electrosoft

Yeah, if I was blocking a card, the FE would be a non starter for me on many levels. I'd snag a Suprim. I don't think I'd want to block the Astral it's so pretty. 🤣 Yeah, it is going to be a monster for 4k RT games......like WoW you know. 😅 Fallout not so much but still a nice little boost to raster. Problem is 3090->4090 is really a once in a lifetime uplift and spoiled us, but the uplift from the 4090->5090 is smaller than any of the previous 4 generations so there's a reason to grumble there too.

3Dmark leaks for the 5090: https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-5090-3dmark-performance-leaks-out So basically a 20-30% uplift overall in games as predicted and synthetic tests showing varying results Timespy is about a 29% uplift (1440) but Extreme (4k) shows ~27% On the other hand, port royal (RT) shows a bigger improvement of ~34% as does Steel Nomad 4k of a whopping ~42% RT seems to have gotten a bigger boost this time around vs raster a bit.

Props for him basically telling Asus to kick rocks though..... He liked PNY but time and priorities makes total sense and I would love to see him create an AMD Kingpin card. Total shock to the system. At the start, Nvidia was fully an enthusiast company but over each generation Jensen has gone full Steve Jobs and continues to try and take control of everything. Seriously, if they had the production capacity of Apple, I think they would even stop selling to AIBs. But in Nvidia's defense, it isn't like AMD doesn't compete with their own board partners too with their in house reference designs. Definitely a Titan this time around if it appears at all. A 5090ti makes zero sense when a $3k+ Titan makes all the sense in the world on many levels.

I had reflashed my board today to 8.02 after double confirming 7.02 was wonking out on TM5 and Timespy CPU clocks were dipping bad on CPU portion. 8.02 clean 5.9 down the pike with tuned Intel enforced limits. I need it to present its best self when it goes up against the 9800X3D. 🙂 Don't mind the red exclamation mark. I had the fps locked to 120fps for some Fallout testing. ----- Jedec 4800 vs XMP 8200 in Fallout nets about a 10% gain in avg fps and a 15% gain in 1% lows before re-tune (coming up). It will come down to maybe again superior PCB (Suprim) vs 2.1b support and other factors. Also if you're going to block it. I'm not sure what the play is going to be for those who want to block the FE and have to have a block that either provides a built in PCIe slot connector or a way to mount the daughterboard onto the block and still connect to the FE board after you clean up the LM and see if the LM dam gets in the way. I think of the FE as the "thin and light laptop" version of the 5090 desktop cards. Luckily we'll find out in a few days.

Nice! Especially considering the degradation shown in the Suprim cards last time around with the stock thermal paste. This really won't matter much to gamers. Card will work as advertised and probably pull around 500w on average while gaming. ------ 9070 series not dropping till March....grrrrr. https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-confirms-radeon-rx-9070-series-launching-in-march Well, that takes them out of the running for now with me. 7900xtx/4080 Super used / 5070 or 5090......

Asrock 8.02 Bios (January 2025) w/ Intel enforced "limits" still a flaming ball of sun fire to the face.... and this is on a good sample 14900KS: Stock 8.02 w/ Intel limits (notice the 253w limits are in place): After a little enforced tune up for gaming 5.9 all core:

I'm seriously starting to think I can not accept a 15% markup (plus tax) on an already $2k card. I can't see paying $2300+tax= $2452 for a video card again. I say again, because I paid 2585 initially for a KPE 3090ti but it at least came with a 1600 Platinum PSU AND I was able to get them to knock it back down to $2k+ tax. I remember feeling near instant regret within a week or so of having bought that paying that much for a freakin' video card to bench and game on. I was very happy to sell it 3 months later and get back everything I put into it and I'm still using that PSU to this day in my main rig. 🙂 Even an FE is going to be $2132.50 out of my pocket after tax. Ugh. I'm going to have to mull this over seriously while I also see how the 5070 Super and 9070XT perform. I already know a 7900xtx w/o RT on is pretty righteous already in its own right at the right price. My biggest fear is WoW running into issues again like it did before and dragging on for over 10 months and basically being unplayable.

I'm starting to sour a bit on the 5090 if these prices translate to USD in any meaningful capacity. Would if I could, but BB limits you to one per customer. 😞 ------- @Mr. Fox I've been seeing this more and more how on AMD, AM5 SP rating is dictated by cooling which would be a bummer. On X3D, I only really care about the IMC, but still want SP to be at least one valid metric: https://www.overclock.net/posts/29416394/

Have multiple windows open, no restrictions/policies in place helps, verify your accounts and everything are up to date. Right before the drops, log out and log back in so you won't need to re-verify. Use the BB app. It works quicker and cleaner than the website I've found numerous times. I plan on having BB on the phone going along with Newegg, Provantage and B&H open at the ready. I will toss any and all I can get into carts and the first one to check out and confirm (FE, Suprim, Astral) wins! Part of me wants to go to MC along with having BB and a few windows open on my phone but I'm not THAT worried if I don't get one. I rarely, if ever, score one launch day and I'm ok with that. It's only rumors so far, but the 9070XT might drop before the 5090 and that would be fantastic to snag one of those and get it in for some quick testing, but either way you look at it, reviews are going to tell us everything we need. Pros of the FE are the segmented daughter board approach and size. less chance of a PCB crack and if there is, only need to replace the slot connector. Cons are if you want to block it or really push it. Stock for stock, they're all going to run pretty close to each other so any and all will game like a champ.

Yeah, he's not wrong. He also noted going out and snagging a Suprim or Astral for the cooling capacity. I do find myself agreeing with him more often than not. I think those who want to block or push 5090 to the extreme are no longer (if they ever were) a concern to Nvidia. It's clearly evident by how they keep trying to lock it down in every way possible from having full control over power and voltage. 😞 This is a sleek, compact, well engineered card targeting workstation and sff enthusiasts along with gamers and those who want to slap it in and play their games or get their workflows done. The FE is not for you and vice versa. 🙂 Guess we'll find out on review day, but whether it is the FE or the Suprim/Astral, that 575w of heat has to go somewhere and that is right in your case unless you block any of them or get an AIO variant. I run my case completely open now with the back, front and side panels all removed so an AIO model is no longer needed, but my main concern is going to be 575w worth of heat potentially venting into my small computer room. When I ran a 3090ti, I had to have the door open or the room because a sauna relatively quick. The amount of heat that 450w+ under load chunker threw off was insane. I used to sometimes just hold my hand over it and feel that heat pulsing off of it. That's where we are again with the 5090.... Even if the FE cools like an engineering marvel, it will be blowing flames like a dragon from Game of Thrones. Might as well have a "Dracarys" edition on these things.

Jay building ITX w/ the 5090 FE in the SSUPD Meshroom 😧 Same length and height as the 4090 but much smaller width. 4090 = 4.8lbs (2178g) 5090 = 4.0lbs (1816g) Which means that 5090 is DENSE

Updated! 😁

Was never, ever going to buy one anyhow cause TEAM RED!! 🤣 @Raiderman Holding out: @Mr. Fox @Papusan Going with the flow: @electrosoft Definitely buying: @johnksss @jaybee83 @tps3443 @Talon Did I miss anyone? 🤣

Something must have been up with 7.02 BIOS for the Asrock Z790i Lightning when no matter what I did, TM5 was failing even on 6400 sticks (those same sticks running rock solid on the Hero right now at 2133/6400). I went back to 6.02 and the problems disappeared. 8.02 just dropped so as a test I went BACK to 7.02 and TM5 was failing again. Went to 8.02 and now TM5 passes no problem again. Yeah, hopefully the reviews will be a bit better but actual real benchmarks out in the wild aren't exactly showing that 30-35% uplift both in OpenCL and Vulkan along with those game tests but the deluge of reviews next week will provide clarity. Translation: "Hope I score a 5090, but if not I'm good with my 4090....but I really would like to score a 5090!" 🙂 4090 is still a monster....

Hmmmm, @jaybee83 this looks interesting. I didn't even notice this post here, but I'll take a looksy, thanks! Do you have some screen shots of the BIOS post unlock and some results @ecxedxrip?

Same reaction to not having an 18" version of this approach but at least they're trying. If they can aquire mobile dies and fab their own GPUs like this, that opens up possible upgrades. They just need to keep this form factor going forward. ----- 5090 benchmarks looking not spectacular..... ~27% uplift in Vulcan and 14% in OpenCL: https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-5090-appears-in-first-geekbench-opencl-vulkan-leaks ~20% gaming uplift with all the bells and whistles turned off but testing methodology is odd in early review leaks of the 5090D (which isn't game capped): https://videocardz.com/newz/geforce-rtx-5090d-reviewer-says-this-generation-hardware-improvements-arent-massive

He's not wrong on a few points. Same Node. Same tech basically. More cuda cores More voltage More memory It reminds me of Nvidia's 500 series a bit when we considered that hot and power hungry stretching the node. This is also why I said before I feel like a bit of Intel at play here and Raptorlake a touch. ---- I keep going back and forth. Still in that "Go big (5090) or go home (Used 7900xtx/9070XT/5070) mindset this time around. Do I want the absolute best performance? Am I ok with a lesser card? Tune in January 30th for the next exciting episode of, "As the tech turns." I like the uncertainty of what I am going to do in less than two weeks. 🙂 I'm eagerly awaiting the various reviews of the 5070, 5090 and 9070xt.

You mean next generation? 9070XT would be at best a side grade to your 7900XTX but will actually be less powerful if reports are correct. I'm tempted to just snag a used 7900XTX and call it a wrap depending on the 9070XT reviews.

Can you trade it in before launch day so you have a credit waiting? lol, that posting over on OC offering $780 for a Strix 4090.....

Nah, the 5090 is going to come in at 30-35% which is more than enough for me to pull the trigger if I disregard proper fiscal responsibility. If it turns out to be faster, woot! But all reports are leaning towards temper your expectations. That uplift is coming mainly from the cuda core uplift (which is about ~33%) and Nvidia opening up the bus and increasing memory frequency enough to properly feed them / that memory interface. The more I read up on the FE, the more I'm now leaning equally towards all three now with the FE and Suprim tied assuming the Suprim has the superior PCB design. Astral will be good, but I know that price is going to be outlandish. I will pull the trigger on whatever model presents itself and makes it into the basket and checks out. 🤣 4080 Super -> 5080 is an easier read since the bus is the same (256 bit), and you are getting ~5% uplift in CUDA cores but faster memory. It really comes down to the break even point between the cuda cores, memory bus and if the faster GDDR7 is fully being utilized to feed it but we know it is to a degree as the reported uplift is going to be right around 10-11%. All I know is at 4k, the gap between the 5080 and 5090 is going to be monstrous. I am expecting the 4090 to be faster than the 5080 by ~15-20% but the 5080 to still be a slight upgrade over the 4080 Super and using DLSS4 is that's your cup of tea. With AMD being non competitive and Nvidia entertaining a Titan again along with AI (!), I am not expecting a 5090ti variant. Plus the 5090 as-is is already pushing the 600w limit of the connector and sanity even taking into consideration PCIe power delivery. This node is being "Intel"'d a little bit methinks for the 5000 series. I have no idea what Nvidia is going to bring for the 6000 series but this is AMD's chance to do something....

4080 Super to even 4090 is a good boost, so extending that another 33% would make it a monster boost. Which laptop are you using for testing? VDD/VDDQ being limited to 1.1v will definitely keep you capped. Oddly (maybe this is just me), but I tend to focus more on secondary timings for AM5 than primary but both are important. I start with Trefi (due to heat and sensitivity) and work my way through secondary first. why? Dunno. I take things in swaths usually three settings at a time when able unless things work synergistically with each other like a few timings do. You can start with the traditional approach and it still works too for AM5. Before anything, I always keep my timings as loose as possible, pump up SA/SOC and see where the IMCs can go on both Intel and AMD. Find what is stable the most, then shave off voltage where able. Somewhere I end up striking a compromise which is usually a little less on the IMC/memory and tighter timings as a trade off. I am pushing for 2200/6600 but realistically, I know I'm going to end up at 2133/6400 1:1 on the 9800X3D. I was able to get the 14900KS running at 8600, but I settled for 8200 and much better timings with the TG 8200 sticks. As for WoW.... I've started some preliminary testing on the 4070 Super with these Crucial POS sticks as a baseline before I jettison them for the 48GB kit included and eventually the TG kit but Flight runs are basically capped to 99%+ because the 4070 Super just doesn't have the juice to keep up with the 14900KS or 9800X3D at all. I'm going to try some raids next but if I want to run some meaningful tests at 4k Ultra 10 RT on to get some meaningful separation, I'm going to need a 4090 again (no?) or a 5090 (yes?) 🙂 I will hesitantly give the 9800X3D some props because those "hitches" (dips) I would sporadically hit on FP runs on the 7800X3D/7950X3D were gone but I won't really know till I hit it with raids/PvP where they were nails on a chalk board. Make sure to give Orta a whirl out on AK this week to compare 4k Ultra 10 RT on to collect some data.

Looking like as predicted about a ~33% uplift from 4090 to 5090 and ~15% from 4080 to 5080 which would be about ~11-12% for the 4080 Super to the 5080. Rest of the comparisons are normal variants (non supers) vs 5000 series and if that is the case, the uplift, especially the 4070 Super to 5070 is going to be abysmal. If I had not sold my 4090 at this point, I might have held onto it. This will definitely NOT be a generational shock and awe like the 4090 over the 3090 but still 33% is nothing to scoff at..... https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-official-geforce-rtx-50-vs-rtx-40-benchmarks-15-to-33-performance-uplift-without-dlss-multi-frame-generation

Unless SP ranges have changed (which they may have), that's a really decent SP score for a 9950x. That's exactly what enthusiasts are doing ala Intel. They are binning for IMCs first and SP ratings second. That was my objective before even cracking the boxes on both 9800X3D and had the Amazon 9800X3D on order as a backup to test but I see 9800X3D supply is now catching up with demand. As for better fclk on single ccd, whew, tell that too my 7800X3D and 9800X3D! 🙂 My 7950X3D was the best of the three for fclk...but on average you may be right. My 7800X3D before could only do 2067 and could only do 6200 1:1 and my 7950X3D topped out at 2100 and topped out at 6200 1:1 also. My 7600x could do 2200and hit 6400. 6600 wouldn't post. First 9800X3D topped out at 2000 and couldn't do greater than 5200 stable. It was clearly a POS tested on 2x motherboards. It was an SP113 and it was pure garbage. This SP112 9800X3D so far has done 2133/6400 stable on pure auto settings and 2200 stable. Fatal Error on 2233 but 2200 is golden status and 2233 is unicorn status and would require an even more unicorn 6800 1:1 so I have 2133/6400 and I'm gunning for 2200/6600. This crucial memory is garbage for any type of decent OC. There is no headroom anywhere without it borking on TM5. In Crucial's defense, it performs EXACTLY as advertised stock no problem but it is a sub $100 USD kit sent for free eval so it becomes my new baseline testing kit that sits in the drawer. For it's price and placement I wasn't expecting anything meaningful for OC and I was not disappointed. I'm going to give the G.Skill 2x24GB 6400 kit that was part of this combo deal a whirl next but eventually my TG 8200 xtreem sticks will make their way over for some extended testing but I need my main rig now while I dial in the 9800X3D.

woot! Return window till Feb 1st. I can ride this 4070 Super to the wire! (wire = 28th). I'm still banking on my original list but I am always open to being persuaded. 🤣 "congrats...you saw yourself get owned and teabagged at 600fps....aren't you special!" --- Hopefully your mom is on the path to a speedy recover @johnksss

I would LOVE a 12 P-core only CPU for my Z790i lightning.... I watched this a few days ago and while it might be a problem it isn't the reason for the dip/chunk unfortunately. I was hoping he had some insight, but it is just afterburner power monitoring that is causing a problem whereas the problem I experienced on the 7800X3D/7950X3D was all on its own without any software running. 😞 ----- As for testing these Crucials, I know a proper trefi is a no go on them with these insanely cheap heatsinks. as soon as they hit ~60c+, they error out even at 32767. Pity as 65535 knocked off a nice ~5ns-6ns. 😞 I wish these companies made heatsinks like Teamgroup. Those things are monsters!