Mr. Fox

You are looking through rose colored glasses with that HEDT hexachannel beast. 4-DIMM DDR5 may improve a little bit, but it will always be inferior to 2-DIMM, frustrating and a waste of time. Predictable. Nobody wanted or asked for the slower tiled turd CPUs. Almost nobody gives it a rat's ass about the efficiency and laughable overclocking. AMD has a big head start selling chiplet crap and they've been doing it long enough to prove it to be an inferior approach overall, so Intel is peeing into a headwind while pissing off almost everyone that preferred their brand in the process. Seeing them do this tiled/fabric nonsense in spite of seeing how it turned out for AMD isn't exactly confidence-inspiring. I wonder if they haven't sold any because they don't have any to sell. I find it hard to believe nobody in Germany would not buy it if it were available for purchase. Being inferior has never stopped some people before, even when they are in the minority in terms of acceptance. I could see some valuing the Z890 platform more than the downgraded CPU product lineup. Then there are guys like Wendell at L1 saying how good Core Ultra is because of the good compute performance and massive power reduction, only lackluster performance because of Winduhz 11 (no thread scheduling issues on Linux). He has praised the same power efficiency thing about Ryzen and preferred them because they pulled less power. Clearly not an overclocking enthusiast, but at least his perspective remains consistent.

Have you had the opportunity to install and test the 285K from Provantage yet? Or was it delivered while you were on a trip? (Curious what the 285K SP ratings looked like. I will check to see if you already posted it.)

From what I have seen on oc.net that is better than many. Not a lot of examples yet, but SP ratings are all seeming to be low numbers so far. Probably makes more sense to look at voltage values on the VF curve.

Based on the limited sample size I have seen, it looks like that might be a good one. Even though the design of the new tiled CPUs and low core count leaves a lot to be desired, the Z890 platform seems to have a lot of things going for it.

@Talon https://www.overclock.net/threads/intel-core-ultra-9-285k-arrow-lake-processor-24-cores.1812877/ 285K for sale on oc.net (new, sealed) if you're looking for one. Hi Brother John. Nice to see you. I look forward to seeing what you can extract from that CPU.

There seem to be none in the US. At $630 it is a grossly overpriced ripoff on a downgrade. It should be priced the same or less than last gen 24 thread, not same as last gen 32 thread. They're probably counting on the newer is better early adopter people to jump on it at any price no matter how absurd, because that is how silly people roll, rather than pricing it based on logic and equity.

This does not seem too far fetched to me. Micro$lop wants to sell their scummy disposable e-waste Surface turdbooks with soldered RAM and smartphone CPUs in them. Why would they give a rat's butt if the newest AMD and Intel CPUs worked correctly? The dumb-dumbs at Micro$lop do not care about Intel or AMD, and probably not NVIDIA. And, since most brand new computers run on a Winduhz 11 platform now by default (all prebuilts on top of what silly people elect to use for an OS) they essentially have no skin in the game and do not need to care if new processors function correctly as long as their cancer OS is the platform that gets chosen for it to run on. It is interesting the AMD was usually the brand hindered the most by sloppy OS coding and now that Intel has a glued-together mess they are having optimization problems, too. It also gives Micro$lop the power to decide what OS gets updates to make the new CPUs work right. If they do not want an AMD or Intel CPU to function correctly on anything other than their latest trashy OS they get to decide whether or not to provide an update for anything else. Better for them if the new tech is broken without their latest malware OS.

I think one of the problems our industry is suffering from is unfortunately a problem with AMD, Intel and to some degree NVIDIA. None of the people making design and engineering decisions are true overclocking and performance enthusiasts and most are probably not avid gamers. NVIDIA is probably not as badly disconnected with the gamer community as Intel and AMD have proven to be, but they're all out of touch with overclocking enthusiasts. They release things that have some redeeming qualities that general consumers might find useful. But "features" that overclockers, and probably most gamers, do not care about and find unimportant or even counter-productive as it relates to their passions. Then they label it as "for gaming" and insinuate it is suitable for overclocking endeavors when it isn't actually great at either thing. In the case of X3D, good for gaming, but not great for many other things and poor at overclocking. Now the tiled mess from Intel. This happens because the people that made it are clueless, out of touch or ignorant as it relates to overclocking and/or gaming. So, it uses less power... well, whoopty-doo.

Wow, that would be a really hard decision. They both have their pros and cons. The black Apex Encore looks better by a lot and something about it seems better in ways difficult to pinpoint. That being said, I would keep the white Apex if for no reason other than I can use all of the NVMe slots without cutting the GPU back to x8 because there are no Gen5 M.2 slots. I really like being able to use the M.2 slot above the GPU and I cannot on the Encore because the idiots at ASUS made it Gen5.

I think I am good for now. Four very nicely binned Raptor Lake CPUs running like a Swiss watch. With the SA bug gone now the 14900KF SP106 in the Apex Encore CPU is functionally near identical to the wonderful 14900KS SP108 that I bought from @tps3443. Raptop Lake CPUs in the Z790i Edge (13900KS SP112) and Z790 Velocita (14900KF SP102) I am good to go for now. No need for a more efficient CPU crippled by no HT and a lower thread count.

I'm not sure if it's actually a lot of people or if it's a small group of the same talking heads talking a lot more than they usually do. I have seen numerous people comment that they've cancelled their pre-orders because the 285K is a downgrade. I have never seen this many disappointed and salty people emerge during an Intel product launch. And it is justified. But the only way Intel is going to get the message from this is if they get punched in the nuts so hard they can't stand up straight for two weeks. These namby-pamby pathetic turdbook grade CPUs need to be rammed so far up their butt that surgical extraction is required. One of the things I like about Intel fanboys is there is seldom any hesitation to bite the hand that feeds them. Being preferred doesn't exempt them from hate-fueled wrath or ridicule from their biggest advocates.

No I cannot. Either one of those sucky companies would utterly ruin everything Intel stands for and then AMD would have no competition and become even more complacent. This would literally destroy the entire industry. I cannot identify any technology company that I loathe as much as I hate crApple. They're literally worse than poop splattered under the rim of a public toilet. Nobody would ever have anything nice again from Team Red or Team Blue. Even the thought of it is about as ridiculous as the elderly woman that lives next door to me buying Walmart or Amazon. I don't know. There isn't a whole lot there to be tempted by. Pretty disappointing. It seems like they did not even make an effort to do anything right. I do love the ASRock Z890 Taichi OC Formula, but that doesn't mean much if the best CPU you can buy to install in it is a disappointment. If there is a refresh for Arrow Lake and they correct some of their poor design decisions, at that point I might seriously consider it. The reduced core count and P-cores that can't handle more than a about 100-200MHz overclock is a non-starter. They need at least 32 threads or it is a downgrade. I'd even settle for the idea of 32 E-cores and no P-cores on a monolithic chip because it seems like Arrow Lake E-cores overclock beter than the P-cores do.

It would be interesting to see what the gaming results would look like and if they would be more consistent if it is possible to disable P-cores in the BIOS and run only off of the 16 E-cores. @Talon will the BIOS let you disable all P-core and use only E-cores? If not, maybe try Process Lasson and associate only E-cores with a game executable and see how performance changes?

The 2 bin overclocking and limitations on the P-core for Arrow Lake, combined with the castration (no HT) make this release completely unacceptable and unforgiveable to me. Yes, 4-8 bin overclock of more E-cores is the lesser evil to me as well. But, my preference would be something that is actually awesome rather than a half-baked piece of crap like they have provided now. If we wanted half-baked crap there were already options available to settle for that before Arrow Lake. And, I don't care what they want to call P-cores and E-cores as long as they perform up to my expectations and there are enough of them. If they do away with hyperthreading then they need to double or triple the core count of whatever they decide to use. Mixing the core types is idiotic and unnecessary. They should pick one and go with it... make it all it can be. It is like an oxymoron to call something "Performance Cores" and then not provide enough of them to actually perform. It is kind of sadistic and hyperbolic to call something "Performance Cores" and then have them suck at overclocking and not provide enough of them to actually deliver meaningful performance.

Better to get saved by the baby cores than left for dead, LOL. If there was a 15th Gen Core Ultra with 32 baby cores on a monolithic die and no tiled nonsense I would probably consider going that route. The P-cores look like they're garbage this go round. Beautiful new home, Brother T. Very happy for you and your family. I hope you build a lifetime of wonderful memories in it. Papusan Plaza is looking nice! Maybe they will listen to all of the unhappy people and release a refresh with proper quality P-cores and bring back hyperthreading. If not they should go with 24 P-cores or 32 E-cores and stop doing a idiot cocktail of both. They are taking a TON of crap from very unhappy and angry customers and reviewers, so they can't claim ignorance. If they do not have a second generation CPU line that is just going to make the people that moved to Z890 more angry than they already are. The Z890 motherboard platform has a lot going for it, but the CPUs leave a lot to be desired.

It is sad that our world revolves around so many agenda-drive bald-faces lies. It has never been harder to find truth in what we read and hear and assuming everything we read and hear are lies is actually a best practice. Politics, science and medicine... less relevant than ever and built upon fabrications and misrepresentation propped up by the media lying machines. This is really dangerous. Keeping big pharma rolling in money is all that matters. https://youtu.be/aUWSlsivFhM

That is really good. You need to buy an AIDA64 key, bro. You get updates for however long you purchase support but the key lasts forever and it works forever after the period of support for included updates expires. Updates don't matter unless you purchase hardware manufactured after the version release date. And, unless something has changed you can manually download a newer zip version and extract it over an old version with the support period expired and not lose your license. Just no automatic updates after the support period ends. I always only use the zipped version. It's totally portable. I do not use the installer version of any software like this (AIDA64, HWiNFO64, CPU-Z, GPU-Z, etc.). Portable apps are always best. And, most portable apps are buy once (if not totally free) and use it forever. https://www.aida64.com/downloads/MGY1ZmE4MGU=

I almost think the CPU would have been better with 32 Atom cores on a monolithic die and no P-cores since you only get 8 with no HT and they have no overclocking abilities to speak of and the baby smartphone cores overclock better. Then there wouldn't be any glued together tile chiplet crap. Huge mistake for them to involve themselves with TSMC as well.

ASSzeus is becoming famous for being stupid. They do many things wrong and many things that make little sense. The only Z890 board I would buy if I were buying one is the ASRock Taichi OC Formula. It is also comical that so many companies are making motherboards that are grossly overbuilt compared to Z790 for CPUs that are crippled and incapable of taking advantage of the power delivery design. I guess they think they will come out ahead by offering VRMs and phases that would be needed for a CPU that pulls two or three times the power that Arrow Lake is capable of. A wasteful excuse that justifies charging inflated prices for stuff not utilized.

Saying that the 200-series P cores perform better than 14900K and Ryzen when HT/SMT is disabled is specious and totally ignores the reality that those CPUs include a valuable feature that Arrow Lake does not. Most users do not disable features that enhance performance, so the comparison is illogical. Here is a metaphorical example of similar logic: If you disconnect two of the spark plug wires on your V8 motor my V6 will beat it in a drag race. Plus, my V6 gets better gas mileage, so that makes my car faster and more efficient than your car.

Bad leaders erroneously equate the implementation of change as being a measurement of success. Good and effective leaders recognize that blocking change for the sake of change is one of the reasons their job exists and they should only be an agent of change when the virtues are easily quantified, the need for it is validated and the reasons communicated clearly to everyone affected. Before implementing change, they also proactively identify any resistance to change, embrace the expressions of resistance and seek to understand them, and pursue solutions whenever impasse is encountered. The stupidity problem originates at the highest levels of leadership and the metastasis begins at the head.

The sad part is some of the limitations are unnecessary and self-imposed based on preconceived ideas and the potential that ideas and initiatives that fail will be harmful to the careers of key empire-building members of one or more self-anointed brain trusts. This is what made turdbooks objects of contempt and worthy of ridicule. A segment of consumers and industry decision-makers decided that the rest of the world needed to submit and fall in line with the notion that thinner and lighter and long battery life are the only things that matter, to the exclusion of everything else. No other options are necessary, and the needs, preferences and desires of those who differ are irrelevant.

The computer technology space is so overrun by idiots in positions involving decision-making that it is a wonder things are not more screwed up than they already are. It's not going to get better. They are not getting any smarter. In fact, quite the opposite is true... dumb and dumber, with more dumbness on the way.

Change purely for the sake of change is beneath stupidity. It wasn't broke, but they "fixed it" and now it's broken. Predictable. New is always better newer. Innovation without results is worthless. If the results targeted are not the results that consumers purchasing your products want, that reflects ignorance of your target market. Disregarding what your target market wants is arrogance. If we wanted stupidity, worthless innovation, arrogance and ignorance we could buy Apple products. But hey, those shiny piano black G.SKILL memory sticks with no RGB rainbow puke sure do look nice. Shiny doesn't fix hiney.

We still need a vomiting emoji for the rep button, exactly for times like this.