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electrosoft

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Everything posted by electrosoft

  1. electrosoft
    Like Intel, AMD knows the mobile market is still the largest growth vector and BGA is everywhere and very profitable on many levels to the detriment of those who want flexibility, upgrade ability and real cooling and powerful chassis. As someone who runs multiple variants of Linux, I cringe when I see anything integrated hardware wise that even has a whiff of proprietary M$. I do like that they said AM5 will have a very long socket shelf life. One thing you can't deny is AMD extracted everything out of their previous socket and you have very old systems being able to drop in a 5800X3D and have an immediate and massive upgrade. It seems AMD has hit a wall with 16 cores but at least we're getting real cores and not this hybrid from Intel. It comes down to will the IPC and clock uplift of 7000 outduel the additional 8 E-Snores with RPL along with the cache upgrades and architectural refinements. I suspect Intel will still retain the overall IPC crown on P-Cores. No surprise it beats the 12900k by 31% on MT loads as even the 12900k barely outclassed the 5950x in MT loads. I was overall impressed with AMDs new offerings and if they hold true (remember we're seeing a presentation presenting their 7000 series in the best light), they will be worthy contenders at lower TDP albeit that has been officially raised to 170w now (vs Intel 241w) but in real world usage and overclocking? All that will fly right out the window. As for overclocking, I worked with PBO and CO for a bit before tossing it out the window and just overclocking using a traditional approach on my 5800X since PBO and CO were entirely too dependent on the type of load and had clocks all over the place including in games where you would shoot up to 5ghz and then throttle down to 4.4ghz in some situations. I preferred a fixed OC based on vcore and heat management. If Intel delivers on HEDT (fingers crossed), I don't think AMD can ignore that (or they can to their own detriment).
  2. electrosoft
    Updated the launch page with a link to drivers, thanks!
  3. electrosoft
    Definitely looking at some delid/relid numbers but more importantly a flatter and ever so slightly taller IHS and results. 💪
  4. electrosoft
    Agreed, I am perplexed why they neutered it so badly knowing a similar design PL like Intel would basically afford it all the headroom it needs to run at stock. That laptop with a full 125w PL or even 150w and the 5950x would smoke every laptop out there for multi. It can't touch the NHJ for single and 12th though even if full powered. Nothing can touch 12th gen right now. As it stands now, if you're in the market for the best multi performance in a true desktop CPU the NHJ is top dog for a 15.6" form factor and the X170SM/KM for 17.3".
  5. electrosoft
    If the 5950x is working within spec and not subject to thermal throttling it will decimate the 10900k in multi and be darn close if not better in single but it won't because it is physically capped at 88w (yikes). Here is a run on my X170SM-G with a 10900k running at stock tuned no overclock on anything. The problem with the AMD laptop from XMG is the hardware is physically capped at 88w which limits the scores. That means the 5950x in it scores roughly the same as a stock 10900k (~16500k). Tuning the curve (which isn't a real OC as it is subject to load variants) nets. They even warn you the 5950x is not recommended for that model and you can see why. It will put an absolute pounding on its VRMs pushing them to max/cap under load everytime. The max somewhat realistic chip for it is the 5900x which will give you less than 10900k stock performance. The best chip for it is the 5600x IMHO. They won't even offer a 5800X3D because it runs too hot and heavy for that chassis. Again, the problem is the physical hardware limitations of an 88w cap. That just is a deal breaker in every aspect. Even Clevo's new 15.6" Socket 1700 laptop has a cap current cap of 125w and that is BIOS limited. It will probably open up to 150w max. Even XMG recommends only a specific range of CPUs: ----------------------------------------------- Recommendations Our recommended CPUs for XMG APEX 15 MAX include: AMD Ryzen 5 5600X desktop CPU | 6 cores/12 threads | 32 MB cache | max 88 W PPT AMD Ryzen 7 5700X desktop CPU | 8 cores/16 threads | 32 MB cache | max 88 W PPT AMD Ryzen 9 5900X desktop CPU | 12 cores/24 threads | 64 MB cache | max 88 W PPT (ECO Mode) The best price/performance ratio is arguably in the AMD Ryzen 7 5700X. AMD Ryzen 9 5950X is not recommended in XMG APEX 15 MAX unless the user is willing to manually adjust frequency/voltage curve and other manual optimizations in AMD Ryzen Master. Results might be prone to silicon lottery. XMG will not guarantee specific performance results. System stability is only guaranteed when system runs at factory defaults, including the 4 performance profiles in Control Center: Power Saving, Quiet, Entertainment & Performance." -------------------------------------------------------
  6. electrosoft
    Yep, 23k at 140w for the 12900hx vs 24k at 125w for a 12900k is a massive difference especially considering they pulled out all the stops with the vapor chamber and liquid metal to boot.
  7. electrosoft
    So it looks like Eurocom (as expected) as a customized BIOS version but PCS does too? Is there a "stock" Clevo version out there for comparison? 12600 is behaving exactly as expected especially after @win32asmguy's preliminary 12900 findings. XTU might be auto rejecting the H series chipset whereas TS takes a, "come at me bro" approach. Eurocom does tend to be a little more open with the BIOS than other companies at default Hopefully Prema can get in there and work a little majick for you. And yeah....Asus went HAM on the Strix Scar 12900HX full vapor chamber, liquid metal on both and k5 Pro aux applications. If money were no object and I could stomach a high end BGA CPU system, that would be it.
  8. electrosoft
    Nail in the coffin for anyone contemplating a KPE 3090ti and expecting/wanting a block for it from EVGA:
  9. electrosoft
    Nice overview and comparison to the original KPE 3090 board. With the 4000 series slated to be released by F2022, this may be a non starter.
  10. electrosoft
    Arctic's issue has been and will continue to be the convenience and downfall of an integrated pump control but even compared against my EVGA CLC 280 and 360 it wasn't a stand out winner but it is much quieter under load and responds better to lower rpm fans than the EVGA due to its thicker fin stacks. You might be at a point where building out a basic custom loop just for the CPU will yield you optimal results. It is what I'm going to do next time around just for the CPU with a 360mm or 420mm, D5, flexible tubing and QDCs. Once in place, it should be superior to any AIO on the market and not too expensive. I already picked up a 360mm rad that's sitting on the shelf that's 20 fpi rated and looks competent enough for an initial build out.
  11. electrosoft
    Finally a "final boss" version of the 12950HX chip Asus Strix Scar 17 SE is a monster with the 12950HX chip: CB23 = 22918 pulling 140w with no throttling. Full vapor chamber for CPU and GPU and liquid metal on both. Looks like they're using K5 Pro too.
  12. electrosoft
    The memory modules are new, some of the boards have been redesigned to handle more pull and heat and many have new cooler designs that are bigger and beefier. What was previously select "binned" chips for a select list of models are now the core basis for the 6950xt too but yeah I get it.
  13. electrosoft
    Agreed, plus it depends on your criteria and where you plant yourself in upgrade cycles. For example if you've been a, "I'll get a K|NGP|N and that's that," knowing you have the best EVGA has to offer for that generation and ride it to the next generation; well now you had your world upended as EVGA for the first time will have two different KPE models within the same generation to reflect Nvidia for the first time quite a long time having been pushed to the wall with AMD breathing down their necks with rasterization performance that is trading blows with the 3090 AND 3090ti depending on titles and resolution. Now we see reports of Nvidia doing the same shenanigans and releasing "close but no cigar" to their top silicon next gen 4090 and if you want the best of the best then you will have to wait for eventual 4090ti and THEN wait even longer for EVGA's KPE 4090ti unless EVGA is comfortable releasing 2x KPEs again which means if it were me I would wait till the very end of the cycle and upgrade to the best again.... .....or you just upgrade each (or every other) cycle to the x080 model. Or money is no object and in the moment you buy the best regardless of what's coming up because you're a Rockerfeller and that's how you roll..... Say what you want about AMD but they didn't hold anything back from the jump.
  14. electrosoft
    I didn't realize the shroud on the KPE 3090ti was going to be solid metal for the first time. This should look sleek and ergonomically pleasing...
  15. electrosoft
    Absolutely fantastic post bro! Definitely some classic Clevo inconsistencies as always. Looking forward to the thermal testing and scores both CPU and GPU.
  16. electrosoft
    One thing I will give Eurocom credit for is they do continue to offer complete GPU upgrades when they are available including everything you need from the proper BIOS to the screws, heatsink, thermal pads and of course the card itself.
  17. electrosoft
    Socket should be a quick fix with a mechanical pencil or sewing needle (my preferred tools for fixing bent pins). I know on my X170SM-G I ended up replacing the screws with another set that fixed a pairing issue. The back corner of my bottom cover was loose too like it had become loose. I just left it but a touch of super glue would tighten it back up Sounds like a fun project, keep us up to date on the enhancements!
  18. electrosoft
    Awesome! Glad to see it made it safe and sound. Make sure to post some pics and results bro. 💪
  19. electrosoft
    IIRC, You will need to potentially dremel down a small section of the original heatsink to make it fit properly. Maybe 1" to 1.5" section but I do know Eurocom offers a compatible heatsink to match their GPU upgrades. Are you getting your heatsink from them too?
  20. electrosoft
    Watching Biso Biso work some fun times with his EVGA KP 3090 TI:
  21. electrosoft
    Unfortunately this is very true...
  22. electrosoft
    The problem is your binning criteria is going to be different than a traditional binning process so you will need to ask potential sellers if they can at least do a pure auto run at stock or if it is a 12900ks seller adjust their core clocks down to match a 12900k. Maybe see if they are willing to lock in long and short 125w PLs which will automatically lock in and limit both 12900k and 12900ks chips and give them a CB23 run to get an idea of their scores at that 125w PL. Thermal characteristics vary by cooling mechanisms but anyone who has a 12900k on their desktop will be able to cool it easily at PL125w taking heat out of the equation. You are looking for a 12900k/12900ks (At PL125w they are basically equal in regards to this testing criteria) that runs exceptionally low pull and less leaky in a specific PL125 window. This means normal binning procedures may not apply. Like the 12900ks I had which was an SP94 and was definitely better than my SP91 12900k >=5.3 but couldn't touch it when you were looking for a low pull / less heat. No matter what I did ~175w was the lowest it would go at 4.9. Leaky chips also come into play as some will throw out more heat than others at that PL125w window. To put my 12900k in perspective. That same 180w cooler when running CB23 with a 12100f heated up to ~60c pulling 65w yet my 12900k only heated up to 65c pulling 125w with 2x the P cores and 8 e cores but it is well known 12100f's are garbage bins because they can be because they're 4/8 P-cores only and even bad bins can be cooled by ok air coolers. Luckily, you already have the laptop which is the ultimate test bed. Pick up a few more 12900k's and pop them in and start differentiating one 12900k from the others and documenting the differences. Start with pure stock and jump to a -0.050uV and continue down in -0.020uV intervals. When it finally fails/BSODs back off to the previous interval and have it pass multiple runs of CB23 and other stressors to lock it in. If you're going to set up a desktop test bed I'd suggest at least an Asus Z690-A Prime or Strix D4 at the min so you can at least get the SP rating to go along with your testing. You can further simulate a limited environment by going with a cooler like this which is rated right around 125w (ish) or similar: https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-L9x65-Premium-Low-Profile-Cooler/dp/B00VB3Y89E/ref=asc_df_B00VB3Y89E/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309776868400&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1157509063284803367&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003918&hvtargid=pla-386303669508&psc=1
  23. electrosoft
    I suspect the 12600 will run into the exact same issues as the 12900 as a non-k bin I would not be happy if Clevo isn't giving full W10 support but there might be a way to get it to work hopefully. Yeah, I binned multiple chips. 1x Amazon, 1x Newegg, 3x Best Buy, 1x an Alienware OEM. All binned and tested in my Strix Z690 D4. The Newegg chip was the best of the bunch. It ran well enough that I even sold off an SP94 12900ks at cost to a buddy as on the top end for day to day it only ran 1 bin higher (5.2 vs 5.1). Both could do 5.3 all core (KS did it at ~30w less though) and both turned into uncontrollable monsters at 5.4 pulling 330w+ which overpowered my AIO. This SP91 from Newegg was the clear winner hands down. Setting even the 12900ks to stock 12900k clocks, it couldn't touch this SP91 and required 175w when dialed in vs the 155-162w on this SP91 12900k. I think I even mentioned it in the Desktop thread on the old forums when I was binning this one the first thing that popped into my head was, "Damn I wish Clevo was making a 12th gen laptop. This chip is golden for that form factor." And I'll take 90% desktop performance in that form factor all day. In an X170 / P870 style chassis this chip would blaze and run full tilt with the 200w PL and heatsink in those monsters.
  24. electrosoft
    For your thermal limits (PL125 / PL150) a NH-D15S is more than sufficient. I just finished swapping everything over to my mentioned hardware above to test and the 180w single fan aluminum air cooler I listed above was more than sufficient for testing and never broke ~65c. As for testing, locking in a PL of 125w and everything on auto no uV or LL calibrations resulted in a CB23 score of 24056 and a max temp of 65c which beats HWU 12900k same motherboard and test by ~1000 points as it is giving a little more punch at the same power threshold. Playing a bit with LLC, since PL is locked you don't get a dynamic trade off and greater Vdroop = lower scores. So it looks like at least a somewhat optimal score for a PL125 lock would be ~24k which is only ~3k off of a normal 12900k running stock. The cores were clocking in around 4.3-4.4 on average running @ PL125.
  25. electrosoft
    I was wondering how the fans worked/sounded under normal use. The poor X170KM had so much against it from super hot 11900k chips to a less than optimized cooling system to a locked down BIOS and more. I said it in the other forums, but going from a Prema enabled, hardware modded X170SM-G to the KM was an exercise in frustration getting the 11900k to run full tilt which I did get going with no throttling but relying on CCC was nails on the chalkboard. The 12900k locked in at PL 125w should/could produce a CB23 score of a low of ~18810 up to ~23000 if thermal constraints aren't an issue and depending on sample. This is from a review of budget boards from HWU and you can see the range of scores achieved (VRM temps pictured) after ~1hr CB23 so you are definitely in the ballpark for PL1 limits: The board I have is the Asrock B660 Pro RS which definitely enforces 125w limits. The air cooler installed is this model with a 180w TDP. Right now it is keeping a 12100f(65w) ice cold: http://www.idcooling.com/Product/detail/id/276/name/SE-214-XT ARGB I'm trying to get a window of time to swap it over and test. I had the 12100f system up for sale but I took it down just so I could run these tests before putting it back up The only problem is reproducing any potential thermal constraints since at PL 125w you are seeing some thermal issues. If you do pick up another (unless they're near identical silicon) you will immediately see a potential difference using stock and then matching uV steppings.
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