Mr. Fox

I view gaming as an extended form of benching. I pay as much attention to my system as I do the game. I own games that I do not like and having no interest in playing simply for the included benchmark. I love it when a game dev releases a free standalone benchmark tool like the one we are playing with because then I have no reason to purchase the game. It looks beautiful, but I can say with a fair level of confidence that I would not like playing the actual game. This applies also to the Final Fantasy benchmarks. You could not even pay me to play those games. On top of being subscription-based I think they are icky, (based on genre and gameplay style,) but the free standalone benchmarks are fun to run.

You should put something like this on it to allow air flow but direct it away from the system, either toward the ceiling or forward (into the room) and away from the bench. You could attach it with double-sided rubber tape or even use adhesive magnets if the backplate is not aluminum. It would look nice and probably be better for cooling. You could also attach it with a bead of T-7000 adhesive, which would be strong enough to hold it forever, but not so permanent that you could not remove it later if you wanted to. https://www.amazon.com/ORLANG-Marine-Louvered-Mounting-Suitable/dp/B0CS61SZ9K?th=1

Both of us have the updated PCB design without that weakened hook area.

I gritted my teeth and flashed the new BIOS again and found that DTPF setting present where expected. No idea why it is not visible in the January BIOS. So, I was able to test this benchmark with the Intel Optimizer and found it provided no benefit. FPS were the same as without it and it made it feel like the FPS was lower due to some stuttering. I hope I don't have the same issues with the M.2 port dropping out and the BIOS loading menus incorrectly. If that happens even once then it is back to the January BIOS. Crossing my fingers. So far, so good. I do like that MSI does not interfere with flashing older firmware and does not bundle the ME firmware cancer with their BIOS updates. I love that it is my decision and not theirs and I hate that ASUS doesn't leave that decision entirely up to my own discretion. So, each brand has its pros and cons. ASUS gives a lot of options, but neglects a couple of things I consider super important. EVGA was the best. If I were the king of the world and could do things my way, I would pick and choose the best each brand had to offer and reject their crap. There would be no restrictions on the choice of firmware versions that could be flashed, and no firmware signature crap. The BIOS would also include the ability to control the RGB/ARGB within the UEFI and eliminate the cancer software trash installed in the OS. Boards like the Apex wouldn't even have any RGB crap on them. I'd also shut down Micro$lop Store and ban the development of UWP smartphone app for PC filth.

That would be nice. Although, I am pretty sure that is never going to happen. You have to be part of the right clique and none of us are. Our results don't matter except to the extent that they become a threat to the Chosen Ones. I am pretty sure that CENS pursued the golden sample CPU that @tps3443 had because he wasn't "supposed to have it" and not because CENS actually wanted or needed it. Someone at Intel must have let it make its way into the retail channel by mistake. And, when he bought it from our Brother here it would not surprise me if it was with someone else's money. Well, this benchmark runs nice enough on 3090 Ti FTW3 if you don't go too crazy on the settings. There is no NVIDIA frame generation or DLSS 3.0 on pre-40 series RTX, so cranking the settings will crush it just as it does the 4090 with frame generation disabled. UE5 has its own though, and works fairly well. This system is connected to two 1440p displays for work.

I would not even be able to test the Intel Application Optimizer on the Z790I Edge if I wanted to. I was going to see if it made any difference with the 3090 Ti but the menu option for Intel DTPF is missing from where it is supposed to be according to MSI documentaion (right below the setting for CFG Lock). I wish I knew what the key combo is for MSI desktop firmware developer mode to access all menus. The old key combo that worked on laptops does not work on the desktop motherboard. It is stupid that MSI also hides the IA VR Limit menu. So, you cannot set a cap on the VRM voltage output (and therefore can't limit VCore properly) in their firmware. Super dumb.

The nice thing about 4 FPS is if you blink while watching you only miss one or two frames.

OK this benchmark draws insane amounts of power for some reason if run on Windows 11. And, it is not only during shader compiling. It's from start to finish. Just for giggles I wanted to see if the FPS got better or worse, so I booted into Windows 11. I tripped my circuit breaker twice and had to leave my work computer turned off when testing on Windows 11 for some reason. I almost never use Windows 11 and now I find myself wondering if that (Windows 11) has something to do with the Intel CPU degradation being complained about. This did not happen on Windows 10 (circuit breaker tripping thing). It seems like the power utilization spirals out of control on Windows 11, but does not when I am running the benchmark on Windows 10. On Windows 11, my framerates are higher by about 5 FPS, but the power draw increases by more than the minor increase in FPS. The WireView meter on the 4090 Suprim shows up to 490W (almost 100W more than Windows 10 does) and almost 100W more on the CPU on Windows 11. My Kill-A-Watt showed up to 790W being pulled from the wall, almost the entire duration of the benchmark the GPU is above 400W and over 700W from the wall the entire time while the benchmark is running. That is a bug in the game, not unique to you. I experienced exactly the same thing. To get the scale to 66 in the benchmark I have to set it to 67 or the benchmark runs at 65%. But the scores are identical with 65 or 66. No measurable difference. This benchmark is also very consistent. Back-to-back runs stay the same in terms of FPS and vary by zero to 1 FPS between runs. 65 (settings show 66) 66 (settings show 67)

So, I ran this on the Apex and it fell in the middle between your results and the Encore results previously submitted. I think this is all within a margin of error. When framerates are too low to be playable they no longer matter if it is 1 or 2 FPS difference. OK, I have to lead an operations meeting in a few minutes, but I will try that later.

@electrosoft just FYI. I went back to the old (January) BIOS on the Z790I Edge motherboard. The new BIOS with 0x129 MC was causing one of my M.2 slots to randomly stop working. I noticed it because one of my SN770 SSDs that I use for data/file storage at work was randomly disappearing. I could tell when it was going to not work because it would go through a couple of boot cycles like memory training. Sometimes it would come back after a reboot, but I also noticed when the M.2 port would go AWOL in the BIOS was showing me menus for MSI Developer mode. So something buggy with their BIOS. After going back to the old BIOS I have had no more issues with that M.2 port vanishing. I doubt it is the MC change. Probably something else MSI buggered up with the firmware modifications to appease those that want Intel defaults.

It was enabled when I ran it, so that base was covered. I disabled it and disabled DTPF in the BIOS and the lost FPS was recovered (identical avg/min/max FPS) and it no longer is extra stuttery feeling like it is with DTPF enabled with the Optimizer turned on.

Well the Intel Optimizer (with DTPF enabled in the BIOS) actually hindered performance. Decreased my results by 1 FPS but also looks more stuttery than it does with it disabled. It looks like the App doesn't have any support for this game. Metro Exodus is the only one listed that I play. Most of the supported games I either do not own or have zero interest in owning/playing them. I am going to check some of CPU benchmarks to see if they were diminished and probably disable that in the BIOS. I have always hated DTPF and Intel ME feces. It doesn't look like I have any legitimate need for it or the Optimizer app.

Does this require DTPF be enabled in the BIOS? I have that disabled. I don't like it. The Optimizer says "Failed to Connect" probably because of that.

I've never installed that Intel Optimizer thing. I may tr it. My boost is only holding 2775. So, you're 200MHz higher on core, which would explain that 2 FPS difference. I will try the Intel Optimizer first and see if that makes any difference, and then lock my boost to match yours and see what it does.

Oh, that's right. I forgot. Your ambients are probably not as high as mine are. I would imagine it would be getting even hotter than that if they were. Even if it is not the best silicon quality and won't overclock as high as some that are better, it should do everything you do in terms of gaming extremely well. More likely that it is "average" rather than "poor" quality. I ran all these on the Gigabyte 4090. I will try the same on the 4090 Suprim to see if there is a difference. That GPU is better bin than the Gigabyte GPU.

OK, now it is a slideshow. Not as good as your prediction. Motion blur takes a little more VRAM, but otherwise performance is the same. With your chiller you are getting a couple of extra frames probably because the GPU is holding boost fully. I am not using the chiller and my office is 81°F (27°C) and not holding max boost clock due to that. (Core max 69.3°C and hotspot 88.9°C with the hot ambient temps.) FPS identical with motion blur disabled, but VRAM slightly less used.

OK. Here you go, Brother. Not quite the slideshow expected but a much lower FPS.

I am not sure what that means if you can clarify what setting to try. There is no option to turn off DLSS in the benchark, but I ran every combo I could identify with DLSS, FSR, TSR and XeSS, RT set on Very High on all. Most games like this are very boring to me. Not enough action to hold my attention like a FPS.

The game has great graphics no matter what settings are chosen. Very good appearance. I am so glad the benchmark is free. Now I don't need to buy the game to get the benchmark. (Not a fan of the RPG genre, so it is highly unlikely that I will buy it.) For comparison: 14900KF @ 59x-P, 48x-E, 52x Cache Memory @ 8400 CL38 4090 Stock Display @ 4K 144Hz DLSS, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation On DLSS, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation Off DLSS, RT OFF, Frame Generation On DLSS, RT OFF, Frame Generation OFF FSR, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation On TSR, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation On XeSS, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation On DLSS SR 100%, DLSS, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation On DLSS SR 100%, RT On-Very High, Frame Generation OFF

LOL. Any man that doesn't love his friends and family is either a liar or a monster. Any man that is scared to admit it because they are worried someone is going to think they are queer needs to seek professional help. I think the underlying issue is many confusing love as being somehow related to carnal instincts and they're totally different. It is sad to know that the former is totally missing from the lives of some people, while the latter is something we have in common with animals.

I can hardly wait to watch this movie. 🤣 Looks like it will be pretty hilarious.

Brother @Papusan I hope tomorrow you enjoy a wonderful day. Thanks for being such a good friend to all of us here in the forums. May tomorrow be the first day of your best year of life.

I hate it when hardware needs a specific operating system for the hardware features to work. That is super scummy. It is especially scummy if it is an operating system that sucks and you don't want to use it, but it is the only way the feature will function because of collusion between software developer and hardware manufacturer. That should be against the law. Hardware features should be required to be OS agnostic and the sale of the hardware banned if it is not.

I forgot how different overclocking was with this old stuff. What seems like very high voltage now is normal back then. XMP default OC voltage for DDR3 is 1.650V and bumping it to 1.700V is better. The colors of the values do not change to red until like 1.750V and that is the low end of the red range. VCore using an ASUS "watercooled OC gaming profile" is 1.550V. And, even with that high of voltage look at the reasonable temperatures... Core max 78°C with an AIO. Big die... big IHS... less heat bottleneck. But, everyone just loves a die shrink. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. Newer is better newer. Smaller is better hotter. The truth will set you free. https://hwbot.org/submission/5623603