Mr. Fox

16 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

Saw that a few days ago and thought about posting it but I kind of expect the same outcome as you so I did not even bother.

 

It is sad that we have seen this so often that now we automatically expect the worst. M2 slots are a great example - we used to have an optical drive and 2 2.5" drives in top of the line laptops so now we should easily see at least 4 of those m2 slots, right? And for bigger workstation laptops maybe 4 x m2 slots and 1 x 2.5" slot for a cheaper 2.5" SSD, right?

Nope - down to at most 2 x m2 slots by now for all but three laptops in this generation so far (1 x 4, 2 x 3) - pathetic.

Everyone have a barf bag within reach and stay within eyeshot of the nearest toilet. Soon we will see the industry advance beyond stupidity. It is inevitable when the industry is run by morbidly idiotic people that are incapable of doing anything good or acceptable. In fact, it would be illogical to expect anything different as long as the same people are allowed to continue screwing everything up. The only solution to stopping the damage is to remove the people causing it, compel them to find another career that is tolerant of their faults and replace them with alternatives that will pull their heads out and do the right thing.

Next up from their bottomless pit of personal computing filth, "gaming" turdbooks with soldered NVMe with an embedded OS, soldered RAM and "upgradable" storage in the form of flash memory a la Chromebook.

I recently snagged an extraordinarily good deal on a small portable IPS dislay that I can use for business travel so I am not encumbered by a single display on my laptop. I figured I could also put it to good use at home on my pleasure rig. I have a few finishing touches to add, but here is my almost-done AIDA64 sensor panel to use on it.

It does not look like it is easy to find information on 4090 engineering differences. I do not know why the specifications pages (even on the OEM web sites) are not making mention of things like power phases and clearly identifying dual versus single BIOS models.

I found this table where a person is compiling the data from sources where it can be found. It is very puzzling that the manufacturers are not advertising the detail, especially on the higher-end models. For example, if you go to the product page for the 4090 Suprim X they say nothing about the power handling capacity of their flagship. -????-

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1461611-rtx-4090-vrm-meta-analysis-and-feaib-comparison/ 

Do they really think that every person dropping a gigantic wad of cash on their overpriced stuff is that stupid and does not care about how much effort (or lack thereof) went into building it?

Here is something from a channel I haven't seen before. Small subscriber base, but actually a pretty good piece. This channel will likely end up being successful if this is the quality he typically puts out. (I have not watched any other videos from this channel yet to know.)

Interesting how poorly the 7900XT fares against the 4080. I expected the 4080 to be better, but not by such a wide margin.

13 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

I will just drop this here, don't shoot the messenger:

LOL, that's too funny. Where did you submit the text for a robotic interpretation? I've not seen that before, and I'd be curious to know where you went to submit it.

I'm sure this can be programmed to effectively censor anything that the programmer or group utilizing it deems obstructive to a specific agenda and I suspect it is already being deployed at some for narrative control and opinion manipulation in social media. I wonder how long until totalitarian governmental bodies begin using and abusing it widely? (Probably already do to some extent... would be naive to think otherwise.)

This is kind of interesting.

On 1/17/2023 at 2:17 PM, ryan said:

hes actually got a good point. its hard to say how brainwashed we are

It's true. We are a largely brainwashed global society that has been fed so many lies that much (probably half) of the population is unable to discern between right and wrong, fact versus fiction, etc. And, they don't want to because it requires too much effort. Social media has made it worse because the social media moguls control the narrative to suit whatever nonsense fits their agenda. Stupidity has been normalized, along with an irrational push to normalize a ton of other things are are very abnormal. People tend to pick a side and go with it based on nothing more than what is popular among the people they think want to be associated with.

1 hour ago, cylix said:

Yes then the only options are something like the high tier: amp,  suprim, strix or the aorus master.

 

Also FE is a good choice unlocked 600 w power and also 20+4 phases

I don't think I have ever seen a 4090 FE available for purchase before. All I have ever seen is "sold out" at Best Buy.

42 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

I had a Gigabyte Aorus Master 3070 and that card was a beast. Ran cool, no coil whine and overclocked like a champ with good memory so I am good with their GPUs. Their motherboards on the other hand....

 

Asus and MSI seem to be the coil whine champs this time around but my Liquid Suprim X 4090 is crazy quiet. It takes >~220fps to get it to start making any type of coil whine noise.

 

I managed to snag an MSI Gaming X Trio OC 4090 from BB with discount and BB 5% rewards = ~$1495.39 total in my hand the other day only because a local (ish) store had one in stock sitting in there. When all is said and done it is ~$415 cheaper than my Suprim X 4090 which when I contacted Newegg they said would allow a one time return for full refund (since I've literally never returned anything to Newegg ever in 20yrs) so I'm tempted to pick it up and give it a whirl. It is ~1hr away drive so it is sitting there waiting for me till Feb 1st while I mull it over.

 

It has the same PCB as the Suprim but with cut down phases. I really like this Suprim a lot but I also like $415 in my pocket too (Well, $400 calculating gas there and back).

 

 

 

 

That is a REALLY good price for the Trio. Would be hard to resist it.

20 minutes ago, cylix said:

From what I found while researching for a 4090 to buy, the zotac 4090 trinity and the oc have 14+4 power phase design like palit and Gainward. The amp extreme has 24+4 and also binned chip like the strix and suprim.

Also I can relate to the others owners of the zotac. No coil whine whatsoever 😀

Thank you. I had not seen that the AMP has 24+4 versus 14+4. Great info. That is a big difference and probably a good reason for me to continue to reject the notion of possibly settling for a Trinity version some day. It would not matter if I were only buying a GPU for playing games. The only reason I would consider buying a 4090 is so I could overclock the living crap out of it, so I would want something that is less likely to fail at the sole purpose I would waste my money on it in the first place.

26 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

I can't quite figure out why Newegg has so many of these shipped and sold from Newegg and at MSRP and they keep coming into stock while they're completely sold out elsewhere.

 

They routinely say limit 5 even on high demand items and I just checked and they're out of stock....again.

 

4090 and 7900xtx are routinely out of stock. Every other card is pretty easy to find.

 

Of course the "fear" is this supply of Gigabyte cards will eventually dry up as BB and Amazon rarely, if ever, have them come into stock.

 

 

Yeah, I agree. While I am not a fan of the Gigabutt brand, that question has crossed my mind as well. I thought maybe these were junk and had lots of issues, but my impression from some quick research is that almost everyone that owns one loves it. In fact, I saw many posts that suggests that owners of this model 4090 and Zotac are among the most pleased 4090 owners. The thing I think I like most about this GPU and the PNY models is how nondescript they are. Not much in terms of bling or weirdness, just a plain jane plastic shroud covering a heat sink. That may be why they are not selling fast. Maybe too many people want the gaudy-looking coolers and lots of rainbow puke, so they pass on the plain-looking options?

Some of the more expensive cards are having issues and suffer from very loud and annoying coil whine and it seems like many of the owners of this GPU and Zotac 4090s bought them as replacements for ASUS cards with severe coil whine. This 4090 and the PNY 4090 seems like they are easiest ones (usually the only option) to find in stock versus other options. So, I expected to see a lot of negative comments from owners. I couldn't find any. All seem pretty darned happy. Anecdotally, it seems like the most complaints are from the owners of the most expensive models.

Another anecdotal observation, that may or may not be accurate... it seems like there is no meaningful difference between any of them. Aesthetic features aside, it seems like a simple vBIOS cross flash would essentially make most of them exactly the same in terms of functionality, with little or no difference in physical hardware at the PCB level or performance. So, which cooler do you think looks best is the first question to ask, and if you are going to block one, does it even matter what you buy? Mostly cookie-cutter gamer junk other than vBIOS/TGP changes?

The Zotac Trinity has been frequently available on Amazon for between $1700 and $1850 sold and shipped by Amazon. I could have purchased one 10 times this week had I wanted to. But, the AMP AIRO is missing in action. Almost never available and always at a stupid price. Again, other than a vBIOS/TGP difference that could be cured with a cross-flashed vBIOS, I am not sure there is actually any real differece.

Either NewEgg got a bunch of these in stock or nobody wants them. They are allowing up to 5 per customer and the price is a tiny bit less insane than normal. They have not disappeared quickly like they usually do. This has remained available for three hours at the time of my posting it.

GIGABYTE Gaming (GIGABYTE) GeForce RTX 4090 24GB GDDR6X PCI Express 4.0 x16 ATX Video Card GV-N4090GAMING OC-24GD

1 hour ago, Rage Set said:

 

 

He's clearly trying to walk this back. Look at his pinned comment. He should have not stated in his first video that the drivers caused this, without proof. That is why he is getting pushback. There was speculation that these were mining cards but a lot of sole Nvidia fanboys tried to use this matter as additional ammo against AMD. Sure, AMD messed up bad on their reference designed GPU's, but this came at the right time to help fuel the fire.

Interesting that even with new pads and paste and max fans 95-100°C hotspot is status quo on those GPUs. That is certainly enough to abbreviate the lifespan of a GPU. Those are unhealthy turdbook-grade temperatures.

The damage shown at 14:10 is pretty scary looking. Whatever is causing it is obviously not good.

1 minute ago, Raiderman said:

 

Back im my day, it was....Can it run Unreal tournament. Fitting that its Unreal Engine pushing the envelope again.

I had two of those 5870's crossfired, or maybe it was the 4870's...

 

 

I was a diehard ATi fan back then. My kids all had desktops I built for them. I had many happy hours with my four sons playing Quake, Quake II and Unreal Tournament on the home LAN. My daughter never really got into it, but she had a PC to do girl stuff with. Not sure what the girl stuff was, LOL.

It doesn't matter how crappy laptops get. The sheeple will always fall in line and comply. The companies selling trash know this.

4 hours ago, Talon said:

 

A single cable out of the many thousands they've likely sold does not equal not good. The cable was not fully seated, plain and simple. It's been proven and tested to be the cause of the fried cables. There is a reason why the issue has mostly disappeared after those findings were shown, and the masses figured out they needed to seat their cable. This guy stated he was regularly checking the cable over a couple of months and likely managed to finally not seat it fully. 

Well said. I totally agree with that. I think it is spot on. 👍 Seems like human nature is to make a federal case from every anomaly and fabricate an impression of crisis from fringe exceptions.

That said, there is a secondary element to it that is inescapable. The new connector design is flawed and poorly conceived to the extent that it makes the possibility of failure due to human error magnified. Even if you know of the problem and solution, there is the possibility for human error or unknown factors to lead to a truly unfortunate outcome. By unknown factors, I mean the cable gets disturbed in such a way that the connection becomes compromised without the user's awareness. It is unfortunate that more thought and intellgence was not employed before the change in design was deployed.

GPUs with multiple 6+2 pin connectors are much less likely to experience the same problem because power delivery is handled through more than one conduit. If one of the two or three connectors is not fully seated, the additional 8 or 16 connection points reduce the amount of resistance and stress experienced by the one cable with the poor connection. The new design limits the conduit to a single point of connection and creates much greater risk for resistance and overheating to occur. There is only one shot to get it right, and if it's not right there is potentially going to be hell to pay for it.

This was an example of change for the sake of change, for the sake of creating the need for something new to sell, for the sake of making more money. It was not a change born of necessity or need. It was a demonstration of collusion, greed and an irrational need for the Green Goblin to take control, and make itself the center of attention as an agent of change and disruption of the industry.

NVIDIA is getting caught with their pants down. Poor judgment seems like a popular trend.

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

Seems Nvidia will go the laptop route for RTX 4060Ti and castrate the TGP. Why do the same for the desktop cards? The same for 4070. There have been rumors regarding Nvidia reportedly pushing the power envelope of the RTX 4070 down to 200 W from 250W. 

 

Surprisingly-low RTX 4060 Ti TDP figure could see the GPU consume much less power than the RTX 3060 Ti

It doesn't need to perform well, run cool, or hold boost clocks as long as desktop screenshots are impressive and marketing materials convey a positively crafted story to please the kiddos. Optics are job #1. It's all about selling. Results are optional, and achieved only by accident.

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

I've done that so many times with various items over the years. There is a sense of satisfaction when you know you could have purchased it but opted not to. When presented with the moment, common sense (for now 🙂 ) kicked in.

 

If I still had my 3090ti I would not have picked up a 4090. I was blessed to be able to sell my KPE 3090 at the height of the crypto-crazy times for more than I paid for it and sell my KPE 3090ti for everything I paid for it when all was said and done (I think I came out ahead by like ~$50-100 when all was said and done) to afford me the chance to pick up a 4090 free and clear of other financially dragging cards. I basically swapped my 3090ti for a 4090.

 

The 4090 is a monster upgrade especially with the newer RT cores. 4k gaming with the 3090 and 3090ti still hit walls and lows the 4090 overcomes now placing the burden on the CPU while still capping my display in FO76 and coming real close in WoW. My next upgrade is definitely a CPU. I'm not seeing how the 5090 will offer me anything that would be an improvement for my use case*. My problem will now be CPU limits.

 

You could always set a price for your KPE 3090 and list it and if it sells apply that to a 4090.

 

You can also pick one up from Amazon that, unlike Newegg, has a full return policy versus replacement only policy.

 

*As always I reserve the right to eat crow and pick one up because.....why not? 🤪

One always have to be very careful with Amazon and Newegg to only purchase products that are sold and shipped by them and not resellers. It's a roll of the dice what the return policy will be if you buy from a third party vendor selling in their marketplace.

One of the things that gives me pause is what anecdotally seems like a normalization of performance and limited ability to overclock enough to distinguish yourself on a leaderboard. If this is true, it kind of defeats the primary purpose of me wanting one. I'd never buy it with gaming being the primary purpose. I do that too little for it to matter and both of the GPUs I own are more than capable of providing a very gratifying experience when I do. 

I also remind myself that it's not a one and done. I don't want air cooling and I don't want hybrid. So that means added cost for a waterblock and I don't want to use the crappy short pigtail so it means either a PSU upgrade or a fairly affordable Cablemod replacement. So, whatever I do requires additional costs to have what I want, how I want it.

8 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

Thanks!!! This BIOS is SOLID for me so far. Finally got 8000 CL36 with my green dies and a terrible IMC stable. Going to test 8200, maybe even swap in another chip to see if I can get it stable. Very happy with 8000 CL36 though. Happy to see EVGA still supporting this board and getting A-Die on track finally. 

You're welcome. I am glad that you're getting results as good as I am. Be sure to post in the BIOS update thread. There are a lot of whiners with Classified boards complaining that their 4-slot mobos don't overclock the memory as well as the 2-slot Dark, Apex or Unify-X motherboards, and some are expecting their low budget Samsung B-die to overclock like Hynix, LOL.

What is your forum name at EVGA Community? It looks like there are 3 or 4 "Talons" over there and I can never figure out which one is you.

Some 4090 owners are having no-POST/BIOS freeze issues, some with black screen issues until Windows loads (no video in BIOS), with the GPU installed. Some kind of weird vBIOS firmware conflict. What GPU are you running? Have you had any issues on the Dark mobo with it?

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

LOOL and it continue. Either people download the latest and greatest Intel Chipset drivers on Asus own official driver support page or in the driver thread in Asus forum..... They all continue install bugged drivers with a nice surprise as boot errors. And the more warnings you put out in the forum thread, the more they want to download and install, HaHa 

 

 

 

 https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?131838-DRIVERS-Intel-Chipset-MEI-VMD-(6xx-7xx)/page2

 

 

Edit. Still not a single world record worth with 13900KS. I expect the elite benchers got the golden samples of 13900K silicon from Intel and partners before the 13th gen was released.... https://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i9_13900ks/

To build on the reality of consumer stupidity and ignorance, here is a repost of my comments in EVGA forum. People keep griping that EVGA is not updating IME or providing new ME drivers, which is utterly retarded. EVGA actually allow disabling Intel ME in the BIOS, but they are oblivious to that benefit that other OEMs do not offer. EVGA also leaves it unlocked so you can easily flash an old ME version if you wish to do that. Most OEMs do not allow it to be disabled/enabled in the BIOS at will, or downgraded to an older firmware version.

There is no tangible benefit to updating Intel ME firmware or drivers, or Intel Chipset "drivers" (which are not actually drivers at all). There is no point in EVGA updating it either. An Intel ME firmware update will not improve performance, but has potential to impair performance through the worthless watchdog timer. This can be disabled in the BIOS and ME drivers omitted because it serves no valid functional purpose on a consumer product unless they are using vPro. It is designed for use in an enterprise environment and as a backdoor access point that can be exploited by hackers, Intel and Micro$lop. For this reason it is often disabled on government computer systems.

DISABLE INTEL’S BACKDOOR ON MODERN HARDWARE

Intel’s Management Engine

Quote

Intel Active Management Technology (AMT) is hardware and firmware technology for remote out-of-band management of personal computers. It allows someone else to monitor, maintain, update, upgrade, and repair a computer. Out-of-band (OOB) or hardware-based management is different from software-based (or in-band) management and software management agents. Purism Librem computers avoids CPUs that have AMT (or as Intel calls it vPro enabled), and do not use Intel based networking, thus disabling this capability at the hardware level. However this does not change what the ME is capable of, which is why having a freed ME is so important to the Free Software Foundations Respects Your Freedom

certification.

 

https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3594874

 

At the end of the day you're better off with a bricked ME than a functional one. The behavior and stability of your computer will be unaffected, but it might be more secure.

I know they absolutely do not care, but at least they are going to hear it.

I am feeling kind of proud of myself. I had several opportunities today to purchase "not from reseller/sold and shipped by" Zotac and MSI Suprim 4090 GPUs today between $1700 and $1800 on Amazon and NewEgg (including one just about 10 minutes ago). While I was tempted, I said no to checking out, emptied my shopping cart and walked away. 12 equal payments with zero interest wasn't enough to change my mind. These would have been easy payments, but when I considered the cost per month it seemed like more money than the degree of pleasure I would derive from having it. The lure was definitely very tempting though. I think I would be lucky to get 90 days worth of benching fun out of it before it no longer served any useful purpose for me.

It is probably good that I do not have a Microcenter here or I would likely be doing a "free road test" right now knowing I could bench it a bit and get my money back if I changed my mind.

7 minutes ago, Tenoroon said:

I managed to find a a guy selling a barebones P870TM and I plan on getting it as I dislike the cooling on the 1080 in the P775 and have some extra money re-cooperated from selling some old devices and fixing some stuff up.

 

I'm really considering pulling the trigger, but my only question is if the Prema BIOS for these machines supports 9th gen CPUs. This one luckily has a Prema BIOS and I'm just curious if it can do that as it would be an added benefit.

I can't remember now, and don't really want to. Maybe someone else knows and can give you some sound advice.

That said, a P870 is a whole lot better than a P7XX.

17 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

So I've gone through 5 or 6 Windows 10 LTSC installs, and finally found one that I might stick with. It's  22h2 Windows lot. Not sure if it's a bug with the install, but it resets to the default theme after every reboot. I'm using a modified iso, so that may be the problem as well. Hopefully I will find some time this weekend to run some benchmarks. Of course I may be formatting again if this install pisses me off further. Meanwhile Windows 7 purrs along on the other nvme with three drivers not installed, and two disabled, (AMD wifi, and the integrated Radeon gpu). Canonkong helping me figure out the three that won't install. Honestly I'm having more issues with the Windows 10 install, than with 7...*shrug*

Why not LTSC 2019 (1809)? It has less cancer.

Just use a normal ISO and run the script to destroy/remove Defender and then use CTT debloat script and you're good to go. It will cut your life-sucking services by about half and be similar to Windows 7 overhead.

The modified ISO files are often very buggy and I don't use them. And, the end product isn't any better than doing what I suggested.

On 12/9/2022 at 9:52 PM, Papusan said:

For laptops....... In any form and shape

Yup... a big... fat... stinkin'

GIGO... feeble minds produce feeble products

2 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

Wait, are there actually software utilities for overclocking within Linux now?

Limited to a great degree, but 99.9% of all overclocking is something I do in the BIOS anyway. I almost never change anything working within the OS like what was often necessary with a laptop due to lack of BIOS controls. The problem I have had on the Strix mobo was not with overclocking. It was Linux not being able to identify or report accurately on the CPU clock speeds. It was/is working perfectly on my EVGA Z690 Dark and not working at all on the ASUS Z690 because their implementation of ACPI is all buggered up and not talking to the Linux kernel. I am happy to have found a workaround for the incompetence of ASUS.

Given your occupation, what you would likely find even more amazing is the fact that, with very rare exception, almost every game title on Steam that is "Windows Only" runs flawlessly on Linux using Proton Experimental. In many cases the DX11/12 titles run better on Linux using Vulkan, even when it is "not supposed to work" it almost always does.

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Haven't used anything on the CPU side, but clearly yes, as per bro Fox's screenshot. What's interesting though is that Linux NVIDIA driver has direct support for GPU and memory OC as well as (basic) fan control in the CP - something Windows has never had.

Green With Envy is better than MSI Afterburner. I do not know if there is an AMD solution for GPU overclocking, but it is very good for NVIDIA.

Things are finally starting to fall into place. I was beginning to think I would never get the ASUS motherboard to function correctly on Linux like my EVGA motherboard. ASUS is such a pain in the butt sometimes. CPU seems to be functioning correctly now.

I used Linux all day long for work yesterday. Once I figure out how to get Micro$lop Office working correctly on Linux, I might finally be able to kick Windoze to the curb. Everything is just so much cleaner without a trashy OS.

OK, I finally got the turbo issue sorted on the ASUS mobo. 

22 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, screw ups from Redmond is common and can't be avoided if you want to follow up their patches monthly...

 

Microsoft Defender update kills Start Menu shortcuts and program files on Windows

 

 

The possibilities are limited only by their incompetence and lack of concern for the importance of producing a good product. This is 2023, so they rely on end user stupidity and the deception of frequent buggy patches and change only for the sake of change to be mistaken as something useful and beneficial. The exact opposite is true.