win32asmguy
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Everything posted by win32asmguy
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Thanks! So it sounds like these high end GPUs are probably thermally limited by the cooling system. Mine did get consistently better after a repaste (probably if anything because the CPU wasn't throttling as bad at reasonable combined load limits). Does yours also report "145W Maximum Graphics Power" in Nvidia Control Panel System Information? Yes, on a flat surface it was reaching the 87C GPU throttling limit with ~140W GPU and ~30W CPU combined load. However if I put the system on a laptop stand it does drop down to high 70's. The die size for AD103 is decently larger than AD104 so I thought maybe the same wattage over a larger surface area would be more efficient.
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Yeah it has only had a single LED for a few generations now just showing battery charge status and diagnostic codes if there is a boot issue. Out of curiousity are you able to run a Timespy benchmark on the RTX 5000 Ada mobile chip? Curious where it ends up compared to the RTX 4000 Ada which gets about 16,600 in Timespy Graphics drawing up to 140W. I have heard the larger die is easier to cool so it may be better suited to the cooling solution.
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Yeah after looking into what causes this, it apparently is the Intel "Innovation Platform Framework" which is just a new name for DPTF. Throttlestop can disable its effects or the drivers can be blocked from installation. So it can go higher with that disabled but it still runs into thermal throttling. PTM7950 repaste is the next step. An aftermarket heatsink is an interesting idea, but I am not sure how they could improve on it. Vapor chamber? Additional heatpipes? A thicker bottom panel to allow for higher CFM fans and larger fin stacks?
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I went ahead and created one, will try to post a review soon but I have yet to create a rough draft. In single core I have seen the 13950hx draw up to 1.502v stock at 5.5ghz. Not sure where that falls compared to the 13900k, but it can draw a decent amount of power at that speed.
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<Reserved for my review>
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Announced / Released: March 23, 2023 13th gen Raptor Lake HX CPUs NVIDIA Ada Lovelace GPUs, up to RTX 5000 Ada mobile GeForce RTX 4080 option also available (through sales rep only in most territories) Up to 128 GB DDR5 non-ECC memory (via CAMM module), or 64 GB DDR5 ECC or non-ECC (via SODIMM) All NVMe slots support PCIe4 Full driver support for Windows 10 & Windows 11
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The single core score is better, just because of higher clock speeds (if you have a paste job good enough to allow over 5ghz on a single core without thermal throttling) With multicore it has the same thermal system and power limits so its essentially robbing performance from the p-cores for additional e-cores. At least it also has better memory options. In the case of the 7780 it also has the unfortunate combined load PL1 throttling down as low as 40W. This is better than the 7670 which goes down as low as 30W in the same scenario. It should really be 55W minimum in the highest performance mode while plugged in.
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Maybe also try these drivers for the 7680/7780 which worked fine on older Precisions (7560 w/3080, 7670 w/3080ti). https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=w0dp7&oscode=wt64a&productcode=precision-17-7780-laptop
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The heatsink/fan assembly part number is 204PH. The CPU draws about 130W with thermal throttling (157W PL2) until it reaches PL1 which is limited to 85W at 90C average core temperatures. I do not think this has a vapor chamber either despite some marketing material I saw from Dell and Chinese sites. 15% coupon from signing up to the Dell newsletter. It is also eligible for Rakuten cashback and will get 2% Dell Rewards as well, which can be used to buy a spare power brick or similar.
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Got some initial benchmarks of the Precision 7780. This is with 64GB Kingston Fury at DDR5-5200 CL38. ADA 4000 laptop GPU shows as 145W in Nvidia Control Panel and was 135W observed under load in Optimus mode. This config was about 3600usd before tax (only including 8GB SODIMM and 256GB storage). A similar config with the 4090 mobile instead was quoted at 4400usd which did not seem to be as good a value. The cooling system indeed no longer has the "grinding" startup/shutdown noise and is quieter than the 7670 with 3080ti mobile while also being 50% faster.
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Did your machine with the flicker have the BOE or CSOT panel? Curious if its a vendor-specific issue. AFAIK they can use either vendor for both the 4080 and 4090 model depending on what they have on hand.
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Wow yours looks quite a bit better than mine did after disassembly. On mine most of the LM was no longer emulsified in the paste and had made it past both the CPU and GPU barriers. Did you use acetone to clean everything up before applying Conductonaut? Do you intend to test any other options like PTM7950?
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Yeah those Precisions are probably only a choice if you NEED the faster warranty service or expansion to 128GB of ram or four full-sized M.2 drives, or want good gauranteed compatibility with Linux/Win10 which they do support. The sales agents and spec sheets are also not listing CPU / GPU power limits so nobody really knows where they land performance wise until someone tests it out. I noticed Alienware allows the m18 to be configured with the FHD+ display and 4090 now for 3299, but it seems like there are not any coupons around right now.
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Hah, I was quoted the other day for a Precision 7780 with a 13950HX, FHD 60hz and 4090 mobile (probably 130-150W TGP) for $4399 before tax.
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That is really good to know. After using the 7670 quite a bit under combined loads it is definitely not as good as the 7770 was. It can really only sustain about 85W GPU and 45W CPU, and needs MMIO PL1/2 locked via TS for it to not drop the CPU down to 30W. Oh, and another interesting note about the 7780, it looks like it now has modular wifi again which is nice.
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@Aaron44126 Did the new heatsink reduce or eliminate the noise the fans made when cycling on? Just curious as the 7670 sunon variant definitely does not have that issue but I did experience it with both variants on the 7770.
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Not sure what happened. I used DJUnreal's X17 R2 teardown video as a guide for care in heatsink removal with Element 31. Basically tried to be gentle while separating the heatsink from the mobo so as to not bend anything or cause any LM to spill. After I pulled it apart I could tell that most of the LM was no longer emulsified in the paste and much of it was up under both the CPU and GPU barriers, some of which had made its way on to the BGA contacts for CPU, GPU and GPU memory. If you want to get it replaced I would suggest trying to get a tech sent out to do the job. That way if the LM spilled they can simply report it and get a motherboard part dispatched without having to point to customer modification damage.
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I agree that most users should be disassemble beyond upgrading memory or storage. Its a shame because replacing some parts that are semi-consumable like keyboards, fans and DC-in jacks are a lot more complex job than it was on most models ten years ago. Factory liquid metal sounds like a bad idea in general to me. Even if service techs are handling the repair while in warranty it only lasts a maximum of four years and by default these systems only include one year of coverage. It does not help performance unless it can be properly applied so why even bother knowing the track record of quality control at the factory?
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The disassembly isn't particularly hard. Some of the cables had adhesive so they would stick to other things while trying to remove the mobo. I spent far more time trying to clean up the existing Element 31 TIM that had leaked past the barrier. Sadly the mobo is still dead so it was not exactly a great experience.
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This one was from Windows 11 mostly out of box after trying to get AWCC in a configuration where the CPU was performing poorly. https://www.3dmark.com/spy/36952549 The interesting part is that if you have no AWCC installed, it can actually be put in a state where the custom OC level from the bios is used which seemed to work more reliably than AWCC switching game profiles and applying overclocking along with overvolting.
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Well, I disassembled my M18 this afternoon to replace the TIM and it looks like liquid metal (element 31?) was in places it should not be. So now I have to figure out how to safely clean it up before applying PTM7950.
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https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-74-mm-barrel-330-w-ac-adapter-with-2-meter-power-cord-united-states/apd/450-bbqg/pc-accessories This power brick showed up on Dell's site recently. It is the SFF 330W according to a sales rep, so I ordered one. Technically I already have the SlimQ 330W but it has been making a popping noise so I have stopped using it (and I do not have the 330W Dell tip for it either). I also swapped over to my Windows 10 22H2 + Fedora 37 drive which is working well. Audio seems to have full volume and no missing drivers in Device Manager. AWCC download page mentions only Windows 11 support and I have not tried installing it.
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I would say "slightly rubberized" is a good assessment. It is not as rubberized as the Precision but not smooth like the metal bottom panel either.
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Is there a benefit from choosing 64GB (dual rank) over 32GB (single rank)? I am also looking at ram options for the m18.
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I have been testing the Alienware m18 and it seems like it is designed to allow the CPU up to 185W, but the stock paste job cannot sustain more than 130W. Obviously the killer feature there is just the 18 inch FHD+ display but it is pretty good for performance while being over $1000 cheaper than a similar spec Razer Blade 18.
