Mr. Fox

Scores in what? I can't tell what benchmark or measurement we are speaking about.

No, the Gigabyte 4090 I purchased was like that on the air cooler as well. It ran freakishly cool on the air cooler. Unlike anything I had seen before. Installing the water block had little effect on temperatures. The benefit will only be obvious using chilled water. Having a vapor chamber with lots of heat pipes and a good fin stack does a fantastic job as long as the ambient temperatures are low. If you are in a hot environment it might not be adequate. Both of my 4090s have excellent memory overclocking. The Strix 4090 was trash. The Gigabyte 4090 easily handles +1500 (maybe more, haven't tried yet) and the 4090 Suprim +1700.

Awesome. Glad to hear you got a solid sample. I am not sure what is going on with your text. Did you copy and paste from somewhere else? The color of the font is almost the same as the background and I have to highlight the text to read it. This happens with things @Papusanposts often as well. I have to change to the ugly white eyeball-searing default unisex theme to read the text or highlight it with my mouse. In the post quoted above I cut the text from the post and pasted it again as plain text. Screenshot below shows what I see with the original formatting using the forum Dark Bravo 6 theme.

Correct. That is the part we do not know yet. Because it is made by EK I expect the build quality to be superior, but whether it works well is to be determined. Under most circumstances it would be safe to assume if it is made by EK it is going to be excellent (fittings, radiators, etc.) but things like this require very precise fit, with some degree of flexibility for variance between installation scenarios without losing any performance. It is more difficult to execute. And, it has to be idiot-proof, easy to install and with good instructions so that an average user can install it without breaking anything. Alienware provides a good example of excellent build quality with poor performance and flawed design.

As you may recall, I had one. The issue was not build quality. The problem was the block not making proper contact with the die. If I had to guess what went wrong, they were probably exercising more caution than they should have to avoid the block putting too much pressure on the die and breaking it, and that caused contact to be insufficient in some installations. Even Kit Guru had to mill down their test prototype to obtain proper die contact because of that. I could see the fear of inexperienced users breaking their CPUs by improper installation might be a concern for them, but it needs to work right and working right requires solid contact and enough pressure to compress the CPU into the socket firmly, not barely making contact or not at all. Some people had good results with theirs and others (like me) had terrible results. They released an updated CPU frame and cold plate that I understand corrected the problem. I did not want to deal with the nonsense of them releasing a product that was not ready and needed more work, so I opted for a refund instead of playing the part of guinea pig. Time will tell if they learned what they needed to change and corrected their mistakes on the AIO. If they did, then this direct die AIO should be a great product. If they did not, it will be evident right away. This is a very much-needed product and I hope they made it right so that the block makes good contact with the die. If it works well, this will be a real game-changer for a lot of people and copycat products will likely follow. The release of a direct die AIO is long overdue. I am happy to see them making the effort. I'm sure that an AM5 version would be appreciated by our AMD friends as well.

I am not sure how our wives would feel about that. I'm sure she is a wonderful woman, but I'm probably as attached to mine as you are to yours. Hard to beat 38 years of familiarity and friendship, even if they prefer different beverages than we do. I wonder if EK ever figured out what they did wrong on the bare die thing. I am wondering if the newly launched EK Nucleus CR360 Bare Die AIO would work well in the midget monster. That is also an interesting prototype LGA 1700 heat spreader made like the one Roman made for AM5. It replaces the ILM and IHS. Looks like between 15-20°C temperature reduction with the bare die AIO.

My wife loves coffee and she can drink it black all day long. I do not care for the smell or taste of it. If I drink coffee it has to be loaded with flavoring additives, about half cream and lots of artificial sweetener. Or, with melted caramel and vanilla ice cream added. Then it is like liquid candy and doesn't resemble coffee any more. But, I drink almost exclusively cold beverages, even when I am in a cold climate. When I was in Chicago a few weeks ago and it was sub-zero temperatures I was drinking iced tea, diet Dr. Pepper and diet Coke, even at breakfast.

The Unify-X was an excellent motherboard. It's sad they never released a newer Z790 version of it. The Z690 Unify-X and Gigabyte Z690 Tachyon were their best motherboards, but finding either of them for sale is rare. Even more rare than the Z790 Apex (white). I don't understand why. They could easily sell every one they made if they made more of them. This tiny little MSI MPG Z790i Edge is better at memory overclocking than more expensive 4-DIMM motherboards more than twice its size.

I see what you did there. Mine are not crocs, but still black. Other than tubing, both of us like most things in black. Even though I live in Arizona, my skin stays very white all year, just like my PC lighting. But not as white as my socks. I don't like black coffee though. Come to think of it, I just don't like coffee, period. So, doing a little bit of analyzing, the SP96 14900K that I purchased from @Talonis extremely close to my SP108 13900KS on both P-cores and E-cores. I am not confident that the MCSP actually has much bearing on things as it seems to be a somewhat unreliable measurement with variance. That 13900KS has an MCSP83 while the 14900K is MCSP78, so that remains to be seen. (I don't actually have it yet, just adjusting my Apex BIOS settings to match the BIOS screenshots he provided and then comparing the numbers on the AI and VF screens.) Give or take about 5mV... 13900KS P120 = 14900K P104 13900KS E84 = 14900K E80 Tinkering the the MSI BIOS has been interesting. The "Dynamic" CPU clock feature disables Turbo Boost and EIST and locks the cores at a given clock. The CPU runs cooler and performs better with "Dynamic" enabled. I discovered that purely by accident because the settings are on different menus and seeing that they are directly related was accidental. I was trying to figure out why Turbo Boost and EIST were disabled and greyed out. When I changed the CPU clock behavior from "Fixed" to "Dynamic" those became "Enabled" (still greyed out). My temperatures went down and Cinebench R23 score went up. And, my VRM MOS and Stage temps went down.

I used one just like that for many years in my work that required taking 8 or 10 dozen photos every day. The floppy disk went into a plastic sleeve in each file.

Oh yeah. Way better. That does look good. You have a very nice looking rig, Brother @Raiderman.

I am excited for you, brother. If the stock air cooler on the Suprim is as good as the one on the Gigabyte 4090 the waterblock won't change much with ambient water, but with cooled water it will make a gigantic difference that would not be possible with the air cooler. I was actually suprised to find the idle and load temperatures were almost identical using ambient air with the side panel removed from the case. There is also the benefit of the waterblock taking up about 60-75% less room than the air cooler, which is a compelling benefit all by itself.

That looks very nice from what I can tell, but the image is only a 320x240 thumbnail so it is hard to see any detail.

I think generation has nothing to do with it. The reasons some of us avoid Target is because of woke policies that are driven at the corporate level that are designed to appeal to an extremely liberal view that caters to less than 1% of the national population, similar to what we saw with Budweiser. Target is a nice store in terms of organization and cleanliness. Their prices (where I live) are much higher than Walmart, so I probably would not go there even if the corporate leadership was not woke. If the retailer has something I want at a price that is better than I can get anywhere else I will buy from them no matter what the goofballs in their ivory tower think, but I won't shop there regularly because I don't want to support that perspective. At the end of the day, none of the world's corporations are "good" and they all reflect the values (or lack thereof) of the individuals with the power to call the shots for the corporation. Truth be told, I think Sam Walton would turn over in his grave if he could see what they're doing to his wonderful creation today (as would Walt Disney). The views of those in the ivory tower also does not necessarily reflect those of the people who work there that are trying to provide for their families. Chances are good that most of those employed do not ascribe to the woke worldview because it is a paganistic minority view that has been forced into controversy by the insane mainstream media machine and insane public educators in a feeble effort to manipulate public opinion. I do not remember ever buying any computer components or electronics from Target. I have purchased some from Walmart when the price was equal or less than what I could buy the same component elsewhere, but that is not frequent.

Walmart does that as well. It is harder for them to track if you pay for everything using cash. Not sure if that has any effect at Best Buy, but it obviously would not on Amazon because you can't use cash online. Amazon has done that to me as well. In fact, if I return this second CPU I am expecting a nasty-gram from them. They have done that to me before when I returned two GPUs that had crappy memory overclocking. I return worthless garbage made in China that doesn't work right fairly often, but it is cheap stuff.

I almost never shop at Best Buy because they rarely sell anything I am looking to purchase. I seldom purchase any kind of electronics, appliances or anything else they sell, and they generally do not offer enthusiast-grade PC components. Other than a 12700KF a few years ago, I have purchased a TV and JBL soundar in 2015, a TV in about 1998, and maybe a dozen USB flash drives from them. I will wait to hear from Brother @Talonand find out if the SP96 has strong E-cores and MC. I will probably be past the return window for the 14900KF when the KS drops, so if his is better than this I'll probably buy it and get my money back on this horrid sample.

I am wondering if I buy a 14900K from Best Buy if they will give me any pushback if I return one or more garbage samples. Or, if I buy three at once and one or none are good and I return the trash samples (or all three).

Doing further testing, it cannot even run 8200 stable the IMC is so goofed up. And, it needs 1.325V to run 55x on P-cores stable and still hits 101°C. I'm going to have to send it back. Seems there might not be any more "normal" 14900K/KF. I am skeptical now that the KS will be any better than some of the better 14900K. My SP108 13900KS puts this to shame.

Thank you. Hopefully, it's something much better than this 14900KF, which SADLY, is better than both of the 14900Ks that I returned.

It won't work. It's too weak. I've already done extensive testing with manual voltages and it's just a turd. This is the extent of its capabilities.

The memory controller on this CPU is also crap. Looks like it maxes out at 8200. It freezes and blue screens with "Memory Management" STOP error running TM5 above 8200 even with sloppy timings and 1.650V. I may end up putting this into the mini-ITX system since the most its cooling system can handle is 56xP/46xE/8000 and move the SP108 13900KS back into the Apex. I think the likelihood of buying a decent 14900K right now is equal to a snowball's chance in hell and I am not paying more than new retail price for a good used one.

I cannot find any EPDM rubber tubing for as little as I pay for my clear tubing. I pay less than $1.75 per foot for the good stuff and about $1.50 per foot for the stiff industrial stuff that I use to run long lengths of tubing to the chiller. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-2-in-I-D-x-3-4-in-O-D-x-10-ft-Clear-Vinyl-Tubing-T10006011/304185143 Everbilt industrial tubing @ $1.25/ft https://www.performance-pcs.com/water-cooling/water-tubing-soft-hard/pvc-soft-tubing/mayhems-ultra-clear-tubing-1-2-x-3-4-13-19mm-tubing-mct13-19-30.html Mayhems Ultra Clear tubing @ $1.49/ft I returned both of the worthless garbage 14900K for refunds. I ordered a 14900KF and it is better on P-cores and MC is OK, but the E-cores seems to be pure trash (SP70). They run at 46x fine, but system locks up with 47x even with an ungodly amount of voltage. So, I guess this turd is going back, too. I could get by with this for the P-core, but the E-core issue is just trash. I don't know what to do at this point. Don't know if I should order another and return this if the next one is not as bad, or just delid it and go bare die and live with garbage E-cores. Edit: I just discovered it cannot run my 8600 memory profile. Not going to keep it. Amazon is getting it back. Or, worse case scenario it will go into the mini-ITX since it can't run 8600. @Talon is your SP96 14900K as good on P-cores and better on E-cores? What are the individual SP ratings? If so, if you want to sell it send me a PM to let me know what you want for it and I may send this back.

This is only a matter of personal preference. They don't need to be "close" and I am not sure how to even measure that. I want clear tubing and I don't want to pay a lot for it. EPDM rubber tubing costs more than I am willing to spend. EPDM doesn't make my system faster, run cooler, or provide any other benefit that I can measure. I would buy it if I wanted my tubing to be black and not see-through. It's not that I do not like it. I do like it. I think it looks really good. But, it's just as simple as I want clear tubing so I can see what is happening in any part of my loop. And, I like how clear tubing looks. And, I like not spending a lot of money on tubing.

What @Papusansaid. The range of "acceptable" is too broad and includes too many samples that are us such poor quality they are nearly unusable due to extreme low quality silicon that needs tons of voltage. These should be culled and sold at a lower price, or relabeled as an inferior product. Normal price should only apply to those in the median/average range and higher. The silicon lottery should net you nothing, ever, below median/average when you buy the flagship model of anything. This should apply and be legally required of Intel, AMD and NVIDIA.

Mr. Rossman thinks the way a lot of us do. It is absurd and unfortunate that product fanboys defend trash, and it's why the minority we are part of have to put up with garbage. Between fanboys defending incompetence and stupid consumers not having the ability to recognize it, that makes us appear to be the problem for having what they dismiss as unreasonable expectations. It's comical seeing fanboys (overclock.net) defend the defective 14900K CPUs that I am returning because they are of totally unacceptable quality and unfit for distribution. I don't care if the product is made by Intel, AMD, NVIDIA or some other company, we should call the balls and strikes and show no mercy in terms of rejecting their bottom-of-the-barrel garbage product samples. Return it and let an idiot that doesn't know any better use it, or let the retailer remove it from circulation (the right choice). Not my problem and I'm not using my money to pay for trash. Poor bin quality only victimizes end users because they sell the defective garbage for the same price as the average and better samples. I terminate employees routinely that deliver below average performance. And, they deserve it due to poor performance. Some of them are nice people, but the employer and its patrons spending money deserve something better than below average. There is no reason to treat an inanimate product better than a human being.