*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

1 minute ago, Raiderman said:

After reading a lot of reviews, most think RT is a bit over hyped considering the FPS hit you take when its enabled. To me, it seems more like a marketing gimmick and less of a necessity. Am I wrong?

I think so. While ray tracing is not necessary for a game to be enjoyable, the visual quality enhancement is nothing short of remarkable. Far more realistic graphics than without it. It doesn't make a fun game more fun or a boring game less boring. I never choose a game because it has it, but the difference it makes in the graphics quality is undeniable. If you have not been exposed a whole lot to it, then it is hard to relate to and easy to dismiss.

[ryan]

delete mr fox answered first lol....fastest trigger fingers in the world

[electrosoft]

21 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

After reading a lot of comments, most think RT is a bit over hyped considering the FPS hit you take when its enabled. To me, it seems more like a marketing gimmick and less of a necessity. I guess Im not the huge gamer I used to be. Am I wrong?

 

17 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I think so. While ray tracing is not necessary for a game to be enjoyable, the visual quality enhancement is nothing short of remarkable. Far more realistic graphics than without it. It doesn't make a fun game more fun or a boring game less boring. I never choose a game because it has it, but the difference it makes in the graphics quality is undeniable. If you have not been exposed a whole lot to it, then it is hard to relate to and easy to dismiss.

 

 

Depends on the title and settings but RT is here and will continue to grow in importance and adoption.

 

Do you need RT to play a game? No, but then again you don't need high graphics settings or resolution either. If just playing the game is the standard, set it to 720p, low everything and have it run on almost everything from the last 10yrs.

 

For example, when I was in between cards a few years ago, I was limping along with my GTX 1060 playing at 4k in WoW on low settings. Playable? Yes but visually an eye sore compared to how it can and should look for the full immersive experience and lush visuals. When I got my KPE 3090 and installed it and cranked everything back up it was like night and day for enjoyment and beauty. A month or so on that GTX 1060 just dialed in how I like to play my games. I want everything presented as intended by the devs no compromises when able.

 

Unreal engine 5 is going to be the backbone for a vast majority of games and it is all about RT along with Raster. Even new games built from the ground up are setting a foundation on RT. Older titles are getting overhauls with RT enabled features where able.

 

But like I said, if just being able to play the game is the high bar, you can dial everything down to the lowest settings, drop the resolution as low as it will go and play on a tin can. 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Clamibot]

1 hour ago, ryan said:

theres a new demo to push 4090 to its limits and is visually state of the art as far as realtime rendering.

 

 

 

 

That is absolutely incredible graphical fidelity from a virtual 3D environment. I'm a sucker for photorealistic graphics and wish all games looked like this, although that's just my preference as photorealism is the art style I like. I'm excited to see what future games will be like.

[Rage Set]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

 

 

Depends on the title and settings but RT is here and will continue to grow in importance and adoption.

 

Do you need RT to play a game? No, but then again you don't need high graphics settings or resolution either. If just playing the game is the standard, set it to 720p, low everything and have it run on almost everything from the last 10yrs.

 

For example, when I was in between cards a few years ago, I was limping along with my GTX 1060 playing at 4k in WoW on low settings. Playable? Yes but visually an eye sore compared to how it can and should look for the full immersive experience and lush visuals. When I got my KPE 3090 and installed it and cranked everything back up it was like night and day for enjoyment and beauty. A month or so on that GTX 1060 just dialed in how I like to play my games. I want everything presented as intended by the devs no compromises when able.

 

Unreal engine 5 is going to be the backbone for a vast majority of games and it is all about RT along with Raster. Even new games built from the ground up are setting a foundation on RT. Older titles are getting overhauls with RT enabled features where able.

 

But like I said, if just being able to play the game is the high bar, you can dial everything down to the lowest settings, drop the resolution as low as it will go and play on a tin can. 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While I agree with RT becoming a standard in gaming, companies are going around Nvidia implementation or rather, vision of RT. UE5 doesn't use Nvidia's RT cores natively. If you read this article by Nvidia about UE5 - https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/building-the-future-of-real-time-graphics-with-nvidia-and-unreal-engine-5-1/  you will notice it mentions Lumen. 

 

Lumen is actually a neutral take on RT....a lot like AMD's take on RT. https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/lumen-global-illumination-and-reflections-in-unreal-engine/

 

What does this all mean? RT's future performance and interpretation may come to an "open standard", something that Nvidia does not want. Akin to G-Sync finally aligning itself more to the AMD's freesync. In the future, paying the Nvidia tax for RT performance could be like paying for a G-Sync Ultimate monitor vs a Freesync Premium monitor that works just as well.   

[ryan]

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/unreal-engine-5

https://gameassetsfree.com/assets/103525-mw-dune-desert-landscape-4-26-unreal-engine/

 

I would download it but im afraid my 3060 could only handle it at 480p

 

maybe one of you are interested in testing your 4090 with it, if not its waiting here

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/profile/MAWI+United+GmbH?count=20&sortBy=effectiveDate&sortDir=DESC&start=0

[Etern4l]

5 hours ago, ryan said:

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/unreal-engine-5

https://gameassetsfree.com/assets/103525-mw-dune-desert-landscape-4-26-unreal-engine/

 

I would download it but im afraid my 3060 could only handle it at 480p

 

maybe one of you are interested in testing your 4090 with it, if not its waiting here

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/profile/MAWI+United+GmbH?count=20&sortBy=effectiveDate&sortDir=DESC&start=0

 

Supports Linux... Tempting!

[Custom90gt]

My buddy is going to put together an unraid plex server with a 12600k + ASUS Z690-PLUS TUF Gaming WiFi D5 motherboard from MC (seems like a great value at $296 since the MB is only $50).  Memory speed really doesn't matter too much, but figured I'd ask what people recommend here. Cost is priority number 1, but if I could get him something with hynix memory I'd prefer that. I think the cheap patriot DDR5 on amazon has hynix and is around $100 for 32GB.  Any other thoughts?

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, Custom90gt said:

My buddy is going to put together an unraid plex server with a 12600k + ASUS Z690-PLUS TUF Gaming WiFi D5 motherboard from MC (seems like a great value at $296 since the MB is only $50).  Memory speed really doesn't matter too much, but figured I'd ask what people recommend here. Cost is priority number 1, but if I could get him something with hynix memory I'd prefer that. I think the cheap patriot DDR5 on amazon has hynix and is around $100 for 32GB.  Any other thoughts?

If that Hynix memory is M-die for $100 it is a steal at that price. Even with a mediocre motherboard and average CPU you should be able to overclock it manually to around 6400 stable. The max stable memory overclock on the Strix Z690-E is 6400 with M-die, A-die and Samsung B-die (based on my extensive testing) and it is what Asus product documentation states as the supported maximum. There is no point in spending more for high-end modules when the functional limit of the motherboard does not allow you to use it.

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, Custom90gt said:

My buddy is going to put together an unraid plex server with a 12600k + ASUS Z690-PLUS TUF Gaming WiFi D5 motherboard from MC (seems like a great value at $296 since the MB is only $50).  Memory speed really doesn't matter too much, but figured I'd ask what people recommend here. Cost is priority number 1, but if I could get him something with hynix memory I'd prefer that. I think the cheap patriot DDR5 on amazon has hynix and is around $100 for 32GB.  Any other thoughts?

 

28 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

If that Hynix memory is M-die for $100 it is a steal at that price. Even with a mediocre motherboard and average CPU you should be able to overclock it manually to around 6400 stable. The max stable memory overclock on the Strix Z690-E is 6400 with M-die, A-die and Samsung B-die (based on my extensive testing) and it is what Asus product documentation states as the supported maximum.

Hynix M-die is a safe bet on Z690. Less finky and if you manage 6400 on M-die you need above 7600 for A-die to get about same/equal performance. And 100$ for 32GB is a good price for Hynix 7600 A-die speed.

[ryan]

bought a motherboard

 

now to put in the gfx card

 

i think ill figure it out, just need the right cables and power supply. anyone know where a good place to buy a case is? need to tie this all together

 

 

metaphor

 

its how i feel compared to your guys vast knowledge

[Mr. Fox]

5 minutes ago, ryan said:

bought a motherboard

 

now to put in the gfx card

 

i think ill figure it out, just need the right cables and power supply. anyone know where a good place to buy a case is? need to tie this all together

 

 

metaphor

 

its how i feel compared to your guys vast knowledge

A PC that looks like a toaster would probably be something that some people would go for. It would be ironic for it to have thermal management problems if the case looks like a toaster.

 

The concept of a toaster is very fitting for modern laptops based upon how they (mis)behave, LoL.

[ryan]

yeah I thought it was perfect..my laptop is driving me crazy. 90c-100c at 3.7ghz lol it supposedly goes up to 5ghz..im sure if I put it in my fridge It would run close to 5ghz. gpu doesnt seem to budge no matter the temps. I really need to get into desktops.

 

also Id like to add

 

one of these

 

is like 

 

1280 of these

 

times have changed, and now im kinda nervous about ai, things are moving so fast. makes ones head spin

[Papusan]

7 hours ago, ryan said:

bought a motherboard

 

now to put in the gfx card

 

i think ill figure it out, just need the right cables and power supply. anyone know where a good place to buy a case is? need to tie this all together

 

 

metaphor

 

its how i feel compared to your guys vast knowledge

And I who thought this was your new case and not your MB. Looks damn modern. Yep, I learn something new everyday

 

7 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

The concept of a toaster is very fitting for modern laptops AW computer based upon how they (mis)behave, LoL.

Or for a brand new AW desktop from Dell😎 The air fryer look/style is on the way to be old. Im pretty sure they would drool seeing an nice shiny Red toaster box from Dell😀

 

[ryan]

its all good man. I was thinking of going with the Z series but T series is just fine. overclocks like a beast

[Mr. Fox]

28 minutes ago, Papusan said:

And I who thought this was your new case and not your MB. Looks damn modern. Yep, I learn something new everyday

 

Or for a brand new AW desktop from Dell😎 The air fryer look is on the way to be old.

 

The air fryer is more reliable and looks better. The only thing worse than a modern black Alienware is a modern white Alienware. Ugly on the inside, and ugly on the outside. At least we can say they are consistent.

[Raiderman]

On 1/21/2023 at 11:32 AM, Mr. Fox said:

See my updated post. https://community.hwbot.org/topic/221655-mandatory-systeminfo-555-update-and-new-benchmark-rules-for-rtx40-series/?do=findComment&comment=634928

 

@johnksss

What a sh!t show.

[Mr. Fox]

11 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

What a sh!t show.

It really is. It makes me sad to admit it, but they are getting worse. I thought it might get better after der8auer bought it, but it is not. He is not interfering in the day-to-day, but I am thinking maybe he should.

 

Twitter still sucks, but it is much, much better now under new ownership because the status quo stupidity of the past is no longer tolerated and the retarded monkey business is no longer allowed. We have engagement of the new ownership to thank for it being less of a leftist-controlled cesspool.

[KING19]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:01 PM, Mr. Fox said:

I think so. While ray tracing is not necessary for a game to be enjoyable, the visual quality enhancement is nothing short of remarkable. Far more realistic graphics than without it. It doesn't make a fun game more fun or a boring game less boring. I never choose a game because it has it, but the difference it makes in the graphics quality is undeniable. If you have not been exposed a whole lot to it, then it is hard to relate to and easy to dismiss.

 

That is true but at same time its still a gimmick because only High End GPUs can barely handle it with DLSS/FSR on to get playable FPS but it also introduces more issues like ghosting and shimmering at times. Companies are pushing RT so hard when majority of people dont have the specs to use it property..

[Etern4l]

Guys, I need to upgrade fans on my Arctic 360 AIO and possibly elsewhere. What's the best option in the high performance range? Noctua NF-12 iPPC 3000 rpm? 

[Mr. Fox]

10 hours ago, KING19 said:

 

That is true but at same time its still a gimmick because only High End GPUs can barely handle it with DLSS/FSR on to get playable FPS but it also introduces more issues like ghosting and shimmering at times. Companies are pushing RT so hard when majority of people dont have the specs to use it property..

I'm not sure that is entirely correct. It is accurate from a limited perspective. To say it is a gimmick because you need a high end GPU to use it without DLSS/FSR turned on to get playable FPS seems to define a gimmick as anything that doesn't work well on old, weak or inexpensive hardware. I could see a lot of laptops with anemic GPUs struggling with it, but that doesn't make it a gimmick. It just means they're anemic products that need to be replaced to stay current. Thankfully, that is not holding back progress for everyone that isn't playing games on cheap or old laptops. 

 

Here is a video where I use a game that does a great job of enhancing things with ray tracing. I go through each configuration available with ray tracing from DLSS off through the various DLSS settings. Even with DLSS off it is not unplayable (although less FPS than ideal). Only the 8K mode looks crappy. This is with my 3060 Ti, so definitely not a high-end GPU by desktop GPU standards. That said, I believe a $350 3060 Ti desktop GPU performs better than mobile 3070 and roughly on par with a 3080 notebook GPU, so the comment about needing a "high end" GPU might apply from a laptop user's somewhat biased reference being limited to the context of laptop graphics capabilities. 

 

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

Guys, I need to upgrade fans on my Arctic 360 AIO and possibly elsewhere. What's the best option in the high performance range? Noctua NF-12 iPPC 3000 rpm? 

Noctua certainly makes good ones. I doubt you could go wrong on the quality, but there may be an equally effective option that is less expensive.

 

I can't say what fans are the best because I usually do not purchase expensive fans. I have too many (20 fans on one computer and 22 fans on another) and it becomes cost prohibitive to buy high-end fans.

[Etern4l]

57 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I'm not sure that is entirely correct. It is accurate from a limited perspective. To say it is a gimmick because you need a high end GPU to use it without DLSS/FSR turned on to get playable FPS seems to define a gimmick as anything that doesn't work well on old, weak or inexpensive hardware. I could see a lot of laptops with anemic GPUs struggling with it, but that doesn't make it a gimmick. It just means they're anemic products that need to be replaced to stay current. Thankfully, that is not holding back progress for everyone that isn't playing games on cheap or old laptops. 

 

Here is a video where I use a game that does a great job of enhancing things with ray tracing. I go through each configuration available with ray tracing from DLSS off through the various DLSS settings. Even with DLSS off it is not unplayable (although less FPS than ideal). Only the 8K mode looks crappy. This is with my 3060 Ti, so definitely not a high-end GPU by desktop GPU standards. That said, I believe a $350 3060 Ti desktop GPU performs better than mobile 3070 and roughly on par with a 3080 notebook GPU, so the comment about needing a "high end" GPU might apply from a laptop user's somewhat biased reference being limited to the context of laptop graphics capabilities. 

 

Noctua certainly makes good ones. I doubt you could go wrong on the quality, but there may be an equally effective option that is less expensive.

 

I can't say what fans are the best because I usually do not purchase expensive fans. I have too many (20 fans on one computer and 22 fans on another) and it becomes cost prohibitive to buy high-end fans.

 

Thanks bro, open to ideas, as I would be looking to replace between 8 and 11 fans myself. 

[Mr. Fox]

19 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Thanks bro, open to ideas, as I would be looking to replace between 8 and 11 fans myself. 

I found some Antec fans on Amazon that I am pleased with that do a nice job. That might be a good alternative. They cost about half what the equivalent Noctua fan does and they are available in multi-fan packages. They have rubber isolators on the corners to help with noise and vibration, too.

[Ashtrix]

On 1/21/2023 at 8:57 PM, Raiderman said:

After reading a lot of comments, most think RT is a bit over hyped considering the FPS hit you take when its enabled. To me, it seems more like a marketing gimmick and less of a necessity. I guess Im not the huge gamer I used to be. Am I wrong?

 

To me, I see RT as a waste of Silicon. 30-40% of Nvidia die is wasted by that hybrid raster-ray tracing esp that DLSS. I like the technology of having immersive Global RT Path tracing, but I do not like the upscaler add-on that Nvidia puts forth to use the RT because of performance impact pair that with poor optimization by modern developers. It is not mature enough to have it mandatory or regard as highest value.

 

I mentioned many times about RT equipped games. And of all technologies of RT implementation - RT Ambient Occlusion, RT Shadows, RT Global Illumination, RT Reflections. Only RT GI has highest impact (it even has a reshade mod that impacts games in visual quality, more below) and RT AO is second most in visual impact.  We have to look at RT using all these RT features, not just RTX ON = Good, Off = Bad or not desirable or inferior etc. Baked lighting artistic impact is much much higher than what Nvidia says about RT.

 

And of all AAA titles that have been released since the debut of RTX Turing. The only title which makes a visual impact is METRO Exodus Enhanced Edition, you can watch a few trailers and comparisons it does have impact due to all the light sources in the game are path traced so the Enhanced Edition won't even run on normal pre-RT GPUs. Now the question arises, is it even worth ? IMHO nope. EE is fine addition as a free add-on they released it to all owners, even on GOG platform, it makes the game unnatural in some cases where light should not be there, making it brighter. All in all not a mandatory experience. You can watch it below.

 

Metro EE has RTGI and RTAO, RT Reflections as well.

 

 

Another video you can clearly see how it's more brighter and this is a Flagship title, yea it does look pretty in some cases and outside though. The only other games which use RTGI and are big budget games are Cyberpunk (more on it below), Witcher 3 Next Gen both of them run awful and TW3 Next Gen simply decimated all the optimization into dumpster as GPUs with triple FPS went to double and below 60. Then the RT Impact is negligible, waste of time and your GPU power, I mentioned it when the game patch was coming.

 

As for Metro again, watch at 38 seconds mark and see how bright the room is below in EE vs original. Lot more examples like that, it kills the Atmospheric immersion of METRO from Darker to brighter.

 

 

Now moving to RT Reflections, which 99% of the modern games have it is like watching puddles doing better Screen Space Reflections (SSR), this won't even be noticed by you in the game unless you stop and watch those reflections, maybe in a Spiderman Remastered game because all windows are glass and use RT Reflections but that is a single application, and effect is worth the FPS drop ? Nope. Esp if you do not have a top end RT GPU the RTX will kill your frame rate and on 4K you are forced to run Upscalers, just go to TPU and see any RT related benchmarks on cards less than 3080 class. So it all worth to run a lower render resolution, imagine paying $1000 and you are running an upscaled texture on a high res display you bought bonus you get image stability baggage running upscalers.

 

And the major impact is TAA, it's far more important than RT. I mentioned about it here if you are interested. Enabling TAA = Blurfest, because TAA makes the game renderer run the textures at lower resolution unlike MSAA, which is dead because of the rendering technique changes and hard impact on GPUs far more than TAA. DLSS uses Temporal AA - TAA, and people say it is better because TAA = Blur, DLSS = TAA + Sharpening, so it will look better BUT the Shimmering, Artifacting, Noise, Glitching, Ghosting, Low resolution upscaling is not better. You are paying $1000+ and running an upscaled texture, that is a loss.

 

Reason I mention DLSS because, if you enable RT on 4K the perf hit will be massive, 1440P also same, depending on the game and GPU used, so DLSS is defacto for most consumers esp where the majority of the market lives which means 1080P/1440P vast userbase and in that area DLSS is worse you can check this TPU God of War FSR vs DLSS analysis (scaling of upscalers on low resolutions is lower) or TPU Ghost Wire Tokyo FSR + DLSS + Native analysis (look at the lit board adverts) or TPU Spiderman Remastered DLSS vs FSR (LOD) and see how 4K picture is far more clearer, PC got regressive technology like Console Checkerboard rendering.

 

Personally, I will never ever run DLSS, if I want RT, I will run at 1080P as I have a 1080P panel and a potent GPU, plus have better FPS and rather run DSR which will use the GPU power to render at higher resolution and fit the lower res monitor if I get an OLED 1440P then also nope to upscalers. That is a superior technique or approach rather than DLSS+RT regression.  Question may arise what if you want to play modern games, well I dislike modern games because of multitude of reasons like wokeness, poor optimization, cutscene simulators from Sony playstation etc, that's a totally different ball game...

 

Control is a game with RT and TAA, but this game can disable TAA using hex edit on the exe it's on PCGW, you can get better fidelity in the game without TAA, RE2, RE3, DMC5 all do not use TAA, Capcom updated RE2, RE3 RE7 with DX12 and RT which nuked the Ambient Occlusion and made it worse in every aspect there's a beta option in Steam to disable that new update as these look solid without any RT / DX12 API update.

 

If I buy a 4K BD, do I like 2K Upscale ? Nope, nobody does which is why some BD's like Pirates of Caribbean got major negative reviews on 4K Disc due to piss poor garbage upscaling and loss of detail vs 1080P BD. A bit tangent but I want to emphasize running some fancy RT and tacking an upscaler with sharpening pass is butchering the fidelity.

 

Now does a game exists which uses all those fancy tech and beats Red Dead Redemption 2 (no RT at all) in visual fidelity or any RT game that has it default from developers that will beat GTA V Natural Vision Evolved mod (has RT in the reshade) in visual fidelity, both these are older games and RDR2 without RT decimates all titles. And 2013 Crysis 3 build without any TAA beats any modern game with RT due to fantastic art direction and way ahead in GPU rasterization in Crytek's old vision, those games are solely made for PC another example is Assassins Creed Unity without any RT beats a ton of games in visual fidelity again. This game does run in 4K60 on latest consoles only and PC gets 120FPS at 4K. Plus, one can include RTGI Reshade by Pascal Glitcher preset into many games, or those who want simple solution can install bloatware GeForce Experience and use the same RTGI Reshade Filter on all old games and not have the modern RT performance drop. It works even on AMD cards too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS

I disregard Cyberpunk totally as I feel it is not a game at all, only to be fake marketed and hyped to moon and created a sheep consumerist reaction by masses plus that Edgerunner Anime caused it's spike even though it has all those RT FX and even more, but also not only that, the game sucks big time in optimization and runs awful on modern hardware and forces you to run those fake frame generators.  The company CDPR is dead, all their staff left. They are killing RED Engine for Unreal Engine 5, they lost their top brass. Witcher 3 RT edition is a junkfest nightmare with horrendous optimization, I mentioned it earlier.

 

I did not include Portal RTX, because that garbage runs like trash even on 3090Ti and 4090 cards, awful you need a DLSS3 Frame Generator to run at 60FPS 4K on 4090 plus that's a damn decade+ old title sponsored by Nvidia to run awfully on AMD Radeon just because of useless bunch of RTX proprietary junk.

 

 

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I found some Antec fans on Amazon that I am pleased with that do a nice job. That might be a good alternative. They cost about half what the equivalent Noctua fan does and they are available in multi-fan packages. They have rubber isolators on the corners to help with noise and vibration, too.

Makes perfect sense in your case, however, I would be replacing mainly Arctic P12s I believe, so really need something with a major kick. Will also go back and look at Bro @Papusan's earlier power fan posts. I was hoping I could get away with aircooling and silent fans, sadly at least one has to go.