*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Papusan]

51 minutes ago, ryan said:

but what if nvidia drops a bomb and the 4090ti is like 30 percent faster. like when does greed end

No in hell 11% more Cuda cores could make this differnce. Even faster vRam wouldn't help. With the high power efficiency for 4000 series, slightly higher TGP for a TI won't help much. Please do the math between the cut down and the full silicon.

 

 

I really like this video. @Mr. Foxour old friend, the salesman Azor is a big part of this video😀 Maybe it smells a bit of conspiracy, but damn close to reality. Enjoy, and please see the whole video🙂 Worth every second.

 

 

4070 Ti looks more as a old xx60 series card due castrated mem bus, LOOL

[ryan]

sorry papusan I don't know anything about the 4090ti havent stumbled on info. yeah if its a bump of like 10 percent it wont be worth it unless your a pro overclocker

[Mr. Fox]

14 minutes ago, ryan said:

sorry papusan I don't know anything about the 4090ti havent stumbled on info. yeah if its a bump of like 10 percent it wont be worth it unless your a pro overclocker

If you're a real pro overclocker, (or a reviewer shill,) then you'll get cherry-picked parts, and sometimes for free from your sponsors, before any of the pions can buy them. If you're a pion it is predestined and there is nothing you can do about it. You are not "special" and you haven't been selected for the anointing. You'll have the privilege of paying top-dollar for the chance to roll the dice in the silicon lottery.

 

It is a lot like a pre-arranged boxing match except that you don't get paid to lose when it is your turn to be the loser and someone else is chosen to play the part of the winner. You're just a loser funding the sport with your own money, and nobody is rooting for you because you are a nobody. If you get lucky and land a knock-out punch and take down one of the champs, then you are accused of cheating or your legit victory gets dismissed as a fluke that is declared to not be a valid win. It can't be, because you were not chosen and didn't have the blessing of the ringmaster.

 

Ain't that right, Brother @johnksss?

[electrosoft]

7 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

That looks really nice. I have liked that case since the first time I saw it. It looks great. The only thing that holds me back from buying one is the limited space at the top. I have been tempted multiple times, but I remind myself that I have the same issue with the 5000D Airflow.

 

I do not understand why the stupid people that design enthusiast and gamer focused PC cases cannot see how detrimental it is to limit that space in such an idiotic way. If someone is worried about it being "too big" they would not be looking at a full tower case. I find that not being able to install a fat 360mm+ radiator under the top panel sandwiched between fans in push/pull and still having plenty of space for reaching in to connect fan, RGB and EPS cables with ease is just inexcusable from a design standpoint. But, it seems to be a very common lack of intelligence among many brands and models.

 

Agreed. One thing I like about my old Corsair 540 is the extra top space and it is a mid size cube. It is one reason I still kept it after the KPE 3090 wouldn't fit is because it is so easy to work within.

 

When I buy a monstrous full tower, I'd like at least 1-2" more in the back and on top. You've already committed to a monster size form factor. Why not make it deeper and taller clearance?

 

4 hours ago, Ashtrix said:

RTX 4080 12GB - Rebrand a.k.a RTX 4070Ti is getting some flak which is not surprising because overall financials around the planet. I'm glad that some of these reviewers are calling the BS out otherwise they were fine with extreme Nvidia price rises for that 4090 - Full die 3090Ti is costing $1000, while the cut die 4090 at $1500+, while price matching to the outdated mining priced overpriced rubbish 3090 (which is 100% price increase over 3080 for less than 20% gain) is not accurate, nobody mentions this in 4090 and they say it's 3090 mining price and good value BS.

 

 

 

 

Nvidia MSRP for 3090 was $1499.99 before there was the mining and crypto boom. 3090ti was $1999.99 at launch too. In comparison to the 4090 (and to an extent the 4080) that inventory glut of high end Ampere cards had no choice but to drop in price as it was nearing its EOL with ADL on the horizon but the 4090 pricing is based on 3090 MSRP pricing. For those who paid $2k+ (including myself) for a 3090ti I salute you. 🙂

 

 

Launch pricing:

 

2nd tier

-------------------------

980.........$549.99

1080.......$599.99

2080.......$799.99

3080.......$699.99  (This was so out of character for Nvidia. Maybe fear of AMD and RDNA2?)

4080.......$1199.99 (Jensenmania full overdrive engaged)

 

Halo

--------------------------

980ti.........$649.99

1080ti........$699.99

2080ti.......$999.99 (Jensemania activated)

3090.........$1499.99 (Jensenmania full overdrive mode)

3090ti.......$1999.99 (Still high on the Pandocrypto)

4090.........$1599.99 (Jensenmania in low power mode)

4090ti........$1999.99?

 

21 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

So answer me this..... If cryptodicking is really down, who TF is buying all the GPU's? Is it scalpers? If it is, are any of the retailers going to curtail this? This is stupid. Are the days gone when you felt you needed an upgrade, then going to your favorite reseller site, and buying on that day? At this rate, I may never get another card, unless it is a lower tier card. If its scalpers causing the shortage, this is worse than it was 4 years ago, at least you could find something at MSRP.

 

11 minutes ago, cylix said:

Normal people that because of the crypto scalper market are normalized to this prices. This is the new normal sadly and i dont think the situation will change anymore, we will have to live with this prices from now on. Lowcards will be 600 usd, middle tier  around 1k and high one around 1300 1500 and a no comprise one like 4090 Ti at 2k

I'm sure Nvidia has run pricing model after model after model and now realizes what some are willing to pay.

 

Even in this small, fireside chat group we keep here we've had 3 (now 4) buy 4090s with a few on the fence who will eventually bite. We know it...they know it....we're just waiting for the ball to drop. 🙂

 

I've lost count how many posts and reviews I've read elsewhere basically saying, "I wanted a 4090 but couldn't find any in stock so I settled on a 4080." I almost did the same thing.

 

Within that group you have a subset who are using a 4080 to tide them over till they can get a 4090.

 

I managed to hold out a little over 2 months and finally succumbed for a few reasons:

 

A> The initial 4090 I wanted (Suprim X Liquid) popped up and I was able to grab it

B> Lackluster 7900xtx results a few weeks ago running some tests on the PC 7900xtx (followed up with XFX testing)

C> Seeing how close the 4080 and 7900xtx are in tests

D> I was able to sell my KPE 3090ti and get back everything I paid into it.

 

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

You won't see a 4090Ti at 2k😎But xx90 is the only new card without screwed up price point vs 3000 series cards. Price increase is below inflation. Can't beat that😀

 

24 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

The problem is that there is no sensible reference point, since past two years were shrouded in the crypto mining distortion field. Applying inflation to a meaningless number doesn't achieve much. The street price of the 3090 Ti collapsed around 50% in what? 9 months? Has the market reached the bottom? Unlikely, the only direction is down in the gaming sector. Once the premium on early adopters and enthusiasts has been reaped, Nvidia will reduce the price of the current line to reach the rest of potential customers and introduce the 4090Ti at a price tempting enough to induce a second harvest 🙂 (ca. $2k, perhaps not even would be my guess).

 

Sensible is subjective. Only thing that matters is market conditions and supply/demand. Nvidia will continue to push prices upward and sell as long as they have enough buyers. Even removing the crypto mining distortion field, Nvidia was steadily increasing prices (see above) and raking in profits. All the crypto mining phase did was push prices to 3k+ for 3090s and 2k+ for 3080s. Now we're back to our regular schedule program and the MSRP on the 4090 is in line with the 3090 which was a massive jump over the 2080ti which was also a substantial jump over the 1080ti.

 

Applying CPI numbers is meaningful as it allows you to evaluate price hikes in context (where does inflation end and profiteering begin?). MSRP is meaningful and valid and has been set for the last previous 4 cycles for comparison for all the top end models at least usually dictated by FE pricing.

 

3090ti is a bad example to use due to its introduction timeline, pricing and changing market conditions. You can't continue to use that as an example and apply it to somehow Nvidia is going to reverse the trend they've implemented over the last three product cycles. Nvidia tried for a massive money grab end cycle with the 4000 series right around the corner banking on the Cryptodemic sustaining a bit longer and fell flat on their face and had tons of Ampere inventory to now move which they wrote down to $1499 then $1399 and eventually $1099 because it price wise made no sense with the upcoming 4000 stack coming to market. You can't continue to charge $2000 for a card that gets beat by a $1200 card and gets destroyed by a $1500 card.

 

Ampere MSRP pricing for the 3090 and 3080 was announced before any of the outlier conditions of the past few years were even here.

 

This time around we had what turned out to be a not so bad (relatively speaking) jump in the 4090 which actually makes sense in a warped kind of way and then you now have Nvidia trying to shift the lower product stack pricing up to reflect the 3 generations constant price hikes of the top dog products.

 

I do agree with you depending on if/when the 4090ti lands Nvidia will initially offer it at a sky high price then adjust accordingly. If it comes 6 months before the 5000 series I can definitely see an adjustment downward across the top end stack to make room. If it comes sooner than later, they will just slot it in at $1999.99+ for awhile and business as usually until AMD either responds (giggle) or 5000 series is close to launch then adjust accordingly based upon sales figures.

 

In an ideal world, I'd like to see summer roll around and AMD and Nvidia having had to slash all their prices due to many factors including GPU fatigue and the looming recession which is gaining speed. It will be curious to see how it plays out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[electrosoft]

7 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

One more added to the list... based on the benchmarks, at least in this video, the 7900 XTX doesn't really offer much benefit over the 7900 XT (in some cases less to offer) and the 4070 Ti appears to be a closer match to the 7900 XT/XTX performance than the 7900XT/XTX is to matching the 4080 FE.

 

It is interesting that we don't see comparisons to 3090 because the difference between 3090 and 3090 Ti is too small to matter and the 3090 Ti is/was nearly irrelevant in terms of market share. The bottom line is, if you own a 3090 or 3090 Ti, there is no point in spending any money whatsoever on a GPU upgrade for gaming. There is nothing to be gained from it for gaming. Gaining 10 or 15 FPS when you are already north of 100 FPS for $800 to $1000 is truly idiotic.

 

If you want to run benchmarks and legitimately feel like you are benefitting from spending a buttload of money, then the only real option for a 3090/3090Ti owner is to blow a significant portion of your monthly income (more than what is disposable income for most people) on a 4090.

 

If you own something less than a 3080, then any of these GPUs are a legit but overpriced upgrade.

 

It is unfortunate that we don't see any AIB options for NVIDIA GPUs with 3 or 4 of the legacy 8-pin power connectors. I don't want an AMD GPU, but I like the fact that they did not adopt the new 12-pin cable.

 

 

Summed up perfectly.

 

3090/3090ti = Get a 4090 or just ride it out till 5000 series

3080/3080ti = Get a 4090 or maybe a 4080 (especially 10gb model) or just ride it out till 5000 series

 

Anything below the 3080 your options start to open up nicely as to what constitutes a meaningful upgrade.

 

7900xt/xtx? Having worked with it late yesterday and today some more swapping back and forth between two installs and comparing it to even the 3080 in both FO76 and WoW? It is most definitely going back to Best Buy next week. Even if I didn't have a 4090 coming in I would be returning it. I would pick a 4080 over the 7900xtx everyday of the week.If you have something under a 3080 it does start to have value though but the fact it is basically equal to a 3080 in WoW with RT on and is only ~30% faster than the 3080 10GB in FO76 has now officially made it DOA to me.

 

I will say though that if you're an AMD fan and bent on getting an AMD card, the XFX Merc 7900xtx is about as good as it gets for cooling, build quality and performance. The temps are fantastic and like I previously said, fans never even get to 40% under full load and hot spot stays nice and cool(ish). 🙂

 

I'm glad I had a chance to remotely work and see the PC 7900xtx in action and I don't regret picking up an actual beefier model to run my own tests but I am just so disappointed with AMD this time around. I feel like HUB when they basically said to find the additional $200 and get a 4080 over the 7900xtx.

 

 

[tps3443]

Koolance QD3 Quick release fittings. Well worth the money!!! I wish I would have ran these sooner. I’m getting more of these for sure! They are just amazing. 

 

 

[Papusan]

17 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Even with the front glass off while running TS I had to get up and search to find any coil

Weird designed full tower where you can't have a real thick radiator in the top roof. I can even put a thick radiator on top roof in my sons new case. And that case ain't big. 

 

58 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

If you're a real pro overclocker, (or a reviewer shill,) then you'll get cherry-picked parts, and sometimes for free from your sponsors, before any of the pions can buy them. If you're a pion it is predestined and there is nothing you can do about it. You are not "special" and you haven't been selected for the anointing. You'll have the privilege of paying top-dollar for the chance to roll the dice in the silicon lottery.

 

It is a lot like a pre-arranged boxing match except that you don't get paid to lose when it is your turn to be the loser and someone else is chosen to play the part of the winner. You're just a loser funding the sport with your own money, and nobody is rooting for you because you are a nobody. If you get lucky and land a knock-out punch and take down one of the champs, then you are accused of cheating or your legit victory gets dismissed as a fluke that is declared to not be a valid win. It can't be, because you were not chosen and didn't have the blessing of the ringmaster.

 

Ain't that right, Brother @johnksss?

You forgot add in custom made firmware where they also get the signing keys in hands to tune Sbios/vBios further with help of specialiced persons on this field (only for the very few). They even provide special treatments for PSUs (yep, even custom firmware for the power adapter).

[Raiderman]

4 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

I'm glad I had a chance to remotely work and see the PC 7900xtx in action and I don't regret picking up an actual beefier model to run my own tests but I am just so disappointed with AMD this time around. I feel like HUB when they basically said to find the additional $200 and get a 4080 over the 7900xtx

 

 

So the added FPS with ray tracing enabled is worth $200 extra? Every test I have seen the 4080 is quite a bit slower in rasterization than the xtx. Just curious, because ray tracing was really only a gimmick when first introduced, Has that changed? Does it make much of a difference?

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Sensible is subjective. Only thing that matters is market conditions and supply/demand.MSRP on the 4090 is in line with the 3090 which was a massive jump over the 2080ti which was also a substantial jump over the 1080ti.

 

Well, to a point. Common sense dictates that using super-distorted GPU prices (autoscalped MSRP/street prices, whatever) between Dec 2020 and Apr 2022 is clearly not sensible. RTX 3090 Ti was introduced at $2k amidst the bubble and promptly collapsed in value. 

 

Now, 3090 was a quantum leap over the 2080 Ti. Over 2x the amount of next gen VRAM (a significant component of the price, surely), 50% more bandwidth. 2.5x more compute performance. 

 

The 4090 offers a similar jump in terms of compute over 3090, but the memory is roughly static (same size, +15% bandwidth). Worth noting that the dollar is significantly stronger than it was in Oct 2020, which normally should push the prices of imported goods (a minor part of the US CPI) down. Of course, Nvidia is anything but normal.

 

The truth is that they don't care about gamers that much these days - just go to their website, the gaming section is still there but kind of dwarfed by all the other stuff going on. Their gaming revenue has been collapsing for the past quarters, in start contrast to the datacentre business. They can afford to autoscalp, because they push so much silicon to the enterprise they can throw what's left of the AL stock to the early adopters at elevated prices. This bonanza might not last either, because a. there aren't enough enthusiasts with ca. $2k lying around to spend for fun and b. the tech sector is not doing particularly well either.  Things should normalize soon, unless the geopolitical landscape deteriorates further.

 

Obviously, I'm not saying anyone who can afford to drop $2k on a gaming video card shouldn't do it - YOLO, just no need to try and rationalize the spend really. In the end, what? $300-500 bucks extra in NVidia's pocket is hardly a big deal (pocket change for quite a few here I'm sure), particularly given that the world as we know it could come to an end soon! All there is to say regarding the pricing (if anything) is "Sorry, I can't/don't want to wait, take the money, well played Jensen". 

[Mr. Fox]

20 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

So the added FPS with ray tracing enabled is worth $200 extra? Every test I have seen the 4080 is quite a bit slower in rasterization than the xtx. Just curious, because ray tracing was really only a gimmick when first introduced, Has that changed? Does it make much of a difference?

Yeah, it has changed. It's not required, but it does improve game graphics quality and lends a higher sense of realism. If you're not into that, or you're not into gaming, then it doesn't matter. If you're primarily a Linux user then you are better off with an AMD GPU. Recent kernel misbehave badly with NVIDIA GPU for some weird reason.

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

I really like this video. @Mr. Foxour old friend, the salesman Azor is a big part of this video😀 Maybe it smells a bit of conspiracy, but damn close to reality. Enjoy, and please see the whole video🙂 Worth every second.

 

 

Definitely a bit suspect (as mentioned earlier, would be funny if FTC caught wind of something there) but that is serious stuff - potential felony charges, so would they take the risk? Jensen really doesn't have to.

[Reciever]

3 hours ago, jcordero said:

When building the most high end desktop (liquid cooling, RTX 4090/A5000, i9 13900k/AMD EPYC, etc) possible that will last you a long time, what do you look for in each of its components (motherboard, power supply, cooler, etc.) when choosing what to buy?

The single most important to any build, especially if you intend to keep the PC for a prolonged duration is undoubtedly going to be its heart. The power supply.

 

Everything else depends what you intend to use the PC for, as that tends to dictate what components you are looking at.

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

You forgot add in custom made firmware where they also get the signing keys in hands to tune Sbios/vBios further with help of specialiced persons on this field (only for the very few). They even provide special treatments for PSUs (yep, even custom firmware for the power adapter).

Good points. Forgot about the hulk signing scam thing. 

[electrosoft]

20 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

So the added FPS with ray tracing enabled is worth $200 extra? Every test I have seen the 4080 is quite a bit slower in rasterization than the xtx. Just curious, because ray tracing was really only a gimmick when first introduced, Has that changed? Does it make much of a difference?

 

I'm not sure what tests you're looking at in regards to rasterization of the 7900xtx vs the 4080 but it will come down to the games specifically in many cases but here was HUBs 50+ game 1440p and 4k shootout:

 

 

7900 XTX is 1% slower in 1440p and 1% faster in 4k overall. What I like most about this comprehensive shoot out is the inclusion of raster and RT along with such a wide range of games. You can find the game(s) you play and get an idea if they happen to be on this chart.

 

For example, if you play CoD MW II, a 7900xtx is a very compelling choice. On the other hand if you're all about Metro Exodus....

 

Not sure why they included CP2077 but not RT enabled. Their few RT inclusions were hand picked which I did not like. They would have done a better presentation to present a pure raster chart and a pure RT chart for clarity.

 

But even looking at their range of games tested and the massive potential percent difference (from +42% for the 7900xtx to -39% for the 4080) It will come down to the applications/games used but lets take RT out of the equation for WoW. 7900xtx is only ~26% faster than a 3080 10GB with RT disabled. To me, that isn't worth the upgrade as it doesn't get me where I want to go even in rasterization vs a 3080 10GB.

 

RT is important to me especially in the newer Dragon Isles content as it is much more front and center. 4080 would have been >100fps vs ~76fps on the 7900xtx but more importantly those .01 and 1 lows would not have been nearly as bad. Having seen and played on a 4090 in WoW, I'd estimate the 4080 would be hitting around 110-120fps on average with RT enabled.

 

I even did a clean install of W11 on another drive to give the 7900XTX its own complete, fresh, clean environment and performance was basically the same to the W10 DDU install (Score 1 for DDU).

 

My base objective is 100fps avg everywhere (higher is better) on my 144hz display and no crazy 1% or .01% lows where I would also like to see at least >100fps so even if it dips down it won't really be noticeable to me. 3080 10GB = ~97fps vs 7900XTX = ~122fps average with RT off. Turn RT on and both cards are right around ~76fps with dips even lower. Even if I was running with RT off, it wouldn't be worth the price paid (and that was with a 10% off code so $1079.99 + tax, free shipping).

 

While actually playing with the 7900xtx today it was the same "ugh" moments as the 3080 when you hit those problematic dips with RT on just not quite as bad as the .01 and 1 lows are a smidge better.

 

4090 will be here next week and having already seen a Suprim X 4090 air cooled model in action with WoW on my bud's 12900ks  system, I know what to expect. After playing on his system for 20-30 minutes and watching the fps locked at 144hz everywhere and no dips below 100fps no matter what I finally admitted defeat and just picked up a 4090 instead of trying to shoehorn in a 7900xtx or contemplate a 4080 to save some coin and compromise. I didn't even bother picking up the 4080 and cancelled it. If I get a chance in the future somehow I wouldn't mind testing a 4080 to just  add to my 5120x1440 data.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[electrosoft]

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

No in hell 11% more Cuda cores could make this differnce. Even faster vRam wouldn't help. With the high power efficiency for 4000 series, slightly higher TGP for a TI won't help much. Please do the math between the cut down and the full silicon.

 

 

I really like this video. @Mr. Foxour old friend, the salesman Azor is a big part of this video😀 Maybe it smells a bit of conspiracy, but damn close to reality. Enjoy, and please see the whole video🙂 Worth every second.

 

 

4070 Ti looks more as a old xx60 series card due castrated mem bus, LOOL

 

Feels more like AMD is quietly willing to price up versus really compete for market share. What little they own they want to extract maximum value.

 

Nvidia is content to keep going as they're going since they control every aspect of the narrative at this point. They have the upper hand and they know it. Their product is superior and they will continue to charge what they want till someone challenges them enough or people have had enough and set hard limits and even then they have so many other interests and profit streams that are much more lucrative than their consumer GPU market they may just shrug their shoulders and keep on keeping on.

 

Odd turn of events for AMD this time around.

 

With their 5000 series CPUs and 6000 series GPUs they made both Intel and Nvidia really stand up and take notice. 6900xt full on competed with the 3090 and the 5000 series CPUs were flat out better than 10th and 11th so Intel and Nvidia had to respond in kind.

 

Of course that is exactly what they did and ADL quickly knocked AMD back to pricing reality and Nvidia just ADA crushed them but I still do feel AMD can compete in the lower tiers at least where the true volume sales reside if they want to adjust pricing like they did with their CPUs. It isn't like the 7900xt/xtx are bad GPUs at all. I like this XFX a lot if it was priced appropriately. They just need a price adjustment if their goal is to truly compete and win market share.

 

 

[Rage Set]

I think I am going to settle for the Meshify 2 XL, if I keep the Zenith Extreme II Alpha. I will have tons of room for storage. Unless someone else has an idea for a full tower with storage being a strong feature. I need at least space for 6 HDDs. 

[Papusan]

13 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Feels more like AMD is quietly willing to price up versus really compete for market share.

 

Nvidia is content to keep going as they're going since they control every aspect of the narrative at this point. They have the upper hand and they know it. Their product is superior and they will continue to charge what they want till someone challenges them enough or people have had enough and set hard limits and even then they have so many other interests and profit streams that are much more lucrative than their consumer GPU market they may just shrug their shoulders and keep on keeping on.

Almost as I think you run Frame Chasers youtube channel😀 It's Over For Radeon. Yep, all they can do is to try grab as much money they can while it last. But I expect the world is still full of fanboys that is willing to pay the price for supporting own brand. AMD did the same for their new GPUs as they did for 7000 series Ryzen. Mooore $$$$. Tooo greeedy.

 

 

 

[Ashtrix]

AMD launches Zen 4 3D-V Cache processors at CES 2023

 

Oh boy the whole BGA news was annoying but I like how their Ultra Thin cancer BGA chip kills Apple M1 Pro lol & CES is entirely about big corporation collabs and not for consumers, heck they gave X3D a few mins of air time vs the BGA mass profit making trash and no news on Radeon RDNA3 FSR3.

 

 

 

As per rumors they are doing 3 SKUs. 7800X3D, 7900X3D and 7950X3D which is good move unlike a single SKU.

 

But bummer here is AMD is saving binning and some fabrication cash to give a single CCD Stack on the R9 High Core parts. I think if they put 2X Cache on 2X of those dies they would have been super fast and even more performance but may sabotage their R9 lineup.

 

Then If you see 7950X3D has a massive TDP cut from 170W to 120W but at 5.7GHz same boost like 7950X unlike that 5800X3D which lost 200MHz clock speed. Wonder if it's super binned chip ? And the 7800X3D gained from 105W of 7700X to 120W now being 8C16T.

 

It's Ryzen 9 btw a typo lol.

 

 

They are faster but not by a HUGE margin like 5800X3D fighting against Zen 4, Intel ADL, RPL all processors at the same time. So they are a bit faster than 5800X3D which is 7800X3D as per their slides, the best of Zen 4 for games and definitely fastest gaming chips. However I'm interested to know if their CPUs are now able to tune with the X3D stack unlike 5800X3D.

 

No wonder Intel is just doing Raptor Lake Refresh, because Zen 4X3D is a mid cycle refresh, and Intel has some EMIB related complications esp SPR Xeon got a lot of stepping revisions on Intel 7 (10nm++, denser than TSMC 7N) and Meteor Lake Intel 14th gen uses same EMIB chiplet style MCM. So a Clock speed boost + some refinements is enough for Intel I guess.

 

[Reciever]

Is it me or is forcing no support on sli/xfire part of the reason why the gpu market kind of sucks right now? 

 

What ever criticisms justified or otherwise of the methodology it did create a means for people clear out old stock and also for those that sold their gpu's second hand to help justify the cost of the latest and greatest. 

 

Wasn't as much of an issue before because we had crypto and pandemic to backfill and escalate the demand threshold. Neither of which is present any longer. Now we just have an inflexible product stack. 

 

 

 

[cylix]

Damn AMD.. Didnt announced price for the 3d versions..

 

[Raiderman]

54 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

I'm not sure what tests you're looking at in regards to rasterization of the 7900xtx vs the 4080 but it will come down to the games specifically in many cases but here was HUBs 50+ game 1440p and 4k shootout:

 

 

7900 XTX is 1% slower in 1440p and 1% faster in 4k overall. What I like most about this comprehensive shoot out is the inclusion of raster and RT along with such a wide range of games. You can find the game(s) you play and get an idea if they happen to be on this chart.

 

For example, if you play CoD MW II, a 7900xtx is a very compelling choice. On the other hand if you're all about Metro Exodus....

 

Not sure why they included CP2077 but not RT enabled. Their few RT inclusions were hand picked which I did not like. They would have done a better presentation to present a pure raster chart and a pure RT chart for clarity.

 

But even looking at their range of games tested and the massive potential percent difference (from +42% for the 7900xtx to -39% for the 4080) It will come down to the applications/games used but lets take RT out of the equation for WoW. 7900xtx is only ~26% faster than a 3080 10GB with RT disabled. To me, that isn't worth the upgrade as it doesn't get me where I want to go even in rasterization vs a 3080 10GB.

 

RT is important to me especially in the newer Dragon Isles content as it is much more front and center. 4080 would have been >100fps vs ~76fps on the 7900xtx but more importantly those .01 and 1 lows would not have been nearly as bad. Having seen and played on a 4090 in WoW, I'd estimate the 4080 would be hitting around 110-120fps on average with RT enabled.

 

I even did a clean install of W11 on another drive to give the 7900XTX its own complete, fresh, clean environment and performance was basically the same to the W10 DDU install (Score 1 for DDU).

 

My base objective is 100fps avg everywhere (higher is better) on my 144hz display and no crazy 1% or .01% lows where I would also like to see at least >100fps so even if it dips down it won't really be noticeable to me. 3080 10GB = ~97fps vs 7900XTX = ~122fps average with RT off. Turn RT on and both cards are right around ~76fps with dips even lower. Even if I was running with RT off, it wouldn't be worth the price paid (and that was with a 10% off code so $1079.99 + tax, free shipping).

 

While actually playing with the 7900xtx today it was the same "ugh" moments as the 3080 when you hit those problematic dips with RT on just not quite as bad as the .01 and 1 lows are a smidge better.

 

4090 will be here next week and having already seen a Suprim X 4090 air cooled model in action with WoW on my bud's 12900ks  system, I know what to expect. After playing on his system for 20-30 minutes and watching the fps locked at 144hz everywhere and no dips below 100fps no matter what I finally admitted defeat and just picked up a 4090 instead of trying to shoehorn in a 7900xtx or contemplate a 4080 to save some coin and compromise. I didn't even bother picking up the 4080 and cancelled it. If I get a chance in the future somehow I wouldn't mind testing a 4080 to just  add to my 5120x1440 data.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the detailed reply bro 👍

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Rage Set said:

I think I am going to settle for the Meshify 2 XL, if I keep the Zenith Extreme II Alpha. I will have tons of room for storage. Unless someone else has an idea for a full tower with storage being a strong feature. I need at least space for 6 HDDs. 

 

Good pick. I was torn between it and the Enthroo 2. I would have been happy with either case. It will be interesting to see if all the problems clear up with a newer case.

 

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Almost as I think you run Frame Chasers youtube channel😀 It's Over For Radeon. Yep, all they can do is to try grab as much money they can while it last. But I expect the world is still full of fanboys that is willing to pay the price for supporting own brand. AMD did the same for their new GPUs as they did for 7000 series Ryzen. Tooo greeedy.

 

 

 

 

lol, he went in hard on AMD. 🙂 I find Jufes crudely enjoyable.

 

1 hour ago, Ashtrix said:

AMD launches Zen 4 3D-V Cache processors at CES 2023

 

Oh boy the whole BGA news was annoying but I like how their Ultra Thin cancer BGA chip kills Apple M1 Pro lol & CES is entirely about big corporation collabs and not for consumers, heck they gave X3D a few mins of air time vs the BGA mass profit making trash and no news on Radeon RDNA3 FSR3.

 

 

 

As per rumors they are doing 3 SKUs. 7800X3D, 7900X3D and 7950X3D which is good move unlike a single SKU.

 

But bummer here is AMD is saving binning and some fabrication cash to give a single CCD Stack on the R9 High Core parts. I think if they put 2X Cache on 2X of those dies they would have been super fast and even more performance but may sabotage their R9 lineup.

 

Then If you see 7950X3D has a massive TDP cut from 170W to 120W but at 5.7GHz same boost like 7950X unlike that 5800X3D which lost 200MHz clock speed. Wonder if it's super binned chip ? And the 7800X3D gained from 105W of 7700X to 120W now being 8C16T.

 

It's Ryzen 9 btw a typo lol.

 

 

They are faster but not by a HUGE margin like 5800X3D fighting against Zen 4, Intel ADL, RPL all processors at the same time. So they are a bit faster than 5800X3D which is 7800X3D as per their slides, the best of Zen 4 for games and definitely fastest gaming chips. However I'm interested to know if their CPUs are now able to tune with the X3D stack unlike 5800X3D.

 

No wonder Intel is just doing Raptor Lake Refresh, because Zen 4X3D is a mid cycle refresh, and Intel has some EMIB related complications esp SPR Xeon got a lot of stepping revisions on Intel 7 (10nm++, denser than TSMC 7N) and Meteor Lake Intel 14th gen uses same EMIB chiplet style MCM. So a Clock speed boost + some refinements is enough for Intel I guess.

 

 

I'm looking forward to the X3D results. I know for WoW the 5800X3D is a PnP monster. Only a finely tuned 12900k or 13700/13900k could best it.

 

Apple is definitely hitting a wall with the Mx architecture. M2 felt very much like M1KS (M1SE?).

[Mr. Fox]

11 hours ago, Rage Set said:

I think I am going to settle for the Meshify 2 XL, if I keep the Zenith Extreme II Alpha. I will have tons of room for storage. Unless someone else has an idea for a full tower with storage being a strong feature. I need at least space for 6 HDDs. 

The Meshify 2 XL is a great choice.

 

If tons of room is important, I really love my Level 20 XT. It has space for everything but the kitchen sink. It is beyond ridiculously massive and with an external radiator setup or your Ice Giant you'll have more space than you can use. It has two HDD caddy's that hold three 3.5 inch HDD sleds each, and there is a removable tray for a 7th 3.5 inch HDD above the PSU on the underside of the mobo tray. In one of the caddy's, I have an optical drive, one HDD and three 2.5 inch SSDs. The second caddy is in my closet.

 

https://www.newegg.com/black-space-gray-thermaltake-level-20-xt-e-atx-cube-case/p/N82E16811133378

 

Absolutely ludicrous cavern. And, the horizontal mobo orientation and removable mobo tray is wonderful. All thumbscrews and tool-free. It is so massive I didn't like it at first. It just barely fits on my desk. The feet on the case are very wide (thankfully) and the front feet overhang the front edge of my desk by half of their width.  I have two 200MM fans in front and two 200MM fans in the top, one (included) 140MM fan in the back.

The measurements shown in the last image are totally inaccurate. The accurate measurements (using my tape measure) are 15 inches wide, 25.75 inches deep and 20 inches tall. 

 

In terms of aesthetics, my favorite case is what Brother @Papusan has, but it is insanely expensive. In my price range, I also really like the 7000D Airflow. I think it is gorgeous.

---

https://hwbot.org/submission/5162885_

https://hwbot.org/submission/5162883_ | https://valid.x86.fr/4mgpby

 

[Papusan]

11 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

In terms of aesthetics, my favorite case is what Brother @Papusan has, but it is insanely expensive. In my price range, I also really like the 7000D Airflow. I think it is gorgeous.

Yep, bro Fox. I think the 1000D is what I like best with the whole pc. And I don't change this type HW. I keep it several years (the cost will be divided over many years). Same also for the cooling (only a WB swap if needed). All black, nice "classic" design and with enough space for everything. I worked in my sons new chassis in the Christmas holidays. Mid tower and not even the smallest out there. But all too small box for my likings. You have to think on everything a good while if you want to do changes with your setup. Order parts etc has to be done properly. Craamped space is awful. I would like have a bench table for my hobby, but I hate the cleaning. With what I have now I just use the AC airduster 1 time each month. Taking out the 3 filters every week. Same for cleaning the glass panels. This take 5 min. I have a dog and they drag in a lot dust in the house. Soo there is that. My oldest son said to me before I started buy parts for my new pc.... There ain't other options for you old pa 🙂 

 

But the chassis you have in the post is also very nice. A big box the way it has to be. The only change I would do is the alu part. Paint it all black. Has to be black bro Fox "All Black" 🙂

[Talon]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I really love my Level 20 XT. It has space for everything but the kitchen sink. It is beyond ridiculously massive and with an external radiator setup or your Ice Giant you'll have more space that you can use. It has two HDD caddy's that hold 3 each, and a removable tray for a 7th HDD above the PSU on the underside of the mobo tray. In one of the caddy's, I have an optical drive, one 3.5 inch HDD and three 2.5 inch SSDs. The second caddy is in my closet.

 

https://www.newegg.com/black-space-gray-thermaltake-level-20-xt-e-atx-cube-case/p/N82E16811133378

 

Absolutely ludicrous cavern. And, the horizontal mobo orientation and removable mobo tray is wonderful. All thumbscrews and tool-free. It is so massive I didn't like it at first. It just barely fits on my desk. The feet on the case are very wide (thankfully) and the front feet overhang the front edge of my desk by half of their width.  I have two 200MM fans in front and two 200MM fans in the top, one (included) 140MM fan in the back.

The measurements shown in the last image are totally inaccurate. The accurate measurements (using my tape measure) are 15 inches wide, 25.75 inches deep and 20 inches tall. 

 

In terms of aesthetics, my favorite case is what Brother @Papusan has, but it is insanely expensive. In my price range, I also really like the 7000D Airflow. I think it is gorgeous.

---

https://hwbot.org/submission/5162885_

https://hwbot.org/submission/5162883_ | https://valid.x86.fr/4mgpby

 

 

Damn that is really incredible!