Mr. Fox

10 minutes ago, Prema said:

Check the Advanced tab for it to be enabled for unsupported games.

It was enabled when I ran it, so that base was covered.

 

I disabled it and disabled DTPF in the BIOS and the lost FPS was recovered (identical avg/min/max FPS) and it no longer is extra stuttery feeling like it is with DTPF enabled with the Optimizer turned on.

31 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I've never installed that Intel Optimizer thing. I may tr it. My boost is only holding 2775. So, you're 200MHz higher on core, which would explain that 2 FPS difference.

 

I will try the Intel Optimizer first and see if that makes any difference, and then lock my boost to match yours and see what it does.

 

21 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Does this require DTPF be enabled in the BIOS? I have that disabled. I don't like it. The Optimizer says "Failed to Connect" probably because of that.

 

21 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Yes, it does. I didn't think Dynamic tuning enabled in bios did or changed anything else, other than allowing APO to work. I do not use XTU or anything, but Dynamic tuning is enabled in the bios on my system. 

Well the Intel Optimizer (with DTPF enabled in the BIOS) actually hindered performance. Decreased my results by 1 FPS but also looks more stuttery than it does with it disabled. It looks like the App doesn't have any support for this game. Metro Exodus is the only one listed that I play. Most of the supported games I either do not own or have zero interest in owning/playing them. I am going to check some of CPU benchmarks to see if they were diminished and probably disable that in the BIOS. I have always hated DTPF and Intel ME feces. It doesn't look like I have any legitimate need for it or the Optimizer app.

9 minutes ago, Prema said:

Speaking of Intel APO. Here are the latest drivers:

 

https://mega.nz/file/6Ml0RCgI#vqCfokXy0EqbrYLpI6ejZs-r2l-15Xhop-AnrykiVXY

 

Does this require DTPF be enabled in the BIOS? I have that disabled. I don't like it. The Optimizer says "Failed to Connect" probably because of that.

3 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

While 2fps is very very small that is actually 10% difference. Make sure you have Rebar forced. I am also using Intel Application Optimizer as well. My GPU is running 2910 boost steady. My first run did 27fps, and I should have screen shot that one. But I tried again and it was 26fps. 

I've never installed that Intel Optimizer thing. I may tr it. My boost is only holding 2775. So, you're 200MHz higher on core, which would explain that 2 FPS difference.

 

I will try the Intel Optimizer first and see if that makes any difference, and then lock my boost to match yours and see what it does.

1 minute ago, tps3443 said:

My GPU is aircooled. It does not hold high boost. It is a very poor bin unfortunately. Looks to be hitting 71c max

Oh, that's right. I forgot. Your ambients are probably not as high as mine are. I would imagine it would be getting even hotter than that if they were. Even if it is not the best silicon quality and won't overclock as high as some that are better, it should do everything you do in terms of gaming extremely well. More likely that it is "average" rather than "poor" quality. 

I ran all these on the Gigabyte 4090. I will try the same on the 4090 Suprim to see if there is a difference. That GPU is better bin than the Gigabyte GPU.

20 minutes ago, Prema said:

 

Your Frame Generation is still enabled.

Needs a restart of the app make it stick.

OK, now it is a slideshow. Not as good as your prediction.

12 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

It’s almost a double cheeseburger! But not quite. Still impressive for your laptop though. If we could force DLSS OFF, we’d gain much more FPS at native 100% scaling. This is essentially DLAA. 
 

Motion blur takes a little more VRAM, but otherwise performance is the same. With your chiller you are getting a couple of extra frames probably because the GPU is holding boost fully. I am not using the chiller and my office is 81°F (27°C) and not holding max boost clock due to that. (Core max 69.3°C and hotspot 88.9°C with the hot ambient temps.)

 

FPS identical with motion blur disabled, but VRAM slightly less used.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Prema said:

 

With everything maxed out, disable Super Resolution (set to 100%) as well as Frame Generation.

 

OK. Here you go, Brother. Not quite the slideshow expected but a much lower FPS.

29 minutes ago, Prema said:

Now do the raw-run. Going by your results you are about to see roughly 33FPS. 😉

I am not sure what that means if you can clarify what setting to try. There is no option to turn off DLSS in the benchark, but I ran every combo I could identify with DLSS, FSR, TSR and XeSS, RT set on Very High on all.

25 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I mean, it’s still 8.5% and your resolution slider was 65% and not 66% 😂 But, I really don’t think it matters about CPU OC, and or RAM OC. I’m pretty sure an i3 with DDR4 3200 would probably yield a similar result as me now with my 4090. My 4090 doesn’t overclock well at all. I saw one 4090 boosting near my max OC only his was completely stock (Very sad) 😭 but you probably will beat me in this one easily @electrosoft 

I’d go ahead and do a full on OC run with the GPU OCed. I think this benchmark might come down to whose GPU has best silicon. I didn’t exactly see any action in the benchmark, it looks like a bunch of senior animal ninjas slowly walking around their retirement resort in the jungle. 😂

Most games like this are very boring to me. Not enough action to hold my attention like a FPS.

 

7 hours ago, Prema said:

Happy Birthday Brother Papu!!! 🎂

 

 

And now everyone remove Nvidia's FPS Shenanigans from the equation, disable Super Resolution (set to 100%) as well as Frame Generation and "raw-bench" Wukong in all its maxed out glory. 

 

Going first!

Here is my 4090 Notebook with 0.875v UV at 2400Mhz with 1000Mhz+ on vRAM at 4K:

 

  Hide contents

 

[\SPOILER]

 

8 hours ago, electrosoft said:

And here is some AMD 7900XTX runs on the 14900KS. I had to actually bump my Vcore up to 1.32 for 5.6/4.5/5.0 (1.2 under load)  to get it to run properly not just with shader compiles but normal use too. This thing is hungry. I think there are going to be a lot of systems that are going to crash/won't run this on launch. This is the same profile I have to run for even small OCCT and Y-cruncher testing. I can pass CB23/CB15 at 1.29 on the new bios and 1.28 (1.152v load) on the old bios. But this thing required the same profile as the ultra hungry stuff. Temps were good though! 🙂

 

This is why I like having multiple profiles. I can load up 5.9 all core auto tuned for WoW and FO76 and 5.6 as above for any heavy hitting.

 

As for AMD, er, well.... let's just say RT really isn't in the future for them with this game in any meaningful way.

 

Using the same settings as my previous run on the 4090 (and same as @tps3443😞

 

7900XTX stock + 14900KS fixed 56x/45x/50x RT ON:

 

(Note: this run was the first run and includes shader compiles data  in the HWInfo)

 

 

 

 

7900XTX stock + 14900KS fixed 56x/45x/50x  RT OFF:

 

The game has great graphics no matter what settings are chosen. Very good appearance. I am so glad the benchmark is free. Now I don't need to buy the game to get the benchmark. (Not a fan of the RPG genre, so it is highly unlikely that I will buy it.)

 

For comparison:

14900KF @ 59x-P, 48x-E, 52x Cache

Memory @ 8400 CL38

4090 Stock
Display @ 4K 144Hz
DLSS, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation On 

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DLSS, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation Off

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DLSS, RT OFF, Frame Generation On

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DLSS, RT OFF, Frame Generation OFF

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FSR, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation On

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TSR, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation On

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XeSS, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation On

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DLSS SR 100%, DLSS, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation On

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DLSS SR 100%, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation OFF

29 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

 

bromance at its finest, you two are cute 😄 

LOL. Any man that doesn't love his friends and family is either a liar or a monster. Any man that is scared to admit it because they are worried someone is going to think they are queer needs to seek professional help. I think the underlying issue is many confusing love as being somehow related to carnal instincts and they're totally different. It is sad to know that the former is totally missing from the lives of some people, while the latter is something we have in common with animals.

I can hardly wait to watch this movie. 🤣 Looks like it will be pretty hilarious.

 

Brother @Papusan I hope tomorrow you enjoy a wonderful day. Thanks for being such a good friend to all of us here in the forums. May tomorrow be the first day of your best year of life.

 

 

I hate it when hardware needs a specific operating system for the hardware features to work. That is super scummy. It is especially scummy if it is an operating system that sucks and you don't want to use it, but it is the only way the feature will function because of collusion between software developer and hardware manufacturer.  That should be against the law. Hardware features should be required to be OS agnostic and the sale of the hardware banned if it is not.

I forgot how different overclocking was with this old stuff. What seems like very high voltage now is normal back then. XMP default OC voltage for DDR3 is 1.650V and bumping it to 1.700V is better. The colors of the values do not change to red until like 1.750V and that is the low end of the red range. VCore using an ASUS "watercooled OC gaming profile" is 1.550V. And, even with that high of voltage look at the reasonable temperatures... Core max 78°C with an AIO.

 

Big die... big IHS... less heat bottleneck. But, everyone just loves a die shrink. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

 

Newer is better newer. Smaller is better hotter. The truth will set you free.

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5623603

19 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I would have been open to AMD. But I already had a 2022 Z690 Hero motherboard. So I’m going to just use that and build a simple iGPU gaming rig.  I’m going to overclock the iGPU to the max, run the fastest ram I can. As far as I remember the iGPU on 12th gen really trumped the prior gen DDR4 Intel iGPU’s. 

I think I may have a G.SKILL 7200 kit I am not using that I will sell for a good price if you don't have any already. I also have a Crucial/Micron DDR5 Pro kit that I have used just for testing, but it's really not designed for overclocking. I think I have run it at 6000 on a two slot board. Which is probably all a 4-slot Z690 motherboard is going to manage with stability anyhow.

Here is a free new GPU benchmark that looks like it might be a good one for comparing GPU performance.

 

 

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

Looking to buy a CPU for my daughter’s first desktop PC. I won’t be getting a discrete GPU right away for this system. She will be using just the iGPU on the CPU for all of her gaming needs. Plus she only runs like Roblox, and Sims 4 anyways. 
 

It seems like the 12900KS is probably the way to go here. I’m looking at newer chips and I don’t think I can find anything for this cheap. Any thoughts on other possible options? I’m looking to spend no more than $300? Preferably less. 
 

I do plan to overclock the iGPU quite a bit, which seems to help more so than overclocking actual graphics cards lol. 

For the money I don't think you're going to do any better than that 12900KS on iGFX.

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

Anyone try one of these AIO’s, they have any problems? I have this one for my daughter’s build. It looks very similar to the NZXT Z73 I used in my son’s PC. 
 

There is a possibility that they look alike if they are made by the same company and just rebranded with their own names, logos and proprietary aesthetic gadgetry. A lot of AIOs are basically Asetek clones.

Got the Klevv DDR3-2666 and tightened up the timings. Nice bump.  Hard to believe it is DDR3, eh @tps3443

https://hwbot.org/submission/5622859_

 

This quad channel kit is really nice. They are super heavy and the heatsinks look excellent.

 

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Now that you've had it for a bit, what is your opinion of the DD EK AIO?

I have no interest in running a CPU with the IHS and stock solder intact. In light of that, this is probably the ideal alternative to a custom loop. Definitely superior to a standard AIO and/or a stock CPU with no delid/bare die. It can't replace my more elaborate (and costly) setups, but it does not need to in the situation for which this system is purposed.

 

In short, I think it is excellent and I am super glad that I snagged it. I think this exceeds what one can typically expect from a SFF desktop.

3 hours ago, electrosoft said:

@Raiderman

 

I always say, when I want a new BIOS to drop, all I have to do is install the most recent.... 🙂

 

https://download.msi.com/bos_exe/mb/7D70v1J.zip

 

 

Luckily, the system recert was still taking place so I updated to this one and back to testing my dialed in timings on mem and other subsystems before a clean install tonight across the board.

Speaking of that... MSI finally dropped the new BIOS with MC 0x129 for the Z790I Edge. Working like a champ. No issues with stability or loss of performance. Memory tuned nicely. 57x P-Cores, 47x E-Cores, 52x Cache, VCore 1.290V, 8200 CL38-48-48-84. Sweet little monster now with the 3090 Ti FTW3.

8 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

 I wonder if this also applies to Windows 10 or even the LTSC editions of Windows 10. If so, this is yet another software tweak to further increase performance. I'll take it! Screw security, just gimme more performance!

To the extent it actually produces a measurable difference it is likely to be on a bone stock version of Windows 11. If a person has done a good job of exorcizing the demonic powers hiding in the smelly butt-crack of a vanilla cancer version I suspect it probably doesn't change much, if anything.

 

I am wondering to what extent simply logging out and then into a new/different account might produce a similar result. If there are fewer startup processes and no scheduled "maintenance" running in the background when logging in on a new or seldom used Windows user account this will definitely result in a performance boost.

2 hours ago, saturnotaku said:

For people who say they aren't fanboys, they sure act like it.

I just know what I don't want and know what I won't settle for as an alternative. Pretty cut and dry. Remember, it was not long ago that I gave it a spin with 5950X and then with 6900 XT and both were disappointing to me. Had I pretended that I was happy and been willing to settle then that would have made me a fanboy for sure. I don't care about brand. I care about getting what I want. I'd kick Intel to the curb in a heartbeat if AMD actually offered something that looked enticing to me on the surface and delivered on my expectations. I'm not ready to roll the dice again. Maybe someday, but the wounds are too fresh to even consider it. I've given them multiple opportunities to give me something that makes me happy over the past ~15 years, wasted some of my hard-earned money in the process, and it hasn't worked out for them. I'd say that is pretty open-minded, but I am not going to lower my standards as an accommodation.

57 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

automatic encryption? wtf MS, hands off my storage!!!

For now we have to just settle for disabling the service. Even using NSudo does not allow manually deleting the BitLocker service. At least we can disable this trash. Maybe it can be removed from the ISO with NTLite like Defender.

Windows 11 truly does suck, but that may not be a legitimate crutch. It sucks for all CPUs, not just Ryzen 5.

Quote

10:25 - I guess is what I'm trying to say and it's really important to note that all the information this video changes nothing about the reviews. The gaming performance relative to Zen4 doesn't really change as we just saw. Relative to Intel processors this may improve Ryzen's position but that is also just an assumption... my fear was that someone would run with the story and in the process create mass hysteria online with claims that Windows 11 is to blame for Zen5's weak gaming performancee when in reality that does not appear to be the case for now... Zen5's gaming performance remains highly disappointing.