electrosoft

Kudos to Asus for moving away from trying to auto install ArmoryCrate and now offering to install Asus DriverHub which is really just a service link to a webpage that makes installing and updating drivers very straight forward and easy without all the added bloat of ArmoryCrate if you go that route. Usually I just manually install the drivers to avoid AC, but I gave this a whirl (since this is just a test/tuning install that will eventually be nuked) and found their new approach actually acceptable. Now all they need to do is allow rudimentary RGB controls in the BIOS.....

Finally had time today to get the 9800X3D + x870e Crosshair Hero (or as @jaybee83 would call it "The Peasant Edition" 🤣) up and running in the test case. Unlike before, the A-die 2x32GB G.Skill sticks booted no problem even on the 303 BIOS (launch BIOS). Updated to 706 (below in the pic). One problem is it takes four and a half minutes to post and eventually start booting off the SSD. I actually timed it because it takes forever every time even at stock JEDEC. I swapped in a pair of Crucial 6400 sticks and the posted within 30 seconds. I even went in and set them to EXPO II as a quick test and again....30 seconds. Never had these types of issues with the G.skill sticks on my x670e Carbon like I have across now 3 Asus boards (B650, x670e, x870e) with 9800X3D but at least they post but I'm not going to fight with them. I'll just stick with the Crucial 6400 sticks for now while I get everything up and running for testing and tune them first along with the controller and go from there. SP112 but it makes no difference with the 9800X3D really. I have yet to see a 9800X3D that can't hit 5450+. SP113 I returned because of the bad memory controller hit it no problem while limping along at 5200 on the M-die 2x16GB memory for stability an unable to go over 2000 fclk. It comes down to the memory controller. That's all I care about. If it's decent, I'll keep it and cancel my Amazon order which is due in 10 days. If not, I'll roll the dice. As much as I like the Lian Li for testing, the AM4/5 mounting system is atrocious. Instead of a real mounting system like on Intel or even many other vendors that have you remove the AM4/5 stock clamps, they use a terrible side clamping mount for the stock brackets all AM4/5 motherboards ship with and tension screws to lock it into place.

I'm on the fence about this. If we look at it from a traditional raster perspective, then it is all software tomfoolery. But if we look at tensor cores and AI it is another way to generate frames vs the traditional method and they meet somewhere in the middle to give an overall boost to performance. The problem right now is the latency and image quality issues DLSS/FG presents that does admittedly keep improving each generation. *IF* Nvidia (and AMD and Intel) get to a point they can use upscaling and fg integrated with traditional raster and present an image quality and and latency on par with just traditional rendering techniques, that would sufficiently move the industry forward. For someone like you @Mr. Fox and anyone who benchmarks (present company included), that has to translate into standardized benchmarking and universal measurements where the hybrid approach becomes as ubiquitous as raster is today. Unfortunately that day is still far off. 😞 ---- But I do agree Nvidia, AMD and Intel need to present every scenario. I have no problems promoting DLSS and FG, but they also need to be truthful in pure raster performance. I remember the 4090 raster performance being bandied about because it was a significant uplift over the 3090. I guess because whispers keep pointing to a more "modest" uplift this cycle over the 4090 with the 5090 it isn't as front and center. As you trickle down the stack it looks like it is going to be even worse and maybe even a modest 10-15% for let's say the 5070 over the 4070 Super. It also makes sense why pricing stayed the same or even went down especially with the 9070xt reportedly on the heels of a 7900xtx but some pricing says it might come in at $600. That will definitely keep Nvidia honest in the mid market while AMD and Intel keep Nvidia honest in the entry market. Unfortunately they have absolutely no answer for the 5080 and especially the 5090 which even with a ~30% uplift just extends the Nvidia's lead even moreso.

I'll end up with one eventually for my MSI 1300AI_SuperDuper_Terminator_Matrix edition (we all know the naming is headed that way), but I'll run the tentacles for a bit at first.

I like that it looks much thicker than most of the other bigger laptops too so hopefully better cooling along with a 400w PSU! Asus gives you a *little* control over the UV in the BIOS on their gaming laptops. Nobody has approached MSI's level yet though outside of custom BIOSes. Hopefully Gigabyte or another steps up and even on a laptop chipset implements near desktop chipset controls like MSI.

I've lost count how many times my Wingoneer has saved my hide from laptops to GPUs and more....usually when I get, um "adventuresome"

Yep, I keep going back and forth with the 9070xt/5070 "smart play" mindset and the YOLO!!! 5090 approach. I already signed up for BB notification for the FE 5090..... 🤣 First come first serve, though. If a Suprim pops up first, I would just grab that. Or maybe common sense will kick in and I'll go GPU less for a few weeks and just use my laptop and make a sane, sound, rationale decision steeped on common sense and wisdom..... .....yeah, I laughed too! 😁🤣

Looks like while MSI regressed with memory slots, Acer overhauled their 18" beast and went with 4 memory slots and 3x storage slots and redesigned it from the ground up in many areas:

From your lips @Mr. Fox to God's ears.....let's hope so! Maybe @johnksss knows something we don't know... 😉 I always love the dichotomy of gaming requirements depending on what you want out of your gaming experience. You can literally play many modern games on a $150 or less GPU if you dial it down and temper your expectations OR if you want the absolute best 120fps+ experience at 4k, even a 5090 can be humiliated in some games....crazy.

Jufus is guesstimating about 20-25% but we will see. Unfortunately DLSS is the future in regards to calculating performance and Jensen continues to blur the lines between raster/hardware fps and tensor/AI fps like they're one and the same and they most certainly are not. But if we get so a point (which I think is his goal) that DLSS can render just as well as traditional hardware rendering with no penalties, then who cares? If the 5090 is at least 30% faster than the 5090, that's good enough for me as bad of a buy as it is for several reasons: #1. I don't have a 4090 anymore. I am going to literally apply everything I sold my 4090 for and get a 5090. #2. Price scaling is in line with performance scaling if it meets at least a 25% bump. Still sucks though. #3. If you want the best, you gotta pay to play. Pony up or sit on the sidelines and bitch. 🙂 ---- I fully expect the 9070xt to land closer to the 7900xtx than the 7900xt for raster but with much better RT than the 7900xtx and obviously less VRAM. The pricing is going to decide its fate. If it can come in at $699.99 or below, it will keep Nvidia honest which I already believe it has with Nvidia's pricing. I also think the 5000 series isn't going to be that much better than the 4000 series (sans 5090) so you achieve a better price per frame with a mild performance increase and price cuts versus last gen. If the 5080->5060 were going to be massive upgrades you know darn well Jensen would extract his own of flesh for them price wise.

The more I go over all the models, I am pretty sure I am going to target an FE 5090 this time around if possible followed by the K|NGP|N, MSI 4090 Suprim Air model, MSI Liquid or Asus Astral in that order with a shout out to the HOF. The FE 5090 is just so flexible with its form factor not only for case size but testing between various systems along with SFF builds. It would be a perfect jack of all trades for what I do. Now that the K|NGP|N is back in my mindspace, it becomes the obvious second or even first choice but it won't be released anytime soon. MSI 4090 Suprim Air because as much as I loved the liquid, with all things being equal, the Air will be a hair cheaper and easier to move between systems. I'll just need a construction crane to keep it level in the system. MSI Liquid because I really did love the 4090 variant but it depends on cost versus the Asus Astral. I really like the look of the card, but I know as soon as I see a $2500 MSRP on it I will check out almost immediately..... HOF as always are just way too expensive to import and might have warranty issues if you need work.

This is the way.... They are squeezing in more SKUs, but as always Suprim is their top end card so they can squeeze in all the cards they want for the gamerz. 🤣 Welcome to Halo GPU Addicts Anonymous.....we meet every Thursday whenever we can spare time from fawning over, discussing, buying, gaming, benchmarking or crapping all over Nvidia....

I put "Official Thread" in quotes as I am sure all of about 3 people will buy this thing, but you never know. 🤣 This thing is gluttonously insane with all the extra visual bling and will come packing a 5090, 64GB of 6400 memory and a top end Intel 285 CPU. MSI release: https://www.msi.com/news/detail/MSI-Unveils-New-Laptop-Lineup-Featuring-NVIDIA-GeForce-RTX-50-Series-at-CES-2025-145200 Tom's: https://www.tomshardware.com/laptops/gaming-laptops/msis-new-gaming-laptops-include-a-norse-themed-titan-dragon-edition-translucent-cyborg Actual look, hands on and inside the hardware looksy.... I'm sure this is going to cost a few organ donations to purchase, but it is the type of glorious overkill I always like to see in some hardware from time to time.

I absolutely forgot about the potential K|ngP|n model. Add that to my short list....

Are you targeting specific models @johnksss or whatever is available? Two slot FE 5090 in action.....so slim!

I had a very length reply at the ready, but the TL;DR is I concur. lol, that works too! At least during the Pandemic/Cryptoboom, plenty of bots were monitoring sites and camaraderie of fellow GPU seekers sitting in chat and shooting the breeze while waiting for drops using suspect math to calculate drop times was good times! I'd like to say I'm going to pass on the 5090, but the FE (SFF), MSI Suprims (My current fave company) and (looks sheepishly down at the ground in shame 🤪) the Asus Astral 5090 has me intrigued. I'm trying to stay "go with the flow," and seriously considering a 9070XT or 5070 but testing a 5090 with the 9800X3D and 14900KS has me jonsin' for a 4k shootout with WoW and FO76. 🤣 The idea of a mega powerful SFF desktop that I can take with me for travel and has the ultimate power just has me fired up. Part of me wants to go AIO 5090 again, but swapping between platforms for testing was such a PITA with the 4090 MSI Liquid vs when I was swapping the various 7900XTX's I had during the last few years. And yup, like I said earlier, I'm glad (as glad as one could be to pony up $2k for a gpu for play) Nvidia stuck to a $2k price point and even moreso the rest of the stack either stayed the same (5070) or even got cheaper (5080, 5070ti). ------ Launch is on the 30th and that gives me over three weeks to sort and and tune the hardware that just arrived today aka "Weapons Primed" Agreed. Some things stand out from the article: 5070: "This would place the RTX 5070 slightly ahead of the RTX 4070 Super for about $50 less, or alternatively, 20 – 30% faster than the RTX 4070 for the same price. Depending on how it performs relative to the RTX 4070 Super, this could offer reasonable, though slightly underwhelming, value. A 10% performance improvement over the 4070 Super and a 9% price cut would result in roughly a 20% improvement in cost per frame." If you already have a 4070 or 4070 Super, unclutch your pearls and enjoy your card. On the other hand, if you're within a return window, return it and get a 5070 regardless of either model. Great thing is you are getting a 20-30% uplift for the same price. 5070ti: See above + great thing is you are getting a 20-30% uplift at $50USD cheaper 5080: Same uplift, but reflects the cheaper 4080 Super pricing and not the "we hit a wall" with the $1199 4080 cash grab. 5090: Pushing more towards (fingers crossed) a ~40% uplift in raw performance over the 4090 but the increased cost cancels out a large chunk (if not all) of the gained value generation over generation depending on the final uplift (25% increased cost). Overall, it seems Nvidia realizes outside of their halo 5090, they seem to have hit a wall in pricing vs competition and what will sell and move to meet their volume expectations. Even with the 5080 most likely being much better than the 7900xtx and even moreso the 9070xt, it comes down to pricing and what consumers will pay for an 080 class card. Pricing it at half the cost of a 5090 removes a lot of the "well it is already so close to the 090, might as well get the 090" club and increases its viability and desirability. As for the 5090? All bets are off in this AI madness driven market along with the fact the 5090 will be so far ahead performance wise of ANYTHING on the market that you WILL pay if you want to play. The gap is going to be pretty brutal especially compared to AMD. It just reinforces my own personal "go big or go home" approach and it will be either a 9070xt/5070 or a 5090 for me this generation (4070 Super obviously going back to Best Buy at the end of January).

I'd like to say I used a sniper bot or some other hot tech, but honestly it was pure luck. I happen to refresh and BOOM there it was on BB so I snagged it. This was for both a 3090 and a 4090.

Definitely Nvidia speak for DLSS4. The best, telling sign on their charts is the RT only Far Cry 6 result. Everything else is DLSS fluff. I thought the same thing about the Founder's Edition. I would love a nice, compact SFF buildout with a 9800X3D which can do air cooling no problem and a 2-slot 5090. That thing would be a portable Juggernaut. I love the idea of a dystopian world with sentient AI roaming and knocking us down a peg.....of course I'm a nihilist at heart so...yeah.

Agreed, but when someone needs the raw ram capacity over everything else, they hit a wall. Personally, as always, I want frequency and timings to take priority and that usually comes in 2-dimm format. Maybe I'm jaded coming from the X170SM where with Prema pushing 2dpc was nowhere near as good as 1dpc. 🙂 Hard pass on Acer unless something has changed. I absolutely LOVE their thin and light stuff, but the last few gaming laptops I've tested from them have been garbage not only for thermals but noise and BIOS being locked down on Dell's level if not more. They would have to do a complete about face on the upper end for me to consider them seriously. Clevo has steadily regressed over the last 5 years IMHO and is one step away from entering the ranks of Dell and Acer just without the consistency of driver and BIOS updates. They drop support pretty quick when models are EOL'd especially with BIOS support. Each year they move farther down my list of alternatives especially since abandoning the true DTR market. I would love to see a good Lenovo 18" as their 16" models repeatedly impress me. I tested the Strix Scar 18" with the 4080 (twice actually!) and outside of cost, it wasn't "that bad" except for Armory Crate. It had the best sound profiles and gamed really well. I know they updated their 18" panels between the 13th and 14th releases which was good because 13th gen panel was a bleeding nightmare on both models I tested. I'd gladly give Asus another whirl if I manage to get one sent for eval.

Well if Jensen said it....it MUST be true.... Ditto. I'm just glad Nvidia: #1. Didn't price the 5090 at $2200+ but $2k is still pretty outlandish as you know AIB models are going to be $200-400+ more. Insane. I'm going to have to seriously think about if I want to deep dive again, but I will say the last 4 generations I've gotten back everything I paid into it and in a few instances actually made more than I paid (1080ti, 5700xt, 3090 KPE). So I know I can most likely pull the trigger, ride the 5090 for a few years and then sell it at a minimal loss if at all so there's that to consider but I'm going to eventually bust.....maybe? #2. Realized their error and priced the 5080 at $999 vs the $1199 4080 BS then had to release the "Super" at $999. It comes down to performance though. #3. Kept the 5070 at $549 and lowered the 5070ti to $749. I think this is because they know that while AMD has conceded the halo top dog market, they are bringing the heat in the 5070ti / 5070 and below market. I'm definitely looking forward to their mobile products seeing as last time you needed to get the 4080 or 4090 to provide a real upgrade over the previous generation. Yep, you answered your own question there @Mr. Fox. It would be like a gaming enthusiast saying "If overclocking ranked high on my list of important things in life, I might find it easier to relate." would be the argument for someone as to why buy a 9950x when outside of overclocking, the chip goes to waste for the most part and doesn't game as well as the 9800X3D. Gamers who want to push the ultimate performance will tune and overclock their hardware to achieve maximum results at optimal settings and 4k resolution are doing their own version of overclocking to reap the benefits except instead of benchmarks it's game performance. I am curious too to see how well the 9950X3D overclocks in tandem and per CCD. ------------- MSI showing their new 5000 series cards. 5090 Liquid X got an upgrade to a full 360mm AIO..... If I go 5090, it will be Liquid/Air Suprim or FE in that order most likely but this is always subject to change. If Jensen is saying the 5070 is 2x the 4070 (not Super), that's a nice punch up for less than the Super.

Just in case anyone is looking, Amazon has the 9800X3D shipped and sold from Amazon for 465.13 with a much updated delivery window of Jan 23th - Feb 5th. I had ordered a "just in case" one with a delivery window of March 23rd as a back up for the normal $479.99, but while spot checking, if you go under other options for sellers (not the clearly fake seller selling for 449.99), you will see Amazon offering it for $465.14. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0DKFMSMYK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 285k's on Amazon and Newegg now for $599.99 and thousands on Provantage.... --- EDIT: Must have been a pricing error, as they've adjusted it back up to $479.99 (but I grabbed one at $465.14), but the delivery window is still the same Jan 23rd - Feb 5th which is manageable if you can't track one down to snag as is.

From my perspective, I prefer a 2-dimm laptop just like as 2-dimm motherboard when able for better overclocking and signal integrity. But from the perspective of those who look to the Titan and other laptops to be able to support 128GB+ of memory for their select work loads, it limits their choices especially if you consider the Titan a "workstation" class laptop with expanded memory and storage options. With the cut down memory options, the Raider or other models now become very viable even with half the storage slots as you can always run external storage if needed like Macbook pro users have done for decades 😞 (present company included) but you can't run RAM externally.

It's official, Asus ROG Apex x870e: AMD 9950X3D will boost as high as the normal variant (yay!) but we all know damn well the X3D will be on the slower CCD (boo!) AMD 9070xt looking to shape up as expected, but FSR4 only on 9000 is a big fail: I will be looking at the Taichi, Nitro+ and AMD reference models: MSI failing with the Titan and only offering 2xDDR5 memory slots but 1x gen5 and 3x gen4 NVME support (versus their Raider one of each), but besides that and some custom fancy design choices, Raider might be the better buy depending on cooling performance

Yup, ditto. I'm not sure what direction I'm going (go big with the 5090 or go home with a 9070xt or 5070), but right now I'm rocking the MSI Ventus 3x 4070 Super with a return window at BB till February 1st while the dust settles. Worst case scenario, I return it and either rock my laptop (3070ti) till something lands or pick up another holdover card. Basically, AMD said the 9070xt replaces the 7900xt so performance will end up somewhere between a 7900xt and a 7900xtx for raster while making improvements everywhere else. They are ripping a page out of the Nvidia playbook and FSR4 is 9000 series only. They keep kicking themselves in their own tushes over and over again as they continue to yet again lose marketshare to Nvidia since choice is back in play unlike the CryptoPandemic boom where buyers were picking up anything they could get their hands on.

Happy New Year Bro! And yes, when @Mr. Fox not only picked up but KEPT the AM5 (along with @talon and some others who usually stuck to Intel), that was very telling. 🙂 Sorry to hear about the 13900k issues. You, too, can always switch to AM5. Yeah, it does look like the air cooled Suprim line up too for the 4000 series. Now we need @Papusan to dig back further and see the earliest design of this same type to see who originated it while he continues to build out his GPU collection. 🙂 I had problems with my 14900ks / Asrock z790i lightning setup. Didn't matter what I did, TM5 kept crashing even testing pure stock and even with 6400 sticks or down to 4800 Jedec. I was running the newest 7.02 BIOS. On a whim, I went back to 6.02 and all those crashes went away. The MC code updates are useless for me as I dial in my own settings anyhow. Ultra 9 285k shortages are now over. Amazon, Newegg and Provantage have the boxed editions all in stock. Amazon has it for the best price at $603.66