Mr. Fox

3 minutes ago, ryan said:

holy smokes i havent got the patience. a part of me wants 9500 a parts like whats the point.

 

i wont do reg tweaks. bad exeriences

If you do the wrong reg tweaks that can happen. I don't think I could function without them. Some of those tweaks, and some you already have applied,  you can use software like what you're already doing, only using a GUI, but many are registry tweaks.

1 hour ago, ryan said:

lol you guys are funny and die hards// I will maybe repaste and call it a day im not flipping it upside down and on a air conditioner...with the AC I was thinking a compact laptop cooler/ac unit you never know it might exist in korea or japan

No need to turn it upside down. I never did. Just set it directly over the AC vents (assuming you have a unit with vents blowing air vertically instead of horizontally) and use it as you normally would. This will blast freezing cold air into the laptop at probably 10 times the velocity and 200 times the volume than the laptop fans can do maxed out. 

A 10,000 BTU can keep a 10x10 ft room colder than most people find comfortable. So, imagine how well it can cool less than one cubic liter of laptop.

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

AC or even Chiller on the loop for a desktop would be awesome boost solution,
for laptops this seems too cumbersome over placing it flat open or 45 degrees upside down in the freezer for benching proposes, AC can move air fast but its not cold enough for a good "cold buffer" for a short bench run, for long duration stress that would be awesome and way more practical then a freezer 😄 

You wouldn't say that if you have actually done it. The air coming out of the vents on a good AC unit can actually cause frost and ice formation on the inside of the laptop. It doesn't have time to mix with the warm air in a room with the bottom of the laptop sitting directly on top of the vents and it can be below freezing point. When I was still benching laptops with mobile Extreme CPUs and desktop CPUs in them it would transform a 100°C throttled piece of doggy poop into something special and keep it well below normal idle temperatures with the CPU under full load. As a bonus, it keeps everything else freezing cold, too. PCH, SSDs, CPU, GPU, VRMs... the whole shebang stays frosty. Using a freezer can also work, but you have to keep lots of air moving through the radiators to stay ahead of the curve. The portable AC unit can move far more air (CFM) than chintzy laptop fans.

@ryanis in Canada, so he should have ample cold air right now. 

Portable AC unit is the only good way to keep a laptop cold enough for benching. I learned that from Brother @johnksssa long time ago. You place the intake vents on the bottom of it (or remove the bottom cover) directly over the AC unit with high velocity freezing cold air being force-fed into the chassis and out the radiators. You can use it year 'round and keep your office cool in the summertime. Only recently did popular guys like JayzTwoCents start using it for desktops, but it works good for a desktop as well. Just make a duct to force the cold air through the radiators or CPU/GPU air coolers and you'll see results you never dreamed possible using ambient air or ambient water cooling.

25 minutes ago, ryan said:

i ran msi afterburner and monitored tgp it was a constant 115w

 

this is why i am frustrated

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-RTX-3060-Mobile-GPU-Benchmarks-and-Specs.497453.0.html

 

scroll down to timespy and look at top scores .. a 115w 3060 scores 9500 stock

 

 

and to passerbys

 

the reason for all of this is so I can push my system to the llimits but more importantly get over 60fps in crysis remasted while running and shooting ect basically always above 60fps maxed with raytracing set to performance in 1080p....heres an example

 

 

screens dont show it but trust me its 63 in game running
 

 

Maybe HP forgot to pay the kickback to UL/Futuremark to include your hardware ID in the SystemInfo scan so it doesn't produce fake scores like the OEMs that remembered to send a check to UL.

On 1/31/2023 at 11:20 PM, Mr. Fox said:

Looks like this might have some useful fixes.
Download AIDA64 Extreme (beta)

Version: 6.85.6329 beta (Jan 31, 2023)

Release notes:

• AVX-512 FMA units count information for AMD Zen 4
• AVX-512 FMA units count information for Intel Cannon Lake, Ice Lake, Tiger Lake, Rocket Lake, Alder Lake, Raptor Lake
• improved DDR5 SPD bank switching
• identification of DDR5-9600, DDR5-9800, DDR5-10000, DDR5-10200, DDR5-10400, DDR5-10600, DDR5-10800 memory modules, DDR5-11000, DDR5-11200, DDR5-11400, DDR5-11600, DDR5-11800, DDR5-12000 memory modules
• PCI VPD detection / improved exception handling
• motherboard specific sensor info for Asus ROG Strix Z590-A Gaming WiFi II
• motherboard specific sensor info for Gigabyte A620 Series
• motherboard specific sensor info for HP 2B5E
• fixed: supported memory types list for AMD K19.1, K19.4, K19.6, K19.7
• fixed: DIMM thermal sensor support for DDR5 memory modules
• fixed: MSI MEG Ai1000P, Ai1300P PSU sensor support
• fixed: sensor support for Aqua Computer LeakShield with FW 1019
• fixed: motherboard specific sensor info for MSI MS-7D40

I posted this on Tuesday. I have had no more issues with DDR5 DIMM temperature sensors randomly disappearing from OSD or Sensor Panel on either desktop since updating to version 6.85.6329.

The 4090 Suprim shipped from MSI in Fontana, CA this morning and was scheduled to arrive Monday. I am going to be out of town until Thursday evening, so I had the carrier change the delivery date to Friday. If the sample is a good one and I don't need to RMA it due to crappy silicon quality, I will order an Alphacool Eisblock Aurora waterblock for it next weekend.

45 minutes ago, Papusan said:

It may happen that we will land there... UL/Futuremark have the bad habit destroying own products (add in more and more monitoring/and other tasks in their system info software that will steal/eat even more clock cycles). And thats bad news for laptop benchers with already destroyed hardware from the OEMs, HaHa

UL/Futuremark: Bloatimus Maximus

3DMark has aged like fine milk. 

8 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

first score on the list i posted earlier shows first position (same link @Mr. Fox posted above) is held by a dell model, no way its the full 3060 130w sku! (if it was Asus or MSI yes its possible, with Dell never)

Also look at the CPU clock, CPU temperature and CPU score on that run. Apples to oranges comparison. Everything is colder and clocked higher.

6 minutes ago, ryan said:

its a 100w 3060 i think those are 130w

Also running artificially cold it looks like, and a fairly hefty OC for 3060 notebook.

Average temperature during the run at 46°C is going to boost higher than stock cooling.

https://www.3dmark.com/spy/34499294

No coincidence... they're all Blue, too. This video is more than a year old and they are even worse now.

The classic definition of insanity applies here.

43 minutes ago, ryan said:

why doesnt someone invent a air conditioner laptop cooling pad/unit...or does that exist

I've done that for years. Long before JayzTwoCents had even heard of such a thing. Works great for desktops, too. I recorded this video and uploaded it to YouTube in 2012.

2 minutes ago, ryan said:

your telling me. I did 2 all nighters to find the cause of low performance and now that story is I wasted alot of time and \i need a new vbios if i want to progress

You're doing something with your laptop that it was never designed for. Do you know how your benchmark scores compare to the same or like configurations? If you are ahead of the pack, you may have reached Nirvana and don't know it.

12 minutes ago, Reciever said:

meanwhile I cant seem to crack 2100Mhz for an active clock during benchmarks, keeps going back to 2085Mhz on the rtx 3090

That is a thermal throttle. It is designed to do that so nothing is wrong. (Thanks, NVIDIA.)

I have the same issue on the 3090 Kingpin. Only way around it for me is to run the water chiller without the radiator and give it about 30 minutes to run with the computer turned off so the water can get down to 0°C or colder. As soon as the water gets higher than about 10°C it starts losing clock speeds. Under normal thermal operating conditions, what starts off as 2235 or 2250 on core ends up landing around 2160 or 2175 average clock.

4 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Yeah, even the 3-way adapters are not great. I replaced mine with an original Corsair cable - so much nicer and more compact.

That is exactly why I have not made up my mind yet. I intend to avoid using that tacky 4:1 pigtail. That is such an ugly low-cost solution.

2 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

1200W, oh ye Mighty Bro Fox? This is just for the shunt-modded GPU, right? 😉

Probably so, but the shunt-modded 3060 Ti does not need anywhere near 1200W. I think it could replace the 1600W on the benching rig and 1200W would be ample for the 4090 and 13900K. It has native ATX 3.0 and PCI-e 5.0 support that is ideal for the 4090, but the PSU itself would be better suited to the Corsair 5000D Airflow chassis that the 3060 Ti is in. It will fit better and address the lack of room in the basement of the case with the new cable orientation. 

What I will probably do is temporarily install the 4090 in my work computer with the PSU permanently installed for the PSU review, then after the review, put the 3060 Ti back in the work computer and put the 4090 in my benching rig that has the 1600W PSU. I have tons of unused space in the gigantic Level 20 XT aquarium, so I do not need the space-saving feature of this new PSU design in that chassis. If that's what I do, I will order a Cablemods 12VHPWR cable to replace the three 6+2 power cables feeding the 3090 KPE. I really despise those stupid short pigtail adapters that come with 4090 GPUs. Those are so stinking idiotic.

This came today. Will investigate the pros and cons after the 4090 arrives (hopefully the end of next week).

Kind of sucks that I received an Amazon notification to preorder a Zotac 4090 AMP Extreme today for $100 less than the Suprim Liquid X. I almost ordered it and canceled the Suprim, but decided not to complicate things to save $100. But, I wanted the AMP more from the start. Seems like out of all the better 4090 models the AMP owners have less to gripe about overall... but, that's an anecdotal observation based on the idiosyncracies of the internet that nobody should rely on.

1 hour ago, Reciever said:

So for some reason both of the Vega's dont like working anymore, going to try DDU in a bit and try again. They work fine until about 15-20 seconds and then the system crashes as a whole. I have a suspicion its Windows update doing what ever the hell it wants and crashing my system since the interval feels fixed.

 

The 3090 with the Galax vBIOS doesnt seem to pull more than 450w still, confirmed the vBIOS power limits in GPU-Z but I suppose I didnt try Furmark yet. I did score about 400 points higher iirc before I went to sleep last night but figured there was more in the tank so I didnt make any submissions.

 

Around 800 points in a couple of days, was hoping to take back the #33 position for the team but I may run out of hardware before that lol

I can vaguely remember hearing there were issues with the most current Catalyst drivers. Have you tried more than one driver version? The power limit can be as high at 1000W (Galax vBIOS) but you will be limited by voltage, so the power utilization won't go any higher that the corresponding available voltage allows. The problem might be the overclock is just too high for the available voltage. Not sure since I don't know all the details, just sharing my thoughts on possibilities.

41 minutes ago, ryan said:

anywho.

 

did you manage to get your 4090 @Mr. Fox

Should be here next Friday. It was a pre-order on Amazon and has not shipped yet.

37 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Look at this old beauty bro Fox. The Caselabs chassis lacks modern connections in the front (due the old model design solutions), and I have the Corsair 1000D. But very tempting. Not everyday I see the old big glory is on the used market here home in Norway. Can't rembeber last time I have seen one.  6500 Nok = $647.31 

 

Review... https://www.xtremerigs.net/2013/01/31/caselabs-sth10/

Those old gigantic Caselab cases are amazing. I always wanted one, but didn't want to pay the price needed to buy one.

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

there's another way to get a higher score, its technically legitimate test but I call it cheating,

there is one element you can change its value that will give you higher score in time spy and potentially others,

if you just looking to do it for the fun of it go for it otherwise its not a legitimate score,

 

there's precise steps you will need to take for the end result to be valid,

these settings must be applied 2 seconds before the bench starts (that is key),

this means you have to have everything ready to be applied but not applied until the right moment,

the right moment is as close as possible to when the bench itself starts, so time it beforehand,

during the test loading where its doing system info you want to apply the settings as close to when the actual bench starts, so apply 2 second before the screen flips into the bench scenery,

 

in nvidia profile inspector set "Texture Filtering - LOD Bias (DX)" value to -3
(you can also type a number not in the scope like -10)

if you did it right you will get a valid result that is way higher then you ever scored before, 

you will see the scenery will look different during the bench because the engine is not fully rendering textures beyond the level of detail (LOD) you will instruct it, 

 

don't pass this as legit bench, this is just for fun and giggles with friends,

 

 

 

 

The LOD (Level of Detail) mod that you described is actually allowed for some benchmarks and not others according to HWBOT rules. While it is an accurate measurement, it is an apples to oranges comparison to scores that did not use that tweak. It is only cheating if you try to conceal it and submit it as a score that does not identify the LOD mod. 

What I think originally started it was 3DMark 11. It is one of the most demanding CPU+GPU performance tests of all time, and it employs tesselation on an extreme level. AMD/ATi GPUs struggled to run the benchmark well unless the GPU owner went into Catalyst Contro Center and disabled tesselation. That flipped the scenario and instead of AMD GPUs losing miserably against NVIDIA they destroyed NVIDIA scores. NVIDIA did not allow the option to disable tesselation. If you disabled tesselation in CCC on an AMD/ATi card, there were actually lots of totally missing graphic elements that were empty space on the screen and everything looked horrible. The absence of having any imagery to render allowed them to fly through the benchmark. 

There was a lot of debate on HWBOT on whether or not to allow  tesellation to be disabled so fake benchmarks scores could be submitted by AMD/ATi owners. If they did not allow it, trying to police the results would have been difficult if not futile. So, the LOD mod was allowed so that NVIDIA owners could level the playing field by using a similar cheat. The LOD mod with an NVIDIA GPU did not totally eliminate graphic elements completely like disabling tesselation did with an AMD/ATi GPU, but it removed the unfair advantage allowing AMD/ATi owners to cheat.

I am not sure why they allow the LOD mod on some benchmarks but not others.

5 hours ago, Rage Set said:

As the son of a Funeral Director/Embalmer, I grew up with a different spiritual fitness than others. I am sorry for your loss but to honor her, remember the memories you've created together...keep those memories close. In time you will begin to heal. 

That experience would be an interesting one, and valuable for perspective. I know some people do not believe in an afterlife in eternity and live as if our short time on this insane planet called Earth is the end of the road. I can't imagine how exasperating and futile it would be to go through life thinking it could end at any moment. It's not how long we are here, but what we believe and how we behave that sets the stage for what follows. Once you have that sorted, there is no reason to fear what is waiting on the other side of that doorway. Unless, of course, you have chosen to believe and act in a manner that should give you good reason to fear what is waiting for you.

5 hours ago, ryan said:

As for benchmarking I have no idea how to get 9200 again. I tried almost all the drivers nvidia offers, every tweak and overclock till it artifacts. and yet nothing having a hard time cracking 9k with stable clocks. but as @MyPC8MyBrainsaid my scores are great

I understand the frustration you feel. Been there, done that. I would suggest that you consider the distinct possibility that the 9200 score you achieved once upon a time may not be accurate because benchmarks (especially 3DMark) and Windows are both buggy. So, you may be struggling to replicate a score that simply can't be replicated unless the same bug or glitch, or group of bugs, reoccurs in the exact same manner. If you keep hitting the same high score over and over again regardless of tuning and tweaks, that tells me you have achieved consistency and identified the limits of the performance capacity of your laptop. That is not a reflection on you or indicative of your skill, it's the functional limit of your machine. That is an accomplishment all by itself. Most people have no idea what the functional limit of their computer is, and don't know how to find out. If you are not satisfied with the results, then the only solution at this point is to get something better. Therein lies the danger of a passion for benching. Nothing is ever good enough. You crave more and have to feed the number-chasing monster inside of you.

8 hours ago, cylix said:

Yes, also I find a tablet also good for that purpose. I have a s7+ for work when I'm on the go and it fills the place of a notebook for what I need,  I have mobile connection on the go,  office, Dropbox and with the pen and a Bluetooth keyboard I'm fully organized. Also the dex mode from Samsung is a nice touch and very good replacement of windows style productivity.  Also is very compact and light

Definitely good for that. I have a tablet and don't use it much because I do not like touch input, but it was less than $100 brand new. The only reason I don't have one of these instead of the tablet is the horribly low screen resolution. I won't accept anything less than 1080p. My tablet is 1080p. It is slow, but has a good FHD IPS screen and was dirt cheap, exactly like it should be. I won't spend very much money on something better because it's silly to spend much money on disposable products. It makes more sense to only spend a small amount for something that sucks than spend more for something that sucks a little bit less than the cheaper option. BGA is perfect for e-waste that costs less than $200. I keep it on the end table next to my recliner for a quick web search and use it for minimizing in-flight boredom. That's about all I use it for.

Edit: I forgot... I also use it for a drink coaster. It has a vinyl cover so I don't have to worry about shorting it out if I spill liquid on it. The tablet makes and excellent drink coaster.  🤣

37 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Steve basically explaining CPU and GPU bound scenarios with data runs.

 

i3-13100 is a little powerhouse!

 

 

That is a very good video demonstration of what it means to be CPU limited. Steve really knows his stuff. There are a lot of people that do not understand that limiting the use of GPU muscle shifts the workload and causes greater load on the CPU.

11 hours ago, Reciever said:

You what would be the ultimate insult to Nvidia and all the other vendors is if EVGA continued to by other Vendors GPU's just to build their own and continue to set new records with each new generation. Probably wouldnt happen but would make for great entertainment.

I can vaguely remember that being a question that was asked when they announced they were going out of the GPU business, but I can't remember why they said no. If anyone could make AMD GPUs great it would be them and if anything were to interfere with it, probably would be AMD. Part of what made their relationship with NVIDIA rocky is EVGA not doing things the NVIDIA way, doing something better and not consulting with NVIDIA or getting their permission. EVGA made EVGA GPUs great, no thanks to NVIDIA.

I also know (heard) that one of the reasons that it took them a long time to release an X570 Dark is because they had a difficult time working with AMD. The rules AMD tried to force them to follow on the BIOS were disagreeable and EVGA wanted to do some things in the firmware that AMD didn't want them to. At one point it seemed as if they were not going to even finish the project because they could not release something that EVGA could be proud of if they followed AMD guidelines. EVGA's approach is to make default settings the right ones (like maxing out power and current limits) and then hiding them so people don't screw things up trying to follow reference specs, and I like that.

I also heard something similar about ASUS and the AMD BIOS. There are some redundant and less than useful menu items in their BIOS on AMD enthusiast motherboards only because AMD insisted, not because they actually made any sense. I really hated the ROG X570 Crosshair BIOS and found it frustrating at times. The menus that AMD required them to keep had some things that would conflict with features that ASUS added to make things work better and overall it was a confusing and sloppy mess that often produced unexpected results.

12 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

this phenomena is not going to slow down anytime soon, that's why i am leaning toward embracing the limitation and learn how to take advantage of them when needed kind of like the tai chi philosophy go with the flow not against it to harness the most power available, in the past we could throw more cooling and more tweaks but its at the point there's no way to run from it moving forward 😉 

There were a number of things about dealing with Dell/Alienware and their so-called enthusiast products that I found objectionable and insufferable, including their business philosophy and the corrupt mentality of their engineering and product development folks. They deliberately do things that make it difficult to correct their shortcomings. Combined with the unacceptable emerging trends in laptop design across the industry, I found it better and less frustrating to just wash my hands and shake the dust off my feet rather than constantly battling with abject stupidity. The difficulty dealing with idiotic design flaws always resulted in being left with products that were too compromised and ultimately incapable of ever meeting my expectations.

My view of technology in general is that it is better for the stupid people of the world to be left for dead than to hurt yourself trying to mitigate the idiotic things that they do intentionally and will continue doing in spite of your efforts to help them. If there is any truth to the unBiblical cliché that "God helps those that help themselves" tolerating their nonsense is tantamount to "casting pearls before swine." It makes more sense to just give them as much rope is it takes for them to hang themselves and then walk away and let them do it. My world is a much better place without them in it and I am happier when they are not part of it. Throwing them a lifeline makes no sense if I'm better off allowing them to drown, and jumping in to try to save them will only end up pulling me under with them.

19 hours ago, Papusan said:

Me sitting with my cigar Bro Fox, have you lost your mind?😜

 

No, but the people who are trying to kill Windows 7, and making progress in doing so, have lost their minds. They are building an army of brain-dead zombie sheeple that love licking their boots.

Linux is better than the trash they want us to use, and sometimes it is best to just rip the band-aid off. If I can force them to eat that nasty band-aid after I tear it off it will be worth it. But, if enough of us do it then we will have the pleasure of watching them slowly and painfully choke to death on dirty band-aids. It would bring me great joy to witness their death as a company. Linux would be there to pick up the pieces, so there is no real downside to be feared by the prospect of their sudden demise. That would catapult Linux from good to great in a matter of a few months, if not a few weeks. Once the smoke cleared the world would be a better place.

I've enjoyed the good life and I'm not ready to leave this floating chunk of rock, but I am not afraid of where I am going when I leave. A great place is being prepared for me. I would only be sad for those that get left behind. I won't miss them, but they will miss me. Seems like they draw the short straw.

12 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

...........and another rig will lose Windows 7🤣. I might as well get a 7900xtx

I'm still looking to replace everything Microsoft with Linux in my life. As much as I love Windows 7, I want to control my destiny and deprive the Redmomd Reprobates of the privilege of counting me among those who have bowed before their Throne of Filth and sworn allegiance to their depraved World Order. The longer I try to hold on to Windows 7 the more challenging it will be to cut my losses and rid myself of their demonic influence.

They are not as horrible as Apple. But, in at least one way they are worse than Apple. Apple has always sucked, and always will. The Redmond Reprobates know what greatness looks like, and they have deliberately chosen a path of suckiness.

Just now, ryan said:

I'm really sorry. I didn't have bad intentions but I bought a N4100 spin 311 4gb 32gb chromebook, i'm just tired of this crap. I gave in.

 

also a close friend just died at the age of 27, so sad I don't know how to feel besides depressed. RIP felicity

Hey there it is nothing wrong with a Chromebook. It's probably the only logical use of the BGA filth and it's actually appropriate for a thin and light portable device. For the price, it's hard to find fault in them. You get what you pay for, unlike the so-called gaming notebook trash that costs a lot, delivers little, and shows us all what failure on a grand scale looks like.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I hope that eternity finds her in a better place, free of sorrow and the trials we will endure in her absence.