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Clamibot

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Everything posted by Clamibot

  1. Clamibot
    Yeah that person definitely has no idea what they're talking about. My Clevo X170SM-G would like to have a word with this individual. I can sustain a 220 watt power draw on the CPU indefinitely, whether the GPU is running at full speed or not, and the GPU consumes about 220 watts under full load as well. That's a combined 440 watt power draw, which my laptop can sustain indefinitely. During the winter, I can even get the CPU up to 275 watts. My laptop can't sustain that indefinitely, but it can sustain that power draw from the CPU long enough to complete bursty workloads. No other laptop in the world can boost the CPU up to 275 watts. That's almost double what this individual claims previous DTRs were capable of. Perhaps they need to do more research to check their facts. Additionally, there's no reason to ridicule someone who is ridiculing a company for not delivering as good of a product as they delivered in the past. People who give a company a pass for delivering something worse than their previous products, and then defending that company's decision have something seriously screwed up with their thought process. I think the day where I'm forced to make my own laptop is getting closer. I've been contemplating it for a while since MXM upgrades are ridiculously expensive. I may actually end up doing it if I become frustrated enough with the current state of the market for us enthusiasts. I've been slowly updating my parts list over the past 6 years 🤣.
  2. Clamibot
    I typically avoid using Clevo Control Center for overclocking, undervolting, or just general tuning on my system. I uninstalled it since I don't need anything it provides, and I have the performance mode of my laptop set to Hyperperformance in the BIOS. For CPU overclocking/undervolting, I'd highly recommend using Intel XTU. XTU provides a lot of options to tune your system to your liking. Many forum members prefer Throttlestop, but I prefer XTU. I've always liked it more. For GPU overclocking, I recommend MSI Afterburner. You can customize the interface and you have core and memory frequency controls, along with monitoring for various things (such as core and memory frequency, individual CPU frequencies, etc). However if you're dead set on using Clevo Control Center for your tuning needs, it has options for overclocking the CPU and GPU. You can set the CPU frequency and voltage offset only if the laptop is set to performance mode within the power mode section. You can also set the GPU core and memory frequencies.
  3. Clamibot
    @DDAY3493 Thanks for all of this information. We now have a nice little upgrade guide here for anyone who wants to stick a Quadro RTX 5000 in their Alienware 18.
  4. Clamibot
    K5 Pro seems to hold pretty well. I've taken off the heatsink on my Clevo X170 and put it back on multiple times now without reapplying anything. The first time I took off the heatsink, I thought the thermal pads had melted! I didn't know what K5 Pro was until I found out that zTecpc applies it to components that would traditionally have thermal pads on them, such as VRAM chips and VRMs. K5 Pro is gooey, but also pretty viscous. It'll hold for multiple remounts of the heatsink. The same goes for thermal paste. I don't normally bother repasting as I can just reseat the thermal paste that is already there and have the heatsink respread the paste for me as I put it back on.
  5. Clamibot
    To be fair, if you want more power, all that's needed is the addition of a second power inlet port. In this case, if all laptops were to go to USB-C ports for power delivery, we'd just need 2 USB-C ports on the laptop with PD support. With the new USB-C power rating, 2 ports with PD support allows for a maximum power draw of 480 watts, which is enough to power a true DTR. I think it'd be pretty neat for laptops to all drop their proprietary chargers in favor of a standard power delivery port. That may get us back on track to develop new standards across all laptops, some of which are hopefully socketed CPUs and graphics cards like what we had before. The more standards used across all laptops that there are, the better.
  6. Clamibot
    Unless you're someone like Khenglish and have some mad soldering skills. That dude soldered a freaking desktop GTX 980 GPU core to an MXM card that originally had a 980m GPU core on it, and then he made it work perfectly! He could probably do something similar with this laptop, that is, he can bin some 12900Ks, desolder the CPU off the laptop, solder the best 12900K in its place, and then bam! You now have a better binned CPU in the Scar Strix 17 SE. It's very impractical, but still doable, just not for the average user. It's not even doable for a lot of us on this forum, myself included 🤣.
  7. Clamibot
    The fact that this laptop has good BIOS options (ex: being able to disable the e-cores) is promising. How high can the CPU's P-cores be overclocked with the e-cores disabled? I'm glad there's an option to disable the e-cores since the P-cores are what matter in games anyway. I think I saw someone before do 5.5 GHz all P-core on a 12900K while pulling 187 watts. They disabled the e-cores to achieve that. Assuming that the i9 12950HX is a binned 12900K, 5.5 GHz all P-core may be achievable within the 175 watt PL2. Assuming this laptop gets a refresh with an i9 13950HX when Raptor Lake releases, we may be able to achieve 6 GHz clock speeds in this laptop when the CPU is overclocked. Now that would be an amazing feat, even if it wasn't across all the P-cores. Even having that on one or two cores in a laptop would be an amazing feat. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but hey, one can dream right? The power allowance should allow for such a thing to happen if the thermals can be kept under control.
  8. Clamibot
    Clevo made the NH55JNNQ, which is a 15 inch laptop with an LGA socket for 12th gen Intel desktop CPUs. The GPU is BGA, but at least the CPU is a socketed desktop CPU. The Clevo X270 should've at least had an LGA socket for desktop CPUs as well. If the X270 truly is what this video shows, then Asus's ROG Strix Scar 17 SE is a better offering. That laptop is full BGA as well, but has a monster unified vapor chamber heatsink, and the CPU is a desktop CPU, just adapted to a BGA socket. Perhaps Clevo will come out with another offering that is a 17 inch laptop with an LGA socket for a future Intel desktop CPU. It's hard to believe they'd abandon true DTRs completely since that has been their specialty for decades now. If Clevo truly has abandoned true DTRs, then I guess it's back to mainstream brands then. Sigh...
  9. Clamibot
    Quadro RTX 5000 in an Alienware 18? That sounds amazing! Routing video through the iGPU may be affecting how high the screen can overclock. The iGPU has a lot less performance and memory bandwidth than a dGPU, so it would stand to reason that it wouldn't be able to support as high of a screen overclock since it's not as capable of a GPU. That may explain the artifacting at higher screen overclocks. However, I've seen iGPUs drive 120 Hz and 144 Hz displays before, so that may not be it. Another potential explanation is the output bandwidth allowed by the internal connection from the iGPU to the screen. Alienware laptops from 2013 and before have a MUX switch that allows for switching between optimus mode and dGPU only mode. The input into the MUX coming from the iGPU may have less bandwidth available to it than the output into the MUX coming from the dGPU. This would make sense since the dGPU is much more powerful, and can therefore deliver a much higher framerate than the iGPU. In short, there is a design limitation somewhere causing the artifacting. Since you were able to get higher screen overclocks in dGPU only mode than you can in optimus mode, my guess is it has something to do with the bandwidth of the video output traces on the motherboard that go from their respective GPUs into the MUX switch. I don't know if both MUX switch inputs have the same bandwidth or not, but I'm guessing they probably don't.
  10. Clamibot
    That's pretty much the reason I've always preferred laptops over desktops. I really like having a computer I can use anywhere I want, whenever I want. That's enough to keep me buying DTRs even though they're more expensive than the equivalent desktop setup. The convenience that the portability of laptops introduces is just too good to pass up. Even though I keep my laptop at my desk for 90% of the time, the 10% of the time I actually take it somewhere with me makes it worth having.
  11. Clamibot
    Ok so some new information: Sliger expects the Trego and Elko cases to release at the end of June now. Apparently they're getting held up because some of their other projects keep getting delayed, which is also delaying the release of these cases. My expectation is for a July or August launch. I'm expecting the release of these cases to be delayed again. It's not really an issue though sinceI don't really plan on actually building the system until Intel releases their Meteor Lake CPUs. That'll yield enough of a performance jump to where I would be comfortable building another system.
  12. Clamibot
    Let us know how the Strix is! I'm actually pretty interested in it after looking at the internals and the specs. Yeah it's BGA, but it still is a DTR and does have a desktop CPU in it, just adapted to a BGA socket. The MUX switch is has makes it attractive as well. I also read that the Strix supports power input through one of the USB-C ports as well. I thought that was pretty interesting. I wonder if it can accept power through its power inlet port and that USB-C port simultaneously. If so, then that gives the laptop a power allowance of 430 watts total, basically making it kind of like a BGA Clevo X170.
  13. Clamibot
    I understand the desire for low power draw on laptops, but on desktops? Come on! Desktops are performance oriented computers. Power draw doesn't matter at full load (note I didn't say it didn't matter at idle), since the computer is built for maximum performance. Power draw only really matters on idle since the computer shouldn't be drawing ridiculous amounts of power while doing nothing. That's just stupid. But when running at full blast, let it draw those ridiculous amounts of power, we want performance! Even for laptops, power draw really only matters on battery power, especially for performance oriented laptops. The goal on battery power is to maximize runtime, so limiting power draw makes sense. However, when plugged into the wall outlet, you have access to more power than the computer could ever draw, so it should be enabled to run wild. Power consumption doesn't matter at full load and when plugged into a wall outlet. There are two sides here. Yes power consumption does matter to a point, but on a performance oriented machine, power draw at full load doesn't matter. It does matter at idle, but not at full load. The computer is built for performance, not power efficiency. If one cares about power efficiency so much, then they should not be buying a performance oriented computer. Seems to me that people are just making poor purchasing decisions and then blaming the product they bought. That or they have unrealistic expectations. You can't circumvent physics. Speaking of which, there may be a solution that allows for thin and light performance laptops with desktop processing power without making them overheat or be loud. Eluktronics's new laptop lineup consists of gaming laptops that can be paired with with external water cooling. If that takes off, we may see larger external water coolers appear for gaming laptops. @Mr. Fox I know you wouldn't want a colostomy bag cooler as you put it 🤣, but I do think external water cooling can be made more streamlined so that it's portable as well.
  14. Clamibot
    I myself am waiting for Sliger to release their new Trego case. It's basically everything I've ever wanted out of a computer case, and I think it's what you want as well. The Trego was originally supposed to release in April, but it got delayed to this month, and now it's been delayed again to June. I don't know when the case will actually release, but I'm waiting patiently. It's a console style case that allows for a 360mm AIO, full length GPU, and an ATX motherboard. This case is really conducive to an easily deployable desktop build, which is essentially what we're going for.
  15. Clamibot
    So basically you spend most of your disposable income on computers then? If that's the case, then you sound just like me heh heh 🤣. Some of my friends think I'm rich because I have a lot of computers in my room. I'm not rich, not even close! It's just that I only have one hobby that isn't completely related to computers, and that hobby pretty much costs nothing, so I end up spending most of my disposable income on computers or parts. My hobbies in order of priority and the enjoyment I derive from them are: 1. Playing video games 2. Developing video games / programming in general 3. Overclocking and tinkering with computers 4. Playing guitar As you can see, my top 3 all have something to do with computers, so that's where my disposable income goes to. I'm very patient when it comes to buying video games, so I typically get them multiple years after release, and during a Steam sale at that, so I don't spend much on games. Playing guitar costs me nothing since I already have one. Developing games costs me nothing. Software development is my source of income as well as doubling as a hobby. Combine everything I mentioned before with frugal living and that affords me a large allowance for computer parts 🤣. I'm super glad I can really enjoy the few hobbies I have. Well that was a giant sidetrack from the conversation. Any word on Clevo releasing a 17 inch Alder Lake or Raptor Lake based DTR soon?
  16. Clamibot
    And funnily enough they're running Windows 11 themselves on "unsupported" hardware. If you go to 22:08 in the video, you'll see that this dev is using an i7 7660U. So this just confirms the high hardware requirements for Windows 11 are artificial. Any computer that can run Windows 10 well can run Windows 11 well. The only thing you'll miss out on is security features if you force Windows 11 to run on unsupported hardware, which I personally don't care about. I only care about performance. I don't think the new security features are really that beneficial to the average consumer. It would benefit corporations more. Also it seems the UI changes just make things look prettier at the cost of introducing extra steps to complete tasks. It is possible to make stuff look prettier while maintining the same level of productivity you had before, or even improving productivity. However, that is not the case here.
  17. Clamibot
    This is a very good approach to take. This is what me and one of my buddies call the N - 1 approach. Staying just a bit behind the latest and greatest typically gives you most of the performance of the newest generation while cosing much less, sometimes half if you snag a really good deal while stock is being cleared. CPUs a generation behind are typically 90-95% as powerful as the current generation unless there is some major progress like a node shrink, in which case you should just wait for the node refinement generation that comes the year after to get a CPU from this year's generation. As for GPUs, every generation is typically significantly more powerful than the last, but you can get really good deals on GPUs as stock is being cleared in preparation for the next generation of parts. I used to always like being as current as possible, but that costs too much. I'd rather get something that can fit my needs while being reasonably priced. I also still want to be able to play around with overclocking in addition to that 😁.
  18. Clamibot
    Seems what you want and what I want are very similar. I'd like a 17-19 inch laptop with just a desktop CPU, Zx90 series chipset so I can overclock the crap out of the CPU, and no dGPU. That would be perfect since as you said, the extra space afforded can give us a large battery, maybe even two or three. I remember some older laptops had dual battery options that would put the effective capacity over 100 Wh. The TSA only limits battery capacities to 100 Wh per battery. The limit for the number of batteries of that capacity that a single individual can take on a plane with them is 3. LOL imagine a DTR with tha abovementioned properties and a triple battery option. That'd leave ultrabooks in the dust on battery life. The thing with laptops is that if you're gaming on one, it's plugged in, so whether the GPU is physically inside the laptop or not does not matter. A slim eGPU + DTR with only a CPU would be the perfect setup. People who want a DTR probably don't care much about weight, so adding an eGPU to the list of things you have to carry is probably not a problem, especially if it's a slim and compact enclosure only a little larger than the actual GPU itself. I think eGPUs are going to be the future of GPU upgradeability in laptops since MXM is practically dead for regular consumers at this point. MXM is now only used in industrial settings as far as I'm aware. The performance penalty of externalizing the GPU has also massively decreased with the newer Thunderbolt 4 implementation.
  19. Clamibot
    The Clevo NH55JNNQ is the only Clevo laptop from this year that has a socketed CPU. Similarly, the X170SM-G and the X170KM-G are Clevo's 2020 and 2021 socketed laptop models for Intel CPUs. They also had two 15 inch DTRs with AMD desktop CPUs inside them, one in 2020 with the Ryzen 9 3950X and one in 2021 with the Ryzen 9 5950X. I forget the model number for those two, but the NH55JNNQ is effectively their successor since it's a 15 inch DTR itself. It's strange that Clevo is moving away from socketed hardware since this has been their specialty for about 30 years now. Despite them moving to mainly BGA systems, I do expect them to still come out with one or two per year. The prosumer market has a need for these types of laptops, so I expect them to stick around. There will just be reduced options compared to before. The issues with the X170KM-G are weird. The X170SM-G works without a hitch in most cases. It also can technically support all the same hardware the KM model does. All the SM needs is a BIOS update for Intel 11th gen CPUs to actually work. I think RTX 30xx GPUs will aready run with an SM motherboad, the only caveat being that you need to perform a driver INF mod to force the drivers to install. I think Clevo should've just updated the BIOS on some SM boards and rebranded them as KM motherboards. That would've done away with all the issues we're seeing with the KM models.
  20. Clamibot
    Holy crap you managed to get your hands on an LTX golden sample? Awesome man! So basically the next 10900K you'll have up for sale will be the second best CPU you've binned for your X170? Also I remember somebody mentioning a while back on NBR that someone had sold a mythical tier 10900K on an overclocking forum, and the thing could do 5.7 GHz all core at voltages that could be air cooled. That was insane and is probably better than Intel's golden sample chips. Imagine having that thing in your laptop! Too bad it want for 3 grand at the time. I wonder how much it'd be sold for now.
  21. Clamibot
    One thing I wish that vendors would do is offer configurations with a high end CPU and a mid range GPU and vice versa. The customer should be able to customize the system for their needs and not have to pay extra for a component they don't need. For example, I typically require a high end CPU, but mid range GPUs work for me now. Today's mid range GPUs fit my needs as an RTX 3060 TI or something with comparable processing power can render any game (including new releases) at 144 fps at medium to high settings at 1080p resolution. These are my target settings and framerate for all games. I no longer need a high end GPU to get the performance I want in games. The CPU on the other hand is a part that I will continue to need to be high end. I am a software engineer, so the extra cores a high end CPU provides me significantly cuts down on compile times. Sometimes I need to use productivity software as well, so those extra cores significantly cut down on the time required for video renders, audio re-encoding, etc. In addition, since my framerate target is 144 fps in all games, I need an extra powerful CPU to keep that framerate in CPU intensive games. Unfortunately laptop vendors do not offer "unbalanced" configurations unless you get a Clevo DTR from a boutique shop, then you can typically spec the laptop however you want it. Either that, or you build a desktop and can customize that computer's hardware to fit your needs.
  22. Clamibot
    Yeah the problem is that when there's a disconnect between what you want and what others want, it's easy to dismiss the viewpoint of other people and consider them stupid. The reality is, different products are for different people. Everyone wants to make the decision that makes the most financial sense for them, and they want something that meets their needs. 90% (maybe even more) of consumers are probably fine with BGA laptops because they just want something that works, and works well for them at that. The prosumer market is small. While most of us here on this forum are probably a part of the prosumer demographic, our demographic is much smaller, hence why there are less options for us. Even though the kinds of systems we would buy are technically superior to offerings from the other 90% of the market, they don't sell as well because people are going to buy what they need. There's no sense in paying for features you won't use, especially if foregoing them saves you money. Talking from purely a price/performance perspective, this laptop is a great deal. I do wish all laptops were upgradeable, but I have to be practical here. Thing is, if BGA machines become a better financial decision for me in the future, I would (very begrudgingly) make the switch. It doesn't make sense to pay for an upgradeable laptop if you can't upgrade the stupid thing since nobody makes parts for it (the alienware Area 51m is a prime example of this). Also, failure rates on hardware components these days are so low that they're essentially a non-issue for the majority of people during the typical lifetime of a laptop like this. I will keep going with LGA laptops as long as I can, but I do not have infinite money at my disposal, and will therefore go with whatever laptop meets my needs and makes the most financial sense to me. I went with my X170 because it's the only laptop I know of from the current few generations that can handle a full load on the CPU and GPU simultaneously for a combined load of 440 watts, and it can handle that indefinitely just like a desktop since it basically is one. I require that. If I didn't, I'd probably have snagged up this Lenovo Legion 7 instead. Middle school me would've been ecstatic for such a deal on such processing power.
  23. Clamibot
    I'm glad to see how far Lenovo has come with their gaming laptops. My first gaming laptop was a Lenovo Y510P, and that thing is a piece of crap. I've kept up with Lenovo's developments in this department, and their newer gaming laptops appear to be far better in terms of build quality and functionality. @jaybee83 Yeah I'm not a fan of BGA either, but it does have its place. Thing is, this deal is very enticing because of how much processing power you get for the price. If all someone is going to use their laptop for is gaming, this laptop fits the bill nicely, even for high framerate gaming. This thing is $900 cheaper than the amount I've spent in total on my fully decked out Clevo X170SM-G. Whether this laptop is good or not really depends on your needs. For someone who needs an upgrade very often (once every 2-3 years) or for a casual user, it's probably a financially smarter decision to just get a new system whenever a deal like this presents itself. GPU upgrades on upgradeable laptops are very expensive, so it doesn't make sense to spend lots of money on an upgrade when an entirely new system can be had for the same amount, or for an extra few hundred dollars. Likewise, another problem with the upgradeability point of the X170 is that it's moot if the buyer never takes advantage of it, so laptops like this Lenovo Legion 7 make more sense for people who'd be better off getting an entirely new system when they need an upgrade since they need an upgrade on every part anyway. There's also the usage case like I mentioned before. This laptop is purely for gaming. It offers a little more GPU processing power than my X170, so it would match or beat my X170 in anything GPU bound, which is the category most games would fall into. However in anything CPU bound, my X170 would destroy this laptop as the CPU in my laptop is much more powerful than the one in this laptop. Then you also have some games (like the Watch Dogs series) that heavily stress both the CPU and GPU at the same time, which is another case my X170 destroys pretty much all other laptops in. So to sum it up, whether this laptop is worth it or not depends on your upgrade habits, intended use case, and the types of games you play. For me personally, this laptop isn't good, but it's probably good for most people looking to buy a gaming laptop, and I know it'd be a REALLY good laptop for some of my friends. I'm a power user and a high framerate gamer, and I require 144 fps in every game, so the Clevo X170SM-G I have is a much better fit for me. For someone like me who typically keeps the same system for a decade like me and only requires one GPU upgrade in that timespan, it's more worth it to get an upgradeable system and upgrade it halfway through its life cycle. For someone who upgrades really often or who upgrades once every 7-10 years, deals like this one are a boon. I'm an LGA enthusiast and will continue shilling for LGA machines, but I'm also going to take a pragmatic approach to things. Everything has it's place. I just wish there were more LGA options in the laptop space.
  24. Clamibot
    I love playing with static electricity. It's so much fun! What's super fun to do during Texas winters is to sit in a chair that is conducive to building up static electricity (like plastic chairs with a metal frame), rub your back in it, and then get up to shock people. My parents and I once had fun playing with static electricity at our nearest Nebraska Furniture Mart, and we had built up so much on the couch we were on that when the next set of people came to sit down on it, they got shocked 🤣. Despite my love for playing with static electricity, I have never once shorted out any of my computers or parts. I'm like a human capacitor, but I make sure to constantly discharge myself in the even I'm going to touch a computer. Funnily enough, I've never experienced a shock strong enough to actually hurt me. Shocks like what Jay showed in that video are merely tingles to me. I have much fun shocking my friends during the winter time.
  25. Clamibot
    In my experience, Phobya Nanogrease Extreme is the best thermal paste. It doesn't degrade and doesn't pump out. Additionally, it's more thermally conductive than almost all other thermal pastes. Pretty much the only better TIM is liquid metal. I hear Thermalright TFX is similar to Nanogrease, but I'm sticking to Nanogrease since I've used it and it has a proven track record (for me personally) of yielding excellent temps. I can't confirm if TFX is like Nanogrease since I've never used it. I've used Arctic MX-4, Thermaly Grizzly Kryonaut, and some Cooler Master paste (I'm not sure if it was MasterGel or something else). Nanogrease significantly outperforms all of them. I'm not sure why Arctic MX-4 is recommended by many others because it sucks. Temps are horrible with it. Kryonaut pumps out if you're doing direct die with it. If not, then it's fine, but there's still the problem of it burning up if subjected to temperatures above 80°C. Cooler Master's pastes seem good for longevity, but as I mentioned before Nanogrease is the best. I've never had to repaste Nanogrease either because it doesn't degrade or pump out. So in conclusion, go with Thermalright TFX or Phobya Nanogrease if you want to avoid liquid metal. @Mr. Fox can confirm the quality of Nanogrease as he's had very good experiences with Nanogrease as well.
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