Mr. Fox

4 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

not smart to use global setting with these selections, it is best to do it per application,

setting these in global means dGpu is always running at max power increasing heat in a mobile chassis needlessly (likely there's an iGpu there too), when its per application system will run much cooler with less power consumption until an application that needs dGpu power is running, same applies for desktop only there the heat retention is usually less critical than in a mobile chassis,

Good point, but it's also not smart to build or buy something like that in the first place. The problems with heat, power and build quality are a self-fulfilling prophecy.

15 minutes ago, Papusan said:

@Mr. Fox Congrats with the Suprim Liquid X. I still wait for the 4090 Strix OC. This damn card is always empty in the stores. And the stores is filled up with all other 4090's I don't want🤯

Thank you. I still feel stupid for buying it last week, and almost cancelled the order several times since then. It has not shipped yet and I almost cancelled the order this evening.

There are no Strix 4090 for sale anywhere from what I can see, and I don't want to pay an extra $400-$500 for one. I have only seen one available once and it was around $2499. I have a hunch that ASUS has temporarily stopped making them because sales are too slow and not many people are willing to pay stupid 4090 prices. I think all of the AIB partners are being conservative on production so they do not end up having excess stock they can't move like what happened with so many 30-series cards that are still available.

48 minutes ago, Reciever said:

Hey thanks for sharing, anything I should know in regards to the flashing or is it "plug and play" since its just going from one 3090 to another? I was only able to pull about 450w from the 3090 on the EVGA OC vBIOS. Read on their forums that it should be 500w after a certain point. Power limit seems to be 119 on mine which I think means it already has that vBIOS (not the provided, but the EVGA iteration). 

 

Honestly shouldve done this a while back, I've been in a state of high functioning depression. Benching this week is giving me something to do and I owe much to Prema for all his work over the years.

Nothing special to know. Other than it changing the hardware ID and name to "Galaxy" in GPU-Z it functions exactly the same. The only vBIOSes that don't play nice with other GPUs that I am aware of are the ASUS morphodite firmwares because ASUS HDMI/DP port mapping is proprietary and ends up leaving you with one or two display outputs that do not function. If you flash back the original firmware everything (including HWID and GPU name) will go back to original.

PSA: I ordered a MSI RTX 4090 Suprim Liquid X and I am debating whether to put the 3090 Kingpin in my work computer and sell the 3060 Ti FTW3 or vice versa. I got lucky and snagged a "sold and shipped by Amazon" GPU for $1799. No third-party seller drama and no scalper fees.

Probably going to sell the 3090 Kingpin so I can cover a larger portion of the cost of the upgrade. If anyone is interested, please let me know and I will put it up here in the marketplace or we can do it via PM.

I always like to give first crack at my parts to people I know before I sell on eBay or Mercari. Having the mutual trust is a plus, and so is not rewarding eBay and Mercari for highway robbery on ludicrous seller fees and greedy Nazi "authorities" that believe it is OK to double-tax buyers for sales tax on used parts where sales tax was already paid by the seller on the new parts. It is still under warranty with EVGA.

I just did a fresh application of thermal putty on the VRMs, new Snowman thermal pads and KPX a week ago.  It has the XOC 1000W vBIOS provided to me via email by Vince (Kingpin) on the LN2 BIOS position, original box, etc. Excellent condition. I have the original hybrid cooler parts that will be included in case someone wants to use it on a system without a custom loop, but I currently have the Hydro Copper block on it and an MP5WORKS waterblock on the back plate.

Before I sell the 3090 I want to make sure the 4090 is not a dud that I need to return to Amazon for refund or exchange. If it is poor to average silicon quality, I will let them have it back to pawn off on someone else. So, I am not in a huge hurry to sell the 3090 and won't even be ready to for probably two or three weeks if someone is interested but doesn't have cash tomorrow. I won't even have the 4090 until the end of next week, so no rush.

I think Brother @Raidermanneeds this GPU so he can experience the goodness of ray tracing. 😜

8 hours ago, Tenoroon said:

The P870TM finally arrived, and I spent all day so far moving everything over, but wow. This thing is just insane, GPU temps don't get over 70C with the vapor chamber, CPU runs nice and cool, 3 M.2 slots is nice, and the Prema BIOS is just phenomenal. Though, I do have a few questions.

The backlights are stuck to being this gawdy looking yellow color, but the keyboard refuses to change the LED color or even dim them, they're just stuck yellow. I thought the keyboard was broken so I swapped my known working P775 keyboard in it and it is still that same yellow color. Is it possible for me to change the color in the BIOS or via software?

I also want to know if I can dim the back lid LED's as those are stuck on a white color.

With a bit of trial and error, I managed to get my 870 EVO into the SATA slot, but it was really difficult as the SATA out on the SSD didn't want to line up with the connectors on the motherboard. I have a slightly thicker 2tb HDD that I tried to wiggle in there, but I can't seem to get it in. Is there an intended way to get the SATA drives in? It seems very difficult to get them to slot in just right. 

In the BIOS, there is a fan control option, but its to enable or disable fan control. I've looked in the BIOS but can't find any options for fan control. Are you able to control the fans in the BIOS? If not its no big deal, but I'd like to set some custom tables so I don't have to run ClevoFanControl every time I boot into Windows.

Last thing, but I've noticed these interlaced looking lines on the 1440p display the laptop comes with, they aren't noticeable from a far, but they make the screen look super washed out. I feel like I read somewhere in the past that these 1440p screens were known to have this "issue" but I'm mostly just curious if I can fix it at all.

I remember some of those things, but don't remember clearly what I did with some of them. Here is what I remember from the P870DM3 (never had a TM).

• keyboard lighting requires Clevo Control Center (CCC) cancer software
• SATA drives are a bit tricky to line up with ports and need to use something to reach under the drive and lift up
• If I remember correctly (big if) the BIOS fan option is to enable CCC to control the fans in Windows
• There were two 1440p screen options, one better than the other (sorry, don't recall details - I had the better one)

Congratulations on purchasing the last good high performance laptop that was manufactured. The P870DM3 was the last laptop that I remember truly being fond of and didn't regret purchasing. I hope Clevo continues to offer service parts for it in case you ever need to replace something.

Looks like this might have some useful fixes.
Download AIDA64 Extreme (beta)

Version: 6.85.6329 beta (Jan 31, 2023)

Release notes:

• AVX-512 FMA units count information for AMD Zen 4
• AVX-512 FMA units count information for Intel Cannon Lake, Ice Lake, Tiger Lake, Rocket Lake, Alder Lake, Raptor Lake
• improved DDR5 SPD bank switching
• identification of DDR5-9600, DDR5-9800, DDR5-10000, DDR5-10200, DDR5-10400, DDR5-10600, DDR5-10800 memory modules, DDR5-11000, DDR5-11200, DDR5-11400, DDR5-11600, DDR5-11800, DDR5-12000 memory modules
• PCI VPD detection / improved exception handling
• motherboard specific sensor info for Asus ROG Strix Z590-A Gaming WiFi II
• motherboard specific sensor info for Gigabyte A620 Series
• motherboard specific sensor info for HP 2B5E
• fixed: supported memory types list for AMD K19.1, K19.4, K19.6, K19.7
• fixed: DIMM thermal sensor support for DDR5 memory modules
• fixed: MSI MEG Ai1000P, Ai1300P PSU sensor support
• fixed: sensor support for Aqua Computer LeakShield with FW 1019
• fixed: motherboard specific sensor info for MSI MS-7D40

4 hours ago, Reciever said:

Taking advantage of Snow Week here in DFW. Time to get us some points for TeamPrema

 

With all that being said, I dont have fancy cooling, all air, so my window is open to keep the temps low. 

Any vBIOS I can flash for my EVGA RTX 3090? Non KingPin 

Nice to see you benching, Brother @Reciever. 

Since you said "not Kingpin" here is the Galax HOF 1000W 3090 vBIOS. (It also works fine on my 3090 Kingpin.) Rename a copy of the ROM to something short and sweet to make flashing easier. Also remember to backup your original vBIOS first.

GALAX.RTX3090.24576.210125 (94.02.38.00.30).zip

21 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Two different flaws. Samsung have been tight lipped about the ongoing 980 Pro problems. Not good for the sales bro Electro. More competition in the ssd sales. So, bad publicity will hamper the sales. Even at Pudgetsystems. Better be quiet as long as possible. 

Better off sticking with low cost options like Silicon Power, TeamGroup, Sabrent SSDs. The more popular Samsung gets the less quality and higher prices we see, with no meaningful benefits that I can identify.

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

From Lumi. EVGA struggle hard get enough good engineering samples of processors. They are too small. They can't compete with Asus, Msi, Gigabyte etc. Hence they have to look other places as Ebay, amazon or other places to find processors that stands out. Raptor lake is maxed out as it is. Very difficult to get good samples. And the record chips ain't from retail. Rather hand picked from Intel for the chosen one. And most of the best chips is in fact the early 13900K engineering samples before Intel's launch of Raptor lake. If you have a good 13900K sample then let it be as is. 

 

 

And same for GPU's. The best chips/cards won't go out to the customers. They will always go to the elite.

 

From what I have read... All the top cards will never reach ordinary customers/retail. Etc the older 980Ti K|ngp|n cards above 90% ASIC score stayed in house. And later spread out to the chosen one. Isn't that nice? They value you as their very important customers. And we can go on. Same for motherboard, Memory and custom firmware/software. 

I guess I never thought of it that way in terms of EVGA. Not only are they small, they are willing to break the rules and do things that Intel, NVIDIA and probably AMD do not approve of. They often make their competitors look bad and seem feckless, which probably does not win them any points among peers. My kind of company... not content with status quo and don't care about getting permission or blessings, or playing nice. I've heard rumors that their unwillingness to lock the IME and let customers downgrade or disable it in the BIOS is a no-no that Intel does not approve of. The other OEMs follow the rules on IME. I'm glad EVGA does not. One of the first things I do on my Dark mobos is disable IME. It's adds no value and is utterly worthless on consumer motherboards.

3 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I think the ? is because your gpu driver is is not verified, or some bs like that. I couldn't upload one yesterday, because of the same error you were getting. I think UL adds the ?, so the bot thinks its an invalid URL.

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

 If the driver wasn't verified he wouldn't get the green Valid stamp🙂 Then you have the messed up software from UL/Futuremark, so....

Yes, that is correct. Brother @Papusan is right.

Even if the driver was not "approved" by UL (only meaning they actually tested the version) it would still be acceptable by HWBOT rules. There are no restrictions on drivers that are allowed with HWBOT. You can use any driver you wish as long as the results do not produce unrealistic benchmark scores that suggest that cheats were used. They can spot scores that are out of scope with an expected range of results because it tends to stick out like a sore thumb. That said, it is not a common scenario that any official driver version affects performance to a degree that the change in scores are freakishly out of line with the applied cooling and clock speeds. If anything, the scores will usually go down with a buggy driver, not up.

General Rules | HWBOT

The more common scenario is bugs and glitches in the benchmark software that produce abnormally high results, not the driver. If they spot glitched benchmark submissions where the score is freakishly high for the clock speeds shown in the required screenshots and validation links, they will disqualify and delete those submissions.

In fact, there is some controversy of this nature relating to disabling memory ECC on 4090 GPUs. @Papusanand @johnksssand others have recently had their 4090 benchmark submissions arbitrarily deleted. In my opinion, this is being driven by golden boys having an issue with scores that are similar, higher or uncomfortably close to their 4090 submissions. They do not like it when peasants steal their thunder. For the first time, probably ever, I think the golden boys find themselves without any "secret weapons" and subject to the instability of the silicon lottery where GPUs are concerned and reacting to competition they are not used to having. With EVGA out of the GPU arms race, the level of mediocrity and loss of focus at the OEM level has never been greater. EVGA is not there to challenge NVIDIA's control freak nonsense and push the envelope anymore.

I also believe that is why CENS was so eager to get his hands on the abnormally good CPU that @tps3443had. I am sure he was worried it would end up in the hands of a competitive peasant and that would be a threat. I really doubt he "needed" it for himself. He can get high quality silicon like that through special channels exclusively available to the golden boys that are chosen and predestined to stay on top of the leaderboards. They also get access to carefully selected and modified components and firmware that is not available to us pions.

7 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Isn't 18+4 GPU/VRAM design one of the cheapo power delivery design out there for all better tier 4090 SKUs bro Fox? Can it be made even cheaper?  But if the brand name is Galax... Everything is allowed. Even use cheapest solutions to power the card. Nice. Just nice

To be clear, 18+4 is just ordinary gamerboy grade, not top shelf .

19 minutes ago, Reciever said:

Bingo, I think I saved it as PNG, I'll re-save as JPG and reupload

 

Nope, same thing.

 

Just now, Papusan said:

Try remove that... ?

 

As etc this

 

Or your https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/88251389

Brother @Papusanhas a sharp eye. The question mark at the end is the issue.

21 minutes ago, Reciever said:

Bingo, I think I saved it as PNG, I'll re-save as JPG and reupload

 

Nope, same thing.

 

It can be either one (PNG or JPG) as long as the file size is not too large. I think it is 2MB or something like that. You will know because it won't allow you to upload a screenshot if the file is too large.

14 minutes ago, Reciever said:

I cant seem to get any submissions in, keeps saying I need a verification link? I assume its this? 

 

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/88251389?

 

 

I think I did everything correctly, turns out Im probably a bit of an idiot, who knew? 

Yes, that is correct. You only need to copy and paste that URL into the space for a validation link and include that with the JPG of the screenshot.

49 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Wonderful being in the Red camp. Someone that remembers all the talk and bragging about offering more up to date drivers than nvidia? 

 

 The last graphics driver that was actually released for the RDNA 2-based Radeon RX 6000 series graphics cards was the 22.11.12 which was made for a November release. Then, AMD's Radeon RX 7900 graphics cards launched in December, and guess what? All four graphics drivers, 2 in December and two in January (2023) have been exclusive to the RDNA 3 architecture. These are the driver releases over the past two months:

 

https://wccftech.com/amd-has-not-released-a-new-radeon-driver-for-rdna-2-radeon-rx-6000-gpus-in-2-months/

 

 

 

Drivers have always been an area of opportunity for them. There have been periods of progress, but very inconsistent.

1 hour ago, ryan said:

and @Mr. Fox brother I'll try that right now see if I cant get within chips reach of 9200 gpu, next step is to test more drivers. and I actually just got eso and it helped by about 100 points. so I was thrilled with that, I think im going to keep windows defender unless it nets a big difference. im thinking drivers now

Be sure that whatever driver you choose to use NVCleanStall to remove all of the worthless trash (GeFarts Experience, etc.) and do the MSI tweaks and driver signing. You only want the driver, PhysX and NVIDIA Control Panel. Everything else is a worthless performance-killer. Do not install the driver in the format that you download from NVIDIA. It will contain bloat and telemetry that hurt performance and offer nothing but stupid gimmicks as payment for allowing the data collection.

59 minutes ago, Papusan said:

I don’t think Nvidia offer higher than 1.100V for 4090. It max out at that voltage. Binned within range of that max voltage. And the high memory temps for some Liquid X cards. Too big variance in build quality. Desktop hardware follows what you get with modern laptop junk nowadays. The trend is here to stay. Awesome is dead!

Probably not. Only EVGA and Galax have been able to skirt their stupid low voltage pansy-boy controls. That's why I recommended trying the Galax 666W vBIOS and Galax Xtreme Tuner software. There may be some low hanging fruit there. Only way to know for sure is try it. Probably not, but still worth trying to find out. Getting it up to even a wimpy 1.125-1.175V could help a lot. I have been taking my 3090 KPE up to like 1.450V without issue. The Suprim is built well enough to handle that I think.

Some of those benchmarks I posted last night were also with a +1650 memory offset and +200 core offset. Thermals are the only thing supressing the core clock/boost. Without the chiller, the memory temps are pushing 80°C and with the chiller they were half that.

44 minutes ago, ryan said:

I'm trying to break 9000 gpu score with my 3060. And what seems Neverending is the tweaks trials and errors. I got 8 points to go. And no clue as to what to do as the score fluctuates 20 up 20 down with no changes. I really do respect you guys and envy your patience...I'm maxed out and feel like smashing my turdbook..I'm sooo close to selling it and getting a desktop

Use the script to permanently remove Windows Defender. Use ESO to kill all unnecessary processes (including NVIDIA Control Panel). Open the benchmark, then use Task Manager to kill explorer.exe and then click the button to start the benchmark. When the run is complete, hit Ctrl+Alt+Del and start Task Manager. Launch explorer.exe from Task Manager. Save your screenshot. That will likely give you the few extra points you need to breach 9K.

Edit: I see you made it but didn't see your post. Try the above instructions and you might go even higher.

13 minutes ago, ryan said:

oh and good news. I finally managed to top 9000. took what felt like forever. I should have bought a legion 5 as stock its 115w 3060 gets 9500-9600 in timespy. quite a bit faster than my omen 16

 

 

was a bit weird getting 9(666) score out of the first of many trys and finally breaking 9k with something like 9666

23 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Yep, the small boost in Vcore definitely pushed it past 3100 same settings in TS with capped at 544w pull. Wondering if a flash to a 600w Vbios would kick it up a notch even further.

 

I plan on running those same settings and doing some WoW FP runs to see if CPU utilization bounces even more off of 100% than it does now along with any gains in fps.

 

~62c on mem with +1500 OC after TS run.

 

Gotta say I'm overall happy with my Newegg model. Makes you wonder what it would do under a true block and/or chiller.

Awesome stuff. Yeah, might try that Galax 666W vBIOS and see if it gooses the voltage a little more than 50mV. I doubt you are going to exhaust the power limits with such low voltage.

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Using the beta version, even though the slider will go to +100 still caps at 1.1 as @papu indicated.

 

Using exact same settings, clocks boosted up to 3135mhz. Board power increased to ~540w. Temps are still in the 50's.

 

Cool. It sounds like it was a small addition of voltage, but actually enough to make an improvement.

You might try the Galax, Zotac and ASUS GPU tuning software to see if it will give you the full 100mV. I would even try Precision X1 to see if it is compatible and what it can do for 4090. Never hurts to try.

What are your memory temps looking like? I saw a video that showed the Suprim X Liquid memory temps were high because of the memory chips relying on tabs sticking out from the water block cold plate. They changed to ThermalRight high thermal conductivity thermal pads and shaved about 10°C off of the memory temps. They also moved from 1.0mm to 1.5mm pads (yes, thicker) for the memory ICs. Using thicker pads helped the memory but did not hurt core temps.

This is also a good teardown video. The overall build of this GPU is impressive. Some very heavy duty stuff under that aluminum shroud.

In case anyone has experienced the same log-in failures I have at HWBOT Community, this might be useful.

 New login procedure for HWBOT Forum

26 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Nice results bro Fox 🙂

Thank you. It's getting more difficult to enjoy the sport for reasons such as what you mentioned (quoted below).

26 minutes ago, Papusan said:

But is this below tempting? At least 2500$ for 10% more cuda cores and same amount vrm(slightly faster variant) as the 1600$ 4090 FE. Same Board power is just the icing on the cake.

Tempting if you are a silly person. We often lean in the direction of silly when it comes to the strange compulsion to be on top when, at the end of the day, being a winner gets you nothing but a thinner wallet. Unless you are among the chosen elite that get cherry-picked products for free to facilitate marketing propaganda, then it's someone else's wallet.

45 minutes ago, ryan said:

is it collective though? like is it from a highest score or from the total times benchmarked like a certain amount of points each time..

 

It says your 1st out of 4? core i9 rank is what out of 4 people like it doesnt say much.

 

and if it is what it is. then sponsorship must be close

The 3rd place out of 1426 submissions regardless of core count is certainly more meaningful than the hardware specific results. As people lose interest in benching--partly due to garbage tech, partly due to consumer ignorance, partly due to rigged scenarios with sponsors providing cherry-picked parts to chosen subjects and leaderboard politics--placement on the leaderboard is rapidly losing significance. It's a dying sport because of shifting priorities and probably the need for deliberate stealthy grooming of public opinion to distract consumers from the degradation of performance that goes with that territory. Thin, light, low-power have been made popular with a self-adoring population that excludes differing priorities.

It is also worth mentioning that in most CPU and many memory-intensive workloads, Windows 7 steals the show. Windows 8.X, 10 and 11 are harmful to CPU performance. It is very difficult to match physics performance tests like those in 3DMark 11, Sky Diver, wPrime and Cinebench if you are competing against Windows 7 running a newer OS. In spite of the rhetoric about Windows 11 alleged thread scheduling superiority, it's not enough to close the gap. I do not think it is a coincidence that UL/3DMark is categorizing benchmarks like 3DMark 11 and Sky Diver as obsolete/no longer supported. It's because newer OSes can't compete when CPU performance is important to the outcome. It is not because they are no longer relevant from a graphics performance perspective because lots of modern games still use DX11, and lots of people still enjoy older games that use DX11 (and DX9, DX10 for that matter). So, it's ludicrous to take the position that it is not relevant. It's also an interesting "coincidence" that Cinebench R23 was deliberately/conveniently made to not run on Windows 7. 

35 minutes ago, aldarxt said:

True, True, True and we have to recognize China is trying to be the World Domineering Power and alot of the Rhetoric and misinfo in our world is being Fed by them to Destroy U.S.A.'s Dominance.

Exactly that, put to music. The lyrics describe this problem, and others.

12 minutes ago, ryan said:

im new to cpu benchmarking, but doesnt that say you are number 3 in the world>? if so. impressive

 

what does it mean? number 1 with 3dmark 11? or 1st with 13900k

Look closely at the screenshot from HWBOT with the ranking. There is a ranking for same CPU and a ranking for core count, and a third ranking for all CPUs. Same logic applies to GPUs. 

Just now, aldarxt said:

I've heard it said "A Cure for Cancer would Destroy the Economy"

The way that big pharma has been propped up it would definitely hurt the economy from their perspective. Same can be said of many diseases that they don't want to be cured. The goal of big pharma is not public health and well-being, but long-term dependency on the potions and placebos they provide. I am not anti medicine by any means, but I am anti big pharma and big tech and big government.

On 1/27/2023 at 1:21 AM, Etern4l said:

MrT in the US wasn't very different: tax cuts + big infrastructure projects, instead of tightening things up and reigning borrowing in. 

I don't know what kind of dishonest nonsense the mainstream media vomits into the zombie sheeple feeding trough in the UK and EU, but if it remotely resembles the disinformation and leftist propaganda they bombard the public with here, it is nothing short of phenomenal. The current POTUS administration has caused severe damage to the US and Canadian economies on an order of magnitude that dwarfss the greatest presidential leadership failures in decades. This loser's reign of failure and domestic terror comes on the heels of the most successful administration by every legitimate measurement during my lifetime. You'd never know it by watching the "news" though, because they are compulsive liars that control the narrative, manipulate and distort facts and blatantly misrepresent information to push their insane agenda. He could have invented a cure for cancer and they would have hated him for it and called him every name under the sun rather than admit he did something good and right.

3DMark 11 Physics Score https://hwbot.org/submission/5187366 | https://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/15562679

https://hwbot.org/submission/5187340 | https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/88212231

GPU Score: https://hwbot.org/submission/5187355 | https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/88212231