win32asmguy
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Everything posted by win32asmguy
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I have a 330W brick from an Alienware 51M R2. While it does recognize and power the Precision 7770, it did not allow draw over 240W. In fact there were still situations where combined full load use was causing battery drain. I would think that if the Dynamic Boost 2.0 limit is 150W then a synthetic load with CPU idle (<10W) and GPU 100% should be able to reach that value, but the highest I ever saw was 120W regardless of driver, bios and operating system combination.
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Well HP definitely has their own custom GUI bios implementation for their business laptop line, similar to Dell and Lenovo. It is hard to say if it could use some optimization but they may not want to touch it so long as it is stable. I did not spend too much time in the bios on mine (maybe 2-3 minutes) and did not notice fan noise going above 2500rpm, other than when I performed the bios update where it always sets the fans to max speed. I have wondered if rendering the bios GUI to a 4k display makes it consume more CPU power. My Zbook Fury G9 had a WUXGA panel but my wife's Zbook X2 G4 tablet has a 4k panel and is noticeably louder and more laggy in the bios GUI.
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So far as I know the Prema bios still isn't available. But you can modify hidden UEFI setup variables to get the same effect.
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The system will consume more power in the bios because no drivers are loaded for the CPU and GPU to enable c-states which allow the chips to drop into lower power consumption modes based on demand. Also, the 12900HK has less cores, cache and no PCH so it could draw as much as 20W less in this scenario compared to 12900HX + WM690. The stock paste job can also have a chance to be poorly applied at the factory which can result in higher fan noise as the highest core temperature is usually used as the determination for fan speed. Check the P-core temperature deltas under load with CBR23 Multi as usually a poor paste job could have as much of a 20C difference between the highest and lowest. It is especially unlucky if the favored cores have poor contact because that means it likely will thermal throttle in single core loads and cannot reach a full 5.0ghz boost, along with crappy fan response as load spikes can cause 50C jumps.
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I wonder if running the system with the stock bios AC LLC values, and resulting load voltages of 1.5v+ at 3.2ghz will cause premature chip failure. Its a pretty dramatic difference compared to a properly tuned Alder Lake chip which can be around 1.0v at 4.2ghz. I think the XOC crowd generally says over 1.4v sustained is bad without very good cooling in place. I thought last year's primary Gen4 drive slot deactivation switch flakyness was bad but this could be just as bad in terms of RMA headache.
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Were you actually able to get 125W out of the 3080Ti in the 7670? I have found that dynamic boost 2.0 in general has not worked at all with the Precision 7770. The 3080Ti that should be 150W only pulled 120W, and the A3000 that should be 130W only pulls 115W, regardless of bios settings, performance mode, driver used, Nvidia PCF sourced from Dell drivers, plenty of thermal headroom.
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The same technique applies across all the generations, just the version of ME Tools has to match your ME Firmware version: https://brendangreenley.com/undervolting-2020-dell-laptops-like-the-vostro-7500-and-more-tips-to-improve-thermals-battery-life-and-speed/#cpu-undervolt With the Thinkpad P16 I ran into an issue where the bios setup variable region was locked even in the grub pre-boot environment. Probably some security related setting that is not modifiable. Although it did not really need undervolting anyways as the cooling system (CPU side vapor chamber + PTM7950 + good AC/DC LLC config + 157W PL1/PL2) did well as is. You could probably expect 22000+ in CBR23 from the 12900HX as its the most setup to handle it as a turnkey solution.
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I think Dell could have had an easier time marketing CAMM if they had made a unique module for the Precision, say a 32GB DDR5-5600 CL36 XMP which could work as it was commonly paired with a 12900k in a desktop. Although maybe the Alienware group did not want this given that the Precision already had HX CPU's, 3080Ti and a 120hz display option.
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On mine I found it was getting about the same CPU performance without using Throttlestop to boost PL1/PL2. The CPU also has tight tolerances for thermals so any core with poor contact can drag all the other core clockspeed down. PTM7950 sounds like a great idea if you have it just to bring it as close to the 140W limit as possible. I am curious if the fans in your system have any issue with pulsing around the 2500rpm mark. The pitch change in the noise was enough to irritate me. By chance can your run the A3000 through Timespy as well? Curious how it compares to the 90W A4500.
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A4500 MXM - Need help getting this working!
win32asmguy replied to ssj92's topic in Alienware 18 and M18x
Attached is the A4500M vbios from a Zbook Fury 16 G9. I dumped it with GPU-Z. Let me know if you have any issues and I can try dumping it again. This one reports as 100W in Nvidia Control Panel. HPA4500M.zip -
Thank you for this meeting! It was very informative. I was able to send an email to Alex requesting a bios option to have the system fans run at a minimal RPM in idle conditions instead of cycling on and off. I hope it is a possibility as that is the way they behave on the 7560/7760 as well. I should also ask him if we could confirm if "Core/IA VR Domain -> AC Loadline" is mistakenly set to 4.0mOhms instead of 1.7mOhms.
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Unfortunately I forgot to pick up the eGPU (and search for the TB3 cable which was misplaced) so I can't test it. It may not be a good indicator of stuttering presence either as the 5700XT driver does not have conflicts with the Nvidia dGPU driver.
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The build quality is fine. I think the exterior is made of some metal, maybe pressed aluminum. The corners are all rounded no there is no sharp edges. No issues with gaps. I would say the lid is thinner than I prefer. No issues with bend or wobble on the chassis although I did not try bending the lid. The keyboard feels fine to type on. It is the white-backlit only option. The trackpad motion is smooth. The performance is OK overall. Having the vapor chamber and correct bios settings helps. Temperature is good at the stock power limits. It seems to have a current limit in place as it always throttles with EDP_OTHER reason at 140W on the CPU. The fans are fine under load, but at idle they are at 2500RPM and oscillate between 2400RPM-2600RPM every few seconds so the noise pitch is not constant. I noticed the same problem back in 2016 with a Zbook Studio G3. Comparing against the other models, if you need the four storage drives it is the only 16 inch option. The Precision 7770 is less portable but can offer more performance if you are willing to tune it. If fan noise is bothering and performance is important then the MSI GT77 or CreatorPro X17 would be the best option. It runs the fans at a very low speed at idle and can also be very quiet under load.
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I agree that x8 Gen5 is more than enough for any dGPU option. It is the configuration used on the Precision 7770 and also MSI GE77/GT77 even providing enough bandwidth for a 175W 3080Ti. As far as the Razer Blade 17 its PCH is essentially on-die so latency is probably not as much of an issue. Here is a 3dmark I ran with the Precision 7560 + Razer Core X + MSI 3080Ti 12GB, it you want to compare to your results: https://www.3dmark.com/spy/29697832 11th Gen mobile was special because we got an 8 p-core chip with an on-die TB4 controller all in a refreshed 10nm process to greatly help thermals.
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Technically which lanes the discrete TB4 is wired to is up to the OEM to decide. Did Jarrod happen to post if the Aorus 17X was using CPU PCIe lanes? It is pretty easy to determine with the TB4 device connected as PCH lanes are marked appropriately: So you can see from the Zbook Fury it has x16 Gen5 CPU going to the dGPU, and x4 Gen4 CPU going to the primary M.2 drive, so nothing is left over for TB4 lanes so they must be connected via PCH. If you wanted a good business grade eGPU host laptop I would suggest looking into the Thinkpad P1 Gen 5. It has a configuration which is 12800H but no dGPU. You could very well see HIGHER CPU performance from that model with the 12800H than the 12850HX in the stock Precision 7670!
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That is with stock limits PL1 85W PL2 96W. Also I just noticed core isolation was enabled by default so disabling it can probably give a few more percent. Sadly the Intel ME is version 16.1 which we do not have ME Tools for yet so dumping/extracting bios setup variables is not possible for now, for unlocking things like undervolting. My eGPU is in storage so I would not be able to test until the weekend. It is a Razer Core X + XFX RX5700XT. I will note that it uses PCH PCIe lanes for TB4, so there would be extra latency compared to machines with 12900H and the integrated controller. I do not see a part listed in the repair manual for any iGPU dummy board so it may just work with the dGPU module removed.
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I have one for testing at the moment if you have any questions. It has the 12950HX and RTX A4500 with CPU+GPU vapor chamber. Out of the box it scores higher than the Precision 7770/7670 in CPU. It has the correct settings for IA AC/DC LoadLine values. In CBR23 it scores around 20,000 multi and 1900 single. The GPU is limited to 90W and in Timespy Graphics it scores about 9000. The fan noise is more enjoyable than the Precision as the system has a "always run fans on DC power" option and the vapor chamber + fans are able to keep the thermals in check at stock limits.
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The only option at this point with physical touchpad buttons is the HP Zbook Fury 16 G9. With the A3000 or better GPU option it has a CPU+GPU vapor chamber which helps with thermals. It also has correct AC/DC loadline values out of the box so performance is closer to what you would expect (~20,000 CBR23 multi). It also happens to have a "always run the fans at idle" bios option which keeps its fan operation closer to how the Precision 7560 is. Of course, its a different manufacturer so the ecosystem of accessories and software is a bit different. It also misses a few hardware features like the MUX option for the TB4 ports.
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Just FYI undervolting P-cache isn't usually possible on a 12900K at stock ratios either. The only options are to drop the Ring Max multiplier down or disable all e-cores. I did have a 12900KS that was a good enough bin that it did not crash, so if you are super lucky with the silicon lottery its possible a 12950HX could do it as well. It wouldn't hurt so bad except that the cache power draw counts against CPU TDP so if you can lower it by 15W or more by undervolting it allows much more thermal and power consumption room for the cores so long as they have enough cache bandwidth and latency.
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I would have been happy if they used a design similar to the 7760 but with side vents and additional heatpipes so it could utilize a 330W brick with 157W+ CPU TDP, 175W GPU TDP or combined 250W CPU+GPU. Even if it has to grow in size to support it. If people want thin and light, choose the 7670, 5770, 5570, 5470. There is no reason to castrate the 7770 at its asking price if it is still reasonably portable. In the past people somehow managed to carry around machines like the M6800 despite it being larger and heavier.
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I am testing a MSI GE77 which is pretty similar to the Precision 7770. It has easy access to advanced bios options and an EC that support adjustable fan tables. No 4k panel but they do have a nice QHD 240hz panel with wide gamut. The cooling system has plenty of heatpipes and venting to properly cool it at 250W combined load. No battery drain under combined loads either as it has a 330W AC Adapter. The warranty is not as good as they only have a three year mail in option.
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GE76 Raider 11UH FHD 360Hz to WQHD or QHD
win32asmguy replied to JeanLegi's topic in Components & Upgrades
Really interested in the result for this. I wonder if the same process could be used to downgrade the CreatorPro X17 display from UHD 120hz to FHD 360hz without need for the cable adapter. -
I do not think its related to installed components. Mine has FHD display, 32GB CAMM and a single SSD. Its 3080Ti is limited to 120W regardless of driver installed, CPU power consumption, or GPU temperature. If a fix is found it would be great to test it out.
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Have you noticed any issues with games / apps with the 3080Ti active freezing in Hybrid graphics mode? I have also noticed that periodically I get a black screen on Chrome if a page has a video active. Using the latest posted Intel / Nvidia drivers from Dell on Windows 10. I haven't tried 22H2 yet to see if it helps but may later tonight.
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You did try adjusting IA AC LoadLine values, correct? So far as I know all of the bios from Dell still have it defaulting to an incorrect value resulting in very significant CPU overvolting increasing heat and reducing performance. I think with that adjustment, a good heatsink with good contact, it should be able to hit 17k in CBR23 with no e-cores, maybe up to 18k if you win the silicon lottery. Sustained would be less, likely in the mid 16k range but it is still a good boost over what 11900hk could do at higher power limits and noise. Also curious about eGPU results. I know someone had a 7760 with a Gen4 M.2 eGPU desktop 6900xt which scored over 20,000 in Timespy for comparison. With a setup with nice external displays its probably a significant frame rate boost over any mobile Nvidia chip, at decent pricing now that mining is in a dormant phase.
