Mr. Fox

22 minutes ago, ryan said:

if you own or want a 4090 what are you aiming for? 1440p? 4k?

benching... only

I don't need one for anything else other than beating my best 3090 scores. For gaming, I don't even need the 3090. I am content with the gaming performance of the 3060 Ti at this time.

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

Yep, even with a bigger chassis as the big hype... 17,3 now 18" chassis size they couldn't offer a increase in power. And bigger cooling cost money. This is intended... They want you back in the stores fast as hell when next gen crippled models is out. The more castrated... The easyer is it to push you over on next gen Jokebooks. 

 

It is a mistake to judge a book (or a notebook) by its cover. Small size usually means compromise and diminished capacity. Being big on the outside does not mean big on the inside, or big performance. If the guts are no better than the small turdbook it is going to run like a small turdbook. It is more than probable that the extra size will include wasted/unused space to accommodate a larger screen and keyboard, but not a more robuse motherboard or an excellent cooling system.

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

 

We live in sad times when excellence is at most relative and at worst just mediocrity pretending to be excellence. Clevo is doing it with even less shame than others with the X370 and with them I find it to be the most disappointing. I am pretty certain they will suffer for having done that as top of the line Clevos were all socketed for several generations.

 

All laptops should ship with a protective skin like this one by default. It applies universally.

27 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

 

The revolutionary part is that today more than ever mediocrity can be sold as superiority. This takes on an Orwellian quality as of late with zero progress or regression being sold to the customer as some stupendous improvement.

 

I guess that all major laptop manufacturers except for Clevo have the advantage of having stopped really powerful designs years ago so now they can celebrate mediocrity as something to be applauded as they had these in between years that were even worse.

 

MSI is as guilty as any company as it is beyond silly to sell the exact same power envelope as last year as revolutionary. They did not even bother to go with a small increase to let's say 260 or 275W as I can only assume that manufacturers have formed some secret cartel of mediocrity whereby no manufacturer is advertising more than 250W combined for CPU and GPU so that they can all continue to offer their thin and light "behemoths" as the gullible call them.

 

The result is that now we have 18" screen laptops with a chassis that has less volume than former 15.6" workstations.

As it looks like the exception is the Alienware 18m which seems to be bigger but with its own strange shortcomings despite its weight and dimensions.

100%... Well said, Brother. Yup, each will rise to their own level of incompetence. There is not a single shred of awesome or excellent to be found.

10 minutes ago, Papusan said:

@Mr. Fox What is revolutionary with a power delivery system that can deliver up to 250W combined power in laptops? This is even less than what the single 980 laptop graphics card from 2015 consume by its own when oc'd. 

 

MSI's New Gaming and Creator Laptops: A Quantum Leap in Performance and Aesthetics
https://www.notebookcheck.com/Die-neuen-Gaming-und-Creator-Laptops-von-MSI-Ein-Quantensprung-in-Leistung-und-AEsthetik.688417.0.html

 

MSI OverBoost Ultra technology in the Titan GT77 HX is a revolutionary power delivery system that can provide up to 250W of combined CPU and GPU power for unhindered gaming and productivity on the go.

 

 

The part that is revolutionary is the widespread celebration of lameness and mediocrity. All they need to do is say it is special for the sheeple to get excited. It doesn't matter that it is a lie because its success is derived exclusively from the ignorance of consumers.

My friends are mostly here. I have never met most of them/you. My friends that are not here are those that I like to be around when I have the luxury of choosing who I want to be around.

11 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

@Mr. Fox I wonder if #9 on the boot enjoying my new Gold equal as me

If you mean this... Probably not very much.

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

If price was no object, this would be a clear pick. $800? Yikes.... (Sounds ironic after picking up a Suprim X 4090...I know).

It is ironic, especially in light of the asinine 4090 prices, and particularly so considering how severely they are crippled by the NVIDIOTS; whereas the Dark is the extreme antithesis of crippled.

3 minutes ago, ryan said:

holy smokes i havent got the patience. a part of me wants 9500 a parts like whats the point.

 

i wont do reg tweaks. bad exeriences

If you do the wrong reg tweaks that can happen. I don't think I could function without them. Some of those tweaks, and some you already have applied,  you can use software like what you're already doing, only using a GUI, but many are registry tweaks.

1 hour ago, ryan said:

lol you guys are funny and die hards// I will maybe repaste and call it a day im not flipping it upside down and on a air conditioner...with the AC I was thinking a compact laptop cooler/ac unit you never know it might exist in korea or japan

No need to turn it upside down. I never did. Just set it directly over the AC vents (assuming you have a unit with vents blowing air vertically instead of horizontally) and use it as you normally would. This will blast freezing cold air into the laptop at probably 10 times the velocity and 200 times the volume than the laptop fans can do maxed out. 

A 10,000 BTU can keep a 10x10 ft room colder than most people find comfortable. So, imagine how well it can cool less than one cubic liter of laptop.

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

AC or even Chiller on the loop for a desktop would be awesome boost solution,
for laptops this seems too cumbersome over placing it flat open or 45 degrees upside down in the freezer for benching proposes, AC can move air fast but its not cold enough for a good "cold buffer" for a short bench run, for long duration stress that would be awesome and way more practical then a freezer 😄 

You wouldn't say that if you have actually done it. The air coming out of the vents on a good AC unit can actually cause frost and ice formation on the inside of the laptop. It doesn't have time to mix with the warm air in a room with the bottom of the laptop sitting directly on top of the vents and it can be below freezing point. When I was still benching laptops with mobile Extreme CPUs and desktop CPUs in them it would transform a 100°C throttled piece of doggy poop into something special and keep it well below normal idle temperatures with the CPU under full load. As a bonus, it keeps everything else freezing cold, too. PCH, SSDs, CPU, GPU, VRMs... the whole shebang stays frosty. Using a freezer can also work, but you have to keep lots of air moving through the radiators to stay ahead of the curve. The portable AC unit can move far more air (CFM) than chintzy laptop fans.

@ryanis in Canada, so he should have ample cold air right now. 

Portable AC unit is the only good way to keep a laptop cold enough for benching. I learned that from Brother @johnksssa long time ago. You place the intake vents on the bottom of it (or remove the bottom cover) directly over the AC unit with high velocity freezing cold air being force-fed into the chassis and out the radiators. You can use it year 'round and keep your office cool in the summertime. Only recently did popular guys like JayzTwoCents start using it for desktops, but it works good for a desktop as well. Just make a duct to force the cold air through the radiators or CPU/GPU air coolers and you'll see results you never dreamed possible using ambient air or ambient water cooling.

25 minutes ago, ryan said:

i ran msi afterburner and monitored tgp it was a constant 115w

 

this is why i am frustrated

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-RTX-3060-Mobile-GPU-Benchmarks-and-Specs.497453.0.html

 

scroll down to timespy and look at top scores .. a 115w 3060 scores 9500 stock

 

 

and to passerbys

 

the reason for all of this is so I can push my system to the llimits but more importantly get over 60fps in crysis remasted while running and shooting ect basically always above 60fps maxed with raytracing set to performance in 1080p....heres an example

 

 

screens dont show it but trust me its 63 in game running
 

 

Maybe HP forgot to pay the kickback to UL/Futuremark to include your hardware ID in the SystemInfo scan so it doesn't produce fake scores like the OEMs that remembered to send a check to UL.

On 1/31/2023 at 11:20 PM, Mr. Fox said:

Looks like this might have some useful fixes.
Download AIDA64 Extreme (beta)

Version: 6.85.6329 beta (Jan 31, 2023)

Release notes:

• AVX-512 FMA units count information for AMD Zen 4
• AVX-512 FMA units count information for Intel Cannon Lake, Ice Lake, Tiger Lake, Rocket Lake, Alder Lake, Raptor Lake
• improved DDR5 SPD bank switching
• identification of DDR5-9600, DDR5-9800, DDR5-10000, DDR5-10200, DDR5-10400, DDR5-10600, DDR5-10800 memory modules, DDR5-11000, DDR5-11200, DDR5-11400, DDR5-11600, DDR5-11800, DDR5-12000 memory modules
• PCI VPD detection / improved exception handling
• motherboard specific sensor info for Asus ROG Strix Z590-A Gaming WiFi II
• motherboard specific sensor info for Gigabyte A620 Series
• motherboard specific sensor info for HP 2B5E
• fixed: supported memory types list for AMD K19.1, K19.4, K19.6, K19.7
• fixed: DIMM thermal sensor support for DDR5 memory modules
• fixed: MSI MEG Ai1000P, Ai1300P PSU sensor support
• fixed: sensor support for Aqua Computer LeakShield with FW 1019
• fixed: motherboard specific sensor info for MSI MS-7D40

I posted this on Tuesday. I have had no more issues with DDR5 DIMM temperature sensors randomly disappearing from OSD or Sensor Panel on either desktop since updating to version 6.85.6329.

The 4090 Suprim shipped from MSI in Fontana, CA this morning and was scheduled to arrive Monday. I am going to be out of town until Thursday evening, so I had the carrier change the delivery date to Friday. If the sample is a good one and I don't need to RMA it due to crappy silicon quality, I will order an Alphacool Eisblock Aurora waterblock for it next weekend.

45 minutes ago, Papusan said:

It may happen that we will land there... UL/Futuremark have the bad habit destroying own products (add in more and more monitoring/and other tasks in their system info software that will steal/eat even more clock cycles). And thats bad news for laptop benchers with already destroyed hardware from the OEMs, HaHa

UL/Futuremark: Bloatimus Maximus

3DMark has aged like fine milk. 

8 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

first score on the list i posted earlier shows first position (same link @Mr. Fox posted above) is held by a dell model, no way its the full 3060 130w sku! (if it was Asus or MSI yes its possible, with Dell never)

Also look at the CPU clock, CPU temperature and CPU score on that run. Apples to oranges comparison. Everything is colder and clocked higher.

6 minutes ago, ryan said:

its a 100w 3060 i think those are 130w

Also running artificially cold it looks like, and a fairly hefty OC for 3060 notebook.

Average temperature during the run at 46°C is going to boost higher than stock cooling.

https://www.3dmark.com/spy/34499294

No coincidence... they're all Blue, too. This video is more than a year old and they are even worse now.

The classic definition of insanity applies here.

43 minutes ago, ryan said:

why doesnt someone invent a air conditioner laptop cooling pad/unit...or does that exist

I've done that for years. Long before JayzTwoCents had even heard of such a thing. Works great for desktops, too. I recorded this video and uploaded it to YouTube in 2012.

2 minutes ago, ryan said:

your telling me. I did 2 all nighters to find the cause of low performance and now that story is I wasted alot of time and \i need a new vbios if i want to progress

You're doing something with your laptop that it was never designed for. Do you know how your benchmark scores compare to the same or like configurations? If you are ahead of the pack, you may have reached Nirvana and don't know it.

12 minutes ago, Reciever said:

meanwhile I cant seem to crack 2100Mhz for an active clock during benchmarks, keeps going back to 2085Mhz on the rtx 3090

That is a thermal throttle. It is designed to do that so nothing is wrong. (Thanks, NVIDIA.)

I have the same issue on the 3090 Kingpin. Only way around it for me is to run the water chiller without the radiator and give it about 30 minutes to run with the computer turned off so the water can get down to 0°C or colder. As soon as the water gets higher than about 10°C it starts losing clock speeds. Under normal thermal operating conditions, what starts off as 2235 or 2250 on core ends up landing around 2160 or 2175 average clock.

4 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Yeah, even the 3-way adapters are not great. I replaced mine with an original Corsair cable - so much nicer and more compact.

That is exactly why I have not made up my mind yet. I intend to avoid using that tacky 4:1 pigtail. That is such an ugly low-cost solution.

2 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

1200W, oh ye Mighty Bro Fox? This is just for the shunt-modded GPU, right? 😉

Probably so, but the shunt-modded 3060 Ti does not need anywhere near 1200W. I think it could replace the 1600W on the benching rig and 1200W would be ample for the 4090 and 13900K. It has native ATX 3.0 and PCI-e 5.0 support that is ideal for the 4090, but the PSU itself would be better suited to the Corsair 5000D Airflow chassis that the 3060 Ti is in. It will fit better and address the lack of room in the basement of the case with the new cable orientation. 

What I will probably do is temporarily install the 4090 in my work computer with the PSU permanently installed for the PSU review, then after the review, put the 3060 Ti back in the work computer and put the 4090 in my benching rig that has the 1600W PSU. I have tons of unused space in the gigantic Level 20 XT aquarium, so I do not need the space-saving feature of this new PSU design in that chassis. If that's what I do, I will order a Cablemods 12VHPWR cable to replace the three 6+2 power cables feeding the 3090 KPE. I really despise those stupid short pigtail adapters that come with 4090 GPUs. Those are so stinking idiotic.

This came today. Will investigate the pros and cons after the 4090 arrives (hopefully the end of next week).

Kind of sucks that I received an Amazon notification to preorder a Zotac 4090 AMP Extreme today for $100 less than the Suprim Liquid X. I almost ordered it and canceled the Suprim, but decided not to complicate things to save $100. But, I wanted the AMP more from the start. Seems like out of all the better 4090 models the AMP owners have less to gripe about overall... but, that's an anecdotal observation based on the idiosyncracies of the internet that nobody should rely on.

1 hour ago, Reciever said:

So for some reason both of the Vega's dont like working anymore, going to try DDU in a bit and try again. They work fine until about 15-20 seconds and then the system crashes as a whole. I have a suspicion its Windows update doing what ever the hell it wants and crashing my system since the interval feels fixed.

 

The 3090 with the Galax vBIOS doesnt seem to pull more than 450w still, confirmed the vBIOS power limits in GPU-Z but I suppose I didnt try Furmark yet. I did score about 400 points higher iirc before I went to sleep last night but figured there was more in the tank so I didnt make any submissions.

 

Around 800 points in a couple of days, was hoping to take back the #33 position for the team but I may run out of hardware before that lol

I can vaguely remember hearing there were issues with the most current Catalyst drivers. Have you tried more than one driver version? The power limit can be as high at 1000W (Galax vBIOS) but you will be limited by voltage, so the power utilization won't go any higher that the corresponding available voltage allows. The problem might be the overclock is just too high for the available voltage. Not sure since I don't know all the details, just sharing my thoughts on possibilities.

41 minutes ago, ryan said:

anywho.

 

did you manage to get your 4090 @Mr. Fox

Should be here next Friday. It was a pre-order on Amazon and has not shipped yet.

37 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Look at this old beauty bro Fox. The Caselabs chassis lacks modern connections in the front (due the old model design solutions), and I have the Corsair 1000D. But very tempting. Not everyday I see the old big glory is on the used market here home in Norway. Can't rembeber last time I have seen one.  6500 Nok = $647.31 

 

Review... https://www.xtremerigs.net/2013/01/31/caselabs-sth10/

Those old gigantic Caselab cases are amazing. I always wanted one, but didn't want to pay the price needed to buy one.