Mr. Fox

OK. I might test it on the Encore as a crash dummy. The MSI Edge will be last, if ever, since it does not have dual BIOS and if downgrading is not possible it will basically become worthless to me if I do not approve of the firmware changes.

Cinebench scores are the same?

My concern is that something undesirable might be permanent with the firmware update. If I do not like it and cannot undo it I will be super ticked off and have to replace the motherboard if downgrade is not possible. I am not worried about the SA bug (does not matter in the grand scheme of things) or the "problem" they are trying to fix. I am curious to see what it does, bit skeptical and cautious.

Hey Brother @Papusan here is the latest. Hurry, because newer is better. Tell all of your friends on Facepoot. 🤣 https://rog-forum.asus.com/t5/intel-700-600-series/raptorlake-resources/m-p/1034564/highlight/true#M24284

We have already seen your impressive tuning skills. I haven't seen many AM5 owners that can do what you do with the memory tuning on that platform. But, even with your incredible talent in play the results from the platform are generally not equal in terms of read, write, copy and latency at the same clock speed. That's the platform, not your well above-average abilities with it. Nice to see most of them are standing behind what they sell. Many (maybe most) of the customers that buy their PCs would never own it long enough to reach the time limit. But, offering it may bring most of them back when they are ready for an upgrade.

I guess that depends on how much headroom, where the road ends and if one is happy with the destination. The path being long and wide is kind of nice, but only if it leads to the place you want to go to. A one-hundred fold increase sounds impressive, but the end result is different starting from 1 than it is starting from 2.

People that prefer Intel won't care about what AMD brings. People that prefer AMD won't care what Intel brings. People that don't know what they don't know will believe those that they choose to believe or be extremely confused. $100 or $200 in price probably isn't going to change anyone's mind one way or the other unless they don't know anything and don't have a preference. Some people (the smart ones) decide everything based on what their experience was before and they don't forgive and forget bad experiences, or not very swiftly. Nor should they. They learn from their mistakes and are not keen on repeating them. Others have no experience and form a preference based on what someone else tells them they should think. Then there are those that have only had one experience, it was good, and they don't know what else is out there. And they don't care. They do not want to rock the boat and maintaining status quo is safe and easy. Most people treat products the same as politics. Everything is generally black versus white, light versus darkness, good versus bad, right versus left, God versus Satan, Conservative versus Liberal, Republican versus Demoncrat, etc. And, that's perfectly OK. At least you know where you stand with them. And, that is certainly better than not knowing. Those that hide in the shades of gray are the dangerous ones that will kill you when you're not paying attention. They don't choose sides and can't make up their mind about anything. They are confused, clueless and careless and easily influenced. Yeah, he shouldn't be writing for a tech website. I agree. He definitely is not a PC enthusiast, that's for sure. If he thinks he is, then he is a poser.

The punchline...

And, it looks like AMD has mirepresented the performance. They essentially accomplished nothing in two years. So, long story short, if you prefer AMD and want to move from AM4 to AM5 your best option is to upgrade to a last generation CPU. Our truth remains unchanged @Papusan. Newer is always better newer.

Must be why the price is lower. Lower base clock Only 100 Mhz higher boost clock Poor DDR5 overclocking Dramatically lower TDP Minimal or no performance improvements depending on workload It is a new CPU downgrade. That's pretty disappointing for my friends and family that like AMD. It is sad that so many things suck in the computer space right now. Lots of people are all emo about motherboard BIOS settings damaging Intel CPUs but when you zoom out it is pretty sucky by all measurements.

You cannot have an intelligent conversation with people like that. They are beyond help and they like believing what they want to believe. And he is wrong. They are all equally bad, at least among Intel, AMD, NVIDIA, Micro$lop, Crapple, Google, etc. You cannot trust any large company/industry (big tech, big pharma, etc.) or government to do what is best for the people it exists to serve exploit. That is not a conspiracy theory. It's an observation of their behavior.

This is the technology space we are talking about, so there is an underlying agenda or self-serving purpose somewhere. No company that operates in this realm ever does anything because it is the right thing to do for the people that purchase products. The price is lower because they can still make a profit and the lower price is forecast to make them more money in another way. At the very least they will profit on the heels of the calamity the media has crafted and the irrational behavior of consumers that will follow. That is already happening. At least half of what the world believes about everything is untrue, but they believe it because it is on TV and on the internet and at least half of the people are not smart enough to think for themselves.

Lots of new B650 broken gamerboy trash boards hitting store shelves. These motherboard manufacturers should be ashamed for release rubbish like this. They must not care about maintaining a good brand image and reputation.

That is the right thing to do, and extending it to OEM/tray CPUs is above and beyond what they are required to do. I do wonder if they are going to take the "no questions asked" high road approach or take the low road and ask if the CPU had been overclocked, set for eTVB or XMP applied and still declare the warranty void for the users that dare to answer honestly. All of the folks hoping for a microcode update really need to pull their heads out of their butts and be careful about what they hope for. Intel blocked voltage control for turdbook CPUs some time ago and things have never been right since then. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. The answer is not microcode updates or setting restrictions, but safe and sane firmware defaults.

The only reason to not recommend Intel is that most users have no idea how to manually tune their CPU and the mere thought of entering the BIOS is utterly terrifying to many of them. Many of them are buying cheaper CPUs and motherboards that are "good enough for gaming" so the i9 "problem" the media is chirping about may not even apply to many of them. I think there's a small group of them that buy the best even though they don't have a clue how to use it. In their case, it may be like giving a razor-sharp Samurai sword to a child and expecting them to not get hurt, or not hurt someone else, with it.

That's pathetic. Seems like 8000 Royal is about 2 years late to the party. And, the TPU article is 20 pages of worthless information. It is as ugly as it always has been and will overheat with their half-assed approach to thermals. What do you reckon makes this RGB "excellent" compared to others? Maybe the mere fact that is has RGB makes it qualify for being called excellent in the mind of the reviewer? So anything that has RGB is going to be automatically assigned the mantle of being excellent? Nothing to see here, boys and girls... now go clean your room, and don't forget to brush your teeth. Dufus spent a lot more time on this than necessary, but I agree with his thoughts (as usual). Seems like the YouNoob influencers are making this bigger than it should be and taking it personal that a huge multi-billion dollar corporation isn't responding in a way that they think is appropriate. I am starting to feel like I am watching the retarded woke lefty broads on The View with some of their videos.

This is one I had not seen before. Kind of a symphonic techno. Different.

I agree. I do not embrace their solutions, but I thought the issue itself was approached intelligently and not tainted by any kind of emotion or fanboy finger-pointing that Intel went too far trying to beat AMD. I do not agree with that. I think the methodology behind the "AI" and eTVB (and PBO on AMD) overclocking is a flawed and problematic approach that has effectively shown itself to be folly for both Intel and AMD. AMD's response was to limit their CPU overclocking abilities to keep the CPUs from being killed, which is a sucky approach that ignores the real problem, and I sure hope Intel doesn't take this lazy way out. I limit the Vcore max in the BIOS as well, so that any overshoots or spikes are capped. For example, my 13900KS can run 60x all P-core and 48x all E-core synced Cinebench-stable with manual Vcore set at 1.400V. On the CPU power menu I have L7 LLC set with AC and DC LLC set at 0.010 and capped the Vcore at 1.500V. No issues. I find the voltage needed for my other CPUs in the same way and lock it down. No degradation that I can find. Those benchmarks I ran yesterday at 6.0GHz and 8600 on memory were run to confirm nothing has changed since I last went on a number-chasing spree. And, no surprise to me, nothing had changed. While my core and package temperatures end up being a few degrees higher, I think the trade-off is safety and stability. If it gets too hot it will thermal throttle (as has been the case for years) but it won't grenade itself with insane voltage spikes trying to boost off the charts. The early guidance in the ASUS Z790 overclocking tutorials at oc.net suggest capping the Vcore at 1.700V is safe, but I don't see any reason to set it that high. I am also not convinced that tuning LLC to attempt to match the load VID and load Vcore, allowing high idle voltage and crazy load vdroop is a good idea. Way too much variance and wild swings in the highs and lows for me to think that is a smart idea. I'm pretty sure the old school way of doing things is usually the best way, and overclocking is no exception. The new and not-so-improved thermal-controlled dynamic clocking and algorithm-based voltage control nonsense is for the birds.

So, I found a factory heatsink and backplate to allow me to convert the Aorus RTX 2080 Ti Xtreme Waterforce GPU to air so I can use it in place of the much weaker Titan in the Rampage IV Gene system. Ordered from AliExpress.

I don't run these memory clocks very often because there is no real-world benefit, but it still works. 8400 CL38 is my daily driver and the performance is almost the same, but requires substantially less VCCSA and VDD and VDDQ. It looks fancy in screenshots though.

Indeed. It would mark the end of my interest in computers. I would own what I needed for work and spend as little as possible on that. Ultimately, I would no longer contribute anything on YouTube, or in technology-based social media, (which already is the only form of social media I actively participate in,) and probably abandon what little interest I left have in gaming. (The lack of interest has more to do with the repulsive selection of games than the act of gaming.) Literally everything I do for recreational enjoyment is either directly or loosely associated with overclocking in one form or another. It would become a totally pointless endeavor for me. While it is certainly fun to set memory clock and AIDA64 read benchmark records and gather a few points on HWBOT, once that notch is added to your belt there is virtually no benefit that I can identify moving from 8200 to 8400 to 8600. Above 8000 it is hard to measure a difference in anything other than a memory benchmark. Other than maybe Geekbench, the vast majority of benchmarks and games and productivity workloads show virtually no quantifiable or meaningful change above 8000. Running Y-cruncher and Prime95 and memory stress tests for hours (or days for some people) is actually more idiotic and harmful than the current stuff everyone is chirping about with Intel degradation. That is not much different than believe being a wife-beater makes your marriage stronger. Super stupid.

If it is the one I sold him it is a phenomenal sample.

Yup, I agree with that. And, if Brother @electrosoft says it is good, you can generally take that to the bank.