*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Etern4l]

19 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Everything would look nicer if Nvidia could stick to same 6.6% price hike as 4090 for all cards outside the 4060Ti and below (those should have been cheaper). The ice on the cake would be if Nvidia could keept 4090 at $1499. Everyone understand that money will lose it's value with inflation. But there is a major difference between up to +72% price increase and 6.6% price inflation. And 4060Ti and SKUs below is die/mem bus capped so the prices for those cards has to be put well below MSRP and infation... 

 

Why would they do that? They don't care. Microsoft and others need more GPUs for the AI death race than NVidia/TSMC can manufacture. Forget about crypto, that's peanuts in comparison - the only difference is that no retail scalpers are directly involved on that side, because the AI war is not for the little man to partake in on the supply side.

 

Yes, the gaming revenue is collapsing, and that's despite their auto-scalping revenue-boosting efforts - if they cut pricing, it would collapse further. If you are a typical blinkered gamer, you want DLSS3 and therefore you must have an Nvidia GPU. Their way or the AMD/Arc poor man's GPU highway, simple as that. The market (if not the world itself) is broken.

[Papusan]

20 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Why would they do that? They don't care. Microsoft and others need more GPUs for the AI death race than NVidia/TSMC can manufacture. Forget about crypto, that's peanuts in comparison - the only difference is that no retail scalpers are directly involved on that side, because the AI war is not for the little man.

 

Yes, the gaming revenue is collapsing, and that's despite their auto-scalping revenue-boosting efforts - if they cut pricing, it would collapse further. If you are a typical gamer, you want DLSS3 and therefore you must have an Nvidia GPU. Their way or the AMD/Arc poor man's GPU highway, simple as that. The market (if not the world itself) is broken.

People will start buy if the prices is more correct (if they have the money but sit on the fence due overpricing). But, yep some will pay whatever nvidia will charge them. But those ain't in majority.

 

Nvidia and AMD won't sit still while the ship is sinking. Remember it only took one day to push prices below MSRP for 4060Ti. And more will come.

[Etern4l]

4 minutes ago, Papusan said:

People will start buy if the prices is more correct (if they have the money but sit on the fence due overpricing). But, yep some will pay whatever nvidia will charge them. 

 

Perhaps, but then they would make less profit per unit. Rest assured they use sophisticated AI pricing models fed by quite accurate information about the market. They will squeeze the last cent out optimally. People are completely powerless in the face of this.

[Raiderman]

1 hour ago, Raiderman said:

Have you looked into dust free filters? I know it's always going to be a losing battle in Arizona, but there are some nice filter screens available that don't cut down on airflow much. I need to find the link I had to some super nice fan filters

Found it. These are some of the best fan filters made.

https://www.demcifilter.com/

https://www.demcifilter.com/products

[Papusan]

20 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Perhaps, but then they would make less profit per unit. Rest assured they use sophisticated AI pricing models fed by quite accurate information about the market. They will squeeze the last cent out optimally. People are completely powerless in the face of this.

Look at this.... There is nothing new below $500 for 1440P. And the coming 4060Ti@16GB ain't a real 1440P card. If I had 500$ I would never buy anything of the new. Nothing! Zero!

 

GPU Upgrade Recommendation

 

I rather sit on the fence or try see if I could find used cards that fits my goals. Or just ride on what I already have and buy the cheapest I can find for 1080P thats better than what I already have. 

 

If either Nvidia, Intel or AMD could offer a real 1440P card at $490/500 I expect the cards would sell in loads. 

 

If you want 1080P gaming then it's easier. Find the cheapest used card you can find. No need to pay more than absolutely necessary. Used cards will pop up. And let Nvidia and AMD burn in with the new and overpriced. 

[Etern4l]

27 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Look at this.... There is nothing new below $500 for 1440P. And the coming 4060Ti@16GB ain't a real 1440P card. If I had 500$ I would never buy anything of the new. Nothing!

 

GPU Upgrade Recommendation

 

Turns out they have enough customers who are not as knowledgeable as you, or who don't mind just dropping $2k for a graphics card. Remember, that the desktop PC market itself is in a downfall. If you are one of the very few gamers buying or building a PC today, are that worried about weak offering in the <$500 segment, when you have already spent $2k on on other components. Probably not, or you would have just gone with an Xbox or PS5 instead. They've got the pricing in hand bro, don't worry about it. The only thing that would help is some massive boycott which is not going to happen (yet).

 

Every customer who just says "* it, nothing under $500 or $1k" and drops $2k for a 4090 is a massive win for NVidia, as surely that's the highest margin card. In practice, they might have been OK with a lesser model, but the prices are constructed in such a way that the 4090 trap is just too easy to fall into, and there are games to boot, or just DLCs etc to help people rationalize the spend.

 

If NVidia came up with a gaming GPU 4x faster than 4090 tomorrow, there would be a CP2077 DLC within a month or two with boosted effects, textures whatever to just gobble it all up, or people would simply start talking about 8K gaming. It's brilliant and endless.

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Turns out they have enough customers who are not as knowledgeable as you, or who don't mind just dropping $2k for a graphics card. Remember, that the desktop PC market itself is in a downfall. If you are one of the very few gamers buying or building a PC today, are that worried about weak offering in the <$500 segment, when you have already spent $2k on on other components. Probably not, or you would have just gone with an Xbox or PS5 instead. They've got the pricing in hand bro, don't worry about it. The only thing that would help is some massive boycott which is not going to happen (yet).

 

Every customer who just says "* it, nothing under $500 or $1k" and drops $2k for a 4090 is a massive win for NVidia, as surely that's the highest margin card. In practice, they might have been OK with a lesser model, but the prices are constructed in such a way that the 4090 trap is just too easy to fall into, and there are games to boot, or just DLCs etc to help people rationalize the spend.

 

If NVidia came up with a gaming GPU 4x faster than 4090 tomorrow, there would be a CP2077 DLC within a month or two with boosted effects, textures whatever to just gobble it all up, or people would simply start talking about 8K gaming. It's brilliant and endless.

You talk about those that build new or want a new Pc. I talk more about people upgrading their graphics cards. And many of thos aren't willing to pay 20-75% higher prices vs previous gen cards. And nvidia and AMD will soon enough see the paint on the wall. If people can't afford it, they will go after the used market. This ain't for the best for nvidia and AMD. 

 

The cheapest used 3070 cost 314.82 USD here. And 6800XT is like 483 USD used. This is included tax (Because I compare all prices vs new cards). I would be damn stupid if I bought the brand new 4060Ti for $488 USD for 1080P gaming. With some ice I would probably get the 3070 below 300$ here home. And as a reminder. We have 5 years free warranty here home. 

 

No in Hell I would pay 60% more for the same experience or their new software &features.

 

300 vs the pitful 488 scalper deal  is appealing if you only intend to play 1080P (You save over 50% in cash). Even more vs 1440P gaming. Because 1440p gaming won't happen before we see close to $800 here home. Nvidia and AMD have destroyed the 1440P gaming with this gen cards.

 

People can handle their 1080P needs with ease without being scalped by nvidia and AMD. Just use what they have above their shoulders. Just don't buy any of the new fancy overpriced 4060Ti or the RX7600 cards. Then you have come a long way🙂  

[Mr. Fox]

On 5/22/2023 at 11:22 PM, Mr. Fox said:

So, I got the 13900KS from Germany. Exactly as advertised. It is in the buggy Z690 Apex right now. Needs a delid real bad, so I have it capped at 60 on all P-cores. Will do the delid and move it to the Dark mobo in a day or two. 

Looks like a strong CPU...

 

OK, so I just delidded the 13900KS. Much better temperatures. Still testing, but 58x on P-cores is fine at 1.300V static vcore. Will see if I can go lower, then see how much it needs for 60x for all P-cores.

 

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Look at this.... There is nothing new below $500 for 1440P. And the coming 4060Ti@16GB ain't a real 1440P card. If I had 500$ I would never buy anything of the new. Nothing! Zero!

 

GPU Upgrade Recommendation

 

I rather sit on the fence or try see if I could find used cards that fits my goals. Or just ride on what I already have and buy the cheapest I can find for 1080P thats better than what I already have. 

 

If either Nvidia, Intel or AMD could offer a real 1440P card at $490/500 I expect the cards would sell in loads. 

 

If you want 1080P gaming then it's easier. Find the cheapest used card you can find. No need to pay more than absolutely necessary. Used cards will pop up. And let Nvidia and AMD burn in with the new and overpriced. 

 

I mentioned this a few days ago in my post along with here too showing strategically limiting their memory, memory bus and core counts that Nvidia (and AMD to a degree too) is forcing their GPUs in their product stack into tiers along with price hikes. ADA is too powerful and if they were to offer a 4060ti series die with a 256-bit bus and even 12GB (let alone 16GB) at $399.99 with the same shaders as the 3060ti you suddenly do not need much else to game at 1440p for many use cases. How do you create a center stack before up-selling the 4080 and 4090 for 4k then?

 

Everyone thinks Nvidia should have made a 4060ti with 16GB and a memory bus and core counts like the 3060ti for the same price but that just makes no sense business wise except to the consumer who always wants more for less.

 

Sub $500, 1080p (With varying degrees of setting enabled depending on Vram/GPU aka 4060ti 16GB at 499.99)

 

Sub $1000, 1440p (" ")

>=1000, 4k (" ")

 

"More for Less" is not something Jensen will ever subscribe to but with poor economical conditions world wide, GPU saturation and a slowly turning tide in resentment on GPU pricing overall, hopefully a lesson can be taught.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

Looks like vcore of 1.290V is the bottom for 58x on all P-cores. Quite an improvement from the 1.350V needed for 56x on the 13900K. It might go a little lower with adaptive voltage, but probably not worth burning any more calories on it. I think this is good enough. Time to go up on the multis.

 

[Papusan]

5 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Sub $500, 1080p (With varying degrees of setting enabled depending on Vram/GPU aka 4060ti 16GB at 499.99)

 

Sub $1000, 1440p (" ")

>=1000, 4k (" ")

 

"More for Less" is not something Jensen will ever subscribe to but with poor economical conditions world wide, GPU saturation and a slowly turning tide in resentment on GPU pricing overall, hopefully a lesson can be taught.

Yep, there is nothing in between. Gamers on (limited) budget should just buy a used card for 1080P gaming. Pay +400$ or 488$ here home for about the same experience is just stupid. Now, one just need to find the best deals for 1440P. Or go for 4090.  The "in middle" is a mess. 

 

 

And this don't stop the fire. Stupid is the new normal. What good would a brand new ATX 3.0 PSU do better than my 1 year old Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 - 1500W PSU with 2x native 12VHPWR adapter cables from the PSU manufacturer? They all use same 12VHPWR connector all over. The only difference is the connector on the PSU side. Single vs dual connector point. And to make it less appealing. You get the dreaded tiny fragile 12VHPWR connector instead for a real massive 8/12 pin power connector for the PSU connection🙂

 

So the best safeguard against the issue is probably to avoid using any adapter and simply "upgrade to an ATX 3.0 PSU". 

 

https://www.techspot.com/news/98819-users-report-melting-16-pin-rtx-4090-power.html

 

There is no need to use the added adapter from the GPU box or buy a custom made cable/adapter. Neither is it a need to buy a ATX 3.0 PSU. Just buy the recommended cable from the PSU  manufacturer. You will still risk the same fire regardless what option you go with. The ATX 3.0 PSU won't change that facts. And for what good is it to have double up with the tiny small weak 12VHPWR connectors for your shiny ATX 3.0 PSU? @Mr. Fox😀 You only get double up with the hated new and modern power connector, LOOL

[electrosoft]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Looks like vcore of 1.290V is the bottom for 58x on all P-cores. Quite an improvement from the 1.350V needed for 56x on the 13900K. It might go a little lower with adaptive voltage, but probably not worth burning any more calories on it. I think this is good enough. Time to go up on the multis.

 

 

 

"And the understatement of the year award goes to....well will you look at that.... @Mr. Fox!"

 

Seriously though, that is a much better specimen than your other chip.

 

11 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, there is nothing in between. Gamers on (limited) budget should just buy a used card for 1080P gaming. Pay +400$ or 488$ here home for about the same experience is just stupid. Now, one just need to find the best deals for 1440P. Or go for 4090.  The "in middle" is a mess. 

 

 

And this don't stop the fire. Stupid is the new normal. What good would a brand new ATX 3.0 PSU do better than my 1 year old 1500W PSU with 2x native 12VHPWR adapter cables from the PSU manufacturer? They all use same 12VHPWR connector all over.

 

So the best safeguard against the issue is probably to avoid using any adapter and simply "upgrade to an ATX 3.0 PSU". 

 

https://www.techspot.com/news/98819-users-report-melting-16-pin-rtx-4090-power.html

 

Remember when the techtubers and sites were commenting on it was odd for Nvidia to introduce the 4090 first before the 4080 as that was out of their normal process (xx80 first, then halo product).....

 

As for the 12VHPWR,  the problem is on the GPU end but if every burnt connector can be verified to come from non ATX 3.0 power supplies there may be a connection. On the other hand, I suspect the sheer amount of non ATX 3.0 power supplies powering the 12VHPWR connector vastly out number those with the ATX 3.0.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Papusan]

5 hours ago, electrosoft said:

As for the 12VHPWR,  the problem is on the GPU end but if every burnt connector can be verified to come from non ATX 3.0 power supplies there may be a connection. On the other hand, I suspect the sheer amount of non ATX 3.0 power supplies powering the 12VHPWR connector vastly out number those with the ATX 3.0.

What you really get with an fully spec'd ATX 3.0 PSU. Same cable but with double up of the hated small 12VHPWR connectors😎 Can't beat that... Huuuuhuuu. Maybe you'll see smoke on both ends, LOOOOOL

 

5 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Remember when the techtubers and sites were commenting on it was odd for Nvidia to introduce the 4090 first before the 4080 as that was out of their normal process (xx80 first, then halo product).....

 

With the 1200$ price point as first card... Nvidia wooould be killed by the reviewers. Start a new launch with a card priced 72% above previous gen. I can't imagine how that would be. More likely more damaging than we aready have seen🙂

[Reciever]

All of a sudden xfire and sli start to make sense again. 

 

Look at the product stack, nothing looks appealing. Double up on what you have? Sure I guess. 

 

Too bad that option is off the table now. 

[Mr. Fox]

26 minutes ago, Reciever said:

Too bad that option is off the table now. 

Probably planned that way. When the Green Goblin still supported SLI it took 3 or 4 generations of improvement for a single GPU in the same performance level to match 2x SLI. Money didn't come as easy for them as it does now. They actually had to earn it by releasing something special enough to beat the SLI setup.

---

OK, so 60x all P-core, bumped ring to 51x. vcore needed is 1.400V.

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

OK, so 60x all P-core, bumped ring to 51x. vcore needed is 1.400V.

 

My bad. The E-cores were not at 48x. Now they are. The extra 200MHz on the baby cores does make a difference. Same voltage (1.400V vCore).

 

[Papusan]

I wonder what cable/adapter was used. But posted on CableMod/reddit. What is a day without new black screens due the 12VHPWR 🙂 It was the E-series 12VHPWR cable.

 

 

12vhpwr adapter just broke my 4080 Suprim.

 

A couple of days before and he talked about 8 adapters. Suddenly 20 failures, Hmmm

 

I wonder how many they are with the real numbers.

[Etern4l]

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Probably Without a shadow of a doubt planned that way. When the Green Goblin still supported SLI it took 3 or 4 generations of improvement for a single GPU in the same performance level to match 2x SLI. Money didn't come as easy for them as it does now. They actually had to earn it by releasing something special enough to beat the SLI setup.

 

The killing of SLI/NVLink also ensures that those who actually need the latter must pay double/triple the price for essentially the same hardware, but in the workstation variant. I suppose we should be grateful NVidia hardware doesn't require paid subscription to receive driver updates, or permanently deactivates/driver support is dropped  after 3 years.

 

Meanwhile Nvidia stock is up 30% on AI. 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-24/nvidia-s-rosy-forecast-shows-chipmaker-benefiting-from-ai-boom

[Papusan]

4060ti or 4070 for 1080P 144hz?

I plan to not upgrade for the next 5-10 years.... Oh my gosh.

 

[Etern4l]

22 minutes ago, Papusan said:

4060ti or 4070 for 1080P 144hz?

I plan to not upgrade for the next 5-10 years.... Oh my gosh.

 

 

I wonder if devs like this get any incentives from GPU manufacturers. I played the game just fine on the PS3 which has 256MB of VRAM :) 

[Papusan]

8 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

I wonder if devs like this get any incentives from GPU manufacturers. I played the game just fine on the PS3 which has 256MB of VRAM 🙂

I'm sure it will come to the consols as well.... Xbox Series S Suffers from VRAM Limitations, Just Like 

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

I'm sure it will come to the consols as well.... Xbox Series S Suffers from VRAM Limitations, Just Like 

 

The perception of limitation comes from the relentless push for minute improvements in graphics quality which, in case of games with good story/mechanics, have little to no impact on the overall experience.

 

With consoles the paradigm is more sensible: here is the hardware - keep producing content that works well on this for the next five years+, instead of essentially just lining NVidia's pockets. No $2000 upgrades required basically just to escape reality for a while. 

[Mr. Fox]

Electronics and technology are a racket and organized crime ring.

[Etern4l]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Electronics and technology are a racket and organized crime ring.

 

Another sig-worthy classic :)

[tps3443]

10 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

My bad. The E-cores were not at 48x. Now they are. The extra 200MHz on the baby cores does make a difference. Same voltage (1.400V vCore).

 

That’s awesome. Much better cpu that KS is. Once they are all delidded and on direct die, no matter the SP they all are in a similar range with one another.
 

I would push the ring and see where it goes. Some odd ball KS can run 5.4 ring perfectly fine. Several of my 13900K could do 5.3 ring even. May as well max it out lol. 
 

My KS can only run 5.1 tops stable. But yours can probably go 5.2 or even 5.3.