*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Rage Set]

12 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

 

Welcome to TGP hell that has been a sad reality for high end / DTR laptop users for several years now.

 

Nvidia produces the best cards but they have zero love for people who want something special and so they neuter their cards with overzealous TGP limits instead of just throttling at temps that Nvidia deems too high.

 

Oh, trust me, I knew those limits very well. One of the reasons why I left high end DTR's. If it weren't for @Prema, the DTR I purchased from @Mr. Fox would have been my first and last high end DTR. 

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Sorry if this is obvious, but you can prevent Windows update from updating drivers by a simple Local Policy setting.

 

Speaking of Green Goblin/Ngreedia - how long has it been since the 4090 release? I haven't seen 4090 FE availability in Nvidia store even once. Yet eBay is chock-full of FEs from scalpers. The fact that Nvidia has taken no steps to prevent this (e.g. the subscription service EVGA offered during the mining shortage) puts them in the same category as those scalper lowlifes. 

Hi. I'm fully aware of all this. I usually close all doors and only upgrade needed Windows patches as standalone and with network closed. As well disable everything that can trigger automatic updates of driver, software and firmware. But I wanted to see if Win update had a driver I couldn't find. As you can see from my search... This was expected from Microsoft🤮 And as usually you never find what you want from Redmond retards. But they is able to continue offer an bios upgrade that Asus should have removed from Microsoft servers already in August. But this is still offered machines who already have newer firmware. Can't beat stupidity.  So both Asus and Microsoft is a disgusting and a awful partnership. 

 

[Mr. Fox]

 

On another note... not sure how I missed this a year ago, LOL.

 

[electrosoft]

7 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Sorry if this is obvious, but you can prevent Windows update from updating drivers by a simple Local Policy setting.

 

Speaking of Green Goblin/Ngreedia - how long has it been since the 4090 release? I haven't seen 4090 FE availability in Nvidia store even once. Yet eBay is chock-full of FEs from scalpers. The fact that Nvidia has taken no steps to prevent this (e.g. the subscription service EVGA offered during the mining shortage) puts them in the same category as those scalper lowlifes. 

 

Little bit over a month. ~33 days..... really nowhere deep into the new product cycle.

 

Here is this guy who OBVIOUSLY has the hookup selling on eBay (look at his completed sales and items):

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115577457663?epid=7057049227&hash=item1ae8f40bff:g:8owAAOSwfN1jVxjE&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoAlRUfjXQ0vKLhDa%2B1Xn3e7bInfjBUL5kVMwmdm%2Fb95JXSFGWeTxLGTdxgy8uASmWuBd3kIxX%2FFP1gwy2HmZMKm0qA5merJf52X2fmM739Gbu6jm%2Byse%2F6nB1Tk%2BWVzz1Ytdmt3zFNw3FP3hentpxe%2FTXKP8sdCcjKr9jX2eulGFWOdfkKCDiQ6YeCl%2BM9ixOsvmwvf1r1EH6gU2dAR3IV0%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR4rQw-KPYQ

 

He has been selling 4090 FEs since October 24th to now (~20 days) and while he has sold a large chunk, he still has 4 left. Look at his sold units and they are holding steady at ~2200-2300 each.

 

If this was during the Crypto-Boom, those would have been ALL been gone at a higher price in less than 48hrs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tps3443]

Rebuilding my old parts from last year in to a computer. 
 

Crazy good 11900K Relidded with LM

EVGA Z590 Dark LGA 1200

2x16GB Dominator Platinum 3600C14

Raid-0 M.2 SSD’s

 

I’m partial to this system, because I put a lot of time and money in to it lol. 
 

What’s funny is this 11900K will run 5.3 all cores on just this little $50 dollar AIO. You can’t get one to do that on a huge radiator and a waterchiller even. 

 

 

[Etern4l]

13 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Little bit over a month. ~33 days..... really nowhere deep into the new product cycle.

 

Here is this guy who OBVIOUSLY has the hookup selling on eBay (look at his completed sales and items):

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115577457663?epid=7057049227&hash=item1ae8f40bff:g:8owAAOSwfN1jVxjE&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoAlRUfjXQ0vKLhDa%2B1Xn3e7bInfjBUL5kVMwmdm%2Fb95JXSFGWeTxLGTdxgy8uASmWuBd3kIxX%2FFP1gwy2HmZMKm0qA5merJf52X2fmM739Gbu6jm%2Byse%2F6nB1Tk%2BWVzz1Ytdmt3zFNw3FP3hentpxe%2FTXKP8sdCcjKr9jX2eulGFWOdfkKCDiQ6YeCl%2BM9ixOsvmwvf1r1EH6gU2dAR3IV0%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR4rQw-KPYQ

 

He has been selling 4090 FEs since October 24th to now (~20 days) and while he has sold a large chunk, he still has 4 left. Look at his sold units and they are holding steady at ~2200-2300 each.

 

If this was during the Crypto-Boom, those would have been ALL been gone at a higher price in less than 48hrs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, those people probably know what they are doing. They can count on a sufficient pool of idiots in the general population. The life of my family would have to depend on it for me to pay off one of those pests. Again, Nvidia is complicit in this, as surely they are well aware of the problem, and they are self-evidently happy about it. Before people start making excuses for them: while they are not responsible for the entire distribution network, but they are responsible for their own online store.

[electrosoft]

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Unfortunately, those people probably know what they are doing. They can count on a sufficient pool of idiots in the general population. The life of my family would have to depend on it for me to pay off one of those pests. Again, Nvidia is complicit in this, as surely they are well aware of the problem, and they are self-evidently happy about it. Before people start making excuses for them: while they are not responsible for the entire distribution network, but they are responsible for their own online store.

 

Oh I'm making zero excuses for Nvidia. They are behaving exactly as I would expect a for profit corporation to behave. Their objective is to sell and maximize profits. Until consumers stop buying their products enough to make them compete / adjust it will always be business as usual.

 

Unfortunately Nvidia keeps delivering generation after generation and the 4090 is a beast....an absolute wrecking ball of a GPU. My problem is with the price:performance of the 4080. Hopefully we see the market not embrace it as enthusiastically and at least force Nvidia to adjust their product stack from the 4080 on down especially when AMD launches their 7900 series which looks to curb stomp the 4080 16GB and compete in spots with the 4090.

 

Give it a little time. With so many market conditions changed versus last time, I fully expect Q1 2023 (~Feb) to be a different story. I could be wrong (see: 7900XTX 😁) but I'm just not seeing the same outlier conditions as with the 3000 series.

 

 

 

 

[Papusan]

28 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Oh I'm making zero excuses for Nvidia. They are behaving exactly as I would expect a for profit corporation to behave. Their objective is to sell and maximize profits.

Not all corporation will increase prices on own new products with +71%. Wouldn't it be  nice if Nvidia also added the 71% premium for 4090?😁 Yep, we would see 4090 cards at +2550$ MSRP. Or custom Asus 4090 Strix at 2900$. This without help from the miners. Only own Greed. Even nvidia would see this would look stupid in reviews. And 4090 Ti would come at +3400$ or +3700$ for the better custom cards. Even Nvidia can see own stupidity. Better milk the average gaming Joe. He buy it anyway.

 

And will the notebook OEMs add a 70% premium for next gen gamingbooks? Wouldn't it be nice see an Alienware 17 inch jokebook go up from 4900$ and passing +7000$ ? 😁 Run and buy, LOOL

 

5 must-know GeForce RTX 4080 details: Overpriced by $500

The GeForce RTX 4080's performance went up over the RTX 3080, but its price went up waaaaaaaaay more.

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Oh I'm making zero excuses for Nvidia. They are behaving exactly as I would expect a for profit corporation to behave. Their objective is to sell and maximize profits. Until consumers stop buying their products enough to make them compete / adjust it will always be business as usual.

 

Unfortunately Nvidia keeps delivering generation after generation and the 4090 is a beast....an absolute wrecking ball of a GPU. My problem is with the price:performance of the 4080. Hopefully we see the market not embrace it as enthusiastically and at least force Nvidia to adjust their product stack from the 4080 on down especially when AMD launches their 7900 series which looks to curb stomp the 4080 16GB and compete in spots with the 4090.

 

Give it a little time. With so many market conditions changed versus last time, I fully expect Q1 2023 (~Feb) to be a different story. I could be wrong (see: 7900XTX 😁) but I'm just not seeing the same outlier conditions as with the 3000 series.

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, Ngreedia does what's best for them. The guilty party here are the people purchasing goods from scalpers. If not for them, scalpers would go bust really quickly. Some legislative action and robust enforcement would be in order too:

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/us-lawmakers-announce-bill-to-prohibit-bot-scalping-of-high-demand-goods

 

... however, I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

With no government legislation in place, however, Ukie told Eurogamer it could only recommend that consumers "stay patient... refuse to buy from scalpers and... buy from a trusted retailer" for the time being. 

 

 The Stopping Grinch Bots Act... doesn't sound like serious legislation to be honest.

[Rage Set]

43 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Sure, Ngreedia does what's best for them. The guilty party here are the people purchasing goods from scalpers. If not for them, scalpers would go bust really quickly. Some legislative action and robust enforcement would be in order too:

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/us-lawmakers-announce-bill-to-prohibit-bot-scalping-of-high-demand-goods

 

... however, I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

With no government legislation in place, however, Ukie told Eurogamer it could only recommend that consumers "stay patient... refuse to buy from scalpers and... buy from a trusted retailer" for the time being. 

 

 The Stopping Grinch Bots Act... doesn't sound like serious legislation to be honest.

 

I for one don't want any legislation. I'll be frank, scalpers are scum but you can't really place the blame completely on them. All retailers are essentially, "scalpers". Buy low, sell higher. Some retailers are better than others in this regard, only seeking modest profit. What most retailers have are competitors, which ensures (for the most part) competition on prices, customer service and etc. At the end of the day, you can choose to buy from various places, the same product (or something very similar). 

 

GPU's, like a lot of consumer tech, are luxury products. No consumer really "needs" them but they are nice-to-haves. All of the things I have seen that have been scalped (excluding medication but that is a WHOLE other debate) are not necessary. You are completely correct when you wrote that the guilty party are the people who buy from the scalpers at such high prices. But the let those idiots do that. What do they say about a fool and their dollar?

 

I do not condone the use of bots or scalping in general, but a law(s) about scalping can get out of hand really quick. Who sets the limit on the number of items you can buy before you're considered a scalper? Two items? Three? As @electrosoft noted, the crypto boom and chip shortages are what caused these outrageous prices. Crypto is in its winter and the chip shortages are NO where near as bad as they will have you believe, because demand has fallen due to the recession. Let the scalpers play, as many of them are playing with fire. As the recession worsens, a lot of them are going to be stuck with some high value items they can't sell. 

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Not all corporation will increase prices on own new products with +71%. Wouldn't it be  nice if Nvidia also added the 71% premium for 4090?😁 Yep, we would see 4090 cards at +2550$ MSRP. Or custom Asus 4090 Strix at 2900$. This without help from the miners. Only own Greed. Even nvidia would see this would look stupid in reviews. And 4090 Ti would come at +3400$ or +3700$ for the better custom cards. Even Nvidia can see own stupidity. Better milk the awerage gaming Joe.

 

And will the notebook OEMs add a 70% premium for next gen gamingbooks? Wouldn't it be nice see an Alienware 17 inch jokebook go up from 4900$ and passing +7000$ ? 😁 Run and buy, LOOL

 

5 must-know GeForce RTX 4080 details: Overpriced by $500

The GeForce RTX 4080's performance went up over the RTX 3080, but its price went up waaaaaaaaay more.

 

Yep 100% spot on. Nvidia is unabashedly using pandemic-crypto pricing and seeing who will bite. Early adopters bite hard as always. For the record, I am ok with 4090 pricing relatively speaking and with 4090 taking the performance crown Nvidia won't price down on that top tier unless demand noticeably drops.

 

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

Sure, Ngreedia does what's best for them. The guilty party here are the people purchasing goods from scalpers. If not for them, scalpers would go bust really quickly. Some legislative action and robust enforcement would be in order too:

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/us-lawmakers-announce-bill-to-prohibit-bot-scalping-of-high-demand-goods

 

... however, I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

With no government legislation in place, however, Ukie told Eurogamer it could only recommend that consumers "stay patient... refuse to buy from scalpers and... buy from a trusted retailer" for the time being. 

 

 The Stopping Grinch Bots Act... doesn't sound like serious legislation to be honest.

 

Agreed 100%. Unfortunately it is hard to curb capitalism in that fashion on a micro scale as you are hindering a free market and effectively not letting the market speak for itself but I understand the reasons for wanting it. I wouldn't mind seeing some type of measures implemented as scalpers are another cog in the supply chain inflating prices sometimes there are multiple cogs of scalpers pushing prices even higher (Scalper A buys and resells to Scalper B who lists it even higher) but on a retailer / reseller level. You really do not want the government stepping in.

 

In this scenario, Newegg, Walmart, Amazon, StockX, eBay and more are equally complicit for allowing relisting and scalping on their own retail platforms to collect 3rd party seller fees;  as we witnessed during the Pandemic, Amazon and eBay have the means to disallow certain inflated listings and cap prices on certain items but then again GPUs are a luxury item to a degree It gets real murky real quick.

 

Resellers simply don't care. They collect their profits as a retailer and seller fees from reselling the same products through third party vendors. Win/Win for them too.

 

I'm routinely in conflict between gross profiteering and letting the free market speak freely. More legislation is rarely the answer.

 

 

 

 

[electrosoft]

4 minutes ago, Rage Set said:

 

I for one don't want any legislation. I'll be frank, scalpers are scum but you can't really place the blame completely on them. All retailers are essentially, "scalpers". Buy low, sell higher. Some retailers are better than others in this regard, only seeking modest profit. What most retailers have are competitors, which ensures (for the most part) competition on prices, customer service and etc. At the end of the day, you can choose to buy from various places, the same product (or something very similar). 

 

GPU's, like a lot of consumer tech, are luxury products. No consumer really "needs" them but they are nice-to-haves. All of the things I have seen that have been scalped (excluding medication but that is a WHOLE other debate) are not necessary. You are completely correct when you wrote that the guilty party are the people who buy from the scalpers at such high prices. But the let those idiots do that. What do they say about a fool and their dollar?

 

I do not condone the use of bots or scalping in general, but a law(s) about scalping can get out of hand really quick. Who sets the limit on the number of items you can buy before you're considered a scalper? Two items? Three? As @electrosoft noted, the crypto boom and chip shortages are what caused these outrageous prices. Crypto is in its winter and the chip shortages are NO where near as bad as they will have you believe, because demand has fallen due to the recession. Let the scalpers play, as many of them are playing with fire. As the recession worsens, a lot of them are going to be stuck with some high value items they can't sell. 

 

Exactly, more legislation will not fix the problem. Scalping is as old as time (for us older generation I can remember buying scalped tickets to a few concerts back in the day).

 

Speculation time:  /* I think some of these scalpers are loading up knowing the return window is extended now to Jan 2023 for the Holidays. I would be curious to see how the "restock" goes in mid to late January if a lot of these GPUs bought to scalp do not sell and scalpers return them in droves. */

 

I keep trying to touch on the newness of the 4000 series, initial rush of sales and the market calming down as a part of each *normal* GPU cycle release. A lot of buyers are still feeling the effects of a once in our lifetime scenario (fingers crossed) with the Pandemic, China Tariffs, Crypto-Boom and supply line issues. Nvidia and even AMD would have you believe that product is scarce and BUY NOW or you're doomed is the answer. With inflation and a recession around the corner, demand will curtail even faster than normal. Just looking at eBay availability and pricing lets you know it is nothing like before.

 

For ~33 days, we only had the 4090. Now (for better or worse) we have the 4080 and on the 13th we will have the 7900XTX and 7900XT. More product and buyer choice and opportunity will flatten demand even faster.

 

~Feb 2023 will be a clear checksum of where the market stands.

 

 

 

 

[Etern4l]

Scalping constitutes criminal activity in my mind. It's not really excusable as "capitalism". Scalping occurs/ed in communist states as well. Retailers setting prices above MSRP is one thing, very different from scalping which is characterised by a complete economic redundancy. These are just middle-men adding negative value (increased prices, presumably higher shipping risk, no support, often no return rights). It's also baffling and inconsistent that some forms of scalping are illegal or subject to restrictions, even in the US - notably ticket scalping, while other are not.

 

The definition of scalping would be rather straightforward: unauthorised resale of retail goods as new at a profit. No quotas. It doesn't matter if you steal one candy, or raid a warehouse - you are still a thief, it's just a matter of magnitude and applicable sentencing if found guilty.

 

Now, in theory things should regulate themselves, however, the theory is obviously flawed and thus rather quite extended periods of market disruption occur, which scalping clearly exacerbates for no reason. 

 

One of the benefits of legislation would be that it would force retailers (including Nvidia and their store!) to implement anti-scalping measures. Those wouldn't completely eliminate the activity, but together with the criminalisation, would likely curb it. I don't really see a downside from the consumers' perspective.

 

Of course, were I involved in a little scalping on the side myself then it'd be a different story..

[Talon]

 

I love the beginning of the video where the cable is basically hanging out in order to get it to burn up. 

 

Failure Rate of 0.05 to 0.1%. And then of that small percentage, what percentage is because some people drew the short stick in the thought department. 

 

 

[Rage Set]

17 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Scalping constitutes criminal activity in my mind. It's not really excusable as "capitalism". Scalping occurs/ed in communist states as well. Retailers setting prices above MSRP is one thing, very different from scalping which is characterised by a complete economic redundancy. These are just middle-men adding negative value (increased prices, presumably higher shipping risk, no support, often no return rights). It's also baffling and inconsistent that some forms of scalping are illegal or subject to restrictions, even in the US - notably ticket scalping, while other are not.

 

The definition of scalping would be rather straightforward: the purchase of goods with the intention to resale as new at a profit. No quotas. It doesn't matter if you steal one candy, or raid a warehouse - you are still a thief, it's just a matter of magnitude and applicable sentencing if found guilty.

 

Now, in theory things should regulate themselves, however, the theory is obviously flawed and thus rather quite extended periods of market disruption occur, which scalping clearly exacerbates for no reason. 

 

One of the benefits of legislation would be that it would force retailers (including Nvidia and their store!) to implement anti-scalping measures. Those wouldn't completely eliminate the activity, but together with the criminalisation, would likely curb it. I don't really see a downside from the consumers' perspective.

 

Of course, would I be involved in a little scalping on the side myself then it's a different story..

 

 

During the height of the GPU pricing apocalypse, I purchased multiple 3090's brand new from retailers that were priced well above "MSRP". As anyone that knows me, I build and sell custom rigs but I never charge more for the components from what I paid. Most people here that bought GPUs from me would attest, so would all of my clients. Actually, a good portion of the people during that time paid less than what I originally did. 

 

My point is I was able to buy multiple 3090's when many couldn't get a single GPU. Some would argue that I was or am, a scalper...even though I never sold these GPUs for more than I paid. So your definition of a scalper is different from others. In my defense, I have always purchased multiple high end GPUs since the forever (lol again a lot here would tell you that). Call me stupid, perhaps I am, but I always tried to break even. Never profit on the components, though.

[johnksss]

17 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Little bit over a month. ~33 days..... really nowhere deep into the new product cycle.

 

Here is this guy who OBVIOUSLY has the hookup selling on eBay (look at his completed sales and items):

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115577457663?epid=7057049227&hash=item1ae8f40bff:g:8owAAOSwfN1jVxjE&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoAlRUfjXQ0vKLhDa%2B1Xn3e7bInfjBUL5kVMwmdm%2Fb95JXSFGWeTxLGTdxgy8uASmWuBd3kIxX%2FFP1gwy2HmZMKm0qA5merJf52X2fmM739Gbu6jm%2Byse%2F6nB1Tk%2BWVzz1Ytdmt3zFNw3FP3hentpxe%2FTXKP8sdCcjKr9jX2eulGFWOdfkKCDiQ6YeCl%2BM9ixOsvmwvf1r1EH6gU2dAR3IV0%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR4rQw-KPYQ

 

He has been selling 4090 FEs since October 24th to now (~20 days) and while he has sold a large chunk, he still has 4 left. Look at his sold units and they are holding steady at ~2200-2300 each.

 

If this was during the Crypto-Boom, those would have been ALL been gone at a higher price in less than 48hrs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately he has feedback from 1 person with a score of 3 in the last 6 months of transactions.

So not really sure what hookup you may be referring too as with high ticket items and that many allegedly sold, you would want every 4090 customer to report in. And not one guy with a score of 3. Just my opinion...

 

Side note: Look at all those PS% people reporting in and 1 guy with a 4090....Seems pretty fishy to me.

[Aaron44126]

1 hour ago, Rage Set said:

I for one don't want any legislation.

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Exactly, more legislation will not fix the problem. Scalping is as old as time

52 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Scalping constitutes criminal activity in my mind. It's not really excusable as "capitalism".

 

I've always blamed retailers here.  They should make it easier for people to buy in-demand products even when they don't have stock.

 

Look at Apple.  I know a lot of you don't particularly care for Apple products.  But, when a new iPhone model comes out, it is without a doubt an in-demand hot tech item, and yet you don't see scalpers making money off of it for an extended period of time.  Apple has a proper queuing system in place.  The iPhone is never "out of stock" online, they just keep taking orders and pushing the delivery date back as orders come in.  You might have to wait a bit longer to get one if you don't put your order in right at the start, but at least you can buy one and then just stop worrying about it until it shows up.

 

What's the downside to doing it this way, from a retailer?  They're going to make just as much money as people keep buying their stuff.  And they'll have better customer satisfaction and less frustration.

 

Whereas for GPUs, new game consoles, etc., you just see them as "out of stock" within seconds of going on sale, and for people who aren't paying attention, there is literally no way to buy one except from a scalper.  Enough people are willing to pay the premium price scalpers demand, so the business survives.

 

If GPU retailers would implement queuing / backorders, this then scalping would be either dead, or at least much less profitable.  Enough people would be willing to wait a bit as long as they could actually put an order in with a realistic ETA, rather than deal with scalpers or try to fight to get one right when orders go live or when a restock happens.  If you're worried about a situation like where scalpers or miners would abuse this to buy up hundreds of GPUs at once and clog the queues, just put in a limit of 1 or 2 items per physical mailing address (/ account / credit card / etc.) and keep it in place until demand settles down.

 

(I'm aware of a case where eVGA implemented this, but it was something weird like "sign up to be on our list and we'll email you when its your turn to buy one", and if you missed the email within the time window then tough luck; to the back of the line for you.  Just skip this nonsense and let people put an order in directly at the start.)

[johnksss]

42 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

I love the beginning of the video where the cable is basically hanging out in order to get it to burn up. 

 

Failure Rate of 0.05 to 0.1%. And then of that small percentage, what percentage is because some people drew the short stick in the thought department. 

 

 

Wow! So some users will not be happy about this if the manufacture decides to use this approach to deny a claim.

[tps3443]

11900K Laughs at 240MM AIO cooler. 

 

 

[Talon]

11 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

11900K Laughs at 240MM AIO cooler. 

 

 

 

Still a banger CPU. Especially with 4000 Gear 1. Not sure if you picked up a CPU yet, but I think 13900KF at Amazon was pretty cheap the other day. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i9-13900KF-Desktop-Processor-P-cores/dp/B0BCFM3CJ4/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3UZALL1N1YHSU&keywords=13900kf&qid=1668630132&sprefix=13900kf%2Caps%2C116&sr=8-1&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.4dd97f68-284f-40f5-a6f1-1e5b3de13370

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Talon said:

 

I love the beginning of the video where the cable is basically hanging out in order to get it to burn up. 

 

Failure Rate of 0.05 to 0.1%. And then of that small percentage, what percentage is because some people drew the short stick in the thought department. 

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, johnksss said:

Wow! So some users will not be happy about this if the manufacture decides to use this approach to deny a claim.

RTX 4090 Owner Hits Nvidia With Lawsuit Over Melting 16-pin Connector

 

One consumer filed a lawsuit against Nvidia regarding the melting 16-pin connectors on GeForce RTX 4090 graphics cards.

 

The lawsuit states that Genova is suing Nvidia for unjust enrichment, breach of warranty, fraud, and violations of New York’s General Business Law.

 

The lawsuit, which was filed in a California federal court on Nov. 11, alleges that Nvidia "marketed and sold the RTX 4090 with a defective and dangerous power cable plug and socket, which has rendered consumers' cards inoperable and poses a serious electrical and fire hazard for each and every purchaser." Genova seemingly brings the class action lawsuit on behalf of himself and all purchasers of the GeForce RTX 4090, one of the best graphics cards on the market.

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

I've always blamed retailers here.  They should make it easier for people to buy in-demand products even when they don't have stock.

 

Look at Apple.  I know a lot of you don't particularly care for Apple products.  But, when a new iPhone model comes out, it is without a doubt an in-demand hot tech item, and yet you don't see scalpers making money off of it for an extended period of time.  Apple has a proper queuing system in place.  The iPhone is never "out of stock" online, they just keep taking orders and pushing the delivery date back as orders come in.  You might have to wait a bit longer to get one if you don't put your order in right at the start, but at least you can buy one and then just stop worrying about it until it shows up.

 

What's the downside to doing it this way, from a retailer?  They're going to make just as much money as people keep buying their stuff.  And they'll have better customer satisfaction and less frustration.

 

Whereas for GPUs, new game consoles, etc., you just see them as "out of stock" within seconds of going on sale, and for people who aren't paying attention, there is literally no way to buy one except from a scalper.  Enough people are willing to pay the premium price scalpers demand, so the business survives.

 

If GPU retailers would implement queuing / backorders, this then scalping would be either dead, or at least much less profitable.  Enough people would be willing to wait a bit as long as they could actually put an order in with a realistic ETA, rather than deal with scalpers or try to fight to get one right when orders go live or when a restock happens.  If you're worried about a situation like where scalpers or miners would abuse this to buy up hundreds of GPUs at once and clog the queues, just put in a limit of 1 or 2 items per physical mailing address (/ account / credit card / etc.) and keep it in place until demand settles down.

 

(I'm aware of a case where eVGA implemented this, but it was something weird like "sign up to be on our list and we'll email you when its your turn to buy one", and if you missed the email within the time window then tough luck; to the back of the line for you.  Just skip this nonsense and let people put an order in directly at the start.)

 

Would agree to a large extent, the question is: who or what is going to enforce that. As others noted, if free market is the only regulatory force, then retailers actually don't care about any of this queuing "nonsense", they are happy to sell in bulk to scalpers. Shortages work in their favour and can be used as a justification for bumping up prices, sort of scalping at the source. Going further up, Jensen has the cheek to talk about profit-maximising inventory management strategies to investors. Clearly, he doesn't care about the little retail guy.

 

With Apple, things are different - they are the world's greatest premium retail brand and they do have a strong customer care ethos. Dell, for all their faults, also allows customers to place orders for remote delivery. Amazon took a step in this direction with their invitation system for PS5s. Indeed, the EVGA system turned out to be a joke - got an email 6 months later: "sorry, we are dissolving the queue".

 

Clearly, some sort of consumer protection is required here. I think part of the problem is that these shortages are just concentrated around graphics cards and consoles, so the legislators are not in a rush. If these were major fuel or food shortages, the state would step in right away. I would assume many countries have some legal provisions against war-time profiteering already, BTW let's hope we won't get to find out how they work in practice.

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, johnksss said:

Unfortunately he has feedback from 1 person with a score of 3 in the last 6 months of transactions.

So not really sure what hookup you may be referring too as with high ticket items and that many allegedly sold, you would want every 4090 customer to report in. And not one guy with a score of 3. Just my opinion...

 

Side note: Look at all those PS% people reporting in and 1 guy with a 4090....Seems pretty fishy to me.

Sadly, many people never give feedback. Maybe 1 out of 10 things I sell on fleaBay gets any feedback. I have had people message me to say they are very happy with the item purchased, but even still they give no feedback. I always do as a matter of courtesy, especially when I am happy with the item.

[johnksss]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Sadly, many people never give feedback. Maybe 1 out of 10 things I sell on fleaBay gets any feedback. I have had people message me to say they are very happy with the item purchased, but even still they give no feedback. I always do as a matter of courtesy, especially when I am happy with the item.

True, but he has "sold" way to many for no one to say anything. That's a red flag. And it's easy enough to get it into a state where it looks like you sold more than you actually have.

Example:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=3090+kingpin&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1

Says this guy sold the same card twice, when I'm pretty sure it only sold once in reality.

 

And to also look at the other side of the coin, I sold a 3090 and no feedback receive either, but I never leave feedback first as a seller. To easy for the buyer to then post a negative comment if you don't agree to their demands later.

[johnksss]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

 

RTX 4090 Owner Hits Nvidia With Lawsuit Over Melting 16-pin Connector

 

One consumer filed a lawsuit against Nvidia regarding the melting 16-pin connectors on GeForce RTX 4090 graphics cards.

 

The lawsuit states that Genova is suing Nvidia for unjust enrichment, breach of warranty, fraud, and violations of New York’s General Business Law.

 

The lawsuit, which was filed in a California federal court on Nov. 11, alleges that Nvidia "marketed and sold the RTX 4090 with a defective and dangerous power cable plug and socket, which has rendered consumers' cards inoperable and poses a serious electrical and fire hazard for each and every purchaser." Genova seemingly brings the class action lawsuit on behalf of himself and all purchasers of the GeForce RTX 4090, one of the best graphics cards on the market.

So let me ask you this....Is he right in doing so though?

 

And it's a pretty safe bet to wager that no one is going to fess up and say it was their fault.