Mr. Fox

@electrosoft I will have to wait for a BIOS update for the Z790i Edge, but using the Windows MC that Brother @Prema provided I can increase the VCCSA to 1.225V now without a hard freeze, so it does look like it may at least improve the SA bug. Will need it in the BIOS probably to know for sure if the SA bug gets eliminated. This is up from 1.190V, so not a lot but still more. I did test 1.250V and it will pass Cinebench without a lockup, but not AIDA64 memory benchmark without locking up. Maybe if I feel motivated enough tomorrow I will yank that CPU from the Edge and see if the SA bug is gone when installed in the Encore. Hopefully the effort to find out will not prove to be a waste of time.

Same and confirmed. All the same settings as before. No change in performance, voltage or thermals. Can't tell any difference at all. Now I question if there actually is any. Seems there is nothing whatsoever, but may be because of how I manually overclock almost everything and remove all limits. I will check to see if it affects the SA bug now on the CPU that has it. MSI has not released this for the Z790i Edge WiFi motherboard yet. So, I can't check for an SA bug fix using the Edge mobo until they do.

Not need to reply. I checked it out and see it is two separate downloads. That's great. Question: Does this change MC in Windows only? I flashed it, rebooted. BIOS still doesn't show 129. It shows whatever very is set. I use 11F, but there is a menu with other versions available. 129 is not in the list. But, when Windows loads AIDA64 shows 129. Edit Answered my own question. Booting into another OS on the same system AIDA64 shows 11F, so it does appear to apply 129 to the OS only. After applying the MC update in Windows it seems nothing is visibly different. Power draw, voltage, watts, amps... all exactly the same values in a Cinebench run. Micro$lop doesn't charge extra for Winduhz 11 being a sucky piece of crap. It is a free service they are happy to provide.

Nice to see you brother. Hope all is well with you. So this microcode update can flash only the microcode without the ME if you want to omit the ME update? If that's the case, then I won't update any of my BIOS on any my four desktops. I will just test the microcode on one of them first before deciding whether or not to apply it to the other three.

If you need fan control for your laptop, see if Argus Monitor will work. It works excellent for my desktops and even includes RGB controls that work for GPUs and some motherboards. I have not tried it on my Dell Precision yet because I rarely ever have a reason to use a laptop, but I am planning to the next time I have a reason to use it. I believe they have a trial version that you can test to see if it works before you buy. All of the motherboard control centers are the worst software imaginable. Armory Crate, MSI Dragon Center and Control Center, Gigabyte, ASROCK, Tong Feng, Alienware and Clevo all have universally horrible software support products. It seems like the laptop versions might be a little worse, but I won't allow any of their cancer garbage to be installed on my desktops.

All turdbooks are disgusting. I cannot identify any circumstance where I would be willing to purchase a modern notebook. They are all loathsome rubbish and detestable objects that stand as examples of human stupidity. This just adds a new dimension to the already-unacceptable rubbish that further reinforces the already-unlikely possibility that I would consider wasting my money on any of these trashy products.

Yes, that remains the same. They make the newer ME available for any fool that wants to flash it, but it is not bundled in the BIOS. I have never updated the ME on the Edge and I would never update it on ASUS if they didn't bundle the filth. It really sucks that ASUS does this. I really do not like many things about ASUS firmware. The menus are nice, but they do a lot of idiotic things. The way their motherboard have to "re-flash" firmware to another area when you flip the switch on the motherboard is absolutely idiotic. Dual BIOS should actually mean dual BIOS, not their hybrid abortion version of that. EVGA was the only motherboard manufacturer that has done everything right for a very long time.

If that fixes it, I might move the CPU in the Edge over to the Encore and put the 13900KS in the Edge. Their VF curves are almost the same, very close, but the 14900KF in the Edge with the SA bug has slightly better E-core and lower Cache voltage needs. If I remember correctly it can run the E-cores at 49x stable and the 13900KS caps out at 48x on E-cores. I only moved it to the Edge since the memory is air cooled and running it above 8200 is thermally not ideal. Unless something has changed, MSI still does it the right way and you have to deliberately download and flash the ME firmware if you want newer. They do not bundle the ME filth in their BIOS to form a cancer cocktail. Hopefully, that has not changed. ASUS really needs to stop doing that and add a BIOS menu option to disable the ME, because it is utterly worthless and contributes zero value to anything from a consumer perspective. If nothing else, it impairs security and never has anything to contribute in terms of improving performance. It should no longer even exist.

OK. I might test it on the Encore as a crash dummy. The MSI Edge will be last, if ever, since it does not have dual BIOS and if downgrading is not possible it will basically become worthless to me if I do not approve of the firmware changes.

Cinebench scores are the same?

My concern is that something undesirable might be permanent with the firmware update. If I do not like it and cannot undo it I will be super ticked off and have to replace the motherboard if downgrade is not possible. I am not worried about the SA bug (does not matter in the grand scheme of things) or the "problem" they are trying to fix. I am curious to see what it does, bit skeptical and cautious.

Hey Brother @Papusan here is the latest. Hurry, because newer is better. Tell all of your friends on Facepoot. 🤣 https://rog-forum.asus.com/t5/intel-700-600-series/raptorlake-resources/m-p/1034564/highlight/true#M24284

We have already seen your impressive tuning skills. I haven't seen many AM5 owners that can do what you do with the memory tuning on that platform. But, even with your incredible talent in play the results from the platform are generally not equal in terms of read, write, copy and latency at the same clock speed. That's the platform, not your well above-average abilities with it. Nice to see most of them are standing behind what they sell. Many (maybe most) of the customers that buy their PCs would never own it long enough to reach the time limit. But, offering it may bring most of them back when they are ready for an upgrade.

I guess that depends on how much headroom, where the road ends and if one is happy with the destination. The path being long and wide is kind of nice, but only if it leads to the place you want to go to. A one-hundred fold increase sounds impressive, but the end result is different starting from 1 than it is starting from 2.

People that prefer Intel won't care about what AMD brings. People that prefer AMD won't care what Intel brings. People that don't know what they don't know will believe those that they choose to believe or be extremely confused. $100 or $200 in price probably isn't going to change anyone's mind one way or the other unless they don't know anything and don't have a preference. Some people (the smart ones) decide everything based on what their experience was before and they don't forgive and forget bad experiences, or not very swiftly. Nor should they. They learn from their mistakes and are not keen on repeating them. Others have no experience and form a preference based on what someone else tells them they should think. Then there are those that have only had one experience, it was good, and they don't know what else is out there. And they don't care. They do not want to rock the boat and maintaining status quo is safe and easy. Most people treat products the same as politics. Everything is generally black versus white, light versus darkness, good versus bad, right versus left, God versus Satan, Conservative versus Liberal, Republican versus Demoncrat, etc. And, that's perfectly OK. At least you know where you stand with them. And, that is certainly better than not knowing. Those that hide in the shades of gray are the dangerous ones that will kill you when you're not paying attention. They don't choose sides and can't make up their mind about anything. They are confused, clueless and careless and easily influenced. Yeah, he shouldn't be writing for a tech website. I agree. He definitely is not a PC enthusiast, that's for sure. If he thinks he is, then he is a poser.

The punchline...

And, it looks like AMD has mirepresented the performance. They essentially accomplished nothing in two years. So, long story short, if you prefer AMD and want to move from AM4 to AM5 your best option is to upgrade to a last generation CPU. Our truth remains unchanged @Papusan. Newer is always better newer.

Must be why the price is lower. Lower base clock Only 100 Mhz higher boost clock Poor DDR5 overclocking Dramatically lower TDP Minimal or no performance improvements depending on workload It is a new CPU downgrade. That's pretty disappointing for my friends and family that like AMD. It is sad that so many things suck in the computer space right now. Lots of people are all emo about motherboard BIOS settings damaging Intel CPUs but when you zoom out it is pretty sucky by all measurements.

You cannot have an intelligent conversation with people like that. They are beyond help and they like believing what they want to believe. And he is wrong. They are all equally bad, at least among Intel, AMD, NVIDIA, Micro$lop, Crapple, Google, etc. You cannot trust any large company/industry (big tech, big pharma, etc.) or government to do what is best for the people it exists to serve exploit. That is not a conspiracy theory. It's an observation of their behavior.

This is the technology space we are talking about, so there is an underlying agenda or self-serving purpose somewhere. No company that operates in this realm ever does anything because it is the right thing to do for the people that purchase products. The price is lower because they can still make a profit and the lower price is forecast to make them more money in another way. At the very least they will profit on the heels of the calamity the media has crafted and the irrational behavior of consumers that will follow. That is already happening. At least half of what the world believes about everything is untrue, but they believe it because it is on TV and on the internet and at least half of the people are not smart enough to think for themselves.

Lots of new B650 broken gamerboy trash boards hitting store shelves. These motherboard manufacturers should be ashamed for release rubbish like this. They must not care about maintaining a good brand image and reputation.

That is the right thing to do, and extending it to OEM/tray CPUs is above and beyond what they are required to do. I do wonder if they are going to take the "no questions asked" high road approach or take the low road and ask if the CPU had been overclocked, set for eTVB or XMP applied and still declare the warranty void for the users that dare to answer honestly. All of the folks hoping for a microcode update really need to pull their heads out of their butts and be careful about what they hope for. Intel blocked voltage control for turdbook CPUs some time ago and things have never been right since then. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. The answer is not microcode updates or setting restrictions, but safe and sane firmware defaults.

The only reason to not recommend Intel is that most users have no idea how to manually tune their CPU and the mere thought of entering the BIOS is utterly terrifying to many of them. Many of them are buying cheaper CPUs and motherboards that are "good enough for gaming" so the i9 "problem" the media is chirping about may not even apply to many of them. I think there's a small group of them that buy the best even though they don't have a clue how to use it. In their case, it may be like giving a razor-sharp Samurai sword to a child and expecting them to not get hurt, or not hurt someone else, with it.