Mr. Fox

9 minutes ago, johnksss said:

Where is the picture?

All of his pictures posted in the thread around that time are gone and have that same thumbnail as a placeholder. I don't know if the image host is down or if they got deleted. That's why I only use imgur and postimg.org. I have images saved 5+ years ago that are still accessible. Photobucket and Imageshack were terrible about deleting images after a while of not being viewed.

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

Microsoft try out new features to make Win 11 to a better experience for next main upgrade. Do you want new features like this also added in Win 10 or Win 10 LTSC? @Mr. Fox @Ashtrix maybe it's about time jump on the latest and greatest from Redmond? People ask for more features... And Microsoft will offer it in loads.

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

So, now we will need Adguard to protect us from Windows itself? LoL... apparently telemetry and identity theft wasn't enough to keep them fat and sassy.

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

Anyone else feeling the renewed sense of Windows' role in the world?

I think what Mr. Nutella was actually saying is:

"Windows has always stood for sovereignty for creators and agency for consumers, and with Windows 11 we have a renewed sense of Windows' role in the world as supreme dictator."

 

But yeah... I "felt it" LOL. Kind of like this...

 

On 10/26/2022 at 8:08 PM, tps3443 said:

I got through R23 at 6Ghz P-Cores, 4.5Ghz E-Cores, and 5.1Ghz Cache, with only 1.360V 😃 

@365 watts peak ..package temps were still like 80C, imagine this CPU with a delid. 
 

 

Screenshot inbound and coming. I had to power off my PC and let it dry real quick though. 
 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, johnksss said:

More than likely....water damage some where on the board having to do with the ethernet port. And if you have not been using it for a while, you wouldn't know when it got messed up..... Speculations of course.

Now yeah, that would be possible. Hadn't thought of that. It wasn't that long ago that it might have gotten wet even if it was not evident at the time. That was a lot of condensation on the water block a few weeks ago.

18 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Microsoft try out new features to make Win 11 to a better experience for next main upgrade. Do you want new features like this also added in Win 10 or Win 10 LTSC? @Mr. Fox @Ashtrix maybe it's about time jump on the latest and greatest from Redmond? People ask for more features... And Microsoft will offer it in loads.

 

Microsoft is bringing more ads to Windows 11

Mayank Parmar - November 8, 2022

0

Windows 11 could get more advertisements and popups, according to new features spotted in the preview builds. While the new ads that we're seeing are currently in testing for the operation system, it’s likely that the ads will eventually start appearing on the production builds.

So, now we will need Adguard to protect us from Windows itself? LoL... apparently telemetry and identity theft wasn't enough to keep them fat and sassy.

Given that the outer metal housing around the end of the connector is what looks to have been shorted, it almost looks like it was putting power to ground.

5 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

The length might have something to do with it, but it's way off the max supported length (300ft+). Nice riddle. Perhaps some conductive debris got into the socket and caused a short...

But, it is still not clear how or why the ethernet port itself would be carrying enough current to cause what happened. Very strange. 

20 minutes ago, ryan said:

lol and the max is 48volts lmfao......Im pretty sure a watch has more voltage pumping through it....hyperbole I know but its just im still laughing....Iv'e heard some pretty funny shiz before but Im not going to say it but I dont think it was the ethernet cable...kinda like plugging in your phone at a nuclear power plant and blaming the meltdown on your phone..

 

 

edit..

 

 

gasoline cooling?

 

15 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

 

Here is the cable, and the burn mark inside the Ethernet port. It was only running from computer to computer. 
 

I don’t know how it’s possible, or how it even happen. I just know the cable was heating up like crazy. And so was my motherboard I/O area. It melted the cable, and burned my Ethernet port. It shut off my PC and tripped the breakers of my office and even my kitchen. 
 

I had to pull the cable out with pliers, it was literally seized inside the 2.5gbit port. 
 

 

 

6 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I don’t know what it was. I’m merely explaining what happen. Not sure how it happen or why it happen, but it definitely happen to me, not sure what caused it. My wife was actually the one who physically plugged it in to my computer. We both smelled the burning. 

That is just too weird for words. Scary though... could have been disastrous. So glad nothing bad came of it.

15 minutes ago, ryan said:

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-be-electrocuted-by-an-Ethernet-cable-with-PoE-Power-over-Ethernet-In-which-conditions

What is weird, if I interpreted @tps3443post correctly, he simply connected one end of the CAT cable to his PC and the other end to his wife's PC, no PoE involved unless he forgot to mention that. How that would happen is a mystery to me. Make no sense at all. I don't know where or how that much current would be generated with a direct network cable connection between two computers.

10 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Did I read that right? Your 12900K has SP104 E cores? 

LOL, no... typo. Thanks for identifying it. I will fix it. That's backwards. E would be "extreme" and P for "puny" for that to be accurate. This is basically the same SP rating that Brother @Papusan12900K had. I think there was a point or two different on the E-cores, but do not remember exactly.

 

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

I plugged a long Ethernet cable in to my computer from my wife’s work computer. So I could provide internet access to her system. Well, right after I plugged this Ethernet cable in it began liquifying the rubber housing on the Ethernet cable, I couldn’t unplug it because it was now stuck inside of the Ethernet port. My Unity-X started getting really really really hot in the I/O area. Then in the moment of panic and imagining cooking 13900K’s my PC completely shutdown on me, then I realized my chiller LCD was shut off too. I lost power to half the house as well.
 

I flipped the breakers off and back on, and fortunately my PC survived this ordeal with no loss in function. Even that Ethernet port still works with some heavy burn marks on the side of the inner port. The Ethernet cable has metal around the plastic housing, so it looks like it touched metal to metal and grounded something I’m not sure. 
 

Anyone know WTH may have happen here though? 

Wow, that is nuts. NO IDEA. So happy you didn't lose your PC or golden 13900K in the process. Thank the Lord for that.

---

I ordered an open box Strix Z690-E so I can move to DDR5 on Banshee and get rid of the white (the replacement is all black - my preference). This might be the last glam shot, LOL. 

 

I am probably going to offer the nicely binned, delidded and lapped 12900K SP92 (104P-70E), Strix Z690-A, DDR4-4000 kit and Velocity2 (or silver Optimus - buyer's choice) waterblock in the marketplace in the next week or two. If anyone wants info or is interested before I list it in the marketplace thread, let me know. I also have a spare XSPC pump/res and a couple of 240MM radiators I can include.

 

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Lawyers always win 😉

50% of the time. What varies is whether they are the plaintiff or defendant. For every winner there is a loser. In some venues the bad guys usually win, while in other venues the opposite is true. In either case, the outcome is a direct  reflection of the heart and mindset of the people that live there.

On 11/5/2022 at 11:44 PM, Mr. Fox said:

 

OK, here is an update. I remember Igor's Lab testing a "sausage" with a more viscous paste versus spreading a creamier paste like MX-4 or KPX and he found better results using a really thick thermal compound down the middle of a GPU core in a straight line. So, just for shiggles, I thought why not. Instead of using KPX or MX-4 (both of which I tested already after finding before and after temps the same) and Phobya Nanogrease Extreme, I grabbed a free tube of the TF7 from the CPU contact frame kit. I put a straight line down the middle, and I also followed what Igor suggested with the GPU and did not go in a criss-cross pattern. I snugged down all four nuts until they made contact with the block while pressing down in the middle. Then I tightened two on one side first, then two on the other side. I also noticed that I had forgotten to disable V-Core Guardband in the BIOS. So, I did that, too. While my V-Core setting remains the same, disabling Intel Guardband prevents the VID from increasing and keeps VID and V-Core at or near the same value. Don't know that it matters, and I think it actually doesn't matter because VID is not the real voltage going to the CPU. But, I like seeing the VID and V-Core values resembling one another rather than the CPU "thinking" it needs more voltage than it really does and fibbing about it with a bogus VID value.

 

So, here we go... same stress test... ready... wait for it...

...see you tomorrow, fellas.

11 hours ago, tps3443 said:

That’s awesome they changed it. Hey, is the Kryos block a direct die application? 
 

 

I just bought the delid kit, and copper IHS for 13th Gen Intel from Rockitcool.
 

I couldn’t resist!!!! 😭😭😭

Yes it's good that they made an aftermarket clone (dimensionally) of the stock IHS so that other parts are compatible. I do not expect it will perform any better, but it will give us something good to use with liquid metal instead of ruining the markings on the stock IHS.

 

Please be careful. Watch closely to make sure the IHS is not rotating during the delid. I'd hate to see you knock all of the SMDs off of the CPU in the process. If I hadn't stopped to check mine in the middle of the delid process it would have happened to me. I don't know why it rotates like that. I've never experienced that in the past during a delid.

46 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

(2) people so far on Overclock.net who say the Rocket cool copper IHS with the bending frame work together just fine. And apparently it does fit 

If that is true it has been completely redesigned from what it was. I purchased one for 12th Gen and it is as wide as the CPU with cutouts for the "wings" and SMDs near the edge of the PCB. The one I purchase was way too big for the opening in the contact frame. So, it was either totally redesigned to match stock dimensions or the people saying that are full of baloney.

 

Edit: it has been totally redesigned. That is good news. I got one of the first 12th Gen delid tool and copper IHS, so they probably figured out people wanted to use the contact frame instead of the stock ILM. I am ordering one so I can use liquid metal on top and preserve my stock IHS. https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/collections/12th-gen-intel-processor/products/copper-ihs-kit-intel-12th-gen

46 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Also, have you tried remounting that 13900K IHS again with LM. Your results just seem really really low. I keep hearing 11C reduction. And you are saying the same or worse temps. Just kind of surprising that it did not help is all.

I already have liquid metal under the IHS. That is all I ever use. I am not going to ruin the identification markings on the IHS by putting it on top. (See comment above.)

46 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Have you double checked your application and mount? 

Yup, several times. Mount is perfect and temps are exactly the same every time. I even tried using the EKWB Velocity2 block and the temps were within 1°C of the Optimus Foundation block.

---

Edit #2 - I also have one of these on order. Cuplex Kryons NEXT 1700. Should be interesting.

 

46 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

I love watching this guys videos. Entertaining and informative stuff. 

Yes, 100%. I believe he will have my 2080 Ti FTW3 beast GPU back in working order in a jiffy.

In this video Tony reballs a GPU core.

 

27 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

yep good decision. the full copper IHS brings at best only 1-3C improvement vs. stock whereas the ILM can provide 7-8C on avg and up to 15C in outlier cases. so net one is better off going stock IHS + contact frame.

as for naked copper vs. nickel plated copper i dont think theres much difference with LM, at least not once u ensure the naked copper is surface saturated with LM first to avoid dryout.

I have used liquid metal on raw copper for years without issue. That is the only option available on laptops. You're correct that once it gets saturated and no longer absorbing the liquid metal there's no meaningful difference between the two in terms of performance. However, a high quality nickel-plated surface is preferable for ease of maintenance. You don't get the hard clumps of liquid metal that have to be sanded off like you do on copper. On the plus side, liquid metal is more likely to stay exactly where you place it on raw copper, versus the slippery nickel surface.  Given a choice between the two, I would choose the nickel.

29 minutes ago, johnksss said:

Not really sure what sitting at a screen accomplishes, but ok. I'm in.

I am not following you, but maybe I missed something along the way. What are you referring to here, brother John?

 

Anybody tried this yet? https://store.steampowered.com/app/1472250/ROG_CITADEL_XV/ (it's free)

 

This freebie ends tomorrow. https://store.steampowered.com/sale/vermintide2giveaway So, grab it before it's gone. I didn't want Vermintide enough to bother buying it, but it is fun to play now that it is free. Now I can see why my son that enjoys it so much likes playing it.

28 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Hey lower is better with MSI. So I’ll take it.

Yeah, but it changed and unless your CPU changed that should have remained constant. With the ASUS SP ratings, I haven't seen accuracy in the voltage predictions, and they also change. At best, it is a ballpark calculation. I have found the voltage required for stability was always higher or lower than the prediction. You know you have a good sample based on the results you are getting, so the ASUS SP rating or MSI Force number doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. These numbers are useful for identifying defective trash CPU samples than need to be RMA'd though. They do not identify whether or not your IMC is good or garbage. 

 

Having a screenshot showing the ASUS SP rating is also good for resale value because some peope place tremendous stock in that number.

1 minute ago, tps3443 said:

Your kidding.. The Rocket cool IHS doesn’t fit the thermalright frame? I had no idea. Glad I didn’t buy it then. 
 

Update: Force rating has dropped to 129.
I guess the CPU is nice and burned in now.

 

 

 

That can happen with ASUS SP ratings sometimes as well. It's only a tool. While it is useful for some things, it is not a 100% reliable indicator of results. I wouldn't worry about that number changing too much. At the end of the day, results are what matter. Not a rating assigned based on a programmed algorithm... GIGO.

11 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Maybe grab the Rockitcool copper IHS. I think they are like $30 dollars. I feel the same way though. I want to use LM on the IHS because I know it’ll drop temps off by about 5-8c but I hate to ruin my CPU. 

Does not work with the contact frame and I don't want to use the stock ILM. Copper is also inferior to nickel surfaces when using liquid metal. 

11 hours ago, tps3443 said:

One more thing, have you checked your Optimus cold plate lately? They clog up really bad. Like really really bad. When I first installed my 13900KF I could barely cool it without the waterchiller running all the time. At 5.8Ghz and 1.315V it would hit 98C package temps, and I noticed temp degradation with my 11900K pretty bad too. After replacing the cold plate My 13900KF temps fell and only runs about 86C package temps. Both of my Optimus blocks have clogged up using just distilled water.

Yes, it's clean.  I no longer use the Signature blocks because of the solid metal unibody housing. I prefer the clear plexi top on the Foundation so I can visually monitor the cleanliness of the cold plate.

58 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Yeah I’m probably not going to delid it. I’m fine with how it performs right now. It’s a great chip with good silicon and the factory tim is doing okay. I have delidded all of my CPU’s I’ve ever owned lol. I guess I could skip just one. 😂
 

@Mr. Fox did you use thermal paste or liquid metal? I’ve found that thermalpaste under the IHS will perform the same as a non-delidded CPU that is soldered sometimes even worse. I would also try LM between the IHS and water block cold plate. Definitely using the liquid metal sandwhich is the only way to go.
 

When I tested direct die I could consistently get 10-11c lower temps by just switching from thermal paste to liquid metal. 
 

Honestly it seems like it would still provide a decent temp reduction. That’s crazy that it didn’t. Maybe give EKWB a shot when their direct die LGA1700 block eventually comes out, then you can remove the IHS all together. It’s supposed to be good.

I always use liquid metal under the IHS where the solder used to be. The only exception was with the Ryzen 5950X nightmare, which ran hotter after a delid because the chiplets were inconsistent height and there was no longer any solder plugging all the gaps and liquid metal doesn't work for that. Using thermal paste made the temps the same as stock solder (before delid).

 

Using liquid metal on top will absolutely yield better results than thermal paste, but I don't want to destroy the markings on the stock IHS. Maybe I will buy a broken 13th Gen CPU on eBay (something very low end like i5) and use the IHS. I could lap it and use liquid metal and keep the stock IHS looking new. When I had to lap one of the 12900K IHS due to the damage caused by the delid process that made a huge difference. But, the IHS was already destroyed so I had nothing to lose.

 

---

FYI - stop the nonsense YouTube ads with this awesome Chrome extension... SponsorBlock. It is my Windows substitute for Vanced MicroG on Android. Never wait for a video to play or be interrupted during the video again by advertisements.

11 minutes ago, Papusan said:

I saw Jufes results from the delidd. But me think I only saw a gain of 5C. The rest was from the other he did. Yep, I think a lot is into the solder job. Even the IHS has some variance. Intel can't make all chips 100% equal.

Had I known it, then of course I would not have wasted my time on a worthless exercise that yielded no benefit. Based on the temps he is seeing, I would also suggest that @tps3443not waste any time on it or risk damaging his CPU. I do not think he would see any benefit, just as I did not.

 

The 13900K does not have the super tiny SMD components on the PCB at opposite corners of the die like 12900K/KS does. There is nothing under the IHS except for the die. Like 12th Gen, it is very difficult to get the stock rubber gasket off of the PCB. More than any other prior generation CPUs, the black rubber sealant sticks extremely well and it is very time consuming and tedious, especially near the resistors and capacitors mounted near the IHS. I used plastic razor blades and even using them it was hard to get the PCB  cleaned off.

Here is the damage to the left wing on the IHS. You can see that it was deformed by pressing against it. I had to sand it down to take the burr off of the edge.

 

 

I also sanded the underside of the IHS to remove the black rubber seal and to make sure it was perfectly flat after the damage to the left wing on the IHS.

19 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

 

Wait really? Delidding the 13900K didn't do much to drop the temperatures? That's very interesting. Guess Intel did a really good job with the solder on these CPUs.

 

14 minutes ago, Papusan said:

I just open the door so fresh air come in. But 13900K run quite ok regarding temps as long you don't max it out. A lot better than Alder lake. And yet, my bin is about average or slightly above. 

 

Jep. I have seen some with good gain from delidding and some not. I think much is up to how good the soldering was done from Intel.

 

Regarding AMD. I mean if you have an AMD graphics card the Cpu scores will be lower in many benches. Have seen it myself. Not sure whats up with AMD. But from what I have seen, I avoid this brand. Even if benches was a bit better than from Intel.

I also have probably better than average P-cores and not so great E-core, probably average E-core quality. Yeah, seems like I must have had a good factory solder job. I've not seen this happen before with an Intel CPU. I always have seen a benefit from delidding until now. The temperatures per core saw essentially no change. I was like "Wait, what? The same?" If I did not mark the before and after screenshot you would not be able to tell which temperatures were delid or stock solder except by looking at the clock in the system tray.

 

 

It was also more difficult to delid than 12900K/KS. The IHS was trying to rotate counter clockwise instead of pushing straight sideways, and the solder was less brittle than normal. It seemed more like lead and it was a bit stretchy.