electrosoft

Considering you said your SP99 vs SP108 was fairly close with chiller love (temps rule everything), I am sure you will get amazing results from it too. I'm always curious about the IMC.

Apparently the new Final Fantasy XVI Demo on Steam released on the 19th also is giving some users fits with its shader compiles. I just ran it on my main desktop (7950X3D/4090) and no problems at all. I'll try it on my 14900KS/7900XTX setup later to see how it stacks up against the Wukong fun times. https://store.steampowered.com/app/2738000/FINAL_FANTASY_XVI_DEMO/

Yep, I called the original 4070 the sweet spot and the 4070 Super is the ultra sweet spot. It is a no brainer for someone with a ~$600 budget for a GPU (or what we previously called the flagship pricing years ago....). I keep coming back to it for my SFF build on my charts with the 14900KS...... Depends on the title and consumption requirements. Look at Starfield.... you can see as it gets hungrier they start to separate but for mid to lower tier power requirements they all kinda just end up in the same area for the bigger chips. A 7800X3D would wipe the floor with the 14900k for consumption and beat it overall in gaming (it gets trashed everywhere else). Those results really don't show Intel in the best light even (look at the memory) and it is still winning. I am expecting Ultra 200 series to hopefully bring some heat. The laptop variants are......ok. The top of the line Ultra 9 185 is basically a slightly better 13600k. The 9800X3D will just step right back in and take the top spot......over the 7800X3D but not as massive as YT keep saying because..... ......of this. A properly tuned 13th/14th gen can hold its own with the X3D chips but it takes a level of refinement that normal users aren't going to do nor should they have to do. Intel is the tinkerer's chip as it yields the most results from getting under the hood. AMD has a lot of "set and forget" properties which has their merits. Most users are sitting on air coolers or rando AIOs, using factory thermal paste on the AIO and booting up and going from there with factory defaults. I respect YT channels like Testing Games that present a more realistic "end user" experience but also acknowledge we will never run anything even close to that. When you run an out of the box experience, Intel suffers the worse as it has much more tune-ability. Look at the memory settings. 9950x is running at the 6000 sweet spot while Intel is chugging along at 6000 too. If you want a more realistic AMD vs Intel vs Nvidia channel, I watch Bang4BuckPC Gamer. He tunes his hardware on a CL, and routinely does comparisons with all his hardware (X3D, 14900k, 7900xtx, 4090, etc...). Intel can push the new MC, but it still comes down to MB makers responsibly enforcing it while also allowing advanced users to disable it if they see fit. I am sure we will see a few more BIOS updates fleshing it out. As for the SA Bug, when all is said and done, I am still setting my SA back to 1.18 for 8200 because it works and no need to feed more voltage than required. Of course for benching and testing, I let it run free. 🙂

With the way I tier my profiles based on power requirements for games to boost my clocks and scale, it will quickly show which games are sucking down the most power and require higher tier/lower clock settings on my modest AIO setup. This was the first game I ran into that all my previous auto/lower power tiers crashed. This was even before it could get to any type of shader loading even. Shaders just kicked it up a notch. I had no problems running it on my 4090/7900xtx and 7950x3d/14900ks (post miser power acknowledgement lol). Oh, and happy birthday @Papusan! Hope it was a good one and here's to many more brother! True, but unfortunately joe user isn't going to know what or how to handle it and either refund the game or blame the hardware that might be unstable on many fronts. Me personally? I like tinkering and figuring out wth is going on. 🙂 297w on your setup is serious for a game, yikes. This might be a good wake up call for Intel and to an extend AMD going forward to maybe not push their chips so hard trying to one up each other and get back to static, realistic settings.

I do not have that one. Is it free or is there a demo? With adjustments (using my Y-cruncher/OCCT profile), Wukan works perfectly now. I just didn't know I was going to have to roll out the bigger guns profile to do it but it's understandable. Even thought it pulled only 226w max at 5.6 compiling shaders and running the demo, it still needs 1.31v set (down from 1.32v) and 1.184v under load to run. Hogwarts and Fortnite UE5 worked just fine but Wukan must have some special sauce mixed in. 🤣

Ugh, MSI is supposed to be right up there by Asus in regards to BIOS controls. One thing I can say about Asus is they really do give you the kitchen sink and then some. EVGA was up there too. I always considered MSI next but watching BZ flip around in Gigabyte's BIOS, it seems pretty competent these days too. Asrock is missing a lot of fine/granular controls and I find their FIVR controls a bit lacking. So far, it is Asus and Gigabyte with the ultimate cut off valve for vrout max settings. When it comes to games, I have always run a mix of configs allowing me to scale to the games demands and reap the rewards in clock settings. It lets me really wring out every last bit of performance per game from my chips without trying to implode them. 🙂 What I usually do is when I find a game or stressor I want/need to run, I will then adjust around it and create another profile tier to run. For example, WoW, Starfield and FO76, I can even get away with tuned/dialed in auto and run it up to 6ghz all core if I want but 5.9 is the perfect sweet spot. I could actually probably run FO76 6.1ghz all core most likely. CP2077 I can do 5.8 all core. This Wukan benchmark? I had to go back and use my "big boy" profile at 5.6 which means I'll have to adjust up 5.7 and most likely 5.8 won't run but it might. 5.9 is definitely a pipe dream on my lidded AIO setup. With that being said, I absolutely agree that real world stability is the best as it assures everything will run, but the cost is performance left on the table when a game can run more with less. Did you ever find out what made your monitoring text turn color and what it meant when running this benchmark? I'm curious.

Yeah, the power draw is one thing but having to actually use my Y-cruncher/OCCT profile to get it to run for a game benchmark is crazy. Using my other settings, it would just exit out before it even got to the shaders compiler screen. I'll have to go back in and figure out where 5.7 and 5.8 can get it to run too unless the pull/heat gets a little too much for my modest setup. Glad to know I wasn't seeing things as I tried three times to get my adjusted 66 to then show up on the final results screen. Seems like over on the OCN forums, they have all decided on max everything at 4k, Super Resolution setting of 75 and trying to see how many can break 80fps and by how much. I saw a couple 83fps scores. LOL.... I chuckled nicely at that one. 🙂

It's 66. I don't know why it kept showing 65, but when I went back in and manually set it to 66, it would show 65. I actually did the run *3* times trying to get it to show the 66 I selected! 🙂 Thinking about blocking it? Max everything out and set Super Resolution to 66 to see how it stacks up to @tps3443 and my scores at the same settings.

And here is some AMD 7900XTX runs on the 14900KS. I had to actually bump my Vcore up to 1.32 for 5.6/4.5/5.0 (1.2 under load) to get it to run properly not just with shader compiles but normal use too. This thing is hungry. I think there are going to be a lot of systems that are going to crash/won't run this on launch. This is the same profile I have to run for even small OCCT and Y-cruncher testing. I can pass CB23/CB15 at 1.29 on the new bios and 1.28 (1.152v load) on the old bios. But this thing required the same profile as the ultra hungry stuff. Temps were good though! 🙂 This is why I like having multiple profiles. I can load up 5.9 all core auto tuned for WoW and FO76 and 5.6 as above for any heavy hitting. As for AMD, er, well.... let's just say RT really isn't in the future for them with this game in any meaningful way. Using the same settings as my previous run on the 4090 (and same as @tps3443😞 7900XTX stock + 14900KS fixed 56x/45x/50x RT ON: (Note: this run was the first run and includes shader compiles data in the HWInfo) 7900XTX stock + 14900KS fixed 56x/45x/50x RT OFF:

Pure 100% stock CPU and stock GPU, mem at 6000 only but tuned. IF at stock 2000. So 6fps difference? That's it? Hmmm.... And yeah, the shader compiles are brutal. I'm fishing through various setups on my 14900KS on the AIO to find what works best....7950X3D just shrugged it off and said, "and what?" 🤣

And there goes my tea...... thanks for that. 🤣

Agreed, but sometimes synergistic pairings between software and hardware do pay dividends. Apple comes to mind, love 'em or hate 'em. 🙂 The real problem was when Intel and AMD started to deviate from a monolithic type design and started offering these hybrid designs both in core differentials (P vs E) and core functionality (X3D vs non-X3D) so OSes could no longer just work with a generic scheduler. We're expecting M$ and AMD/Intel to work hand in hand to properly have their CPUs know what and how to prioritize tasks. It has gotten somewhat better since Alderlake and 7950X3D/7900X3D introduction but it will always be a work in progress.....

The main issue is upgrading a system from one CPU to another (IE 7600x to a 7900X3D/7950X3D). I've been using and monitoring core usage for several months now with this 7950X3D and I can say disabling CCD1 for an X3D only box versus running full tilt is the same on a clean install with the newest BIOS and drivers on the x670e carbon. Running Fallout 76, WoW, Starfield, Deux Ex, CP2077 and more, as soon as you're in game, CCD1 is put to sleep and all the load shifts to CCD0. I used Ryzen Master to monitor core usage. I also used Project Lasso for awhile to see if there was a difference and there was not resulting in the same basic effective outcome. I'm not sure what magic was worked from December to now, but there is no more drifting like before. One thing I did do is stop using MSI's chipset drivers and went straight to the source and got them from AMD so that may have helped too. Could have been one of the BIOS updates too as Agesa is constantly updated. There is also the prospect of gamebar updates/refinements on M$ end. I just did a clean install along with the newest BIOS update a few days ago and everything is working right as rain with proper core parking during gaming with the 7950X3D on the MSI x670E carbon. In summary: Clean install with new CPU (newest drivers and BIOS update) = no problems Upgrade CPU from single CCD to dual CCD X3D model but want to keep your current Windows install? Uninstall chipset drivers, clean out driver debris with Revo, reinstall chipset drivers Still got a problem? Toggle Driver for CPPC in BIOS. You can usually toggle back to auto after if you want and it keeps the proper settings.

Nice OC on the IF. Yeah, the sheer amount of power it takes for minimal returns isn't worth it outside of benchmarks. We'll have to see some pics of it in action when it's up to your standards.:)

Welcome to the Desktop brigade Meaker! Time to update the sig. 🙂

Yeah I watched Jay's video yesterday. Final conclusion? 240mm->420mm with everything else being equal results in a ~2w differential and slightly tighter variance at 253w limit even after normalizing temps. If you have the case space and with ~$28USD separating the top and bottom models, go big. If you have a smaller case, you will still get great performance even down to a 240mm. I'd like to see a retest at 320w though....

I like that you think a 12900KS on a Z690 Hero is a "simple gaming rig" 🙂 Simple would be a 12400 on a B660 D4 board heh. But iGPU's are pretty even between the two and if I had to choose, I would go 12900KS too especially with that pricing. I'm tempted to pick up a few and bin them at that price lol. When you get the 12900KS, slap it on the encore and see where the IMC tops out. Now that I have the Lightning and 8400+ sticks in action, I'll be retesting the the 2x 12900k's I have along with the 12400 just to see where they can go on DDR5. On DDR4, the cool hand luke topped out at 4133 on DDR4, the 12900K I delidded topped out at 4000. The 12400 topped out at 3333 (yes, 3333). This 14900KS hit 4200+ on it. Good test and more importantly, it uses UE5 engine which many games will be using going forward. 4k even dropping the settings down still brings the 4090 to its knees with 69fps native and renders everything else sub 60fps yikes. That's without RT....

Well, they have 15 of them available at that price so hopefully the one they send you is a good bin. And yeah, for that price? You're not going to go much better elsewhere. ~$268 + tax shipped for a 12900KS is pretty nice. Something to keep in mind if you're contemplating an AMD build is the 7600x which trades blows with the 12900K and can be had for a tad cheaper but only has half the threads but has a good iGPU too: Timestamped at overall average but take into consideration if you're going iGPU as a priority. On the other hand, if you want to max OC a 12900k....lol

Well yeah, then you wouldn't be the @Papusan we all know and love! (minus the Crocs of course 🙂 )

There's zero downside to a bug/defect being fixed even if the benefits aren't realized due to personal use cases. But for myself, I can now start dabbling with 8600-8800 along with tighten up at 8400 without the system crashing due to insufficient SA. I couldn't do that before 0x129. Will I run anything like this D2D in the SFF? No. It will now be a tight 8200 vs 8000 for that to keeps temps in check but always better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. But I get where you're coming from. 🙂 "Hey look, the new model comes with 8 cup holders!" "But there will be, at most, only two of us in the car" "Maybe we'll have 4 drinks each one day and...." "...."

It's the final vs beta one previously but yeah, that 9000 series TDP is gonna rock my world!😅 Everything updated, fresh, meticulous, clean install. All hardware tested and verified.....let's go! With all the issues and problems out there, nowhere did I even imagine the SA Bug would be one of the blessings of 0x129. Everything is looking good! Now that you've had it for a bit, what is your opinion of the DD EK AIO?

@Raiderman I always say, when I want a new BIOS to drop, all I have to do is install the most recent.... 🙂 https://download.msi.com/bos_exe/mb/7D70v1J.zip Luckily, the system recert was still taking place so I updated to this one and back to testing my dialed in timings on mem and other subsystems before a clean install tonight across the board.

You absolutely extracted every ounce of value out of your P870 in every way possible. It had a good life. 🙂 The new SFF is looking good! For my in progress portable SFF buildout, I'm thinking a 4070 Super is the absolute sweet spot (or a heavily discounted 4070).

I figured with the 9600x/9700x results the 9950x wasn't going to bring much to the table. Refinements without performance advancements is this generation. Now we're talking.... 🤣 --- Rumors are of a dual X3D CCD design for the 9950X3D, but I'm just not seeing that happening. If we get a 9950X3D like the 7950X3D, that is a massive pass. This generation is all about refinements and a new node. This is the ultimate tick using Intel methodology. Hopefully the next tock is meaningful on this new fab. Honestly, they could have just named these 8600x, 8700x, 8850x and save the odd numbering for major uplift/changes as there just isn't much of anything there outside of the new fab and a touch of uplift maybe. I'll need to see some locked clock for clock testing to draw a final conclusion. Crap on the 7900xtx all you want, but it is 30-40% faster than the 6950xt overall. But this? Meh. (Back to tuning the 7950X3D and 14900KS for WoW Xpac comparisons with my 7900xtx and 4090 while I wait for Arrow Lake)

You knew deep in your heart you wanted the 4090 from the jump.... how you convinced yourself a 4080 Super was good enough is beyond me! 🤣