Mr. Fox

14 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Apex Z790 vs Kingpin Z790:

 

 

I don't think he knows what he is talking about. Lack of experience with EVGA as a company and their excellent support, and lack of experience with how to get the right results with the EVGA firmware are pretty evident. If you learn how to use it, I think it is better. What I think he is right about though, is a noob that doesn't know what they are doing should not buy a EVGA Dark motherboard. It is not designed with gaming as a focus. It is not built for weekend warrior nonsense like TVB overclocking or applying an XMP profile and calling it good. It is built for overclocking and manual tuning. Period. They won't be happy because it works different than an ASUS mobo and they won't get any help figuring out what they need to do differently to get the results they are looking for.

The real problem with ASUS is QC, reliability and truly horrible anti-customer warranty support. Their community is nice, but it doesn't do jack when the part fails and ASUS treats you like crap. It seems evident to me that they don't care about the people that buy their products. Their behavior leaves room for no other conclusion.

While excusing themselves from GPU sales rather than kneel to NVIDIA may ultimately hurt EVGA in the long run, I respect them immensely for refusing to become a boot-licker. That might not keep them in business, but I wish more AIB GPU partners would take their approach and either tell NVIDIA to take a hike, or join force to form a mutiny, ignore NVIDIA and do things the right way. They won't though. They're too busy kissing booty with the Jolly Green Giant and the Redmond Reprobates to do the right thing.

3 hours ago, ryan said:

is there a big difference between windows 10 and a startallisback with windows 11? isn't windows 10 still functioning, or are you guys still using windows 7?

 

my favorite was windows 95, hated everything up till windows 7. windows 10 was ok, windows 11 doesn't make sense neither did windows 8.1

It really boils down to what you are willing to put up with. Seeing how you spent so much time and effort to get higher benchmark scores, I can pretty much guarantee you that installing Windows 11 is not going to help you accomplish that. By default, it will take you in the extact opposite direction.

If you want to just install the OS and use it and don't care about the intent behind the design of it, and you're just going to play games and use it, and don't care about getting the best benchmark scores, then it is really nothing more than an extra-ugly reskinned version of Windows 10 with added telemetry, extra bloat and a default GUI that is less functional. The worst part of it is how insanely ugly and dumbed-down it is by default. I won't use it that way. It's absolutely disgusting.

All that said, if you actually want to tweak the snot out of it, enjoy breaking things on purpose, and enjoy spending the time and effort needed you can make it perform pretty much the same as Windows 10. This is where I am on the spectrum. I want to break things in Windows 11, and I want to do things with it that the idiots that made it do not approve of. 

I know the Redmond Rugrats are never going to do what is best for anyone except for themselves. They do not care about doing the right thing. They do not care about user privacy, and they could not care any less what users want or don't want in the OS. So, I am also concurrently focusing on making Linux a replacement for Windows so that when it gets to the point that I am done with their nonsense I am prepared to live life without  Micro$lop feces. They are not deserving of any form of acknowledgement, respect or consideration, so we should give them any.

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

While it won't fix the underlying issues with the OS in general, StartAllBack will fix the most troubling (disgusting) aesthetic aspects of the atrociously ugly GUI. You can use the script to remove/destroy Defender AV as well, and that help fix some things.

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Sadly, nothing can help make Win 11 to be a better option than older Windows versions. Put lipstick on this new buggy and tablet OS don’t make it any better. 

Right. You can't truly fix everything that is wrong with it. You are merely treating symptoms and not curing the disease. All you can do is make it less disgusting visually and less inefficient to navigate. You can remove or disable some things, but it's still going to ultimately be the same botched up and bloated cancer OS under the hood.

In additional to removing Defender AV, there are dozens of worthless services that can be removed, or disabled if the idea of actually physically deleting Services scares you. And, you can remove garbage like the free M$ Office, OneNote, OneDrive, Teams and Edge browser using Revo Uninstaller Pro. You can also disable Micro$lop Updates. A side benefit to removing Defender AV is that it often seems to break cumulative update packages. They will try to install and fail, so that is a good enough reason all by itself.

If you want to update the OS you can always download the ISO from Micro$lop and do an in-place upgrade, but then you have to go back and redo a lot of what you spent time tweaking. But, you won't have to reinstall most software applications. An in-place upgrade usually requires reinstalling StartAllBack and redoing the tweaks.

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

Finally put in the HOF in the Black Box. Will be more like Black&White now😎 Could have been a better oc'r but memory at least above 1500 and cores above 300. And it seems I have to make a Win 11 install for this fancy card. This new modern OS will only used for benching... I just can't use it 24/7. Still no time for the small screen for the graphics card. I just hooked it up to the PSU shroud. So no time for fiddling with new bloatware, LOOL

 

The card is very stiff and solid. So you really don’t need to use the silver shining sagging bracket you can see in front of the pump. 

Nice scores. Looks like a very good GPU, as it should be for the price. Probably best to use anti-sag bracket anyway as you have, just to keep stress of the weight off of the PCIe slot even though sagging is not an issue with the stiff GPU. 

4 hours ago, Raiderman said:

Ive yet to install that garbage, I'll probably VM it first to see how ridiculous it is. Luckily there are ways of changing the gui to something that resembles a functional OS.

While it won't fix the underlying issues with the OS in general, StartAllBack will fix the most troubling (disgusting) aesthetic aspects of the atrociously ugly GUI. You can use the script to remove/destroy Defender AV as well, and that help fix some things.

On 2/26/2023 at 4:23 PM, Hertzian56 said:

oof and they tell us mindless stereotypes are only on one side, apparently not.

Right? Personality, political correctness and optics over constitution, freedom, sound policy, national security and prosperity. It's scary how the wacky nutjobs have come out of the woodwork in the past two years. What an absolute mess. Not my circus, not my monkey. If they get away with election fraud during the next election cycle for a third time, it is going to be very bad. If they don't get away with it, it's still going to be very bad. They'll be equally crazy and intolerant no matter who gets elected if it is not another totalitarian lefty.

1 hour ago, Tenoroon said:

Yeah, it was connected. 

I finally found some MXM pinout schematics and a 2 hour long tutorial of how to diagnose a GPU that isn't detected whatsoever. I've got a decent magnifying tool and plan on checking everything after school tomorrow. While I don't have the resources or tools to fix it, I'll feel at peace if I can figure out why it's not letting the computer POST.

From the little testing I've done, Clevo's MXM pinout is identical (or at least very similar) to the MXM 3.0 Standard pinout. I really hope Clevo's isn't much different as I remember to use the 10x+ series cards in other laptops, you had to do some funky stuff with the pins. I'll dig on the old archive and look at your tutorial to see what pins Khenglish modified and see what those exact pins are linked up to on the MXM standard.

Lot's of problem solving; it's annoying, but it's fun.

The pinout is the same, but they use some typically unused pins for adding power rails that the MXM standard does not use.

19 hours ago, Tenoroon said:

Put the 2080 Super in my P870 and no POST at all. The laptop would try to turn on but failed every time. There's no power going to the card as the core and VRAM don't get warm. I oughtta probe this thing a bit more and see if I can find something weird.

Here's two videos: (I've never uploaded to Youtube and don't know why the top video came out as a short and I'm too lazy to fix it.)

I could not tell from the video because I could not see the entire GPU. You do have the auxiliary power cord connected at the top edge of the GPU, correct? It cannot function without it.

21 hours ago, Raiderman said:

Thais why I haven't seen any, they are Intel boards. I know EVGA makes a two slot X570 chipset board. Haven't checked in a while, but last I looked, still no X670's.

It is not clear if they will release an X670. They are usually late to the party, so they might. I've not heard or read anything suggesting they will. But, I do not think the X570 Dark was as successful as they had hoped, and if memory serves me correctly it was their first ever AMD board. By the time they made it to market most of the people that were going to go with an X570 platform had already bought something else. Rumor also has it that they had some trouble getting AMD to approve of the BIOS being done in the typical EVGA extreme performance focused kind of way, and we see how that turned out with NVIDIA's control freak approach to things. (EVGA ended the relationship rather than submitting to NVIDIA's demands.)

The ASUS Crosshair X570 firmware was a totally botched up mess because of AMD insisting that ASUS inject their dumbed-down firmware options. ASUS mingled that "approved" mess with the way the firmware should have been, and that made for a very clumsy UEFI environment, with conflicting and incompatible options.

19 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

You should easily be able to run 5600 with 64GB of ram on a desktop. That seems crazy right?

Four sticks of DDR4 overclocked poorly compared with two sticks and that problem is even worse with DDR5. Best configuration for memory overclocking is two modules and a two-slot motherboard.

7 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

PTM7950, i.e. the "Honeywell" industrial-grade phase-change TIM. It's been incredible for me so far (almost 2 weeks, which is a period during which most other top pastes significantly degraded or failed on my system).

Nice. You are using it on your GPU? Temps are the same or better than something like KPX or Kryosnaut? Did you have to order the PTM7950 from China, or did you find a "normal" channel to purchase?

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

LOL, what a mess.. Psst... P...T...M...7.... 

OK. I have to ask... PTM7? I know that as a Weller soldering iron tip, but I suspect that is not what you are referring to based on the ellipis between the digits.

I've never heard of this before. Have you guys? https://www.basemark.com/benchmarks/gpuscore/relic-of-life/

3090 KPE Stock

4090 Stock

Bright Memory: Infinite RTX Benchmark

3090 KPE Stock

4090 Stock

3 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Didn't @Talon get a  Strix 4090 that could hit +2000 on the mem?

I do not remember. He may have.

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

Remember vram in same way as ssd nand don't like the cold. Opimal temps should be around 60-65C. See how the vram perfom cold vs warmer. 

Temps are in that range. The memory ran 10-15°C warmer on the Liquid X because the cooling of the memory was passive rather than active.

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

This doesn't cover everything bro Fox. This... Apply them all. None of the AIC partners put much work into binning or be sure they use the best parts for their flagship/enthusiast products. If they did.... You would never see this below from their enthusiast product. And they all do the same thing... Put all works into the estetic and design. Make a very good cooler can hide away the worst silicon quality. 

 

Hopefully they will give me a refund and I can either buy nothing or just get the cheapest 4090 available. Based on most of the information available, the standard $1500-1600 4090 Zotac, MSI Trio and PNY options are so close in performance to the most expensive options available, and maximum overclock limits are within such a small margin that it makes no sense to spend more for something better that isn't actually better. I doubt the chilled water cooling would change anything for the better on the memory. The Strix actually runs cooler on the memory than the Liquid X did. (The Liquid X AIO cooling is only useful on the core. The memory and hotspot temps were higher due to the flawed AIO design. This is also true of memory temperatures on other GPUs that use an AIO due to flawed AIO design in general, not an MSI flaw.)

The only likely benefit of the chilled water would be higher boost clock due to lower core temperature.

Edit: Looks like poor memory overclocking is an inherent shortcoming for the Strix 4090. I don't know if it is a coincidence or a design flaw on the part of ASUS. 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-geforce-rtx-4090-strix-oc/41.html

45 minutes ago, Tenoroon said:

That blows, I haven't been too happy with ASUS lately either. My G14 is a pain in the butt to work on, and recently, my father's GL553's SATA connector just upped and died so he can only use the M.2 SATA slot from now on. 

While I don't like the idea of killing GPUs, I understand your frustration very much. I wish you the best in finding that it "suddenly stopped working" one day 😉

I have been in contact with NewEgg. They offered to exchange it, or request an exception for a refund from the warehouse. I will find out on Monday if they will make the exception and offer a refund. I hope they will allow a refund, but if not I will exchange it and pray that the replacement is as good or better than the Suprim X. Either way, I think I am done for good with ASUS. I have said this before and I need to stop making exceptions and giving them second chances. The only products they make that I haven't had issues with are the budget and mid-range motherboards. All of their top shelf products have turned out to be garbage in my experience.

I believe one of the memory chips is defective, but I cannot test GDDR6X with MATS to confirm that. I can pass Unigine Superposition at +1350 on memory. If I set it to +1375 it black screens and will not run +1350 again unless I disable ECC.

1 hour ago, cylix said:

@Mr. Fox i am sorry to hear you got a dud of strix, this show again how Asus dont give a damn about customers anymore, no chip selection or binning , only put that name label  on it an sell it for ++profits.

And on another note, sry if im ignorant or sound like but how come you cannot return it? Here in EU we have the right as a customer to return whatever we want for whatever the reason for 14 days after purchase. How can some shops in the US forbid the return and they can get away with it.

EU and other countries have stricter rules for some things like this. I can exchange it within 30 days, but I am not guaranteed a refund, thus I asked for an exception. At this point I think I would be better off with a refund, because the replacement might not be any better and my preference would be to not have another ASUS video card. If I can get a refund, I am not sure if I will replace it or just keep using my old GPUs. I'm not enjoying any of this right now. If I do get a refund and replace it, I will try to get another Suprim X (non-liquid, as I did not like the AIO and would plan on blocking it anyway).

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

I was hoping it was a monster sample or at least reached the levels of your Suprim 4090. Hows the coil whine on it? I'm always curious.

None that I can detect.

I am praying it dies very soon and has to be replaced, and that the replacement won't be worse. I am going to run the dog crap out of it to see if I can kill it. I've never hoped a piece of hardware I purchased would die under warranty, but ASUS needs to stop selling broken trash. This is NOT an enthusiast product. It's another pile of crap they sell to enthusiasts like everything else they sell to them. They need to get out of the business if this is an example of their top shelf feces. It was super stupid of me to expect anything different from their loser organization.

On 2/13/2023 at 5:01 PM, Mr. Fox said:

It's going to be interesting to find out how high this sucker will clock on a chilled water block. Getting "hot" it's still averaging 3126MHz on core, LOL. I am going to have to try more than +1600 on memory, too. Maybe it will do +1700 or more.

 

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/89118436

 

^^^Better product^^^

19 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Well, so far, so good. I just installed it a few minutes ago. Memory issues ruled out (job #1) from what I can see. Don't know how far the OC will go on core or memory yet. Hoping a Corsair GPU block will be enroute soon. Haven't peeled any of the plastic off yet.

 

The only thing I am puzzled about is the OC vBIOS still allows the fans to turn off at idle. So, I am manually setting them because I do not want the fans to ever turn off for any reason. Things get warm at idle without fans running, and I don't need silence.

 

I spoke too soon. Crappy silicon for an extra $200. Thanks, ASUS. Should have waited for another Suprim X. I hope it dies under warranty so I can try my luck in the silicon lottery over again. Memory maxes out between +1350 and +1400. Suprim X had no issues with +1600.  I can't match any of my Suprim X 3DMark scores, so it is as worthless to me as tits on a boar.

Left a pretty ugly 3-egg review for ASUS. My fault for choosing ASUS... again. 

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

That is such a nice GPU! These cards are actually obtainable now! It is tempting. I think if I did buy one, I would maybe grab an FE right on Nvidia.com for $1,599. What made you decide to get a Strix 4090 instead of the other models?

Thank you. It is a nice GPU, but I actually think the Suprim is nicer looking. My preference was the Suprim, but Amazon could not exchange the one that failed (no stock). It really sucks because the one that died was a superior silicon sample. Core and memory both overclocked really well. I think better than this Strix, but I haven't spent enough time with the Strix yet to know for certain. Now that I wasted $200 extra on the Strix, the Suprim is available at NewEgg. The best 4090 GPUs are Galax HOF, Suprim, Strix and FE (in that exact order). Everything else has weaker power delivery and compromises. The Zotac AMP AIRO is actually really decent, but anything else is underbuilt and probably isn't suitable for severe overclocking.

Here is the info: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1461611-rtx-4090-vrm-meta-analysis-and-feaib-comparison/

Well, so far, so good. I just installed it a few minutes ago. Memory issues ruled out (job #1) from what I can see. Don't know how far the OC will go on core or memory yet. Hoping a Corsair GPU block will be enroute soon. Haven't peeled any of the plastic off yet.

The only thing I am puzzled about is the OC vBIOS still allows the fans to turn off at idle. So, I am manually setting them because I do not want the fans to ever turn off for any reason. Things get warm at idle without fans running, and I don't need silence.

23 minutes ago, Steerpike said:

We can agree that they are incompetent, missing the boat, losing business; but to suggest they have motivations other than profit just doesn't make sense. 

When the motivation make money to the exclusion of doing what is best and right for the people they collect that money from becomes evident, I think it is appropriate to regard that behavior as evil, wicked, self-serving and a totalitarian approach to business. Maybe some will disagree, and that's fine. I appreciate not having to deal with idiotic woke censorship in this pure tech forum. The world around us is crumbling because of it. I'm not concerned about people looking for reason to claim offense to word choices they don't like or other forms of virtue signaling and left-leaning political correctness. That's just what they do.

16 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I wish It was a penguin chiller I had instead, which I may go that route. Those are setup like window A/C units. You put it in your window, and install the 1” to 1/4” brass adapters and you are good to go. All of the heat, and even half of the noise go outside of the home. 
 

 

I have considered running a duct right off of my coil and out of the window or even cut a whole in the floor and install a new vent just for hot air to go in to the crawl space. But, it wouldn’t be very pretty. 

That would be really nice, but a window-mounted chiller would not work for me. It would be perfect it if would. My office window is designed in a way it would not work. I would have to replace the window with a different type. Plus, it is visible from the street and my HOA would go berserk and fine me if I had something visible from the street like that. Since you are kind of out in the boondocks, you probably don't have to care about an HOA or obey special rules like that.

@tps3443we should start using high output pumps like these (which is what @johnksssis using last time I saw his setup) instead of weak computer pumps. The cheapest one is about 4 or 5 times more volume than a D5 pump. https://www.penguinchillers.com/product/danner-water-pumps/

These Penguin chillers are really nice and would be a good way to go. It is not as big as I thought. Maybe I could fit one in my office window and hide it behind a shrubbery.

https://www.penguinchillers.com/

I am not sure how Brother @tps3443does his, but I have Koolance QDC filling that allow me to disconnect the radiator and route the water through the chiller only and all three D5 pumps, simply bypassing the radiator. It can be changed in a matter of about 5 or 10 seconds.

edit

11 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I don’t use a radiator. Chiller only. Daily water temp is always set to 15C for 24/7/365 year round usage. 
 

Power usage isn’t even that high on the chiller honestly. When it first powers on, it may hit 340 watts for a split second. The power meter barely registers it on screen, and then it settles down to 220 watt sustained while it runs. I know guys with water cooling loops that put out more power running (50+) fans LOL.

There you go ^^^ We replied at exactly the same time, LOL.

I do not run my chiller all of the time because it is too hot in my office already, even with my central AC running 24/7. The chiller is always connected and adds additional water capacity (very beneficial) but I only turn the chiller on when benching. Otherwise the heat is unbearable. When my thermostat is set to 70°F my office is usually 75°F and the rest of the house is chilly. If the chiller is running, it heats my office up to 80°F or higher during the summer.

20 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Get out lol 

What's the wattage of your chiller? 2kW or something? What's the coolant temp? 

If you bypass the radiator it will get the water at or below 0°C if you wait long enough. The radiator being in the loop actually "heats" the chilled water.

@Papusanhere is your new target for a fellow 4090 HOF owner. I am sure Rauf will appreciate it when the Snowman takes his gold. Especially since you paid for your stuff with your own money.

https://community.hwbot.org/topic/223660-rauf-geforce-rtx-4090-34951515mhz-21825-marks-3dmark-time-spy-extreme/

1 hour ago, ryan said:

I guess so yeah I thought you guys were saying the 4090 laptop was a joke because its bga and therefore a waste of money. but hey happens.

 

I think its a great deal if you keep it for 5 years, otherwise its a easy pass. as for the small desktop not good you need space

It is a joke, but we moved on past that.
Yeah, click that link and you'll see what scam we are talking about. Total ripoff. 14:27

1 hour ago, ryan said:

damn. I noticed your core clock stays steady...might seem rook but how did you do that? do you need a special vbios

No, you need a desktop that doesn't get hotter by the second while you are using it.

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

nvidia joking with their customers. I expect people accept being scammed...  14:27

1 hour ago, ryan said:

oh you 2

 

@tps3443 was just saying its a good deal performance wise....can you build me a 3090ti desktop screen and all for 2800? probably not and if it has a 1440p screen id be suprised...but hey you guys are the experts and im following suite

I think you misunderstood what we were talking about. We were not talking about that Clevo from Cyberpower that @tps3443mentioned.

Besides that garbage MSI desktop joke, I was commenting about the scam in the video. See the link 14:27

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Alienware have got competition. Who offer the best build quality...

That is truly horrible. Straight out of the Alienware playbook:

• Beyond absurdly insane overpricing
• Extremely ugly aesthetically
• Tacky gimmicks (the stupid touch panel)
• Compromised components
• Includes proprietary garbage
• Castrated firmware

Yes, it is sad to think it could be true, there actually are people dumb enough to pay $5000 for this piece of junk. I can't decide which one is the ugliest to look at.

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Btw. This is what Nvidia offer the Laptop jockey's. New hardware features. Almost as Microsoft toying with Windows Moment", LOOL

 

RTX 4000 mobile series officially released.

Papusan replied to VEGGIM's topic in Tech News

 

nvidia joking with their customers. I expect people accept being scammed...  14:27

That truly is a scam. It will go unpuniished because there are peoplle that spend money on it. Same problem as above... ignorant consumer, dishonest tech company.