electrosoft

I wouldn't keep an SP98 if it's my hard earned money buying it. I'd want an SP100+ and prefer an SP102+ but as you say DD/Chiller can close the gap on a lot of variance but using that logic I guess even an SP93 is a keeper since you're going to pop the top and chill it down lol.

Ouch, hope this doesn't turn out like your rash of bad luck a year or two ago when you had multiple parts die and we all put distance between ourselves and you so the bad juju didn't transfer. 🙂 With a 14900KS possibly on the horizon, you could have waited but I don't know if I could sit there and stomach a dead system due to a CPU. With the 14900k binning as it has been, pray for an SP100+ chip, expect a sub SP100 that will be worse than your SP117. Things get decent >=SP102+ for 14900k chips. MC ratings have routinely proven to be the most unreliable for 14th gen.

Hopefully it boots in another system. In that scenario, I think I'd prefer the motherboard to be faulty not the CPU as the motherboard still has the MFG warranty on it. At least it wasn't the SP117 golden chip. Good luck!

I've been there before lol... I think that's one reason I've asked to go get a standard 360mm/480mm AIO to come back to reality in the past and watch some of your chips come crashing back down to earth. 🙂 The only way you will truly know how your chip stacks up under completely normal conditions is to run it as such and not outlier setups with chilled water / custom loops and delided/DD. You're a lot closer this time around @tps3443 having not delidded your chip (yet) but you're still running on custom water chilled. Plunk down $100-150 and keep a 360mm/480mm AIO around for a reality check. An added bonus is you can also compile "real world / normal" results to pit against your chilled awesomeness. You would have a whole set of "OOB on a standard AIO" before vs "Chilled / DD" after (and all the progression steps in between). You would show not only good samples of silicon but how they shine in every scenario. Heck, pick up a couple of air coolers too to really flesh out the results! In summary, there's just no way you can downplay the importance of custom / chilled water in any capacity when presenting benchmarking runs. It really is a game changer. I wouldn't mind seeing a return to that look again! I love the grey metal and that black back ground for the MSI logo with the red. They can update and use this design anytime!

This. @tps3443 actually run OCCT, chiller off, water normalized to room temp, auto/default voltage (literally reset the MB) and see what the SP107 nets you.

"Those extreme clocks appear to come at a cost. The alleged Core i9-14900KS processor draws around 410W (as observed by @TechLevelUp), which is an enormous amount of heat to dissipate for a pseudo mainstream processor. In the past, only HEDT chips have flirted with such power use." I mean....sheesh..... When your CPU starts to draw has much as your 4080, 7900xtx and even 4090 in many scenarios.....

Looking forward to your SP117 13900KS results and glad to see you got the new PCB.

Gigabyte is known for slapping on some monster size air coolers on some of their cards. I said it before and I'll say it again. While I do not care for their motherboards, their GPUs are solid. Remove the idiot factor of users not using a sag bracket/GPU standoff when your eyes can clearly see monstrous sag with some of these behemoths, and they are very solid. Agreed. If you have it to spend on LUXURY items (IE, not needed but for personal enjoyment) or can properly budget it without paying any interest, go for it. If you don't, then don't and address your financial priorities/responsibilities. I refuse to pay interest on anything. If I can't afford it, I don't get it. I even buy my cars outright. A house is a different scenario though but even then.... I thought sticking with the KPE 3090 was the smart move if you're not getting a 4090. Outside of some scenarios, patience usually provides the optimal rewards. My dad always said, "the more you feel rushed to buy or especially someone rushes you to buy, the more you wait." and I've always used that approach when purchasing anything and it has only failed me a few times in life (IE, something that is clearly an already killer value and I should have just bought it immediately versus waiting). Funny about the house. We used to own a monster sized two story + basement house w/ a pool and once my daughter grew up and moved, we downsized to a double wide for efficiency and it has provided insane savings across the board versus a house with much less square footage to clean and upkeep and a cozier existence for just the two of us. My wife's parents did the same thing over 20yrs ago. They sold the family home and moved into a very nice double wide. We have discussed maybe meeting in the middle and getting a small rancher but the ease and convenience can't be beat. Be prepared for much higher costs and upkeep across the board.

LOL..... x 1000. 🤣 This is why I like you @tps3443 always easy going and funny with comic relief material for days. 🙂 But in all seriousness, get the 4090. If/When I get a 5090, I will have used this 4090 for over two years and extracted maximum value. If you get a 4090 now with Blackwell looking more and more likely drifting into 2025, you will get well over a year or more from the 4090 with options to spare how you want to address the 5000 series. Looks like sound logic to me! 🤣 Two for the price of one....engage!

I'm shocked....shocked I say! /s It just continues to double down on the "corporations are not your friend" mantra.

Yeah, it seems $1720(MC) and $1800 (NE) is the new "entry level" pricing for 4090s now. Many of those cards were $1600-$1650 on launch. Microcenter and to a degree Best Buy will always show you want the fair MSRP current pricing is in the US. Newegg and Amazon are just garbage with even Newegg getting in on the scalping (aka supply/demand). MSI Suprim Liquid 4090 was $1749.99 at launch and it is now $1939 at MC $2299 at Newegg (shipped by but sold by....odd). Best Buy has many models listed at their original MSRP but they are never in stock. The only ones that come into stock are the pricier models or models that have had their MSRPs increased. Newegg is just scummy with their opportunistic price gouging even shipped and sold from newegg. They continue to grossly inflate their prices even compared to other sellers. I said it before and I'll say it again. Amazon has the worst search engine ever created. They need to overhaul it stat.

Well..... At least you know that plug/unplug rating wasn't a myth...... 😞 But it just continues to show what a trash design the 12VHPWR really is in its current form. Hopefully next gen they make some serious course corrections. AMD was smart to stick with the 2-3x 8-pin connectors. Nothing will truly be in line till we get to consistent stock of $999 cards and $1599 cards. Outside of the FE on the 4090 (which appears from time to time when the dance to the GPU overlords is performed JUST RIGHT), that might be a thing of the past even the lower tier cards as even on Best Buy prices are up on cards that actually come in stock. As for the 4080 Super, I expect the $999 cards to eventually align properly as this initial rush abates.

I'm sure someone out there thought you dropping ~$1300 on a blocked 7900XTX was nutso too thinking a 7800xt should have been enough. 🤣 An unfortunate truth but what remains consistent is choice. You're not forced to buy top tier unless you want to and hopefully you're not pushing yourself into debt over what is a luxury item. We all have our luxury thing(s) we choose to indulge. Some enjoy travel. Some are foodies. Some like fine wines and spirits Some like fancy cars. Some like fancy houses. Some spend crazy money on Golf or sports. Some like fancy clothes and shoes (apparently some spend 10's or evern 100's of thousands on sneakers). And on and on.... ....then there are those of us who like computer hardware. 🤪

I wish....*sigh* I'd even take it with an AMD AM5 socket.

Ah, ok, well then double congrats. 🙂 Before with the 4090 being $1600 and the 4080 being $1200, if you were going to spend $1200, you might as well spend $1600 for the better card at that point with the 4080 being such a bad deal compared to the 3080 and xx80 pricing. Now? With the 4090 basically starting at $1800 and the 4080 Super at $1000, the 4080 Super suddenly makes "sense" (as much as a xx80 class card jumping from $700 to $1200 then back down to $1000 makes sense) and will get you very nice performance at the $1000 price point, is the better buy over the 7900xtx and much cheaper than a 4090. Realistically, calculating inflation and a modest profit bump along with increased costs, the 4080 should have been $899.99 at most along with the 4080 Super. $1200 was ridiculous. $1000 is simply much less ridiculous but still ridiculous.

If someone is looking for a top loaded X170KM-G, brand new Origin models with 11900k and 3080 in qty here: Looks like they have about 19 of them and taking offers.

Congrats! but, er, don't you already have a Suprim X 4090 blocked?

Nice! Glad to see the SP117 finally made it there safe and sound. When you absolutely want the best, price:performance ramifications quickly fades into the distance.

4080 Super Stock in US is definitely near sold out as of 2/5/2924 6:33PM EST: 0 in stock on Newegg. Only PNY 4080 Super in stock at Amazon at MSRP (but with Amazon's wonky search engine a few may not be picked up): Only Gigabyte in stock at Best Buy: In a month this will all be a moot point as everything normalizes as always after that initial buyers rush, but as of now in the US, stock is sparse.

Ditto, the stages and the design for myself (I know you couldn't wait to rip that air cooler off as fast as possible and block it 🙂 ). With the various vBIOS's floating around but overall limitations, the only thing I like about the HOF more are the dual 12vhpwr connectors and that's about it but I wish more cards came with them. Unfortunately having seen many results from the HOF posted over the last year, it seems even those aren't really "binned" and you can still get a dud that won't do 3100+ OC'd or even 2800+ out of box. I started using sag brackets starting with the Aorus Master 3070 as it was the first real "chonker" of a card I encountered. I've used them for most since. I tend to run my GPU power cables from the top of the card vs the bottom as that also gives them a little more support or at worst doesn't add to the pulling down of the card. The fact that entire PCB was twisted in that repair video speaks volumes.

I do/did like having them flashing and testing beefier vBIOS's though that's true. For MBs, even the lower end MSI PRO line can handle a lot of overclocking for 13th and 14th gen and before. I ran their PRO models for 10th and 11th and the chips gave out way before the VRMs. That video does beg the question why he didn't send it in under warranty? And more importantly, why he didn't use an anti-sag bracket of some sort?

Ohhhh, look at all those extra premium stages! MSI over-engineering at its best. 🙂 "As you can imagine PREMIUM and CHEAP get damaged in the same way" -NWR Seriously though, with the way 4090s went, I can see the logic buying a $1600 MSRP model and calling it a day and avoiding over priced HOF, MSI and Asus cards unless you specifically are targeting a particular model for personal reasons.

I agree with this 100%😞 That's one of the reasons I ended my post before with, "I do think for children, some protective measure might need to be put into place more than what are currently active the same as are in place for all the other vices listed above. In regards to children, there is also a large degree of parental accountability too. " But what happens if the parents do not understand the technological jump that comes so intuitively to the current generation of kids?

Or leave free will and choice in place as there are plenty who can just choose not to use P2W, purchase cosmetics or walk away when they want / limit gaming time which is exactly what I do. I talk a lot about WoW and Fallout 76, but I only play 2-3 hours and not everyday. I routinely skip multiple days or in some cases weeks. You don't ban or enact even more laws to fix the "problem" of humans selecting bad vices that are detrimental to their well being. If that was the case, we'd also ban chewing tobacco, caffeine, alcohol, cigarettes, sugar, gambling and more.... I see absolutely nothing wrong with cosmetic items. *I* think they're stupid and a waste of money, but who am I to tell someone else how they want their onscreen avatars to look? Then again, I think blowing wads of cash on fancy cars, overkill sized houses, jewelry, designer shoes, sneakers and clothes is a colossal waste of money but yet again....personal preference. I'm a hardware junkie but that's my personal preference and I've had friends or family (same ones spending gobsmackingly large amounts of money on virtual items and wasteful designer items) wonder why I do. I do draw the line at P2W, but it is what it and has been around in some way, shape or form in gaming since the 90's (Diablo II, EQ, etc...). I even remember people spending real money to get items from other players in AOL's Neverwinter Nights multiplayer in the early 90's. I do think for children, some protective measure might need to be put into place more than what are currently active the same as are in place for all the other vices listed above. In regards to children, there is also a large degree of parental accountability too. That is a good question what metrics were used to derive +23%. 50+ to 70+ is a little vague I'll admit (50+ could be anything greater than 50, same as 70+) maybe with a *touch* of excitement of a new card but I don't think you can fairly classify a 3090 as a 3090ti with an OC. I also think TPUs numbers are a little suspect vs their relative performance chart with the 3090 vs the 3090ti. Hub has the performance of the 3090 vs the 3090ti at ~3% at 1080p up to a max of ~10% at 4k. When I compared my KPE 3090 vs my KPE 3090ti stock for stock, it was about 8% on average across games and synthetics (one of the reasons I sold it in the face of 4090 early testing which just decimated it). Back to @tps3443 and his MSI 4080 Super.... He overclocked his 4080 Super just like he overclocked his 3090. I'm sure he got more out of his 3090 though being a KPE and on chilled water and Ampere being a bit more overclockable than ADA along with his MSI not having a great cooler (one of the lesser ones actually overall). This is also a case of never compare OC A vs non-OC A or especially OC A vs non-OC B and declare them the same (I've had this same argument with @tps3443 before). Use stock and go from there of what the card actually is which is a 3090. The 3090ti also has ~2.4% (!) more shaders, higher base/boost clock (irrelevant to a degree with boosting technologies) and slightly higher clocked memory. In the same vein, while looking at TPU charts for stock to stock comparisons, the 4080 Super has a healthy uplift over the 3090. Quite honestly, more than I expected before clicking. I'm pleasantly surprised. On average (across all their games tested as YMMV based on individual games tested): 4080 Super vs 3090 --------------------- 1080p ~+28% 1440p ~+31% 4k ~+29.4% --------------------- 4080 Super vs 3090ti --------------------- 1080p ~+18.5% 1440p ~+18.9% 4k ~+15% Then you have this from their 3090ti architecture page: ---------------------------- One last note, looking at their results vs the myriad of 4k results on the OCN forums, here and personal testing, I can almost guarantee their hardware hasn't been dialed in and that 4090 is CPU bound in a lot of those results especially at 4k which routinely happens to 4090 owners (present company included) even with dialed in and tuned hardware. Last January, watching my 3080 and 7900xtx peg to 100% in WoW (did you know I play WoW? I don't know if I mentioned it before....) at 4k then watching the 4090 sit at well below 100% utilization on average even at 4k ultra (while still trouncing both) along with Fallout 76 sitting even lower on the 4090 at 4k ultra let me know it was time to upgrade my CPU stat. 🙂 As I mentioned in my other WoW benchmark post, the X3D and 13900KS helped to feed the 4090 even more with boosted results that separated it from the 3080 and 7900XTX even more, but I was still seeing more GPU under utilization more often than not overall at 4k. Probably a few years from now with CPU and memory advances, we'll revisit this topic and you will see the 4090's lead over the 4080 Super and 7900XTX will continue to grow at 4k as it will finally be properly GPU bound in the majority of tests close to across the board just as the X3D and 13900KS/14900K started to make a more sustained dent in the 4090's utilization at 4k. If I was a 1440p gamer, I wouldn't even consider the 4090. I'd pick up a 4080 Super or a 7900XTX when the prices adjust. It usually takes 4k to really separate the 4090 from the pack where it is still sometimes CPU bound.

For those of us a bit more seasoned, Carl Weathers was a childhood and teenage icon from Rocky to Action Jackson and Predator and more. Seeing him in The Mandalorian was just the icing on the cake.