Mr. Fox

2 hours ago, ryan said:

 

you need 18392

 

but @Papusanill send you a 100 dollar gift card on the 10th of jan just pm..and let it be known if you can top papusan ill get you any game or a 100 dollar gift card on the 10th...all major NBT bros are welcome to join

Is it a coincidence where you have positioned Superposition on your screen, or strategic?

34 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Tonight's fun time project..... (Not the $100 new open box special Asus Z590-E binning board. It is already installed in my test case).

 

That's a solid motherboard (same as I am running in my work desktop) with the only Achilles heel being the 6400 limit on RAM overclocking. I have tested about 6 different pairs of UDIMMs in it (including the A-die) and in every case anything above 6400 produces errors and random BSODs. It's solid at 6400 though. It will boot and bench with M-die at 6800, 7000 and 7200, but fails all memory tests with errors.

Edit: Sorry, that is a Z590-E. I looked at it wrong, mine is Z690-E.

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

3 real Jokes today. Pink graphics cards, 4090@80w laptop Gpu and 1000$ 4070Ti desktop graphics card. This is pervers.

 

 

We start with the Pink. Want a Pink graphics card bro @Mr. Fox? Its an Galax. Or will you wait to see if Galax push out a Pink 4090? 

 

GALAX announces GeForce RTX 4070 Ti graphics cards, including the first pink RTX 40 GPU
https://videocardz.com/newz/galax-announces-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-graphics-cards-including-the-first-pink-rtx-40-gpu

 

 

4090@80W graphics card so the gamers can brag about 4090 in their thin and flimsy gaming books with an USB-C charger.

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-announces-geforce-rtx-40-laptop-gpu-series-rtx-4090-with-9728-cudas-and-16gb-gddr6-memory

 

Yep, close to $1000 USD for a mid range graphics card. 4080 isn't the only card to avoid! All cards below 4090 is to be avoided. Same for the boiling Radeon 7900 series from AMD. 

 

Colorful introduces GeForce RTX 4070 Ti graphics cards for up to $969
https://videocardz.com/press-release/colorful-introduces-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-graphics-cards-for-up-to-969

 

 

What? So now we have anime, manga, pink, white and black. No yellow? What about a brony edition? And, no rainbow "pride" option? I am so offended.

They must be racists.  I'm going to upload a TikTok video to express my rage.

I am waiting for the 4060 Ti @ 5W TGP for Chromebook. That will run my favorite PopCap games without stuttering. Bejeweled will be better than ever.

On that note...

21 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

sigh yeah thats the thing with tech & science....by itself completely neutral, just depends what u do with it. can go either way, from saving humanity to destroying it.

It seems like science has been redefined as a blind acceptance of information that is assumed to be factual based primarily upon whatever is a most popular agenda in secular atheistic social media circles. We've seen many recent examples of tyrannical rule by decree and fiat under a façade dubbed "science" by unworthy authorities and plain old goofed up weirdos.

1 minute ago, jaybee83 said:

might be something as innocuous as them being able to access a wider range of CPUs as time passes and thus adjusting their algo for calculating the SP. 

I suspect that is exactly what it is, and it is the only logical explanation. That is why I speculated about the undocumented backdoor telemetry thing. I do wonder what other information they might be collecting without disclosing it. Probably worse than we think. We live in a very dangerous era where techological capabilities do more to support criminal behavior and unethical, overbearing government than what is contributed to the betterment of society.

2 hours ago, Custom90gt said:

@Mr. Foxwhere did you end up picking up those sticks?  I see Newegg has them, but for $350 a stick, lol. 

Yeah, that is totally ludicrous and another example of scalping. Splave was selling them on HWBOT Forum for $500 a pair, which is also insane. I got them on AliExpress for $131.00 each. I love that they easily run 8000 MT/s,  but the M-die sticks that I paid $80 each for are still a better value overall. 
 

Here:  New 16GB HMCG78AGBUA081N DDR5 5600B Desktop Memory Overfrequency 8000+

I will probably offer the 12900KS and those M-die sticks for sale as a package deal in the marketplace in case anyone here is ready for an affordable upgrade.

1 hour ago, Ashtrix said:

Yeah, also I think we need to see V/F offsets more than just SP rating.

I've never viewed the SP rating as reliable for the reasons previously stated. If it were reliable, it wouldn't change with firmware modifications, and it would be calculated based on physical attributes of a CPU. Unfortunately, it is the only measurement we have other than the MSI Force2 and they're not compatible, and they're only useful if you buy a brand and model that incorporates it. 

1 hour ago, Ashtrix said:

ASUS is a fallen company. It's a miracle that their boards work maybe their BIOS Engineers and HW division is the only one keeping it alive. Maybe all of them have some issues if we see forums of MSI, EVGA, GB but ASUS is way too popular and nowadays their QC is awful. Proof is above episode which is still not resolved for Z590.

I wonder how much longer the ROG line will remain popular and relevant. There has to come a point when people stop buying defective products that lack respectable QC just because their firmware has a lot of obscure and undocumented menu items that nobody understands or benefit from. It is both ironic and sad that their least reliable products are their most expensive halo models that should be approaching perfection, but the shoddy warranty service applies to their entire product line. I see what feels like a growing sense of disapproval of the brand. I think it eventally has to catch up with them. Word of mouth reputation is usually what decides the fate of a business. And, their broken trash like Armory Crate and Aura certainly doesn't win them any extra points with the kiddos. They need their rainbow puke software to work.

43 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Massive SP change in action....today finally installing this Asus Strix Z590-E in my testing case after the worst December of my life (understatement):

 

Before BIOS 0902

 

 

After BIOS 1701

 

 

Wow, that is an even bigger change than I saw. Massive change, in fact. Interesting that firmware can change something that much. In a way, it tends to dilute confidence in the reliability of the SP measurement. It can be manipulated if ASUS is influenced by external forces or ever decides to take on an agenda of some sort. I bet that CPU Brother@Clamibotpurchased from me would also have a really high SP rating now compared to what the firmware said it was when I last checked it.

ASUS must have some sort of backdoor telemetry gathering data from all of the systems connected to the internet with a relevant mobo/chipset. If that is the case, I wonder what other data they are gathering. If not, then it begs the question of how they are getting the information that would cause the change over time.

Glad to see you are on the mend. You must be starting to feel better now if you were able to muster the time and effort for this. 

4 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

how much of a thermal improvement do those custom RAM heatsinks provide bro fox?

Huge improvement. More than a 30% reduction in maximum temperature and enough to make the difference between passing memory stability tests and failing them. As you can see in that screenshot, I ran TestMem Pro for 1 hour (200%) and maxed out at under 35°C at 8000MHz and 1.500V on the memory. Without the waterblock temps are generally around 42°C. With your normal gamerkid RGB memory with the fancy heatsinks heating blankets I would see above 55°C at 6800 and 1.450V. Memory errors begin to occur and you start losing stability around 45°C on DDR4 and DDR5. DDR5 gets hotter and gets hotter faster because of the much higher clock speeds compared to DDR4.

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

I've been a diehard WoW player since launch and I've played since Jan 2005 so it is my mainstay and metric for performance. I've never played at less than 2560x1600 resolution even back then as my rig was an Apple Dual G5 tower w/ an Apple 30" display but as time has passed so has the increase in graphics and CPU requirements as the engine has gone through 4 major upgrades that require current content to really take advantage. The last major upgrade was the Battle for Azeroth Xpac where it got a major rewrite then Shadowlands where they added in 1st gen RT. Dragonflight extends that a bit more.

I knew that about you. Even your wife is a WoW fan if I remember correctly.  It is awesome that you've been a fan and playing since launch. I am much the same way with the Crysis Franchise.  I used to be with CoD as well, but they strayed from the path enough that I am no longer interested in the last couple of installments to the franchise.

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

On the other hand, lest we forget the 3090ti can still bring the pain....

 

I said it before and I'll say it again. If you have a 3090/3090ti the only real upgrade is a 4090.

 

 

Indeed. And, that is with the 7900 XTX core clock roughly 500 MHz higher than the 3090 Ti.

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Always hard to find real, valid WoW or FO76 testing/comparison between cards. Hardware Numb3rs seems to have gotten real spotty posting lately which was my go to for WoW benchmarks. Hopefully he gets something up sooner than later.

Is it because of the passion you have for WoW and FO76, which makes it particularly meaningful on a personal level, that you look specifically for those comparisons; or, something about those particular titles that taxes a GPU in a "Can it run Crysis?" kind of way? 

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

OK, I think I got this dialed in now for my 24/7 overclock. It's so easy to run these generic green A-die sticks at 8000 MT/s. It's ludicrous in light of how many retail kits I RMA'd with RGB rainbow vomit and sloppy loose gamerkidz XMP profiles that cost double, were pure garbage and would barely even boot at speeds like this. Consumers are getting screwed real hard.

The generic green M-die was also vastly superior to the retail craptastick options. I thought that one of my pairs of M-die was slightly better than the other (which would not be surprising) and did more testing with the 13900K back in the Strix Z690-E and they're actually extremely close to the same. I got a good deal on a 13900KF for the Strix and will be selling my nice 12900KS sample that was the same SP92 rating as the one @Papusanhas. I saw no improvement whatsoever in memory overclocking, which was the reason I bought it.

Well... as it turns out, the 6400 brick wall is actually a physical limitation of the Strix mobo. I never looked at the documentation until yesterday. And, yup... dammit... that is the highest supported RAM speed. It will boot and run (benchable) up 7200, but not stable to matter what voltage or timings I have tested. Stablity goes out the door as soon as I move from 6400 to 6600. I knew it was a gamerboy product and it is totally fine for my work computer, for sure. But, I was surprised to find 6400 is the maximum supported memory clock.

Also interesting, my 13900K SP rating is higher than I thought. When I originally tested it in the Strix mobo it was SP95. Now it is SP103 with a significant improvement on the E-cores (from 73 to 83). The 13900KF is almost identical at SP102 (both are SP113 on P-cores, with SP81 on the KF E-cores). So, that was my real Christmas present. I wondered why my 13900K seemed so good with a mediocre SP rating. Apparently the BIOS on the Strix at that time was not dialed in correctly for 13900K. It was the first BIOS version for 13th Gen when it told me my CPU was only SP95. 

OK, I think I got this dialed in now for my 24/7 overclock. It's so easy to run these generic green A-die sticks at 8000 MT/s. It's ludicrous in light of how many retail kits I RMA'd with RGB rainbow vomit and sloppy loose gamerkidz XMP profiles that cost double, were pure garbage and would barely even boot at speeds like this. Consumers are getting screwed real hard.

5 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Are people stupid bro @Ashtrix @Mr. Fox?

Yes. Yes, they are.

So are the people testing and reporting on the "progress" LOL. Plenty of Kool-Aid to go around... bottomless supply of it for the bottom feeders. Their graph shows PL1/PL2 set at 253W. Why? Maybe because they only want partial performace? Or, maybe because it lowers the bar so that Windows 10 and 11 look equal? What would the graph look like with 4095W for PL1/PL2, and why do people even care about setting power limits? The answer to that question is the same as the answer to the question you asked.

16 minutes ago, Reciever said:

Cant argue with that analysis.

Especially when it's paid for and does everything you need it to do.

"I'm going to buy a new sofa that is exactly the same color as the one I already have that's in  immaculate condition. I need it just because it's new. I will sell the old one at a loss to help cover the cost."

3 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Well yeah no way AMD is going to stand up on the podium and go, "Yeah we totally screwed the pooch on this one."

They would if they were honorable and cared what people think about them.

Oh wait... We're talking about a tech company... Nevermind.

11 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

3090 Ti isn't that much faster than 3090, yet there was a whopping price jump. This time around, the autoscalped price of the 4090 will help Nvidia launch the 4090 Ti at $2k or more. 

Just a tiny uptick, but only enough to make you realize you got screwed on the 3090, thinking you were buying the best the generation had to offer.
 

NVIDIA: "Surprise! Faked you out, stupid consumer!"

Me: "Surprise! Kiss my butt and die, Green Goblin!"

12 hours ago, electrosoft said:

So it's the actual reference VC causing the problem...

 

I'll have to re-review the WoW data we collected with the Powercolor 7900xtx. It might have been a throttling issue in there too.

 

 

I was going to share that and checked first. I just watched it and thought it was pretty interesting (and sad).

2 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

I don't think it's inflation so much as it is green. DDR ram isn't all that expensive, quality 8 and 12 core cpu's aren't too bad. SSD pricing isn't overwhelming.

After being out of pc tech for 3 years, it's motherboards and gpu's that I've seen skyrocket in cost. When I left, you could get a top of the line AMD board for under $300, now they are 3 times that.

Even Intel motherboards are grossly overpriced. Just a mid-range Strix board will set you back $400-$500 depending on which one you settle for. The only ones priced decently are the chintzy crap models for gamer-kidz that don't care about overclocking. If you want a real enthusiast motherboard, they're generally between $600 and $1100. Asus is the worst at overcharging, which is ironic since theirs are the least reliable and have horribly poor warranty service.

27 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4060 laptop graphics will take a big leap in performance over its predecessor. A wopping 20% performance boost over RTX 3060 laptop graphics. Whats the point with this upgrade if it's true? Bro @Mr. Foxdon't you have the 3060 in your Jokebook? If so, will you jump on a ADA gaming book with the 4060 refresh? 

 

 

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4060 laptop graphics card's 3DMark Time Spy benchmark score leaks online
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Nvidia-GeForce-RTX-4060-laptop-graphics-card-s-3DMark-Time-Spy-benchmark-score-leaks-online.677472.0.html

 

 

No. Half-breed is a 16GB Quadro. Wheezer was 2060.

7 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

LOL now that was a quick OC, damn. 

I haven't really even tuned them yet. Just took an educated guess at some of the settings and there it is. This is on the new EVGA 2.06 beta BIOS. I don't know if they will work this well on 2.03 or 2.05.

7 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

happy 60th soon then! got anything special planned? let us know so we can all come over for the big party 😎🥳🤠

damn dude, retiring at 70 already sounds tough, but extending that by another 5-10 years pretty much seems non-sensical. i mean, statistically speaking, we have 70 healthy years before the aching / illness / old age catches up with us... fingers crossed it wont come to that and ull be able to retire earlier than that! 🙂 

Thank you.  C'mon over. Will make some fajitas and guacamole and wash it down with Chelada.

Yeah, I am not liking that idea about retiring later. I wish I could do it now, but can't afford to. And, Brandon has already destroyed a massive chunk (2-3 years worth of retirement income) of my nest egg with his retarded economic agenda. I have lost almost as much as I made on my 401K while Mr. T was in office.

I got the generic green A-die sticks from AliExpress today.

37 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

ha, really curious if ull be able to resist that temptation until this gen is done for 😄 

Oh, I really want one, but I don't want to spend the money. I don't think they are worth the price they are fetching, and won't believe they are even if temptation overtakes me. I turn 60 in a few weeks, and Sleepy Joe is making things to where retirement may need to be extended an extra 5 or 10 years beyond my planned retirement age of 70. Unless something changes in two years and things get back on track I will have nothing left to retire with and may end up working until I die or can't anymore, so blowing $2K+ on an overpriced GPU every two years probably isn't wise for me. But, yeah... I want one.

2 hours ago, raptorddd said:

personalizing kind of silly.? i am curious what your answer would be if you were that person holding a rifle and there was a law to use lethal force.  thats what you said you are all up for lethal foce. and thats ok thats is you we all think and see different ways.

yes i am an adult now. and also know what is wrong and right. and yes doing wrong must have punishment. am all for an eye for an eye example someone kills get him killed someone rapes have him be raped. just so they feel and live the same fate as other inoocent people suffer.

but on a border to use lethal force thats too much.

am not racist either my brother married white girl. i dont care about skin color or ethnicy the only way to me disklike is how they are or if i am beign attacked.

I think we are on the same page for the most part and you read more into my comments than I intended them to convey. I can understand the sensitivity due to your heritage.  If you militarize the border and make illegal crossing nearly impossible and block it through any means necessary, including lethal force, people will stop crossing illegally because they do not want to be shot. They value their life and are not willing to risk losing it if chances are slim their illegal entry would be successful. In other words, the imminent threat and probability of it become the deterrent unless they are criminals with a death wish.

I think legal entry with approved work visas after a through background check and consent to monitoring/tracking while temporarily here for work, and those pursuing legal citizenship should be an easier process than it is. If the people are willing to work, support themselves, become literate in English, and have something to offer all who are already citizen, yes... 100%. But, not illegally.

To me it is just common sense. Gun control freaks want to outlaw firearms, and the states that are the most torn up by guns are those that have banned or restricted them. I live in an open carry state. It does not end all violence, but when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have them. If someone enters a home without permission, tries to rob a store, or anything else, it is good and just when an armed law-abiding citizen can take the life of the transgressor to preserve their own. They are heroes and should be treated as such. In many liberal states, if you defend yourself or your property using anything (sticks, rocks, knives, bats, guns, martial arts skills, etc.) and cause injury or death, you are subject to prosecution the same as if you are the instigator or perpetrator. In states that do not have such unconstitutional restrictions of personal freedom, you can legally defend yourself and stand your ground. This is a deterrent and it shows in the crime statistics. Criminals that are not stupid sometimes stop to think what might happen to them. Some are not willing to risk having their brains blown out. The stupid ones that have nothing to live for don't stop and think about anything.

@Talon  Beta BIOS Updates for Z690 DARK K|NGP|N (2.06) / CLASSIFIED (2.06)

Quote

Please note that this is a Beta BIOS, but it is stable enough for those of you who wish to test to give it a shot.  
BIOS 2.06 (E699 DARK K|NGP|N / E698 Classified)

• Fixes issue where some software may cause DIMM changed detection.
• Fixes issue where system is unable to shutdown.
• Fixes USB to SPI Flash BIOS error code E1 by EC version R104.
• Adds memory timing RCD_WR for performance tuning. 

A few bug fixes and a new memory timing..

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

I am wondering if it’s gonna be like the 12900KS. Lower SP 12900KS was actually better than higher SP 12900K. 
 

I’ll say the VID’s don’t look very good on it though compared to my SP121 P-Core. 
 

I’m sure Intel test these chips for other abilities and not just SP rating alone. They could scale really well for all we know. I know the 12900KS had a +300Mhz all core boost over the 12900K. That’s huge! But the 13900KS only has a +100Mhz boost over the 13900K. 
 

I believe they launch on January 3rd. Who’s buying one? I think they’ll be awesome because you’re guaranteed at least a better bin. And it’ll clock good enough. SP115+ P-Cores is definitely no slouch. That’s an extremely good 13900K. 

I suspect it will likely not be a straight across SP rating between K and KS. And, you are right. SP rating is not the definitive indicator of a strong CPU that overclocks well. It is a very useful tool, but it is possible to have a CPU with a lower SP rating that performs better and overclocks further than one with a higher SP rating, albeit using more voltage. 

It is not very likely that I will purchase one. I might if the price is close to the same as 13900K, but I probably would not be willing to spend much more than maybe $100 extra for it. Time will tell.

2 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

It is definitely an improvement. Average P-Core SP for 13900K was only like SP106. Now we don’t know if that 13900KS is average or maybe it’s below average. 
 

We’ll have to wait and see. But at least you are guaranteed a better chip with the 13900KS. 

Or it could be (but, hopefully not) better than average. Hopefully, it is a poor sample. A minor improvement should not result in more than a minor price increase... but, I expect we will see more than a minor premium for the "S" variant. This is probably going to suck for people that paid a premium for used 13900K CPUs with a superior bin quality.