*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Horrible, like all GPUs made before NVIDIA discovered a oroprietary way to implement ray tracing as a means of extortiion.

Slide show... literally. https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/90334138

  

Please post a link to that.

White computer parts almost always strike me that way, even when it is crisp and clean looking. White is just not the right color to use from my perspective. It always sucks, even when it is not used in a disgusting way. The rainbow colors being added to the white simply make the impression or being a joke for children worse and exacerbate the ugliness. If you add anime images into the mix it becomes an object of contempt and worthy of ridicule.

There has to be something abnormal that is being overlooked. What are you using for a cooler? Maybe that is the problem. Are you using the Intel ILM or a CPU frame? I am wondering if the CPU shape and the shape of the base of your cooler are going opposite directions and need to be lapped?

 

Yeah, that could be part of the problem. 

 

1. I'm using Arctic LFII 360 AIO with 6 Noctua IPPC 3000rpm fans. A sensor placed on the radiator consistently shows exactly 2C over ambient, so I guess not too bad. 

That said, the cold plate on that AIO is just long enough to cover the CPU, one would hope for some margin. 

2. I'm using the Thermaltake contact frame, very gently tightened about 90 deg over the point of resistance. 

 

No problems with the same setup (actually with just silent 3x Arctic and 3x Noctua 2000 RPM fans) on the 12900KS. The difference was the power draw: about 220-230W vs 270-280W (over quite extended periods). 

 

Also, with the PTM7950, things were working marvelously for about 2 weeks, then BOOM: two cores at 100C and power draw down to 240W, in a matter of a day or two. 

 

Thanks for the lapping tip, will start reading on that. I also have a couple of pics of the IHS and coldplate, after previous similar paste failures (Phobya Nanogrease lasted the longest, about a month, this is second-best at over 2 weeks). 

 

I mean, it's not the end of the road yet, a few more things to try:

* Lapping, now that you mentioned it

* Different AIO

* LM on the IHS

* Delid

* New case and custom WC loop

* Throw in the towel and power limit - will still handsomely outperform the 12900KS.

 

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Yeah, that could be part of the problem. 

 

1. I'm using Arctic LFII 360 AIO with 6 Noctua IPPC 3000rpm fans. A sensor placed on the radiator consistently shows exactly 2C over ambient, so I guess not too bad. 

That said, the cold plate on that AIO is just long enough to cover the CPU, one would hope for some margin. 

2. I'm using the Thermaltake contact frame, very gently tightened about 90 deg over the point of resistance. 

 

No problems with the same setup (actually with just silent 3x Arctic and 3x Noctua 2000 RPM fans) on the 12900KS. The difference was the power draw: about 220-230W vs 270-280W (over quite extended periods). 

 

Also, with the PTM7950, things were working marvelously for about 2 weeks, then BOOM: two cores at 100C and power draw down to 240W, in a matter of a day or two. 

 

Thanks for the lapping tip, will start reading on that. I also have a couple of pics of the IHS and coldplate, after previous similar paste failures (Phobya Nanogrease lasted the longest, about a month, this is second-best at over 2 weeks). 

 

I mean, it's not the end of the road yet, a few more things to try:

* Lapping, now that you mentioned it

* Different AIO

* LM on the IHS

* Delid

* New case and custom WC loop

* Throw in the towel and power limit - will still handsomely outperform the 12900KS.

First place to start is the delid. You're going to run hotter than you would after a delid no matter what you do. You'll never have excellent temperatures with stock solder unless you get freaky-lucky and get a CPU like one of those that @tps3443stumbled into that can run 6.0GHz with something like 1.250V. Once you have the IHS off you can easily lap it, or get an aftermarket copper or nickel IHS that is already flat.

[tps3443]

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Horrible, like all GPUs made before NVIDIA discovered a proprietary way to implement ray tracing as a means of extortion. Slide show... literally. https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/90334138

Please post a link to that @tps3443

 

I am not happy with my results. I am going to be asking EKWB to accept an RMA and refund my money for selling me something that functions the same as a normal water block on an IHS. My temps are not worse. They are a tiny bit better, but not direct die results like I would expect. Should be a LOT better, not a little bit. Temps with the Velocity2 block are almost the same as Velocity2 direct die block. Not terrible, but why bother with direct die if it is not impressively better? Makes no sense to me.

 

Now, that said, I love how the EKWB part is made though. Very high precision and MUCH MORE pleasant to work with. I truly despise how the Supercool Direct Die block is made. Having to take it apart  to separate it from the ILM is super retarded. They should come up with something less inconvenient and messy, because that sucks. A frame like EKWB uses would be a bazillion times better. 

It could be that. It is EXTREMELY heavy. It may have so much metal that it is normalizing temperatures rather than lowering them.

White computer parts almost always strike me that way, even when it is crisp and clean looking. White is just not the right color to use from my perspective. It always sucks, even when it is not used in a disgusting way. The rainbow puke colors being added to the white simply create the impression of being a circus clown joke PC for children, and the rainbow merely exacerbates the magnitude of the ugliness. If you add stupid stuff like anime or cartoon images into the mix it then it becomes an object of contempt that is worthy of rejection and public ridicule.

There has to be something abnormal that is being overlooked. What are you using for a cooler? Maybe that is the problem. Are you using the Intel ILM or a CPU frame? I am wondering if the CPU shape and the shape of the base of your cooler are going opposite directions and need to be lapped?

SC DD vs EK DD comparison by members.
 

https://www.overclock.net/threads/overclocking-raptor-lake-13900k-13700k-13600k-etc-results-bins-and-discussion.1799628/post-29150576

 

Comparisons continue on to the next page with some one else displaying similar results after as well. 
 

@Mr. Fox

 

I have a supercool Gen12 you can have it for free. It performs as good or better than a Supercool Gen13 I swapped from this Gen12 to the Gen13 and did not see a difference at all lol. The bottom of that coldplate is already lapped smooth so it free floats perfectly on the 13900K die. Your temps would be insane. I did it right, and it’s a real performer.
 

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

First place to start is the delid. You're going to run hotter than you would after a delid no matter what you do. You'll never have excellent temperatures with stock solder unless you get freaky-lucky and get a CPU like one of those that @tps3443stumbled into that can run 6.0GHz with something like 1.250V. Once you have the IHS off you can easily lap it, or get an aftermarket copper or nickel IHS that is already flat.

 

Many thanks. Solid advice from the benching perspective, however, I'm not sure deliding first would be helpful in my case. Here is my reasoning as to why not:

 

The nature of the problem is that, for a combination of reasons, the TIMs lose properties or pump out after a period of few weeks under heavy load. Likely contributing factors include:

* Intel, maliciously (to prevent the gaming CPU from competing with Xeons) or idiotically, used insufficiently large IHS for the 300W CPU - nothing we can do about that

* Potential IHS concavity or other material surface imperfections - sanding could provide an improvement, at a loss of warranty

* Ditto for the AIO coldplate - sanding this is pretty much risk-free, although some coldplates are slightly convex on purpose and sanding could make things worse

* The AIO itself could be lacking in terms of coldplate dimensions or pump performance (there is no pump/flow monitoring on this) - could try another AIO

* There is a more durable TIM to try still - LM is the only option left, although opinions on durability seem to vary

* The overall system can't handle the given power on a sustained basis - give up and limit the power 

 

That's it as far as I can see, short of rebuilding the system with a custom loop. 

 

Now, what I understand deliding would achieve, is it would improve heat transfer between the die and the IHS, further increasing the IHS temperature and compounding the problem. Great option for short-duration loads, benching and gaming, and for people with extreme cooling, but not necessarily in my case, if I understand correctly. Yes, it would potentially allow me to save the original IHS, though. 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

@Mr. Fox

 

I have a supercool Gen12 you can have it for free. It performs as good or better than a Supercool Gen13 I swapped from this Gen12 to the Gen13 and did not see a difference at all lol. The bottom of that coldplate is already lapped smooth so it free floats perfectly on the 13900K die. Your temps would be insane. I did it right, and it’s a real performer.

That is very kind and generous of you. Thank you. Let me know how much to send your way for the shipping cost. You can send it USPS Priority in a small flatrate box. I really appreciate it. Your 12th Gen kit cold plate was made totally different than the first version I purchased that did not work well. I was impressed with the results you saw with the revised cold plate. It worked fantastic, just as the 10th Gen version I had did.

 

I have started an RMA with EKWB and linked the thread you provided on OC.net and provided these two images with the RMA request to EKWB. Hopefully, they will do the right thing and give me my money back. I really like how it is made, but I do not like the poor results. They need to do something different. 

 

 

 

I left a comment on their YouTube video.

 

59 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Now, what I understand deliding would achieve, is it would improve heat transfer between the die and the IHS, further increasing the IHS temperature and compounding the problem. Great option for short-duration loads, benching and gaming, and for people with extreme cooling, but not necessarily in my case, if I understand correctly. Yes, it would potentially allow me to save the original IHS, though. 

I think delidding would help a whole lot more than you are thinking it will. As @tps3443has pointed out, sanding down the lip on the underside of the IHS so that the IHS contact surface mates with the die instead of the PCB is crucial. If the IHS drags on the PCB instead of swiveling freely on the die, the results will not be as good. If you do that and use liquid metal on both sides of the IHS even your sustained load temps will improve measurably. The benefit is not limited to short periods of stress. The stock solder only works well enough with near stock clock settings and an undervolt. Any kind of overclock with increased voltage causes unacceptable thermals with the stock solder.

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

That is very kind and generous of you. Thank you. Let me know how much to send your way for the shipping cost. You can send it USPS Priority in a small flatrate box. I really appreciate it.

 

I have started an RMA with EKWB and linked the thread you provided on OC.net and provided these two images with the RMA request to EKWB. Hopefully, they will do the right thing and give me my money back. I really like how it is made, but I do like the poor results.

 

 

 

I left a comment on their YouTube video.

 

I think delidding would help a whole lot more than you are thinking it will. As @tps3443has pointed out, sanding down the lip on the underside of the IHS so that the IHS contact surface mates with the die instead of the PCB is crucial. If the IHS drags on the PCB instead of swiveling freely on the die, the results will not be as good. If you do that and use liquid metal on both sides of the IHS even your sustained load temps will improve measurably. The benefit is not limited to short periods of stress. The stock solder only works well enough with near stock clock settings and an undervolt. Any kind of overclock with increased voltage causes unacceptable thermals with the stock solder.

 

Thanks, appreciate your advice, although in my mind the challenge is still not improving CPU thermals per se, but solving the TIM degradation (which is caused by insufficient IHS cooling and/or flawed contact, obviously). I really don't see how rising IHS temperature would help with that.

 

For now I'm reviewing this AFII 360 AIO. For starters, it has a 2000 RPM pump... whereas some other offerings on the market come with a ~3000rpm pump. As @tps3443 was saying, pump speed is key. For example, DeepCool LS720 comes with a 3100RPM pump, which could provide material improvement potentially. Need to read up more.

[tps3443]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

That is very kind and generous of you. Thank you. Let me know how much to send your way for the shipping cost. You can send it USPS Priority in a small flatrate box. I really appreciate it. Your 12th Gen kit cold plate was made totally different than the first version I purchased that did not work well. I was impressed with the results you saw with the revised cold plate. It worked fantastic, just as the 10th Gen version I had did.

 

I have started an RMA with EKWB and linked the thread you provided on OC.net and provided these two images with the RMA request to EKWB. Hopefully, they will do the right thing and give me my money back. I really like how it is made, but I do not like the poor results. They need to do something different. 

 

 

 

I left a comment on their YouTube video.

 

I think delidding would help a whole lot more than you are thinking it will. As @tps3443has pointed out, sanding down the lip on the underside of the IHS so that the IHS contact surface mates with the die instead of the PCB is crucial. If the IHS drags on the PCB instead of swiveling freely on the die, the results will not be as good. If you do that and use liquid metal on both sides of the IHS even your sustained load temps will improve measurably. The benefit is not limited to short periods of stress. The stock solder only works well enough with near stock clock settings and an undervolt. Any kind of overclock with increased voltage causes unacceptable thermals with the stock solder.

I still have not been able to get my Gen13 Supercool temps as good as my Gen12 Supercool temps. I did not lap the bottom of the SC Gen 13, but I may do that. The temps are so godly on either setup being Gen12 or Gen13 it hasn’t really bothered me much. 
 

 

@Mr. Fox

 

@Etern4l

 

pump speed is key, but you will hit a point where gains are no more. I run a chiller only with no radiators. So pump speed helps tremendously here, I still have not hit a wall even with (4) D5’s. The reason is because, the chillers have big tubing diameter inside and that flow pressure really drops off with a chiller. The more pressure, the better! But yes you want some good flow with radiator cooling too. (1) single fast pump should be sufficient for any single radiator setup.

[Papusan]

On 1/13/2023 at 3:28 AM, Papusan said:

Yep, I expect improvements. Regarding they use bios default for 12900K hence high temps the 13900K will run at higher watttage anyway🙂 The big question will be... How much will the direct die cooler provide vs... standard delidde and liquid metal. Theyt can claim better results. But not because of the new Direct die cooler😎 

 

Me sceptical before the opposite be shown. And why not post results now?

 

On 1/13/2023 at 4:00 AM, Papusan said:

You saw the package power? He managed go down from 225w and +90C to sub 208W after the shaving and still +80C. I tested my sons setup with the 12900K... Around 80C with 280W load. And this with not the best wb as Alphacool XPX and fans tuned for less noise in the bios. He run default speed and the Cpu will never come above 65C in CBR-23 stress test. In games the Cpu max out around 52C. But the Cpu normally run well below 50C for his gaming. The Gpu is worse... In the small mid chassis the Gpu will run at around 65C due the heat dumped from the front rad. The pay of for the small form factor 🙂

 

+80C with 210W load is awful if he run with liquid metal and direct die regarless if the WB finish isn't finished. A undevolt to lower power below 210W would only cover the problem. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am not happy with my results. I am going to be asking EKWB to accept an RMA and refund my money for selling me something that functions the same as a normal water block on an IHS. My temps are not worse. They are a tiny bit better, but not direct die results like I would expect. Should be a LOT better, not a little bit. Temps with the Velocity2 block are almost the same as Velocity2 direct die block. Not terrible, but why bother with direct die if it is not impressively better? Makes no sense to me.

 

Now, that said, I love how the EKWB part is made though. Very high precision and MUCH MORE pleasant to work with. I truly despise how the Supercool Direct Die block is made. Having to take it apart  to separate it from the ILM is super retarded. They should come up with something less inconvenient and messy, because that sucks. A frame like EKWB uses would be a bazillion times better. 

It could be that. It is EXTREMELY heavy. It may have so much metal that it is normalizing temperatures rather than lowering them.

White computer parts almost always strike me that way, even when it is crisp and clean looking. White is just not the right color to use from my perspective. It always sucks, even when it is not used in a disgusting way. The rainbow puke colors being added to the white simply create the impression of being a circus clown joke PC for children, and the rainbow merely exacerbates the magnitude of the ugliness. If you add stupid stuff like anime or cartoon images into the mix it then it becomes an object of contempt that is worthy of rejection and public ridicule.

There has to be something abnormal that is being overlooked. What are you using for a cooler? Maybe that is the problem. Are you using the Intel ILM or a CPU frame? I am wondering if the CPU shape and the shape of the base of your cooler are going opposite directions and need to be lapped?

Yep, bro Fox. Nice you got it confirmed that I was very sceptical to the new EK direct die kit. Me had correct. You can't make wonders/magic if you build on top of weak fondation (see their first tests).

[Etern4l]

46 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

@Etern4l

 

pump speed is key, but you will hit a point where gains are no more. I run a chiller only with no radiators. So pump speed helps tremendously here, I still have not hit a wall even with (4) D5’s. The reason is because, the chillers have big tubing diameter inside and that flow pressure really drops off with a chiller. The more pressure, the better! But yes you want some good flow with radiator cooling too. (1) single fast pump should be sufficient for any single radiator setup.

 

Yeah, I suspect the low pump speed plays a role here, precisely because I use custom fans meaning that the water coming out of the rad is really cool, by AIO standards. I looked at Tom's reviews and they said, wow - this AIO (another DeepCool model with 2550rpm pump) is awesome because it can handle 315W with the 13900K. Well, my setup as can handle 320-330W with a 2000RPM pump (with fresh paste).

 

I was sizing up this AFII AIO for the 12900KS, not the 13900K, and didn't pay attention to the pump speed. Arctic managed to get away with a slow pump due to the oversized radiator. Ideally I would like something with a thick radiator and a fast pump lol. If no such product exists, then I guess it will be time to start putting together a custom loop setup.

 

Edit: yeah the AFII 360 doesn't cut it anymore these days. 9C worse than the DeepCool LS720 (at £120 it's tempting):
 

https://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/temps-oc.png

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

@Mr. Fox PayPal $10 bucks to *******.com and I will send the SC Gen12 off tomorrow. That should be more than enough.

I just sent it. Thank you. It went to the account we had used before in that name. You might want to delete your email so that bots do not grab it for spammers.

 

I put it back together with the Optimus block and KPX so it would be less effort to clean up when the SC DD block arrives. The temperatures are clearly higher, but not considering it was bare die with liquid metal before.

 

Compare this (IHS and KPX)

To this (EKWB direct die) running the same AIDA64 stress test for 2 minutes. Should have been at least 10-15°C diff. Basically the same result, within a margin of error.

[Reciever]

Personal details removed, there is a place for transactions @tps3443 otherwise handle it via PM.

 

Thanks 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

@Mr. Fox PayPal $10 bucks to *******.com and I will send the SC Gen12 off tomorrow. That should be more than enough.

I also texted you my mailing address to your cell after sending the dinero so you did not have to hunt for that in prior texts or emails.

[ryan]

bro @Mr. Fox I missed a few posts, but did you end up getting a better binned 4090? 

[Mr. Fox]

16 minutes ago, ryan said:

bro @Mr. Fox I missed a few posts, but did you end up getting a better binned 4090? 

Nope, I did not. Brother @Rage Setis loaning me a 6900 XT and waterblock to play with and if I like it I will buy it instead of a 4090 for now. I can always get a 4090 or 4090 Ti later on, or maybe not ever. I'm not liking how firmware crippled they are in terms of overclocking the core and the lack of voltage control sucks. That does not surprise me, but for the price they are charging you should get more than a gamer-wuss cookie cutter GPU. And, paying more should get you more. In the case of the Strix paying more meant getting less.

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

Edit: yeah the AFII 360 doesn't cut it anymore these days. 9C worse than the DeepCool LS720 (at £120 it's tempting):
 

https://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/temps-oc.png

Well, that's odd. Your link gives me this:

Quote

Error 1011  Ray ID: 7a34fccf2cfd5287 • 2023-03-05 20:07:50 UTC

Access denied
 

What happened?

The owner of this website (www.kitguru.net) does not allow hotlinking to that resource (/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/temps-oc.png).

 

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Yeah, I suspect the low pump speed plays a role here, precisely because I use custom fans meaning that the water coming out of the rad is really cool, by AIO standards. I looked at Tom's reviews and they said, wow - this AIO (another DeepCool model with 2550rpm pump) is awesome because it can handle 315W with the 13900K.

 

Edit: yeah the AFII 360 doesn't cut it anymore these days. 9C worse than the DeepCool LS720 (at £120 it's tempting):
 

https://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/temps-oc.png

Remember reviews with different Cpu's can provide different temp results. 

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

For now I'm reviewing this AFII 360 AIO. For starters, it has a 2000 RPM pump... whereas some other offerings on the market come with a ~3000rpm pump. As @tps3443 was saying, pump speed is key. For example, DeepCool LS720 comes with a 3100RPM pump, which could provide material improvement potentially. Need to read up more.

I don't think the pump or pump speed is the problem. Has to be the cold plate fits on the IHS. And you are looking on an AIO that won't bring you much... 

 

And the results from the AFII is with the weak less noisy fans that follow the AIO.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/deepcool-ls720-aio-360-liquid-cpu-cooler/7.html

 

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/10347/deepcool-ls720-cpu-liquid-cooler/index.html

 

49 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Nope, I did not. Brother @Rage Setis loaning me a 6900 XT and waterblock to play with and if I like it I will buy it instead of a 4090 for now. I can always get a 4090 or 4090 Ti later on, or maybe not ever. I'm not liking how firmware crippled they are in terms of overclocking the core and the lack of voltage control sucks. That does not surprise me, but for the price they are charging you should get more than a gamer-wuss cookie cutter GPU. And, paying more should get you more. In the case of the Strix paying more meant getting less.

Well, that's odd. Your link gives me this:

 

You aren't the chosen one bro Fox. There is firmware and software for the elite. Not for the average Joe or the ordinary performance jockey's. 

 

[Mr. Fox]

22 minutes ago, Papusan said:

You aren't the chosen one bro Fox. There is firmware and software for the elite. Not for the average Joe or the ordinary performance jockey's. 

 

Right. But, being charged for it as if that were true is totally dishonest. Even more dishonest when it performs worse than something that cost $300-$500 less. 

22 minutes ago, Papusan said:

I don't think the pump or pump speed is the problem. Has to be the cold plate fits on the IHS. And you are looking on an AIO that won't bring you much... 

I agree with that. While the volume of water getting pumped through the block matters, fit is more important. If it cannot transfer the heat off of the die or IHS due to poor contact then running more water through the block will accomplish nothing. The fact that the phase change pad worked better than thermal paste for a period of time, but ultimately failed, suggests there is a problem with fit and/or contact. If the fit is poor enough, liquid metal might not provide any help.

[ryan]

24 minutes ago, Papusan said:

You aren't the chosen one bro Fox. There is firmware and software for the elite. Not for the average Joe or the ordinary performance jockey's. 

LMAO

 

So true. they are all probably wearing special diapers that come with the parts(chosen ones). wouldn't suprise me.

[Papusan]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Right. But, being charged for it as if that were true is totally dishonest. Even more dishonest when it performs worse than something that cost $300-$500 less. 

I agree with that. While the volume of water getting pumped through the block matters, fit is more important. If it cannot transfer the heat off of the die or IHS due to poor contact then running more water through the block will accomplish nothing.

They are all dishonest. The manufacturers of HW use binned parts when they throw out MB, CPU's and GPU's for the elite to promote their best products. 

 

The world records bragging is worth nothing for the average Joe or the performance entusiasts. This is more as false adverticing. The nearest you can come scam.

 

They even use binned MB for making memory profiles in bios. 

 

Regarding fits between IHS and heatsink. Even the best HW tweaks (CPU frame) can't fix the bending mess on some boards. You can even risk worse results with the CPU frame.

 

This is status quo on today's tech... Messed up.

[ryan]

depressing. On a happy note im getting 95w 3080 performance with a small overclock. 8700-8800 is the target now. no sense in getting 9k and seeing artifacts half the time. the chosen people should be in our scopes.

 

i'd like to add, we have our first target. he goes by the name BISO BISO. i'm positive he is getting help lol, just look up what this guy gets

 

 

 

if your curious what sponserships this guy has look no further he is on this ad

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Well, that's odd. Your link gives me this:

 

 

That explains why the link wasn't shown inline by the forum... Here is the underlying page:

 

https://www.kitguru.net/components/cooling/luke-hill/deepcool-ls720-360mm-aio-liquid-cooler-review/2/

 

41 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

I don't think the pump or pump speed is the problem. Has to be the cold plate fits on the IHS. And you are looking on an AIO that won't bring you much... 

 

Agree the fit could be a problem, but not sure what to do about that. Actually another AIO could be a solution, especially given that the fitting mechanism on the AFII is not rated too highly. I'm not sure if it's worth lapping the coldplate.

 

Logically the pump speed (flow, to be more precise - which very few manufacturers quote) should play a role, right? If you have 50% more water flow, that should materially affect the heat exchange especially if the coolant temp is around ambient. Also, from what I can see the pump block on this and similar AIOs is literally 2-3x the size of the pump block on the AFII. There is also the matter of coldplate size - the one on AFII is quite small, probably further reducing the heat exchange.

 

There is a lot of variance in the reviews, as you can see from the link above. I have to say, I am a little suspicious when I see reviews where the Corsair H150i (nothing special specs-wise) takes all the top spots lol

 

Besides that DC LS720 there are also a couple other 3000RPM pump AIO options which seem to perform similarly:

* EKWB Nucleus I believe, the current model

* Thermaltake Toughliquid Ultra 360

 

I will have a think. A bit of unwelcome painful guesswork and hassle to be honest.

[tps3443]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I just sent it. Thank you. It went to the account we had used before in that name. You might want to delete your email so that bots do not grab it for spammers.

 

I put it back together with the Optimus block and KPX so it would be less effort to clean up when the SC DD block arrives. The temperatures are clearly higher, but not considering it was bare die with liquid metal before.

 

Compare this (IHS and KPX)

To this (EKWB direct die) running the same AIDA64 stress test for 2 minutes. Should have been at least 10-15°C diff. Basically the same result, within a margin of error.

Thanks! I received payment. I will ship this off tomorrow. 

[Papusan]

19 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Agree the fit could be a problem, but not sure what to do about that. Actually another AIO could be a solution, especially given that the fitting mechanism on the AFII is not rated too highly. I'm not sure if it's worth lapping the coldplate.

 

Logically the pump speed (flow, to be more precise - which very few manufacturers quote) should play a role, right? If you have 50% more water flow, that should materially affect the heat exchange especially if the coolant temp is around ambient. Also, from what I can see the pump block on this and similar AIOs is literally 2-3x the size of the pump block on the AFII. There is also the matter of coldplate size - the one on AFII is quite small, probably further reducing the heat exchange.

 

There is a log of variance in the reviews, as you can see from the link above. 

There are also a couple other 3000RPM pump AIO options which seem to perform similarly:

* EKWB Nucleus I believe, the current model

* Thermaltake Toughliquid Ultra 360

 

I will have a think. A bit of a pain to be honest.

Look at my post on OC.net https://www.overclock.net/threads/overclocking-raptor-lake-13900k-13700k-13600k-etc-results-bins-and-discussion.1799628/post-29054726

 

And fully flat/plane IHS isn't the best choice with AIO coldplate's if you are on Z690/790 boards with the bending mess. 

 

The pump on AIOs is right above the cold-plate and this is one of the reasons they are able to cool with weaker pumps. And there is not much fluid in an AIO. And the distance for the loop is very short.

 

 

[tps3443]

I took my Supercool Gen13 off today and I lapped the bottom of it with a steel file just like I did on the Supercool Gen12. Temps dropped about 10C easily after lapping it. My Supercool Gen12 was actually performing better than the Gen13 was. Which is why I decided to lap the Gen13 today. It looks like it is outperforming the Gen12 by a tiny bit now. But, I am not really sure by how much it may be as much as 5C cooler, but package temps display maybe 4C better temps. I do not have any of my old screen shots anymore since my 2tb m.2 died on me suddenly, they are scattered across the forums. 

Temps look great to me though, but so did the Gen12! PS: This is with 15C water temp. 6Ghz P-Cores, 4.8Ghz E-Cores, 5.1Ghz Ring. 

Temps after R23 run. 
 

 

[Etern4l]

57 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Look at my post on OC.net https://www.overclock.net/threads/overclocking-raptor-lake-13900k-13700k-13600k-etc-results-bins-and-discussion.1799628/post-29054726

 

And fully flat/plane IHS isn't the best choice with AIO coldplate's if you are on Z690/790 boards with the bending mess. 

 

The pump on AIOs is right above the cold-plate and this is one of the reasons they are able to cool with weaker pumps. And there is not much fluid in an AIO. And the distance for the loop is very short.

 

 

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction bro. I have no idea why you had to do the mods you did. Did the bottom cover get in the way of anything? Nothing I noticed on the MEG ACE, however, I have been wondering if the standoffs aren't too tall...

What do you mean by Z690/Z790 bending mess?

 

Actually, according to this thread, the exact high pump RPM AIOs I identified are the ones people recommend (Deepcool LT/LS720 and the EK Nucleus):

 

https://www.overclock.net/threads/13900k-ks-cooling.1803906/

 

The problem is that it's unlikely any of those folks have had a chance to test the setup the way I would (think a 2 week CB23 run). 

 

Will keep digging around.

 

Edit:

One guy wrote:

 

"The LT720 360 keeps my 13900ks below 100c at up to 315 watts. Most aio can’t even come close to 315 watts."

 

Too bad he didn't specify the TIM.

My modified AFII setup did 330W then settled at 325W, at 25C ambient, but that's kind of apples to oranges comparison in terms of fans  I guess, if he just used 3 stock ones. Still, I would I be able to achieve that if I had a contact issue?

 

My problem is that then the paste gets pulverised and performance collapses after a random period of time under load. Guess I just need to try and see if I can lower contact temps with a different AIO + maybe LM, then some compromise on the power will be required. What a mess indeed.

[Papusan]

19 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction bro. I have no idea why you had to do the mods you did. Did the bottom cover get in the way of anything? Nothing I noticed on the MEG ACE, however, I have been wondering if the standoffs aren't too tall...

What do you mean by Z690/Z790 bending mess?

 

Actually, according to this thread, the exact high pump RPM AIOs I identified are the ones people recommend (Deepcool LT/LS720 and the EK Nucleus):

 

https://www.overclock.net/threads/13900k-ks-cooling.1803906/

 

The problem is that it's unlikely any of those folks have had a chance to test the setup the way I would (think a 2 week CB23 run). 

 

Will keep digging around.

 

Z690/790 have the weak Intel - ILM for socket 1700. Hence the custom Cpu-frame can reduce the bending banana mess introduced by Intel. But not all boards bend equal. The slightly curved AIO cold-plate takes account on this. 

 

The cold/plate has to match the IHS flatness. And the results depends if both surfaces match each other. It’s trial and errors with this gen Intel socket. 
 

Nr1 oc’er used a destroyed board so he could sand down the IHS properly. Google Splave and lapping IHS for 12th gen.