Official Clevo X170SM-G Thread

[Bidelloman]

people in this forum suggested going for win 10 ltsc, which I did, years ago, and for the most part I find myself liking the reduced amount of trash installed at every update, rest of the trash is easily removable with sophia script and other tweaks, however I wanted to ask if you'd be willing to suggest good alternatives to windows defender, free preferably but can go for cheap purchases

[Sniffy]

On 7/13/2022 at 4:58 PM, 1610ftw said:

 

Might be because of no signature but I have so much stuff sitting around that I would not want to mention as sadly it is mostly BGA CPUs 😁

 

The KM-G was my main driver for a while but I had some weight and handling problems while travelling and what drove me nuts was that it was very difficult to reliably drive a three external monitor setup with it and I also had massive issues with the X170 refusing to properly go to sleep and waking up from it  regardless of the monitor issue.

 

I had workstations and high end gaming laptops from Clevo, MSI, HP and Dell and the only ones that gave me constant troubles with three monitors and waking up and sleeping were the P870DM and the X170KM-G. 

 

I had to do so many reconnects on a daily basis to get all three monitors back that I went for a Dell 7760 as my daily driver.

It has two cores less and I also lost about 10 to 15% multicore capability but it made life a lot easier. When travelling it weighs about half of what the Clevo weighs which is mostly due to the inability to go on the road with the Clevo and a small single power supply in my carry-on luggage. With an average power draw of well below 150W it is really annoying that the imbecile engineers at Clevo forced me to travel with two huge power bricks and two big power cables even when I did not need that kind of power for what I was doing on the road.

 

 

Not everyone has the means, but I think it's a good idea to keep personal/gaming stuff and more work oriented stuff on separate devices anyway. Size, weight, and battery life are to compromised in DTRs, but you also avoid the OS clutter that can slow everything down. Plus I think different operating systems just do different jobs better. There's dual boot obviously but you still have the physical issues with DTRs.

[1610ftw]

44 minutes ago, Sniffy said:

 

Not everyone has the means, but I think it's a good idea to keep personal/gaming stuff and more work oriented stuff on separate devices anyway. Size, weight, and battery life are to compromised in DTRs, but you also avoid the OS clutter that can slow everything down. Plus I think different operating systems just do different jobs better. There's dual boot obviously but you still have the physical issues with DTRs.

There are indeed benefits for that but I do not really have issues with the size or battery of DTRs except for the worst examples that may have about 2 hours battery life. What I find annoying is that some gaming laptops look rather gaudy and not understated enough. With the ability to switch off all RGB and a business like neutral greyish or black exterior I would probably be quite happy with some gaming machines except for the way they have logos on their top cover or with some lighting effects that cannot be switched off. 

[jaybee83]

10 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

There are indeed benefits for that but I do not really have issues with the size or battery of DTRs except for the worst examples that may have about 2 hours battery life. What I find annoying is that some gaming laptops look rather gaudy and not understated enough. With the ability to switch off all RGB and a business like neutral greyish or black exterior I would probably be quite happy with some gaming machines except for the way they have logos on their top cover or with some lighting effects that cannot be switched off. 

Clevo FTW in this regard 😎

[Clamibot]

16 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

There are indeed benefits for that but I do not really have issues with the size or battery of DTRs except for the worst examples that may have about 2 hours battery life. What I find annoying is that some gaming laptops look rather gaudy and not understated enough. With the ability to switch off all RGB and a business like neutral greyish or black exterior I would probably be quite happy with some gaming machines except for the way they have logos on their top cover or with some lighting effects that cannot be switched off. 

 

Cable cutting time? 🤣

 

Fortunately on the X170, we can physically disconnect the cables. The keyboard listens to my saved lighting settings, but not the other lights, so I have them physically disconnected. They were annoying me as well.

[1610ftw]

3 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

Cable cutting time? 🤣

 

Fortunately on the X170, we can physically disconnect the cables. The keyboard listens to my saved lighting settings, but not the other lights, so I have them physically disconnected. They were annoying me as well.

In the KM-G I ripped out that silly light strip on the back - hated it 😄

[Clamibot]

I got a Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML360 Sub-Zero for a new desktop I'm building as a workstation for my new job, and I will be utilizing it as a gaming machine as well of course. I couldn't pass it up since it was on sale for $120.

 

While waiting for the rest of the parts to arrive, I thought I'd try and use it with my X170 to supplement its cooling. Wish me luck. It's time for some hardcore overclocking with this laptop. 🤪

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Clamibot said:

I got a Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML360 Sub-Zero for a new desktop I'm building as a workstation for my new job, and I will be utilizing it as a gaming machine as well of course. I couldn't pass it up since it was on sale for $120.

 

While waiting for the rest of the parts to arrive, I thought I'd try and use it with my X170 to supplement its cooling. Wish me luck. It's time for some hardcore overclocking with this laptop. 🤪

 

Nice, what are the specs of the desktop build out?

 

Luckily the CPU and cooling are literally "right there" when you pop the bottom off so you can try to strap it on top some how for some extra zip.

 

 

[Clamibot]

On 7/20/2022 at 1:23 AM, electrosoft said:

 

Nice, what are the specs of the desktop build out?

 

Luckily the CPU and cooling are literally "right there" when you pop the bottom off so you can try to strap it on top some how for some extra zip.

 

 

 

The specs will be:

- Super 10900K Mr. Fox edition

- Gigabyte Z590 AORUS Master

- I haven't firmly decided on a GPU yet, but I'm thinking of going with an AMD GPU this time around. They're really crushing it right now. If GPU prices fall further, I think I want to get an RX 6900 XT as this would be perfect for a Hackintosh compatible build.

- 32 GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR4 4000 MHz CL18 RAM

- EVGA Supernova 1000 G6 PSU

- Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML360 Sub-Zero

 

I also bought some 120mm Noctua 3000 RPM industrial grade fans for enhanced cooling.

 

All in all, this thing is gonna be super badass. It'll also have costed me less than my X170 cost at stock, even when factoring in the cost of a screen, case, keyboard, and mouse. I'd forgotten how good desktop land was.

 

I really wanted to reuse some parts I already had, but my current desktop case won't fit these parts, and the MasterLiquid ML360 Sub-Zero made the total worst case power consumption go over what my current PSU is rated for. I'm still waiting on the rest of the parts I ordered to arrive.

 

Also lucky me, I got every single one of these parts on sale. Everything I needed just happened to be on sale at the same time. 😁

[Sniffy]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:31 AM, 1610ftw said:

There are indeed benefits for that but I do not really have issues with the size or battery of DTRs except for the worst examples that may have about 2 hours battery life. What I find annoying is that some gaming laptops look rather gaudy and not understated enough. With the ability to switch off all RGB and a business like neutral greyish or black exterior I would probably be quite happy with some gaming machines except for the way they have logos on their top cover or with some lighting effects that cannot be switched off. 

 

The NH57AF1 had a bit over an hour on battery but yes that's the extreme end. I have a colleague with one he brings to work and it won't survive a Zoom call without AC power.

 

Agree RE lighting. I disabled the light bars on my MSI on first boot (thankfully could be done through software) and they haven't been on since. I don't even know if they work properly.

[1610ftw]

4 hours ago, Sniffy said:

 

The NH57AF1 had a bit over an hour on battery but yes that's the extreme end. I have a colleague with one he brings to work and it won't survive a Zoom call without AC power.

 

Agree RE lighting. I disabled the light bars on my MSI on first boot (thankfully could be done through software) and they haven't been on since. I don't even know if they work properly.

 

 

Somebody please tell Clevo that DTRs do not HAVE to have ultra shitty battery life, the KM-G also is pretty hopeless.

 

I also deactivated all that bling on the GT75, only kept the keyboard illumination.

 

[electrosoft]

9 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

The specs will be:

- Super 10900K Mr. Fox edition

- Gigabyte Z590 AORUS Master

- I haven't firmly decided on a GPU yet, but I'm thinking of going with an AMD GPU this time around. They're really crushing it right now. If GPU prices fall further, I think I want to get an RX 6900 XT as this would be perfect for a Hackintosh compatible build.

- 32 GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR4 4000 MHz CL18 RAM

- EVGA Supernova 1000 G6 PSU

- Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML360 Sub-Zero

 

I also bought some 120mm Noctua 3000 RPM industrial grade fans for enhanced cooling.

 

All in all, this thing is gonna be super badass. It'll also have costed me less than my X170 cost at stock, even when factoring in the cost of a screen, case, keyboard, and mouse. I'd forgotten how good desktop land was.

 

I really wanted to reuse some parts I already had, but my current desktop case won't fit these parts, and the MasterLiquid ML360 Sub-Zero made the total worst case power consumption go over what my current PSU is rated for. I'm still waiting on the rest of the parts I ordered to arrive.

 

Also lucky me, I got every single one of these parts on sale. Everything I needed just happened to be on sale at the same time. 😁

 

Alright! Now we're talkin! 🙂

 

You'll get more out of the @Mr. Fox 10900k on the desktop than the laptop that's for sure. Both LTX and SL run like monsters on the desktop with EVGA CLC 360mm AIOs.

 

And the icing on the cake is getting great pricing on everything. It just warms the fiscally responsible soul just right.

 

 

[1610ftw]

16 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

The specs will be:

- Super 10900K Mr. Fox edition

I can imagine that your poor X170 is very disappointed right now 😉

 

[Clamibot]

2 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

I can imagine that your poor X170 is very disappointed right now 😉

 

 

Unfortunately it seems like 5.4 GHz is the limit on this laptop regardless of the chip. There is voltage and thermal headroom left (on single core at least), but anything above 5.4 GHz just causes a freeze. As I said before, I will do some testing using the Sub-Zero cooler I acquired to see if I can get it higher.

 

There must be something tripping the power delivery on this system. It may just not be up to the task. High end motherboards like the one I bought for my desktop build are built for extreme overclocking, even speeds that would require LN2 to cool, so they have extremely beefy power delivery, wheras the power delivery on the X170 looks pretty much the same as on a budget Z490 motherboard.

 

Given my original 10900K isn't capable of doing more than 5.3 GHz all core on the air cooling provided by this laptop, it belongs in this laptop. I can do 5.4 GHz on 4 cores with this 10900K, but any more and the system will freeze. There must be bad cores holding it back.

 

 I did not get the Super 10900K to limit it. I want to unleash the beast. 😁

[1610ftw]

3 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

Unfortunately it seems like 5.4 GHz is the limit on this laptop regardless of the chip. There is voltage and thermal headroom left (on single core at least), but anything above 5.4 GHz just causes a freeze. As I said before, I will do some testing using the Sub-Zero cooler I acquired to see if I can get it higher.

 

There must be something tripping the power delivery on this system. It may just not be up to the task. High end motherboards like the one I bought for my desktop build are built for extreme overclocking, even speeds that would require LN2 to cool, so they have extremely beefy power delivery, wheras the power delivery on the X170 looks pretty much the same as on a budget Z490 motherboard.

 

Given my original 10900K isn't capable of doing more than 5.3 GHz all core on the air cooling provided by this laptop, it belongs in this laptop. I can do 5.4 GHz on 4 cores with this 10900K, but any more and the system will freeze. There must be bad cores holding it back.

 

 I did not get the Super 10900K to limit it. I want to unleash the beast. 😁

No problem, let it be all it can be. And to be honest 5.3 on all cores ain't half bad on a laptop 😄

 

 

[jaybee83]

7 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

No problem, let it be all it can be. And to be honest 5.3 on all cores ain't half bad on a laptop 😄

 

 

lol, understatement! and yes, its likely some kinda voltage or amp limit that causes the system to freeze. even highend DTRs can only do so much to try and keep up with entry to midrange desktop boards with regards to power delivery...

[1610ftw]

18 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

lol, understatement! and yes, its likely some kinda voltage or amp limit that causes the system to freeze. even highend DTRs can only do so much to try and keep up with entry to midrange desktop boards with regards to power delivery...

Yeah this is as good as it gets, I doubt anybody will be able to do more than that. I also think it is a miracle that this is possible given the size of the mainboard and the cooling, very impressive! So yes, 5.3 on 10 cores is epic and it will probably be some time until this can be exceeded as future processors will seemingly be limited to 8 performance cores.

[electrosoft]

Temps progression logs playing WoW aka Operation can I play this as quietly as possible?

 

 

30-60 min play time in WoW results (my main criteria). Includes flight runs in Ardenweald, Bastion (hardest hitting zones in the entire game) and one raid run.

 

When I first got the laptop = 92c on CPU / 76c GPU

 

Cleaned everything up, used nanogrease extreme 30 min = 88c on CPU / 71c GPU

 

Went back in fixed a bent side on the GPU retention. re-delidded/lidded original binned ZtecPC CPU = 85c on CPU / 65c on GPU (GPU ok now)

 

Picked up an SL 10900k no delid or tampering 82c right out of the box. Switched screws for CPU retention.

 

Picked up an LTX Golden 10900k already delidded. Relidded w/ BartX Nickel IHS = 83c

 

Relidded LTX Golden 10900k with stock IHS temp = 77c. Clearly BartX did not like the X170SM but stock IHS is working better.

 

Used torque controlled screw driver to find optimal torque without black screens. dropping LTX temps down to 73

 

LTX delid temps clearly beating SL even though SL is superior chip. Delid and relid SL 10900k with stock IHS. As soon as I started playing I knew next level was hit because the fans were barely moving during my entire play sessions.

 

Final top out temps = 68c. If I forced the fans to run as they were with the >70c temps it would have probably been a smidge lower:

 

 

 

 

I think I've optimized this thing as much as I possibly can. Maybe get back in there and play around with the memory to see how much more I can optimize it. Also pick up a dual rank set of sticks to compare against Jarrod's report of memory gains.

 

@Clamibot while using a torque controlled screw driver and doing a lot of trial and error I did identify on my X170SM-G it was the lower left CPU screw that causes black screens when tension is too high. The single and right screw? I could tighten those as much as I wanted just about (within reason) and the unit still booted fine. I'm wondering if it is a combination of sensitivity and retention lever pressure on that side.

 

 

[Clamibot]

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Temps progression logs playing WoW aka Operation can I play this as quietly as possible?

 

 

30-60 min play time in WoW results (my main criteria). Includes flight runs in Ardenweald, Bastion (hardest hitting zones in the entire game) and one raid run.

 

When I first got the laptop = 92c on CPU / 76c GPU

 

Cleaned everything up, used nanogrease extreme 30 min = 88c on CPU / 71c GPU

 

Went back in fixed a bent side on the GPU retention. re-delidded/lidded original binned ZtecPC CPU = 85c on CPU / 65c on GPU (GPU ok now)

 

Picked up an SL 10900k no delid or tampering 82c right out of the box. Switched screws for CPU retention.

 

Picked up an LTX Golden 10900k already delidded. Relidded w/ BartX Nickel IHS = 83c

 

Relidded LTX Golden 10900k with stock IHS temp = 77c. Clearly BartX did not like the X170SM but stock IHS is working better.

 

Used torque controlled screw driver to find optimal torque without black screens. dropping LTX temps down to 73

 

LTX delid temps clearly beating SL even though SL is superior chip. Delid and relid SL 10900k with stock IHS. As soon as I started playing I knew next level was hit because the fans were barely moving during my entire play sessions.

 

Final top out temps = 68c. If I forced the fans to run as they were with the >70c temps it would have probably been a smidge lower:

 

 

 

 

I think I've optimized this thing as much as I possibly can. Maybe get back in there and play around with the memory to see how much more I can optimize it. Also pick up a dual rank set of sticks to compare against Jarrod's report of memory gains.

 

@Clamibot while using a torque controlled screw driver and doing a lot of trial and error I did identify on my X170SM-G it was the lower left CPU screw that causes black screens when tension is too high. The single and right screw? I could tighten those as much as I wanted just about (within reason) and the unit still booted fine. I'm wondering if it is a combination of sensitivity and retention lever pressure on that side.

 

 

 

That screw could somehow be affecting pin contact. That's a really nice find!

 

I've been wanting to do some messing around with the Sub-Zero cooler on my X170 but haven't found the time yet. I'm almost done assembling my workstation though. It just needs a CPU now, which I will plot in once I'm done with my testing.

[jaybee83]

23 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Temps progression logs playing WoW aka Operation can I play this as quietly as possible?

 

 

30-60 min play time in WoW results (my main criteria). Includes flight runs in Ardenweald, Bastion (hardest hitting zones in the entire game) and one raid run.

 

When I first got the laptop = 92c on CPU / 76c GPU

 

Cleaned everything up, used nanogrease extreme 30 min = 88c on CPU / 71c GPU

 

Went back in fixed a bent side on the GPU retention. re-delidded/lidded original binned ZtecPC CPU = 85c on CPU / 65c on GPU (GPU ok now)

 

Picked up an SL 10900k no delid or tampering 82c right out of the box. Switched screws for CPU retention.

 

Picked up an LTX Golden 10900k already delidded. Relidded w/ BartX Nickel IHS = 83c

 

Relidded LTX Golden 10900k with stock IHS temp = 77c. Clearly BartX did not like the X170SM but stock IHS is working better.

 

Used torque controlled screw driver to find optimal torque without black screens. dropping LTX temps down to 73

 

LTX delid temps clearly beating SL even though SL is superior chip. Delid and relid SL 10900k with stock IHS. As soon as I started playing I knew next level was hit because the fans were barely moving during my entire play sessions.

 

Final top out temps = 68c. If I forced the fans to run as they were with the >70c temps it would have probably been a smidge lower:

 

 

 

 

I think I've optimized this thing as much as I possibly can. Maybe get back in there and play around with the memory to see how much more I can optimize it. Also pick up a dual rank set of sticks to compare against Jarrod's report of memory gains.

 

@Clamibot while using a torque controlled screw driver and doing a lot of trial and error I did identify on my X170SM-G it was the lower left CPU screw that causes black screens when tension is too high. The single and right screw? I could tighten those as much as I wanted just about (within reason) and the unit still booted fine. I'm wondering if it is a combination of sensitivity and retention lever pressure on that side.

 

 

impressive progress! just goes to show how much leeway is left in terms of wide tolerance manufacturing of laptop cooling...

[Clamibot]

20 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

That screw could somehow be affecting pin contact. That's a really nice find!

 

I've been wanting to do some messing around with the Sub-Zero cooler on my X170 but haven't found the time yet. I'm almost done assembling my workstation though. It just needs a CPU now, which I will plot in once I'm done with my testing.

 

Also @electrosoft, thanks for finding the screw that causes issues. I've been having weird stability issues with my laptop the past 2 weeks, and loosening that screw fixed it all. No more stupid black screens when turning on the laptop.

 

I tried for 5.5 GHz again. My laptop wanted to push 1.601 volts into the CPU, which is way more than this CPU needs since it's a really good bin. I'll try again with decreased temperatures from the cooler. The system crashed after that. I hope I don't blow my VRMs.😅

[Clamibot]

Success! I was able to do 5.5 GHz single core!

 

It seems there is a temperature requirement for any speeds higher than 5.4 GHz, at least when the CPU is in this laptop. I'd imagine it'd be the same for desktops at some point, since high temperatures will cause instability at high speeds unless the voltage is increased.

 

It's really cool seeing my laptop's CPU running this cool, hehe.🤣

 

I was able to do 5.5 GHz single core until the temperature rose above 158°F (70°C), at which point the system froze.

[Clamibot]

5.6 GHz is not possible on the Clevo X170SM-G. 5.5 GHz is the max possible speed on this laptop. No matter what I did, the system would freeze.

 

I dropped temperatures further too.

 

Condensation started forming on the laptop, so I stopped dropping the temperature further. 5.5 GHz is achievable on a max of 6 cores. Any more and the laptop freezes.

 

I'm thinking there's a current limit on the motherboard that is limiting how high I can go as there is a lot of temperature headroom left even at 5.5 GHz. The motherboard is the equivalent of a budget Z490 desktop motherboard though, so that makes sense.

 

Next up, this same super 10900K is going into my new workstation I've been building. It has a really beefy high end Z590 motherboard in it, so I should be able to take the CPU higher in it.

[electrosoft]

23 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

impressive progress! just goes to show how much leeway is left in terms of wide tolerance manufacturing of laptop cooling...

 

So crazy. I remember way back in the day with an MSI-1722 and a C2Q Extreme being a throttling, heating mess going, "something is clearly wrong here," doing some google searches and finding the notebook forums in 2009 and the rest is history....since then every laptop I've had has gotten cracked open and optimized. The trend has continued to this day even BGA garbage gets ripped open and addressed.

 

23 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

Also @electrosoft, thanks for finding the screw that causes issues. I've been having weird stability issues with my laptop the past 2 weeks, and loosening that screw fixed it all. No more stupid black screens when turning on the laptop.

 

I tried for 5.5 GHz again. My laptop wanted to push 1.601 volts into the CPU, which is way more than this CPU needs since it's a really good bin. I'll try again with decreased temperatures from the cooler. The system crashed after that. I hope I don't blow my VRMs.😅

 

Awesome! I reached a point I busted out a spiral notebook and started jotting down torque levels and correlating successful boots, memory channels working and synthetic benches either glitching, freezing or BSODs and after a few days of hours of testing and torque levels it all pointed to that bottom left screw as problematic. Not to absolve the other two but that bottom left was consistently causing issues.

 

Sheesh, 1.601v on this constrained environment? What was the package pull on that?  😁

[Clamibot]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

So crazy. I remember way back in the day with an MSI-1722 and a C2Q Extreme being a throttling, heating mess going, "something is clearly wrong here," doing some google searches and finding the notebook forums in 2009 and the rest is history....since then every laptop I've had has gotten cracked open and optimized. The trend has continued to this day even BGA garbage gets ripped open and addressed.

 

 

Awesome! I reached a point I busted out a spiral notebook and started jotting down torque levels and correlating successful boots, memory channels working and synthetic benches either glitching, freezing or BSODs and after a few days of hours of testing and torque levels it all pointed to that bottom left screw as problematic. Not to absolve the other two but that bottom left was consistently causing issues.

 

Sheesh, 1.601v on this constrained environment? What was the package pull on that?  😁

 

I was only doing single core testing for 5.5 GHz at that time, so nothing too crazy. I think the power draw was around 70-75 watts.

 

Had it been all core, I'd imagine the power draw would be over 300 watts at the temperature the CPU was operating at. The X170 seems to have a current limit though as I've never been able to get over 275 watts, even with the power limits set insanely high.