Mr. Fox

Awesome stuff bro.

Fanboys might not like the unvarnished truth, but I don't care. You can polish a turd all you want to. It doesn't change what it is or how it smells. https://www.overclock.net/posts/29467737/

This is true, but not because I like it or want to. I hate it to put it bluntly. And, this is because almost everything is priced beyond the level of performance the price tag suggests it should offer and most of it delivers very poor value. Also because most of the overpriced "enthusiast" computer parts are crippled and gimped rainbow puke rubbish made to please the children of wealthy and/or financially foolish parents rather than actual enthusiast-grade components. While it is not quite to the same magnitude, it feels very similar to the absolute contempt that I hold for turdbooks now. I'm not ever going to be happy about wasting my money (small or large sums) on overpriced, mediocre, crippled garbage that is slopped out to market, often many months later than promised, with insufficient quantity, with unresolved defects, without sufficient QC and shoddy warranty service. I absolutely still prefer 1dpc motherboards but the options are almost non-existent and the one or two options available now are designed in a careless, reckless and haphazard manner, without adequate regard for overall functionality. (This is true of most motherboards now, regardless of how many memory slots they have.) When you can get essentially the same performance from a 2dpc board that is a dead giveaway that the 1dpc option was just a half-assed cash grab that was crafted as something to sell to suckers (like me) that dare to hope that they will receive something awesome for their money. I was very disappointed with the X870E Apex, but I expected it to be a disappointment. That is why I cancelled the pre-order several times. I bought it with the hope that I would be wrong, but I wasn't. It may as well have been released as an iTX motherboard.

No. In fact, I am probably going to sell the Gene and purchase another X870E AORUS Master. The Gene is as great as it can be, but the mATX form factor is an impediment in terms of the connectivity I want. I have only one slot for the Sabrent card. It works and doesn't hinder the GPU but it is PCIe 3.0 X1. The Master gives me two usable X4 slots (X16 size) to use as I wish without affecting the GPU, NVMe or SATA. If I were interested in a SFF build it would definitely be a keeper.

As soon as this happens I will be ready.

No more procrastination.

Ah ha! You were being sarcastic. I love sarcasm. Yeah, I can hardly wait to buy my next FE GPU. (Yes, more sarcasm, plus there can be no next without a first. I do not intend for there to be one.) Size is subjective. Those two SFF builds I did in the past year or so really illustrated how relative the perception can be. I was amazed by how much performance fit into a midget-sized package. But, to everyone else it was like, "Huh? What? Small? That's not small. It's just not as massive as your other computers." The way I see it is, if I can hold onto it and walk across the room with it tucked under one arm or move it somewhere else without having to use both hands to wrangle it, then to me it's SFF.

Small and densely packed jigsaw puzzle computers make me angry. I really do not care for SFF. Kind of like sitting in the middle seat on a 4-hour flight between two extra-fat and sweaty people that can't fit into the seat space allocated. Even the SFF builds I have done were 'too big' for SFF fanboys. Those that are too big can also be frustrating. O11D XL size is near perfect.

The card has like a 350W power limit, so 2X PCIe power is fine. Unless building in a small case or one with obstructions, end mount power cables are ideal. I loved that about the 3090 Ti FTW3. This one would be good in a SFF build. Especially one with the chimney design with the GPU mounting vertical and on end. It is loud, but as you said, it is not a whine as much as high velocity air noise. It really dumps tons on heat out of the rear I/O. And, yikes... It did run hot (over 100°C memory junction and like 95°C hotspot). Remarkably similar temps to the 9070 XT. And, like the 9070 XT, it improved with better/thinner pads and I replaced the PTM pad with Duronaut. This thing has a large copper heatsink and vapor chamber. The Titan blower cards have similar thermals. Overall, for a brand new GPU (as advertised) this was a really good value. I am not making it my primary use GPU, but it's good to have another toy in the toy chest and a backup part if something dies unexpectedly or you need something to use during a warranty claim/repair. https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/133507978 I think tomorrow I am going to put the Gene back in the Antec C8, box up the Apex and return it for a refund. It is expensive but doesn't offer me any notable performance gains over the Gene or Master, and has an unforgivable appointment of PCIe slots. I really irks the crap out of me that the only usable PCIe slot apart from the GPU is the one right above it. I do not like having the Sabrent card on top of the GPU. I don't like the fact that using the PCIe X16 slots below the GPU slot cut the GPU bandwidth to X8 (inexcusable - Gigabyte wins here). I think getting back $800 will yield more personal benefit than what the Apex can deliver. I feel like there is nothing to be gained by keeping it. It's functional limitations combined with little or no performance gains are the deciding factors here.

I don't need it. I just today received a brand new 3080 from Israel that has more of them for under $350. These are like what they use in servers so they're a bit loud and hot, but I can fix that. An aftermarket backplate and waterblock will do the trick. This is indeed brand new and it shipped in generic whitebox type of packaging as though it was never intended for retail consumer distribution. Works like a normal 3080 though. Just stripped down with a crappy blower cooler. They've got more old stock on hand. https://www.ebay.com/itm/187160768672

Honestly, that's the reason I am running an AMD platform. I took a look at how Core Ultra dumbed everything down and I was instantly uninterested. I've had no problems whatsoever with degradation on Gen13/14 and had the new Core Ultra been a worthy successor to 14900KS it is where I would be now. 9950X nudges out 14900KS by a margin on most things. But, not by much. 9950X only really distances itself from 14900KS in Cinebench and similar workloads because of not having any slow baby cell phone Atom cores that lack hyperthreading. I've watched the trailers and it looks amazing. There has never been a DOOM title that I haven't liked and each new version in the franchise is better than the last. I will be grabbing it when I see it available for $25 or less. I did not notice it was released. I watched the trailers some months back before it was released.

Thanks for the suggestions, Brother John. Still trying to decide if I am going to keep it or return it within the 30-day window. It's nice in some ways, but not worth the sacrifices it requires in some aspects of functionality or the added cost. I cancelled the pre-order three times, but the allure of an Apex was too great. But, it is falling short of my expectations as a former Intel Apex owner. If I return it I will probably replace it with another AORUS Master and be done. It leaves more to be desired than I expected.

Mine was so dry that I was able to save what I removed by rolling it up in a ball and putting it in a sealable plastic container. It would be useful in a spot where there are numerous components of varying heights in a small area that need some degree of cooling, even if it is not the best possible TIM. I did that on the 9070 XT with two inductors and MOSFETs that were away from the others and close together in a small space. But nowhere else. I could only see using this putty to be a good idea instead of a bunch of tiny thermal pads placed on individual parts clustered together that might fall out of the intended position or placement during reassembly. When I took the GPU apart there was no sort of leakage and no mess to clean up. Just this putty that was not a challenge to clean up. Most thermal putty is very sticky and when you take things apart it is caked into cracks and crevices and a real pain in the butt to clean up completely. If I had to identify a similarity of the material to something else it was more like a bread dough with flour rubbed onto the outside and left to rise rather than a gooey putty or gelatinous material.

I need to look but they are all 13900KS/14900KF/KS. No 12th Gen parts. I have a Celeron as well. I used it for testing purposes. The one in the motherboard now is a SP108 13900KS. It possibly is lower CPU clock speed. I typically do not have PBO enabled. Usually set 55/54 core clocks manually.

I got rid of the worthless "server-grade thermal conductive gel" in short order on the 9070 XT Elite. It was junk. And, it also is not "gel" at all. It is a putty that is dry and not very sticky. I replaced it with 1.0mm 13 w/mK pads, put Duronaut on the core and added 3.0mm pad covering the back of the GPU. Brought down all temps between 5° and 10°C depending on what part(s) you are measuring. Hotspot and memory junction temps are no longer at or above 90°C as they were with the stock trash. @jaybee83 here are some settings you can mess with for 24GB modules. (Note that they are slower overall than 16GB modules at a given clock speed, same as Intel. 24GB need looser timings than 16GB modules, so you only gain with higher clock speeds, not tighter timings. Two steps forward, one step backward.) These are stable settings. Runs TM5 without error until the modules hit 60°C on air and error out. So I have what I plan to be a temporary build so I can see how many of the LGA1700 CPUs are good (confirm which ones are dead to be more accurate) so I can sell them... or something. I am using a Strix Z790-E that I bought new for 50% off because the box had minor damage. Funny thing is, the "damage" to the box looks like most boxes normally do for me. They are never flawless boxes when I buy a new motherboard. I'm surprised that it is running an 8000 EXPO profile just fine. It's actually a nice mobo... for a 4-DIMM normie-boy gamerkid part.

Who would have ever thought that GPU core clock speeds (in MHz) would be smaller than the base price (pre-tax) price tags on NVIDIA GPUs? Historically, the exact opposite has been true. Looks like the new price model is more than $1 per MHz.

No, not using the CPU and RAM I own. 8000-8200 was where they tapped out in the Gene. Those parts do better with the Apex but it is mostly a draw. The biggest win for the Apex is the fact that it is not mATX. The Gene is as great as it can be considering when it was made in spite of its form factor.

So, I hadn't intended to hurry up and sell the Gene, but a guy on OC.net approached me and really wanted it. We agreed on the price but when it came time to consummate the sale the shipping cost to India was insane and they were going to charge him like another $150 in duties and taxes, which came to over $300 extra counting the shipping. I will keep kicking the tires on the Apex for another week or two and if I decide to keep it I will sell the Gene at that time. I feel sad for the guy because motherboards like the Gene and Apex apparently are not sold in India. You can only buy mainstream consumer garbage that none of us (or he) would want to purchase.

Because I wanted to confirm that I was going to keep the Apex before disturbing the chassis with the AORUS Master. Whenever I get around to delidding the CPU in the Apex I will swap cases with the motherboards. The only thing that saved the Apex from RMA was my ability to use the top X4 PCIe slot with the Sabrent Quad NVMe card. Otherwise, I'd be getting my money back today. It still sucks that it has other worthless PCIe slots that castrate the GPU to X8. I think I may still like the AORUS Master better overall. Will see if that opinion changes as I get used to tweaking the Apex. One feature that I LOVE to pieces on the Apex is this new Q-Dashboard screen. You can interactively click through all of the attached devices, see what is connected to them, etc. It is stinking awesome. I also like that you can change the display resolution in the BIOS to FHD instead of the lower default resolution. Yeah... neither one of those things worked. Bottom PCIe slot may as well not exist. Waste of SMDs, solder and an X16 socket. They should have knocked $20 off the price and skipped it. It has a rubber dust plug in it now. Worthless. Just like the two PCIe 5.0 M.2 slots under the GPU. Their existence is pointless and a demonstration of engineering incompetence.

Maybe my excitement about using the top X4 slot not ruining the motherboard caused me to speak too soon on bifurcation issues. Using the bottom PCIe slot with a PCIe card is definitely a no-go. GPU gets castrated to X8 if I do. It's fortunate that the top X4 slot allows me to use it or the Apex would be flat-out rejected as an unacceptable product. The AORUS Master still has it beat here. Gigabyte did it right. All three of the PCIe X16 slots can be populated without effing up the GPU lanes. So I have 9 NVMe installed in the Master without affecting the GPU and it looks like the Apex is going to limit me to 7. Same as the Gene except for the Gene runs the Sabrent card at X1. I'm going to try disabling USB4 in the BIOS and see if that changes anything with the PCIe bifurcation and lane distribution since I have no use for USB4. I am also going to test an X1 PCIe card in the bottom slot and see if it still kicks the GPU in the gonads. C'mon ASUS, pull your head out. If none of those tweaks works, then I'm going to put a dust plug in the bottom PCIe slot since will be viewed as worthless waste of motherboard space to me. Not sure why the idiots included it if it can't be used without pooping on the GPU.

OK Brother @jaybee83 I just installed the Apex. I have not updated the BIOS, just disabled TPM, Secure Boot, WiFi, BT. Left all of the CPU settings on Auto, manually set an 8400 memory overclock (not tuned, just set what I thought would work) and *BOOM* - it worked. This shipped with a pre-release BIOS so since it is dual BIOS I will leave that alone and try one of the recent uploads from Safedisk on the secondary BIOS chip. Also noticing no bifurcation issues. Sabrent NVMe Quad card running in top X4 slot and GPU is still X16. I am only using the upper Gen5 M.2 slot on the motherboard, both DIMM.2 and the Quad NVMe card. I left the other M.2 slots empty to avoid cutting the CPU back to X8. Time to hit the sack. Will see if tomorrow I can get some play time after celebrating Mother's Day with my best friend, Mrs. Fox. Next projects will be to delid the second 9950X and tune the memory and CPU overclock. @Papusan and @johnksss having a backplate didn't do anything for the bowed motherboard. It's bowed just like the Intel Apex and Apex Encore were. It wasn't flat until I mounted it to the chassis and bolted it down.

Nah, FE is not the Lexus of the industry. It's just a cult of people that love inferior products, like Alienware fanboys. 🤣 Congrats on the open box 9070 XT. UPS has the Apex on the truck. Supposed to be delivered between now and 8PM today. I will have to check out that Delta Mate block to see how she looks. Speaking of GPU blocks, I got the Alphacool CORE installed. It looks really good. Much more refined aesthetically than the Bykski block that has served me really well with the 4090 Suprim. It is much heavier than the Bykski block and brawnier in appearance. @johnksss the WireView does NOT fit with the CORE block. Not even almost. It is about a half inch short of being able to reach the connector socket on the GPU. So, now I have two WireView to sell. I'm going to miss it, but not the end of the world. Another thing I noticed after the fact is the switch to change between vBIOS chips is also covered up. If I were testing different vBIOSes still this would be a problem. I am not so I don't care. At least for the moment. Sorry for the low quality camera phone photos. My 5 year old phone camera does an amazing job of capturing dust and lint in photos, but not the finer details that one would want to capture. Too lazy to break out the DSLR for this, so these will have to do.

The "problem" with the Apex and many others is too many Gen5 M.2 slots and USB4 ports. This is a design choice and deliberate allocation of resources. Gen3 and Gen4 is fine for storage and hardly anyone benefits from Gen5 M.2 or USB4 on an overclocking-focused motherboard. It is a wasteful use of resources on things that shouldn't matter much. Thanks to the overrated and unnecessary PCIe 5.0 and USB4 rollout, now we generally have to choose between M.2 sockets and PCIe slots because there are not enough lanes to make everyone happy. I prefer to have usable PCIe slots over M.2 sockets because I can use the slots for whatever I want, whether it is for more M.2 or something else. Not being given a choice is the part that I object to. It is why the Taichi was installed less than an hour before I sent it back for a refund. Not being able to use a PCIe slot without halving the GPU slot bandwidth to X8 is unacceptable. The AORUS Master handled this the way I require, but that is unfortunately rare to find now. All of the motherboard development monkeys only know one way to do things and it is usually not the right way.

So, the X870E Apex is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. If it doesn't handle bifurcation on the PCIe slots the way I need it to then I will return it for a refund. I am pretty sure only one M.2 slot and DIMM.2 can be populated. Two of the motherboard M.2 slots must be ignored if you want PCIe X16 for the GPU. Same is true on the AORUS Master, but all of the slots can be used without gimping the GPU.

It is important to Micro$lop that all of our PCs are zombie machines that allow the Redmond Reprobates to monitor and control them and harvest data in whatever ways they deem appropriate. The machines that are not subject to their command and control ecosystem are non-compliant trash to them. They also loathe that these rogue machines are often owned by rebellious consumers that dare to defy them or bypass their mandates and edicts. And, this is precisely what makes the older PCs and properly deconfigured and overridden "features" on new machines come to be viewed as not trash to everyone else. It is also what makes a default Windoze dumpster fire installation a crappy piece of smelly trash OS to us. I say let them pucker up and plant a sloppy wet kiss on our collective unwashed bottoms. Nasty finger salute to them. May their future be bleak, their fortunes lost and their lanterns remain dim.