Mr. Fox

FYI. I saw JayzTwoCents talking about these not long ago and when I investigated the published static pressure and CFM, the CFM was the same but the static pressure superior to the Byski fans the person I bought the EK direct die AIO from had used to replace the better EK fans. (Not sure why he did that.)  The Byski fans were actually decent, but have the modern stupid design where the fan chassis is not square. They have the silly tabbed corners providing a space for air to leak out in four places on each fan. That is OK for a case fan, but sucks for use on a radiator. Even if the static pressure was better, the design of the Bykski fan would defeat any high static pressure abilities. (It is a very stupid popular trend in computer fans to be made this way, but newer is always better newer.)

I got them yesterday. They are affordable and I think build quality is good. My normalized coolant temperature is improved because more air is getting pushed through the radiator. I like the uni-fan design with the single power/RGB connection on the end. Probably not as polished as Lian Li, but the 3-fan kit is a WHOLE LOT more affordable than Lian Li and the CFM/static pressure equal or better. Super easy to install and look good. They have the infinity mirror on the two sides and on the fan spindle (which nobody will see with the fans facing down). They snap together securely. I like that they DO NOT use a proprietary controller and bloatware like some of the scummier designs from brand-name products that do.

I moved the Byski fans to the front panel. The Byski fans look better and are more powerful than the Thermalright TL-C12C-S they replaced.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C5PY91W9?th=1

11 hours ago, tps3443 said:

People are really dumb @Mr. Fox I remember when the 11900K came out, still the largest IPC increase we ever saw with Intel to this day probably, and everyone trashed on the chip. Even though it delivered like 95% performance of 10/20 cores from the 10900K, while only using 8/16 cores in the 11900K. In games the 11900K was a real performer. These chips were very cool! I understand not everyone needed to upgrade, 10900K was already great. Since when is upgrading actually practical anyways though. If we own current gen, and next gen comes out, none of us “Need” to do it, it’s always a want. But it was just hated on so much. I mean, think about how stupid the 14900K is lol. Or even the 14900KS. The 13900K already does what either can do, and it was released almost 2 years ago. And here we all are just eating them up like sweet cakes. 

The thing is, the 11th Gen Intel was 20% faster IPC over 10th gen. It was almost like, since the 11th gen did not deliver some devastatingly powerful multithreaded blow to the 10900K, and since it had less threads, the chip was immediately no good and was marked DOA, and since everyone in the YouTube channel reviews said it was "NO GOOD" it was for sure "NO GOOD" The only thing good about it were the actual product reviews on Newegg and Amazon. So, this does lead to a "What the hell is actually is good scenario? and who is actually being honest here?" Everyone today only talks about IPC gains, and FPS gains, and gaming performance gains. But the Intel 11th Gen died and went down for being a waste of sand LITERALLY lol. How silly right? Another thing everyone talks about with Gaming rigs is the 7800X3D or Intel 14900KS.  All of the AMD Fans will say the 7800X3D is the superior gaming chip. However, we all know the 14900KS will mop the floor with it in any real workloads lol. But no one seems to mention this.. 7800X3D gets a pass in that area. The 14900KS can more than double the 7800X3D's Cinebench score, but since the 14900KS uses double the power as well, it's just not acceptable whatsoever haha. I realize this makes no sense lol. 

With all of that ^ being said, I have learned that: One weakness is acceptable one minute, and another positive is looked right over the next minute, or vice versa. These reviewers determine if something is worthy regardless of what it may actually be. Whatever one person says, the other probably goes along with.  

I can see Intel 15th gen already. It has faster IPC, less threads than 14th gen, slightly slower or similar multithreaded performance to that of a 14900KS, (WAIT! This sounds familiar), but it will most likely be a "TOTAL WIN" It all depends on what reviewers say. They determine its fate lol. 

The only way to know if something is actually any good is to go and buy it, then we see if it’s good for our self lol. If it’s bad we just return it. We always do what we want anyways. 

Good post. I agree with you.  I stopped watching mainstream news about 8 or 10 years ago. ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, (and more recently even Fox News,) etc. is all agenda-driven disinformation for zombie sheeple. The media cabal's mentally deficient brain trust decides on what the message of the day will be for brainwashing the stupid people of the world. They don't even try to conceal it by using different wording and every channel is an echo camber spewing exactly the same lies, often verbatim, from a shared script. And, the idiots of the world accept it all on face value as being factual information based on the unmerited biases the media has created.

It is starting to feel that way to some degree with many of the "reviewers" on YouTube. These "influencers" only influence people that can't or don't think for themselves., but rely on the talking heads to tell them what to think.

What the heck is going on? Is Jufus full of crap or is literally everyone that says it is crap is a moron that has no clue at all about what they are doing? He was right about Intel when most of them were wrong, so I'm inclined to think he might be right here even though I have no personal information to base it on. After pointing out what the other reviewers got wrong and moves to the cons it gets really interesting and it is like he is reading my mind about what makes it suck and why he is going to RMA it.

47 minutes ago, ryan said:

USA government? Don't you mean all developed and undeveloped countries..Sudan vs canada vs Latvia...government corruption spread around the world fast and has its Web spun.

Yup, it applies to most of them. It's only relatively recent that the woke lefty fascist brain cancer has gained traction in the US. It started with B. Hussein Obama and he's still pulling strings in the shadows. It is hard to believe anyone can legitimately be that stupid, yet it is reality. But, NVIDIA needs to be kept on a tight leash and not allowed to play games with the rule. They should come down on them extremely hard, like a sledgehammer, if they're bending the rules to engage with China in any shape, form or fashion. China needs to be totally cut off from everything.

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

The U:S ban is an Joke and Jensen know it. 

Our government is a joke, indeed. We will have an opportunity to correct again that later this year and I am hopefully enough people (legal voters) have had a gut full of the woke idiot nonsense, open borders and financial ruin the lefties have set in motion. A ban means nothing if it doesn't have sharp teeth and steep fines associated with non-compliiance and skirting the ban with loopholes. NVIDIA needs to fall in line or have their assets frozen and business license(s) revoked. We should be playing hardball with China and executing clandestine strategies against our enemies with extreme prejudice and an intent to do severe harm to them rather than misusing the FBI and CIA to try to eliminate political opponents at home because the current ruling fascist party can't win an election the right way.

2 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Yes, that T7000 looks very similar to the silicone glue I used just to hold things together a little.

 

I did the baking lol - albeit internally only, as I wasn't sure if I want to do LM on the IHS or not. I'm not too worried given how phenomenal the temps are now.

The next time you take it apart go ahead and bake the top. Once the copper is saturated you can polish it to a mirrorlike finish and it will work better even with ordinary thermal paste versus the bare copper. It seems to improve the thermal conductivity with the added density of having the pores saturated with liquid metal.

1 minute ago, Etern4l said:

 

OK, so this was not a scientific study, but best effort, so I have tried probably 10 different pastes before TFX, SYY, CryoFuze etc. They all performed quite similarly, the difference is that the performance would degrade fairly quickly vs 7958 held  up for months. Now, as far 

1. Liquid metal on the die

2. Lapped  the bottom of the RockIt IHS to hopefully increase pressure

3. Used a tiny amount of this Weld rubber gasket glue instead of the Super glue - rationale, more compressible

 

In my initial attempt I did actually try to assess if LM on the IHS is of benefit, and used SYY - this also exhibited great temps. I then applied LM on the IHS and was initially gutted since the temps were pretty bad, but then figured out there wasn't enough LM and there was not enough contact between the surfaces (evidenced by one-sided patch after removing the coldplate).

 

All in all, my best effort before - the machine would run in the 90s undervolted and underclocked. 

Now, it's in the 90s stock and in the 70s undervolted and underclocked. Probably around 15C difference. Again, the caveat here is that some of that performance delta could be due to the IHS lapping and different glue.

I have had mixed results with the Rockit IHS. Sometimes better, but often worse than stock IHS. You really do not need to glue the IHS. It is not necessary whether using the stock ILM or aftermarket frame. Using the stock ILM you just need to press down on it with your thumb to keep it from sliding when latching the ILM. If you want to tack it in place, a tiny dot of T7000 under each "wing" on the IHS will suffice. More than strong enough. It is used to attach things like the back panel on a cell phone not intended for user access. But, it is not permanent.

Always important to sand down the bottom of the IHS so that is moves freely sitting on the die when not glued in place. If the perimeter touches the CPU or remnants of original IHS adhesive the die contact will be impaired.

If you bake the Rockit copper IHS in an oven with liquid metal applied it will accelerate the absorbing process and saturate the copper so it no longer has the ability to absorb it. It takes a couple of baking intervals, cleaning off the slag, applying fresh liquid metal and baking again.

7 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Hey @Etern4l!

 

Did your 13900k used to run fine at auto but now won't pass those same tests? Did you change BIOSes? Does it fail on 0x129 using the Intel Enforced Limits? Usually for a degraded CPU downclocking and a positive offset are required. The fact it responds well to an undervolt is encouraging it may be ok or the degradation is minimal.

 

Delidding a CPU and not using LM really defeats the purpose of replacing the stock sTIM especially with the stock lid as there is usually no absorption/hardening (3rd party copper top can be a different story).

 

 

Spot on. 

If a person is going to use an IHS, the best option is to have one made of pure solid silver, or at least a quality nickel plating.

35 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Meanwhile, some good news:

Linux Market Share Hits Record High 

That is wonderful news, and it only makes sense. I mean, anything put out by crApple is just a dumbed down de-evolved proprietary and defective version of Linux for Dummies and an unacceptable alternative to Windows, and anything put out by Micro$lop is just a screwed up mess loaded with bloat and data collection filth. And, like crApple's trash, a product dumbed down for dumb-dumbs.

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Finally, the juicy fruits poppin up from Microsoft. As they now have started up again new features for older Win 10. Isn't that a good thing bro @Mr. Fox?🤢 

Why not just let us have the old OS without new trashy Win 11 features?

Microsoft is bringing annoying Windows 11 Start menu ads to Windows 10

neowin.com · 9 minutes ago 0

If you are sticking to Windows 10 because it has fewer annoyances than Windows 11, especially in the Start menu, we have bad news for you....

They are mentally and morally incapable of doing the right thing and lack the capacity to make good decisions.

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Finally, the juicy fruits poppin up from Microsoft. As they now have started up again new features for older Win 10. Isn't that a good thing bro @Mr. Fox?🤢 

Why not just let us have the old OS without new trashy Win 11 features?

Microsoft is bringing annoying Windows 11 Start menu ads to Windows 10

neowin.com · 9 minutes ago 0

If you are sticking to Windows 10 because it has fewer annoyances than Windows 11, especially in the Start menu, we have bad news for you....

They are mentally and morally incapable of doing the right thing and lack the capacity to make good decisions.

17 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

I'm not so sure bro @Mr. Fox. Because everything they touch will turn into problems. 

 

Just lovely. More bugs have popped up with this new Win11 update. This is an reminder of never pach on the patch day and rather wait at least 2-4 weeks before you try download and install so called "fixes patches" from Microsoft.

 

Latest Windows 11 update cripples PCs. Here's what to do if you're affected

 

This cumulative update for Windows 11 can slow down PCs so badly that they become unusable.

Yeah, you are right. While they are a corrupt bunch of evil clowns, they're incompetent and probably would struggle to execute on that. They can't even effectively manage their own messes, much less orchestrate a sinister plot of that degree of complexity.

9 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Wukong on a CL. 5.9/4.5

Vcore load up to 1.43 seems a bit high ?

 

I'll have to go back in and re-check my profiles and see because 1.43 under load auto? Fixed?

 

 

That is either a lousy CPU sample or it is not tuned properly. At 59x all P and 48x all E and 52x cache my 13900KS and both 14900KF are like 1.285-1.290 Vcore. He may be running really sloppy LLC allowing the light load voltage to skyrocket. It's definitely not what one would want. My load voltagee does go to 1.430V on VCore unless I am pushing to like 61x all P core. Because I use override voltage and Level 7 LLC there is not a huge difference between my idle and load voltage. 

22 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Funny, I came away with the same conclusion. 🙂

 

"Oh, here's something for @tps3443 to aspire to" and "Yeah, I'm good with the benchmark"

That's just too funny.

46 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Hmm. Extra 8 pin have been already on a few boards from both AMD and Intel (Z690 Apex had 6-pin and the Z790 Apex got 8-pin). I don't see Nvidia will push this as requirements for new GPUs. Remember all the older boardsout there that will be paired with 5090, and 95% of them all don't have it. And You can't feed more power to the GPU from the PCIe Gen5 slot. More likely they will make ready for next gen less power hungry AI cards not meant for gaming. Pair two of them and you are good to go (not for gaming). Isn't that disgusting? 

 

Also with all the modern RGB bling people want nowadays, charging of the kids gears and the need for fan headers with higher AMP rating, the boards need more 12v ompha than you'll get out from the old fashion 24-pin MB connector. 

EVGA Dark and ASUS Maximus and Rampage boards have had the PCIe power connector for many years. I think the intent is to help keep power delivery stable and consistent, minimizing variance and fluctuation, but not increase the power delivery.  Especially beneficial if multiple slots are occupied with a power-hungry component. Probably not any huge benefit if only one slot is used for the GPU and the rest are empty. But we also now have many NVMe and WiFi cards leeching power from PCIe with none of the slots except for the GPU filled, so it makes even more sense now.

13 hours ago, D2ultima said:

 

No no, defender isn't active at all. I'm saying that my windows security service, entirely, cannot be turned on or off

This is literally the services.msc properties for the service.

 

This means my security center doesn't open, like this:

 

This means I can't make a lot of changes that I should otherwise be capable of making, like disabling core isolation security so I could use the microcode update.

 

I found that I could use the microcode update if I turn off hyper virtualization on the BIOS level, but then I can't use some emulators properly that rely on virtualization to be on in said BIOS, and once I re-enable virtualization, the microcode updater disables itself, throws me back to microcode 104, and starts giving me the error popup on booting my PC every single time (error seen below):

 

Also this ASUS BIOS sucks and toggling virtualization on/off causes my system to crash, need to be turned off via holding power button down, then boots into BIOS safe mode upon next boot. Which is slightly annoying.

 

I've done sfc scannow, dcim health check restores, regedits, and all sorts of other methods to try and get the windows security service to be turned on, and it looks like the only remaining option is to do a windows reset or reinstall, which I'm flat out not willing to do.

It all falls under the "Defender" umbrella, but you are referring only to the malware part. Security Center is a GUI for Defender. My systems don't even have that. The scripts provided will wipe it out entirely. You need to be able to access it once to disable core isolation, tamper protection and all of the other trash first, then the scripts will totally remove everything except for firewall. There will be no services and no security center. I do that on all of my systems, and have been for several years now. Totally nukes it. Doesn't disable things, but physically removes them so they no longer exist and can't be re-enabled. It's awesome.

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Here you go @tps3443. System gaming stats to shoot for!

 

4090 - 3150mhz

14900KS - 64x / 49x (SP111 P126 / E81)

DDR5 8800 CL38

 

 

I watched about 4 or 5 minutes of that and now I know for certain I won't be buying that game. Based on my personal preferences it looks extremely boring to me.

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

@Mr. Fox can you post the link to the that Apex 0933 bios again. I can’t find your post. Thank you. I really appreciate it. 

Here you go, brother. https://community.hwbot.org/topic/220910-asus-rog-maximus-apex-z790-apex-15/page/7/#comment-673420

Edit: Didn't see that Brother @Papusan already posted it. Was on the next page. Oh well. 🙂

3 hours ago, D2ultima said:

Well it comes to that time again. Seems I have a problem.

 

My windows security service isn't working. I believe ages ago I used a defender switch program, but none of those new programs run anymore. I just get a popup about things being a virus then they get auto deleted. I also can't run the microcode updater, it throws me an error saying the driver can't run on the PC due to security conflicts. But I cannot open security center, or anything like that, it's just grayed out, and the security service is just completely dead. Can't enable it and a plethora of fixes can't be enabled.

 

Now whenever I restart my system it keeps throwing the error about the microcode updater driver being unable to run.

 

I should've left well enough alone and never clicked it, I don't want to reinstall windows for this.

 

Anybody got any idea on a way to fix my security issues? Think it might be as simple as installing an antivirus and letting it allow the driver? Because I am actually stumped, and I can't seem to use another defender switch to turn it back on. And this alludes to my prime example of "stop cutting things out of windows it will break things in the long run" that I keep saying.

Just nuke Defender completely and get that horrible cancer off your system. It is a resource hog that is inappropriately restrictive and interferes with use of your system.

Destroy Defender (from my OneDrive account)

If you feel compelled to have a placebo to keep you safe, ESET AV, Kasperski and Panda Free are all good options. Malwarebytes is also decent and I like the added advantage that you can close it manually and end all background services for benching.
 

3 hours ago, tps3443 said:

So who is pre-ordering the 285K? And who is waiting for the possible 295K? 

I am going to let other people spent their money and see what it produces. If it is compelling enough to even consider it, then I will look for better than average samples on overclock.net that are better than average samples after the person blowing money on binning has chosen the best one to keep for themselves. I'm not going to spend money on lottery tickets that are not guaranteed winners. I may never buy another new CPU again. I hate getting screwed with below average trash and having to fart around with RMAs. Almost every Intel and AMD CPU that I have purchased new retail has been disappointing silicon quality.

I am most assuredly not going to play ball  in the way the Redmond Retards are changing the game with Winduhz changes. I am glad I began my journey of warming up to Linux. My tolerance for the nonsense of their insane clown posse is wearing very thin. They are hanging by a thread now with their Nazi control freak shenanigans.

As I ponder the idea of sunsetting my benching hobby, any incentive to purchase new products is more or less eliminated. Financially, that is a huge win for me and a five finger death punch to the industry if many people have similar personal revelations.

I can see myself, and some other fine people of equal intelligence, (like a lot of us here,) potentially going through a long dry spell and not finding any good reason to purchase new computer tech. Maybe even never finding a good reason in the foreseeable future if the trend continues on its current undesirable downward trajectory. That would actually be a blessing in disguise in some respects. No point in wasting money on downgrades when the result is only newer is better newer.

26 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

What do you all think is going to happen with next gen Intel launch? The 285K can’t possible be their top dog chip. I mean, it has HT disabled, and it’s only about as fast as a 14900KS. The naming also sounds oddly familiar. “285K” “10850K”… 🧐Makes me think, Intel will drop a new “Value King CPU” the 285K for $449-$499 pricing. And then they release the real beast chip to compete with AMD 9000 X3D chips in the coming months. Maybe that will be the “Ultra 290K” or “Ultra 300K” 🙂 Something about the 285K competing at similar performance of the 14900KS seems a little suspicious to me. Intel has always been after that R23 MT score 😂 

 

I am curious to see how this plays out. And I will more than likely wait to see the chips launch. Hopefully we will see a Special Edition. 

If it performs the same or better as 13900KS/14900K/KF/KS and ditches the crappy smartphone cores I would be open for the change, but I am skeptical about silicon quality. If it is a voltage pig with insane thermals that limit overclocking, and leave no headroom for overclocking, then probably not.

I do love the idea of adding performance cores and eliminating Atom cores as long as benchmark scores are equal to or greater than what I have now. A big monolithic processor with matching cores under a single die, in my opinion, is the only right way to do things. I do not like the elimination of hyperthreading and I would want to see the elimination of Atom cores result in reinstatement of AVX. The E-core crap is why AVX was removed.

As usual, we need to wait and see. I'm not crazy about speculation and predictions. I prefer to see tangible evidence.

1 hour ago, Prema said:

 

Manual FTW!

  Reveal hidden contents

[\SPOILER]

Jose is going to feel slighted that you only mentioned Manuel. 😜
No shifting. Just wide open throttle.

9 minutes ago, Prema said:

The Memory Controller Voltage "bug" was introduced in Microcode v124, so before v125 eTVB and v129 voltage spike patches.

 

It's also even worse in v124...

That is sad. But, your involvement for PremaMod Partners remains priceless.

I have not noticed anything because I only went from MC 11F to 129 only to fix the SA bug on one CPU. If not for the SA bug fix I would still be using old firmware. The only reason I considered updating to 129 is because it was being reported at overclock.net that MC 129 BIOS fixed the SA bug. One of my five LGA1700 CPUs is a fantastic sample with the SA bug. The others are very good and have no SA bug. Same is/was true for @electrosoft. He has a super chip with the SA bug that 129 fixed.

Even so, I probably would not notice the eTVB bug because I manually overclock everything and have eTVB options disabled in the BIOS because I hate that kind of approach to overclocking. I find the "old school" way of doing things to always be the best approach. 

3 hours ago, Prema said:

MS can also push microcodes via Windows update as they did with the Spectre versions.

 

It's working similar to what we did with the manual update that I posted before, except for it being WHQL driver backed.

 

So, I've been testing v123, v125 & v129 microcodes on my HM77 mobile platform with 13900HX and the latter two require additional 0.025v Memory Controller Voltage at 6400Mhz XMP to be TM5 stable while v123 runs them at BIOS defaults.

 

🧐

Happy Thursday, Brother @Prema. It has been nice seeing you here.

I noticed the same. I had manually set it in the BIOS for less than default (Auto) and had to set it back to Auto to make the 8400 memory clock stable.

You know me. I'm not going to let the Redmond Reprobates make decisions for me. I, and I alone, will decide what runs on my PC. Much better that way. EULA be damned. Posted this in another thread yesterday...

A "secure" system (actually a myth) that doesn't do what you want it to do is worthless. Function and performance always trump security as far as I am concerned. All the patches and security fixes in the world won't fix the DIMM-wit using the keyboard. (Yeah, you saw what I did there, LOL.)

The biggest security risk with any computer is a stupid user.

Simple fix... for unwanted updates, not for stupid users or stupid employees working on the Windoze Support Team (can't fix stupid)... just tweak the registry and hit "Advanced options" on the Windoze Updates page in settings and delay them for 10 years. Hint: You'll need to scroll a LOOOONG way down to reach the 10 year mark.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX\Settings]
"ActiveHoursEnd"=dword:00000011
"ActiveHoursStart"=dword:00000008
"AllowAutoWindowsUpdateDownloadOverMeteredNetwork"=dword:00000000
"ExcludeWUDriversInQualityUpdate"=dword:00000001
"FlightCommitted"=dword:00000000
"IsExpedited"=dword:00000000
"LastToastAction"=dword:00000000
"UxOption"=dword:00000004
"InsiderProgramEnabled"=dword:00000000
"SvDismissedState"=dword:00000001
"SmartActiveHoursSuggestionState"=dword:00000001
"SmartActiveHoursTimestamp"=hex(b):b9,80,63,7c,b6,73,da,01
"HideMCTLink"=dword:00000001
"RestartNotificationsAllowed2"=dword:00000000
"SmartActiveHoursStart"=dword:00000007
"SmartActiveHoursEnd"=dword:00000010
"FlightSettingsMaxPauseDays"=dword:00000e42

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX\Settings\ModelState]
"SignalRegistered"="::2F1AAFCACF"

No need to worry about stupid crap like this (below) ruining your day when you're calling all of the shots and keeping the numbskulls at Micro$lop out of your business.

15 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Yup. And this apply also for the OS. 

An update made to fix a vulnerability broke dual-boot Windows-Linux PCs

neowin.com · 7 hours ago

A Windows Patch Tuesday update that was supposed to fix a vulnerability has caused a number of dual-boot Windows-Linus PCs to no longer boot up in Linux. Microsoft has yet to fix this problem.