Mr. Fox

Brother @ryanis a wonderful person and I am glad he is part of our community. We are better because of his being here.

I have had to adjust my communication style and refrain from speaking freely, even though sometimes it takes all the effort I can muster to say nothing. While it might not seem like it to some, there are many things I would like to say that I do not because it might spark strife or controversy. I like everyone that is part of this community in spite of where we may have differing views. I am a lot older than he is and have had more time to practice. 

There are also generational, cultural and familial values differences that come into play among all of us. My kids say things today as adults that would have gotten them a hard spanking or their mouth washed out with soap, but to their generation they are just sassy, smartalek words and not highly offensive and destructive words that you would only use in a contemptuous and hateful way. Sadly, that can cloud good judgment and lower social standards because it doesn't respect the power of the tongue. Fortunately, they are smart enough to recognize that they have to consider their audience and temper their language in a manner that doesn't convey a different message than what they intend.

Here is a passage (Matthew 15:18) from The Message (an amplified Bible translation) that I think really nails it. It is not the actual words themselves, but the intent behind them and the condition of the heart and mind as you are speaking them, that makes them problematic.

Jesus replied, “You, too? Are you being willfully stupid? Don’t you know that anything that is swallowed works its way through the intestines and is finally defecated? But what comes out of the mouth gets its start in the heart. It’s from the heart that we vomit up evil arguments, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, lies, and cussing. That’s what pollutes. Eating or not eating certain foods, washing or not washing your hands—that’s neither here nor there.”

2 hours ago, ryan said:

I didnt actually know this but I assumed swearing was due to lack of a vocabulary as commonly known... but alot of studies indicate the opposite here something grabbed right from google headlines

 

People assumed that choosing to use swearwords meant you were too dumb to think of different, better, or more polite words. But. Newer research (from 2015) shows that someone using expletives has nothing to do with a lack of overall vocabulary.

 

people with a higher vocabulary tend to swear more often according to reports

I am not sure how reliable that data is. It may not be reflective of intelligence or mastery of vocabulary as much as just being a rude, crass and uncouth or unprincipled person that lacks self-discipline. A creative use of vocabulary has potential to be far more accurate and even hurtful when the tongue is wielded as a weapon without the use of vulgar words.

Example:

"Ricky is a dumbass." or "What I find most amazing is the fact I cannot recall having ever met a person more lacking in common sense and basic human intelligence than Ricky." The former might be nothing but a reaction to an isolated circumstance or a basis for disagreement with Ricky. The latter is a emotionless statement that describes Ricky's ineptness and defects as a human being. The latter is far more hurtful to Ricky than random use of a vulgar word. If your intent is to hurt Ricky's feelings, calling him a dumbass isn't going to do much. It just makes you look like a jerk. (Hopefully, nobody here is named Ricky. I just chose that name because I don't know anyone by that name.)

1 hour ago, ryan said:

ok its football time.....does anyone know of a free streaming site with or without ads...i really really wanna watch it it would mean alot to me

Fox Sports - you can stream it on PC or smart TV.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl-2023-super-bowl-lvii

8 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

That sounds great. Just to confirm - the method is: 1) delid 2) LM on die 3) LM on the IHS (can be an IHS from a different LGA1700 CPU). I guess I will burn some time and money trying to procrastinate and on this, then get started. This would solve the cooling, if not open up some OC potential.

One more noob Q: why would I bother looking for another IHS to use after delidding? Isn't the CPU warranty voided and CPU split open, so any future owners of the CPU would just have to accept this, or is it possible to reassemble a delidded CPU with the original IHS (for resale for instance)? Not clear why though. If a CPU is successfully delided, it has more value in a sense as it will run cooler? 

Yes, you have the correct methodology. As for the noob question, it really only matters to someone that might want to buy it later. When you are attempting to sell it, it is helpful  that anyone can see in the photo what they are buying. It can also help with identifying any spare parts you have in an inventory or stash if you can tell what it is without having to label it or put it into a system to identify what it is. These are the reasons I like having the original marking legible. It is otherwise totally irrelevant, and the performance improvement is more valuable.

There are some people that are truly weirdos and care about the markings more than they care about performance. They are also often the type that want to keep the original decals and tags on products they buy. I have known a lot of people that want to keep original decals on things that are old, worn-out and curling on the edges. By the time that has happened, removing the decals is actually aesthetically detrimental because the color of the surface under the decal no longer matches the adjacent surfaces that were not covered by the decal.

As a general rule, a delidded used CPU should be worth more to someone that knows enough to value it as an enhancement. You are correct that the warranty is voided by the delid. If you buy a tray (OEM) CPU that is not a boxed retail product, it has no warranty from Intel. So, there is no warranty to void unless the place that sold it to you offers a warranty.

13 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Great tips as always! BTW What the bottom line delidding result for you again? AFAIR you weren't too impressed with the 12900KS initially? Then again, 13900K is a different beast (needs 50W more power for me). Did you delid the 13900K too?

Yes. I actually got good results from a delid on both. I had truly lousy results bare die with the Supercool 12th Gen kit (which has been redesigned). What I ended up having to do on the 12900K to get good results is sand down the bottom of the IHS. Apparently there was enough of a lip to make an air gap where the solder used to be. @tps3443actually suggested that. When I started checking closer why nothing was helping, I found that the IHS would not "spin" on the die because it was dragging on the PCB. Once I sanded it down enough that the IHS was resting on the die instead of contacting the PCB, the temps instantly fell in line. I did not have to do that with the 13900K. In both cases about 10°-12°C improvement from delid.

13 minutes ago, ryan said:

yeah I guess. I don't typically swear, but when I do its usually just in the context of the words they used. if something says sposting and im defending someone ill reference the word sposting. but I don't get why after 1.5k posts this is even an issue. how many of us are bothered by the odd euphemism or slang word?

I find it offensive when people use profanity in casual conversation, and it causes me to think negative things about them as a person. I know lots of people that use the "s" and "f" words in general conversation and they always strike me as being a bit dumb and not having a good command of the English language, even though some are very intelligent. At the very least, it conveys a sense that they are lacking common courtesy and professionalism. When someone is angry, upset or physically injured, I do not find it so offensive because the fact that they do not normally use that type of language lets me know that something unfortunate has occurred and the vulgar expression is helping them cope with the physical or emotional trauma of the situation.

22 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Thanks for the LM tips, I have a feeling I will soon be in a position of having no choice but to put them into practice (nothing against LM in principle, but the setup is clearly more complicated and damages the CPU markings).

 

Good point about the pads. There is also a 7950 paste, but laptop people have been complaining about it requiring 14h curing time. Let me actually order that too, as it could prove more suitable.

Edit: no luck finding any apart from ebuy7. Oh well. It will get here by Easter or something.

It does make the CPU laser etched marking obscure and generally illegible. I have heard you can use sulfuric or muriatic acid to restore them, but it is the one thing I do not like about using it. If you have delidded, just get an aftermarket IHS or buy a cheap used Celeron and steal the IHS from that. I bought a used LGA 1700 Celeron on eBay for like $35, took the IHS off of it and put it on my 13900K with liquid metal. 😄 You can also use the Rockit Copper IHS, but I had to trim it down a bit with a dremmel tool to make it fit the Thermalright CPU frame. Once I did that it worked great. 

9 minutes ago, ryan said:

average age in NBT 45 plus

 

1) rule 1 no swearing (swearing isnt like it was in the 50s....last time I checked it was 2023)

2) rule two don't comment alot too build forum up

3) no double triple posting.

 

I honestly thought we were adults, and we make NBT as them. how come everyone but me can swear? @Mr. Fox  @Papusan

I think some of it may have to do with context, timing, and the choice of words. I tend to use slang euphemisms like "effed up" in place of the more offensive term that should not normally be used by a civilized person with an IQ above 50. I know the kiddos think it makes them a big boy to use potty-mouth in normal casual conversation that involves no expression of emotion. Profanity is best reserved for situations that call for an emphasis or conveyance of extreme anger or pain. It provides a way of safely venting by using harsh words in lieu of violent actions or threats.

17 minutes ago, ryan said:

I think it would be fun learning to build a desktop and finally being able to properly overclock and benchmark I seem to enjoy it enough so its not a waste of money. Im just not sure if I should save up and go all out or just go midrange as I do game a tiny bit....the odd 10 min session once a week

Watch the video from Dawid. Good parts and good instructions from NZXT. I think the NZXT BLD option would be a really good option for you, unless you really want someone else to assemble it. 

17 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

I've pretty much tried all the top pastes now and none are fully adequate. Will try this, then go to LM if needed. A lot of conflicting info on the benefits of LM when applied on the IHS though.

The key to getting liquid metal to work on top of the IHS is applying enough and applying it to both surfaces. If you don't use enough and do not apply it to both mating surfaces it is not going to work as well. The most common mistake is only applying it to one surface. A wet IHS and a dry heat sink is almost guaranteed to perform worse than thermal paste. That also applies to laptops, under the IHS on a delid, and bare die. Both halves have to come together wet to get good results.

17 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Yeah, the problem is that they are just 8.5W/mK, and most (the only?) great reviews I have seen are from laptop users. I have yet to watch the Linus video on it. Anyway, I ordered some for science, if anything. 

They are also too thick for good results in an application where fitment is not problematic. You want as little TIM as possible when the parts fit well. The closer to zero space you can get between the IHS and cold plate the better. Adding thickness there impairs heat transfer. It's only beneficial when the parts fit poorly and you need to have something chunky to plug the gap.

18 minutes ago, cylix said:

NZXT has this program where they send you all the components in a box and then you can build it yourself, so its like an ikea furniture, u cant screw up 😀

I think it was Dawid that featured one of those in a YouTube video. I thought it was good, and he always makes it entertaining.

Edit: Found it... was his wife, but still a good option and an entertaining video. @ryan

19 minutes ago, ryan said:

I dont want to build a unit but whats a good start into desktops pre built....something upgradeable 

Pick anything that is NOT an Alienware. If you look at GamersNexus YouTube channel, they have highlighted the failures of numerous system-builders (which are many, unfortunately) and Alienware is, hands-down and undisputed the master of failure, flawed design and engineering abortion. Also avoid all of the big names like HP, Lenovo, Dell XPS, MSI and ASUS for pre-builts. They all suck, just not as bad as Alienware sucks.

Go with companies like Origin, Digital Storm, NZXT, Maingear, Build Redux, etc. Corsair is so-so, but I would avoid anything SFF or proprietary from anyone. You'll end up with compromises almost as bad as wasting money on an effed-up Alienware.

22 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Has anyone here tried the Honeywell PTM7950 phase-change pad? Apparently it's the new best thing. Just ordered some on ebay, as kind of disappointed with all the non-LM pastes I have tried. They may be great for laptops or lesser  CPUs, but they are not really cutting it with a standard AIO and 300W workloads.

They're really only good for chintzy turdbooks that have sloppy-fitting parts that don't work well with thermal paste due to half-assed engineering and lousy manufacturing QC. If you have a desktop you are going to be better-served by a good thermal paste or liquid metal.

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

Motherboard Shipments Plummet by Ten Million Units in 2022: Report

The combined hit for Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, and ASRock reportedly around 10 million.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/motherboard-shipments-drop-ten-million-units-in-2022-report

We can only hope...

The article misses the mark on what is to blame...

Quote

The observed “feeble demand” for motherboards spanned the whole year, said the report, and was impacted by the usual suspects; workers returning to the office, the crypto-slump, and the economic downturn.

The problem, at least in great part, is due to their idiotic pricing. I do not believe it is due to lack of demand or economic downturn. People that don't have money and shouldn't spend what they do not have are being more stupid than ever about using credit cards. (That is going to bite them--and maybe the rest of us--in the butt in the long run, but it is what it is.) I think the real issue is there are enough people that are not stupid, so they are not giving into stupid prices.

Even the mediocre gamer mobos are priced like the high-end enthusiast/overclocker boards now. The high-end options are beyond ridiculous pricing, but they are still selling because people like us place importance on having what we want over being intelligent about how we spend money.  The mid-range Strix mobos are a good example. I bought mine on eBay as refurbished/open-box option for what should have been new retail pricing, but new retail price is/was more than what I paid for a Dark mobo on sale direct from EVGA. It's OK, but the Strix is definitely not an enthusiast board. It is a gamer mobo priced like it is an overclocker mobo.

6 minutes ago, Talon said:

And 18” screen has now ruined me. I just could not accept 2 decent large dead pixel clusters on a brand new device.

It is very difficult for me to tolerate small screens and keyboards. Minimum acceptable (just barely) is 17.3" screen and I absolutely loathe TKL keyboards. Every time I have owned a laptop with either a 15-inch screen or a keyboard without the numeric keypad I have hated it and regretted buying it.

3 hours ago, johnksss said:

That guy does come off as a smart ass part of the time. At least it seems like that to me.

 

Edit: I see my scores are falling off fast...

He changed his response at some point. He initially called me out for repeating the same thing and that made no sense because I was not repeating anything I had ever said before, LOL. Nor was I repeating anything someone else had said. Here was my notification email. I got a kick out of your response to him. 🙂

5 minutes ago, Tenoroon said:

Hopefully the last P870TM question I'll post here, but I've been trying to figure out if the vapor chamber chamber GPU heatsink or the T-shaped GPU heatsink is better. I want to push the 1080 in here, but I have the vapor chamber heatsink and I'm not sure which is better. I'm willing to buy the T-shaped heatsink if it is verifiably better, but I don't want to be dropping 70-80 bucks on it if it's worse or equal to the vapor chamber I have now.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

vs.

 

 

Vapor chamber is definitely better, whether you have one or two GPUs installed.

10 minutes ago, ryan said:

sweet thanks @Mr. Fox. I need to get my hands on a 4090. I think ill wait till the 5090 comes out because I need to get what I put in for this jokebook

You're welcome.

Let's be honest about gaming. You do not (or at least I do not) need a 4090 to have a good experience. I thoroughly enjoy these and other games with my 3060 Ti FTW3. There is no tangible change in the experience running 100-150 FPS faster with a 4090 versus the 3060 Ti FTW3. I wouldn't know the difference except for the on-screen overlay telling me. 3090, 3090 Ti, 4090 are good for number-chasing. I would not have wasted my money on a 3090 or 4090 for gaming.

Here is Crysis (1) Remastered since that is what you technically asked for. I tried to use the built-in benchmarks for these, but I could not get them to work. The batch files could not "find" the file specified.

SMAA 2TX (max anti-aliasing) ~170 FPS

DLSS: Quality  ~220 FPS

2 hours ago, ryan said:

@Mr. Fox what do you get with crysis remastered completely maxed AA and dlss set to quality? id imagine you would beat my 52fps avg without dlss. hard to beileve iv'e only had this laptop for a year and now some gpus run games better at 4k than this does at 1080p...hard keeping up with tech

I wasn't sure if you wanted to know about FPS with maxed AA versus DLSS set to Quality (since DLSS being enabled disables anti-alias settings and you cannot enable both simultaneously) so I did it both ways for you. Maxed AA is well above 200 FPS, while DLSS Quality is right above 300 FPS. This is at 2560*1440 resolution.

DLSS: Quality

SMAA 2TX (max anti-aliasing)

Edit: I did Crysis3 Remastered. Did you need/want to know about Crysis(1) Remastered?

1 hour ago, johnksss said:

That guy does come off as a smart ass part of the time. At least it seems like that to me.

 

Edit: I see my scores are falling off fast...

16 minutes ago, Tenoroon said:

I remember emailing Leeghoofd a while back asking if my Haswell turbo bin unlock runs were allowed. I just wanted a bit of verification on that as it was never mentioned in the rules. I know it might not have been the best way to contact him, but emailing him was easier than creating an account on those forums. I never received an email back which was a bit odd as I'd assume if he has his email linked as "Contact" on the "About us" page that he would at least acknowledge my email and get me an answer.

I still submitted those runs as the worst thing that could happen is that they get removed and I receive a warning, but the lack of response rubbed me the wrong way. I don't know if I'm being over the top about it, but it just feels weird that he is seemingly very strict when it comes to rule enforcement, and yet when I asked for some clarification on the rules, I never got a response.

Yes, I sent him a PM on the HWBOT forum on January 30th to ask a simple question about something I could not figure out relating to my HWBOT profile settings. I had a friend that said he could not "follow me" because the option is greyed out, but not greyed out for others. I thought maybe there was a setting I needed to toggle to enable it. I could not find such a setting and could not find anything in the FAQ/self-help, so I asked him.

Well, for two weeks now he has ignored my PM on that topic, yet he can find time to post smartass replies to people in the forum trying to have civil dialogue about something a thread was created to have dialogue about.

5 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

@ryan check this out, the only mobile cpu @Mr. Fox will accept with open arms 😄 
 

 

At first it was kind of exciting to think they were going back to socket mounting, and then when he showed it was still going to be BGA in the end (only a test platform) that just totally ruined it.

What is this guy's problem? @johnksssand @Papusanis it just me, or is he just a smartass with an attitude? I feel like trying to interact with some of these dullards is like casting pearls before swine.

https://community.hwbot.org/topic/221655-mandatory-systeminfo-555-update-and-new-benchmark-rules-for-rtx40-series/?do=findComment&comment=636361

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/89017727 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5199765_

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/89018309 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5199779_

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/89018915 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5199791_

28 minutes ago, ryan said:

Nice. Is it crysis 3 remastered or the original...either way that's impressive

Remastered. That's also with the CPU at 6.0GHz on P-cores, 4.8GHz on E-cores, 50x cache and DDR5-8000. It would probably run as well with all of that stock. I doubt it adds a ton of frames, and generally doesn't with most games.

18 minutes ago, ryan said:

 dude 300fps? is that at 720p or 1080p?

1440p @ 165Hz with maxed out graphics settings.

No DLSS since DLSS does not work on Linux. So, pure hardware muscle... no fake frames.

It's nice to see examples of bad people paying for their bad choices and I love seeing justice work itself out. I hope their stock value keeps free-falling and AT&T/DirectTV end up going bankrupt due to insufficient funds and inadequate subscribership. It would serve them right for being stupid and evil.

The issue is they want to refuse to pay Newsmax for their programming with a massive viewer base, even though they pay fees to their woke cronies for programming that appeals to a comparatively very tiny (and shrinking) audience. I can't participate in the boycott because I do not use AT&T or DirectTV services, but I almost wish I did so I could participate in it, LOL.

https://www.newsmax.com/us/directv-at-t-stock/2023/02/11/id/1108254/

I did jump on the Disney boycott and canceled my Disney+ subscription a couple of days ago. The disgusting filth and utterly diabolical propaganda they attempt to brainwash our children with is beyond evil. 

Hopefully you have room for one more idiot here. One thing that is definitely NOT idiotic is that we all love Linux, or want to learn how to love it.

RTX 4090 is working perfectly on KDE...

I've tested a couple of titles just now...

Quake II RTX

Crysis 3 Remastered

4090 is working peachy on Linux.

QuakeII-RTX

Crysis 3 Remastered @ryan

54 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

It has plenty of room. This case is gigantic and doesn't have any cooling components inside of it.. But, that's neither here nor there because I love that EVGA monstrosity of a case. Let's see how much it would cost to ship if it is still available. I will PM you my address.

24 minutes ago, Papusan said:

The E-cores Baby cores don’t have HT. They are just Joke cores designed for weaker mobile laptop chips! With HT they would eat +30% more power and the OC potential would sink as a stone in the Death sea filled with 100% salt😎

I agree. They are "joke cores" indeed. They are literally Intel Atom cores designed for smartphones and tablets. In some systems they actually call them by the correct name in the BIOS, but others refer to them as "efficiency" cores, LOL. You need to overclock at least 16 of them to perform like a stock 8th Gen Intel 8-core CPU with hyperthreading.

23 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

@Mr. FoxHows that surfboard fit in your case? Is someone needing an EVGA DG case?

It has plenty of room. This case is gigantic and doesn't have any cooling components inside of it.. But, that's neither here nor there because I love that EVGA monstrosity of a case. Let's see how much it would cost to ship if it is still available. I will PM you my address.

1 hour ago, Talon said:

@Mr. Fox you got a 4090?! Awesome. Which model? Sorry haven't jumped through the backlog of pages I have here. 

 

Picked up a new BGA toy.

 

I snagged a Suprim Liquid X "sold and shipped by Amazon" for $1799. I had an Alphacool Eisblock Aurora saved in my wishlist ready to move it to my shopping cart as soon as I confirmed that Amazon didn't ship me a dud sample, but now they are sold out everywhere except for an eBay scalper from Italy offering them for $100 more than MyModMods or Performance-PCs.

I haven't mounted the radiator or removed any of the protective plastic from the AIO cooler yet because I am hoping the Eisblock Aurora becomes available soon. The AIO radiator is just standing on end, hose-end-up, in the open space in the middle of my gigantic case. The radiator is just sitting on top of a small cardboard box on the floor of the case to keep the water ports on the radiator higher than the pump in the AIO.

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

 

Hey bro, stuff keeps breaking around these parts so sadly no 😞

 

Currently we are waiting to get a defective 3080 back from service and before that two systems and some non-computer stuff went belly up and we have been relegated to work on that - it is a damn shame.

Oh man, I am so sorry to hear that. I hope my bad luck cooties didn't find you. I remember that ditch you had to run for non-computer issues. That project alone had to be expensive.

If things don't work out with the 3080 keep my 3090 KPE in mind as an option. I haven't tried to sell it yet. I want to keep it and sell the shunt-modded 3060 Ti FTW3, but keep reminding myself that selling it and using the money to offset the 4090 purchase is the more intelligent move. I don't need anything more than the 3060 Ti in my work computer. Keeping the 3090 KPE just because it's better isn't the smart thing to do, but neither was buying a 4090, LOL.