*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

I just finished testing the official 2101 release on the white Apex and it seems good so far. Nothing got broken and it does not seem to have impaired performance. Still need to do more testing to confirm, but initial impression is that it is OK. I had to tighten tWR to 12 to avoid TM5 error #10, but it has been the same on other BIOS versions. Left on Auto, tWR is too loose and causes errors.

[Talon]

10 hours ago, tps3443 said:

The most useful thing with mcsp is merely for using it as our own tool to compare with ourselves. Checking mcsp after swapping to a new bios version. Usually a lower mcsp will result in worse ram OC. So, if I have MCSP 90-92 on bios 1501, but suddenly have MCSP 87 or 88 on bios 1901. This will usually make edge of ram OC stability much much harder for me. This has been a pretty reliable tool for so far. 
 

What is your MCSP? Usually high mcsp can run low IMC VDD. Also, your MCSP jumps that much by setting just XMP? It goes up 11 points? Holy cow man. lol. 😂 

 

 

My MC SP shows 89. I ran TestMem5 for an hour and 10 minutes yesterday as well as a lot of BF2042 at 8200 C38 with just 1.225c IMC. Autos everything else. Pretty incredible especially given the auto Asus setting was 1.4v. Completely overkill voltage to the IMC. I'm going to keep dropping it to see how low it can go. I need to test out that other SP105 chips MC a bit now. I didn't really test that chip enough. 

 

Nice OLED! I had the PG32UCDM Packaging at Newegg before I decided to cancel. I have the LG 32" 4K 240/1080p 480Hz OLED on preorder and decided it's best to just wait for what I truly want. Supposed to ship around April 15th. Very excited to get it. The dual mode, OLED at 480Hz is going to be wild for FPS games. 

[Papusan]

This is damn cheap. Not everyday you see such cheap cooling parts. Not much tech you can get for such amount money. Often you only get a slim thin M.2 ssd cooler for this amount money. Thermal Grizzly etc want close to $43 USD for a thin piece of metal. Or 3/4 of the price for a 360mm AIO. 

Thermalright Frozen Edge 360 AIO Cooler Review: Thermal Domination for $60

 

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

This is damn cheap. Not everyday you see such cheap cooling parts. Not much tech you can get for such amount money. Often you only get a slim thin M.2 ssd cooler for this amount money. Thermal Grizzly etc want close to $43 USD for a thin piece of metal. Or 3/4 of the price for a 360mm AIO. 

Thermalright Frozen Edge 360 AIO Cooler Review: Thermal Domination for $60

 

That is a fantastic price. I wonder if it can be purchased for that price or whether it will be jacked up by greedy retailers? Very interesting mounting design. Looks more like an AM5 mount than Intel. It should make getting even pressure on the IHS easier.

 

Edit: for now at least... if it gets more popular the price may go up.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C7Q3F42D/?tag=wccftech0a9-20&th=1

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

That is a fantastic price. I wonder if it can be purchased for that price of whether it will be jacked up by greedy retailers? Very interesting mounting design. Looks more like an AM5 mount than Intel. It should make getting even pressure on the IHS easier.

 

Edit: for now at least... if it gets more popular the price may go up.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C7Q3F42D/?tag=wccftech0a9-20&th=1

 

Even if the AIO go up 10-15% it will still be damn cheap 🙂 Worse with etc $1600 GPU that go up 15%. That would be a increase of $240🙂 Nice with a low bottom price. You won't be ruined with a price hike. 10% on top of $60 is only 6 bucks.

[Mr. Fox]

21 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Even if the AIO go up 10-15% it will still be damn cheap 🙂 Worse with etc $1600 GPU that go up 15%. That would be a increase of $240🙂 Nice with a low bottom price. You won't be ruined with a price hike. 10% on top of $60 is only 6 bucks.

So, it looks like they are taking a unified hardware mounting approach. If what I read is correct, you could have a Thermalright air cooler, remove it while leaving the brackets installed on the motherboard and simply bolt on the AIO pump in place of the air cooler without having to change the brackets on the motherboard. That's brilliant if it works well. That would be especially nice on an open test bench scenario. So far everything I have purchased from Thermalright has been decent quality. CPU mount frames, liquid metal, thermal paste, fans and other things... no complaints.

[Raiderman]

Weren't we just talking about usps being broken? Happened again to me. Apparently they enjoy going in circles 🤣

[tps3443]

I’m building my son’s first PC with him this weekend. Below will be his rig. 
 

Lian Li 011 Evo black

Intel 12900KS CPU

Asrock Z790 RS Pro WiFi  LGA1700

2x16GB Gskill DDR5 6400

Asus Strix OC V2 RTX3060 12GB

NZXT Z73 360MM AIO cooler

Evga 1300P+ Platinum PSU

Viewsonic XG271QG G-Sync 1440P 165Hz IPS monitor. 
 

I think it’s a good system even for today. Much better than my first PC. When I was a kid I did not have my own dad who could get me some PC parts like my son does. 😁

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Raiderman said:

Weren't we just talking about usps being broken? Happened again to me. Apparently they enjoy going in circles 🤣

Something is really goofed up with logistics in general. It definitely seems worse with USPS, but I have been experiencing crappy service from FedEx and UPS as well. That chiller that I ordered that we chatted about got delivered by FedEx to some address in Indianapolis, Indiana.  So, now I have to request and wait for a refund from the seller. It wasn't the seller's fault. FedEx got their wires crossed somehow. What's really frustrating about it is the order originated in Chino, CA and had a stop in Phoenix (on day #2) on the way to Indy. 

[tps3443]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Something is really goofed up with logistics in general. It definitely seems worse with USPS, but I have been experiencing crappy service from FedEx and UPS as well. That chiller that I ordered that we chatted about got delivered by FedEx to some address in Indianapolis, Indiana.  So, now I have to request and wait for a refund from the seller. It wasn't the seller's fault. FedEx got their wires crossed somehow.

I ordered (4) new tires for my wife’s car and FedEx dropped them off at some random address in the City right next to me. The seller (Big Retail Tire company) was trying to launch an investigation before they’d send me new tires out or even refund me. After a week of waiting with no tires , I filed a dispute with PayPal. PayPal closed the dispute and said “Item delivered closed in favor of seller” I had to launch a new dispute with PayPal. And put in caps lock. “PLEASE LOOK AT THE ZIP CODE AND CITY OF WHERE THESE TIRES WERE DELIVERED” 🤣 (Pretty dumb I know) then PayPal was like OHHH! They were not delivered to you. And finally I got my money back right away. I bought some new tires from someone else so all is well now. But it was an ordeal, and why in the world FedEx dropped these tires off in another city was beyond me. I’m not sure.  They can mess up pretty bad sometimes though. And even after that it was like PayPal wasn’t even checking my dispute. They literally looked at “Delivered” and went in favor of seller. When it clearly said on the tracking it was delivered in a different city/address than my address, and signed by a first name of someone I didn’t even know. Someone got some free tires! And it wasn’t me.

[Mr. Fox]

25 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I ordered (4) new tires for my wife’s car and FedEx dropped them off at some random address in the City right next to me. The seller (Big Retail Tire company) was trying to launch an investigation before they’d send me new tires out or even refund me. After a week of waiting with no tires , I filed a dispute with PayPal. PayPal closed the dispute and said “Item delivered closed in favor of seller” I had to launch a new dispute with PayPal. And put in caps lock. “PLEASE LOOK AT THE ZIP CODE AND CITY OF WHERE THESE TIRES WERE DELIVERED” 🤣 (Pretty dumb I know) then PayPal was like OHHH! They were not delivered to you. And finally I got my money back right away. I bought some new tires from someone else so all is well now. But it was an ordeal, and why in the world FedEx dropped these tires off in another city was beyond me. I’m not sure.  They can mess up pretty bad sometimes though. And even after that it was like PayPal wasn’t even checking my dispute. They literally looked at “Delivered” and went in favor of seller. When it clearly said on the tracking it was delivered in a different city/address than my address, and signed by a first name of someone I didn’t even know. Someone got some free tires! And it wasn’t me.

I've had that happen a couple of times as well. I bought something on NewEgg that was from a marketplace seller. It wasn't sold and shipped by NewEgg. If memory serves me correctly it was an NVMe but it was a couple of years ago and I don't remember now what it was. The seller used FedEx and it was delivered and signed for by "Dave at Front Desk" (or something similar) in Mesa, AZ. That's about 15 or 20 miles away and a different city. I had to do the same thing. They were saying it was delivered and not looking at the destination being wrong. I had to actually speak to a person to get them to pull their head out of their butt and pay attention.

1. My name is not "Dave" (or whatever the name was)
2. My residence does not have a "front desk" 
3. My city is not Mesa. 

 

[electrosoft]

8 hours ago, Reciever said:

So @Hiew ran an idea by me last night and unfortunately the proposition does seem quite attractive given the price points things are right now.

 

Heres the scenario I have been entertaining, Selling the RTX 3090 for about 800(+/-) and buying the 7900 XTX. The XTX looks to be a healthy bump in performance over the 3090 and in some titles actually quite substantial. Would only need to spend about 150 or so tops for the upgrade.

 

Before anyone points it out I really dont care about Ray Tracing or DLSS. Raster performance is more important to me.

 

If you don't care about RT of DLSS (as indicated above), you will absolutely get a nice performance bump from decent to near 4090 levels depending on program.

 

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

I’m building my son’s first PC with him this weekend. Below will be his rig. 
 

Lian Li 011 Evo black

Intel 12900KS CPU

Asrock Z790 RS Pro WiFi  LGA1700

2x16GB Gskill DDR5 6400

Asus Strix OC V2 RTX3060 12GB

NZXT Z73 360MM AIO cooler

Evga 1300P+ Platinum PSU

Viewsonic XG271QG G-Sync 1440P 165Hz IPS monitor. 
 

I think it’s a good system even for today. Much better than my first PC. When I was a kid I did not have my own dad who could get me some PC parts like my son does. 😁

 

Such a solid first build! He's going to love it.

 

 

[Raiderman]

9 hours ago, Reciever said:

So @Hiew ran an idea by me last night and unfortunately the proposition does seem quite attractive given the price points things are right now.

 

Heres the scenario I have been entertaining, Selling the RTX 3090 for about 800(+/-) and buying the 7900 XTX. The XTX looks to be a healthy bump in performance over the 3090 and in some titles actually quite substantial. Would only need to spend about 150 or so tops for the upgrade.

 

Before anyone points it out I really dont care about Ray Tracing or DLSS. Raster performance is more important to me.

It's a great card @Reciever, you won't be disappointed.

[Mr. Fox]

Looks like Dufus drew the same conclusions most of us have. The 14900KS is merely a scummy scam cash grab designed to trick overclockers into wasting money on an "upgrade" to what will ultimately prove to be an inferior product more often than it proves to be a micro-upgrade. If you are extra-lucky you might get something better, but probably will go the other direction.

 

[Tenoroon]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Something is really goofed up with logistics in general. It definitely seems worse with USPS, but I have been experiencing crappy service from FedEx and UPS as well. That chiller that I ordered that we chatted about got delivered by FedEx to some address in Indianapolis, Indiana.  So, now I have to request and wait for a refund from the seller. It wasn't the seller's fault. FedEx got their wires crossed somehow. What's really frustrating about it is the order originated in Chino, CA and had a stop in Phoenix (on day #2) on the way to Indy. 

 

4 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I ordered (4) new tires for my wife’s car and FedEx dropped them off at some random address in the City right next to me. The seller (Big Retail Tire company) was trying to launch an investigation before they’d send me new tires out or even refund me. After a week of waiting with no tires , I filed a dispute with PayPal. PayPal closed the dispute and said “Item delivered closed in favor of seller” I had to launch a new dispute with PayPal. And put in caps lock. “PLEASE LOOK AT THE ZIP CODE AND CITY OF WHERE THESE TIRES WERE DELIVERED” 🤣 (Pretty dumb I know) then PayPal was like OHHH! They were not delivered to you. And finally I got my money back right away. I bought some new tires from someone else so all is well now. But it was an ordeal, and why in the world FedEx dropped these tires off in another city was beyond me. I’m not sure.  They can mess up pretty bad sometimes though. And even after that it was like PayPal wasn’t even checking my dispute. They literally looked at “Delivered” and went in favor of seller. When it clearly said on the tracking it was delivered in a different city/address than my address, and signed by a first name of someone I didn’t even know. Someone got some free tires! And it wasn’t me.

This happened with my monitor and I was pissed. Won't rant too much here, but I HAVE NEVER, I REPEAT, NEVER! have received a package on time by FedEx. My monitor was a day late and was shipped to a house a few miles away... Luckily I contacted MSI and they said the guy who got it called them (a good lad, I got his number and he was flexible and understanding). I'm from TN, and I've started to think the reason Memphis has the poor reputation it does is because of a magical "crappyness" aura that the FedEx headquarters emanate, lol.

[tps3443]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

If you don't care about RT of DLSS (as indicated above), you will absolutely get a nice performance bump from decent to near 4090 levels depending on program.

 

 

Such a solid first build! He's going to love it.

 

 

I think so too. 😁 GPU was just delivered. Probably the nicest 3060 I’ve ever seen. Really big cooler for such a little baby GPU haha. It has 12GB VRAM so it’s not useless either. I wanted him to be able to play games smoothly with 30-100FPS VS. Play games with 1-100FPS. I was not trusting the 8GB route, which was exactly why I passed on the standard 4060. Especially with how poorly optimized newly launched titles are.

 

 

 

[electrosoft]

7 hours ago, Raiderman said:

It's a great card @Reciever, you won't be disappointed.

 

Since I permanently have a 7900xtx in the house now "for my daughter" (wink wink) I've been having fun with it. I think I'm going to swap out her B660M/12400/DDR4 for a B650M/7600X/DDR5 setup to really make her setup House AMD.

 

 

[Rage Set]

How the mighty have fallen. This news story is bad for the legacy of EVGA if true. I guess if all the good employees left, the shell company doesn't care.

 

 

[Raiderman]

Has anyone tried these thermal paste replacer pads? I've seen a few reviews, and they claim slightly better results over liquid metal?? They are reusable too!

Also spotted this little swivel for GPU waterblocks.

 

[electrosoft]

16 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Looks like Dufus drew the same conclusions most of us have. The 14900KS is merely a scummy scam cash grab designed to trick overclockers into wasting money on an "upgrade" to what will ultimately prove to be an inferior product more often than it proves to be a micro-upgrade. If you are extra-lucky you might get something better, but probably will go the other direction.

 

 

 

lol, he's not wrong. 13900k, 13900ks, 14900k, 14900ks has just been a protracted two cycle (with four releases) of basically the same CPU just binned differently. Plenty of hyping his own products too including his "custom" memory modules like they're magical.

 

With such variances, Silicon Lottery could have made a major killing with these.

 

 

15 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I think so too. 😁 GPU was just delivered. Probably the nicest 3060 I’ve ever seen. Really big cooler for such a little baby GPU haha. It has 12GB VRAM so it’s not useless either. I wanted him to be able to play games smoothly with 30-100FPS VS. Play games with 1-100FPS. I was not trusting the 8GB route, which was exactly why I passed on the standard 4060. Especially with how poorly optimized newly launched titles are.

 

 

 

 

I always liked the look of Ampere Strix cards. Whenever I'm working on the wife's system, I always admire the 3080 Strix in there and remember fondly paying $1100 for it during the height of the GPU shortages....good times. 🙂

 

2 hours ago, Rage Set said:

How the mighty have fallen. This news story is bad for the legacy of EVGA if true. I guess if all the good employees left, the shell company doesn't care.

 

 

 

It is really painful to see what was once the standard bearer for quality and professionalism just slowly circle the drain as they've just become really a PSU and peripherals company and have nerfed all their warranties and abandoned everything that made them great including GPUs, MBs and even cases and outlier peripherals.

 

 

[Papusan]

18 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Looks like Dufus drew the same conclusions most of us have. The 14900K(S) is merely a scummy scam cash grab designed to trick overclockers consumers into wasting money on an "upgrade" to what will ultimately prove to be an inferior product more often than it proves to be a micro-upgrade. If you are extra-lucky you might get something better, but probably will go the other direction.

 

 

 

Here's more disgusting. When newer is newer and not better. 

 

Processor

The Core i9-14900HX is a rebrand of last year's Core i9-13900HX and so any performance differences between them are minor at best. In fact, the Core i9-13980HX in last year's m18 R1 would consistently outperform our i9-14900HX by a few percentage points in multi-threaded workloads.

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Alienware-m18-R2-laptop-review-Jumping-from-Core-i9-13980HX-to-i9-14900HX.812957.0.html

 

4 hours ago, Rage Set said:

How the mighty have fallen. This news story is bad for the legacy of EVGA if true. I guess if all the good employees left, the shell company doesn't care.

 

 

 

Sad to see... But I warned about buy anything from EVGA now long time ago. And I was spot on. The compani won't be better than the employees/bosses they have.

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Raiderman said:

Has anyone tried these thermal paste replacer pads? I've seen a few reviews, and they claim slightly better results over liquid metal?? They are reusable too!

I've tried using them and they are not good. Neither are the graphite pads. You can expect your CPU load temps to increase substantially using that. They're not even as good as using a sheet of 0.1mm indium, which isn't very good. Better off  using paste or liquid metal. 

1 hour ago, Raiderman said:

Also spotted this little swivel for GPU waterblocks.

Those fittings are nice, but they will not fit well on every system. It depends on how your lines are route. With both fittings being the same height you might encounter contact interference. If I have both lines attached on the same side of the GPU, I have to use a spacer on the inlet port to avoid having the compression fittings and tubing routed the way I want the because the outlet port gets in the way of the inlet. If you have the CPU block and GPU block mounted in series and the lines are oriented at 90° angles to one another the lines would collide, but then the elbow is pointed toward your motherboard.

  

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

With such variances, Silicon Lottery could have made a major killing with these.

Indeed, they certainly could have. Although, they might end up having too few samples that anyone would be willing to buy as things are looking now with how few good 14900KS samples exist. If I had to take a wild guess based on anecdotal bits and pieces, my guess would be that maybe 1 out of 20 would be good enough silicon not to RMA. I'm not sure why that is. Maybe their binning process is flawed and they pulled the wrong samples for KS branding.

  

30 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Sad to see... But I warned about buy anything from EVGA now long time ago. And I was spot on. The compani won't be better than the employees/bosses they have.

That's the main reason I sold my Z690 Dark. The product itself was amazing, like everything else always was... and with unrivaled support and warranty service. But I could see the writing on the wall. When they stopped making GPUs they were doomed for destruction. If you aren't making money, you can't afford to provide good product support and you can't do world-leading product development. You can only provide service if you can afford to pay the employees that provide it.

[Papusan]

44 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

That's the main reason I sold my Z690 Dark. The product itself was amazing, like everything else always was... and with unrivaled support and warranty service. But I could see the writing on the wall. When they stopped making GPUs they were doomed for destruction. If you aren't making money, you can't afford to provide good product support and you can't do world-leading product development. You can only provide service if you can afford to pay the employees that provide it.

I put it here. My post from July last year.... There is more into this with EVGA than just that Nvidia become too greedy for them. The Nvidia move was just an camouflage for their major change in their business.

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Indeed, they certainly could have. Although, they might end up having too few samples that anyone would be willing to buy as things are looking now with how few good 14900KS samples exist. If I had to take a wild guess based on anecdotal bits and pieces, my guess would be that maybe 1 out of 20 would be good enough silicon not to RMA. I'm not sure why that is. Maybe their binning process is flawed and they pulled the wrong samples for KS branding.

 

 

Yeah I'm over Intel atm but I am looking forward to 15th gen. I just have to tamp down this urge to try APO with WoW. I'm waiting for some results somewhere (anywhere?) from a WoW player.

 

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

That's the main reason I sold my Z690 Dark. The product itself was amazing, like everything else always was... and with unrivaled support and warranty service. But I could see the writing on the wall. When they stopped making GPUs they were doomed for destruction. If you aren't making money, you can't afford to provide good product support and you can't do world-leading product development. You can only provide service if you can afford to pay the employees that provide it.

 

Looking at my inventory, I have 2x EVGA PSUs (850w P2, 1600w P2), 2x AIO (360 CLC, 280CLC) and 2x of their keyboards which the wife and I still love. I've tested numerous keyboards since and I keep going back to it.

 

A few of their mice, but they are in storage as they are ok but not the best for gaming. I switched to a Razer Pro and it is by far the best I've used so far.

 

But all the GPUs and Motherboards of yesteryear? Gone but certainly not forgotten. 😞

 

MSI is my tier 1 now followed by Asus and maybe Asrock again considering the last three boards I used from them (1x Intel, 2x AMD) have all been rock solid and stellar.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

  

31 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Yeah I'm over Intel atm but I am looking forward to 15th gen. I just have to tamp down this urge to try APO with WoW. I'm waiting for some results somewhere (anywhere?) from a WoW player.

 

Intel is the only option. I don't like saying never, but I cannot imagine any scenario that I would consider purchasing another AMD product again. I've never been satisifed with anything I have owned that they made and I don't like the company in general. I've given them plenty of opportunities to change my mind and that has never happened. It would be foolish for me to think that they ever could at this point. I have friends and family that like their AMD products and I am happy they do. I'm not really open to the prospect of dealing with the disappointment all over again. What we are seeing with the crappy 14th Gen silicon samples is a symptom of the world we live in. Everything sucks now no matter what name is on the label. Crappy is the new normal for almost everything, including lots of people.