1610ftw
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Everything posted by 1610ftw
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Obviously a workstation can be different things for different people, it is not all about max performance. Also we have to put the performance aspect into perspective. Out of the box benchmarks do seem to look horrible but with some tweaks performance can increase substantially as has been demonstrated by you and others in this thread. At that level many people will be reasonably happy even if it is not all that it could be. Here is an example of an eGPU solution that you can connect to the bottom SSD-slot, seems to work well up to the RTX 4090 that apparently reaches over 30000 in TimeSpy in such a configuration:
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There are other things one may want the Precision line for: up to 4 SSD slots up to 128 GB of memory lots of i/o and this is exotic but it may be important: easy to access SSD door for potentially adding an eGPU
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Under normal circumstances I would agree but if they want to accommodate the upcoming new hardware they will have to do something about that cooling solution and total system power. I do not think that replacing the current heatsink design with a vapor chamber and allowing for higher power to CPU and GPU is out of the question even when coming from the current chassis!
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I hope you get this sorted out. With no help from HP and a limited enthusiast community it won't be easy but if you only need 16" this has so much potential that it would be a shame not to realize it.
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They are massive - you could probably fit a 21.5" screen in there:
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Nope, that wasn't active but the GPU seems pretty hot at ca. 60°C. Mine has the Nvidia - I think it is the 8800. Time to repaste first but then I have always been annoyed by HP modulating the fans much too aggressively even though I am a fan of their DTR build quality and serviceability and of course of this one.
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I do not think it has ever been different for the 7 series. Before I am not even sure there were any mobile GPUs that would have needed that much power 🙂 I agree that a mobile workstation should always be the most powerful in every generation and when it isn't then something is wrong. Unfortunately something has been wrong for the big workstation manufacturers for a very long time. It is rather embarrassing. The best example is the little MSI GE67HX that probably can be had for around 2000 with the 12800HX, the 3070Ti and a 240Hz OLED! Out of the box it will wipe the floor with every Precision in both GPU and CPU performance. It is small and it does not even have a vapor chamber but it has a big 330W power brick because it needs it 🙂 I do not think that they kept performance down because of that but because they never really thought it was needed that much. I am pretty sure that after this years' fiasco they will do better next year. And that is a pretty cool use case you have for GPUs, Dell will hopefully take notice.
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I think that it is a bit unfair to criticize these specific Dell workstations for limited power on the GPU - it has always been that way and relatively speaking they probably kept about the same relation between their TGP and what Nvidia allows between this and the last generation. Now sustained power to the CPU seems to have even regressed a little in a time when CPUs need more power and not less and that should definitely be addressed especially when considering that on the CPU side their classic workstation competition is doing better. As for the power brick I am sure you could get a bigger one that is also used for the last 17" Alienware and it is not even that costly - keep the 330W version at home / in the office and use the smaller one for travel. Might be futile though when Dell has adjusted the power limits accordingly without a way to increase them. The last two workstations that I could think of with maximum power and bios capabilities were both from MSI - it is ironic that only MSI seems to be able to turn one of their gaming chassis into a workstation but that is probably because they do not feel the need to offer socketed GPUs these days. Dell, Lenovo and HP still do and that requires a different design for workstations and ironically in all cases subpar GPU performance when it used to be the other way round in gaming laptops with a socketed GPU.
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Not sure in which world you live in but in my world there is currently not one decent (let alone great) 17"+ DTR whereas before we used to at least have a handful of them. On the other hand there are hundreds and hundreds of BGA books and some of them even pretend to be part time tablets.
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I have no experience with them but they are thin and light and overpriced so an automatic pass for me.
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At the moment there is only a hint to a Razer 18: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Next-gen-Razer-Blade-18-specs-leak-out-along-with-impressive-Geekbench-scores-for-Intel-s-i9-13900HX-mobile-CPU.667619.0.html Pretty sure there will be others and first models may be released in February. As next generation CPUs will be a lot more efficient for both AMD and Intel you will probably be able to get the same performance as this year with significantly less fan noise. Apparently it does not get very loud and has a lot less output than the X170 but subjectively sounds pretty good at its reduced volume. Please note that it does not have a webcam in case that is important for you.
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The HP will always reach 98 to 100 with that kind of power limit and everything else stock as the fans do not run at max speed all the time when benching. Not good for top scores but may not be an issue otherwise. I would also guess that at 115/150 and 115/115 your scores would get even higher, both single and multiple runs. Also I think that @MyPC8MyBrainmentioned that somebody got a much higher ca 26K score on the 16 G9 so you may want to look for that score and check how he did it. I agree that If you are not sure if you want to keep it better to not use PTM7950. Personally I also did not like that I could not do any undervolting and adjust fans to my liking but I think that is the same with Lenovo.
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If you want good speakers that may be difficult. I am not aware of any particular windows laptops of the last generation that have good sound to be honest but I can tell you that the MSI GT77 is seriously lacking bass so I cannot recommend it for the sound (but many other things). As Viktor has pointed out there are interesting TongFang and Clevo models but not sure about their sound quality. As you seem to be looking for something in the longer run you may wait until next year - as you will be in bed with your laptop the upcoming 18" models may be nice because of the 15% bigger screen size and they will probably be weighing a bit less than the X170 and you will be able to combine them with a relatively lightweight power supply when on the go.
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Here is my stats when I got 19.4K: high performance mode bios setting fans always on power limit set to 115/115W and boost duration to something very long prochot 99°C For a single run and with a cool laptop I set the PL1/PL2 limit to 225W in Throttlestop and my power consumption reached up to 146W in the highest run of 21.2K With your higher binned chip you should be able to crack 22K for a single run and 20K for a 10 minute run. Check that first before doing any repasting. Mine out of the box got about 18K for a single run by the way so you already beat that with yours. As for the eGPU you will probably need to go the m2 PCIe route for truly impressive results, that should give you about 18 to 19K with the 3090. Personally I do not game at all but only getting 14.8K TimeSpy with the 6950XT would annoy me so I can understand your frustration 😄
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Or this one, I always have one of these in my Everki Titan together with an external QHD display:
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And they have made sure that sales will continue like that as even higher end laptops are so small now that they probably lost at least a third of their former case volume if not more. Never say never I guess now that we see a return of 18" screens but it will be worth a lot less if we do not get more substantial laptops to go along with those screens.
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Wattage for all cards would be max wattage, obviously manufacturers could choose to support less. The 4090 die would scale very well straight up to 300W so if a manufacturer finds a way to make it possible they will come out on top.
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Let me tell you that is is very nice to have a screen of that size whereas nobody would want those early mobile phone screens back! A small downside is that the whole thing weighs over 7 kg so about 2 1/2 times the weight of your upcoming HP laptop 😄
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No idea who will be paying that but it sure as hell won't be me😄
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Nvidia seems to have new criteria for their top laptop GPUs - they apparently aspire to be roughly half as fast as their desktop counterparts these days 😄 It also looks like maybe they saw the utter ridiculousness of calling a card with a sub 20K TimeSpy "4090" so they went for the slightly less stupid 4080Ti label. 3 cards at the top with the top card possibly having another fantasy name now is quite funny. As I am not interested in GPU performance that much it is fine with me but I would be very offended if I was buying one of those laptops with cards that are 4080Ti or 4090 in name only. Oh well in the future it will probably be best to just get a big CPU that is still reasonably similar to its desktoip counterpart and then add an external GPU for more serious gaming - for the internal displays at QHD these cards should be good enough most of the time.
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In fact this generation it is 2 x 17.3" chassis from MSI and Dell and 3 x 16" chassis from Dell, HP and Lenovo - nothing from Clevo or Asus. At the same time there are easily more than hundred motherboards that allow for 128GB on the 1700 socket alone.
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I do not think that the provision of RAM slots would have to drive prices that high but the practice to only offer 4 RAM slots in the absolute top models drives prices up a lot even without considering the cost of the RAM itself. Not to mention that indeed Dell CAMM prices are highway robbery if you happen to need 128GB. A good example is the MSI GT77: It is the only 128GB capable laptop of this generation that has a 17" screen and regular memory. But it also has a 4k screen which adds cost and it also cannot be bought with anything less than a 3070 Ti which also adds cost. A version with a QHD screen and a 3060 could probably cost about 600 to 900 less but we will never know as MSI does not offer it and if they did they surely would not offer it with the 12900HX CPU. I think we may have more choices again with the next generation as this time the HX Intel chips will be available earlier and I would assume that more manufacturers will jump on the 18" bandwagon. Let's hope that some manufacturers will test the waters and offer laptops that are a bit bigger than they would have to be - I have a bit of hope for that but not much.
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I think that laptops just aren't up to it any more as power consumption has gone waaaay up over the last years. Even if you'd take a volume that is on the level of the big old Alienware 18" chassis it would be much better but not enough. We could probably come up with a solution to cool a 300W CPU with such a chassis but it would be very difficult to cool a monster Geforce 4090 GPU with it, let alone a 13900K AND the 4090! That being said having a total power envelope of 600 watt would be possible with a bigger unified vapor chamber and some simple liquid cooling as developed by Tongfang / Uniwill. Will we ever see it? Probably not except maybe as an aftermarket solution. Laptop always was meant for portable but people have apparently gotten much weaker so they have to shrink all the time. Personally I find it sickening but very few seem to complain. I prefer to be able to take my office with me so I will stay with a laptop even though it means performance will be less. I do not game so that is a big bonus as I do not need a top GPU in my laptops. That is a great hwbot score you got there - much better than the ca. 36K at 100°C that we might get from the next generation of BGA books 😄
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The idea would not be to run a laptop at 100 degrees and max but to have some headroom to run it at 80 or below and still have good performance. Basic desktops is too harsh but certainly it is very easy to surpass the best laptop with a moderately ambitious desktop. Room temp was 22 to 24 degrees according to my thermometer but it looks like P-cores always reported lower minimum temperature than E-cores that seem to have been pretty close to room temp: I will leave it at that as every desktop 12900K setup is better than that anyway and the gap will most cetainly get wider with the 13900K compared to the 13900HX. 25% to 50% less performance seems about right when comparing single CPU and GPU to the same model in a desktop, especially with the upcoming generation. Indeed very few laptops these days that allow for 128GB RAM which drives prices up even more.
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clevo p870tm/tm1-g Official Clevo P870TM-G Thread
1610ftw replied to ViktorV's topic in Sager & Clevo
My bad, just now saw the two additional slots. But how would you fix the SSDs that go over the other two? In any case I would think that 2 slots would be enough for most people but I can only see "standard" solutions with one m2 slot - are you aware of a less costly solution that would hold two drives?
