*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[jaybee83]

14 hours ago, tps3443 said:

It looks like Newegg has officially sold out of the 13900K, and sold out of the 13900KF. 

They also changed the status from “Pre-Order” to “Recently Released”

 

I’ve been checking it daily 🤪

 

I am probably gonna keep my 3090 Kingpin Hydro Copper. My original thinking was passing on the RTX4090. And I think I will go back to that mind set.

 

Also, a peak at the Z790 Dark motherboard I found online.

 

 

 

 

 

LET THE 4090 SCALPING BEGIN!!!!

 

 

 

 

ius Newegg drunk or smth? wth... i also saw someone post on Ebay, offering 4090s from "various brands" with availability "on 12th Oct onwards" for 3500-4000€. completely nuts. i hope both of them will be left with their d***s hanging out when they realize NO one will be buying from them....

 

13 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

So much good data will pour in between our sole 7950x victim, er, buyer @jaybee83 and the few of you picking up 13th gen.

 

Whether due to Nvidia withholding chips or buyers buying, but there are barely any 3090ti and 3090's to be found out in the wild new atm. Even most of the 3080's all all flavors are drying up.

 

With market conditions as they are, if anyone pays those outlandish prices for a marked up 4090, that's on them.

 

And yeah, I continue to go back and forth over the 4090 but with market conditions and AMD right around the corner, I do expect either the 4090ti to drop sooner than later, pricing on the 4090 to drop sooner than later or both. Let's see how tomorrow's reviews alter our perspective. 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

oi! HAPPY victim, aight? Stockholm Syndrome FTW! 🤣 but jokes aside, im not expecting that much of a difference betwen 13900K and 7950X. my prediction: depending on the games and productivity tools tested, some reviews will see the 13900K ahead, while others will crown the 7950X instead. and in the context of the whole platform and longevity / future upgrades, AMD just makes waaaay more sense to me than a few % more performance in select games / programs (worst case).

 

as for the 4090Ti, rumour mill is saying that Nvidia for now is holding back on launching a Ti / Titan Lovelace card since theyre having trouble with heat n power consumption lulz. so dont expecting anything like that so launch soon, rather a year or so from now...

[Etern4l]

9 hours ago, Papusan said:

Stay below 0.6Nm. I would say even well below 0.5Nm. Hand tight the screws with a force of your thumb and index finger is good enough (both the bend fix frame and the water block). You don't need a torque screw driver for this. 

 

See also.. https://www.igorslab.de/cpu-temperaturen-im-rahmen-thermal-grizzly-thermalright-jeyi-und-feng-zao-lga1700-frames-im-vergleichstest/3/

 

Brilliant, many thanks bro. Actually it looks like the Thermalright CF is the most stable of them all, and seems that that's the one I got from Amazon, even though the listing didn't specify this explicitly.

Obviously, when it comes to replacing the CPU with Raptor Lake, one would have to remove the CF and put the Intel ILM back in first Any potential trouble there?

 

7 hours ago, Reciever said:

Hey guys so I have a local listing for 9800GX2's only reason I am bringing it to the forums attention and specifically here is because he has around 20 in inventory. 

 

Anyone want in? 

 

Brings back some memories. TBH probably best to write those off, hard to see who would need them, especially in the current market conditions.

 

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

II bet they are already culling the best samples for 13900KS, LOL. It will be hard watching others romp all over my 12900KS with the extra baby cores, but it will be worth it when I buy the KS.

 

Yeah, same here - think I will wait for the KS. Remember reading all the unflattering comments when trying to decide between 12900K and KS: "pointless, too hot etc.". Actually, it's pretty much just a factory binned and tuned 12900K for $150 extra, and it can run cool or hot depending on how you want it. Mine runs with a -125mV undervolt at around 220W/75C (5.2Ghz all core) under full load (360 AIO) which is much better than what I expected after reading all the online hate 😉

 

On the other hand, it's a bit of a d1ck move from Intel not to open up with a flagship, but instead first release a sub-flagship, hoping that desperate enthusiasts will end up buying two "flagships" instead of one.

 

Same thing with Nvidia and their Ti, which we can safely assume is already production ready as well.

 

Nice rig BTW. My next rig will be full hydro as well I think, given how slim WCed graphics cards are - def way to go for multi-gpu builds.

 

 

[Etern4l]

33 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

im not expecting that much of a difference betwen 13900K and 7950X. my prediction: depending on the games and productivity tools tested, some reviews will see the 13900K ahead, while others will crown the 7950X instead. and in the context of the whole platform and longevity / future upgrades, AMD just makes waaaay more sense to me than a few % more performance in select games / programs (worst case).

 

 

That's the thing, right - a lot depends on the use case. Gamers are in the fortunate situation of having everything benchmarked nicely for them, and here the situation is clear - the best CPU available currently is... the AM4 5800x 3DX 😄

 

I actually love Ryzen 7 in principle:

* No e-Cores - these really need Windows 11 and a lot of scheduling magic to use efectively, although I have to say W11 does a great job - massive difference vs W10 (if only one didn't have to spend time manually disabling bloatware such as the Capability Access Manager Service!)

* Large cache

* AVX-512 - the trouble here is that this is 99% a marketing gimmick. The popular libraries which put AVX512 to some use are (mostly/exclusively) developed by Intel. These libraries detect AMD chips and severely gimp performance.

 

Unfortuantely, on the scientifc side there is a huge reliance on Intel libraries, which means that the effective performance of the Intel platform will be much better in practice (we are talking about 2x-10x difference in some cases). Maybe AMD will finally invest in their own optimised libraries at some point, but until that happens they are removing themselves from a good chunk of the high-end market.

 

[cylix]

4090 is a monster! 4k gains are massive!

 

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

* No e-Cores - these really need Windows 11 and a lot of scheduling magic to use efectively, although I have to say W11 does a great job - massive difference vs W10 (if only one didn't have to spend time manually disabling bloatware such as the Capability Access Manager Service!)

I'm not seeing it. People say it all the time, but it is absolutely untrue the way I use my computers. The opposite is true. Windows 11 performance is degraded from Windows 10, just as Windows 10 performance degraded from Windows 7. But, I do not allow Windows to make decisions. Maybe some of that is actually true if you allow Windows to control performance and power consumption. I wouldn't know because that's not how my systems operate. Power limits are maxed out and fixed P, E and Ring clock ratios and voltage values are applied in the BIOS, and the Windows power plan has everything maxed out. No need for AI, or scheduling, or power management. I hate that kind of nonsense. It makes every version of Windows run faster with me calling all of the shots, and every new version of Windows performs worse than the one before it.

[Etern4l]

46 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I'm not seeing it. People say it all the time, but it is absolutely untrue the way I use my computers. The opposite is true. Windows 11 performance is degraded from Windows 10, just as Windows 10 performance degraded from Windows 7. But, I do not allow Windows to make decisions. Maybe some of that is actually true if you allow Windows to control performance and power consumption. I wouldn't know because that's not how my systems operate. Power limits are maxed out and fixed P, E and Ring clock ratios and voltage values are applied in the BIOS, and the Windows power plan has everything maxed out. No need for AI, or scheduling, or power management. I hate that kind of nonsense. It makes every version of Windows run faster with me calling all of the shots, and every new version of Windows performs worse than the one before it.

 

The way one uses their computers could indeed be a factor. Perhaps setting fixed core ratios does help somehow.

I didn't see much difference in any standard benchmarks putting the system under 100% load such as CB23. The problem manifests itself through Windows suddenly assigning workloads to E-Cores, while P-Cores are idle, no matter what the load. Often this would only happen many hours of operation in, not sure why.  High-performance Windows 10 power settings would make no difference (in contrast to Win 11 where AL system behaviour changes very noticeably in response to a change to Windows power settings, I found). If you don't see that behaviour ever, you are good.

 

Intel themselves recommend Win 11 for Alder Lake+, and there are fairly in-depth papers online where they explain why (basically the scheduler has more information available to it in Win 11).

 

On the flip side, Win 11 was def less stable than Win 10 for my system, as regards mem OC primarily I believe, so from an extreme OC-er's perspective definitely a concern.

 

For anyone unsure, probably best to start Win 10, do all the tuning and benching, upgrade to Win 11, and move back to Win 10 if necessary. I flipped back and forth like that a few times before I settled on the final setup with no issues.

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, cylix said:

4090 is a monster! 4k gains are massive!

 

 

Yep, Nvidia def delivered the goods this time, also the FE card seems well engineered, except for perhaps the power connector placement. Need to do measurements to see if my case has enough height for it + the connector 😕

 

Anyone knows if card width figures are given with or without the board PCIe connector overhang? I am hoping the former lol

Edit: Apparently the width includes the PCIe connector, i.e. it's the distance C below. Probably still won't fit my case, at least not without removing a 200mm side-radiator. Ridiculous design. OK AIB card it is then.

 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

Intel themselves recommend Win 11 for Alder Lake+, and there are fairly in-depth papers online where they explain why (basically the scheduler has more information available to it in Win 11).

And the benchers recommend Win 10 for some benches, same for win 7 and Win XP. Not many use Win 11 for going after best performance. There is several fixes for the thread scheduler. Processor lasso is one of them. No need for Win 11 to make use of the different cores. 

4 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Brilliant, many thanks bro. Actually it looks like the Thermalright CF is the most stable of them all, and seems that that's the one I got from Amazon, even though the listing didn't specify this explicitly.

Obviously, when it comes to replacing the CPU with Raptor Lake, one would have to remove the CF and put the Intel ILM back in first Any potential trouble there?

Shouldn't be. I would wait for tests to see if the bend frames maded for socket 1700 have a positive inpact on temps for Raptor lake. Or just test it for yourself. 

 

4090 FE reviewed...

Review: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Founder edition guru3d.com

By Hilbert Hagedoorn on: 10/11/2022 03:00 PM | 65 comment(s) ]

NVIDIA unveiled their much-anticipated Series 4000 graphics cards, beginning with the GeForce RTX 4090 founder edition. The new graphics card provides great performance, more extensive raytracing features, and DLSS 3.0 thanks to upgraded Tensor cores. Join us for a thorough assessment.

Read the review here.

 

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 review: Fantastically, futuristically fast pcworld.com

Nvidia's monstrous GeForce RTX 4090 delivers luxuriously fast frame rates and futuristic features, but DLSS 3 may be the real star.

 

 

The GeForce RTX 4090 is so fast that it can sometimes run into CPU bottlenecks even playing at 4K resolution with the eye candy maxed in some games, but esports games and older DirectX 11 titles don’t necessarily push it to its blistering limits. The 4090 is just 36 percent faster than the 3090 in Total War: Troy—a solid result, but one dwarfed by the advances in DX12 and Vulkan games. Likewise, while the RTX 4090 easily tops the CS:GO benchmark charts, the meager frame rate improvements at 4K and 1080p show that this long-established DirectX 9 title doesn’t have much more to give to Ada Lovelace’s might.

 

The GeForce RTX 4090 embarrasses all previous GPU contenders in all games, full stop. The uplift isn’t quite as convincing in esports and DirectX11 titles, but the victories are there, and in games running the more modern DX12 and Vulkan APIs, the RTX 4090 is anywhere from 55 to 83 percent faster than the RTX 3090. That’s on par with the RTX 3080’s uplift over the RTX 2080. AndJensen said 3080 was 100% performance uplift above 2080 Ti.

[Etern4l]

18 minutes ago, Papusan said:

And the benchers recommend Win 10 for some benches, same for win 7 and Win XP. Not many use Win 11 for going after best performance. There is several fixes for the thread scheduler. processor lasso is one of them. No need for Win 11 to make use of the different cores.

 

 

Interesting, Processor Lasso looks like it would have been worth a try. Things are running fine now, I think I will just wait until a Linux kernel with proper AL support makes it to mainstream distros. 

 

18 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Shouldn't be. I would wait for tests to see if the bend frames maded for socket 1700 have a positive inpact on temps for Raptor lake. Or just test it for yourself. 

 

 

 

Yeah, good advice, although tempted to just give it a test now as I am going to have to take the cooler off anyway soon. Got hit with the Arctic Freezer gasket issue. Arctic just sent me the repair kit...

 

Haven't decided whether to jump from 12900KS to 13900K at launch or wait, but leaning towards the latter.

[electrosoft]

JayZ: "The uplift generation on generation  of the 4090FE over the 3090TI is anywhere between 50-77% average fps"

 

HWU: "The 4090 was on average 59% faster than the 3090ti in 4k gaming"

 

Who here said the uplift was going to be 50-70% in gaming over and over based on past data?

 

THIS GUY!

 

Card is a monster though.

 

Absolute beast.

 

RT uplift is nice too.

 

I'll wait for a few WoW fans who bench this stuff extensively to see their results especially with Dragonflight around the corner.

 

TI variant is going to be a wrecking ball this time around too when it launches.

 

Your move AMD. 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ashtrix]

Only TPU has some respectable list of titles, many of them use pathetic list on top even Guru3D written articles also have almost same list of titles.

 

The card is nowhere where Nvidia screams and pushes their Green Goblin PR BS engine,Yep the card is fast. But the price markup is pure BS in this economic state of American market and world wide financial situation. Expecting RTX4090Ti to be at-least 20-30% faster than 4090 and next the price also from $1900+ fixing the RTX5090 at $2500 AIB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like the card is built for 4K resolution only. And it's worthless at 1080P resolution and shrinks with 1440P as well.

 

Not a single Youtuber benched on Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition which had RTGI and only title worth of RT tag.

 

SOTTR has RT shadows, why would I waste on that garbage ? Control is decent BUT it's all RT Reflections which is waste like BF V, DOOM Eternal also emphasizes more on RT Reflections they even have Ballista skin for Ray tracing in sheen silver. Pointless garbage. F1 lol let's move on..

 

Cyberjoke, is a joke of a title on all fronts. Here's Enxgma playlist the guy butchered when it came out along with a ton of others, he has latest 1.6 patch comparison too the point is not just bugs and glitches. The entire game is still hollow, not sure how much I would like to play in a depraved city, as if current CA state is not enough.. well news flash, the gas hit sky high in CA $6.46/Gallon. Add the Anime PR BS marketing shot it to moon, now expect far worse titles with extremely high PR marketing and lowest quality in AAA.

 

 

FC6 personally horrendous game, here's a review if anyone wants to go through, a regurgitated garbage with horrendous politics. Dump the Watch Dogs Legion into it (You have Albion muh Fascist corporation and who are the enemies ? the people of England lol, well now why not look at the State of UK right now anyways) And it has worst GFX, guess what ? Ubitrash's titles all are same now. AC Unity shreds all of these new titles to hell and it came eons ago check that out below too (The RT mod is Reshade  RTGI one), well the franchise also is dead since the Origins pseudo RPG nonsense. Unity was last worthy title in AC franchise. Maybe if you extend Syndicate a slight.

 

 

Basically worthless AAA titles for $1600 - $2000 GPU at 4K. Maybe for older titles at 4K ? But those already peaked in performance from what I can recall. Hey at-least I can get the DLSS3 numbers to drool.

 

[jaybee83]

6 minutes ago, Ashtrix said:

Only TPU has some respectable list of titles, many of them use pathetic list on top even Guru3D written articles also have almost same list of titles.

 

The card is nowhere where Nvidia screams and pushes their Green Goblin PR BS engine,Yep the card is fast. But the price markup is pure BS in this economic state of American market and world wide financial situation. Expecting RTX4090Ti to be at-least 20-30% faster than 4090 and next the price also from $1900+ fixing the RTX5090 at $2500 AIB.

 

 

 

 

Looks like the card is built for 4K resolution only. And it's worthless at 1080P resolution and shrinks with 1440P as well.

 

Not a single Youtuber benched on Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition which had RTGI and only title worth of RT tag.

 

SOTTR has RT shadows, why would I waste on that garbage ? Control is decent BUT it's all RT Reflections which is waste like BF V, DOOM Eternal also emphasizes more on RT Reflections they even have Ballista skin for Ray tracing in sheen silver. Pointless garbage. F1 lol let's move on..

 

Cyberjoke, is a joke of a title on all fronts. Here's Enxgma playlist the guy butchered when it came out along with a ton of others, he has latest 1.6 patch comparison too the point is not just bugs and glitches. The entire game is still hollow, not sure how much I would like to play in a depraved city, as if current CA state is not enough.. well news flash, the gas hit sky high in CA $6.46/Gallon. Add the Anime PR BS marketing shot it to moon, now expect far worse titles with extremely high PR marketing and lowest quality in AAA.

 

 

FC6 personally horrendous game, here's a review if anyone wants to go through, a regurgitated garbage with horrendous politics. Dump the Watch Dogs Legion into it (You have Albion muh Fascist corporation and who are the enemies ? the people of England lol, well now why not look at the State of UK right now anyways) And it has worst GFX, guess what ? Ubitrash's titles all are same now. AC Unity shreds all of these new titles to hell and it came eons ago check that out below too.

 

 

 

Basically worthless AAA titles for $1600 - $2000 GPU at 4K. Maybe for older titles at 4K ? But those already peaked in performance from what I can recall. Hey at-least I can get the DLSS3 numbers to drool.

 

 

thats pretty much the sad state of gaming atm: we have a gpu that is so blistering fast that it even bottlenecks current highend cpus at 4K, but at the same time basically all current and newer games are horse crap...

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

TI variant is going to be a wrecking ball this time around too when it launches.

 

Why? Does it look like they are holding a lot of performance out at the moment and will suddenly bump CUDA cores by 20%+ with the Ti? Is there a market appetite for $2000 cards anymore? Does it make sense to make the flagship card even bigger? TBH we don't even know how well the 4090 sells and judging by the poor sales of Ryzen 7 it could be a rough period for Nvidia and the market in general. Many people literally won't be able to fit these cards in their PCs.

[Reciever]

7 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Brilliant, many thanks bro. Actually it looks like the Thermalright CF is the most stable of them all, and seems that that's the one I got from Amazon, even though the listing didn't specify this explicitly.

Obviously, when it comes to replacing the CPU with Raptor Lake, one would have to remove the CF and put the Intel ILM back in first Any potential trouble there?

 

 

Brings back some memories. TBH probably best to write those off, hard to see who would need them, especially in the current market conditions.

 

 

Yeah, same here - think I will wait for the KS. Remember reading all the unflattering comments when trying to decide between 12900K and KS: "pointless, too hot etc.". Actually, it's pretty much just a factory binned and tuned 12900K for $150 extra, and it can run cool or hot depending on how you want it. Mine runs with a -125mV undervolt at around 220W/75C (5.2Ghz all core) under full load (360 AIO) which is much better than what I expected after reading all the online hate 😉

 

On the other hand, it's a bit of a d1ck move from Intel not to open up with a flagship, but instead first release a sub-flagship, hoping that desperate enthusiasts will end up buying two "flagships" instead of one.

 

Same thing with Nvidia and their Ti, which we can safely assume is already production ready as well.

 

Nice rig BTW. My next rig will be full hydro as well I think, given how slim WCed graphics cards are - def way to go for multi-gpu builds.

 

 

Its mostly nostalgia purchase but also buying in advance of the coming winter for some hwbot submissions.

 

Slows down considerably at work usually as well so I'll be remoting home running benchmarks and putting in more work into the forum :) 

 

The only bummer is they arent EVGA branded (not that it really matters functionally), they are PNY XLR8 cards.

[Tenoroon]

2 minutes ago, Reciever said:

Its mostly nostalgia purchase but also buying in advance of the coming winter for some hwbot submissions.

 

Slows down considerably at work usually as well so I'll be remoting home running benchmarks and putting in more work into the forum 🙂

 

The only bummer is they arent EVGA branded (not that it really matters functionally), they are PNY XLR8 cards.

Where did he get 20 of them though? That's my big question.

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Ashtrix said:

Only TPU has some respectable list of titles, many of them use pathetic list on top even Guru3D written articles also have almost same list of titles.

 

The card is nowhere where Nvidia screams and pushes their Green Goblin PR BS engine,Yep the card is fast. But the price markup is pure BS in this economic state of American market and world wide financial situation. Expecting RTX4090Ti to be at-least 20-30% faster than 4090 and next the price also from $1900+ fixing the RTX5090 at $2500 AIB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like the card is built for 4K resolution only. And it's worthless at 1080P resolution and shrinks with 1440P as well.

 

Not a single Youtuber benched on Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition which had RTGI and only title worth of RT tag.

 

SOTTR has RT shadows, why would I waste on that garbage ? Control is decent BUT it's all RT Reflections which is waste like BF V, DOOM Eternal also emphasizes more on RT Reflections they even have Ballista skin for Ray tracing in sheen silver. Pointless garbage. F1 lol let's move on..

 

Cyberjoke, is a joke of a title on all fronts. Here's Enxgma playlist the guy butchered when it came out along with a ton of others, he has latest 1.6 patch comparison too the point is not just bugs and glitches. The entire game is still hollow, not sure how much I would like to play in a depraved city, as if current CA state is not enough.. well news flash, the gas hit sky high in CA $6.46/Gallon. Add the Anime PR BS marketing shot it to moon, now expect far worse titles with extremely high PR marketing and lowest quality in AAA.

 

 

FC6 personally horrendous game, here's a review if anyone wants to go through, a regurgitated garbage with horrendous politics. Dump the Watch Dogs Legion into it (You have Albion muh Fascist corporation and who are the enemies ? the people of England lol, well now why not look at the State of UK right now anyways) And it has worst GFX, guess what ? Ubitrash's titles all are same now. AC Unity shreds all of these new titles to hell and it came eons ago check that out below too.

 

 

 

Basically worthless AAA titles for $1600 - $2000 GPU at 4K. Maybe for older titles at 4K ? But those already peaked in performance from what I can recall. Hey at-least I can get the DLSS3 numbers to drool.

 

 

Fair assessment.

 

Nvidia (like AMD) will tell you it will toot rainbows if it will move units.

 

It always comes down to what games do you play / general usage requirements and is it worth the performance uplift?

 

Looking at all the games being released in the next 6-12 months, I'm only going to be playing WoW and Fallout 76. Playing on a 60hz 4k G-Sync display it is more avoiding the lows than the highs. If I stick with this 144hz 5120x1440 LG (which pixel wise is a hair under 4k)? It now becomes about the highs and lows.

 

I like bench marking but it doesn't drive my purchases.....ever.

 

You are getting much more value from the 4090 price vs performance than you are the 3090 on launch but that still doesn't negate the yet another price increase. The point is the 3090 price was outlandishly priced especially compared to the 3080 on launch. Nvidia fixed that REAL quick simply by jacking up the price of the 4080 and unashamedly turning the 4070 into a 4080 lite model to jack its price up too. They have shifted the top three tier cards (XX90, XX80, XX70) upward effectively by $100, $500 and $400 which is insultingly gross.

 

This will be a true test of market conditions over the next 3-6 months with a world wide recession, inflation and AMD coming into play. These are not going to sell out and will be in stock and prices overall will only go DOWN so no need to rush out and buy anything atm. We need to shake the supply/demand askew mentality of 2020->early 2022 and realize things will be available and market conditions are in favor of the consumer once again.

 

 

[Papusan]

28 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Why? Are they holding a lot out and the moment and will suddenly bump CUDA cores by 20%+ with the Ti? Is there a market appetite for $2000 cards anymore? TBH we don't even know how well the 4090 sells and judging by the poor sales of Ryzen 7 it could be a rough period for Nvidia and the market in general. Many people literally won't be able to fit these cards in their PCs.

Full fat AD102 die is 18176 cores. 4090 is 16384 or come with sub 11% less cores. Nvidia need to push out much faster vram, a lot higher TDP and clocks for 4090Ti to make it perform +20% faster. 

[electrosoft]

34 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Why? Are they holding a lot out and the moment and will suddenly bump CUDA cores by 20%+ with the Ti? Is there a market appetite for $2000 cards anymore? TBH we don't even know how well the 4090 sells and judging by the poor sales of Ryzen 7 it could be a rough period for Nvidia and the market in general. Many people literally won't be able to fit these cards in their PCs.

 

What we do know is the 4090 is a decent upgrade over the 3090ti. The 4090ti with a 10- 20% bump would just extend that even moreso but the pricing is just normalizing into a massive class separation where if you want decent performance upgrade you are going to have to part with serious coin not only for the GPU itself but the PSU and potentially a case as you point out.

 

As for sales flopping, I hope all of this comes true and that poor Ryzen sales are more a reflection of market conditions than AMD themselves. I don't want a $2k 4090ti either to be the new norm.

 

We are at a precarious point here in regards to pricing moving forward and hopefully the market downturn and AMD (along with Ampere stalling in late cycle sales) will force Nvidia to react accordingly. There is also the specter of AMD being greedy like with the 7000 series and pricing themselves at or only a hair under Nvidia.

 

I'm hoping AMD comes in guns blazing and offers either incredible performance to compete, pricing to force Nvidia to react or both.

 

Or none of this will come to fruition and it will just be business as usual.

 

Oh, and welcome back to the fold brother! 🙂

 

 

 

[Etern4l]

@PapusanExactly. With 3090 Ti they increased the number of cores by around 2%.... While they do have some thermal headroom due to the ridiculous card dimensions (4090 runs cooler than 3090 ti), IMHO they will struggle to offer more than +10% real performance improvement with the Ti (+20% in the keynote/official announcement :D). I guess they could throw in a sweetener such as DP 2.0 support. 

[Reciever]

18 minutes ago, Tenoroon said:

Where did he get 20 of them though? That's my big question.

decommissioned systems

[Etern4l]

9 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

as for the 4090Ti, rumour mill is saying that Nvidia for now is holding back on launching a Ti / Titan Lovelace card since theyre having trouble with heat n power consumption lulz. so dont expecting anything like that so launch soon, rather a year or so from now...

 

BTW let's not confuse Ti with Titan. The last true Titan card was RTX Titan. Perhaps the main difference is that FP64 performance is chopped by half in all gaming cards, including the Ti (Titan with no tan?). This is done in an effort to prevent the gaming cards from undercutting their high margin professional offerings (Axxxx, Quadro etc).

[tps3443]

The RTX4090 is very fast. But we’ve almost reached a point where we don’t even need all that lol. It would be fun for sure. But, I play at 2560x1440P. I’m just not a fan of a 4K monitor yet. 
 

 

4090 is awesome. But not needed at all. It throws down at high res though!!! 

[jaybee83]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

BTW let's not confuse Ti with Titan. The last true Titan card was RTX Titan. Perhaps the main difference is that FP64 performance is chopped by half in all gaming cards, including the Ti (Titan with no tan?). This is done in an effort to prevent the gaming cards from undercutting their high margin professional offerings (Axxxx, Quadro etc).

semantics 🙂 same with naming it "Tea Ay" or "Tie" (Fighter) 😛 i have the feeling that depending on how far ahead they are vs. AMD they name it the former (Titan = ahead by a wide margin) or the latter (Ti ahead but trading blows)

 

4 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

The RTX4090 is very fast. But we’ve almost reached a point where we don’t even need all that lol. It would be fun for sure. But, I play at 2560x1440P. I’m just not a fan of a 4K monitor yet. 
 

 

4090 is awesome. But not needed at all. It throws down at high res though!!! 

 

word. 1440p drives the 4090 into a cpu bottleneck, doesnt matter which cpu u use. and even at 4K some games push it into the cpu limit, its insane 😄 

[Etern4l]

33 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

semantics 🙂 same with naming it "Tea Ay" or "Tie" (Fighter) 😛 i have the feeling that depending on how far ahead they are vs. AMD they name it the former (Titan = ahead by a wide margin) or the latter (Ti ahead but trading blows)

 

 

Not at all. As I was trying to explain, Titan was a different product class, above Ti. Titan RTX was released a month after 2080 Ti, and cost 2x as much at launch...

[Papusan]

Why? Because they went the Dell route and prefer less noise over offering max cooling performance? 4090 use less power than previous 3090 Ti in benches/games and still run hotter. This with less power consumption. Here there should be some improvements from the AIB partners air cooled cards. Yep, not all run their cards fans at max rpm, but why cap the fan's maximum cooling performance.

 

All this reminds me about how POW castrated their GTX 580 cards cooling capacity with an added 75% fan rpm cap in the vbios. A stupid move if boost bins determines out from max gpu temps. Aka lower temps will provide higher boost clocks.

 

To finish up my testing I of course had to check out the cooling performance. To do this I ran two different tests. I used AIDA64’s Stress Test run for a half-hour each to warm things up. Then I documented what temperature the GPU leveled out at with the stock fan profile and then again with the fans cranked up to 100%. With the stock profile, the Nvidia RTX 4090 Founders Edition did better than I expected it to do given its power levels. I leveled off at 77c which is up in the top ¼ of our charts but is lower than cards like the GTX 1080 and 1080Ti did and just one degree above the RTX 3080. Then with the fans cranked up, the RTX 4090 Founders Edition cooled down but not nearly as much as any of the other cards I’ve tested in the past with it running 67c at full fan speed on both fans. This shows that while the cooler did great with the stock profile, there isn’t too much headroom left in it. I would say that Nvidia’s fan profile is spot on to offer good cooling while keeping the noise down relatively. Of course, if they ran the fans at similar speeds to past Founders Edition cards there would be more headroom left. The RTX 3090 Ti which is a similarly sized card was running cooler at 73c under load and 61c at 100% fan speed which means it had a little more headroom at 12c. 

 

https://lanoc.org/review/video-cards/8600-nvidia-rtx-4090-founders-edition?start=9