Mr. Fox

On 2/11/2023 at 4:55 PM, Mr. Fox said:

I did jump on the Disney boycott and canceled my Disney+ subscription a couple of days ago. The disgusting filth and utterly diabolical propaganda they attempt to brainwash our children with is beyond evil. 

On 2/11/2023 at 5:24 PM, ryan said:

Wait I'm subbed to Disney.. what did they do?

Injecting ludicrous nonsense like critical race theory, wokism, rainbow nazism and leftist world views into programming for young children. 

We live in a very sick, sick world and it is reaching a point of utterly diabolical absurdity... normalization of extreme stupidity and portraying corruption as being socially acceptable.

As we have already said/heard, the only NVIDIA upgrade is a 4090. 4060 will be an expensive downgrade from 3060. What a joke.

Sometimes change is not good. Sometimes saying "no" is the only correct answer. What I find most puzzling is the notion that anyone would want to deliberately reward Micro$lop's behavior when punishment and rejection and financial losses are what they deserve. Otherwise, you'll get more of the same, or worse.

Not particularly entertaining, but this guy clearly articulates the reason most Windows users would decide to make the switch. If you can listen to a very calm and dry 10-minute dialogue, I think most of us will find that his comments resonate with us. If you are ADD/ADHD like me, it's going to be hard to watch.

This should be a non-issue. If you are still using a 486 PC using an old kernel should not be the end of the world. In fact, it would probably work better on a kernel from 10 or 15 years ago. I can't imagine anyone still using such an old PC for anything other than novelty and nostalgia purposes.

7 minutes ago, ssj92 said:

 @Etern4l

What's up with the time inconsistency error? 

That is a RTC bug that occurs often with W8, W10 and W11 on older hardware. It is a Windows bug that Micro$lop has never fixed.

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I said earlier it was coming from Fontana, but it's actually Fresno. The GPU itself shipped from Fontana.

2 hours ago, johnksss said:

You said it's coming from Fontana? Is that the seller or some sort of warehouse?

11 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

Fontana, California I believe.

The water block is coming from Fresno. My GPU shipped from the MSI distributor in Fontana and I accidentally said Fontana earlier when talking about the water block. I have purchased from the eBay seller in Fresno before and he seems to sell a lot of Barrow and Bykski parts.

I am not particularly fond of the busy-looking backplate. I much prefer the plain-jane slick black aesthetic with out any kind of holes or slots cut outs and just the tiny Alphacool logo that the Eisenblock would have provided. I said earlier it was coming from Fontana, but it's actually Fresno. The GPU itself shipped from Fontana.

I don't know if it will come with a black or silver backplate. The eBay listing did not specify that.

4 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

Picked up a new WD Black 1TB nvme....seems pretty freaken fast 🙂

 

Yeah, that's really crazy fast.

6 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, benching should be for fun. Not points. And the ranking have been screwed up many years, so....

In some ways it was more fun when I was benching and didn't even know about HWBOT. I didn't have to worry about special screenshots and a list of do's and don'ts, or legalistic nonsense. If anyone didn't like what I posted they could kiss my hind end... didn't care whether they liked it or not. That's one reason I like running game benchmarks.

Just now, Papusan said:

Yep, I know. But it will come a flood of them and they will stay there until one report them or the mode team catch it. The ranking and points will never be correct as it is now with the ECC mess.

I bet they go in the order of ranking and the "golden boys" will be the last to gets theirs deleted, or they will conveniently get overlooked in the purging process.

It's going to be interesting to find out how high this sucker will clock on a chilled water block. Getting "hot" it's still averaging 3126MHz on core, LOL. I am going to have to try more than +1600 on memory, too. Maybe it will do +1700 or more.

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/89118436

46 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

of curse it will ECC is additional processing layer which defeats the whole premises of running a bench,
for other application it is critical when its reliable stability they are after for implementing ECC on a server not for benching bleeding edge performance,

 

lets call a spade a spade the developers made a booboo and the only way to ensure result is to enable ECC so they can get a readout they can reliably analyze, in simple word their bench software cant keep up, is that a fair assumption? 

Sounds about right to me. It's just like the stupid Benchmate thing. Add a bunch of extra crap that creates system overhead and slows things down just to try and stop cheaters from cheating. It's ridiculous. Expecting people to self-moderate their benchmark scores is also kind of unrealistic. Where do you start splitting hairs on what is acceptable versus unacceptable? I mean, you can have a bugged out score that is inflated a little bit and hard for anyone to tell if it is accurate or not, and then you have those where it is totally obvious that it is not accurate.

49 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I'm really liking this GPU. I still hate how overpriced it is, but dang... nice overclocking device.

 But, I do remember one of the reasons I have never like AIO coolers. Those stinking hoses really suck compared to a custom loop. Very limiting on where you can put the radiator. My case is too huge for it to reach the front panel, so I temporarily removed one of the 200MM fans and mounted this to the roof of my case to help exhaust the hot air. I hope to have a block on it in the next 24-48 hours.

I never knew they had a thread for this because I don't spend much time crawling through threads at HWBOT Forum. I cross-posted in the thread designed for it.

https://community.hwbot.org/topic/203413-if-you-want-your-score-to-be-deleted-ask-here/?do=findComment&comment=636481

I'm really liking this GPU. I still hate how overpriced it is, but dang... nice overclocking device.

I found there is like a dead spot of instability between about 3020MHz and 3060. If I set an overclock in that range it bugs out, but if I push past it to like 3105 or 3120MHz it doesn't crash the benchmark. 

7 minutes ago, johnksss said:

Below means it's enabled right? 23.5GB. Above means ECC is off 24.5GB

2 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, ECC Enabled eats some of the vram. 
 

A typo above. Write on a phone. 

Evidently a driver glitch. Maybe a TDR error tripped it off or something. See what I posted below.

This one is valid.

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/89116421 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5201316_

1 hour ago, johnksss said:

So that's with ECC off right?

No, but it is probably a bugged run. I ran one right behind it that was just a few points less than your last submission. I forgot to take a screenshot with NVCP open so I am trying to get another buggy run with the screenshot showing it enabled.

Edit: I think what might be happening is ECC enabled sometimes glitches and disables itself.

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/89115387

So, I ordered a Barrow GPU block. I was going to wait for a Alphacool Eisblock Aurora, but found a thread on Reddit where someone that had one discovered there are two VRM chips that have no cooling (totally bare). The cold plate totally missed them. They even took a picture showing it with the block installed, and that's a definite way to end up with a dead GPU. Most likely the issue is they used the MSI Trio as the basis for the block design. It has the same PCB as the Suprim, but it does not have any VRM components there, just empty solder pads where they would be on a Suprim.

Then, the Bykski block for one of the 4090 models doesn't allow proper seating of the 12VHPWR cable because it presses on the tab for the latch and keeps it from latching. You'd have to carve a notch into the acrylic to create clearance for the tab in order to fix it.

I am not going to spend $350 on an EKWB or Phanteks GPU block, so that leaves Corsair and Barrow. It's coming from Fontana, CA so I might have it tomorrow or Wednesday.

https://www.reddit.com/r/watercooling/comments/y3pizh/rtx_4090_block_compatibility_spreadsheet/

@Papusancongrats on the Galax HOF 4090. It should be a really great overclocker. Hopefully, it's performance will be more than enough to cause you to forget about the silly color choice and its hideous aesthetic qualities. Maybe at least one company will make a GPU block for it, so that might fix that issue for you. The PCB will still be white, but that would fix the other aesthetic issues.

1 hour ago, ryan said:

but i have to ask did you guys just move away from laptops because its all bga now?

What Brothers@johnksssand@Papusansaid. Laptops just aren't worth the money, hassles and headaches at this point. Trying to make them less trashy garbage is a waste of time and energy... totally futile. The only thing that makes a modern turdbook better than a smartphone is having a larger screen and keyboard/mouse.

4 hours ago, Talon said:

Honeywell PTM pad works fantastic for direct die application. I’ve been using it on my Omen 16 for over a year and temps haven’t gotten worse a single bit. Core to core temp differentials are tight and it provided for me near LM results with no risk. 
 

I also put it on an AMD 6750XT and had huge temp improvements there as well. 
 

They do NOT work well on desktop CPUs. My hypothesis is that the IHS does not get hot enough to “melt” the phase change thermal pad. Where direct die gets hot and will melt it. This melting is necessary as initial temps will be terrible! When you first install it expect horrible near thermal shut down temps. This is completely normal as the pad is thick and needs thermal cycles to

Melt and meet optimal thickness. This can take 20 minutes of load/cooling, a few hours or a day to reach full potential. I’ve found a couple hours and it will be a max potential. It will never need to do this again, only on initial application. 

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Many thanks for those insights. I can tell I will have a ton of fun with this stuff lol. So what happens when the pad melts, I presume the excess is permanently squeezed out of the contact area? It would follow that unlike graphite pads, this one is not reusable. 

46 minutes ago, cylix said:

Thx for the info, yes the pads are made for industrial use and in the car industry where they need to last long without any maintenance so its very useful to put it on and forget about it, should last the whole life cycle of the notebook.

I have a hunch that these are the pads that Alienware used on the stock heat sinks back in the day. They worked well and were very durable. But, you could not remove and remount the heat sink or it would destroy the original phase change pad. I suspect that would hold true here as well. If you ever needed to take it apart, you would need to remove the old pad and replace it.

15 minutes ago, johnksss said:

Looking good, Brother John. Now we're back on topic again, too. 👍

Have you found a Windows 7 driver mod for 4090 yet? I've searched high and low, and found nothing. I spent about a half day yesterday trying to mod one myself. I finally tweaked things enough to get the driver to install normally and without error (a DCH driver) but when I reboot the GPU is code 43. There has to be a way to do it, I just haven't figured out what the Green Goblin and the Redmond Retards did to interfere with the functionality... yet.

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

though i don't have @Reciever responsibilities and only been here for a short while thus far,
i too find @ryan personality amusing and very friendly, i can tell he has a lot to learn, but i think his heart is in the right place, at some point in our early days we were all eager to learn everything yesterday, we had little more time to "get polished" i believe he will matures with time and figure out the lines to adhere sooner than later 😉

Forum moderation is difficult. I did it for a good while at the old NBR and got to the point where I had enough.

The reach of this community is global, and that makes moderation even harder. He is from Canada, I am from the Desert Southwest. We have cultural differences even within our own states and provinces, yet South American, European, UK, Asian, African, Bavarian, Slavic, etc. cultural influences add complexity to relationships. People from every region and continent are represented here.

Words that can seem harmless to one can be very negative to others. For example, in the Deep South the expression "well, bless their heart" is often used. To someone that is not local it may sound like a pleasant expression of positive thought, kindness or compassion for adverse circumstances, and logically so. It would be in most places. But, those that live in the Deep South utilize it as a very condescending insult that is tantamount to saying that a person is as dumb as a box of rocks.

Profanity is a universally recognized phenomenon that has no positive association in any culture and it is not necessary for communication; although the gravity of utilizing it in conversation it can vary widely from one person, or culture, to the next.

Brother @ryanis a wonderful person and I am glad he is part of our community. We are better because of his being here.

I have had to adjust my communication style and refrain from speaking freely, even though sometimes it takes all the effort I can muster to say nothing. While it might not seem like it to some, there are many things I would like to say that I do not because it might spark strife or controversy. I like everyone that is part of this community in spite of where we may have differing views. I am a lot older than he is and have had more time to practice. 

There are also generational, cultural and familial values differences that come into play among all of us. My kids say things today as adults that would have gotten them a hard spanking or their mouth washed out with soap, but to their generation they are just sassy, smartalek words and not highly offensive and destructive words that you would only use in a contemptuous and hateful way. Sadly, that can cloud good judgment and lower social standards because it doesn't respect the power of the tongue. Fortunately, they are smart enough to recognize that they have to consider their audience and temper their language in a manner that doesn't convey a different message than what they intend.

Here is a passage (Matthew 15:18) from The Message (an amplified Bible translation) that I think really nails it. It is not the actual words themselves, but the intent behind them and the condition of the heart and mind as you are speaking them, that makes them problematic.

Jesus replied, “You, too? Are you being willfully stupid? Don’t you know that anything that is swallowed works its way through the intestines and is finally defecated? But what comes out of the mouth gets its start in the heart. It’s from the heart that we vomit up evil arguments, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, lies, and cussing. That’s what pollutes. Eating or not eating certain foods, washing or not washing your hands—that’s neither here nor there.”

2 hours ago, ryan said:

I didnt actually know this but I assumed swearing was due to lack of a vocabulary as commonly known... but alot of studies indicate the opposite here something grabbed right from google headlines

 

People assumed that choosing to use swearwords meant you were too dumb to think of different, better, or more polite words. But. Newer research (from 2015) shows that someone using expletives has nothing to do with a lack of overall vocabulary.

 

people with a higher vocabulary tend to swear more often according to reports

I am not sure how reliable that data is. It may not be reflective of intelligence or mastery of vocabulary as much as just being a rude, crass and uncouth or unprincipled person that lacks self-discipline. A creative use of vocabulary has potential to be far more accurate and even hurtful when the tongue is wielded as a weapon without the use of vulgar words.

Example:

"Ricky is a dumbass." or "What I find most amazing is the fact I cannot recall having ever met a person more lacking in common sense and basic human intelligence than Ricky." The former might be nothing but a reaction to an isolated circumstance or a basis for disagreement with Ricky. The latter is a emotionless statement that describes Ricky's ineptness and defects as a human being. The latter is far more hurtful to Ricky than random use of a vulgar word. If your intent is to hurt Ricky's feelings, calling him a dumbass isn't going to do much. It just makes you look like a jerk. (Hopefully, nobody here is named Ricky. I just chose that name because I don't know anyone by that name.)

1 hour ago, ryan said:

ok its football time.....does anyone know of a free streaming site with or without ads...i really really wanna watch it it would mean alot to me

Fox Sports - you can stream it on PC or smart TV.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl-2023-super-bowl-lvii

8 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

That sounds great. Just to confirm - the method is: 1) delid 2) LM on die 3) LM on the IHS (can be an IHS from a different LGA1700 CPU). I guess I will burn some time and money trying to procrastinate and on this, then get started. This would solve the cooling, if not open up some OC potential.

One more noob Q: why would I bother looking for another IHS to use after delidding? Isn't the CPU warranty voided and CPU split open, so any future owners of the CPU would just have to accept this, or is it possible to reassemble a delidded CPU with the original IHS (for resale for instance)? Not clear why though. If a CPU is successfully delided, it has more value in a sense as it will run cooler? 

Yes, you have the correct methodology. As for the noob question, it really only matters to someone that might want to buy it later. When you are attempting to sell it, it is helpful  that anyone can see in the photo what they are buying. It can also help with identifying any spare parts you have in an inventory or stash if you can tell what it is without having to label it or put it into a system to identify what it is. These are the reasons I like having the original marking legible. It is otherwise totally irrelevant, and the performance improvement is more valuable.

There are some people that are truly weirdos and care about the markings more than they care about performance. They are also often the type that want to keep the original decals and tags on products they buy. I have known a lot of people that want to keep original decals on things that are old, worn-out and curling on the edges. By the time that has happened, removing the decals is actually aesthetically detrimental because the color of the surface under the decal no longer matches the adjacent surfaces that were not covered by the decal.

As a general rule, a delidded used CPU should be worth more to someone that knows enough to value it as an enhancement. You are correct that the warranty is voided by the delid. If you buy a tray (OEM) CPU that is not a boxed retail product, it has no warranty from Intel. So, there is no warranty to void unless the place that sold it to you offers a warranty.

13 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Great tips as always! BTW What the bottom line delidding result for you again? AFAIR you weren't too impressed with the 12900KS initially? Then again, 13900K is a different beast (needs 50W more power for me). Did you delid the 13900K too?

Yes. I actually got good results from a delid on both. I had truly lousy results bare die with the Supercool 12th Gen kit (which has been redesigned). What I ended up having to do on the 12900K to get good results is sand down the bottom of the IHS. Apparently there was enough of a lip to make an air gap where the solder used to be. @tps3443actually suggested that. When I started checking closer why nothing was helping, I found that the IHS would not "spin" on the die because it was dragging on the PCB. Once I sanded it down enough that the IHS was resting on the die instead of contacting the PCB, the temps instantly fell in line. I did not have to do that with the 13900K. In both cases about 10°-12°C improvement from delid.

13 minutes ago, ryan said:

yeah I guess. I don't typically swear, but when I do its usually just in the context of the words they used. if something says sposting and im defending someone ill reference the word sposting. but I don't get why after 1.5k posts this is even an issue. how many of us are bothered by the odd euphemism or slang word?

I find it offensive when people use profanity in casual conversation, and it causes me to think negative things about them as a person. I know lots of people that use the "s" and "f" words in general conversation and they always strike me as being a bit dumb and not having a good command of the English language, even though some are very intelligent. At the very least, it conveys a sense that they are lacking common courtesy and professionalism. When someone is angry, upset or physically injured, I do not find it so offensive because the fact that they do not normally use that type of language lets me know that something unfortunate has occurred and the vulgar expression is helping them cope with the physical or emotional trauma of the situation.