*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Etern4l]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I was extremely envious of the silicon quality of both CPUs but let's be honest. Unless you are getting paid for setting world records by a sponsor that covers the costs having a phenomenal chip is a stroke of luck that doesn't do a darned thing for you in the grand scheme of things. If someone was offering me 2 to 3 times what I paid for something that I was not directly and measurably benefitting from having I would sell it as well. At the end of the day, I (we) realize no tangible benefit from having an average sample versus a superior sample. Ranking on a leaderboard means contributes only to personal gratification and ego. There is some value in the personal satisfaction, but it's a hobby not an occupation.

Latest and older kernels were tested. That was also one of the reasons for trying different distros. The kernel that works correctly on my Z690 Dark and 13900K is older. 

 

I am not making any assumptions about Linux, only making comments in the context of consumer adoption. What happens in the business realm is relevant to Linux and the business that rely on it, but not to me and other consumers looking for a replacement for Windows. I was only speaking in terms of Linux being viewed as a viable replacement for Windows to consumers. As much as I loathe Windows 10 and 11, bugs aside, they generally work right and I have enough experience with Windows to fend for myself. I don't have to recompile OS code to fix issues and don't usually have to do strange things to make applications work correctly with Windows. When Linux works correctly for me it is mostly a better option than Windows and I really love Linux in general. When it doesn't work as intended, it really sucks. It's truly a love/hate relationship. I think it is better than Windows, except when it isn't, LOL.

 

There are pros and cons to both. Windows is the better option for most non-technical people, primarily because it's the officially supported option by most consumer HW vendors, and more foolproof (although far from ideal as we know). I would have probably stuck with Windows for convenience's sake without a clear incentive. 33% more CPU performance is freaking awesome - it's hard to overstate how great that is, however, most distros won't realise such gains, in fact I found Manjaro to be slower than Windows 11 lol, which was surprising given it's supposed to be the cutting edge Arch variant. It looked the coolest though l, perhaps that was a part of it. 

 

Now, of course, the way Windows has been going, incentives to abdandon Windows start going beyond performance, but I guess with all those 3rd party Windows privacy/anti-bloatware mods, people are still fine. Let's see what Satya&co. come up with next, driven by their clear vision of Windows' new role in the world :) 

[Mr. Fox]

4 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

There are pros and cons to both. Windows is the better option for most non-technical people, primarily because it's the officially supported option by most consumer HW vendors, and more foolproof (although far from ideal as we know). I would have probably stuck with Windows for convenience's sake without a clear incentive. 33% more CPU performance is freaking awesome - it's hard to overstate how great that is, however, most distros won't realise such gains, in fact I found Manjaro to be slower than Windows 11 lol, which was surprising given it's supposed to be the cutting edge Arch variant. 

I don't think it applies to only "non-technical" people. I consider myself highly technical, but your point is completely valid as it relates to those that are, in fact, non-technical. Windows could still be the better option for many highly technical people. In some cases it is, in fact, the only viable option. This is especially true as it relates to business. There are applications that are used in business that only function in a Windows environment. And, then there are highly technical consumers that are simply not interested in consuming a lot of time and energy on something just for shiggles. I lack the time for it, and finding the time is not on my list of priorities. Yes, I absolutely loathe Windows 10 and 11. But, I am still using both of them because it is necessary. Necessary in part for my job, and in equal part due to my lack of time and interest  necessary to become a leading expert on Linux.

 

I love using Linux most of the time, which is why I have it installed on all three of my systems. I am more advanced than most PC users. If I had encountered the same challenges I have tried to work through on the one system with the odd behavior with goofed up CPU clock speeds as an ordinary PC enthusiast, gamer or consumer, I would have immediately reclaimed the drive space for use by Windows. It irks the crap out of me when I can't figure out a Linux issue because I want to use it and it would replace Windows for me if it could.

[Clamibot]

55 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I was extremely envious of the silicon quality of both CPUs but let's be honest. Unless you are getting paid for setting world records by a sponsor that covers the costs having a phenomenal chip is a stroke of luck that doesn't do a darned thing for you in the grand scheme of things. If someone was offering me 2 to 3 times what I paid for something that I was not directly and measurably benefitting from having I would sell it as well. At the end of the day, I (we) realize no tangible benefit from having an average sample versus a superior sample. Ranking on a leaderboard means contributes only to personal gratification and ego. There is some value in the personal satisfaction, but it's a hobby not an occupation.

 

It could benefit us if we had liquid nitrogen AIOs. Gotta crank up that render distance in minecraft yo! Gotta get that awesome 240 fps in all games!

 

I've personally started getting very interested in peltier coolers, so I think all my desktops from now on are going to have some form of extreme cooling. As a result, CPU binning is going to start playing a bigger role for me. Man don't you just love when your hobbies become more expensive the more entrenched you get in them?

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I don't think it applies to only "non-technical" people. 

 

I don't think that either, nor was that implied in my statement. There are many technical people who specialise in the Microsoft ecosystem. A lot depends on the use cases, for some of them Linux is actually the preferred system to use, despite the option to use Windows, in some other scenarios using Linux would be impossible. As for Windows dependencies, these of course exist and can cause worry and hassle. Luckily I have found I don't need any of them after all because either native Linux or Web alternatives do the job. There is actually one hard dependency, but luckily I am fine running it on another Windows machine, and failing that I would just run it in a VM (if Wine failed). In my case, the relatively minor investment of time has been fully justified, don't see myself looking back anytime soon, and in fact I wish I had gone through with it years earlier.

 

BTW I have seen Linux workstations being in used in major corporations, so it's not like business necessarily has to be done on Windows.

 

Overall, the world would probably become a slightly better place if people stopped using Windows, but like all progressive change, it requires effort. Failing that, we will continue paying M$ for their bloated and spyware-laden OS and at the same time moaning about the ever increasing number of shortcomings of Windows 11, 12, 13 etc. - to no avail :)

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I was extremely envious of the silicon quality of both CPUs but let's be honest. Unless you are getting paid for setting world records by a sponsor that covers the costs having a phenomenal chip is a stroke of luck that doesn't do a darned thing for you in the grand scheme of things. If someone was offering me 2 to 3 times what I paid for something that I was not directly and measurably benefitting from having I would sell it as well. At the end of the day, I (we) realize no tangible benefit from having an average sample versus a superior sample. Ranking on a leaderboard means contributes only to personal gratification and ego. There is some value in the personal satisfaction, but it's a hobby not an occupation.

Latest and older kernels were tested. That was also one of the reasons for trying different distros. The kernel that works correctly on my Z690 Dark and 13900K is older. 

 

I am not making any assumptions about Linux, only making comments in the context of consumer adoption. What happens in the business realm is relevant to Linux and the business that rely on it, but not to me and other consumers looking for a replacement for Windows. I was only speaking in terms of Linux being viewed as a viable replacement for Windows to consumers. As much as I loathe Windows 10 and 11, bugs aside, they generally work right and I have enough experience with Windows to fend for myself. I don't have to compile source code to install software, or recompile OS code to fix issues, and I don't usually have to do strange things to make applications work correctly with Windows. I know that some people enjoy that. If I knew how, I might enjoy it. But, I don't and don't want to burn any calories on it. To the best of my knowledge, that is how most PC owners, including enthusiasts, feel about it. I don't see that as a bad thing, just a difference in personal priorities.

 

When Linux works correctly for me it is mostly a better option than Windows and I really love Linux in general. When it doesn't work as intended, it really sucks. It's truly a love/hate relationship. I think it is better than Windows, except when it isn't, LOL.

Yeah for now I’m just having fun testing CPU’s. It really is extremely fun though. I have discovered that the MSI Force2 rating is legit, and it doesn’t lie. It will save you a lot of time on testing. Even though I have tested each CPU independently. It’s crazy how some chips are really super good or super bad. 
 

I’ve tested:

 

13900KF(X238L435)Force134 Newegg Bios VID 0.959V

 

13900K X241M665 Force 124

Bestbuy Bios VID 0.927V

 

13900KF X238L101 Force 149

Newegg Bios VID 0.989V

 

13900K X241M888 Force 143

Bestbuy Bios VID 0.972V

 

The lower the better 100%. This motherboard doesn’t lie lol. I hope MSI Improves on this more. 

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I was extremely envious of the silicon quality of both CPUs but let's be honest. Unless you are getting paid for setting world records by a sponsor that covers the costs having a phenomenal chip is a stroke of luck that doesn't do a darned thing for you in the grand scheme of things. If someone was offering me 2 to 3 times what I paid for something that I was not directly and measurably benefitting from having I would sell it as well. At the end of the day, I (we) realize no tangible benefit from having an average sample versus a superior sample. Ranking on a leaderboard means contributes only to personal gratification and ego. There is some value in the personal satisfaction, but it's a hobby not an occupation.

Latest and older kernels were tested. That was also one of the reasons for trying different distros. The kernel that works correctly on my Z690 Dark and 13900K is older. 

 

I am not making any assumptions about Linux, only making comments in the context of consumer adoption. What happens in the business realm is relevant to Linux and the business that rely on it, but not to me and other consumers looking for a replacement for Windows. I was only speaking in terms of Linux being viewed as a viable replacement for Windows to consumers. As much as I loathe Windows 10 and 11, bugs aside, they generally work right and I have enough experience with Windows to fend for myself. I don't have to compile source code to install software, or recompile OS code to fix issues, and I don't usually have to do strange things to make applications work correctly with Windows. I know that some people enjoy that. If I knew how, I might enjoy it. But, I don't and don't want to burn any calories on it. To the best of my knowledge, that is how most PC owners, including enthusiasts, feel about it. I don't see that as a bad thing, just a difference in personal priorities.

 

When Linux works correctly for me it is mostly a better option than Windows and I really love Linux in general. When it doesn't work as intended, it really sucks. It's truly a love/hate relationship. I think it is better than Windows, except when it isn't, LOL.

Yeah for now I’m just having fun testing CPU’s. It really is extremely fun though. I have discovered that the MSI Force2 rating is legit, and it doesn’t lie. It will save you a lot of time on testing. Even though I have tested each CPU independently. 
 

I’ve tested:

 

13900KF(X238L435)Force134 Newegg Bios VID 0.959V

 

13900K X241M665 Force 124

Bestbuy Bios VID 0.927V

 

13900KF X238L101 Force 149

Newegg Bios VID 0.989V

 

13900K X241M888 Force 143

Bestbuy Bios VID 0.972V

 

The lower the better 100%. This motherboard doesn’t lie lol. I hope MSI Improves on this more. 

[Mr. Fox]

27 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Yeah for now I’m just having fun testing CPU’s. It really is extremely fun though. I have discovered that the MSI Force2 rating is legit, and it doesn’t lie. It will save you a lot of time on testing. Even though I have tested each CPU independently. It’s crazy how some chips are really super good or super bad. 
 

I’ve tested:

 

13900KF(X238L435)Force134 Newegg Bios VID 0.959V

 

13900K X241M665 Force 124

Bestbuy Bios VID 0.927V

 

13900KF X238L101 Force 149

Newegg Bios VID 0.989V

 

13900K X241M888 Force 143

Bestbuy Bios VID 0.972V

 

The lower the better 100%. This motherboard doesn’t lie lol. I hope MSI Improves on this more. 

It is really too bad this is not an standardized industry effort. ASUS has their SP rating, MSI their Force2 rating. They are totally different and not comparable, and you can't really cross-reference them accurately with limited data. And, then none of the other OEMs have something like those two different approaches. I would imagine that companies like Intel and AMD would be very set against that kind of a thing because it would impact their ability to sell crappy silicon samples to people that would be otherwise oblivious to the fact that they bought a junk CPU.

[Etern4l]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

It is really too bad this is not an standardized industry effort. ASUS has their SP rating, MSI their Force2 rating. They are totally different and not comparable, and you can't really cross-reference them accurately with limited data. And, then none of the other OEMs have something like those two different approaches. I would imagine that companies like Intel and AMD would be very set against that kind of a thing because it would impact their ability to sell crappy silicon samples to people that would be otherwise oblivious to the fact that they bought a junk CPU.

 

I wonder if both of those scores aren't just derived from some same common metric, like the default VID tps posted. All you really need to know is some ballpark. I doubt a 1 point difference in Force rating makes any material difference. With more data points we could likely figure that out, but then it would be CPU specific. What's really needed is an external board-agnostic rating tool. XTU would seem like a good place for this, but then it's not something Intel would want to provide, for the reason you mentioned. 

[Papusan]

9 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Yeah for now I’m just having fun testing CPU’s. It really is extremely fun though. I have discovered that the MSI Force2 rating is legit, and it doesn’t lie. It will save you a lot of time on testing. Even though I have tested each CPU independently. 

Asus have just started offer SP reading for MC for the Z790 boards. And we got same reading also MC predictions for Z690 with beta bios. Hope this also come to rest of the brands. 

 

I'm sure the elite benchers have know this a long time. Binned boards wasn't enough. They also got features others could only could dream about. And if you had this bios feature beforehand you could put a lot of the blame on the Cpu instead for on the boards for mem oc'ing. OH well. Fair competition in benching is reality? Nope.

 

Custom firmware from the MB manufacturer, binned Cpu (both for the clock ratio amd mem), binned boards and binned Memory without any costs,... Will push you far into the top of the leaderboards without even have to compete in real.. 

 

This is what showed up in latest test bios on my board. MC SP75.

 

Edit: How MC SP predictions is done on Asus boards. 
https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-asus-strix-maximus-z790-owners-thread.1800191/post-29075361

9 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

It is really too bad this is not an standardized industry effort. ASUS has their SP rating, MSI their Force2 rating. They are totally different and not comparable, and you can't really cross-reference them accurately with limited data. And, then none of the other OEMs have something like those two different approaches. I would imagine that companies like Intel and AMD would be very set against that kind of a thing because it would impact their ability to sell crappy silicon samples to people that would be otherwise oblivious to the fact that they bought a junk CPU.

Would like see SP rating back for graphics cards. We had Asic score in the older days. But of course this was something they wanted go away. Keywords = Greed. I'm sure all AIC partners have proper tools to measure asic. Not only Nvidia have it. 

[Mr. Fox]

34 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Asus have just started offer SP reading for MC for the Z790 boards. And we got same reading also MC predictions for Z690 with beta bios. Hope this also come to rest of the brands. 

 

I'm sure the elite benchers have know this a long time. Binned boards wasn't enough. They also got features others could only could dream about. And if you had this bios feature beforehand you could put a lot of the blame on the Cpu instead for on the board for mem oc'ing. OH'well. Fair competition in benching is reality? Nope. 

 

Custom firmware from the MB manufacturer, binned Cpu (both for the clock ratio amd mem), binned boards and binned Memory without any costs,... Will push you far into the top of the leaderboards without even have to compete in real.. 

 

This is what showed up in latest test bios on my board. MC SP75.

 

Thanks. I will look for that on my Strix BIOS.

34 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Would like see SP rating back for graphics cards. We had Asic score in the older days. But of course this was something they wanted go away. Keywords = Greed. I'm sure all AIC partners have proper tools to measure asic. Not only Nvidia have it. 

I am sure Intel, AMD and NVIDIA do not support the idea of purchasers of their products having the ability to identify when they have been sold an inferior product. I suspect ASUS and MSI did not gain any favor for their firmware showing this. The nice thing about it is they probably don't have any say-so in the matter.

[Papusan]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thanks. I will look for that on my Strix BIOS.

I am sure Intel, AMD and NVIDIA do not support the idea of purchasers of their products having the ability to identify when they have been sold an inferior product. I suspect ASUS and MSI did not gain any favor for their firmware showing this. The nice thing about it is they probably don't have any say-so in the matter.

Bios v2203 (test bioses) RaptorLake Resources

 

For correct MC SP reading I think you need to put default settings (No tweaks and no custom settings). And it works for both 12th and 13th gen chips.

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Bios v2203 (test bioses) RaptorLake Resources

 

For correct MC SP reading I think you need to put default settings (No tweaks and no custom settings). And it works for both 12th and 13th gen chips.

Thank you. I flashed the BIOS and it does not have MC SP rating. Not sure if it is because it is 12900KS or they did not include this on the Strix mobo. But, the nice thing is that MemTweakIt now work on my Z690 Dark. The last version did not.

I will test if TurboV Core works on the Strix now. The most recent prior version did not.

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

Bios v2203 (test bioses) RaptorLake Resources

 

For correct MC SP reading I think you need to put default settings (No tweaks and no custom settings). And it works for both 12th and 13th gen chips.

 

33 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thank you. I flashed the BIOS and it does not have MC SP rating. Not sure if it is because it is 12900KS or they did not include this on the Strix mobo. But, the nice thing is that MemTweakIt now work on my Z690 Dark. The last version did not.

I will test if TurboV Core works on the Strix now. The most recent prior version did not.

I am unable to boot (keep getting the F1 error at POST) with my previous OC settings with the beta BIOS. Will test a little more, but I may have to go back to the previous v2103 BIOS if that issue persists. I am booting now with BIOS default. I think the new firmware does not like my memory modules for some reason.

This version of TurboV Core works though, so that is nice. Hopefully, it will work the same even if I have to flash back to v2103.

[jaybee83]

22 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news here, but Jensen will manage to laugh this gamer rage off. The crypto boom got replaced by AI. Nvidia Q3 Revenue was $5.9B, of which $3.8B was Data Center, up 31% YoY. Gaming is still significant at $1.5B, but down 51% vs previous year, and -25% vs previous quarter.

 

This year Nvidia are no longer primarily a gaming hardware company.

 

He can charge this much for whatever chips he can spare for the gamers - and he can clearly spare very little indeed. The workstation cards are a niche for them too BTW: $200M, and this is also down a whopping 65% YoY.

 

All aboard the AI train, except Conductor Jensen will check the tickets momentarily and get those gamers and other enthusiast and creator plebs off those premium Nvidia carriages.

 

22 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Every segment counts. Even if Data Center revenue goes nuclear it doesn't mean he wants to suffer gamer market contraction or more important lose market share to AMD or Intel.

 

One thing Apple taught us is that every market segment counts whether it is a 200mil/yr segment or 20bil/yr segment.

 

 

 

#AllProfitsMatter

 

 

 

ive followed this trend of Nvidia investing and profiting more and more from non-gaming related business sectors. naturally, for them as a company this is good since it diversifies their product stack and thus their risk. however, im a bit worried about what that might mean for us gamers / tech nerds in the long run if the gaming sector becomes too "small" to care about for them...

 

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

Here's a graph on how many people who fits into your chart..............  Round it up and I think the number are closer to 10% of the population. 

 

5% is happy to spend $1,100. 2% or less feel that the current $1,200 MSRP is justified or are willing to spend more than MSRP.

 

 

$700-800 Ideal Price for GeForce RTX 4080: TechPowerUp Poll Surveying 11,000 Respondents

EXCLUSIVE by techpowerup.com

 

 Today, 12:22 Discuss 

The ideal price for the NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 "Ada" graphics card is around USD $700 to $800, according to results from a recent TechPowerUp Front-page poll surveying our readers. Our poll "How much would you pay for RTX 4080 at most?" received over 11,000 responses. At the number 1 spot with 22% of the vote is $800, closely followed by $700. Together, this range represents 44% of the voters. 14% of our readers think $600 is an ideal price, followed by "less than $400" at 13%. 9% think $500 seems fair, followed by 7% willing to spend as much as $900. 5% is happy to spend $1,100. 2% or less feel that the current $1,200 MSRP is justified or are willing to spend more than MSRP. There's more to a majority finding sanity with the $700 to $800 price-range.

 

7 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

What they are not capturing is what th 5% and 2% represents. They would need to exclude people like me that are not going to purchase a new GPU at any price and only take the percentage from the people actually planning to purchase a new GPU. Maybe they are calculating it that way, but it's not clear. If you include people like me in the calculation the numbers will be misleading. What they are also not capturing is how many will still pay that much to have a new GPU even though they do not feel the price is justified. I did that with the 3090 KPE. Was the price idiotic? Yes, it was ludicrous. Did I spend the money anyway? Yes, I did. NVIDIA knows this. They don't care whether people think the price represents value. They only care if people will spend the money anyway, in spite of their opinion that the price is unreasonable.

 

yeah such polls are always a bit tricky. the data represents the "comfort zone" of the respondents, but not their limits. Nvidia's pricing politics follows the latter, they try to squeeze out as much as humanly possible, offering prices the majority is just barely accepting to pay with grinding teeth before getting out the pitch forks. comfort zone vs. limit, now thats a pretty big Delta, for sure...

 

6 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I’m sorry, I’ve been extreme busy with work stresses and testing CPU’s in general. I’ve sold the processor X241M860 and it’s going out today. It was an incredible sample, and it has really set the bar for trying to find one even better. I don’t even have those benchmarks you mentioned, but I was planning on downloading them when I had time. 
 

I was planning on keeping Batch X241M860 I had found my chip lol. But people message me with stuff like “Name your price/Not kidding” etc. And I end up falling right in hook line and sinker 
 

Anyways, my newest sample isn’t as good. But it’s still an okay performer at just slightly above average.
 

 

 

lol u might wanna switch careers and do a small-scale silicon lottery kinda thingy hahaha

[Mr. Fox]

57 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

yeah such polls are always a bit tricky. the data represents the "comfort zone" of the respondents, but not their limits. Nvidia's pricing politics follows the latter, they try to squeeze out as much as humanly possible, offering prices the majority is just barely accepting to pay with grinding teeth before getting out the pitch forks. comfort zone vs. limit, now thats a pretty big Delta, for sure...

More often than not, I think polls relating to business or politics reflect the outcome the people conducting the poll want the poll to show as a means of furthering whatever agenda they are pushing. I think they should be taken with a grain of salt most of the time.

  

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am unable to boot (keep getting the F1 error at POST) with my previous OC settings with the beta BIOS. Will test a little more, but I may have to go back to the previous v2103 BIOS if that issue persists. I am booting now with BIOS default. I think the new firmware does not like my memory modules for some reason.

This version of TurboV Core works though, so that is nice. Hopefully, it will work the same even if I have to flash back to v2103.

 

Yep, bigger than heck, Brother @Papusan... I flashed back to v2103 and everything works right. Not sure what changed on the memory part of v2203, but it was not very good for me. I could not boot even at 6000 for some strange reason. Memory would not train. But, newer is always better. Except for when it ain't, LOL.

[Papusan]

6 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thank you. I flashed the BIOS and it does not have MC SP rating. Not sure if it is because it is 12900KS or they did not include this on the Strix mobo. But, the nice thing is that MemTweakIt now work on my Z690 Dark. The last version did not.

I will test if TurboV Core works on the Strix now. The most recent prior version did not.

I mean KS is supported. The test bios for Z690 is built around Z790 firmware. There should also be an BIOS Ver. 000 floating as well with MC SP reading.

 

I digged a bit and found what you need... Shamino posted about this... It seems Asus use different standards on their boards. Hence Strix boards is out. At least for the Z790 boards. Maybe ask him about your Z690 Strix board. Ask him if they will add it into a "working" test bios. 

 

Post #658 https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-asus-strix-maximus-z790-owners-thread.1800191/page-33#post-29075404

 

But if people are able to run +6800 with sticks with M-Die stable and 12th gen chips then I think the MC is quite ok. MC on all 13th gen is a lot better than on 12th gen.

 

Edit. Some have got the bottom barrel. These chips should have never ever come out from Intels factory. 

 

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yep, bigger than heck, Brother @Papusan... I flashed back to v2103 and everything works right. Not sure what changed on the memory part of v2203, but it was not very good for me. I could not boot even at 6000 for some strange reason. Memory would not train. But, newer is always better. Except for when it ain't, LOL.

See above. But weird the bios made such horrible changes. Yep, firmware upgrades just follow same paths as what Microsoft offer with Windows CU patches.  Either a Hit or a huge miss. But mostly the latter. Could be newer test bios is more optimized for RPL and A-die and the firmware developers forgot that the boards is also meant for 12th gen. 

 

See also...

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

Could be newer test bios is more optimized for RPL and A-die and the firmware developers forgot that the boards is also meant for 12th gen. 

My Corsair 7200 A-die should be here tomorrow, but it is not for this system. 

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

This version of TurboV Core works though, so that is nice. Hopefully, it will work the same even if I have to flash back to v2103.

Yes, it does still work so that's very handy. The modern versions of XTU suck real bad and TurboV Core, EVGA ELEET and MSI Dragon Power are what XTU should be... lightweight, without a lot of garbage services slowing things down and stealing CPU clock cycles.

[Etern4l]

Could an old PSU be a source of instability, under fairly constant load, running at about 60-70% capacity? I'm taking about once in 2 days crash events. Put another way, have people experienced improvement of stability after upgrading their PSUs? 

 

Seems like it:

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/power-supply-causing-system-instability-what-are-the-cause-of-system-instability-aside-from-software-issue.250684/

 

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/system-instability-psu.1270077/

 

Well, I guess it's time to upgrade, even though the particular timing is not ideal (the 12VHPWR mess, ATX 3.0 around the corner). 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

Could an old PSU be a source of instability, under fairly constant load, running at about 60-70% capacity? I'm taking about once in 2 days crash events. Put another way, have people experienced improvement of stability after upgrading their PSUs? 

 

Seems like it:

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/power-supply-causing-system-instability-what-are-the-cause-of-system-instability-aside-from-software-issue.250684/

 

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/system-instability-psu.1270077/

 

Well, I guess it's time to upgrade, even though the particular timing is not ideal (the 12VHPWR mess, ATX 3.0 around the corner). 

Yes. In fact, I had EVGA replace my 850G2 under warranty recently due to some instability that accompanied random reboots with the GPU under load (like a demanding game or benchmark). Replacing it fixed the problem. The fan had also stopped working, but that was a secondary issue. The load instability/reboot happened even when the PSU was cold.

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Could an old PSU be a source of instability, under fairly constant load, running at about 60-70% capacity? I'm taking about once in 2 days crash events. Put another way, have people experienced improvement of stability after upgrading their PSUs? 

 

Seems like it:

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/power-supply-causing-system-instability-what-are-the-cause-of-system-instability-aside-from-software-issue.250684/

 

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/system-instability-psu.1270077/

 

Well, I guess it's time to upgrade, even though the particular timing is not ideal (the 12VHPWR mess, ATX 3.0 around the corner). 

 

Absolutely.

 

Had bad startups and crashes until I replaced my recalled Corsair 1200w.

Just posted in this thread a bit ago about a failing 700w PSU with the wife's 3080.

 

I would have recommended getting an EVGA PSU when their prices were crazy good but recently their prices have pushed upward and the sales aren't great on anything.

 

 

[electrosoft]

@Papusan finally found your dream upgrade! 😁

 

[Papusan]

On 11/26/2022 at 2:28 AM, Papusan said:

Me and middle my son have started buy parts for his new gaming machine. Mind you, this is included the nice Norwegian taxes/currency exchange tarifs on top.

 

What we have ordered for now:

1. NZXT H7 Flow Midi Tower (White) - ($131.47) Quite good Reviews for a mid tower (the cooling)
2. Gigabyte Z690 AORUS PRO - ($371.00) Review
3. Corsair HX1500i (2022) - ($232.72). In fact, quite cheap in Norway Review
4. ASUS Dual GeForce RTX™ 3070 V2 OC Edition - ($656.96) Review
5. ASUS ROG Strix XG27AQ 27" Monitor - ($449.85) Review
6. WD Black SN850X PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 - 2TB - ($232.72) Review
7. G.skill 6400 ram from me. Already tested by me😀
8. He also got my golden 12900K and custom cooling for an ok price. Already tested by me😀

 

The good part... He is smart young man and didn't pay the extra for the RGB version (BLING BLING) of the chassis. And black was 50% more expensive so... White it will be. I hope the white color ain't equal awful as Dell's Lunar White color who turned into Yellowish disaster after 3 months(Yep, their +5000$ gaming Joke flagship's chassis, lid, bottom and palmrest couldn't be touched without gloves). Aka a 5 grand failure.

 

Then he will need some more cooling parts etc. Expected to be around $175 + $600 he owes me.

 

So the gaming machine will cost him around $2850. Yep, not cheap if you want something new in this part of the world. Neither is it easy to find what you want to buy. As you can se, not high end system with all the bells and whistles even it looks like this on the price tag, but good enough for his needs. So a tax hell isn't the best place live in.

 

I myself got the G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB DDR5-7200 BK C34 DC  while he took over my G.Skill 6400 sticks. I also bought the same monitor as my son (ASUS ROG Strix XG27AQ 27" Monitor). 

 

Now I'll have to find out what radiator that will fits in the chassis above. Me think, 45mm thick 360mm with high fin density and strong fans. Fans can be tuned for performance and or silence. Weak fans have already reached their limits. 

 

So rate the build as the reddit boys/girls always say(me, 5 of 6 stars), LOOL

 

7 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Well, I guess it's time to upgrade, even though the particular timing is not ideal (the 12VHPWR mess, ATX 3.0 around the corner). 

See above. I bought a Corsair HX1500i for my son. A very nice deal. The price I paid was even cheaper than from many U.S stores. This with the added +30% premium (Norweagian taxes/currency exchange tarifs included.

 

And Igorslab have reviewed it last week... Corsair HX1500i PSU Review – Even without ATX 3.0 a real beast for enthusiasts

 

In short... Look after a good deal. Not the new ATX 3.0 specs. I myself have the be quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 1500W Power Supply. A fantastic PSU and if you find it at a good price... Run and buy. Same for the Corsair HX1500i. 

 

And Igorslab have had ATX 3.0 as topic today/yesterday. Se conclution.

 

Completely superfluous: Who (currently) needs expensive power supplies with ATX 3.0 and PCIe 5.0? igorslab.com

 

Summary and conclusion
Do we even need such an extremely oversized ATX 3.0 power supply at this point? For the moment, I would really answer this question with a clear no, if you follow certain basic rules when sizing the power supply when buying a new one. On the one hand, such power supplies can cause problems with older systems (voltage) and on the other hand it complicates the production (and costs) of really efficient power supplies and complete systems unnecessarily. Expensive instead of sensible, what a farce for the customer…

 

If you are planning a NEW system with a high-end graphics card, you can of course rely on a new ATX 3.0 power supply, especially since you won’t have to search for the 12VHPWR cable. But buying such a usually more expensive power adapter just because you only want to replace the included 12VHPWR adapter is complete nonsense. As long as the current power supply is still good and not too old you are good to go. 

 

The good power supplies come with at least 5 years warranty to the customer, some even up to 10 years. If you now think you can’t go wrong with a new, expensive ATX 3.0 power supply and are making a sensible investment in the more distant future, you are unknowingly making a fundamental mistake! Because what has currently been announced as ATX 3.0 or has just come onto the market does not yet offer anything that older power supplies can’t, at least in terms of the graphics card connection and the smart power management. With a bit of bad luck, the great 400-euro PSU will be back to the technical stone age in two years when all four sense pins are finally used.

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

@Papusan finally found your dream upgrade! 😁

 

LOOL. Thanks 🙂 But you know I hate "bling bling" HaHa

[cylix]

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Revised-Navi-31-based-RX-7990-XTX-RX-7950-XTX-and-RX-7950-XT-with-up-to-3-6-GHz-clock-speeds-and-3D-V-Cache-could-be-in-the-works.671239.0.html

 

Answer to 4090 and 4090ti? Interesting about that 3d V cache on a gpu🤔

[jaybee83]

11 minutes ago, cylix said:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Revised-Navi-31-based-RX-7990-XTX-RX-7950-XTX-and-RX-7950-XT-with-up-to-3-6-GHz-clock-speeds-and-3D-V-Cache-could-be-in-the-works.671239.0.html

 

Answer to 4090 and 4090ti? Interesting about that 3d V cache on a gpu🤔

 

those specs sound quite insane. id love for the green team to get a big ol' can of whoop-ass to get back to their senses!

[Etern4l]

For those who don't mind watching a good anti-ngreedia rant, it doesn't get much better on YT than this lol