Mr. Fox

9 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Feels more like AMD is quietly willing to price up versus really compete for market share. What little they own they want to extract maximum value.

This is new behavior. At least it feels like it. They're never going to win when  they  hire losers. Second fiddle products should have second fiddle prices.

9 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Nvidia is content to keep going as they're going since they control every aspect of the narrative at this point. They have the upper hand and they know it.

This is not new. This is status quo. They're just more emboldened. They're not even trying to conceal their dishonesty anymore.

1 minute ago, Talon said:

 

Damn that is really incredible! 

Thank you. I finally got lucky on the memory silicon quality I think. Even at 8200 with 1.600V on water the sticks are hitting only about 35°C during the memory stress testing.

15 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, bro Fox. I think the 1000D is what I like best with the whole pc. And I don't change this type HW. I keep it several years (the cost will be divided over many years). Same also for the cooling (only a WB swap if needed). All black, nice classic design and with enough space for everything. I worked in my sons new chassis in the christmas holidays. Mid tower and not even the smallest. But all too small box for my likings. You have to think on everything a good while if you want to do changes with your setup. Craamped space is awful. Iould like have a bench table for my hobby, but I hate the cleaning. With what I have now I just use the AC airduster 1 time each month. Taking out the 3 filters every week. Same for cleaning the glass panels. This take 5 min. I have a dog and they drag in a lot dust in the house. Soo there is that. My oldest son said to me before I started buy parts for my new pc.... There ain't other options for you old pa 🙂 

 

But the chassis you have in the post is also very nice. qa big box the way it has to be. The only change I would do is the alu part. Paint it all black. Has to be black bro Fox "All Black" 🙂

Yes, we agree on so many things. 🙂 Not the least of which is the preference for black everything. A few chrome fittings look nice with black though. I have learned the hard way that the black QD fittings stick because of the black finish. The nickel plated QD fittings are slippery and do not have the sticky valve issues. (The auto antifreeze has also helped with that issue, as it is a lubricant.)

11 hours ago, Rage Set said:

I think I am going to settle for the Meshify 2 XL, if I keep the Zenith Extreme II Alpha. I will have tons of room for storage. Unless someone else has an idea for a full tower with storage being a strong feature. I need at least space for 6 HDDs. 

The Meshify 2 XL is a great choice.

If tons of room is important, I really love my Level 20 XT. It has space for everything but the kitchen sink. It is beyond ridiculously massive and with an external radiator setup or your Ice Giant you'll have more space than you can use. It has two HDD caddy's that hold three 3.5 inch HDD sleds each, and there is a removable tray for a 7th 3.5 inch HDD above the PSU on the underside of the mobo tray. In one of the caddy's, I have an optical drive, one HDD and three 2.5 inch SSDs. The second caddy is in my closet.

https://www.newegg.com/black-space-gray-thermaltake-level-20-xt-e-atx-cube-case/p/N82E16811133378

Absolutely ludicrous cavern. And, the horizontal mobo orientation and removable mobo tray is wonderful. All thumbscrews and tool-free. It is so massive I didn't like it at first. It just barely fits on my desk. The feet on the case are very wide (thankfully) and the front feet overhang the front edge of my desk by half of their width.  I have two 200MM fans in front and two 200MM fans in the top, one (included) 140MM fan in the back.

The measurements shown in the last image are totally inaccurate. The accurate measurements (using my tape measure) are 15 inches wide, 25.75 inches deep and 20 inches tall. 

In terms of aesthetics, my favorite case is what Brother @Papusan has, but it is insanely expensive. In my price range, I also really like the 7000D Airflow. I think it is gorgeous.

https://hwbot.org/submission/5162885_

https://hwbot.org/submission/5162883_ | https://valid.x86.fr/4mgpby

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

You forgot add in custom made firmware where they also get the signing keys in hands to tune Sbios/vBios further with help of specialiced persons on this field (only for the very few). They even provide special treatments for PSUs (yep, even custom firmware for the power adapter).

Good points. Forgot about the hulk signing scam thing. 

20 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

So the added FPS with ray tracing enabled is worth $200 extra? Every test I have seen the 4080 is quite a bit slower in rasterization than the xtx. Just curious, because ray tracing was really only a gimmick when first introduced, Has that changed? Does it make much of a difference?

Yeah, it has changed. It's not required, but it does improve game graphics quality and lends a higher sense of realism. If you're not into that, or you're not into gaming, then it doesn't matter. If you're primarily a Linux user then you are better off with an AMD GPU. Recent kernel misbehave badly with NVIDIA GPU for some weird reason.

14 minutes ago, ryan said:

sorry papusan I don't know anything about the 4090ti havent stumbled on info. yeah if its a bump of like 10 percent it wont be worth it unless your a pro overclocker

If you're a real pro overclocker, (or a reviewer shill,) then you'll get cherry-picked parts, and sometimes for free from your sponsors, before any of the pions can buy them. If you're a pion it is predestined and there is nothing you can do about it. You are not "special" and you haven't been selected for the anointing. You'll have the privilege of paying top-dollar for the chance to roll the dice in the silicon lottery.

It is a lot like a pre-arranged boxing match except that you don't get paid to lose when it is your turn to be the loser and someone else is chosen to play the part of the winner. You're just a loser funding the sport with your own money, and nobody is rooting for you because you are a nobody. If you get lucky and land a knock-out punch and take down one of the champs, then you are accused of cheating or your legit victory gets dismissed as a fluke that is declared to not be a valid win. It can't be, because you were not chosen and didn't have the blessing of the ringmaster.

Ain't that right, Brother @johnksss?

26 minutes ago, jcordero said:

When building the most high end desktop (liquid cooling, RTX 4090/A5000, i9 13900k/AMD EPYC, etc) possible that will last you a long time, what do you look for in each of its components (motherboard, power supply, cooler, etc.) when choosing what to buy?

That is a totally loaded question. It really depends on what you want and what you intend to do with it. There is no single right answer.

Gamers that don't care about overclocking buy things like an AMD X3D CPU, drop it in a gamer motherboard, run it stock or with an undervolt, then decide how much they want to spend on a GPU. As long as it plays the games they want to play at a decent framerate without overheating or throttling, they're good to go. This does not require the best and most expensive parts to do that well as long as they are healthy parts. The GPU is the most important component to that type of person, and they generally need less than what all of the marketing hype would suggest. If they buy a high end halo GPU like a 4090 today it should last them at least 4 or 5 years before it struggles with gameplay, longer if they don't expect to max out every available setting. If they go cheap on the GPU, they'll need to update the GPU (with something new or used) every year or two and keep using the rest of the system until a component fails and has to be replaced. Gaming doesn't require expensive CPUs, motherboard or bleeding edge memory. Fast storage and a mid-range GPU will get the job done.

If you're an overclocker that love chasing numbers, there is still no single "right" answer. If you are always trying to beat yourself and set impressive scores, it is a never-ending pursuit of the cutting edge parts that you can push to the edge of functionality. If you are looking to set records for specific hardware, you can do that with old parts and collect hardware points. For example, if you grab a GTX 690 GPU and do hardware/firmware mods and go to great lengths to keep it freakishly cold and install that in a modern high end motherboard with a wicked CPU overclocked to the edge of functionality it will blow away all of the old high scores for a GTX 690 GPU.

If you are a cutting edge hardware junky that craves the best of the best and feel compelled to stay current whether you actually use that hardware for something important, or not, just because that's what floats you boat, then you're just screwed... real bad. You're either filthy rich and blow money without a care in the world about it, or you're in bondage to an addiction that you can't afford. If you're in this last category there is nothing that will ever be good enough because nothing remains static. Today's most insanely expensive parts will be obsolete tomorrow and worth a small fraction of what you paid for it yesterday.

3 hours ago, Ashtrix said:

RTX 4080 12GB - Rebrand a.k.a RTX 4070Ti is getting some flak which is not surprising because overall financials around the planet. I'm glad that some of these reviewers are calling the BS out otherwise they were fine with extreme Nvidia price rises for that 4090 - Full die 3090Ti is costing $1000, while the cut die 4090 at $1500+, while price matching to the outdated mining priced overpriced rubbish 3090 (which is 100% price increase over 3080 for less than 20% gain) is not accurate, nobody mentions this in 4090 and they say it's 3090 mining price and good value BS.

 

Now that's out of way, basically the die size of 4070Ti is very small for it's price bump, they are raking in profits, it's just 294,5 mm² compare to old gen 392 mm² 3070Ti 8GB (which is priced still higher at $700+ AIB) higher performing RX 6800 16GB is 520 mm² is way less around $600 but unfortunately AMD stopped production for RDNA2 as the AIB cards are MIA, really unfortunate as AMD cut the supply a month and half before, as Ampere is also getting dried up pretty fast too.

 

Nvidia is charging the MSRP $800 which is fake because this one does not have FE variant so it's up for grabs by ASUS, MSI, GB which start from $900. Yeah they gave it a memory bump to 12GB from 8GB but the needle is not moving. You can get 3090/Ti  24GB performing around SAME mark or more for literally SAME value, yeah DLSS3 but it's FAKE FPS booster. And for $100 more you can get an RX 7900XTX 24GB that will destroy this card outright for good and in the future it will be a bloodbath. No wonder Nvidia rebranded it and adjusted price by $100.

 

Performance to put it straight, it gets knocked by 7900XT 20GB by a large amount in many titles, sometimes it beats and trades blows with 3090Ti 24GB (which is commendable). But there's an important factor to think here, the VRAM buffer is just lower, so scaling in the future titles might be challenging, because we are at the transition of the Old Gen Xbox One X / PS4 Pro -> XSX / PS5 so new textures and new unoptimization policy of AAA, it will eat up the VRAM fast and esp when enabling RT the VRAM will choke fast which is why on 4K it loses out to 3090Ti just because of sheer bandwidth advantage of 384Bit bus 24GB vs 192Bit bus 12GB. And 7900XT which has 20GB memory buffer and higher Rasterization power.

 

Anyways it will be interesting if it's going to be selling like 4080 or 4090. That is going to decide a lot. Once AMD's new xx50 and Nvidia's Ti / Super launches maybe the price cuts might happen also 2023 crash doomsday plays a role.

 

 

 

 

One more added to the list... based on the benchmarks, at least in this video, the 7900 XTX doesn't really offer much benefit over the 7900 XT (in some cases less to offer) and the 4070 Ti appears to be a closer match to the 7900 XT/XTX performance than the 7900XT/XTX is to matching the 4080 FE.

It is interesting that we don't see comparisons to 3090 because the difference between 3090 and 3090 Ti is too small to matter and the 3090 Ti is/was nearly irrelevant in terms of market share. The bottom line is, if you own a 3090 or 3090 Ti, there is no point in spending any money whatsoever on a GPU upgrade for gaming. There is nothing to be gained from it for gaming. Gaining 10 or 15 FPS when you are already north of 100 FPS for $800 to $1000 is truly idiotic.

If you want to run benchmarks and legitimately feel like you are benefitting from spending a buttload of money, then the only real option for a 3090/3090Ti owner is to blow a significant portion of your monthly income (more than what is disposable income for most people) on a 4090.

If you own something less than a 3080, then any of these GPUs are a legit but overpriced upgrade.

It is unfortunate that we don't see any AIB options for NVIDIA GPUs with 3 or 4 of the legacy 8-pin power connectors. I don't want an AMD GPU, but I like the fact that they did not adopt the new 12-pin cable.

1 hour ago, ryan said:

At that price is does seem tempting, I will be playing chess/pool/grid autosport and thats about it for gaming. As for other tasks I read a bit, NBT, youtube, and disney plus. I think I might buy one, not a big financial risk. I was also just thinking of just using the smart apps on my tv(google STV) and getting a wireless keyboard and mouse. and picking up a tablet.

I have not tested streaming with Steam games, but I will. I suspect it will work as well as, or probably  much better than, a Steam Link or NVIDIA Shield (both of which are utterly anemic products in terms of computing power). So, you shoud be able to use it fine for remote-play gaming in that manner, even with more demanding AAA titles, as long as the host PC is powerful and you have a strong network connection.

I have this for use with the TV and it is also a really good option that costs very little, especially with the 20% off code. The entire top surface is metal and it feels solid and heavy. It is a much better product than the similar Logitech keyboard+touchpad it replaced. The Logitech device was flimsy plastic garbage. I hate using a touchpad, but for the limited scenarios like punching in a password using a TV it is way better than pressing buttons on a remote a bazillion time to navigate an idiotic on-screen keyboard.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FSKZVRG

6 hours ago, electrosoft said:

That looks really nice. I have liked that case since the first time I saw it. It looks great. The only thing that holds me back from buying one is the limited space at the top. I have been tempted multiple times, but I remind myself that I have the same issue with the 5000D Airflow.

I do not understand why the stupid people that design enthusiast and gamer focused PC cases cannot see how detrimental it is to limit that space in such an idiotic way. If someone is worried about it being "too big" they would not be looking at a full tower case. I find that not being able to install a fat 360mm+ radiator under the top panel sandwiched between fans in push/pull and still having plenty of space for reaching in to connect fan, RGB and EPS cables with ease is just inexcusable from a design standpoint. But, it seems to be a very common lack of intelligence among many brands and models.

20 minutes ago, ryan said:

well done video. i was wondering if i should keep my laptop and get a small mini pc for my tv. im in denial about gaming. i dont really game much

Thanks. If you already have a monitor or plan to use it on a TV set for audio and video and web browsing, I can't identify a cheaper option for no-frills basic computing. Using something that sucks is less painful when it costs so little. The normal pricing of a NUC is absurd and not a good value. But, for less than $200 including tax it is hard to find  too much to complain about as long as you're not expecting anything amazing.

If you're going to go BGA, best to go cheap. It's the only way of getting more than you expected. This one costs less than half what most of these little turdboxes typically sell for at $169 with $30 coupon applied, LOL. Make your TV a PC. https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0BMX9NK6Y

The thought of buying any modern laptop is much like what I would imagine the experience of eating a piece of dog doo would be like. Disgusting. And, the idea that it would be an Alienware turdbook is like washing it down with a glass of warm cat pee. I can't think of anything nice to say about laptops in general, and only expletives come to mind when I think of the Alienware brand regardless of the form factor.

2 hours ago, ryan said:

 

you need 18392

 

but @Papusanill send you a 100 dollar gift card on the 10th of jan just pm..and let it be known if you can top papusan ill get you any game or a 100 dollar gift card on the 10th...all major NBT bros are welcome to join

Is it a coincidence where you have positioned Superposition on your screen, or strategic?

34 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Tonight's fun time project..... (Not the $100 new open box special Asus Z590-E binning board. It is already installed in my test case).

 

That's a solid motherboard (same as I am running in my work desktop) with the only Achilles heel being the 6400 limit on RAM overclocking. I have tested about 6 different pairs of UDIMMs in it (including the A-die) and in every case anything above 6400 produces errors and random BSODs. It's solid at 6400 though. It will boot and bench with M-die at 6800, 7000 and 7200, but fails all memory tests with errors.

Edit: Sorry, that is a Z590-E. I looked at it wrong, mine is Z690-E.

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

3 real Jokes today. Pink graphics cards, 4090@80w laptop Gpu and 1000$ 4070Ti desktop graphics card. This is pervers.

 

 

We start with the Pink. Want a Pink graphics card bro @Mr. Fox? Its an Galax. Or will you wait to see if Galax push out a Pink 4090? 

 

GALAX announces GeForce RTX 4070 Ti graphics cards, including the first pink RTX 40 GPU
https://videocardz.com/newz/galax-announces-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-graphics-cards-including-the-first-pink-rtx-40-gpu

 

 

4090@80W graphics card so the gamers can brag about 4090 in their thin and flimsy gaming books with an USB-C charger.

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-announces-geforce-rtx-40-laptop-gpu-series-rtx-4090-with-9728-cudas-and-16gb-gddr6-memory

 

Yep, close to $1000 USD for a mid range graphics card. 4080 isn't the only card to avoid! All cards below 4090 is to be avoided. Same for the boiling Radeon 7900 series from AMD. 

 

Colorful introduces GeForce RTX 4070 Ti graphics cards for up to $969
https://videocardz.com/press-release/colorful-introduces-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-graphics-cards-for-up-to-969

 

 

What? So now we have anime, manga, pink, white and black. No yellow? What about a brony edition? And, no rainbow "pride" option? I am so offended.

They must be racists.  I'm going to upload a TikTok video to express my rage.

I am waiting for the 4060 Ti @ 5W TGP for Chromebook. That will run my favorite PopCap games without stuttering. Bejeweled will be better than ever.

On that note...

21 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

sigh yeah thats the thing with tech & science....by itself completely neutral, just depends what u do with it. can go either way, from saving humanity to destroying it.

It seems like science has been redefined as a blind acceptance of information that is assumed to be factual based primarily upon whatever is a most popular agenda in secular atheistic social media circles. We've seen many recent examples of tyrannical rule by decree and fiat under a façade dubbed "science" by unworthy authorities and plain old goofed up weirdos.

1 minute ago, jaybee83 said:

might be something as innocuous as them being able to access a wider range of CPUs as time passes and thus adjusting their algo for calculating the SP. 

I suspect that is exactly what it is, and it is the only logical explanation. That is why I speculated about the undocumented backdoor telemetry thing. I do wonder what other information they might be collecting without disclosing it. Probably worse than we think. We live in a very dangerous era where techological capabilities do more to support criminal behavior and unethical, overbearing government than what is contributed to the betterment of society.

2 hours ago, Custom90gt said:

@Mr. Foxwhere did you end up picking up those sticks?  I see Newegg has them, but for $350 a stick, lol. 

Yeah, that is totally ludicrous and another example of scalping. Splave was selling them on HWBOT Forum for $500 a pair, which is also insane. I got them on AliExpress for $131.00 each. I love that they easily run 8000 MT/s,  but the M-die sticks that I paid $80 each for are still a better value overall. 
 

Here:  New 16GB HMCG78AGBUA081N DDR5 5600B Desktop Memory Overfrequency 8000+

I will probably offer the 12900KS and those M-die sticks for sale as a package deal in the marketplace in case anyone here is ready for an affordable upgrade.

1 hour ago, Ashtrix said:

Yeah, also I think we need to see V/F offsets more than just SP rating.

I've never viewed the SP rating as reliable for the reasons previously stated. If it were reliable, it wouldn't change with firmware modifications, and it would be calculated based on physical attributes of a CPU. Unfortunately, it is the only measurement we have other than the MSI Force2 and they're not compatible, and they're only useful if you buy a brand and model that incorporates it. 

1 hour ago, Ashtrix said:

ASUS is a fallen company. It's a miracle that their boards work maybe their BIOS Engineers and HW division is the only one keeping it alive. Maybe all of them have some issues if we see forums of MSI, EVGA, GB but ASUS is way too popular and nowadays their QC is awful. Proof is above episode which is still not resolved for Z590.

I wonder how much longer the ROG line will remain popular and relevant. There has to come a point when people stop buying defective products that lack respectable QC just because their firmware has a lot of obscure and undocumented menu items that nobody understands or benefit from. It is both ironic and sad that their least reliable products are their most expensive halo models that should be approaching perfection, but the shoddy warranty service applies to their entire product line. I see what feels like a growing sense of disapproval of the brand. I think it eventally has to catch up with them. Word of mouth reputation is usually what decides the fate of a business. And, their broken trash like Armory Crate and Aura certainly doesn't win them any extra points with the kiddos. They need their rainbow puke software to work.

43 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Massive SP change in action....today finally installing this Asus Strix Z590-E in my testing case after the worst December of my life (understatement):

 

Before BIOS 0902

 

 

After BIOS 1701

 

 

Wow, that is an even bigger change than I saw. Massive change, in fact. Interesting that firmware can change something that much. In a way, it tends to dilute confidence in the reliability of the SP measurement. It can be manipulated if ASUS is influenced by external forces or ever decides to take on an agenda of some sort. I bet that CPU Brother@Clamibotpurchased from me would also have a really high SP rating now compared to what the firmware said it was when I last checked it.

ASUS must have some sort of backdoor telemetry gathering data from all of the systems connected to the internet with a relevant mobo/chipset. If that is the case, I wonder what other data they are gathering. If not, then it begs the question of how they are getting the information that would cause the change over time.

Glad to see you are on the mend. You must be starting to feel better now if you were able to muster the time and effort for this. 

4 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

how much of a thermal improvement do those custom RAM heatsinks provide bro fox?

Huge improvement. More than a 30% reduction in maximum temperature and enough to make the difference between passing memory stability tests and failing them. As you can see in that screenshot, I ran TestMem Pro for 1 hour (200%) and maxed out at under 35°C at 8000MHz and 1.500V on the memory. Without the waterblock temps are generally around 42°C. With your normal gamerkid RGB memory with the fancy heatsinks heating blankets I would see above 55°C at 6800 and 1.450V. Memory errors begin to occur and you start losing stability around 45°C on DDR4 and DDR5. DDR5 gets hotter and gets hotter faster because of the much higher clock speeds compared to DDR4.

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

I've been a diehard WoW player since launch and I've played since Jan 2005 so it is my mainstay and metric for performance. I've never played at less than 2560x1600 resolution even back then as my rig was an Apple Dual G5 tower w/ an Apple 30" display but as time has passed so has the increase in graphics and CPU requirements as the engine has gone through 4 major upgrades that require current content to really take advantage. The last major upgrade was the Battle for Azeroth Xpac where it got a major rewrite then Shadowlands where they added in 1st gen RT. Dragonflight extends that a bit more.

I knew that about you. Even your wife is a WoW fan if I remember correctly.  It is awesome that you've been a fan and playing since launch. I am much the same way with the Crysis Franchise.  I used to be with CoD as well, but they strayed from the path enough that I am no longer interested in the last couple of installments to the franchise.

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

On the other hand, lest we forget the 3090ti can still bring the pain....

 

I said it before and I'll say it again. If you have a 3090/3090ti the only real upgrade is a 4090.

 

 

Indeed. And, that is with the 7900 XTX core clock roughly 500 MHz higher than the 3090 Ti.

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Always hard to find real, valid WoW or FO76 testing/comparison between cards. Hardware Numb3rs seems to have gotten real spotty posting lately which was my go to for WoW benchmarks. Hopefully he gets something up sooner than later.

Is it because of the passion you have for WoW and FO76, which makes it particularly meaningful on a personal level, that you look specifically for those comparisons; or, something about those particular titles that taxes a GPU in a "Can it run Crysis?" kind of way? 

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

OK, I think I got this dialed in now for my 24/7 overclock. It's so easy to run these generic green A-die sticks at 8000 MT/s. It's ludicrous in light of how many retail kits I RMA'd with RGB rainbow vomit and sloppy loose gamerkidz XMP profiles that cost double, were pure garbage and would barely even boot at speeds like this. Consumers are getting screwed real hard.

The generic green M-die was also vastly superior to the retail craptastick options. I thought that one of my pairs of M-die was slightly better than the other (which would not be surprising) and did more testing with the 13900K back in the Strix Z690-E and they're actually extremely close to the same. I got a good deal on a 13900KF for the Strix and will be selling my nice 12900KS sample that was the same SP92 rating as the one @Papusanhas. I saw no improvement whatsoever in memory overclocking, which was the reason I bought it.

Well... as it turns out, the 6400 brick wall is actually a physical limitation of the Strix mobo. I never looked at the documentation until yesterday. And, yup... dammit... that is the highest supported RAM speed. It will boot and run (benchable) up 7200, but not stable to matter what voltage or timings I have tested. Stablity goes out the door as soon as I move from 6400 to 6600. I knew it was a gamerboy product and it is totally fine for my work computer, for sure. But, I was surprised to find 6400 is the maximum supported memory clock.

Also interesting, my 13900K SP rating is higher than I thought. When I originally tested it in the Strix mobo it was SP95. Now it is SP103 with a significant improvement on the E-cores (from 73 to 83). The 13900KF is almost identical at SP102 (both are SP113 on P-cores, with SP81 on the KF E-cores). So, that was my real Christmas present. I wondered why my 13900K seemed so good with a mediocre SP rating. Apparently the BIOS on the Strix at that time was not dialed in correctly for 13900K. It was the first BIOS version for 13th Gen when it told me my CPU was only SP95. 

OK, I think I got this dialed in now for my 24/7 overclock. It's so easy to run these generic green A-die sticks at 8000 MT/s. It's ludicrous in light of how many retail kits I RMA'd with RGB rainbow vomit and sloppy loose gamerkidz XMP profiles that cost double, were pure garbage and would barely even boot at speeds like this. Consumers are getting screwed real hard.

5 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Are people stupid bro @Ashtrix @Mr. Fox?

Yes. Yes, they are.

So are the people testing and reporting on the "progress" LOL. Plenty of Kool-Aid to go around... bottomless supply of it for the bottom feeders. Their graph shows PL1/PL2 set at 253W. Why? Maybe because they only want partial performace? Or, maybe because it lowers the bar so that Windows 10 and 11 look equal? What would the graph look like with 4095W for PL1/PL2, and why do people even care about setting power limits? The answer to that question is the same as the answer to the question you asked.