Mr. Fox

For me without the chiller 5.8 with 1.250V under load in Cinebench is 100-105°C with ambient temperaturs of 80°F without the chiller. Gaming is fine that way for sure, nowhere even close to those temperatures, but not benching the CPU.

I thought that way initially, but then logic kicked in and I realized it just can't be true. How is using thermal paste with direct die not better than solder+IHS+thermal paste? You're still using thermal paste, but with extra crap in between to trap the heat. The closer you can get the cooling plate to the die the better your temps will be unless something does not fit correctly. Imagine how horrible laptop temperatures would be if they were not direct die. They'd be totally unusable. So, you would be going backwards a little bit, but it would/should still be measurably better than with the IHS. Maybe when I delid this 14900KF I received yesterday I will compare stock with thermal paste, direct die with thermal paste, and then direct die with liquid metal with no chiller and see how those numbers look. Imagine how much worse your temps would be without the chiller. The chiller makes up for a lot of thermal management problems on a CPU that is not delidded and direct die. You'd be down probably 300 MHz and about 30°C hotter if you didn't drop 200-300 MHz to cope with it. In fact, your CPU probably would not be usable at the clock speeds you are running now with the chiller if you did not have the chiller. You'd be limited to 5.6 or 5.7 GHz tops and that would be hitting above 100°C. And, the only reason I know this is because I only run the chiller for benching. The main difference is my ambient temperatures are probably 10°-15°F higher than yours on my hottest summer days.

That makes sense. And I suspect I haven't had the issues since I don't run the chiller all the time. Have you tried running a really good thermal paste on bare die instead of liquid metal? I suspect that would hold up better. I had to on the 5950X because of the chiplets. Liquid metal worked poorly and was worse than stock solder because the chiplets had a very minor z-height difference between them and liquid metal did not make good enough contact. The temps with liquid metal were worse than thermal paste due to poor contact and thermal paste was identical to stock solder, so the entire thing was a monumental waste of time and money. If I were still using a Supercool direct die setup like yours that would be a deal-ender having to reapply the liquid metal that often. The IceMan direct die is far less cumbersome and no different than removing an ordinary water block. No need to break out paper towel and worry about leaking o-rings, etc. The extra effort required was why I stopped using it. Just for giggles I should try thermal paste with the IceMan to see how it works. I have never used anything except liquid metal.

Very nice. I haven't gone back to 8600. I used to run it all the time. I may try it again. I stopped only because 8400 with tighter timings produced the same performance and benchmark scores, but I do miss seeing 8600 just because many people can't do it and it is somewhat of a bragging right for that reason. It just feels good to run a system 24/7 beyond what most are capable of and I do miss that. That is a very nice CPU. But, why are you glad to be back on solder? I got my 14900KF from cletus-cassidy today (which he got from MarkDeMark) and it has not been delided. The IHS has been lapped, but it still runs hotter at 5.7 GHz with lower voltage than my bare die CPU does at 5.9 GHz with higher voltage. It is a great CPU and I am happy with it. But, I can hardly wait to get it on bare die. It's just way too hot with the factory solder unless I run it on chilled water. I think I am going to put one of my systems back on the open bench again. I'm getting tire of the vertical motherboard arrangement, so I will probably sell the be quiet! Dark Base Pro 901 and just live with the dust. I did get an air purifier about a week ago and it has helped a great deal with the dust in my office. I do love the Dark Base Pro 901, but the horizontal orientation of motherboards is just way superior compared to a vertical orientation. Every time I see the Praxis Wetbench in my closet I wish I was still using it. I'm so glad I did not sell it like I was thinking I might.

I'm using my phone at the moment so I don't have access to the "idiots everywhere" monkey animated GIF, but we have all seen that enough you can form the mental picture. When we get past all of the anger, disappointment, and disgust, what we are left with is a tragic picture of how the unprecedented stupidity of human beings is on a massive scale now. It leaves us with a very bleak forecast for the future of the human race. Maybe one of the reasons they are pushing AI so hard is the realization that being an illiterate, ignorant, stupid, corrupt, morally bankrupt, perverted, socially retarded imbecile is swiftly becoming the new normal for the human race. I am seeing similar behavior with the forum function. Seems like it. Doesn't make sense, but... See above. Status quo. Wrong people. Wrong thought processes. Wrong behavior. Wrong focus. Wrong information. Nothing goes right when stupid is normal. UL and HWBOT, to name only two among countless examples, are run by people such as those described above. Being intelligent, possessing knowledge, having experience, being resourceful, moral, decent, kind and honest will probably become illegal and saying stuff like this about it, in public or in the privacy of your home, or teaching your children to recognize it, will become a felony. I use the SC delete to remove ButtLocker. I replied to your post @Papusan. https://community.hwbot.org/topic/234462-3dmark-steel-nomad/?do=findComment&comment=667663

Vulkan - GPU 645W power draw core clock 3135 @ 1.100V and +1500 memory offset / no chiller @ 82°F ambient DX12 - 602W power draw core clock 3135 @ 1.100V and +1500 memory offset / no chiller @ 82°F ambient

Here is a useful tip that I discovered exploring my curiosity. I have all of the DLC keys for 3DMark and whenever I install it this saves me a few minutes of having to enter each key manually and navigate back to the options page to enter the next key 5 times. (It is a bit annoying to have to navigate back to that page after entering each key.) After all of your keys have been entered for 3DMark, simply export this registry key. The next time you install 3DMark, restore the key before, during or after the benchmark installation and you're good to go. Much more convenient. HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\UL\3DMark And, if you haven't already tried this OS mod, it is better than Atlas, (which is good,) and much better than Ghost Spectre. It includes a premodded ISO with garbage removed. I am testing W10 and W11 versions of it and not seeing the CPU performance degradation most of the OS mods produce and both have less than 60 processes running after a clean install. Includes nifty tools, WinAero Tweaker and StartIsBack preinstalled. All of the unimportant trash and bloat is gone and nothing is broken. https://windowsxlite.com/ Special Note: I am going to recommend that anyone that values their sanity and a functional private network needs to avoid the late 2023 and 2024 versions of both W10/W11 as the Redmond Reprobates, in their infinite idiocy, have decided that Peer Networking services on a private network is too dangerous and those services were removed from Winduhz. They also made changes to file permissions and I had to manually reassign ownership of the content on all data drives after getting rid of the latest versions of these cancer OSes. Content on shared drives was no longer accessible to other computers on my home network after the new filth was installed due to no longer having permission to access the content. I can think of better things to do with my time than fix their stupid mistakes. I only know this because I wasted my time testing the latest versions of X-Lite not knowing those brain-damaged imbeciles had done that. My home network became worthless to both of those OSes and some Google searching trying to fix it revealed this was a deliberate manifestation of a lack of intelligence on the part of Micro$lop. I guess it is OK to allow these evil-hearted morons to steal your data and use it as they deem fit, force you to have a buttload of unwanted crap baked into the OS, and track how you use your computers, but it's way too dangerous for you to be permitted to access your own computers and files on a private network. I wish only bad things and a tragic future for them as a company.

You always seem to be blessed with fantastic luck getting getting less than horrible CPUs through retail channels and I have the exact opposite experience. The last half dozen I bought new were junk that wasn't worth owning. I have to pay new (or slightly higher) prices for used CPUs the seller doesn't want just to avoid getting worthless garbage. Maybe God is trying to send a message to me that I need to stop wasting my money on computers. It's never been harder to be happy with my purchases than it has been the past couple of years. And, the dung fest Winduhz has shaped up to be is so repulsive that I have a difficult time finding words to accurately describe the magnitude of my disappointment, rage and disgust with Micro$lop. (I can think of some, but my parents raised me better than to use horrible words like that.) Maybe the nicest thing I can say is that I detest what a loathesome bunch of brain-dead monkeys they have become and hate their digital cancer even more than those stupid monkeys. Looks like UL is getting dumber each time I visit the web page. Classic Search doesn't show the newer benchmark and the new search style is garbage. As best I can tell just about all the new cartoon benchmarks that are higher than mine are overclocked above 3000 on core. It's hard to tell using the crappy new search tool. It's got too many limitations to be useful and shows me stuff I don't care about. If they wanted to do something intelligent they would add a filter to toggle stock and overclock. If their AI isn't broken they could identify anything higher that reference GPU AMD/NVIDIA boost clocks and flag everything higher as overclocked.

Thank you. I did not even notice you could change the API. I will try that. I don't know the technical reason why, other tham Micro$lop is just a chintzy organization run by stupid goons. Vulkan is almost always better. DX12 has always sucked in varying degrees of suckiness. But, when you are a lousy company run by idiots then nobody should expect anything but smelly brown stuff to ooze from your bottom.

My 14900KF with the "SA Bug" is a good CPU. I run it 24/7 with the memory at 8200 CL36 with about 1.175V VCCSA on the MSI ITX mobo and it is solid. This is a pretty silly benchmark. Scores are about the same with e-cores disable as with them enabled. Not impressed. I think it is crappier than Port Royal due to no ray tracing and I have always hated Port Royal. No way in hell this replaces Time Spy unless the person trying to measure overall system performance is an ignoramus. Here is a run with the GPU stock. Maybe a replacement for Speed Way but I think Speed Way is actual more taxing than this cartoon benchmark. I think what we are seeing here is hardware under-utilization. It doesn't seem like anything is working all that hard in the process. Roughly the equivalent of a typical game run at 4K, so nothing to write home about.

I ran it before I posted just so I could have a valid basis to speak on the topic. My score seemed lower than I expected compared to other submissions (mine was like 9950 or something) but I did not look at the others to see if they were overclocking the GPU. I just ran it stock so I could see if there was anything to be happy or complain about. There was neither a reason to be happy nor one to complain. It just seems like a silly toy benchmark rather than a legit test of system performance. As such it seems like of a pointless endeavor aimed at entertainment more than a meaningful benchmark. It was comical to me that they added audio for the kiddos. Besides not seeming nearly stressful enough to be meaningful, it seemed extremely short. They must be worried about turdbooks overheating if it runs more than a couple of minutes. The only thing I really think is worth complaining about is UL's approach in general, overall. They suck now, but so do most of the other players in the PC tech space.

Absolutely repulsive. Welcome to the bottomless pit of trash.

Unfortunately, I think the US Government (and probably many others, including Russia and CCP,) do nothing because they piggyback on the technology to conduct illegal clandestine surveillance of the surfs over which they believe themselves to be entitled to play god. I suspect all members of NATO are of the same corrupt mindset. We saw their worst manifest during the COVID social-engineering Nazi lockdowns, and what better way to monitor obeisance of the sheeple and identify any goats mingled in flock than AI-facilitated "Skynet" to see every move, whether at home on your computer, or on the go with your smartphone? If they don't approve of what you do, say, think, who your friends are, who your enemies are (them) and what you believe or how you act they know where to find you and will have proof of your non-compliance. Resistance, daring to say no, expressions of disapproval, disruption of the echo chamber, challenging public school system propaganda, or similar acts of anti-woke defiance and non-compliance are viewed as domestic terrorism, "violent insurrection" or racist hate crimes, and inprisonment requires no trial or prosection. AI will be the golden calf that they worship because it makes it all possible. Until all of our world's governments are run by social mavericks, anti-establishment rebels and insurrectionists (aka normal, decent people) that are willing to seek and destroy the woke cabals of the world, say no to nonsense and govern based on the will of the people they are blessed with the privilege of serving things will continue steadily on the current path of decline.

I think there should be laws on the books that prevent it from existing and making it illegal from the start so there would be no reason for them to produce filth like that, and nothing to disable or opt out, or have off by default. There's no sound or reasonable logic to support allowing it to exist at the OS level. If they say it goes nowhere and screenshots stay on your computer, then it raises questions about the honesty, ethical integrity and intelligence of the people/companies that would create an idiotic piece of surveillance trash that does that; or the corrupt governments that would even allow them to. This is a moral failure and a betrayal of basic decency that goes way beyond allowing a company to collect information, with special and deliberate grant of permission, about how you utilize software they provided to you at no cost, or what you do while you are on their web site if you agree to allow it to be collected. If bastards like Nadella and Cook were arrested and prosecuted and held accountable for anything that companies like theirs produce this would end immediately.

If other companies or people did some of the things Micro$lop and crApple, Facepoot and Google do they/we would be subject to criminal or civil prosecution for information theft, illegal surveillance and privacy violations. I abhor government involvement 95% of the time, but this AI/Copilot/Recall crap is a good example of something that governments should regulate, outlaw, impose severe criminal sanctions and levy brutal financial penalties against. Hey Steel Nomad has audio now. The kiddos are going to be so excited. Who needs stressful benchmarks when you can just watch a short cartoon that doesn't make you feel bad that you have a wimpy CPU in your chintzy craptop box or mobile turdbook? We don't need to know how well everything works. We only need to confirm that our GPU can render the cartoons and make sure that the speakers are working. Good enough for the peanut gallery. Steel Nomad is going to be a godsend for UL's hardware chronies as well. If the sheeple can't tell from the benchmark that they bought a broken piece of crap with a defective thermal management system they will be less likely to return it.

If the zombie horde can be persuaded to believe CPU and memory performance are unimportant and only GPU matters this will make things even worse for AMD. That would be very bad for everyone. Although I will not likely purchase anything they make, I want them to remain solvent and engaged so that Intel and NVIDIA remain pressured. As it stands right now they are already not being very aggressive in their efforts to compete in the GPU space. Given that they already don't bring much to the table, the buzz we are hearing now about RDNA4 being nothing more than a bug fix doesn't bode well for them. It's comical that UL takes the "everyone gets a trophy for participating" approach by lowering the bar with a "Lite" version of the benchmark for anemic trash PCs. UL buying 3DMark and the introduction of the Swiss Army knife crap 3DMark Suite marked a point of tragedy for PC enthusiasts, and that was when they started circling the drain and exhibiting signs of dementia. Finding respect for any of the decision-making morons, mentally handicapped "leaders" and self-anointed "influencers" in the world that we live in has never been more difficult. Looking for something nice to say about any of them... but, I've got nothing. I have only contempt and ridicule for their epic worthlessness and abject failures. We have a pandemic of stupidity. It's highly contagious and far more deadly than their experimental COVID-19 social engineering stunt was.

Entertainment is more important to the kiddos than a true test of overall system performance. We need look no further than the chintzy toy crap they are selling on the hardware side, like handheld gaming devices. The stupid tech trash bin is bottomless and there is never a shortage of poop-eating bottom-feeders. UL lost my respect when they started making smartphone benchmarks. I lost even more respect for the users of UL benchmarks that got excited about smartphone benchmarks. "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked." - John The Apostle (Book of Revelation) "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy" - Ida Auken "One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not." - Alexandre Dumas

Small and cute AI keyboards are for small-minded people whose intelligence is artificial.

Maybe the "artificial intelligence" refers to the mental capacity of those who will buy it because it has "AI" associated with it. It doesn't need to be true or accurate, as long as they believe it. @Papusan maybe it would be wise for us all to use toothpaste instead of thermal compound because everyone knows how the minty-fresh toothpaste makes your mouth feel so much cooler when you inhale immediately after brushing your teeth. It's only logical that if it makes your mouth feel cool it will make your CPU feel like it is cooler, even if it is not.

Older is often better, right @Papusan?

I cannot imagine being happy with a lidded CPU, even with chilled water. The overclocking is far too limited even with water near freezing point unless the CPU is bare die. I suppose if I didn't care as much about overclocking and primarily used a PC for work and gaming I might feel differently. I don't expect a crazy good overclock on my munchkin ITX system I use for work, but I would care if I did not have another option available for benching.

Did something happen to your good CPU? That one would be going back for a refund. I RMA'd four 14th Gen with similarly high voltage requirements.

It is rewarding in a kind of disgusting, sadistic way, to see them coming under fire. Every experience I have had with them as it relates to warranty/RMA matters over the past eight or so years has demonstrated to me that they lack honor and integrity and are not a trustworthy company. They screw everyone with overpriced products at the cash register and then screw them a second time if they need help with a product failure or defect.

I had to Google it because I did not remember what a 56K warning was.