Mr. Fox

4 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

how much of a thermal improvement do those custom RAM heatsinks provide bro fox?

Huge improvement. More than a 30% reduction in maximum temperature and enough to make the difference between passing memory stability tests and failing them. As you can see in that screenshot, I ran TestMem Pro for 1 hour (200%) and maxed out at under 35°C at 8000MHz and 1.500V on the memory. Without the waterblock temps are generally around 42°C. With your normal gamerkid RGB memory with the fancy heatsinks heating blankets I would see above 55°C at 6800 and 1.450V. Memory errors begin to occur and you start losing stability around 45°C on DDR4 and DDR5. DDR5 gets hotter and gets hotter faster because of the much higher clock speeds compared to DDR4.

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

I've been a diehard WoW player since launch and I've played since Jan 2005 so it is my mainstay and metric for performance. I've never played at less than 2560x1600 resolution even back then as my rig was an Apple Dual G5 tower w/ an Apple 30" display but as time has passed so has the increase in graphics and CPU requirements as the engine has gone through 4 major upgrades that require current content to really take advantage. The last major upgrade was the Battle for Azeroth Xpac where it got a major rewrite then Shadowlands where they added in 1st gen RT. Dragonflight extends that a bit more.

I knew that about you. Even your wife is a WoW fan if I remember correctly.  It is awesome that you've been a fan and playing since launch. I am much the same way with the Crysis Franchise.  I used to be with CoD as well, but they strayed from the path enough that I am no longer interested in the last couple of installments to the franchise.

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

On the other hand, lest we forget the 3090ti can still bring the pain....

 

I said it before and I'll say it again. If you have a 3090/3090ti the only real upgrade is a 4090.

 

 

Indeed. And, that is with the 7900 XTX core clock roughly 500 MHz higher than the 3090 Ti.

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Always hard to find real, valid WoW or FO76 testing/comparison between cards. Hardware Numb3rs seems to have gotten real spotty posting lately which was my go to for WoW benchmarks. Hopefully he gets something up sooner than later.

Is it because of the passion you have for WoW and FO76, which makes it particularly meaningful on a personal level, that you look specifically for those comparisons; or, something about those particular titles that taxes a GPU in a "Can it run Crysis?" kind of way? 

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

OK, I think I got this dialed in now for my 24/7 overclock. It's so easy to run these generic green A-die sticks at 8000 MT/s. It's ludicrous in light of how many retail kits I RMA'd with RGB rainbow vomit and sloppy loose gamerkidz XMP profiles that cost double, were pure garbage and would barely even boot at speeds like this. Consumers are getting screwed real hard.

The generic green M-die was also vastly superior to the retail craptastick options. I thought that one of my pairs of M-die was slightly better than the other (which would not be surprising) and did more testing with the 13900K back in the Strix Z690-E and they're actually extremely close to the same. I got a good deal on a 13900KF for the Strix and will be selling my nice 12900KS sample that was the same SP92 rating as the one @Papusanhas. I saw no improvement whatsoever in memory overclocking, which was the reason I bought it.

Well... as it turns out, the 6400 brick wall is actually a physical limitation of the Strix mobo. I never looked at the documentation until yesterday. And, yup... dammit... that is the highest supported RAM speed. It will boot and run (benchable) up 7200, but not stable to matter what voltage or timings I have tested. Stablity goes out the door as soon as I move from 6400 to 6600. I knew it was a gamerboy product and it is totally fine for my work computer, for sure. But, I was surprised to find 6400 is the maximum supported memory clock.

Also interesting, my 13900K SP rating is higher than I thought. When I originally tested it in the Strix mobo it was SP95. Now it is SP103 with a significant improvement on the E-cores (from 73 to 83). The 13900KF is almost identical at SP102 (both are SP113 on P-cores, with SP81 on the KF E-cores). So, that was my real Christmas present. I wondered why my 13900K seemed so good with a mediocre SP rating. Apparently the BIOS on the Strix at that time was not dialed in correctly for 13900K. It was the first BIOS version for 13th Gen when it told me my CPU was only SP95. 

OK, I think I got this dialed in now for my 24/7 overclock. It's so easy to run these generic green A-die sticks at 8000 MT/s. It's ludicrous in light of how many retail kits I RMA'd with RGB rainbow vomit and sloppy loose gamerkidz XMP profiles that cost double, were pure garbage and would barely even boot at speeds like this. Consumers are getting screwed real hard.

5 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Are people stupid bro @Ashtrix @Mr. Fox?

Yes. Yes, they are.

So are the people testing and reporting on the "progress" LOL. Plenty of Kool-Aid to go around... bottomless supply of it for the bottom feeders. Their graph shows PL1/PL2 set at 253W. Why? Maybe because they only want partial performace? Or, maybe because it lowers the bar so that Windows 10 and 11 look equal? What would the graph look like with 4095W for PL1/PL2, and why do people even care about setting power limits? The answer to that question is the same as the answer to the question you asked.

16 minutes ago, Reciever said:

Cant argue with that analysis.

Especially when it's paid for and does everything you need it to do.

"I'm going to buy a new sofa that is exactly the same color as the one I already have that's in  immaculate condition. I need it just because it's new. I will sell the old one at a loss to help cover the cost."

3 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Well yeah no way AMD is going to stand up on the podium and go, "Yeah we totally screwed the pooch on this one."

They would if they were honorable and cared what people think about them.

Oh wait... We're talking about a tech company... Nevermind.

11 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

3090 Ti isn't that much faster than 3090, yet there was a whopping price jump. This time around, the autoscalped price of the 4090 will help Nvidia launch the 4090 Ti at $2k or more. 

Just a tiny uptick, but only enough to make you realize you got screwed on the 3090, thinking you were buying the best the generation had to offer.
 

NVIDIA: "Surprise! Faked you out, stupid consumer!"

Me: "Surprise! Kiss my butt and die, Green Goblin!"

12 hours ago, electrosoft said:

So it's the actual reference VC causing the problem...

 

I'll have to re-review the WoW data we collected with the Powercolor 7900xtx. It might have been a throttling issue in there too.

 

 

I was going to share that and checked first. I just watched it and thought it was pretty interesting (and sad).

2 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

I don't think it's inflation so much as it is green. DDR ram isn't all that expensive, quality 8 and 12 core cpu's aren't too bad. SSD pricing isn't overwhelming.

After being out of pc tech for 3 years, it's motherboards and gpu's that I've seen skyrocket in cost. When I left, you could get a top of the line AMD board for under $300, now they are 3 times that.

Even Intel motherboards are grossly overpriced. Just a mid-range Strix board will set you back $400-$500 depending on which one you settle for. The only ones priced decently are the chintzy crap models for gamer-kidz that don't care about overclocking. If you want a real enthusiast motherboard, they're generally between $600 and $1100. Asus is the worst at overcharging, which is ironic since theirs are the least reliable and have horribly poor warranty service.

27 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4060 laptop graphics will take a big leap in performance over its predecessor. A wopping 20% performance boost over RTX 3060 laptop graphics. Whats the point with this upgrade if it's true? Bro @Mr. Foxdon't you have the 3060 in your Jokebook? If so, will you jump on a ADA gaming book with the 4060 refresh? 

 

 

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4060 laptop graphics card's 3DMark Time Spy benchmark score leaks online
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Nvidia-GeForce-RTX-4060-laptop-graphics-card-s-3DMark-Time-Spy-benchmark-score-leaks-online.677472.0.html

 

 

No. Half-breed is a 16GB Quadro. Wheezer was 2060.

7 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

LOL now that was a quick OC, damn. 

I haven't really even tuned them yet. Just took an educated guess at some of the settings and there it is. This is on the new EVGA 2.06 beta BIOS. I don't know if they will work this well on 2.03 or 2.05.

7 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

happy 60th soon then! got anything special planned? let us know so we can all come over for the big party 😎🥳🤠

damn dude, retiring at 70 already sounds tough, but extending that by another 5-10 years pretty much seems non-sensical. i mean, statistically speaking, we have 70 healthy years before the aching / illness / old age catches up with us... fingers crossed it wont come to that and ull be able to retire earlier than that! 🙂 

Thank you.  C'mon over. Will make some fajitas and guacamole and wash it down with Chelada.

Yeah, I am not liking that idea about retiring later. I wish I could do it now, but can't afford to. And, Brandon has already destroyed a massive chunk (2-3 years worth of retirement income) of my nest egg with his retarded economic agenda. I have lost almost as much as I made on my 401K while Mr. T was in office.

I got the generic green A-die sticks from AliExpress today.

37 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

ha, really curious if ull be able to resist that temptation until this gen is done for 😄 

Oh, I really want one, but I don't want to spend the money. I don't think they are worth the price they are fetching, and won't believe they are even if temptation overtakes me. I turn 60 in a few weeks, and Sleepy Joe is making things to where retirement may need to be extended an extra 5 or 10 years beyond my planned retirement age of 70. Unless something changes in two years and things get back on track I will have nothing left to retire with and may end up working until I die or can't anymore, so blowing $2K+ on an overpriced GPU every two years probably isn't wise for me. But, yeah... I want one.

2 hours ago, raptorddd said:

personalizing kind of silly.? i am curious what your answer would be if you were that person holding a rifle and there was a law to use lethal force.  thats what you said you are all up for lethal foce. and thats ok thats is you we all think and see different ways.

yes i am an adult now. and also know what is wrong and right. and yes doing wrong must have punishment. am all for an eye for an eye example someone kills get him killed someone rapes have him be raped. just so they feel and live the same fate as other inoocent people suffer.

but on a border to use lethal force thats too much.

am not racist either my brother married white girl. i dont care about skin color or ethnicy the only way to me disklike is how they are or if i am beign attacked.

I think we are on the same page for the most part and you read more into my comments than I intended them to convey. I can understand the sensitivity due to your heritage.  If you militarize the border and make illegal crossing nearly impossible and block it through any means necessary, including lethal force, people will stop crossing illegally because they do not want to be shot. They value their life and are not willing to risk losing it if chances are slim their illegal entry would be successful. In other words, the imminent threat and probability of it become the deterrent unless they are criminals with a death wish.

I think legal entry with approved work visas after a through background check and consent to monitoring/tracking while temporarily here for work, and those pursuing legal citizenship should be an easier process than it is. If the people are willing to work, support themselves, become literate in English, and have something to offer all who are already citizen, yes... 100%. But, not illegally.

To me it is just common sense. Gun control freaks want to outlaw firearms, and the states that are the most torn up by guns are those that have banned or restricted them. I live in an open carry state. It does not end all violence, but when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have them. If someone enters a home without permission, tries to rob a store, or anything else, it is good and just when an armed law-abiding citizen can take the life of the transgressor to preserve their own. They are heroes and should be treated as such. In many liberal states, if you defend yourself or your property using anything (sticks, rocks, knives, bats, guns, martial arts skills, etc.) and cause injury or death, you are subject to prosecution the same as if you are the instigator or perpetrator. In states that do not have such unconstitutional restrictions of personal freedom, you can legally defend yourself and stand your ground. This is a deterrent and it shows in the crime statistics. Criminals that are not stupid sometimes stop to think what might happen to them. Some are not willing to risk having their brains blown out. The stupid ones that have nothing to live for don't stop and think about anything.

@Talon  Beta BIOS Updates for Z690 DARK K|NGP|N (2.06) / CLASSIFIED (2.06)

Quote

Please note that this is a Beta BIOS, but it is stable enough for those of you who wish to test to give it a shot.  
BIOS 2.06 (E699 DARK K|NGP|N / E698 Classified)

• Fixes issue where some software may cause DIMM changed detection.
• Fixes issue where system is unable to shutdown.
• Fixes USB to SPI Flash BIOS error code E1 by EC version R104.
• Adds memory timing RCD_WR for performance tuning. 

A few bug fixes and a new memory timing..

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

I am wondering if it’s gonna be like the 12900KS. Lower SP 12900KS was actually better than higher SP 12900K. 
 

I’ll say the VID’s don’t look very good on it though compared to my SP121 P-Core. 
 

I’m sure Intel test these chips for other abilities and not just SP rating alone. They could scale really well for all we know. I know the 12900KS had a +300Mhz all core boost over the 12900K. That’s huge! But the 13900KS only has a +100Mhz boost over the 13900K. 
 

I believe they launch on January 3rd. Who’s buying one? I think they’ll be awesome because you’re guaranteed at least a better bin. And it’ll clock good enough. SP115+ P-Cores is definitely no slouch. That’s an extremely good 13900K. 

I suspect it will likely not be a straight across SP rating between K and KS. And, you are right. SP rating is not the definitive indicator of a strong CPU that overclocks well. It is a very useful tool, but it is possible to have a CPU with a lower SP rating that performs better and overclocks further than one with a higher SP rating, albeit using more voltage. 

It is not very likely that I will purchase one. I might if the price is close to the same as 13900K, but I probably would not be willing to spend much more than maybe $100 extra for it. Time will tell.

2 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

It is definitely an improvement. Average P-Core SP for 13900K was only like SP106. Now we don’t know if that 13900KS is average or maybe it’s below average. 
 

We’ll have to wait and see. But at least you are guaranteed a better chip with the 13900KS. 

Or it could be (but, hopefully not) better than average. Hopefully, it is a poor sample. A minor improvement should not result in more than a minor price increase... but, I expect we will see more than a minor premium for the "S" variant. This is probably going to suck for people that paid a premium for used 13900K CPUs with a superior bin quality.

20 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Someone has a 13900KS on overclock forums. They posted screenshots and SP ratings. 
 

The 13900KS runs 5.6Ghz all cores, and it will boost (2) cores to 6.0Ghz.

 

The chip has an overall SP rating of SP105, and a P-Core SP of 115, and a E-Core SP of SP85. 

If the results from Igor's binning are an accurate example of the norm this is an improvement. Not massive, but still better than average. That said, it would have to be or they would not be able to justify the new SKU. We also do not know if that person has a poor, average or superior 13900KS sample. If it is a poor sample, a good or great sample might be truly amazing in comparison.

I guess the price, along with all-P+E core, ring and memory overclocking capacity, will tell us whether or not it represents a good value. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out once they are widely available for purchase.

14 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

What does S in KS stand for? Silly?

Probably "scalper" if it ends up being priced as I expect it to.

20 minutes ago, Papusan said:

I hate curved screeens. I really really do. And the curved monitors with the special low but long design is awful. Have tested those in the shops. Huge nope from me. 

It took me a few days to adjust, so I understand. I did not like it at first but now I love it and wish my Predator monitor was curved. I do have them mounted on a tri-screen pedestal and raised 9 inches from my desktop surface so it is close to normal eye level. I would really hate using a monitor at a lower height and doing so would cause neck strain and fatigue. I have my 27 inch 1440p Predator monitor raised 9 inches as well. 

20 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Why non OC editions? Due the price? I like to thinker with performance, maybe not the best options for me then. And I won't save much money here home between non OC and the OC editions. 

It used to be that the OC version was actually a different GPU, but looking at the specs for most of them today it seems more like a scam, with the power limits and voltage in the firmware and hardware build seeming to be exactly the same from what I can tell. It looks like you are just paying extra for a vBIOS with maybe a 50MHz higher boost clock. There might be some OC versions with different hardware, but I have not noticed any. It's unfortunate that the OC versions do not have a 200-500MHz higher default boost clock.

This is not "fake news" no matter how you slice it. It is a live recording of direct conversation. If you don't watch the whole thing, at least listen to the first 2:48 and pay attention to what Rand is describing. It really outlines the degree to which government has become overreaching and abusive of power as it relates to the mistreatment its own citizens.

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

Got the confirmation today. The refund have come from the MSI 4090 I sent back. Sent it in 18. Dec and it took 11 days. So all good. Now the hunt is started again after a new 4090.

 

As from my post above... I have still the ASUS ROG Strix XG27AQ monitor in the package. A very good monitor from what I have seen in reviews. I have a few questions to the gamers... @Talon @electrosoft @johnksss

 

This monitor I bought is an G-sync compatible. Not a real G-sync screen with the nvidia chips. I will pair it with an 4090. Is 1440P ok to use with the card or do I need a 4K screen to have benefits from 4090? Is 4090 overkill for 1440P? I expect newer games at 1440P 3 years down the road will tax 4090 more than with todays games. 

 

I feel 1440P may be the better choice for me. And above 30" is too big. Hence the questions. 

 

If you suggest 4K screen at 27-28", what screen to buy and with come with full G-sync.

 

What 1440P 27-28" screen to select with full G-synk. Not only G-sync compatible.

 

And of course refresh Rate at minimum 144Hz. Faster is better especially with 1440P. 

 

Or maybe you suggest that I keep the monitor I already bought. Got it for a very good deal... 449$ included the awful Norwegian tax. The price would be around 340$ without the taxes. I mean this a very great price. But lack full G-sync.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Second. I returned my MSI 4090 liquid X. I really liked the card, but prefer air cooling for a fast swap between different cards (my hobby). What to select.

 

Not much choices of 4090 here home. And FE is a no go. Hence I'll ask for 3 options you would vote for. Not so sure the Zotac boat is the design I want. But put it in if you feel to do that. The best cooling is important. 

 

Thanks.

4K is nice with a big screen and 100% scaling. Only sucks on smaller screens and with scaling ovee 100%. But, I really like 1440p and that is a very good monitor you have. I think the G-Sync is a gimmick if your framerate is as fast or faster than the refreshrate above 120Hz. I doubt you would be able to tell a difference. I can't and have never been able to. I would say it boils down to deciding what you want to do and just do it because you want to. I suspect you will be happy either way. You will adjust (eyes and brain) to the new resolution and it will become the new normal in a few days. 

Although they are 1080p, I really like my curved monitors in a triple-wide array. It look me a short time to adjust to the curve, but going forward  I only plan to purchase curved monitors. Especially nice with two or three because they will fit in a smaller space width-wise and once you adjust it is easier on your eyes and more ergonomically pleasing. If they were flat, I would not be able to fit the triple-screen setup on my desk. It would overhang the sides too much and interfere with placement of other things, including my mid-tower case on the right side and tall cabinet on the left side. Edge-to-edge is 54 inches. If they were flat the same array would be 63 inches wide. Huge difference in the amount of space flat panels would require and they would be harder to use for 10-12 hours per day.

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

But then there's this too:

I noticed the delayed ship time, but also "free shipping today" and wasn't sure which was accurate. But, I'd be fine with waiting if it meant spending $300-$500 less and the shipping was free. It would give me time to sell other things to help stop the hemorrhaging of my wallet before I got billed for the frivolous self-indulgence.

5 hours ago, electrosoft said:

4090 definitely cheap as possible. $1599.99 model especially with silicon lottery in play and the subpar performances of the Suprim Liquid X 4090 reported here by @Papusan and @johnksss.

 

Still hoping I can snag one off of BB before this 10% coupon expires. Any $1599.99 model will do but it isn't looking promising. 😞

If you really want one, I saw the PNY 4090 at TigerDirect Business for $1600 a day or two ago. It was tempting, but I managed to avoid it. 

4 hours ago, cylix said:

Thats why i went with the zotac. Nice card long warranty  and it fits in the case 😆

100%. If I were going to buy a 4090 it would be the Zotac Amp Extreme AIRO. I probably would not even bother looking at other options. Short of that option, it would be an MSI GPU. I would end up wanting to block it for sure, but I think Zotac also has the best aesthetic of all of the air cooled options. The ASUS trash is overpriced and the warranty service too shoddy and shady to even consider it, and the Gigabutt options are pretty lackluster and I think theirs are uglier than any other GPUs except for the gaudiness of the Galax HOF (hard to match tacky looking tech on that order of magnitude). I think I would just save $400-$600+ and settle for a PNY 4090 XLR8 before I would give my money/scalp to the goons at ASUS or Gigabutt.

11 minutes ago, ryan said:

very true, I hate to say it but back when my brain worked I was a hacker. or cracker depending how you see it. Brute force always works and I honestly think russia is involved. was there an end to the cold war or was it just in hiatus. im guessing by the fact america is divided 50/50 im thinking or tend to think the russians won. am I pro russian? No absolutely not! did they out smart us? ask gary kasparov that question. did he sacrifice his queen for no reason

I suspect they probably have been to some degree. They needed feckless leadership to be put back in charge because they were terrified by what was happening under leadership with gonads. What is interesting is how all of that got twisted and deflected though. The party accused of being in cahoots with the Russians was the one that wouldn't be, and the one that the Russians (and Chinese) feared the most. It is so obvious, especially considering the Russian and Chinese business deals that the media have tried to cover up and suppress. It is diabolical that so much information was suppressed, skewed and concealed to manipulate public opinion and influence election outcomes. The outcome has been damaging to this nation by every measurement. Not one identifiable good thing has come from it.