*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

14 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

The sheer amount of headroom does really seem to indicate a lot of performance was left on the table and AIBs are going to have a field day along with blocks.

Historically, AMD has been anti-overclocking and has had a very anti-overclocker policy. By leaving a lot of headroom on the table it makes it easier to deny warranty if they can find any evidence of overclocking or performance modification, and they even go as far as mentioning that using the overclocking software they provide is a basis for warranty denial. If they push things to the edge (like NVIDIA) and the GPU fails, they're automatically on the hook for the warranty. So, they are being rather sly with self-insulation by selling an under-performer with lots of headroom that they know full well some customers are going to tap into. 

  

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

The fun part... The thread starter (nr1 bencher) for the "cheat graphics problems thread" posted benchmarks with ECC disabled. This days after he+ the mod team by own hands pushed out the new rules and said you risk be banned if you don't remove your old scores within one week yourself. 

It seems that rules seldom apply to the people making them up. The rules only have to be followed by the people that the rules are designed to victimize.

[Papusan]

51 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Historically, AMD has been anti-overclocking and has had a very anti-overclocker policy. By leaving a lot of headroom on the table it makes it easier to deny warranty if they can find any evidence of overclocking or performance modification, and they even go as far as mentioning that using the overclocking software they provide is a basis for warranty denial. If they push things to the edge (like NVIDIA) and the GPU fails, they're automatically on the hook for the warranty. So, they are being rather sly with self-insulation by selling an under-performer with lots of headroom that they know full well some customers are going to tap into. 

Yep, their policy is in small fat black print in the bootom of the KB article. Not sure I have seen nvidia offer the same. But nvidia don't have or offer own OC software. And then we have the AIC partners who make own rules/own OC software. A huge mess. 

 

Customize GPU Performance Tuning with AMD Software: Adrenalin Edition AMD.com

51 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

It seems that rules seldom apply to the people making them up. The rules only have to be followed by the people that the rules are designed to victimize.

They can and will moderate any scores if they see they are too good. Maybe they think newbies or the normy benchers can't have the best binned HW (only elite and top benchers can have that).

[Mr. Fox]

7 minutes ago, Papusan said:

They can and will moderate any scores if they see they are too good. Maybe they think newbies or the normy benchers can't have the best binned HW (only elite and top benchers can have that).

🤣😠👍👎

[jaybee83]

On 12/13/2022 at 1:24 AM, Talon said:

It's the second Zotac MSRP 4090 I've seen that easily hits 2000+ VRAM. Another guy I know can do +2200 on his Zotac. 

 

On 12/13/2022 at 1:25 AM, johnksss said:

Mine was a 1700+ So I felt pretty damn lucky after getting a 1200+ card.

 

may i ask, what value is this silly test cranking up the vRAM on desktop without any kind of load put onto it? if u click fast enough u might be lucky to skip the stability limit and up the clocks extra before hitting pay dirt i.e. when the system freezes 😄 gimme proper stability!

 

On 12/13/2022 at 9:01 AM, johnksss said:

Edit:

And so it begins.... They just blocked a bunch of my scores. I think I'm bout done with benching...

 

that sux man, sorry to hear that. specific benchmark or across the board?

 

On 12/13/2022 at 10:35 AM, Papusan said:

Thanks bro John. Galax is excluded. We have never seen this brand here home. Even a big store as Caseking in Germany (de8auers shop) don't offer this card. The same can I say for the FE here home. Nothing there either. But lot Zotac (the boat) and gainward. As well Palit and Suprim X Liquid. The store I bought my MSI card had 60 of the X Liquid on Friday. + a few other models. All is sold out now. But you can stil grab loads of 4080, LOOL

 

Yep, when I finally get a new card (mamy years since I bought brand new)... And of course it had to be a mess with new tech as ECC and hwbot. Isn't it typical? I have a lot more fun benching the old. No fuss. And the mods can't remove legit scores.

 

 

Some of topic. England enjoy the small TROLL. Not the big one as here home. Yep, my place is right outside Trondheim city.

 

British extreme weather has been named the "Troll of Trondheim"

A troll from Trondheim makes the British grind their teeth. The snowy weather also creates challenges at the airport near London
https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/troll-of-trondheim_-ekstremvaer-i-storbritannia-kalles-troll-from-trondheim-eller-troll-of-trondheim-1.16215866

 

This is the real Troll. I was just out with the car. Minus 25C today. And this weather will be here at least one week more. I hate it. Not good for my broken lungs.  And no sun on the days neither will help on the mood/health. The days forwards to Christmas holidays consist mostly of the dreaded northern darkness and cold. Not a nice place to be here right now. 

 

The latest weather forecast says it will be freezing cold on Christmas Eve/Christmas holidays here home around Trondheim. Yep, I can't see much of the climate change people talk a lot about. At least not here home. So, please send me some warning sun from the other side of the big Atlantic ocean.

 

 

 

dude, dont phone n drive! 😛 

 

On 12/13/2022 at 12:37 PM, cylix said:

Galax is sold as KFA2 in Europe, think they are the same boards.  KFA2 4090 starts at around 2099 euro in Germany, supply is there. Both mediamarkt and Saturn arw selling them.

 

correct. same cards, just different brand name. used to be Galaxy but they had some kinda IP issue so they rebadged to KFA2. gotta check though which submodels theyre offering. same as Asus or others, they have "el cheapo" models like the SG (equivalent to the base models) and higher tier cards within the same gpu class.

 

On 12/13/2022 at 2:06 PM, Etern4l said:

Yes, the British media has a penchant for coming up with colourful names for weather conditions that slightly deviate from the expected mild state. Last winter (or two ago) it was "The Beast From The East"! -5C and a couple of inches of snow lol

 

As I recall, it's even funnier in Texas. - 1C and a bit of ice on the roads and everything grinds to a halt. I literally saw cars spinning around on crossroads - nobody uses winter tyres. 

 

well duh... texas is already subtropics, so yeah, ppl just aint ready for such temps 😄 although i myself have experienced insane hail storm with friggin ICE FLOATS on rivers that used to be streets n highways in Houston....

 

On 12/13/2022 at 3:16 PM, cylix said:

Shit reference cards in europe at around 1250 euros..sso the custom will be at 4080 price, this is bad for AMD, i think they will not sell and after Christmas i forsee reductions

 

LE: XFX Merc custom 1329 EURO - thats Palit gamerock 4080 price, fail AMD.

 

No trace of Sapphire Nitro or Red devil customs.. what a paper launch..joke

 

https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/xfx+rx+7900xtx+merc310+black+edition+grafikkarte+789025

 

LEE: thats a massive OC and on Air, theres a big untapped potential - https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-7900-xt-navi-31-gpu-overclocked-3-7-ghz-front-end-clock-3-5-ghz-shader-clock/

 

 

"Most reviewers also had their AMD Radeon RX 7900 graphics cards peak out at around 3 GHz, the same as the NVIDIA GeForce RTX 40 series but the performance benefit was far less. AMD will be launching their first RDNA 3 flagships tomorrow so let us know if you have made up your mind about what graphics card you'll be getting tomorrow."

 

On 12/13/2022 at 6:00 PM, cylix said:

So overclocking potential is big on the 7900xtx, crazy how much with air but on the customs with 3x8pins. Nobody should buy the reference

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-radeon-rx-7900-xtx-tuf-oc/39.html

 

 

 

solid 14-15% gain from OC, double that of the 4090 on air at 7-8%.

 

still, something fishy going on... need more data! those clocks vs the perf gain dont make sense.

 

4 hours ago, Rage Set said:

The 7900 XTX AIB cards are hitting 3.2Ghz (and these aren't even the best AIB cards). Apparently, AMD left A LOT of performance on the table, in the name of being "energy efficient". These cards with waterblocks are going to shine....crossing my fingers if we can use the MorePowerTool

 

I am almost sold on the 7900 XTX once I see some waterblocks for AIB cards.  

 

a lot of clocks, but not THAT much performance on the table. hoping this gets sorted with some optimizations down the line. as mentioned before, AMD wouldve likely only gone overboard with clocks n power if they had a shot at beating the 4090. like this, they chose the "efficient" route and poke fun at the monster 40 series cards 😄 

 

1 hour ago, cylix said:

Yes these 7900xtx cards are overclocking like crazy but there is a strange behavior where if you go past a point you get less performance. AMD needs to get the drivers in shape. Think after some maturity of drivers these cards will unleash almost 4090 performance across the board.

 

Yes, as I expected, our performance was again limited by the power limit of the card. To make it simple, from a certain frequency, and even if it is stable, the performances are less good. Look on this picture, the Boost frequency reaches 2859 MHz and yet my graphic score is only 27661 points while at the origin, without overclocking, it is 29864 points!

 

https://en.overclocking.com/review-powercolor-rx-7900-xtx-red-devil-limited-edition/9/?amp=1

 

LE: What a shitty 7900xtx launch we had, i cannot find any Sapphire 7900xtx Nitro in whole Europe, or any good AIB  cards..

 

be patient brother, give it a few days or a week. and most importantly: check in regularly, cards will come back in stock here and there! 🙂 hand in there bud!

[johnksss]

2 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

 

may i ask, what value is this silly test cranking up the vRAM on desktop without any kind of load put onto it? if u click fast enough u might be lucky to skip the stability limit and up the clocks extra before hitting pay dirt i.e. when the system freezes 😄 gimme proper stability!

 

 

that sux man, sorry to hear that. specific benchmark or across the board?

 

 

 

Silly? I think you miss understand my friend.🙂 Although I didn't think this was new to an old head like your self though....

Also why I called it the "Jufres" test, but no.

1: You are testing if you have good or bad memory and this is the fastest way to find out. Nothing about stability being tested in this part of testing.

2: Testing for max clocks. Core and memory. This is like you having an Asus board that can read the SP and MC SP rating.

3: Once that is established. Then you work your way up or back from the max or stock clocks with benching and gaming. Once found, then you can go back to doing things normal or at your best stable clocks knowing that you have a good product.

 

 

The reason for this as we have seen time and time again are early adopters get to super bragging about how great their part is only to find out that it was crap. And now they are mad because they did not know the true scale in which to work with. So you get said card and say it does what I need it to do and it's great with 1000+ vram over clock. Only to find out that it was not great and your card is actually a dud. How? because you try to do 1050 and your pc crashes, while others are doing 1500 to 2200+ with ease.

 

Now in the grand scheme of things if you are a gamer then this really doesn't amount to anything as all the cards will game on stock clocks, but for people wanting to get what they paid for. it's a big deal.

 

[Rage Set]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

 

I keep going back and forth on the 7900xtx but more forward than backwards. I really like the Nitro+ model for air cooled along with the TUF for some reason (go figure) but any 2x PCIe models are automatically sent to /dev/null all 3x models are on the consideration chart. 7900xt is a non-starter in any configuration even with a price drop.

 

As for reduced performance, just like CPUs at a certain point all types of variables start to come into play when you're pushing it to its edge from memory errors to CPU oddly throttling due to need of better cooling. Put it on water or LN2 and many of those problems would resolve themselves.

 

The sheer amount of headroom does really seem to indicate a lot of performance was left on the table and AIBs are going to have a field day along with blocks.

 

 

 

I am looking at any AIB XTX that will have a decent waterblock available. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Historically, AMD has been anti-overclocking and has had a very anti-overclocker policy. By leaving a lot of headroom on the table it makes it easier to deny warranty if they can find any evidence of overclocking or performance modification, and they even go as far as mentioning that using the overclocking software they provide is a basis for warranty denial. If they push things to the edge (like NVIDIA) and the GPU fails, they're automatically on the hook for the warranty. So, they are being rather sly with self-insulation by selling an under-performer with lots of headroom that they know full well some customers are going to tap into. 

 

While AMD may try to deny a warranty if you overclock an AMD Reference card purchased from them, they can't be said about AIB's. Plus, the burden will always be on the manufacturer to prove that an end user damaged the card from overclocking. 

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

a lot of clocks, but not THAT much performance on the table. hoping this gets sorted with some optimizations down the line. as mentioned before, AMD wouldve likely only gone overboard with clocks n power if they had a shot at beating the 4090. like this, they chose the "efficient" route and poke fun at the monster 40 series cards 😄 

 

A lot of clocks that are being power limited. Unlike Nvidia (and unless it has changed this generation), AMD GPU overclockers have apps that allow us to go beyond the defined power limits. MorePowerTools and Red BIOS Editor. My 6900 XT performs better than a 6950 XT (they have the same upgraded XTXH chip) due to these tools. 

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, jaybee83 said:

 

well duh... texas is already subtropics, so yeah, ppl just aint ready for such temps 😄 although i myself have experienced insane hail storm with friggin ICE FLOATS on rivers that used to be streets n highways in Houston....

 

Interestingly, Texas is large enough to have subclimates. I was in the DFW area, and generally cold winter spells (and hail) are more common in the northern part of the state. But, yeah, with hail in Houston we would definitely have a problem :)

[electrosoft]

Sapphire Nitro+ 7900xtx unboxing...this is my current pick of the AIBs so far:

 

 

[Talon]

2 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

may i ask, what value is this silly test cranking up the vRAM on desktop without any kind of load put onto it? if u click fast enough u might be lucky to skip the stability limit and up the clocks extra before hitting pay dirt i.e. when the system freezes 😄 gimme proper stability!

 

Its just a quick test, definitely not a stability test at all lol. But if it can't even handle the clocks being set at the desktop, it ain't gonna handle them under any load. Then of course you have to check for error correcting kicking in and scores regressing even with high clocks. 

[johnksss]

@Mr. Fox Watching the Kingpin video at 20:50 oh man! That is exactly what Dell/Alienware did to us!

 

@24:06 Vince let me get the 2 way version of that board.

[tps3443]

Check out this 13900K. This chip is funny that's for sure! Okay so it runs abnormally hot. 10C hotter than my last 13900K at the same power levels. So, I am thinking bad TIM, or bad IHS flatness for sure. However, even with how warm it is running it's still a BOSS! It is really a flipping crazy good chip. 

5.9Ghz P-Cores, 4.7Ghz E-Cores, and 5.1Ghz Ring. 1.315V set in bios. 
 

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, johnksss said:

@Mr. Fox Watching the Kingpin video at 20:50 oh man! That is exactly what Dell/Alienware did to us!

 

@24:06 Vince let me get the 2 way version of that board.

Yeah, 100%... "they'll come behind you guys and lock it down" 😞 Totally butt-headed Gestapo crap.

A lot, maybe most, of everything that is good and awesome about overclocking is attributable to EVGA. NVIDIA is probably relieved they are no longer an AIB partner, and their competitors are probably glad they do not have to be held to standards as high as where EVGA set the bar for GPUs. Heaven help us if they stop making motherboards.

 

Do you still have that 2-slot spacer daughterboard? Truly a collector's item and a piece of history if it came from Vince and Tin.

 

[johnksss]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yeah, 100%... "they'll come behind you guys and lock it down" 😞 Totally butt-headed Gestapo crap.

A lot, maybe most, of everything that is good and awesome about overclocking is attributable to EVGA. NVIDIA is probably relieved they are no longer an AIB partner, and their competitors are probably glad they do not have to be held to standards as high as where EVGA set the bar for GPUs. Heaven help us if they stop making motherboards.

 

Do you still have that 2-slot spacer daughterboard? Truly a collector's item and a piece of history if it came from Vince and Tin.

 

Yep, I still have it. I did use it a few times when I had 3090 NVLink going.

[Etern4l]

16 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Historically, AMD has been anti-overclocking and has had a very anti-overclocker policy. By leaving a lot of headroom on the table it makes it easier to deny warranty if they can find any evidence of overclocking or performance modification, and they even go as far as mentioning that using the overclocking software they provide is a basis for warranty denial. If they push things to the edge (like NVIDIA) and the GPU fails, they're automatically on the hook for the warranty. So, they are being rather sly with self-insulation by selling an under-performer with lots of headroom that they know full well some customers are going to tap into. 

  

It seems that rules seldom apply to the people making them up. The rules only have to be followed by the people that the rules are designed to victimize.

 

The HWBOT drama aside, a nice feature of the Nvidia ECC implementation is that it shows if any errors were detected and corrected. Surely useful for the purpose of super-stable RAM OC, where errors are not always straightforward to directly observe, and thus their occurrence might not be immediately obvious. Very nice of Nvidia to include this option in their high-end consumer offerings, but on the general pricing/availability front the Linus Principle is alive and well:

 

 

(Sorry I thought the slo-mo variant is kind of cool lol)

[Mr. Fox]

5 hours ago, johnksss said:

Yep, I still have it. I did use it a few times when I had 3090 NVLink going.

Let's see what kind of response this gets... I'm suspect someone(s) with a famous user name(s) might get butt hurt about having to play by the same rules as us pions.

 

https://community.hwbot.org/topic/221655-mandatory-systeminfo-555-update-and-new-benchmark-rules-for-rtx40-series/#comment-632711

 

---

Now this is interesting...

 

https://forums.evga.com/My-Arduinobased-RAM-SPD-readerwriter-free-and-open-source-m3053544-p6.aspx

[cylix]

Well if this is true then this is why performance is so low and a scummy move from AMD to their customers!

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, cylix said:

Well if this is true then this is why performance is so low and a scummy move from AMD to their customers!

 

 

Wow, that is a really nasty can of worms. Would have been much better for them to delay launch rather than releasing a defective product deliberately. Smells like an Azor move. Skunks don't change their stripes.

[cylix]

Yes this is the norm nowdays, fu..the customers, profit above all. They needed something for the Christmas sales.😑

[Mr. Fox]

6 minutes ago, cylix said:

Yes this is the norm nowdays, fu..the customers, profit above all. They needed something for the Christmas sales.😑

[electrosoft]

6 hours ago, cylix said:

Well if this is true then this is why performance is so low and a scummy move from AMD to their customers!

 

 

 

6000 series uplift was about what? 0-10%? Along with most importantly if your particular program can take advantage of software specific prefetching versus the automated hardware level prefetching so it will vary program to program. These are AMD Mesa3D drivers being used to show the inability to allocate resources (pointer) for prefetches if you're using a first gen 7000 series product.

 

I'd like to see some actively running program reporting realtime stall rate (CUs sitting around waiting for instructions/data) to get an idea of any type of performance left on the table if any depending on program.

 

Assuming this is being done due to some early bugs or driver issues that need to be worked out, If  *IF* this can be addressed in a future driver update (the snippet above is a driver level code snapshot), that right there could be a significant boost in performance.

 

On the other hand, if this is software acknowledging a hardware level issue for rev 1 hardware then rev 2 hardware should have nice gains.

 

I'm sure over the next few days (weeks?) We'll get clarity.

 

 

[electrosoft]

Right..... *wink wink* "Mistakenly" 🤪🤣

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/galax-mistakenly-announces-geforce-rtx-4090-ti-graphics-card

 

[cylix]

Nice, sexy card with 2x 16 pin, so 2x burning house chance?? 😁, and its coming to Europe aswell. I want one 😃

[Raiderman]

I love reading the comments on a review at techspot...I do hate when people go off on a political rant in the middles of talking about hardware. I hate morons.

 

[Papusan]

24 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

I love reading the comments on a review at techspot...I do hate when people go off on a political rant in the middles of talking about hardware. I hate morons.

 

The world is full of stupids. Just look below. People gladly pay 71% more over previous gen Nvidia xx80.

 

How is this even possible? 

 

 Nvidia's RTX 4080 Tops Newegg's List of Best-Selling GPUs

 

The GeForce RTX 4080 doesn't currently occupy a spot on our best graphics cards page, largely due to its price. But it has apparently become the best-selling graphics card on Newegg (opens in new tab). Meanwhile, the flagship GeForce RTX 4090 currently sits in fourth place.

 

If this is correct, this does not bode well for a real price reduction for the overpriced graphics card. My best bet... $1099 for the 4080 at best. Can't see Nvidia will go down to 7900XTX MSRP or $999.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

Also AMD tried do the same (price) trickery as nvidia. Offer a brand new graphics card that should never have seen the light. Nvidia had to remove the 12GB 4080 from their model line-up... AMD should have done the same. Or at least changed MSRP before release.

 

AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT Review

Is This GPU Dead on Arrival at $900?

 

What we have learned:

In our opinion, there's no reason to buy the Radeon RX 7900 XT, you'd always just spend $100 extra to get the faster 7900 XTX. For the XT model to make sense it needs to cost $200 less than the XTX.
 

 

[Raiderman]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

The world is full of stupids. Just look below. People gladly pay 71% more over previous gen Nvidia xx80.

 

How is this even possible? 

 

 Nvidia's RTX 4080 Tops Newegg's List of Best-Selling GPUs

 

The GeForce RTX 4080 doesn't currently occupy a spot on our best graphics cards page, largely due to its price. But it has apparently become the best-selling graphics card on Newegg (opens in new tab). Meanwhile, the flagship GeForce RTX 4090 currently sits in fourth place.

 

If this is correct, this does not bode well for a real price reduction for the overpriced graphics card. My best bet... $1099 for the 4080 at best. Can't see Nvidia will go down to 7900XTX MSRP or $999.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

Also AMD tried do the same (price) trickery as nvidia. Offer a brand new graphics card that should never have seen the light. Nvidia had to remove the 12GB 4080 from their model line-up... AMD should have done the same. Or at least changed MSRP before release.

 

AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT Review

Is This GPU Dead on Arrival at $900?

 

What we have learned:

In our opinion, there's no reason to buy the Radeon RX 7900 XT, you'd always just spend $100 extra to get the faster 7900 XTX. For the XT model to make sense it needs to cost $200 less than the XTX.
 

 

IMO Both Radeons should have been priced $100-$150 less than what they are. It was a paper launch to sell out quickly to give the illusion of massive sales.  I will take bother @Mr. Foxadvice and wait to see if prices come down on the XTX. I almost fell for it.