedroom 4142,  supercar 9061: basically, correcting for OC: Bedroom +30%, supercar +10% on CL vs Windows.

The 13900 bedroom score with +200Mhz on E-Cores was kind of insane: 5980 (+45% vs 12900KS on CL). 

 

The snappiness of this distro is palpable just during normal interaction with the GUI/window manager, and doing the same work on Windows 11 just feels very noticeably laggy. But yeah, the Nvidia drivers support situation is not pretty. The initial setup was actually bearable, but I've been unable to normally update the OS for several versions now (actually only tried like twice). Just keeping it as is on the "don't fix it if it ain't broken basis", but eventually I will need to update and that will probably involve some tinkering unless they fix whatever broke either X or the the Nvidia dynamic kernel modules. A number of updates prior worked fine, so there is hope. I think they are shooting themselves in the foot with this Nvidia thing. Nobody likes Nvidia, they are def the enemy of the people now, but they are the market leader in GPUs so they should just support the drivers for the sake of their users until Arc or something else takes over. CL adoption would go through the roof that way. 

 

As expected, Linux Mint was worthless in terms of correcting the issue. I honestly do not believe it will be corrected unless ASUS does something right on the firmware side.

 

I do not like NVIDIA as a company. They deserve to be hated, but I love their products and they are what I want to own. It's almost like the opposite with AMD. I don't like AMD products and avoid owning them, but I want to like AMD as a company. I do not believe they are honest or good, but they're the lesser of two evils on the GPU side of the business. Intel is kind of in the middle. I don't hate them, I like their products, I want their products, and I do not find them as easy to dislike as the other two. AMD's presence in their digital ménage à trois keeps everyone on their toes and I am thankful for it.

---

Edit: here is an example of a newer CPU, same chipset, functioning correctly. I think pointing the finger at ASUS is appropriate. @Etern4l

2 hours ago, Talon said:

 

I'm sure you're on the latest BIOS, but still EVGA has yet to tune the BIOS for proper A-Die support IMO. I think they're either saving that for Z790 release or using it as a way to get people to buy the Z790 Dark and that annoys me. Asus is releasing BIOS updates almost daily at this point, constantly tuning for A-Die, to the point that I have 7200 CL34 A-Die stable on my Z690 Hero 4 dimm board plug/play XMP. That is just sad that such a high end 2 dimm board is struggling so badly. 

 

Try 1.26 VDDQ IVR TX/CPU VDD/ CPU VDDQ TX. I can't remember what it's called in the EVGA BIOS right now. After I did this I was able to boot well into 8000+ but never stable above 7800 CL36. 

Already returned it. Yes, I am on the latest firmware from EVGA. I will just wait until I can get generic naked modules for less than branded retail. I like that a whole lot better now that I have that on both systems. No need for XMP (I can manually tune better) and worthless heatsinks that are difficult to remove. Both pairs of the generic UDIMMs I am using work better than the retail M-die kits I have owned that cost double or more. I might even just skip it if I can keep my silly urges in check. Since I am not doing any serious benching any more, there is no good rationale or genuine need for anything faster than what I already have.

 

At one point I thought these sticks had bricked my system. When I was trying to tune it tighter and with higher clocks it would not POST any more and was giving a one beep error code ever 2 seconds and clearing the CMOS didn't fix it. Swapping back my old sticks didn't change anything. Still the one beep thing. After I used the reset button next to the power button a second time it finally came back to life and booted normally. The clear CMOS button on the rear I/O would not correct it.

1 hour ago, Custom90gt said:

@Mr. Fox

I know you're selling your 2080ti, but I came across this on [H]:

https://hardforum.com/threads/ddr3-ddr4-ecc-unbuffered-2080ti-heatkiller.2023571/#post-1045517453

 

Not sure if the Heatkiller would work on your 2080ti, but figured I'd link it since it's a good price.  Maybe a way to keep your 2080ti, lol.

Thank you. The 2080 Ti FTW3 is not a reference PCB and takes a special block. It looks like that one probably will not fit it. I am selling it only because I need the money more than I need a spare GPU. I really appreciate you thinking of me though. 

 

It actually sold yesterday on eBay and I had to relist it this morning. The fellow that bought it unexpectedly had his credit card limit lowered to his current balance by the bank and he didn't have a way to complete the purchase. 

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

@Mr. Fox

 

I would return the Corsair 7200 sticks, grab some Hynix A-Die green sticks! 

RMA is already approved. Just need to drop it at UPS. I might do that. I would prefer that so I don't have to dink around with chintzy heat sinks and RGB rubbish. But, I haven't found any for sale other than what Splave is selling on HWBOT forums for $200 more than I am willing to spend. When I can find a pair of 16GB generic A-die sticks for $300 or less, I probably will. I am glad I saved the Thaiphoon Burner information so that if I do find some generic sticks I can pass on them if they are the same 4800 garbage A-die part number as what I am returning.

Just now, tps3443 said:

This is absolutely incredible!!! 

That is the guy that fixed my 2080 Ti FTW3 that had a bad memory chip. He is up in the Portland, Oregon area. Brilliant fellow. Watch some of his other YouTube videos. Very entertaining and amazing to watch him in action.

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Well, you have really good Hynix M-Die memory, which is kinda hard to beat! In my case, I was coming from DDR5 6000Mhz which seemed a little touchy at 6600Mhz+ and not the best timings. But now I am running my Hynix A-die DDR5 at 7800Mhz. So it was a real solid improvement to bandwidth and latency. I was able to sell my other memory, so I own this Team Group 7200 ram for $250 which isn’t all that bad. 

This won't boot past 7600 and it is not stable at 7400 unless I use sloppy timings that make it slower than my generic M-die sticks. It is probably a really lousy A-die sample. I only bought it because it was $300~ and I can now see why it was cheap. I am not willing to pay more than what I paid for this, so I will probably just keep using my $80 green sticks that are blazing fast at 6800 with crazy tight timings. Since I am not seriously pursuing benching any more, it was probably silly of me to even buy this to begin with.

 

I did verify it was definitely Hynix A-die though. The IC part number shows it. But, it is weird that it shows 4800 as the speed grade. That is probably an indication it is a poor grade of A-die. I did not even know there was an inferior 4800 JEDEC A-die. 

 

Seems like I am a magnet for inferior silicon. I am getting tired of playing the lottery. 

 

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Looks like you finally grabbed some Hynix A die. That’s very cool! I’m curious to see where you can take it while on that Z690 Dark. 

I think I am probably going to return it for a refund. I am not impressed with it. It's not as stable as my M-die and the minor improvement in performance isn't worth the $300 I paid for it.

15 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Looks like you finally grabbed some Hynix A die. That’s very cool! I’m curious to see where you can take it while on that Z690 Dark. 
 

So far I’m running mine at 7800 C36. The 13900K I’m using is not anything special with a fairly high Force 143 rating, but for some reason it stabilizes this DDR5 7800 very well.

 

 

How is the Aqua Computer waterblock? It looks very nice! 

Yes, I got it from NewEgg on Black Friday sale for $318. I like the waterblock. Thank you. I think it looks nice, too. It works well. It is a lot less restrictive than the Optimus block. My flow rate increase by around 60 l/h just from installing it.

Benchmark of the unmodified Corsair XMP profile. Horrible thermals, as expected for all DDR5 with stock heatsinks heating blankets. These will be going on water.

 

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Yeah, kind of as expected. I did look into SuSE, as this is one of the first distros I've ever used, but didn't find any benchmark evidence of outstanding performance.

 

I presume those CPU scores are just a sum of the 3 component benches: junkshop, monster and classroom, if so then the total CPU score I was getting with stock 12900KS running something like 4800Mhz CL38 RAM was 493. I presume your scores were obtained on an extensively OC-ed system, if so the real gain to be realised is somewhere between 10 and 30% vs Win11 in blender, depending on how much RAM speed weighs into this, otherwise it's "just" ca. +10% here. In Indigobench the first scene score was over 4k. I remember this clearly, was a jaw-dropping result - over 30% faster than on Win11. The second scene was closer. GtG, will check tomorrow. (GPU scores are virtually identical BTW).

Here is the Indigo info... the other thing to keep in mind is my Windows installations are modded and tweaked. I don't allow Micro$lop's filth to run amok. I physically remove Cortana, Defender, Edge, removed some services and manually stop many others. Massive difference and makes a direct comparison between Linux and Windows more difficult. The comparison is  Linux against Mr. Fox's Windows, not what most people use.

 

You can see from these results that do have other Linux distros, openSUSE performance is poor compared with Ubuntu-based distros.

 

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I will do the blender and indigo benchmarks after work.

@Etern4l here is the Blender benchmark. Indigo is still downloading. Will update the post after I run that.

Another incredible repair. Funny comment about the Arizona heat (which I can obviously relate to).

 

11 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

On this C-state thing: some Linux distros expose the familiar "high-performance, balanced,.." power settings that might help. I don't know how to set this via kernel parans etc. because I didn't have to look - the Clear Linux philisophy is io run everything at full speed. I'm sure you would love this distro from the performance perspective, but getting Nvidia to work properly and keep it that way across updates takes extra work. Other distros woth looking at from this perspective are RHEL variants: Alma, CentOS Stream, and possibly Rocky. Installing Nvidia drivers on those is trivial in comparison, it's supported. Nvidia explicitly supports Rocky. 

 

Windows obviously has vastly better CPU tweaking and monitoring tools, but in the end all you are doing is tinkering around the margins while certain Linux distros give you an outright 30% performance boost. 

 

I've seen a YT review (the one posted in the CL thread) where the guy claimed games run noticeably faster too. I wonder if CB would see a gain, but a first quick attempt to get that to work failed. 

 

BTW if you are interested in giving Clear Linux a try (it supports Plasma), I will walk you through the Nvidia setup, it's actually quite easy because someone wrote a script for this, although one or two extra config tweaks are needed to enable coolbits for instance. 

 

The first question is: is there an actual performance delta between SuSE and CL? Could you post blender and indigobench CPU benchmark results from your SuSE? 

There are a couple of replies in this thread validating my thoughts about it being ASUS firmware-related goofiness. (They didn't know my thoughts and assumptions, but their replies validate what I have been posting in this thread.) https://forums.extremehw.net/topic/2433-post-your-desktop/?do=findComment&comment=31395

 

I have always wanted to try Clear. So, yeah, I am open to that because I think it is worth investigating. Running everything at full speed is definitely my modus operandi. I like Plasma and Mint DEs because they closely resemble the classic Micro$oft Windows GUI. (I prefer Mint over Plasma.) I do not like the aesthetic of most of the other alternative DEs. The default Ubuntu DEs with tiles, crApple-ish docks and sidebars are repulsive to me.  I also do not like the Windows 95-ish look of default Gnome shells. Give me a panel and menu that look and feel a lot a dark-themed Windows 7 shell and I'm happy.

 

I will do the blender and indigo benchmarks after work. I have found good success using Lutris to run Cinebench (R11.5, R15, R20 and R23) very effective. Cinebench scores are usually within 1-2% of Windows, but always slightly less. I am assuming that is because of the WINE layer adding overhead. But, it would still be useful for comparing performance between Linux distros.