All about Windows 11 news and announcements

[Mr. Fox]

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

It seems Microsoft go over dead bodies to try help their partners. 

 

And who is the fool's bro @Mr. Fox? The crying babies or Microsoft? None say he or others has to install the latest and bugged. Just go back to Win 10 and enjoy your pc. 

 

 

Windows 11 Watermark Showing Up On Unsupported Systems

Microsoft implements plan to annoy users into upgrading PCs (or downgrading Windows)

 

At the moment, it looks like unsupported systems will only have to deal with a mildly-annoying watermark, but this could be the first step toward more drastic measures. Microsoft has warned that it will disable updates on unsupported systems (though this clearly has yet to come to fruition, as you'll only get the watermark if you install the latest update).

 

So, just go buy a new CPU (says Microsoft). Or uninstall Windows 11 and downgrade to Windows 10

It always helps keep things in perspective to remember that (a) Micro$lop is evil at the core of their corporate existence, and (b) fanboys lack the ability to think rationally about things. If the sheeple want to use Winduhz 11, it doesn't matter how crappy it is. In their minds it is the ultimate destiny and they are too stupid to use logic. This is not unique. The same can be said of crApple and their sick little minority group of fanboys, fangirls, and fan-its that are confused about everything.

 

The Redmond Reprobates are fully aware that by making the use of Winduhz XI more difficult that makes it elusively desirable for fanboys and rebels alike. That's why they do it. It would be less accepted if it installed on a potato or a tomato. Their roadblocks fuel defiance and controversy about a product that is unworthy of any manner of special attention.

 

Somebody in a high ranking position gets their jollies from watching emo fanboys have meltdowns and technically challenged wannabe crybabies whine about it.

[Linux]

Thanks to Linux only mode now, i finally can ignore this thread in the future. 😁

[Steerpike]

On 2/20/2023 at 1:44 PM, Mr. Fox said:

It will never be a "good" OS, just as Windowz 8.X and Windoze 10 were never a "good" OS. Each release has merely been a different gradient of product development failure.

There's one positive thing I will observe as 'Windows' has gone from 95 to 98 to 2000 to XP to Vista to 7 to 8.1 to 10 to 11 - ever increasing stability.  I remember when BSODs (and similar) were daily occurrences.  Even in the hallowed '7', there were plenty of BSODs, crashes, hangups.  My last set of '10' machines were very stable, and so far, my two new '11' machines have been rock-solid; maybe 1 'stability' issue in almost a year. That is undeniably progress. 

 

I don't care for the UI changes in '11', and I don't consider them 'progress', but I also don't consider them to be major problems (not in the way '8' was a disaster). '8' was, quite literally, unusable for non-touch users (with it's touch-focused UI). 

[Steerpike]

On 2/14/2023 at 2:48 AM, Mr. Fox said:

Sometimes change is not good. Sometimes saying "no" is the only correct answer. What I find most puzzling is the notion that anyone would want to deliberately reward Micro$lop's behavior when punishment and rejection and financial losses are what they deserve. Otherwise, you'll get more of the same, or worse.

 

Remember, many of us are using W11 because it came pre-installed on a brand-new laptop. We aren't directly paying MS anything - the machine vendor (in my case, LG) paid MS for the OEM version and I had no choice (and MS would have gotten the same OEM fee whether LG installed 10 or 11).  As an 'end user' without access to MS versions (used to, as an IT guy, but no longer as I'm retired/self-employed), it would be extremely hard, and not to mention risky, to try to 'downgrade' to W10 LTSC (driver issues, etc). 

 

I would never have 'upgraded' to W11, but now that I'm stuck with it I'm making the best of it. 

[Steerpike]

9 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

It always helps keep things in perspective to remember that (a) Micro$lop is evil at the core of their corporate existence, and (b) fanboys lack the ability to think rationally about things. If the sheeple want to use Winduhz 11, it doesn't matter how crappy it is. In their minds it is the ultimate destiny and they are too stupid to use logic. This is not unique. The same can be said of crApple and their sick little minority group of fanboys, fangirls, and fan-its that are confused about everything.

 

The Redmond Reprobates are fully aware that by making the use of Winduhz XI more difficult that makes it elusively desirable for fanboys and rebels alike. That's why they do it. It would be less accepted if it installed on a potato or a tomato. Their roadblocks fuel defiance and controversy about a product that is unworthy of any manner of special attention.

 

Somebody in a high ranking position gets their jollies from watching emo fanboys have meltdowns and technically challenged wannabe crybabies whine about it.

So 'keeping things in perspective', to you, means suggesting that MS deliberately makes upgrades harder to make it 'elusively desirable'? That some high-ranking executive gains pleasure from seeing customers have problems?  That's you having 'perspective'? 

[Mr. Fox]

6 hours ago, Steerpike said:

There's one positive thing I will observe as 'Windows' has gone from 95 to 98 to 2000 to XP to Vista to 7 to 8.1 to 10 to 11 - ever increasing stability.  I remember when BSODs (and similar) were daily occurrences.  Even in the hallowed '7', there were plenty of BSODs, crashes, hangups.  My last set of '10' machines were very stable, and so far, my two new '11' machines have been rock-solid; maybe 1 'stability' issue in almost a year. That is undeniably progress. 

 

I don't care for the UI changes in '11', and I don't consider them 'progress', but I also don't consider them to be major problems (not in the way '8' was a disaster). '8' was, quite literally, unusable for non-touch users (with it's touch-focused UI). 

To some extent this is subjective, but I agree that the atrocity of the Windoze 8.X GUI has been unmatched. I find the Winduhz 11 GUI also disgusting, a downgrade from Windowz 10, but nowhere nearly as unacceptable as 8.X.

6 hours ago, Steerpike said:

Remember, many of us are using W11 because it came pre-installed on a brand-new laptop. We aren't directly paying MS anything - the machine vendor (in my case, LG) paid MS for the OEM version and I had no choice (and MS would have gotten the same OEM fee whether LG installed 10 or 11).  As an 'end user' without access to MS versions (used to, as an IT guy, but no longer as I'm retired/self-employed), it would be extremely hard, and not to mention risky, to try to 'downgrade' to W10 LTSC (driver issues, etc). 

 

I would never have 'upgraded' to W11, but now that I'm stuck with it I'm making the best of it. 

I suspect most consumers are stuck, if for no reason than a lack of technical know-how. Cost isn't a real excuse, because you can get a Windowz 10 Pro key for $20 or less and download the ISO for free from Micro$lop and a variety of third-party servers. The technical know-how is the only real issue, and it's a big deal for most consumers.

6 hours ago, Steerpike said:

So 'keeping things in perspective', to you, means suggesting that MS deliberately makes upgrades harder to make it 'elusively desirable'? That some high-ranking executive gains pleasure from seeing customers have problems?  That's you having 'perspective'? 

Yup, pretty much. They're Nazis and have adopted the crApple control freak approach to everything. They believe that consumers are just sheeple that are too stupid to know what's best, so they will decide for us all, and they take steps to attempt to limit the freedom of individuals to make their own decisions.

[Aaron44126]

45 minutes ago, Steerpike said:

I remember when BSODs (and similar) were daily occurrences.

 

Eh.  From my perspective, Windows 3.x + 9x was one thing (house of cards OS with pretty regular BSODs)...  but with anything on the NT base, BSODs are almost always the result of hardware issue, driver issue, or an issue with other low-level third-party software.  Whenever I run across one (very rare) I always take the steps to figure out exactly what was at fault.  (Microsoft has really good documentation for diagnosing, but that can require going in through windbg/etc. and I get that not everyone knows how to do that.)  The only times that I can remember it being a genuine Windows issue have been related to bugs around a brand new OS release / upgrade.

 

My big issues with Windows 11 are the continued push towards trying to make money off of users beyond the license payment (data monetization, pushing people to Bing search to get ad revenue, aggressively pushing people to Edge to grow the install base so that they can make money off of their eCommerce "features", etc....), which I think is a generally yucky business practice ... and then the fact that they launched it in the state that they did, with no time for a proper feedback cycle, missing / dumbed down features compared to Windows 10, and so on.  (Wrote all about it in my article linked in sig.)

 

Nothing against anyone who is now using Windows 11.  It's mostly fine.  There are some genuinely good enhancements in there mixed in with the muck (WSA, VRR improvements, new versions of core apps like Notepad and Task Manager with real improvements).  ...I'm just not going to support that direction of the product.

 

27 minutes ago, Steerpike said:

That's you having 'perspective'? 

15 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

up, pretty much. They're Nazis and have adopted the crApple control freak approach to everything. They believe that consumers are just sheeple that are too stupid to know what's best, so they will decide for us all, and they take steps to attempt to limit the freedom or individuals to make their own decisions.

 

The words are extreme but there is truth in there for sure ...

Now, I don't necessarily think that they are "evil", but rather just looking for ways to make more money (it's business after all) and they are obviously not operating with the end user's best interest as the top priority in some cases.  This has also gotten worse since Windows 10's release... these sorts of things happened way less in Windows 8 and earlier.

 

Again, as one example, just look at how hard Microsoft is hawking Microsoft Edge.  It's not just an advertising campaign; they've taken real, technical steps and embedded them in their products.  They purposefully made it a hassle to switch the default browser to something else (rolled back after public pressure).  Even now they will inject code into the Google Chrome download page to display a banner and try to convince you to stay on Edge (this article is from two days ago) — I do not want my browser modifying the page being served (unless its for malware/phishing protection).  They're definitely taking real steps to try to tell people what they want or influence the products that they use, which I would argue is inappropriate and far beyond the "job" of an operating system or web browser.

[Steerpike]

4 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

Eh.  From my perspective, Windows 3.x + 9x was one thing (house of cards OS with pretty regular BSODs)...  but with anything on the NT base, BSODs are almost always the result of hardware issue, driver issue, or an issue with other low-level third-party software.  ...

I agree that BSODs are generally / frequently caused by driver issues, but I had my fair share of them when working with mainstream vendors such as Dell and Lenovo over my career in corporate IT (and with my home-brew PCs) right up through Win 7. Typical remedies were to "downgrade drivers", "get the driver from the vendor not from Dell", "tweak settings on the driver", etc etc. So yes, driver issues at the core, perhaps, but - I do believe MS have taken steps, steadily, to isolate 'driver issues' from causing crashes / BSODs. Or, maybe they just improved the OS/driver interface such that it was inherently less sensitive. So I'm willing to credit MS for reducing their frequency. I've gone 10 months now with my LG laptop (and another 8 months with my Samsung) and the machines simply never need restarting (other than updates ...). I 'sleep' them when necessary and they just keep going. 

 

4 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

My big issues with Windows 11 are the continued push towards trying to make money off of users beyond the license payment (data monetization, pushing people to Bing search to get ad revenue, aggressively pushing people to Edge to grow the install base so that they can make money off of their eCommerce "features", etc....), which I think is a generally yucky business practice ... and then the fact that they launched it in the state that they did, with no time for a proper feedback cycle, missing / dumbed down features compared to Windows 10, and so on.  (Wrote all about it in my article linked in sig.)

...

I don't like the way they occasionally switch my defaults around, and make it ever-more difficult to change, but - I use Chrome browser/Google search, IrfanView image editor, VLan video player, Foxit PDF reader, ImgBurn DVD burner, etc etc and I've had virtually no issues installing, using, and keeping them.  In my 10 months with W11, I've yet to see any solid examples of this 'monetization' effort.  I do use Edge once in a while (as an alt to Chrome), and I intentionally left 'Bing' as it's search engine, and while I don't like it, 'it works' and I don't see any more commercialization than in Chrome/Google.

 

I have also observed, as you have, some key improvements in things like Notepad, File Manager, even command prompt! But I haven't attributed those to 'W11' since I've also noticed that they often retroactively release those into W10, so I don't know which features are truly 'unique' to W11 vs just 'new versions' being released to W10 and W11 equally. I'm also noticing that 'settings' ('modern settings'?) is finally getting built out to the point where I have to visit 'control panel' less and less. I still love Control Panel, but with W10 it was really a split set of features, whereas now it's looking like I can almost do everything within 'Settings' so that's a marginal improvement. 

 

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

... They're Nazis and have adopted the crApple control freak approach to everything. ...

Maybe it's just me, but - I spend a fair amount of time 'on the internet' and I really, really wish I could visit a tech forum, or a car forum, or a food forum, without seeing accusations like 'Nazi' being bandied about.  I was reading about some car feature yesterday, and one guy managed to slip in a reference to 'plandemic'.  I really wish such discussions could be constrained within the myriad of political forums.  The minute I read 'Nazi' or 'Plandemic' or whatever, I write off the author and the post. 

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, Steerpike said:

Maybe it's just me, but - I spend a fair amount of time 'on the internet' and I really, really wish I could visit a tech forum, or a car forum, or a food forum, without seeing accusations like 'Nazi' being bandied about.  I was reading about some car feature yesterday, and one guy managed to slip in a reference to 'plandemic'.  I really wish such discussions could be constrained within the myriad of political forums.  The minute I read 'Nazi' or 'Plandemic' or whatever, I write off the author and the post. 

It's unfortunate that you're overly sensitive about the use of hyperbole to convey disdain and contempt because people that use hyperbole and metaphoric speech to communicate are not going to stop doing so. It's kind of weird in light of how common it is in a debase culture that non-chalantly uses truly vulgar language, often extreme, in casual conversation, motion picture and music entertainment, which is far more inappropriate and offensive, and not even fitting the context in many cases. Yet, that's OK but using Nazi in place of "[insert vulgar expletive] control freak" is not. Seems so odd.

[Steerpike]

20 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

It's unfortunate that you're overly sensitive about the use of hyperbole to convey disdain and contempt because people that use hyperbole and metaphoric speech to communicate are not going to stop doing so. It's kind of weird in light of how common it is in a debase culture that non-chalantly uses truly vulgar language, often extreme, in casual conversation, motion picture and music entertainment, which is far more inappropriate and offensive, and not even fitting the context in many cases. Yet, that's OK but using Nazi in place of "[insert vulgar expletive] control freak" is not. Seems so odd.

But if you used [vulgar expletive] on this forum, the post would be deleted by the mods, and I'd like the same applied to hyperbolic references to 'Hitler' or 'Nazis'.  To somehow associate a company like Apple to 'Nazis' is not only silly but offensive.  I encounter this all over the place, and roll with it, but I just have the hope that when I come to a 'pure tech' forum, or a 'pure car' forum, the discussion will be limited to the subject at hand, and will be conducted in a 'normal adult fashion'. 

More generally, though, exaggeration to the extreme is just not effective communication in my opinion. To suggest that MS Execs willfully inflict distress on their users is plain silly. We can agree that they are incompetent, missing the boat, losing business; but to suggest they have motivations other than profit just doesn't make sense. 

 

[Mr. Fox]

23 minutes ago, Steerpike said:

We can agree that they are incompetent, missing the boat, losing business; but to suggest they have motivations other than profit just doesn't make sense. 

When the motivation make money to the exclusion of doing what is best and right for the people they collect that money from becomes evident, I think it is appropriate to regard that behavior as evil, wicked, self-serving and a totalitarian approach to business. Maybe some will disagree, and that's fine. I appreciate not having to deal with idiotic woke censorship in this pure tech forum. The world around us is crumbling because of it. I'm not concerned about people looking for reason to claim offense to word choices they don't like or other forms of virtue signaling and left-leaning political correctness. That's just what they do.

[Papusan]

No panic! Desktop flickers and stops responding after the last Windows 11 update (KB5022913) (Explorer Patcher)? The solution!
https://www.igorslab.de/en/no-panic-desktop-flickers-after-last-windows-update-kb5022913-and-no-reaction-explorer-patcher/

 

Conclusion...
So please less colorful nonsense, but more stability and fewer barriers for smooth work. It really can't be that difficult. This is written by someone with 17 honestly purchased licenses who is now really considering changing the operating system in the office for good. You're simply stealing valuable work and life time from me with such childish behavior.

 

New modern Windows... Mostly for gamer-kids and those that enjoy idiocy😎

[Steerpike]

11 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

When the motivation make money to the exclusion of doing what is best and right for the people they collect that money from becomes evident, I think it is appropriate to regard that behavior as evil, wicked, self-serving and a totalitarian approach to business. Maybe some will disagree, and that's fine. I appreciate not having to deal with idiotic woke censorship in this pure tech forum. The world around us is crumbling because of it. I'm not concerned about people looking for reason to claim offense to word choices they don't like or other forms of virtue signaling and left-leaning political correctness. That's just what they do.

If you knew me IRL, you'd know I was strongly opposed to 'woke nonsense', cancel culture, Political Correctness.  But that's a discussion for Reddit and other places. This is a forum created by a few volunteers (spending their own hard-earned money, with no advertising) for the benefit of the 'notebook' community as a whole.  It should be possible to express dissatisfaction with various corporations without ridiculous hyperbole. It's about being respectful and acting like an adult. 

[Aaron44126]

From Microsoft today, we have some news on the next feature updates coming to Windows 11 (available today on-demand, or will be rolled out to everyone on March 14 with the security update).

 

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/continuous-innovation-coming-to-windows-11-in-march/ba-p/3754057

Quote

Why are you releasing new features now instead of waiting for a feature update?

We receive feedback that people want more from their Windows experience. By delivering new value through servicing technology more often, we can help your organization benefit from improved security, productivity, and collaboration today in a proven, reliable way without sacrificing quality.

 

Without sacrificing quality?  Right...  Windows 11 quality continues to be suspect for me.  Apparently you haven't been able to sleep a Windows 11 system with a game controller connected until this month.  Regarding pushing forward without testing carefully enough, they were recently offering Windows 11 upgrades to Windows 10 systems that don't even meet the hardware requirements for Windows 11.

 

Anyway, this feature drip without regular (non-business) end users really having a way to control when changes are pushed upon them also continues to be an issue.  (Maybe I have concerns about the AI-enhanced Bing search taskbar widget that is being added...)  Not that I expect this to ever change...

 

So, here are some more details about the update.

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2023/02/28/introducing-a-big-update-to-windows-11-making-the-everyday-easier-including-bringing-the-new-ai-powered-bing-to-the-taskbar/

 

OK, there's some appreciable stuff in here.  Screen recording in the Snipping Tool is cool (I've always wondered why Windows doesn't have a built-in screen recording function), as well as tabs for Notepad.

Spoiler

 

Better iOS support for the phone link app is welcome as well, for iPhone users anyway, but apparently that is not going to be production-ready and will be available for Insiders only for now.

https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2023/02/28/previewing-phone-link-for-iphone-users-on-windows-11-with-windows-insiders/

Spoiler

 

Looking forward to trying it all out ..... in another ≈21 months when there is a long-term support version.

[Steerpike]

8 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

From Microsoft today, we have some news on the next feature updates coming to Windows 11 (available today on-demand, or will be rolled out to everyone on March 14 with the security update).

...

 

OK, there's some appreciable stuff in here.  Screen recording in the Snipping Tool is cool (I've always wondered why Windows doesn't have a built-in screen recording function), as well as tabs for Notepad.

...

Better iOS support for the phone link app is welcome as well, for iPhone users anyway, but apparently that is not going to be production-ready and will be available for Insiders only for now....

 

As I noted upthread, I'm never sure which improvements are unique to W11 vs which improvements are retro-fitted to W10 also.  Today I fired up my W10 laptop for the first time in months and made sure it's fully updated.  I tested Notepad on W10; no tabs (unlike W11), and, it did not have a feature I've started to notice and appreciate on my W11 laptop - cursor position retention.  On the win 11 laptop, Notepad 'remembers' the column position in a row, even after it encounters 'short' or 'empty' rows as I navigate with the up/down arrows. On W10, notepad always resets cursor position to the 'most recent left-most position' as you navigate up/down through the rows of different lengths. Not a big deal by any stretch, but a welcome feature. 

 

On win11, I noticed that the command prompt window (CMD) now supports tabs, and - very cool - allows you to split the current tab into 2, 3, 4 (at least - I stopped at 4) segments, each with its own 'session'. You can also mix/match 'command' and 'powershell' windows / sessions. (use 'alt' while clicking the 'plus' icon for new tab):

 

This feature does not appear to be available in windows 10. 

 

I've also been playing around with the 'SmartView' / Miracast feature; I can wirelessly project to my TV and watch videos. Works surprisingly well. I can also project from my phone to my laptop - works in w11, fails in w10 (possibly hardware related). 

 

EDIT TO ADD: I just noticed, my W11 installation already has Snipping Tool with the video screen capture!  It works very well - allows you to capture any random rectangle on the screen, as you 'do things', then you can save it to an MP4 file. That's going to come in quite handy I'm sure! 

 

[Aaron44126]

39 minutes ago, Steerpike said:

On win11, I noticed that the command prompt window (CMD) now supports...

This feature does not appear to be available in windows 10.

 

The command prompt features are available on Windows 10 but you have to download the separate "Terminal" app from the Windows Store.  (It's provided by Microsoft.)  It's a slick app and highly configurable.  I easily added a Ubuntu Linux WSL shell option to the menu to go along with the default "cmd" and "PowerShell" options, customizing the color to have a dark purple background (like "real" Ubuntu).  Microsoft has bundled it with Windows 11 and made it the default console.

 

Notepad has not been updated on Windows 10 (as you noticed).  However, Notepad is sort of a last-resort text editor for me.  I generally fire up Notepad++ (free) if I'm not using a dedicated code editor like Visual Studio; UltraEdit is also nice (not free).

[Steerpike]

3 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

The command prompt features are available on Windows 10 but you have to download the separate "Terminal" app from the Windows Store.  (It's provided by Microsoft.)  Microsoft has bundled it with Windows 11 and made it the default console.

 

Notepad has not been updated on Windows 10 (as you noticed).  However, Notepad is sort of a last-resort text editor for me.  I generally fire up Notepad++.

Notepad has always been a bit limited, but with these minor improvements, it gets closer to being useful. Each time I get a new laptop/PC, I wait before installing 3rd party extras until I really need them; so far, I've managed not to need Notepad++ !   I just tried Snipping tool and it has the 'video capture' mode already.  I checked on my W10 machine, and it doesn't have this feature BUT - it also tells me 'Snipping Tool is moving ...' and let's me launch 'Snip & Sketch'. I get no such notice on W11 - it's almost like the two are diverging! 

 

The Command Prompt enhancement is great - having multiple windows 'split screen' is really going to be useful! 

 

Edit To Add - the new Tabbed Notepad feature has actually taken away something that was added not too long ago, that I liked. With the previous version, if you had a bunch of notepad instances open, the filename would appear in the 'window title' when you hovered over the icon in the tray, AND, an 'asterisk' (*) would appear next to any file that was not yet saved. Now, the windows all say 'Notepad' and don't indicate the saved status.  This is probably a consequence of going 'tabbed', since one 'window' can potentially have multiple files associated with it; but that conceptual limitation doesn't apply to File Manager sessions, which have also become tabbed. They still show the 'folder' name of the folder currently open in the tab that has focus, so Notepad could have done the same (show the filename for the tab that has focus). Oh well ...  

[Aaron44126]

Yesterday's "optional" Windows 11 22H2 moment 2 update breaks some Windows 11 customization tools (ExplorerPatcher, StartAllBack, Start11, etc.).  An update to these products will be required.

https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-explorerpatcher-startallback-start11-break-on-windows-11-moment-2-kb5022913/

StartAllBack has posted an update already, and Start11 posted a "beta" update which you can find on their forums with a full release imminent.

 

Interestingly, Microsoft has acknowledged this in their known issues page (so they must know there are people out there that dislike their feature removals around the taskbar and start menu, right??).

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/status-windows-11-22H2#third-party-ui-customization-apps-might-cause-windows-to-not-start-up

 

And on the subject of "this should have been tested more before shipping" (common theme with Windows 11), the new tabbed Notepad shipped with a regression that could be obnoxious to some.  If you try to close just one Notepad window with File->Exit (or the Alt+F, X keyboard sequence), it will try to close all of them.  Maybe you could argue that this is appropriate behavior — you asked to "Exit" Notepad so it should close out everything.  But, it is a difference from how it behaved before, and behavioral changes to core apps like that shouldn't be made willy-nilly.

https://twitter.com/WithinRafael/status/1630691488635166720

[Aaron44126]

The headline feature for moment 2 (the whole thing about AI-enhanced Bing search), as far as it relates to Windows itself, apparently boils down to:

• The update will add the search box back to the taskbar if you previously removed it.
  • (I always remove it, it takes up space and you can search just by starting to type while the Start Menu is open.)
• If you try to search using the search box on the taskbar, it behaves the same as it did prior to the update.
• ...But if you click the search box and do not type anything, you will notice they've added a big button to "try the new Bing" and some prompts to engage with their AI chat thing — interacting with this just opens Edge and takes you to a Bing web site.  (...They don't care about your default browser, you'll get Edge.)

So, basically they've just added another advertisement for Bing (& Edge).

https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-11-moment-2s-headline-feature-is-nothing-but-an-ad-for-bing-and-edge/

 

This, this is how you do an update.  Override user preferences, and try to nudge people someplace where you can collect some ad revenue.  😕

[Papusan]

50 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

The headline feature for moment 2 (the whole thing about AI-enhanced Bing search), as far as it relates to Windows itself, apparently boils down to:

• The update will add the search box back to the taskbar if you previously removed it.
  • (I always remove it, it takes up space and you can search just by starting to type while the Start Menu is open.)
• If you try to search using the search box on the taskbar, it behaves the same as it did prior to the update.
• ...But if you click the search box and do not type anything, you will notice they've added a big button to "try the new Bing" and some prompts to engage with their AI chat thing — interacting with this just opens Edge and takes you to a Bing web site.  (...They don't care about your default browser, you'll get Edge.)

So, basically they've just added another advertisement for Bing (& Edge).

https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-11-moment-2s-headline-feature-is-nothing-but-an-ad-for-bing-and-edge/

 

This, this is how you do an update.  Override user preferences, and try to nudge people someplace where you can collect some ad revenue.  😕

 

What a great new fature update for desktop PC users. What a Joke bro @Mr. Fox But I expect Microsoft will try once again with new fancy computers so their OS has to match. People want it, so badly.... 

 

I wish 8-inch Windows tablets would come back pcworld.com/Senior Editor, PCWorld
A modern, compact Windows tablet is the one thing I’m missing in my device lineup.

 

Every product reflects the era it’s born into, and Windows 8 was no exception. Launched a year and a half after Apple’s iPad, the successor to Windows 7 was designed to combat the so-called end of the PC.

 

 

Microsoft has begun rolling out a major update to Windows 11 (KB5022913) with a whole bunch of new and updated features in tow, such as a touch-optimized taskbar for 2-in-1 devices and an improved search box experience. This is a preview update that's now available to the general public, though before you grab it you should be aware of a Windows boot loop issue that Microsoft disclosed.

 

https://hothardware.com/news/microsoft-windows-11-update-here-beware-issues

[Steerpike]

14 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Yesterday's "optional" Windows 11 22H2 moment 2 update breaks some Windows 11 customization tools (ExplorerPatcher, StartAllBack, Start11, etc.).  An update to these products will be required.

https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-explorerpatcher-startallback-start11-break-on-windows-11-moment-2-kb5022913/

StartAllBack has posted an update already, and Start11 posted a "beta" update which you can find on their forums with a full release imminent.

I was just reading the EP thread in Win11 forum, and it seems EP was updated today (first time in ages!) to address the various issues caused by the recent update. Page 70, post number 1,393 onwards (I tried to post a link to it but it was blocked).  I stopped using it weeks ago due to various issues; not sure if I'm ready to go back as I'm quite comfortable with native at the moment! 

14 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

...

And on the subject of "this should have been tested more before shipping" (common theme with Windows 11), the new tabbed Notepad shipped with a regression that could be obnoxious to some.  If you try to close just one Notepad window with File->Exit (or the Alt+F, X keyboard sequence), it will try to close all of them.  Maybe you could argue that this is appropriate behavior — you asked to "Exit" Notepad so it should close out everything.  But, it is a difference from how it behaved before, and behavioral changes to core apps like that shouldn't be made willy-nilly.

https://twitter.com/WithinRafael/status/1630691488635166720

I've been experimenting with tabbed notepad since you posted about it yesterday. Since I don't like how they changed the way the taskbar icon reflects the filenames and 'saved' status, I didn't go very far with it, but I did another test now and I can see what you mean.  However - if I change any file within the tab-set, and don't save it, I will be prompted to save before exit; so it's not as if it's causing the loss of edits.  Further - thinking about how Chrome, Edge, File Manager (newly tabbed), and many other tabbed interfaces work, how is this different from any other tabbed interface? If there's nothing to save, then what 'should' the user be told? "you are about to close multiple tabs; are you sure?". I would certainly appreciate that, but I can't think of any tabbed app that does that. 

 

Meanwhile - yesterday I decided to install Notepad++ again, so that may be the end of my flirtation with Notepad!  I can run it by hitting Win+R and entering notepad++, or of course pin it to start or taskbar.  Notepad++ has great 'recovery' behavior, and will re-open un-saved edits (not sure how robust that is ...). But interestingly, to your point above about closing a multi-tab interface, Notepad++ doesn't blink an eye when you close it, even when there are unsaved changes!  As I said - it has great 'recovery' so this isn't necessarily a big issue, but still.  I just opened 3 files in N++, edited them all, then hit 'x'. No warning, no offer to save. I then re-launched N++, and it re-opened all 3 files, showed my recent edits, but still indicated that the edits were not committed/saved.  So N++ lets you skate on very think ice! 

 

[Aaron44126]

8 hours ago, Steerpike said:

If there's nothing to save, then what 'should' the user be told? "you are about to close multiple tabs; are you sure?".

 

Yeah, it's not just tabs that it tries to close though.  It makes sense if you close a window then it will try to close all of the tabs.  But what happens is, if you have multiple Notepad windows open (whole separate windows, not just separate tabs), File->Exit in one window will try to close all of them, and that could definitely be seen as weird, especially if you are used to separate Notepad windows being "unrelated" to each other.  (You can open multiple Notepad windows just by firing up the app multiple times.)

 

It will stop and ask about saving things if there are unsaved changes, but I can see a case of "Where did that window go ...?" happening if there were not unsaved changes.

 

8 hours ago, Steerpike said:

Notepad++ doesn't blink an eye when you close it, even when there are unsaved changes!

 

There must be a setting for this because this is not the behavior that I experience.  If I try to close it and there are unsaved changes, I am prompted to ask about saving them.  There are actually five options (Yes, No, Cancel, Yes to all, No to all) — and I can actually remember when they added those "Yes/No to all" options, I was very appreciative because before that I would have to go through several prompts answering "No, no, no, no" to get it to close.  (I tend to do "scratch work" in Notepad++ and it's normal for me to have multiple tabs filled with junk that I do not want to save.)

 

I know that I have turned off the session management function that causes it to reopen the same files that were open before when a new instance is started.  I don't find that to be desirable behavior in most apps, I want a clean slate when I open it.  Maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[Edit]

It looks like the option might be in Preferences, under Backup, "Remember current session for next launch" (disabled for me).  There's also options in there about how often to "snapshot" the session and where to save the session backup files.

[Steerpike]

7 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

Yeah, it's not just tabs that it tries to close though.  It makes sense if you close a window then it will try to close all of the tabs.  But what happens is, if you have multiple Notepad windows open (whole separate windows, not just separate tabs), File->Exit in one window will try to close all of them, and that could definitely be seen as weird, especially if you are used to separate Notepad windows being "unrelated" to each other.  (You can open multiple Notepad windows just by firing up the app multiple times.)

 

It will stop and ask about saving things if there are unsaved changes, but I can see a case of "Where did that window go ...?" happening if there were not unsaved changes.

 

Oh boy - I just tried this and sure enough - File/Exit closed TWO windows.   I almost never use File/exit (or alt-F/X) in this scenario ; I tend to hit the 'x' in the upper right corner, OR, hit the 'x' on the taskbar pop-up, both of which act on the chosen window only. 

 

HOWEVER - I just tested with Excel; I had 3 spreadsheets opened, three separate instances of Excel. I used Alt-F/X to exit one Excel instance, and all three spreadsheets closed! Same with Word; two open docs, both closed using Alt-F/X (Note - 'exit' is not presented on the menu for 'File' in Excel or Word; but regardless, hitting 'x' does perform an exit). Next, I tried Chrome; I had 30+ tabs open in one window, and another couple of tabs in a second window. I used alt/enter (to get the menu) then 'x' - and BOTH windows closed!  So in fact, it would seem that Notepad is behaving like most other windows! 

 

7 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

There must be a setting for this because this is not the behavior that I experience.  If I try to close it and there are unsaved changes, I am prompted to ask about saving them.  There are actually five options (Yes, No, Cancel, Yes to all, No to all) — and I can actually remember when they added those "Yes/No to all" options, I was very appreciative because before that I would have to go through several prompts answering "No, no, no, no" to get it to close.  (I tend to do "scratch work" in Notepad++ and it's normal for me to have multiple tabs filled with junk that I do not want to save.)

 

I know that I have turned off the session management function that causes it to reopen the same files that were open before when a new instance is started.  I don't find that to be desirable behavior in most apps, I want a clean slate when I open it.  Maybe that has something to do with it.

 

7 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

[Edit]

It looks like the option might be in Preferences, under Backup, "Remember current session for next launch" (disabled for me).  There's also options in there about how often to "snapshot" the session and where to save the session backup files.

It would appear (from N++ user forum) that if you have the 'enable session snapshot and periodic backup' enabled, then 'save on exit' is not presented. This does strike me as odd; you should be able to have 'snapshots' AND still be prompted to save on exit, IMHO (without a 'save', the N++ private backup is retained, but the file itself is not written so if you were to edit an important script file, and exit without saving, the file itself would not be updated. I would like to be prompted to save unsaved edits on EXIT, but - I don't want to give up on the snapshot/backup feature.  HOWEVER - since their snapshot / backup feature seems very robust, I'll just live with it how it is! 

[Aaron44126]

14 minutes ago, Steerpike said:

So in fact, it would seem that Notepad is behaving like most other windows!

 

Yeah, the key thing here is that the behavior has changed without warning.  You can try on Windows 10, and File->Exit will only close the current window.  (This was also the case on Windows 11 until earlier this week when they pushed out this update.)

 

Maybe I'm just old fashioned.  One could go back and forth over which behavior is more appropriate, but that's not really what I care about.  I think that behavioral changes to Windows components should not be disallowed, but they should be reserved for major revisions and the user should have some input as to when such a major update gets applied.  That way, you know when to expect changes, and otherwise there is no chance for workflow disruption.  Microsoft always used to stick with this, until pretty recently.  Now, it's just fair game as to when they want to change pretty much anything, and users are just along for the ride...

 

As a case in point, Rafael Rivera notes that he was using Alt+F,X instead of Alt+F4 just because it is less of a stretch on the keyboard, and it's basically muscle memory for him (having been the way Notepad has worked for ... 30 years?), and now he has to learn a new behavior (assuming Microsoft doesn't promptly restore the old behavior).

[Steerpike]

7 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

Yeah, the key thing here is that the behavior has changed without warning.  You can try on Windows 10, and File->Exit will only close the current window.  (This was also the case on Windows 11 until earlier this week when they pushed out this update.)

 

Maybe I'm just old fashioned.  I think that behavioral changes to Windows components should not be disallowed, but they should be reserved for major revisions and the user should have some input as to when such a major update gets applied.  Microsoft always used to stick with this, until pretty recently.  Now, it's just fair game as to when they want to change pretty much anything, and users are just along for the ride...

 

As a case in point, Rafael Rivera notes that he was using Alt+F,X instead of Alt+F4 just because it is less of a stretch on the keyboard, and it's basically muscle memory for him (having been the way Notepad has worked for ... 30 years?), and now he has to learn a new behavior (assuming Microsoft doesn't promptly restore the old behavior).

I agree, they shouldn't change behavior willy nilly even if it is in the direction of consistency.  I GUESS the right answer here is, a user-preference should be introduced (possibly in registry?) so that the people who rely on the behavior aren't impacted.  I'm not too bothered by this one, though, because (as already noted) they DON'T close unsaved files and it IS in support of greater consistency. Further - and I don't know how new this is - if you pin Notepad to the task bar, and right-click it, you now get a full-blown 'recent' file list, so anything that was opened can be quickly re-opened.  I'm far more annoyed that they took away the 'unsaved' file marker (asterisk - *).