electrosoft

2 hours ago, Raiderman said:

@electrosoft @jaybee83 this is good news, and somewhat surprising.

Zen 5 launch prices expected to be lower than zen 4 launch prices!

 

https://www.bundle.app/en/technology/amd-may-be-doing-something-unprecedented-with-ryzen-9000-C6626952-2124-40D2-8623-0ABF6F065C95

Better pricing always works but.....

14 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

yeah i had already seen rumours on that online regarding pricing very comparable to Zen 4. lets hope this is not indicative of non-competitive performance vs. Intel and Zen 4 😄 

......this.

For some reason, I'm not expecting a massive uplift or performance bump. Evolutionary vs revolutionary round 2.

I'm definitely in hold mode till X3D and will snuggle up to my 7950X3D till that time and maybe beyond before price cuts hit.

Pricing also might reflect market saturation along with real world worldwide market conditions along with stagnant opening sales for AMD last time around because pricing was too high across the board (CPU, MB and DDR5).

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

You know, when I was gaming playing Cyberpunk, I turned off/on my E-Cores out of curiosity in the video below. So just a straight 5.9P 8/16 CPU essentially. I noticed some hitching periodically and some GPU usage drops periodically too. Turning on E-Cores fixed this right away. I had consistent GPU usage when E-Cores were on, and it was just crazy smooth. But not with them E-Cores off . Really makes me wonder if there actually is an advantage with Intel and these E-Cores handling windows back ground stuff in certain titles that no one has mentioned as a possible problem for these 8/16 chips. I mean, if my 14900KS with E-Cores disabled and only 8/16 at 5.9Ghz and DDR5 8600 and a 4080S can’t handle the heat, then a 7800X3D certainly cannot with a 4090+ GPU right? Enabling these E-Cores alleviates this dropped GPU usage and smoothness. I caught this in my video below. And just found it interesting. It always made me think a 5800X3D or 7800X3D AMD CPU would never be enough core wise for some of these well optimized newer games, where 8/16 is just not enough running a 4090. This leads me back to my memories/experience with the 11900K chips (Those were not enough either with a 3090 at times)
 

This is 1080P so it’s the ultimate CPU test lol. But still I have to give props for the 14900KS performance as a whole. 
 

In the video I start out with E-Cores on, then I work them all! Then I re-enable them. 
 

 

 

I actually watched that the other night. I'm subbed to your channel. I really liked the consistent fps and smooth performance with no hitching when running full tilt.  I think I posted it many months ago, but taking several weeks to test and tune my 13900ks at 8000 CL36  the 13900ks was neck and neck with my 7800X3D at the time. Out of box vs out of box running at 7200 (intel) vs 6000 (amd), 7800X3D really outclassed it but once tuned up? It was a good shoot out and I think my final conclusion was I could be happy with either at that point.

7800X3D was tuned as I had had it for some time. 13900ks was tuned with a UV and dialed in LLC on the MSI Z790i Edge with the EK Nucleus 240 and 7950X3D out of the box as it was nearly fresh and new (both CCDs enabled)

Now, the idea is to run that better/binned X3D CCD = binned 7800X3D vs 14900KS tuned up with and without APO optimizations and see where we land again with the 4090. It will give me an excuse to swap in my MSI 1300w PSU too.

---

When the 12900k dropped and testing WoW, turning off e-cores actually provided better performance. It could have been a first gen architectural issue and/or teething issues with scheduling, but by the time the 13900ks dropped, keeping e-cores on provided equal if not better performance overall along with a better overall bump to performance. Now we have APO that supports WoW that's supposed to boost even more so we'll see.

I know you like to test games yourself. If you ever want to test WoW, you will need to test the newest content as it has all the enhancements so Shadowlands and Dragon Isles only.  Problem is you will need a level 60 character and lots of leveling to get to the point to do the best test spots (flight runs in Ardenweald for SL / Coast to coast flight in DI along with camping out in Valdrakken aka the CPU slayer).

Nothing is more irritating than some YTers that load into basic WoW which is still running assets meant to run on a patched version of their 2007 engine and go, "lolz, 400fps....lolz....WoW will run on a tin can....lolz...I rule!!!111!!1" I usually hop into the comments and say they need to test in content from the last 4-5yrs to really get an idea.

I might finally retire my EVGA CLC 360mm from my test case as it is being outclassed now by even my EK Nucleus 240mm and pick up the latest and baddest 360mm for it. I'll have to go take a looksy.

25 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I tried the Patriot 8200 C38’s when they first came out. I loved the easy disassembly with screws and they have a PMIC thermal pad too. Very nice kit. But the big misconception about ram is, It’s only as good as your IMC. Even at lower speeds. My G.Skill 8200’s required 1.500V to run 8400c40 on my R-Batch and other CPU, but my current chip can run them at 8600c40 at 1.400V. I think all of these ram kits are equally good up top, and all of them can probably reach similar speeds. We’re just IMC limited. 

Preach. 🙂

I think all of us in this thread know about hitting IMC walls at one time or another.... 🤣

Agreed they are all about the same up top, hence shopping for best bang:buck. I'm not dropping $350 on a pair of G.Skill 8400 2x24GB sticks. I saw in the review where they noted the screwed down heatsinks made it easy to remove them for aftermarket heatsinks. They just made sense across the board. I love hardware but I'm also very frugal (my daughter calls me a tightwad).

My objective is to remove ram as the limitation at least as it was the wall I hit before across three systems (2x AMD, 1x Intel) and I leave the other variables in play (CPU, MB). 1DPC w/ the Strix will help but in the end, my objective is 8000 tight but I will of course tweak and tune as high as possible for at least benching.

I plan on slapping the 14900KS SP109 in the wife's system first on the Z690 DDR4 board because I want to see if those sticks I bought from @Mr. Fox a few years back can go any further.  They could do 4100 on my 12900k cool hand luke that is in my NH55 now. With the other 12900k I delidded and swapped in to the Z690, it can only do  ~4000 B-die tight, but when I tested them with my old 10900k golden chip back then they had no problems doing 4500 so I know the sticks are righteous and good to go. Plus it is a quick way to verify the V/F curve.

I ordered the memory. Once I verify the CPU I'll order the Strix Z790i and then slap it all in my test bench for a few weeks of fun testing with the 7900xtx and Suprin 4090 before then moving into shoehorning it into the S450 SFF 12.7L case.

I do plan on testing Intel's APO extensively with WoW since it is supported to see how it stacks up against the 7950X3D and binned 7800X3D (aka CCD0 turned off). Even at 4k, I'm CPU limited in numerous scenarios and GPU utilization will dip to 88-90% since WoW is still massively CPU dependent and not fully multithreaded even with the engine overhaul.

I went with the Patriot 2x24GB set since they're the Hynix  modules and that price is great. I don't need the Teamgroup 360mm AIO even doing the offset cost  it is $160 vs $189 but I just don't have a need for it nor would it be a model I would seek out plus I get 6% back from Amazon on top of that. $190 shipped when all is said and done.

All the bad reviews on Amazon are from the 2x16GB 2GB 8000mhz older modules which were already at or near  their limits most likely anyhow (especially if Samsung).

Here's a nice write up on the Patriot 2 x 24GB kit if someone is interested in giving them a try too. Post is only 1d old as of this post.

14900KS SP109 arrived early today versus Monday. I can only test it on an Asus Prime B660 (system for sale I haven't even listed yet) or Strix Z690 (wife's system w/ 12900k) atm.

Currently on the hunt for 2x24GB sticks 8000+. I've narrowed it down to the usual suspects from G.skill and Teamgroup but found a good price on some Patriot 8200 sticks 2x24GB for $190 here

Decent review here from TT.

Anyone else with better bang:buck sticks recommendations?

Also Teamgroup sticks for $269 but you get a $110 360mm aRGB AIO for free with it...lol.

34 minutes ago, Rage Set said:

I know Asrock was doing this but I didn't know Zotac and Gigabyte were placing Warranty Voided if Removed stickers.

 

I one of those that reported Asrock to the FTC about those illegal stickers.

 

https://www.techspot.com/news/103669-ftc-warns-pc-manufacturers-consumers-have-right-repair.html

 

 

Just a scummy move and another layer of companies trying to deny warranty claims to save $$$. Imagine if we didn't have the FTC what would happen? We need consumer protection laws like the EU has which are vastly superior to ours.

On 7/3/2024 at 12:36 PM, Mr. Fox said:

Temps are the challenge with air cooling. I have landed on 8200 C36 (see HWiNFO in last post with screenshots) as the daily driver. 8400 and 8600 just get way too hot on air, especially in a restrictive SFF case. Even 8200 was too hot with stock heating blankets. The fan helps a little, but didn't with the stock trash covers.

Were you able to hit 8400 and 8600 for short term testing before temps became an issue? I do know the Strix board I tested briefly before (Z790i) wouldn't even post past 8200 while the MSI Z790i would hit 8400 and 8600 for at least posting with the 13900KS SP115.

18 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I thought the new Gigabyte Z790 ITX motherboard was really good at ram OC? I’d go for that. 

Ugh, Gigabyte.....no thanks. 🤣 I have yet to have had a good experience with a Gigabyte board from Z390 through Z590. Reading over the Z790i Ultra from them I'm not doing backflips....

16 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

Congrats. That was a good deal.

---

Thanks!

Funny, but I was just revving the engine to start to seek out a nicely binned 14900k/ks for this push for a 12.4L SSF as I want to try to "re-tame" a 14900ks with the EK Nucleus CR240 sitting on the shelf that I used with the 13900KS with zero throttling.

I was kicking myself a bit because I had turned down an SP108 14900KS for $800 because I didn't need it at the time a few months ago and thought I should have picked it up just in case.

Debating on picking up another MSI Z790i Edge or going with a Strix z790i for something new(ish) as I explored that Z790i Edge from every possible angle so no new ground to tread but I really love those boards. Amazon Warehouse has the Strix Z790i for $230 (normally $450)
 

How far were you able to push the MSI Z90i edge memory? I was limited by my sticks at the time as tested across three systems, they just wouldn't do much over 8000 (G4 x670e, MSI z790i edge, G4 Asrock B650 2 dimmer) tested but could boot 8400 and individually 8600.

8 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Alright awesome! And good luck! Maybe it will have a IMC like this one.

I would need the proper board and memory to really test it so I'll probably never know how high it can fly lol.

13 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I am sort of a patreon supporter for this guy named “Pure Dark” anyways, the guy makes mods for games that do not initially or never support DLSS, or Frame Gen etc. Some of his stuff is free, while the rest of it is behind a pay wall ($5 dollars per month, you can just pay once download everything and cancel lol). But, I think it’s worth it. Game devs are slow to incorporate the best Nvidia tech in some of these titles. And I think that’s where the Pure Dark modded comes in useful. I am using his mods in Avatar Pandora game, it added Nvidia DLSS3+FG and it worked 100% smoothly. He’s also done a lot of other older games, that were pre frame gen. He also did Starfield DLSS+ FG before Bethesda added it to the game officially like 4-6 months later lol. Anyways, I still have a subscription to him and I need to cancel it. 
 

 

@electrosoft Dis you snag that SP109 (14900KS) for $599? 😂

I DID snag it! lol!

I couldn't pass up that price for an SP109!

9 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

4080S is essentially an 3090 Ti with the core overclocked 700-750MHz and the memory about 1000 MHz higher with 8GB less VRAM than a 3090 Ti. If you matched the 4080S clocks with the 3090 Ti the FPS would probably be about the same. The 4080S is not remarkably faster even though there is pretty huge difference in stock clocks.

True, maybe see if @tps3443 will lock his clocks to ~2200 (or what was his solid D2D OC on his KP 3090) on his 4080 Super and see how it compares to his previous 3090 results.

3090ti vs 4080 super.

My original assessment stands. Raw power, the only real upgrade for a 3090/3090ti owner is the 4090. I suspect history will repeat itself for 4090 owners and the only real upgrade will be the 5090.

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

 

I always consider Sapphire for AMD cards. They really are the old school EVGA of the AMD world. It's usually Sapphire and Asrock now for card consideration unless you can find a killer priced variant like the Powercolor I picked up for $720 total to my door. 🙂

And he's right, anti-sag is a must for the bulky GPUs and hilarious the owner dropped a dumbbell on his GPU!That's a first! 🤣

NWR declaring the Sapphire the best version of the 7900xtx (timestamped) and overall I'd agree. I don't think he has done a Taichi 7900xtx repair.

4 hours ago, Raiderman said:

@electrosoft

https://www.kitguru.net/components/motherboard/joao-silva/msi-launches-new-bios-updates-with-agesa-1-2-0-0-for-600-series-motherboards/

 

It has not shown up on our product page, though 👎

Hopefully this one fixes the boot times from their last update..... I'll give it a whirl when it drops. 🙂

4 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

"MSI continues to prioritize user satisfaction by regularly providing updates that address issues and enhance performance"

 

Nice. Finally after 1.5 years they are able to fix the 4000 series stability issues. And right in time for 9000 series Ryzen. Yup.........

 

 

 

I don't run a 4060 or 4070 so.........yeah. 🙂

17 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

At least he got back on the right path for using dry ice with a pot. But, his results were not impressive due to lack of experience. I've done better using chilled water. But, it's still good for entertainment purposes.

 

He has a decent amount of experience with LN2. Nowhere near on the scale of the true pros though. The immediate problem is the pot and surface coverage. If he had a better pot tailored to the 14900k, it would do better. His approach for the most part is sound. He notes the pot limitations early on in the video because the other one he wants to use can't clear the caps on the MB. The pot is not centered either. It is just not the right tool for the job. 🙂

A binned 14900k would help a bit too along with tuning the voltages in tandem to dial it in with the pot. Also throw in a need for an optimized W11 environment and maybe some RT runs for measure too.

CB23 44,451 multi  is not great at all....but always fun to watch.

On 6/21/2024 at 2:55 AM, 1610ftw said:

 

Nice and at only 1.2V!

 

After a quick search of my own I was surprised that there is even a CL18 memory from Mushkin:

https://www.poweredbymushkin.com/Home/index.php/products2/item/130-ddr4/1581-mra4s320gjjm32gx2?ic=1

 

and I did not find it on their site but they go as low as CL16:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Mushkin-Redline-Notebook-Dual-Channel-MRA4S320GJJM16GX2/dp/B08QHMYCK3?th=1

 

I have no experience with them whatsoever but it looks to me like this memory runs with tighter timings and higher voiltage directly from the manufacturer probably via an XMP profile so it is a bit of a long shot that this will work.

 

According to Amazon mixed reviews, working for some but not for others:

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B08QHMYCK3/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_sr?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=all_stars&reviewerType=all_reviews&formatType=current_format&pageNumber=1#reviews-filter-bar

 

So CL16 is probably a bit too ambitious...

I tried the Mushkin kit last march (2023) and it requires XMP / manual timings access and was only single rank for the 2x16GB kit. I ended up sending it back. I left a review on Amazon about it:

20 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Shouldn't happen in first place. I have deleted Defender on all my OS and prefer Eset. All too much weirdo happen with Microsoft trash software. 

First thing I do after a clean install is delete defender and OneDrive from all my new installs on my personal systems.  I have zero desire for either.

18 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I agree on the motherboard aspect. I'm hoping there isn't too much difference between the 600, and 800 series, because I finally have many of the bugs ironed out with my X670. It's been quirky, to say the least, and as much as I'd love to have a shiny new taichi x870, I'd prefer to hang with this gen for maybe another year.

Ditto. I have no desire to upgrade my MSI board and it is running just fine atm (knock on wood). I'll be holding off till X3D so I'll get to get a taste of launch results from you and @jaybee83 at least.

18 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

The statement "faster in gaming" being tossed around like it is some kind of magical thing makes me kind of sad. It is as if the whole world has lost sight of what is most important. But, alas, they have. In countless ways. But, limiting conversation to computers rather than generalizations about life in 2024, the measure of a CPU that is most important should be how it does at things that only a CPU can do, not have it behaves when used to play games. It feels like a cop out or a distraction to be focused on how a GPU-centric task like gaming responds to a CPU when "better" isn't anything genuinely earth-shattering.  If the 9950X does better at workloads only a CPU can do it will be the better CPU than a 7800X3D even if the 7800X3D gets a few more FPS.

Task is irrelevant. What matters to you is what is important and if increased CPU performance is a metric of validity. You bench. It really has no real world, tangible use except its a leisurely pursuit of fun to push hardware as much as possible in your level of benching (above most, below  LN2'ers) but I think you said it yourself that if you ditched benching because of shifting hardware market priorities by companies, you would most likely just run a turdbook as it is close enough for your actual D2D needs.

Gaming (and a close second is compile times) is my priority in regards to computational power and if the CPU is a limiting factor / bottleneck, I will start to seek out upgrades to improve it. If I ditched gaming and casual overclocking, I would probably drastically downsize my computer hardware and effectively run on a turdbook too along with my Macbooks for work. 🙂

9 hours ago, cylix said:

 

I will be switching for sure for a x870 board and new memory which i think well be EXPO 6400 at least. I am now on the b650 and a new gen x870e will be a good upgrade.  Until now i like the Gigabyte x870e Aourus Pro ICE, clean white MB which will pass nice for my white build. But lets see what MSI brings out.

Coming from a B650, that will be a most righteous upgrade! Do you plan on upgrading to the 9000 series too?

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I was finally able to get the little munchkin on bare die. This reduced the core max 8 to 10°C over the already delidded CPU with a lapped core and IHS on liquid metal. I could see this being easily an 18 to 20°C improvement over a stock soldered IHS. There aren't many SFF systems capable of what this one is. Heck, it's better than most full-size builds, LoL. I am really impressed with what EKWB did here.

 

Agreed 100% and really liking the results on the DD CR360. So many were whining and going on about the hotbox / thermal nuclear status of 13th and 14th gen, but getting one tamed quite nicely in a 18.4L SFF on a 240mm CR240 and running full tilt no problem was rather satisfying and on that same MSI  motherboard no less. 🙂

Equally satisfying was taming the X170SM/KM w/ 10900k and 11900k and the NH55 w/ 12900k too. There's an equal satisfaction getting hardware to run well in small form factors as there is having full wide open spaces and hardware and pushing it without restrictions. At least to me there is.

I actually picked up one of these for more SFF (open box for $90) adventures going from 18.4L to 12.4L  in an even smaller and tighter space.

What is the volume size of that case? It kind of looks like the volume of an NR200MAX

37 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

@electrosoft @jaybee83 45% is a whopping statement! I'll believe it when I buy it!

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-9-9950x-16-core-zen-5-cpu-aida64-benchmarks-ddr5-8000-45-percent-faster-7950x/

I'll be real curious to see the entire breadth of benchmarks for the 9950x. We know it won't be as fast as the 7800X3D for gaming but in other memory intensive tasks, I'm real curious to see how much improvements they've made with the IMC to take full advantage of that memory bandwidth meaningfully whereas the 7000 series can now hit 8000+, but outside of memory bandwidth benchmarks, we're just not seeing any real tangible gains and in some cases performance loss between G2 and G4 (which makes sense when you  think at it).

I'm definitely excited to see what it brings to the table and if a 9950X3D is in my future. 🙂

I'm equal parts interested to see how 7000 and 9000 perform on 600 and 800 series boards too and if there is any performance loss using a 9000 series on a 600 series board.

33 minutes ago, chew said:

 

here you go. WR single and multi mem scores......  3000 fclk

 

I'm to lazy to post all FM scores but feel free to search 8500g,8600g,8700g apu scores.....I own the entire suite of benchmarks minus ray tracing benches....i saw no point in a bench that the APU doesn't support feature.....

 

 

 

Bro that is awesome, congrats! ❤️

41 minutes ago, Rage Set said:

KP is back....with PNY?!

 

 

 

So my next card will be a KP PNY 5090. Never thought I'd writing that. 

 

Whoa..... never saw that coming! But I kind of like it because they're not really established in the premier/OC space at all and he wouldn't have to fight the culture change to his vision at say Asus or MSI.

"K|NGPYN" - I can see it now. 🙂

And if he is with PNY, my 5090 will be a PNY too.

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

Oh AMD.....why?

*Downloads Party Animals* 🤣

51 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Hmmm. Directly from the repairman. 

 

This is the XFX variant and non reference design (3x 8 pin power connectors). This is a custom Merc card.

Until he checks all the non reference designs for the same mask....well.......there you go. 🙂

I would be curious to see him check cards like the Nitro+ and Taichi for their mask designs.

Also that crack on the PCB, yikes!

19 hours ago, Talon said:

 

I actually have every intention of getting an X870E board and X3D when it drops. I want to compare myself. Looks like I'll be waiting a bit for those, the non X3D parts just do no interest me given they seem to be nothing really new in terms of gaming performance. And I definitely won't be buying an X670E for the price of the new shiny they're holding back. 

This is the way brother. 🙂

After the wife getting her own PC during the pandemic, building the secondary PC for my daughter to use and having my workbench case always at the ready for testing, I can't see not having multiple PCs going at all times now and all really at the ready test beds where gear and equipment will sometimes filter down.

I love comparing myself along with reading everybody else's results. I always test bone stock everything and then start to tweak and OC while testing along the way to get a clear picture....oh and it's fun!

EVGA X670E Classified ES board....*sigh* what could have been before they basically abandoned their entire MB and GPU divisions.... 😞

https://www.overclock.net/threads/evga-x670e-classified.1811115/

1 hour ago, Talon said:

 

Right and I totally get that, but my point was, AMD does seem to be rushing these out. Intel 13th/14th gen CPUs already essentially match and sometimes lose/beat 7800X3D. Depends on the game, and config used by tester. An 8000+ DDR5 14th gen will do much better than a 6000MTs test used by some outlets. 

 

If AMD is admitting they won't beat the X3D 7000 parts, then they will just match the 14th gen Intel chips in gaming, yet they claimed 10% better? Something is not adding up here for them. Maybe they're sandbagging though. Both of them do seem to be very quiet this launch. 

 

But not having the new boards ready to go, no mention of pricing from AMD seems odd. If they're not going to beat out 14th gen Intel in gaming, at least by any reasonable margin, how will they compete against Arrow Lake? Unless ARL is a total flop or goes backwards, ARL should offer superior gaming and multithreaded use. So it will make selling these non-3d parts more difficult unless priced competitively, again they're being quiet about price though. 

 

AMD X3D should be good for gaming and offer a nice bump. This gen certainly seems like it's going to be a lot more competitive. 

Tuned 12th beat down 5800X3D.

7800X3D trumps stock 13th/14th gen

Tuned 13th/14th gen can go toe to toe with tuned 7800X3D depending on games

"Gear 4" on 7000 is basically a bandwidth e-peen contest at this point with no, real tangible gains on the level of Intel in the same boat.  After testing those sweet 8000 sticks I bought from @Raiderman for a month I sold them as they really didn't do much in regards to tangible performance uplift in real world usage for my case usage.

After testing both side by side for over a month (during and after I got my MSI X670E Carbon back from MSI for RMA), I was perfectly fine with either. Only thing was Intel sucked down a lot more power to achieve competitive results.

Seeing as 9000 series as is won't beat the 7800X3D (Unlike 7000 vs 5000 where the 7600x is basically on par with the 5800X3D), I'll wait for Arrow Lake and the X3D parts to drop and hold steady while @Raiderman and @jaybee83 snatch up 9950X3D's to give us some up close and personal results especially as @Raiderman plans to uograde to an X870e Taichi along with it so I'm looking forward to those results.

If down the road I end up getting a 9950X3D, I'm going to move my 7950X3D into my daughter's rig or upgrade the wife's 12900k rig.

🙂

16 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

What if you disable one of the chiplets and use only the one with the 3D Cashe?

 

Edit. Forgot you had the the vanilla Ryzen🙂

That's exactly what I do. I go into the BIOS and turn off the non X3D chiplet when testing for gaming and sometimes for gaming outright because even with PL and GB, WoW will still drift onto the non-X3D cores and in raids and PvP, that induces an immediate lag spike/stutter.

There is a part of WoW where you fly through a cavern and with both CCDs enabled, it stutters and lags at the very same spot. Enable only the X3D chiplet and there is no lag/stutter in that spot.

I would very much like to see a 9950X3D with 3D cache on both CCDs as the rumors are saying AMD is bringing many refinements and enhancements to the X3D process this time around versus the "slapping it on" with the 5000 and 7000 series.....

.....of course AMD also lead us to believe the 7900XTX was going to have double the count of CUs versus actually only having double the count of FP so we will see (I'm still salty about that lol)