Mr. Fox

I am most assuredly not going to play ball in the way the Redmond Retards are changing the game with Winduhz changes. I am glad I began my journey of warming up to Linux. My tolerance for the nonsense of their insane clown posse is wearing very thin. They are hanging by a thread now with their Nazi control freak shenanigans. As I ponder the idea of sunsetting my benching hobby, any incentive to purchase new products is more or less eliminated. Financially, that is a huge win for me and a five finger death punch to the industry if many people have similar personal revelations.

I can see myself, and some other fine people of equal intelligence, (like a lot of us here,) potentially going through a long dry spell and not finding any good reason to purchase new computer tech. Maybe even never finding a good reason in the foreseeable future if the trend continues on its current undesirable downward trajectory. That would actually be a blessing in disguise in some respects. No point in wasting money on downgrades when the result is only newer is better newer.

If it performs the same or better as 13900KS/14900K/KF/KS and ditches the crappy smartphone cores I would be open for the change, but I am skeptical about silicon quality. If it is a voltage pig with insane thermals that limit overclocking, and leave no headroom for overclocking, then probably not. I do love the idea of adding performance cores and eliminating Atom cores as long as benchmark scores are equal to or greater than what I have now. A big monolithic processor with matching cores under a single die, in my opinion, is the only right way to do things. I do not like the elimination of hyperthreading and I would want to see the elimination of Atom cores result in reinstatement of AVX. The E-core crap is why AVX was removed. As usual, we need to wait and see. I'm not crazy about speculation and predictions. I prefer to see tangible evidence. Jose is going to feel slighted that you only mentioned Manuel. 😜 No shifting. Just wide open throttle.

That is sad. But, your involvement for PremaMod Partners remains priceless. I have not noticed anything because I only went from MC 11F to 129 only to fix the SA bug on one CPU. If not for the SA bug fix I would still be using old firmware. The only reason I considered updating to 129 is because it was being reported at overclock.net that MC 129 BIOS fixed the SA bug. One of my five LGA1700 CPUs is a fantastic sample with the SA bug. The others are very good and have no SA bug. Same is/was true for @electrosoft. He has a super chip with the SA bug that 129 fixed. Even so, I probably would not notice the eTVB bug because I manually overclock everything and have eTVB options disabled in the BIOS because I hate that kind of approach to overclocking. I find the "old school" way of doing things to always be the best approach.

Happy Thursday, Brother @Prema. It has been nice seeing you here. I noticed the same. I had manually set it in the BIOS for less than default (Auto) and had to set it back to Auto to make the 8400 memory clock stable. You know me. I'm not going to let the Redmond Reprobates make decisions for me. I, and I alone, will decide what runs on my PC. Much better that way. EULA be damned. Posted this in another thread yesterday... A "secure" system (actually a myth) that doesn't do what you want it to do is worthless. Function and performance always trump security as far as I am concerned. All the patches and security fixes in the world won't fix the DIMM-wit using the keyboard. (Yeah, you saw what I did there, LOL.) The biggest security risk with any computer is a stupid user. Simple fix... for unwanted updates, not for stupid users or stupid employees working on the Windoze Support Team (can't fix stupid)... just tweak the registry and hit "Advanced options" on the Windoze Updates page in settings and delay them for 10 years. Hint: You'll need to scroll a LOOOONG way down to reach the 10 year mark. Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX\Settings] "ActiveHoursEnd"=dword:00000011 "ActiveHoursStart"=dword:00000008 "AllowAutoWindowsUpdateDownloadOverMeteredNetwork"=dword:00000000 "ExcludeWUDriversInQualityUpdate"=dword:00000001 "FlightCommitted"=dword:00000000 "IsExpedited"=dword:00000000 "LastToastAction"=dword:00000000 "UxOption"=dword:00000004 "InsiderProgramEnabled"=dword:00000000 "SvDismissedState"=dword:00000001 "SmartActiveHoursSuggestionState"=dword:00000001 "SmartActiveHoursTimestamp"=hex(b):b9,80,63,7c,b6,73,da,01 "HideMCTLink"=dword:00000001 "RestartNotificationsAllowed2"=dword:00000000 "SmartActiveHoursStart"=dword:00000007 "SmartActiveHoursEnd"=dword:00000010 "FlightSettingsMaxPauseDays"=dword:00000e42 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX\Settings\ModelState] "SignalRegistered"="::2F1AAFCACF" No need to worry about stupid crap like this (below) ruining your day when you're calling all of the shots and keeping the numbskulls at Micro$lop out of your business.

Nobody here disagreed with you that I know of. You are correct. I don't think it will ever work well. It will always have flaws because the entire concept is flawed and was invented by goofballs. AMD started the abomination with their cobbled together mini CPUs and Infinity Fabric crap. People bought it and were excited about the mess, so Intel jumped on the bandwagon with their smartphone core crap. Now we all have to deal with messy doo-doo on both sides of the fence. The moral to the story is this: If it is what the sheeple want and believe in, there is at least a 50% chance that it is trash. It doesn't matter which school they attend, newer is always better newer. Computer technology is circling the drain, regressing rather than progressing. And, the demons that want to drag us into their pit don't care whether we are wearing red or blue pants. Seems to mirror other facets of life beyond technology to a great degree. The world we live in is pretty screwed up. Are the SP ratings deceptively good and not matching nasty details the VF curve, or is all of the information, including what it shows on the VF curve and SP ratings, not the reality of how it behaves? That is pretty sad, but it may have been that way new. The 14900K/KF CPUs I returned to Amazon, NewEgg and the 14900KS returned to Central Computer were the absolute worst silicon samples I have ever had in my possession before. Bad enough there was no way I would try to use them or sell them to someone else at a loss, so I insisted on refunds and got my money back. The KS needed like 1.550V to run Cinebench on BIOS defaults and stock turbo with no ASUS enhancements. I think I remember seeing posts by the guy selling it that he was struggling to get it to behave acceptable. I might have him mistaken for someone else and can't swear to it, but that's why I did not reply to your post if it was the same CPU that you were commenting about how good the predictions looked. This is why I have stocked up on 13th and 14th Gen CPUs of good bin quality. AMD brought nothing worth buying and I expect Intel will have nothing worth buying in their next gen. All the focus is on wrong things. Quality, integrity and customer experience are no longer main points of focus. The focus is developing AI to further the tech syndicate's theft of information and crimes against humanity, a resource for governments to rule by manipulation and fiat, with funding sourced by selling grossly overpriced broken crap to silly people that are addicted to electronics feces and believe everything they see, read and hear on TV and social media.

Nice. Makes me want to do more SMD soldering. No reason in particular, but it's just a cool hot talent. I wondered how she was going to pay for it. Now we know.

A "secure" system (actually a myth) that doesn't do what you want it to do is worthless. Function and performance always trump security as far as I am concerned. All the patches and security fixes in the world won't fix the DIMM-wit using the keyboard. (Yeah, you saw what I did there, LOL.) The biggest security risk with any computer is a stupid user. Simple fix... for unwanted updates, not for stupid users or stupid employees working on the Windoze Support Team (can't fix stupid)... just tweak the registry and hit "Advanced options" on the Windoze Updates page in settings and delay them for 10 years. Hint: You'll need to scroll a LOOOONG way down to reach the 10 year mark. Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX\Settings] "ActiveHoursEnd"=dword:00000011 "ActiveHoursStart"=dword:00000008 "AllowAutoWindowsUpdateDownloadOverMeteredNetwork"=dword:00000000 "ExcludeWUDriversInQualityUpdate"=dword:00000001 "FlightCommitted"=dword:00000000 "IsExpedited"=dword:00000000 "LastToastAction"=dword:00000000 "UxOption"=dword:00000004 "InsiderProgramEnabled"=dword:00000000 "SvDismissedState"=dword:00000001 "SmartActiveHoursSuggestionState"=dword:00000001 "SmartActiveHoursTimestamp"=hex(b):b9,80,63,7c,b6,73,da,01 "HideMCTLink"=dword:00000001 "RestartNotificationsAllowed2"=dword:00000000 "SmartActiveHoursStart"=dword:00000007 "SmartActiveHoursEnd"=dword:00000010 "FlightSettingsMaxPauseDays"=dword:00000e42 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX\Settings\ModelState] "SignalRegistered"="::2F1AAFCACF" No need to worry about stupid crap like this (below) ruining your day when you're calling all of the shots and keeping the numbskulls at Micro$lop out of your business.

I do not do use CMO files across BIOS versions. That is why I save a text file for the profiles I use. Then I can recreate them manually for a newer or older BIOS version. That fixed it. Something from 9933 did not revert back to what it was with 1503 using the in-BIOS flash tool. If you run into weirdness after an in-BIOS update, or going back to a better older version, run BIOS flashback from USB using the button on the rear I/O. Now I can use XMP Tweaked again and no lockups and confirmed no SA bug. It flashed everything doing it that way instead of keeping crap in some regions with a newer timestamp. It takes over twice as long to flash that way, but it does a better job. Back to normal... all settings that worked before still work after BIOS flashback. No SA bug with MC 0x129. It did nothing to help my 81°F (27°C) ambient temperatures in my office. 🤣 Water in my loop is 28°C. 😡

They'll deny it, but I would not be surprised if it was a deliberate act of sabotage rather than a mistake. They are losing market share to older versions of Windows and Linux due to their filthy new cancer OS and what better way to block it than preventing users from booting into Linux when they don't want to deal with Micro$haft's garbage. They are not an honorable company and their lack of integrity is evident to anyone paying attention.

Awesome. I hope they get finanically raped by the litigation and left for dead. Then we can hope the same for lots of their evil accomplices in the tech space to suffer similar tragedies. We need to see some fortunes lost, empires ruined and some key decision-making people criminially prosecuted in order for a lot of this nonsense to get smashed for good.

That is EXACTLY what happened when I went from 1503 to the 9933 XOC BIOS that Safedisk provided last week. I did not try to use an old CMO file. I saved the text and set everything manually. It seemed stable at first but then started locking up in AIDA64 and TM5. I went back to 1503 and applied the stable profile and it was no longer stable like it was before 9933. I still have to do more messing with it to confirm, but I think the XMP Tweaked menu option is causing it now. It did not cause it before, which is weird. ASUS does some nice things with their BIOS, but they do some stupid things as well. When you flash firmware there are certain regions that are protected and never go back to what they were before when you flash the older firmware. That is why I generally think it is best to avoid firmware updates unless I am expecting something I need to happen. MSI and EVGA BIOS updates erase and re-write everything, in all regions. That is how it should be and ASUS needs to get a clue on this. If you pay close attention during an ASUS BIOS update and read the text at the bottom of the screen, sometimes it skips over certain regions and it never flashes some of them. They also need to stop insisting on Intel ME updates and bundling it with the BIOS. Intel ME updates are totally unnecessary. No Intel system requires the Intel ME to fully function. They need to provide the option to disable it. It serves no useful purpose for consumers and having it creates extra security risks that some people get wigged out about. No ME means no vulnerabilities associated with ME. Edit: I think I am going to try the BIOS Flashback recovery and then retest my saved profile with XMP Tweaked. BIOS flashback forces flashing of regions and allows some BIOS mods to be flashed that are blocked through a normal flash update.

Yeah, older BIOS is almost always better than newer. There was an exception as DDR5 technology was needing work, but we are way past that now. SA Bug: If your CPU has it, if you set System Agent voltage (VCCSA) above a certain value, usually a very low value, the system will start freezing. It would lock up in the BIOS or in Windows. This one 14900KF has it and if I left it set on Auto it would go too high and freeze with the CPU under load. I had to manually set it at 1.190V, which was fine up to 8200 CL38, but any higher memory clock than that was not stable because it needed more system agent voltage. I set 1.250V for 8400 CL38 and tight timings. That "no workey" with the SA bug. If you don't want to overclock the memory that high it is not a big deal, but it might lead one to believe something else is wrong if the freezing happens with the BIOS left on Auto and you don't know you have to manually decrease it from default. Using as little as you need is always good as long as you are not limited by the bug. Welcome back to bare die paradise. I thought you had lost your marbles there for a bit. I hate having an IHS on my CPUs. It sucks, LOL.

It may be another setting and not the SA bug. I went back to 1503 and applied my old profile and it was freezing in AIDA64 the same as 9933. Not sure why, so I applied XMP and manually set VCCSA to 1.350V and no freezing. So, something did change. I switched to XMP I (instead of XMP Tweaked) and applied my settings and now no more freezing. So, I may go back and test 9933 again with different settings to see for sure. It's weird that it was working fine and then suddenly XMP Tweaked would cause it to start freezing. The only reason I even considered updating the BIOS at all was to see if it fixed the SA bug on this one CPU. Otherwise, no need for BIOS updates. Waste of time and often brings less desirable performance, especially if "security" mitigations are part of the cancer payload. I was pleasantly surprised that it fixed that. Applying the microcode in Windows does NOT fix the SA bug. (I tried the Windows MC Prema shared and it did not correct the issue.) We are also only assuming it was the microcode update. Logical assumption, but it could be something else. I say logical because the SA bug was motherboard agnostic. Was the same on my MSI board as the ASUS and the BIOS update corrected it. If I had left this CPU in the MSI Z790I Edge ITX board it would have continued to be perfectly fine with the SA bug for the same reason you mention. Air cooled in a small chassis and poor circulation, 8200 is the edge of stability due to temperatures anyhow. Having low VCCSA because you can and because you want to is good. It's only an issue if you wanted to push it further and can't because of a flaw preventing it. Inconsequential otherwise. But, nobody like knowing there is a fly in the ointment. So, it is working without issue again. Will play with tightening up the timings again now that I am using the XMP I instead of XMP Tweaked option. Interesting change that makes no sense. The Intel ME was not updated, so I cannot blame it on that.

I spoke too soon. BIOS 9933 brought back the SA bug. Going back to 1503 and hoping it goes away again.

Just tested the new XOC BIOS for the Apex Encore and will apply it to the white Apex as well. It has the new 0x129 MC, but retains the ability to drop back to 11F. I tested it on the Encore first since the CPU with the SA bug that got fixed by 0x129 is installed in the Encore. Later today I am going to change to MC 11F and see if the SA bug rears its head again, or if that did something permanent to solve the bug. In other news, there is a ROG theme available in the latest HWiNFO64. It in typical ASUS fashion, it is the most tacky-looking theme one could ever imagines. It looks effing AWFUL, especially in dark mode. What is wrong with these nutjobs and their tacky and over-the-top garish aesthetic preferences? I am going to have to PM Martin over at HWiNFO forum and ask if the style of the theme was specified by ASUS or if he created it while taking drugs.

I find it very hard to see any visual difference in the benchmark no matter what settings are used. The issue using DLSS on 2080 Ti and 3090 Ti is there is no frame generation, and the benchmark does not have options for performance vs quality. It was interesting seeing how the different settings affected the different GPUs. I agree. I don't like FSR and generally don't use it. On a GPU with no DLSS+frame generation, at least in this benchmark, it provides a better framerate with the FSR frame generation. Unless something unusual changes my mind, I have no intention of buying the game though (I seldom ever enjoy playing RPG) so it's all just for benching fun and won't matter in the grand scheme of things. Howdy stranger. Nice seeing you. Hope you can stay for a spell. I think Steel Nomad is a joke. 3DMark Suite in general has become a bloated piece of garbage benchmark. The more they add to it, the trashier it seems to get. Things started circling the drain with Port Royal and have gotten progressively worse. The best benchmarks in the suite are those with CPU and combined scores, and the very best (Sky Diver) is "no longer supported" because UL is run by idiots. Of course, these are my personal biases, so I know not everyone will agree with them.

Things start getting sketchy and the 2080 Ti starts showing its age with Super Resolution at 100%, which is tough even for the 4090. Basically nothing can produce a smooth experience cranks up like that. Even so, with everything maxed out it still performs stronger than I expected it to. It would not be a good gaming experience (slideshow)... but still... just saying... One thing I did not expect is that with RT turned off the GPU power increased by about 50W. Because there was not a pronounced difference in the image quality, I am assuming this is because 100% of the workload shifts to the rendering cores and the tensor cores take a nap. If that is the correct explanation it makes sense, but I would have assumed that ray tracing enabled would increase the power utilization.. It seems to balance it out and relieve some stress on the GPU core.

I tested Wukong on the 2080 Ti and it is interesting. It works better than I expected it to and it appears the old Xeon has plenty of juice to not be a bottleneck to the GPU. The CPU was generally 25~35% utilization and the GPU at or close to 100%. And, the graphics look good no matter what level of detail or quality preset. Hard for me to see any difference except with ray tracing disabled. Then it does lose some quality, but still looks very good. Hardly any difference between FSR and TSR that I can see.

I view gaming as an extended form of benching. I pay as much attention to my system as I do the game. I own games that I do not like and having no interest in playing simply for the included benchmark. I love it when a game dev releases a free standalone benchmark tool like the one we are playing with because then I have no reason to purchase the game. It looks beautiful, but I can say with a fair level of confidence that I would not like playing the actual game. This applies also to the Final Fantasy benchmarks. You could not even pay me to play those games. On top of being subscription-based I think they are icky, (based on genre and gameplay style,) but the free standalone benchmarks are fun to run.

You should put something like this on it to allow air flow but direct it away from the system, either toward the ceiling or forward (into the room) and away from the bench. You could attach it with double-sided rubber tape or even use adhesive magnets if the backplate is not aluminum. It would look nice and probably be better for cooling. You could also attach it with a bead of T-7000 adhesive, which would be strong enough to hold it forever, but not so permanent that you could not remove it later if you wanted to. https://www.amazon.com/ORLANG-Marine-Louvered-Mounting-Suitable/dp/B0CS61SZ9K?th=1

Both of us have the updated PCB design without that weakened hook area.

I gritted my teeth and flashed the new BIOS again and found that DTPF setting present where expected. No idea why it is not visible in the January BIOS. So, I was able to test this benchmark with the Intel Optimizer and found it provided no benefit. FPS were the same as without it and it made it feel like the FPS was lower due to some stuttering. I hope I don't have the same issues with the M.2 port dropping out and the BIOS loading menus incorrectly. If that happens even once then it is back to the January BIOS. Crossing my fingers. So far, so good. I do like that MSI does not interfere with flashing older firmware and does not bundle the ME firmware cancer with their BIOS updates. I love that it is my decision and not theirs and I hate that ASUS doesn't leave that decision entirely up to my own discretion. So, each brand has its pros and cons. ASUS gives a lot of options, but neglects a couple of things I consider super important. EVGA was the best. If I were the king of the world and could do things my way, I would pick and choose the best each brand had to offer and reject their crap. There would be no restrictions on the choice of firmware versions that could be flashed, and no firmware signature crap. The BIOS would also include the ability to control the RGB/ARGB within the UEFI and eliminate the cancer software trash installed in the OS. Boards like the Apex wouldn't even have any RGB crap on them. I'd also shut down Micro$lop Store and ban the development of UWP smartphone app for PC filth.

That would be nice. Although, I am pretty sure that is never going to happen. You have to be part of the right clique and none of us are. Our results don't matter except to the extent that they become a threat to the Chosen Ones. I am pretty sure that CENS pursued the golden sample CPU that @tps3443 had because he wasn't "supposed to have it" and not because CENS actually wanted or needed it. Someone at Intel must have let it make its way into the retail channel by mistake. And, when he bought it from our Brother here it would not surprise me if it was with someone else's money. Well, this benchmark runs nice enough on 3090 Ti FTW3 if you don't go too crazy on the settings. There is no NVIDIA frame generation or DLSS 3.0 on pre-40 series RTX, so cranking the settings will crush it just as it does the 4090 with frame generation disabled. UE5 has its own though, and works fairly well. This system is connected to two 1440p displays for work.