Mr. Fox

3 hours ago, ryan said:

why even offer a igpu and baby cores. like i get your point, they think the masses are dumb and they are but the people buying each gen the enthusiasts? why make sense when no(n)cense is cheaper. this guys is not a potawtoe its a pohtahtoe, much better. face palm

Some of them are posers (gamers) that pretend to be enthusiasts but don't have a clue. They think that buying the most expensive option makes them  one. They are only enthusiasts at wasting money on things they don't know how to use. Like a person that buys a handgun for self-defense. He puts it in the nightstand next to his bed, but doesn't know how to load the clip with bullets and does not even realize it did not come with bullets.

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

 

I stopped taking "professional" reviews as gospel decades ago when they absolutely trashed the original Highlander movie. I realized you need to read as many reviews as possible. You also need to find reviewers that align with your likes/dislikes to get a better idea of if you will like that product.

 

Even then, you may still end up disagreeing.

 

Everything is individualized.

Everything is subjective.

 

Agree. And, I am finding it harder than ever to identify those that do. Now more than ever, and similar to mainstream "news" media, it is an echo chamber with all of them reading from the same propaganda script. Accuracy, objectivity, facts and truth simply don't matter. Just stick to the script, focus on the buzz words, practice the chant and advance the narrative.

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

The new Starwars game is absolutely awesome. I am not sure what these reviews may be going on about. But I will be the first to say all of the Starwars Jedi Survivor games before this were not entertaining to me. But this new game is awesome. I love the direction they are going. Real open world vibes, sneaking around enemies, multiple ways to proceed through a mission, there is a bartering system as well. Ubisoft is on the right path here, and they can make this series the greatest Starwars game ever. 

The last Starwars games were just a tunnel, and you proceeded down the path killing the same enemies, if you died or re-spawned, all over those enemies re-spawn again. It was just a very very limited feeling game. 

I am playing this one in my living room with a controller, and it's fantastic. 

Yeah, tech reviewer opinions should be taken with a grain of salt overall. 

And, game reviews are often the same for me as movie reviews. If the major reviewers give bad reviews to a movie then there is about a 99% chance that I will love it enough to want to buy it for my home library. And, if it is one that the reviewers rave about, then there is better than 75% chance that I will consider it to be a sucky flop that I don't even waste my time watching to the end. Back in the day when I spent a lot of time in movie theaters, before YouTube movie trailers were common, I walked out of many movies that I felt were a waste of my time. If there was another movie showing sometimes I would leave the one I paid for and sneak into to a different viewing room to watch something else instead.

Funny how often reviewer opinions are diametrically opposed to my opinions. Now I generally don't even look at movie reviews because they are time wasters. I watch trailers on YouTube and base my decision to watch the movies based on their trailers.

As they say, "One man's trash is another man's treasure."

Released yesterday...

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

More of the same....

 

Tech (performance) enthusiast have no value for todays/tomorrows tech industry. The tech enthusiasts being pushed further out into the cold. We are a dying breed bro Fox. All left is for gamer-kids and the average computer Joe. We saw it with DTR's, now we see it for everything related to tech. 

 

End of the Road: An AnandTech Farewell

We live is a truly disgusting era. We are surrounded by incompetence, mediocrity and totally outnumbered by imbeciles. 

I finally replaced that automotive 800 CFM fan with nine Arctic P12 Max fans.  The automotive fan worked really well, but at low speed it had an annoying chatter to it that I never got used to.

I have to say these P12 Max fans are very impressive. I think they might be my favorite 120MM fan now. Their static pressure is absolutely insane and I have never felt the volume of air getting pushed through a radiator the way these beastly fans do it. Even on maximum speed they are surprisingly less obnoxious than I thought they would be. When researching static pressure + CFM I could not find a fan rated for higher static pressure. They are almost double the static pressure of fans that the manufacturers brag about being high static pressure, and I can easily tell by the massive volume of air getting rammed through the Nova 1080 radiator.

I ordered them on Amazon and had to wait several weeks for delivery. Seems Arctic's stock was depleted and they were on backorder everywhere. The order was placed on July 29.

I am controlling the fans with one of these and it also works very well.

Going forward I think these will be my fan of choice.

11 hours ago, tps3443 said:

It was a free $70 dollar game. I can’t complain no matter how bad it is lol. Something to max the graphics on, something to poke around while I pout over Wukong Black Myth being to hard for me lol. I know one game that I just could not dig at all, and that was “Skull N Bones” another Ubisoft title. I didn’t see the appeal at all. So rushed. The character animations do like 3 things and they just repeat those over and over. It makes the game feel really cheap and rushed. 
 

32 more minutes and StarWars Outlaws will be playable!

I'd have to log in to my Ubisoft library to try to even identify one title that I sort of liked. I can't think of one off the top of my head. I generally do not care for anything they release. Most of what is in that library (which is tiny compared to the others) are titles I got for free, played once for 30 minutes, then uninstalled and flagged as hidden so it would not waste any space in the list. They cater to people whose tastes in gaming genres are completely foreign to me.

Let's go Brandon!

57 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

PS: Starwars Outlaws playable tonight at 12am on Ubisoft Connect. 😎 Intel gave me the game for free. Thanks Intel! 

Have fun... this is, of course, one man's opinion. YMMV.

I don't worry too much about trusting sources. A lot of the "reliable" and "trustworthy" sources have let us down recently. I do not believe anyone or anything is safe. Micro$lop taking care of #1 first and not caring what their customers users think and stealing data (pretending an EULA makes it OK) is no less dangerous than some guy modding a Windows ISO. Our information being sold on the Dark Web was stolen from "trustworthy" sources. I might even be more inclined to trust "some dude" rather than a big data aggregator.

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Remember Windows 11, version 24H2 (OS Build 26100.1591) is targeting Copilot+ PCs Joke's devices. What did you expect? Isn't that build optimized for (Windows on) ARM? Of course the idiots break the OS once again to try make their modern Joke-plates perform better.

 

 

 

We still need more options for the rep button, such as 100, angry emoji and vomiting emoji. I would use the vomiting emoji for Windows 11 subject matter. Copilot marks the start of a new era of Windoze mega-suckiness. The world is full of silly, stupid, ignorant and just plain old fashioned nutjobs and lunatics that are a danger to themselves and everyone else, and those dunderheads can't wait to have AI ruin things. Winduhz 11 was already ruined, so I digress. 

The should have named it "Co-Pirate" instead. Maybe that's how they pronounce it in China.

5 hours ago, Clamibot said:

I don't know how people are getting better performance in Windows 11 vs Windows 10.

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yeah, that has me stumped as well. Especially when it comes to CPU performance. It's so bloated and burdened with worthless crap, processes and services that serve no legitimate purpose as far as I'm concerned.

Dumbed-down caterers to the dumbest of the lowest common denominators. A one-size fits all hat that only actually fits people with a shrunken head. The don't actually care about Windoze anymore, or the people that use it. They just want to sell you their other crap that only runs on Winduhz.

Jay did a nice job on this video and it should be helpful to noobs. His description of the qualities and behaviors of the thermal pastes he compared matches my experiences with each of them.

15 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

I don't know how people are getting better performance in Windows 11 vs Windows 10.

Yeah, that has me stumped as well. Especially when it comes to CPU performance. It's so bloated and burdened with worthless crap, processes and services that serve no legitimate purpose as far as I'm concerned.

2 hours ago, chew said:

Maybe i suck but not even happening at not blow em up volts on 9950 x even at -35.

No you do not. Quite the opposite. Sounds like 9950X might though.

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I have given up on it. I used to not update and stick to one old build. But it's always worse performance for me. I am going to test 24H2. I am going to assume it will probably provide a faster 14900KS. There is always a trade-off it seems. 

I am still working on transitioning to Linux. I do not find the direction Micro$lop is headed to be acceptable to me and I am approaching the point where I would rather just do without some things than compromise and embrace their feces. The reason each release of Winduhz sucks worse than the one before is because the zombie sheeple put up with it and it is only going to get worse. I think ripping the band-aid off and moving on is a better idea. We often misuse the word "hate" as an adjective to express disagreement or disapproval for something, but I don't think it is an embellishment or improper use of the term to describe my opinion of Micro$lop at this point. I find it hard to hold anything other than contempt for them and I no longer care whether they remain solvent and successful because I don't need them and view them as being expendable. I use it for work because I have to, but Windoze isn't important to me anymore.

34 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Here's the test with Windows 11 23H2 (new released Windows update KB5041587 fix for Ryzen gaming performance). Not as good for the Ryzen 9 9950X.

 

I really hope for the Red fanboys that Microsoft don't have to withdraw some of the performance gain later, because Ryzen chips is at risk become more vulnerable to security issues from this new optimization patch. Nothing will last forever🙂

Zen 5 tested with Windows Update KB5041587

It is unfortunate and inappropriate that hardware performance would be contingent or reliant upon the OS. Just the thought of that sucks and makes me angry. Windows needs to stick to being an interface with the hardware and a platform for running other software, and nothing more than that.

9 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I saw the hotspot temp creeping up on one of my 4090 GPUs and decided to do something about it.

 

@tps3443 you had asked about PTM7950 for a desktop CPU and it's not great. But it does work very well for GPUs.

 

See my "before" GPU temps below.

 

 

I used PTM7950 (pad) on the 4090 core. The thermal paste (Alphacool Apex) that was on it was very dried out and that explains the core temps being a little bit elevated. But, the hotspot was what concerned me most. When I took it apart I saw all of the thermal pads were nearly cut in half. The block came with 1.0mm pads. I replaced them with 0.5mm pads to improve die contact pressue and everything across the board improved. Core, hotspot and memory junction temperatures.

 

I found an easy way to remove the film on the PTM7950, which is always a bit tedious and often rips the pad. Put it in the freezer, then cut it and peel off one side. Stick it to the GPU core, then put the GPU in the freezer for about 10 minutes. Then the top film peels off easily without sticking or ripping the paper thin PTM7950 pad. I stick Scotch tape to the film and find that it peels the film off effortlessly with no damage to the PTM7950 pad. The melting point is so low and the pad so thin that you need it very cold and hard to stop the film from sticking to it and tearing up the pad.

 

I used these 12.8 W/mK thermal pads. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09DC772PR 

 

Now look at the GPU temps. Huge improvement. Hotspot alone is 15°C cooler now, with a 10°C delta rather than a 17°C delta compared with the core temperature.

 

 

Now that my office has heated up to 82°F (28°C) I thought I would check this again. Looks like it's still fine. I am going to call this fixed. No more hotspot concern. Good to go.

50 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Those are fantastic results AND you gained a bin on your 4090 as a result even at better temps! Where did you source your PTM7950? A lot of counterfeit sources on the market at the moment unfortunately.

Thank you. Yes, I was pleased with the result. I have purchased it twice from this Amazon seller. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0D8W47P21

I can't prove whether it is genuine or not, but it works like it is genuine. I used it on the air cooler installed on the X79 system I gave to my son-in-law because of its long-term durability and when I pulled it back from 4.7GHz all core to 4.5GHz all core the temps were better than I expected them to be. Still not as good as 4.7GHz all core with the EK CR360 Nucleus Dark AIO, but still reasonable. About 85°C max core temp running Cinebench R23 at 4.5GHz all core with the air cooler.

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Thats amazing. I’m going to repaste my 4090 now for sure. 🙂 Maybe it’ll help it with overclocks a bit. I notice sometimes OC may be bad when contact isn’t always perfect.

The thermal testing in the screenshots above was stock, but because the temps were lower the core boost clock changed from 2685 to 2700 all by itself, as you can see in the screenshots.

I saw the hotspot temp creeping up on one of my 4090 GPUs and decided to do something about it.

@tps3443 you had asked about PTM7950 for a desktop CPU and it's not great. But it does work very well for GPUs.

See my "before" GPU temps below.

I used PTM7950 (pad) on the 4090 core. The thermal paste (Alphacool Apex) that was on it was very dried out and that explains the core temps being a little bit elevated. But, the hotspot was what concerned me most. When I took it apart I saw all of the thermal pads were nearly cut in half. The block came with 1.0mm pads. I replaced them with 0.5mm pads to improve die contact pressue and everything across the board improved. Core, hotspot and memory junction temperatures.

I found an easy way to remove the film on the PTM7950, which is always a bit tedious and often rips the pad. Put it in the freezer, then cut it and peel off one side. Stick it to the GPU core, then put the GPU in the freezer for about 10 minutes. Then the top film peels off easily without sticking or ripping the paper thin PTM7950 pad. I stick Scotch tape to the film and find that it peels the film off effortlessly with no damage to the PTM7950 pad. The melting point is so low and the pad so thin that you need it very cold and hard to stop the film from sticking to it and tearing up the pad.

I used these 12.8 W/mK thermal pads. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09DC772PR 

Now look at the GPU temps. Huge improvement. Hotspot alone is 15°C cooler now, with a 10°C delta rather than a 17°C delta compared with the core temperature.

19 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

99% of the time a mouse and keyboard is great, and I never advocate for a controller my self. But in racing games or sim racing like BeamNG/Forza we need fine throttle and clutch control. Unfortunately, our W button on the keyboard only has one mode for hitting the throttle at 0% gas or 100% gas (That’s how mine is anyways) When you want to rock crawl slowly up a hill without wheel spin on your big 44” tires that are almost completely flat with a V8 twin turbo truck in BeamNG, or drifting, or just general racing, it’s nice having variable throttle/clutch/steering inputs on an Xbox controller. But with this game the controller is only helpful for fighting. It’s a casual laid back experience for the most part, except for fighting a boss, then its edge of seat die over and over and over again until I finally beat the boss. While I understand how lethal mouse and keyboard can be, some games do not require aiming, if you just swing in the direction near an enemy, you’re in that hit box. Any game that requires aiming, you really need a mouse. If you played this, you’d know what I meant. It’s just easier.

 

PS: I wish they made a keyboard with variable throttle. That would be cool! I play BeamNG all the time, and it is the best car game ever. It never gets old building a vehicle how you want, and then just doing whatever with it. 

Yeah, racing games makes good sense. I hardly ever play them so racing games did not come to mind. Years ago, I enjoyed playing a number of different racing games and found a joystick worked pretty well. I used the trigger for the throttle. Over the years my interest in gaming has become more narrow and restrictive. I think I have at least one, maybe two, undiagnosed personality disorders which have advanced with age that futher lend to a narrowed scope of interest.

55 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

I can absolutely guarantee you would not like an X3D chip as you're really not into gaming hardcore and want a CPU to baseline perform at its best unhindered or asymmetrical in operations (IE Intel 12th+, AMD X3D or even to an extent dual CCD design).

 

If I wasn't into gaming, I would have also just picked up a 7950X, 9950X or 1X900K Intel chip and called it a wrap.

 

His argument was around gaming, the reasons the 7800X3D was only a good choice for gaming in the face of AMD's other offerings and also reiterating how his tuned 9950X (which he is returning) is close to the 7800X3D and if given a choice, he would select the 9950X over the 7800X3D. My counter is you wait for the 9950X3D and get the best of both worlds in that scenario like I do now.

 

In the same vein, I guess the same argument could be made about Intel too in regards to how close it can get when properly tuned. After tuning up that 13900KS vs the 7950X3D, I was absolutely fine with either platform for gaming. They were really close at the time. X3D still had a few bumps in the road then and my 13900KS was tested at 5.6 all core I think and no APO. This next round of testing is 14900KS at 5.9 all core and APO vs. binned CCD of the 7950X3D in WoW.

 

I suspect Intel is actually going to win, but we will see.

 

 

There are many architectural uplifts in AMDs new design but they just don't reflect as much now in gaming. As always, maturity/driver updates/agesa updates (the bane of AMD ownership) will only continue to improve and enhance their CPU performance.

 

Unless Intel brings the high heat (which they might), it will either be the 9950X3D or I will end up skipping both till next gen.

 

 

What has been documented are their superior random I/O and noted gains in just about every D2D scenario even if small so the worst case scenario is an improved overall user experience. Best case is maybe a dent in some of that chunk but that's asking a lot when they can't even touch DDR4 speeds let along GDDR6X.

 

I think the end game goal of Microsoft's Direct Storage is along those lines to improve not only load times but asset transfers both static and dynamic but SSDs need to get it together. 🙂

I think your prediction that I would not like X3D is spot on. I am pretty predictable.

I wish both of them would just release monolithic (or matched chiplet quality) high core count CPUs with all cores of the same product and silicon quality and not a hodge-podge cocktail like we have now. That is just stupid on the part of both companies.

Sorry for the duplicate post earlier. Not sure how that occurred as it was separated by a post from another person. Weird. I hid the first one so it would not look goofy.

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

The Wukong black myth is really good. 2nd time playing. This game is very rewarding so

far. And the animations are amazing! Also, I highly recommend playing with a Xbox or PS5 controller. As for having top end hardware or not, if you are getting even 28fps, it feels like 60fps with a controller. I think that’s how the majority of people play this title, and it is highly liked. Technically I’m supposed to be working right now 😈 but yeah I’m over here play’n lol. 

I am glad you are enjoying it and that it is getting positive reviews. It certainly has attractive scenery and foliage in teh benchmark. I can say with about 99% certainty that I would not it like based on genre and gameplay style. It's far too expensive for me to consider buying it to find out. Maybe when it is old enough that the price drops to around $15 or less I might roll the dice just to see if I would not hate it as much as I believe I would. Every once in a great while that happens with a game and I have no problem admitting if I was wrong. 

I've never understood the desire for using a gamepad controller on a PC. If feels so clumsy and sloppy to me. That said, I know it is all relative and primarily about what a person starts with and gets used to that determines what they are most comfortable with. Other than maybe arcade fighting games like Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, I universally prefer a keyboard and mouse. I am a lot more lethal with a keyboard and mouse than I am with a controller, but I have never had any desire to play games on a console. I can see where people that started on a console and played that way for years before moving to PC might feel the exact opposite.

Yesterday I gave the X79 system (with the Titan, not the RTX 2080 Ti in it) to my son-in-law as a gift. He was elated. As I was reconfiguring it with an air cooler and dropping it down from 47x all core to 45x, reinstalling Windows, etc. I was still surprised by how well such an old build performs by today's standards. I installed Crysis, The Witcher (a game I never liked), Hitman: Absolution, Wolfenstein: The New Order and Wolfenstein: The Old Blood, and all of them play 100% awesome with medium or high settings and looked great. 

My two teenage grand daughters immediately monopolized it. They had never heard of Wolfenstein before, but the oldest was instantly addicted.

37 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

He then says if you have a choice between the 9950x and the 7800x3d and you're an enthusiast, you pick the 9950x. No, you wait and pick the 9950x3d.

I am pretty sure I would despise an X3D chip for the same reasons he does. You basically get a gimped CPU that is good for gaming and not much else, and is further impaired in terms of its capacity for overclocking. I (personally) would never buy a CPU that was targeted for gaming above all else. If you replaced "enthusiast" with "gamer" then you'd have a solid statement. If the 9950X3D has two excellent matched CCDs and overclocks both CCDs as well or better than a 9950X on its better CCD, and you could toggle the disabling of the non-cached CCD for anything at will, then you would have a winner for both types of users that choose AMD and it would be worth the $650 price tag.

I'm pretty much not going to like/want/buy anything that is designed around gaming as the prime objective. I don't like E-cores either, for the same reason I don't like the mismatched CCD thing. I think both are crap ideas.

We don't know if his assumption is accurate about AMD pawning off crappy silicon for CCD2 to save a few bucks on each CPU, but I can't think of a better way to explain it. It makes little sense that they would sell a flagship product with a weak CCD with a lower boost clock as standard operating procedure. I hated that about the 5950X. You not only had a weaker CCD by design, but also preferred cores on each and it was a real abortion for overclocking, and the firmware probably made it worse than it needed to be. I agree that, conceptually and in practical application, it is equivalent in stupidity as having E-cores on Intel. Both companies got stupid on us in similar ways. I won't excuse either of them for it. That's why we no longer have a best option for everything; only an option of deciding what we think is the lesser of two evils that is good at some things.

14 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

What the heck is going on? Is Jufus full of crap or is literally everyone that says it is crap is a moron that has no clue at all about what they are doing? He was right about Intel when most of them were wrong, so I'm inclined to think he might be right here even though I have no personal information to base it on. After pointing out what the other reviewers got wrong and moves to the cons it gets really interesting and it is like he is reading my mind about what makes it suck and why he is going to RMA it.

 

 

I am not sure that Jay or the two Steves actually know what they are doing. If they are trying to test things on BIOS defaults like an average gamerboy, that will always suck no matter what brand of CPU. It seems clear the new gen Ryzen is a different product than the one it is replacing. It's too bad they are still pairing an inferior CCD with a better one instead of passing the inferior silicon down to one of cheaper CPUs. That drove me nuts with the 5950X and I felt the same way about it that Jufus the Dufus expressed.

Maybe Brothers @Raiderman or @chew will get one and show us what a 9950X really looks like since they both know how to properly tune a non-X3D Ryzen CPU.

5 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

All of the people who swear by the Intel Optanes say it alleviates these issue when games do this. In game loading objects and dropping GPU usage. So I need to just get one already. 

At best you will validate it. At worst you will invalidate it. Either way you will have an insanely fast obsolete SSD that costs more that it is worth. 🤣